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spursncowboys
08-01-2010, 09:43 AM
With Recovery Slowing, the Jobs Outlook Dims


ECONOMY OUTLOOK EMPLOYMENT UNEMPLOYMENT JOBS CURRENCY CONSUMER SENTIMENT NYT NEW YORK TIMES CNBC CNBC.COM

The New York Times
| 31 Jul 2010 | 09:58 AM ET

There is no more disputing it: the economic recovery in the United States has indeed slowed.


The nation’s economy has been growing for a year, with few new jobs to show for it. Now, with the government reporting a growth rate of just 2.4 percent in the second quarter and federal stimulus measures fading, the jobs outlook appears even more discouraging.


“Given how weak the labor market is, how long we’ve been without real growth, the rest of this year is probably still going to feel like a recession,” said Prajakta Bhide, a research analyst for the United States economy at Roubini Global Economics. “It’s still positive growth — rather than contraction — but it’s going to be very, very protracted.”

A Commerce Department report on Friday showed that economic growth slipped sharply (http://www.cnbc.com/id/38487342/) in the latest quarter from a much brisker pace earlier, an annual rate of 5 percent at the end of 2009 and 3.7 percent in the first quarter of 2010. Consumer spending, however, was weaker than initially indicated earlier in the recovery.

Many economists are forecasting a further slowdown in the second half of the year, perhaps to an annual rate as low as 1.5 percent. That is largely because businesses have refilled the stockroom shelves that were whittled down during the financial crisis, and there will not be much need for additional orders.

Additionally, the fiscal stimulus measures that have propped up growth are expiring. Proposals for individual programs like another expansion of unemployment benefits have been beaten back each time they have come up in Congress.

“We need 2.5 percent growth just to keep the unemployment rate where it is,” said Christina Romer, chairwoman of the president’s Council of Economic Advisers. “If you want to get it down quickly, you need substantially stronger growth than that. That’s what I’ve been saying for the last several quarters, and that’s why I’ve been hoping that we’ll please pass the jobs measures just sitting on the floor of Congress.”
The approaching midterm elections, however, may harden the political standoff after Congress returns from its August recess. As a result, pressure will probably increase on the Federal Reserve to use its available tools to prevent a double-dip recession. Recent reports from Fed policy makers suggest the central bank has become increasingly worried about where the economy is headed.

American businesses, if not American households, seem to be hanging on.
The crucial driver of growth in the second quarter was business investment in such things as office buildings and equipment and software. Such activity rocketed up at an annual rate of 17 percent in the second quarter, compared with a 7.8 percent increase in the first. The equipment and software category alone grew at an annual rate of 21.9 percent, the fastest pace in 12 years.

“We’re seeing a sort of handover from consumer spending to capital spending,” said John Ryding, chief economist at RDQ Economics. “The consumer also looks to have saved more than we thought before, which means they’re perhaps further on the road to financial adjustment than we thought they were previously.”

Consumer spending, which is usually a leading indicator of a recovery and which accounts for most economic activity in the United States, has been leveling off. It grew at an annual rate of 1.6 percent in the second quarter after a 1.9 percent rate in the previous quarter.

Personal savings was estimated at 6.2 percent of disposable income last quarter, significantly higher than the 4 percent that had been estimated earlier.

A separate report released on Friday by the University of Michigan and Thomson Reuters showed that consumer confidence tumbled in July.
The fact that businesses seem to be investing more in equipment than in hiring may be a reason consumers have been reluctant, or perhaps unable, to pick up the pace of their spending.


“There are limits on the degree to which you can substitute capital for labor,” Mr. Ryding said. “But you can understand that businesses don’t have to pay health care on equipment and software, and these get better tax treatment than you get for hiring people. If you can get away with upgrading capital spending and deferring hiring for a while, that makes economic sense, especially in this uncertain policy environment.”


The government painted a portrait of a deeper recession when it also released revised data for the last three years on Friday. Over all, 2009 and 2008 were slightly worse than previously reported, but the first quarter of 2010 was better.


