Women: let your men stray

[phyzik]

http://www.cnn.com/2010/LIVING/08/03/negotiated.infidelity/index.html?hpt=C2

New York (CNN) -- Could letting your man sleep with another woman help your relationship?

Author and former mistress Holly Hill thinks so.

"One of the main things that I have learned is that a woman that negotiates infidelity with her partner is far more powerful than a woman who is sitting home wondering why he's late from the office Christmas party," she says.

"It's better to walk the dog on a leash than let it escape through an unseen hole in the back fence."

Hill's memoir, "Sugarbabe" details her yearlong adventure with a series of so-called "sugar daddies." The book sold 24,000 copies in her native Australia, according to her publisher, and has just been released in the United States. Holly Hill is a pen name.

"I thought it was men that would like the book," she says, "But in fact it's women, because what it says to women is that if your man cheats on you, he still loves you, and he's probably running about average."

Allowing their men to stray is a concept that's difficult for most women to contemplate.

But Hill says that if a woman takes the time to truly examine her relationship and considers Mother Nature's unerring spell on men's libidos, she might realize that letting her boyfriend or spouse know she's OK with him having sex elsewhere is a logical way to prevent him from doing it in secret.

"I think that cheating men are normal," says Hill. "Monogamous men are heroes. Monogamy does have a place in relationships, but not on the long-term. Men are hard-wired to betray women on the long-term."

But psychology professor Lawrence Josephs believes it is more personality type than gender that indicates whether a person might cheat.

"People who are higher in narcissim -- whether they are male or female -- are more likely to cheat. People who feel entitled to it, people who have what's called avoidant attachment style where they tend to have more impersonal sex," are more prone to straying, he said.

The professor also said people who experience lower levels of empathy or guilt tend to engage in more infidelity.

Hill says, that of course it's every woman's right to refuse to have sex when she's not in the mood or has a headache. However, expecting men to cope on their own with no outlet whatsoever is shortsighted and cruel, says Hill.

The author, who holds a psychology degree from the University of Southern Queensland, says her experience as a "sugarbabe" taught her some valuable lessons about what drives men to seek sex outside marriage.

Finding herself in financial dire straits after her married boyfriend unexpectedly dumped her four years ago (he had persuaded her to quit her job and enjoy his financial support as part of "the mistress plan"), she decided to get creative about her employment options.

Hill, who was 39 at the time, posted an ad online announcing her search for a sugar daddy, someone who would pay her $1,000 a week in exchange for her company, cooking, conversation, massages and, when they desired it, sex. She says the ad attracted 11,000 responses.

At the time, Hill says she saw a distinct difference between what she was doing and prostitution.

"I thought that because I was a 24/7 exclusive mistress that I wasn't part of the world's oldest profession, but with hindsight I was, because what I was doing ... I was charging men for services, part of which included sex," says Hill.

However, she adds, any married woman who no longer loves her husband but continues to have sex with him to retain the comforts of being married could also be considered part of that oldest profession.

Most of Hill's "daddies" were wealthy married men who surprisingly often opted for conversation, she says. While entertaining with red wine and exotic food platters she'd prepare in her Sydney apartment, Hill learned that most of these men sought her attention because they simply weren't getting enough sex from their wives.

"Men need to get their rocks off," says Hill. "If a woman crosses her legs for any length of time and doesn't arrange some sort of alternative for her man, he is going to cheat on her."

By alternatives, Hill is referring to her idea of "negotiated infidelity." That shouldn't be confused with an open relationship, which to Hill "has no rules." Nor does it imply that it's necessary that a wife allow her husband to hop into bed with whomever he chooses -- unless of course she's OK with that. Hill says negotiated infidelity could mean hubby makes a trip to the local strip club for the occasional lap dance or updates his porn collection.

And in no way does it have to be a one-way street.

"Ideally the woman will want to stray as well," says Hill. "Some won't want to because they're at home taking care of toddlers. But the woman definitely needs to negotiate infidelity as well, especially because that will generate her man's competitive nature. The more lovers the woman has, the more attraction the man will have for his partner."

But how do women -- and men for that matter -- get past those ingrained feelings of possessiveness and jealousy?

"Women need to remember the difference between why women and men have sex," she says. "Women tend to value intimacy. For men it's often the thrill of the chase, or the quick sex with a stranger. Men don't even have to know their lovers' names! It's often just a cheap thrill and has nothing to do with us as a loving girlfriend or wife. Once we understand that, it's much easier to let him go off."

But Josephs doesn't think understanding will overcome jealousy.

"I think what's universal is that no one likes sharing partners -- whether you're male or female. I think jealousy is a kind of universal emotion," the professor said.

Holly Hill says her boyfriend, Phil Dean, can have sex with other women but he cannot spend the night with them.Her sugarbabe days now over, Hill lets her boyfriend of two years, Phil Dean "go off" on occasion. Hill says she believes negotiating their infidelity has been instrumental in keeping their relationship strong and committed, not to mention electric.

"[Dean] can have sex with the Australian women's basketball team for all I care, but he can't spoon any of them," says Hill. "For me, spooning is cheating."

Dean, 45, who works for an insurance company in Sydney, jokes that he hasn't slept with any members of the Australian basketball team. But he is a big supporter of negotiated infidelity.

"I was actually very relieved when Holly and I started to speak about it [at the beginning of the relationship]," he says. "She asked me if I'd be happy in a monogamous long-term relationship and I had to say 'no'."

And while Dean says he doesn't get jealous when Holly spends time with another lover, some of his male friends are certainly jealous of his relationship's flexibility.

"Some think it couldn't get any better than what I have," says Dean. "Some, however, don't want to embrace the concept. They feel protective of their partner and don't want to share."

Central to the idea of negotiated infidelity, Hill says, is each couple figuring out what their boundaries are. While she admits she shed a few tears at the start of her relationship as she and Dean tested their comfort levels with different arrangements (Dean also says it has definitely been a learning process), they're now very clear about what they will and won't allow.

While Dean has the green light to have sex with other women, he's not permitted to stay overnight. He also can't take his lovers away for romantic weekends. And Hill says she'll have an all-out hissy fit if he spoons another woman.

Hill, on the other hand, is allowed to spoon her lovers because Dean has no problem with that and recognizes that intimacy is an important part of sex for women. Hill isn't, however, allowed to wear any of the outfits Dean has bought for her when she meets up with a lover.

But how can Hill be sure Dean isn't spooning if she isn't there?

"If you're talking about sexual needs honestly with your partner, you get better at communicating with each other, you get better with honesty," says Hill. "Everything is out in the open and you have an honest relationship according to your man's biology, not according to some outdated social norms." (Hill is working on another book that will address why women also like to venture outside their marriages for sex.)

Those rules sound artificial to Marcella Weiner, adjunct professor of Marymount Manhattan College and author of "Repairing Your Marriage After His Affair: A Woman's Guide to Hope and Healing."

"Unless you're totally dead inside of you and have no heart or no brains or no anything -- when you're with another person, you're with another person," said Weiner. "It's not just here's my penis, here's your vagina that's it. It is for some people -- but that's a mechanical kind of thing."

While it may not be for everyone, Hill is optimistic that if more people embraced the idea of negotiated infidelity, cheating could become a thing of the past, leading to fewer divorces and truly happy lifelong relationships.

"We just have to be honest about the way nature created us, and we have to work with nature instead of working against her. This isn't rocket science. This is what every man already knows and I think what every woman deep down already knows."

[MiamiHeat]

nope

my woman is mine. i am territorial, and a woman becomes more beautiful to me when we are in love and happy together, mine and only mine. that in itself is a turn on for me.

for that, monogamy isn't hard to me. as long as woman does whatever I want in the bedroom, i am happy with 1 woman.


don't agree with article

[MannyIsGod]

nope

my woman is mine. I am territorial, and a woman becomes more beautiful to me when we are in love and happy together, mine and only mine. That in itself is a turn on for me.

For that, monogamy isn't hard to me. as long as woman does whatever i want in the bedroom, i am happy with 1 woman.


Don't agree with article

lol

[CosmicCowboy]

:lol

Even Manny and I agree on that one.