As the global economy recovers, America’s trade has picked up. But imports once again grew faster than exports. Imports grew at an annual rate of 28.8 percent, the biggest jump in a quarter-century, compared with a 10.3 percent gain in exports.


Government spending shot up more than many anticipated, at an annual growth rate of 4.4 percent after a decline of 1.6 percent in the first quarter. Public spending was broad-based, with even state and local expenditures increasing for the first time in a year. Local governments may have taken advantage of warmer weather to use more of their federal stimulus money.


“You could see this in the monthly number for state and local construction spending,” said Nigel Gault, chief United States economist at IHS Global Insight. “Construction slows down during winter months, so stimulus may not have been doing as much earlier this year.”


Other policy initiatives, like the homebuyer’s tax credit, also appear to have lifted demand. Consumers rushing to take advantage of the credit as it was nearing its expiration pushed up spending on housing and related property investments by an annual pace of 27.9 percent in the second quarter. Such spending had fallen 12.3 percent the previous period.
“This will almost certainly reverse hard next quarter,” Jay Feldman, director of economics at Credit Suisse Securities, wrote in a note to clients.

This story originally appeared in the The New York Times
URL: http://www.cnbc.com/id/38500535/

SnakeBoy
08-01-2010, 11:10 AM
Personal savings was estimated at 6.2 percent of disposable income last quarter, significantly higher than the 4 percent that had been estimated earlier.

Hopefully this trend continues.

boutons_deux
08-01-2010, 11:25 AM
The classic pause seen in economic recoveries? my ass

Even the cheerleaders at the Fed are now worried about long term deflation, just like Japan's Lost Decade, just as Krugman predicted.

The stimulus was too small by $1T or $2T.

The Repugs and conservatives are primarily responsible for scare-mongering about deficits, when bigger deficit was the best attempt at getting people back to work, over-consuming all materialistic shit, and paying taxes to keep govt infrastructure running.

The Repugs will say the prolongation of the Banksters' Great Depression proves all Keynesian counter-cyclical govt spending fails, when in fact it their scare-monger about mainly Repug-caused deficits kept the stimulus too small to counter the depth and width of the BGD.

Fuck conservatives, fuck Repugs, what have they EVER done for America?

Nbadan
08-01-2010, 12:22 PM
Slow job growth can suck if your looking for a job, but if you have a job this can mean lower prices on goods and services - something Americans have come to enjoy - saving money!

spursncowboys
08-01-2010, 12:27 PM
Slow job growth can suck if your looking for a job, but if you have a job this can mean lower prices on goods and services - something Americans have come to enjoy - saving money!
If you mean because illegals are doing jobs cheaper than the going rate, or companies outsourcing and passing the savings on to the consumer, then yeah. However I doubt a lib could be that logical. Somewhere in all your arguments is the word "fair" and "care".
With the illegal argument. If they do get rid of illegals screwing up our market, sure initially prices will go up to pay for the labor cost. However it will level out and companies will start to use prices for marketing. Price wars ensue which always benefits the consumer.

boutons_deux
08-01-2010, 12:45 PM
"illegals are doing jobs cheaper than the going rate"

You Lie, it's a conservative/racist/xenophobic myth.

How many whites and blacks and Hispanic citizens chase seasonal jobs up and down the country, and gonna pick fruit & veg & nuts in FL, TX, CA, while not getting OT rate for 8+ hours/day, with no benefits?

Companies that outsource overseas won't pass the savings to buyers unless they are forced to. They mostly use it to overpay mgmt obscenely and mgmt's buddies on the board who approve the compensation, or buy back their stock, or use the cash to gamble on Wall St where returns can be a lot higher than building and selling real stuff.

Nbadan
08-01-2010, 12:49 PM
Yep, remove undocumented workers from the equation and you get higher prices....companies aren't going to be forced to compete when they all have to pay more for labor....

spursncowboys
08-01-2010, 12:53 PM
Yep, remove undocumented workers from the equation and you get higher prices....companies aren't going to be forced to compete when they all have to pay more for labor....
So instead pay illegals an amount under the federal minimum wage act and keep the illegals underground like slaves?

Nbadan
08-01-2010, 01:02 PM
So instead pay illegals an amount under the federal minimum wage act and keep the illegals underground like slaves?

No, offer them opportunities to come work here as documented workers...this reduces the temptation for people getting caught hiring undocumented workers and getting heavily fined..

spursncowboys
08-01-2010, 01:04 PM
"illegals are doing jobs cheaper than the going rate"

You Lie, it's a conservative/racist/xenophobic myth.

How many whites and blacks and Hispanic citizens chase seasonal jobs up and down the country, and gonna pick fruit & veg & nuts in FL, TX, CA, while not getting OT rate for 8+ hours/day, with no benefits? My personal experience. When I worked at Bill Millers as a kid I got paid alot more than the other fast food co. It was because they had a high turnover from washing dishes being a shitty job. Now when I worked at Alamo Cafe and Chili's their dishwashers were illegal. They were that because they didn't pay anything. The only people they could keep on the job were illegals.

When I was doing finishing/trimming and carpentry the illegals were rounded up and paid maybe $50 a day whereas if I went to the labor-ready places, I got a $74-100 a day.
As far as the fruit picking, I doubt it is $8. However in a free market, they have the freedom to change the price to adjust to their workforce. I read that the going rate for seasonal fruit pickers is $22/hr.
It seems you liberals want to create a slavery type class for your needs.

Wild Cobra
08-01-2010, 01:19 PM
The stimulus was too small by $1T or $2T.

No way...

The stimulus did not good, and making more money will just make the flames larger as these trillions are needlessly burned.

We need to spend less money and let business have confidence in the future. So few people who are in the position of starting or growing companies that will create more jobs are afraid to. Democrats scare the shit out of productive people because of wealth redistribution.

The democrats have recently claimed that they will extend the Bush tax cuts. the way i see it, they haven't made it law yet, so I say bullshit. they will use it as a rally cry for reelection, then not do so and find some excuse. We will not recover until after business either know without doubt the future of tax structures, or until they figure out how to endure the pain of the 2011 tax increases.

We have mote than enough revenue. Congress just spends too much.

Wild Cobra
08-01-2010, 01:23 PM
Slow job growth can suck if your looking for a job, but if you have a job this can mean lower prices on goods and services - something Americans have come to enjoy - saving money!
I have notice the local Fred Meyer store, owned by Kroger, is now only 10-30% more expensive than WalMart in the grocery section, rather than 30% to 50% more like it has been.

I still only shop there for a few items. When I spend $50+, I drive the extra distance to Wood Village to go to WalMart.

Wild Cobra
08-01-2010, 01:29 PM
"illegals are doing jobs cheaper than the going rate"

You Lie, it's a conservative/racist/xenophobic myth.

How many whites and blacks and Hispanic citizens chase seasonal jobs up and down the country, and gonna pick fruit & veg & nuts in FL, TX, CA, while not getting OT rate for 8+ hours/day, with no benefits?

There isn't seasonal work in the cities, which has most the illegals. they are doing cintract work, working fast food, and so many other jobs. My ex works for a cleaning service. A few years ago, she used to make $15 per hour. As the "Maid Brigade" and other services, that are Hispanic operated, undercut prices, Her boss isn't doing as well. Almost faltered, and my ex is making $13 per hour now. Less hours too.

I don't think anyone has a problem with seasonal workers, who work the fields. I think they changed the jobs, but I know that used to be legal. it should still be if it isn't.

Wild Cobra
08-01-2010, 01:31 PM
Yep, remove undocumented workers from the equation and you get higher prices....companies aren't going to be forced to compete when they all have to pay more for labor....
Not by much. Definitely better to pay slightly more, than having more able bodied Americans not working and sucking the government teat.

Wild Cobra
08-01-2010, 01:33 PM
No, offer them opportunities to come work here as documented workers...this reduces the temptation for people getting caught hiring undocumented workers and getting heavily fined..
No.

Not until we put able-bodied workers on welfare to work first. If there is still a need for labor, then an employer can ask for and sponsor immigrant workers.

Wild Cobra
08-01-2010, 01:34 PM
It seems you liberals want to create a slavery type class for your needs.
That is what it boils down too, but the lemmings don't understand that it is what their masters intend.

boutons_deux
08-01-2010, 01:50 PM
" WALLACE: Congressman — a number of top economists say what we need is more economic stimulus.

BOEHNER: Well, I don’t need to see GDP numbers or to listen to economists. All I need to do is listen to the American people, because they’ve been asking the question now for 18 months, “where are the jobs?”"

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/08/01/boehner-anti-intellectualism/

Did anti-intellectual bonehead Boner offer any suggestions for getting people back to work?

Do Repugs, conservatives, right-wing assholes here have any suggestions for getting back to work? To filling the hole of 8M jobs lost in the Banskters' Great Depression?

I mean, suggestions other than cut taxes on the rich and corps, because high taxes are what's causing job loss.

Reduce the deficit by cutting spending will create jobs? Don't be a chickenshit, be specific on the 100s of $Bs of annual cuts needed to reduce the deficit to zero. Repugs absolutely refuse to suggest specific cuts in spending.

boutons_deux
08-01-2010, 02:52 PM
"seasonal fruit pickers is $22/hr. "

link? a annual rate of $40K for harvesting produce? GMAFB

"Congress just spends too much."

list specific spending cuts that will make a dent in the deficit.

Wild Cobra
08-01-2010, 02:56 PM
"seasonal fruit pickers is $22/hr. "

link? a annual rate of $40K for harvesting produce? GMAFB

"Congress just spends too much."

list specific spending cuts that will make a dent in the deficit.
Idiot...

you think they work anywhere near full time with seasonal work?

Nbadan
08-01-2010, 03:00 PM
Not by much. Definitely better to pay slightly more, than having more able bodied Americans not working and sucking the government teat.

If the GOP had its way there would be indentured servitude....

....there are tons of poor people in rural areas, why don't they pick their own cotton?

spursncowboys
08-01-2010, 03:33 PM
If the GOP had its way there would be indentured servitude....

....there are tons of poor people in rural areas, why don't they pick their own cotton?
idiot you just explained how you are for a lower class of people in our country to do our unwanted work, and never being able to advance-so as to keep prices down.

boutons_deux
08-01-2010, 03:58 PM
"you think they work anywhere near full time with seasonal work"

no, I didn't say that, you did. Bitch, be slapped by your own straw man.

Still waiting for proof that agricultural/seasonal, unskilled manual workers make $22/hour, which is a RATE OF $40K+/year.

boutons_deux
08-01-2010, 03:58 PM
..........

Wild Cobra
08-01-2010, 04:12 PM
"you think they work anywhere near full time with seasonal work"

no, I didn't say that, you did. Bitch, be slapped by your own straw man.

Still waiting for proof that agricultural/seasonal, unskilled manual workers make $22/hour, which is a RATE OF $40K+/year.
Picking crops is good money if you are a hard dedicated worker. Before the child labor laws, my mother user to pick berries, and take us kids with her. We worked and made our own money. We didn't work all day like the migrants did, but we made good money for the time we spent. As kids, we ate the berries, played, and were slow pickers. We still felt like we were rich as kids. I think it was $0.12 A Flat we got paid. I probably picked 8 flats an hour, or about $1.00 per hour. That was great money for the 60's for no skills. I was making that, and the immigrants who were serious pickes must have made $8.00 or more per hour then.

Sad...

Because of child labor laws, women cannot take their kids picking any longer. They cannot afford to work other types of jobs because then they have to pay a babysitter.

boutons_deux
08-01-2010, 07:45 PM
"have to pay a babysitter"

but Repugs and conservatives are against/want to cut subsidized day care, cuts which prevent mothers from working.

CosmicCowboy
08-01-2010, 08:14 PM
I think I just need to put Boutons on ignore.

It's not even worth responding to the crap he vomits up on command.

hopefully when he finally graduates from high school he figures out that it's not the governments job to take care of him.

boutons_deux
08-01-2010, 10:21 PM
CC, GFY dickless S.

Wild Cobra
08-02-2010, 12:19 PM
I think I just need to put Boutons on ignore.

It's not even worth responding to the crap he vomits up on command.

hopefully when he finally graduates from high school he figures out that it's not the governments job to take care of him.
No kidding.

Boutons... Acronym for Blowing often, unified terrorists & openly nasty socialists.

Anyone else have one?

Wild Cobra
08-02-2010, 12:20 PM
"have to pay a babysitter"

but Repugs and conservatives are against/want to cut subsidized day care, cuts which prevent mothers from working.
Don't you get it?

No more subsidies. we don't have a revenue problem, we have a spending problem.

Blake
08-02-2010, 12:41 PM
No kidding.

Boutons... Acronym for Blowing often, unified terrorists & openly nasty socialists.

Anyone else have one?

Why I Loathe Demonrats: 'Cause Obama Busts Republican Asses

Wild Cobra
08-02-2010, 01:36 PM
Why I Loathe Demonrats: 'Cause Obama Busts Republican Asses
I used to play an internet game called "Acrophobia." I was just average at it, but it was a blast at times.

Ever play it?

It was gone for a while. I just did a search, and it's now AcroChallenge (http://www.acrochallenge.com/). I haven't downloaded or played the new one, and have no plans to until I know it's malware/virus free. If it's the same on I played a few years ago, it's great.

boutons_deux
08-02-2010, 01:52 PM
"we don't have a revenue problem"

local/state/federal ALL have revenue problems from reduced property taxes, reduced sales/income taxes, all due to the Repug-enabled Banksters' Great Depression.

.... which leads to a state/local SPENDING problem since they can't keep their systems running and employees paid.

Wild Cobra
08-02-2010, 01:58 PM
"we don't have a revenue problem"

local/state/federal ALL have revenue problems from reduced property taxes, reduced sales/income taxes, all due to the Repug-enabled Banksters' Great Depression.

.... which leads to a state/local SPENDING problem since they can't keep their systems running and employees paid.
And we wouldn't have a revenue problem if states planned for a surplus in good times. Would we?

Blake
08-02-2010, 02:15 PM
I used to play an internet game called "Acrophobia." I was just average at it, but it was a blast at times.

Ever play it?

It was gone for a while. I just did a search, and it's now AcroChallenge (http://www.acrochallenge.com/). I haven't downloaded or played the new one, and have no plans to until I know it's malware/virus free. If it's the same on I played a few years ago, it's great.

N.ot O.nce P.layed E.ver

boutons_deux
08-02-2010, 02:20 PM
states and municipalities have by law "rainy day funds" (since they can't print money) that Wall St is trying to figure out how to get its slimey hands on to plunder them the way Wall St plunders pension funds, 401s, investors, etc.

The big mistake of the property tax authorities was to assume that their rise in tax revenues due to bubbly rise in housing/commercial property values was long-lasting, dependable.

They spent according to their bubble tax revenues instead of spending to their historical, de-bubbled trajectory of revenues.

But, living in debt (and enslaved to the financiers and capitalists) and forced positive thinking is The American Way. America is a total fraud, is fucked, and unfuckable.

CosmicCowboy
08-02-2010, 02:25 PM
:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

Boutons, you must lead a horrible and desperate life.

boutons_deux
08-02-2010, 02:30 PM
CC, I've corrected "unfucable" to "unfuckable", thanks for pointing that out.

Wild Cobra
08-02-2010, 02:31 PM
CC, I've corrected "unfucable" to "unfuckable", thanks for pointing that out.
Do women find you unfuckable?

CosmicCowboy
08-02-2010, 02:34 PM
Do women find you unfuckable?

:lol He's clearly a bitter, lonely virgin.

Wild Cobra
08-02-2010, 03:17 PM
:lol He's clearly a bitter, lonely virgin.
I would think so, by some of his remarks. afterall, I think a woman would have to be pretty low to appreciate him.