[Muser]

nope

my woman is mine. i am territorial, and a woman becomes more beautiful to me when we are in love and happy together, mine and only mine. that in itself is a turn on for me.

for that, monogamy isn't hard to me. as long as woman does whatever I want in the bedroom, i am happy with 1 woman.


don't agree with article

Did ducks hack your account or something.

[hater]

nope

my woman is mine. i am territorial, and a woman becomes more beautiful to me when we are in love and happy together, mine and only mine. that in itself is a turn on for me.

for that, monogamy isn't hard to me. as long as woman does whatever I want in the bedroom, i am happy with 1 woman.


don't agree with article

you sound pretty insecure. A therapist would help

[DarkReign]

Noticeable lack of responses.

[Frenzy]

Free!!

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o139/jfd12/000_0005a.jpg

[CosmicCowboy]

http://caution.files.wordpress.com/2008/10/holly3.jpg

I might hit it, but not for a $1000 a week.

[SpursWoman]

I would rather be single than married to someone who didn't think I was enough or didn't have enough self-control to either take a cold shower or rub one out if I wasn't feeling well.

But I'm not one to withhold the cookie either. :fro

[koriwhat]

i don't like to share.

[tp2021]

But I'm not one to withhold the cookie either. :fro

That's probably the point

[SourCandy]

Free!!

http://i119.photobucket.com/albums/o139/jfd12/000_0005a.jpg
:lmao I pictured that actually.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

That's a pretty ballsy (or would that be ovariesly?) gamble. There's a reason Burger King doesn't give out coupons for Big Macs.

[The Gemini Method]

I have a good friend who is allowed one free indiscretion per calendar year and he's been married for almost 5 years. The couple seems to be happier, but again, appearances could be misleading. I'm not sure how I'd take having the negotiated ability to go after strange, but knowing my ability to wheel-n-deal, it wouldn't turn out to be a good thing to manage.

*Free is subjective of course...so it may not work for all relationships.

[benefactor]

Here's a thought...don't get in serious relationships or get married.

[badfish22]

nope

my woman is mine. i am territorial, and a woman becomes more beautiful to me when we are in love and happy together, mine and only mine. that in itself is a turn on for me.

for that, monogamy isn't hard to me. as long as woman does whatever I want in the bedroom, i am happy with 1 woman.


don't agree with article


Ok... so last night I went out to my cousin's birthday party. I went alone because she said she had a headache (period was on), so I told her just rest at home. Well, during this party, I just accidentally met and had normal conversation with this cute little latina chick. She got all into me....and I was a little drunk.... well, next thing I know, in my drunken state, we are in a bedroom in my cousin's house and we're in the middle of some "activities".....this girl was kinky and wanted anal....I was drunk, I don't know what came over me but I did it....well... we were in the middle of this as my significant other catches me... she actually got dressed and came to the party to be with me and apparently someone told her where I went. It was not my cousin, though.

Anyway, I don't know what to do. She is very upset at me, and I understand I messed up. It must be a graphic mental image burned into her brain....

I don't know what I can do to make her forgive me, I really messed up this time. She means everything to me and I want to fix this.

can anyone help? advice welcome, please.

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147754

[Bender]

"Ideally the woman will want to stray as well," says Hill..

"The more lovers the woman has, the more attraction the man will have for his partner."
so the ideal marriage or "partners" is where the man wants to stray and the woman is happy for him, and the wife wants to stray and the man is happy about it... and the more the woman sleeps around the more the man likes it.

gmafb

[symple19]

Here's a thought...don't get in serious relationships or get married.

exactamundo

[SA210]

Trash

[pawe]

Awesome! Id be more than willing to let my wife go out on a saturday, get drunk and get smashed by a stranger...just no spooning though.

[Soul_Patch]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147754

lol, thats what i was thinking too when i read his reply...

[bdictjames]

What is wrong with women these days?

[lebomb]

I wonder if she would still be fine with the sleeping around if her boyfriend brought her a gift wrapped STD??? :perv:

[Trainwreck2100]

Noticeable lack of responses.

you mean from the vagina brigade?

[bigzak25]

I guarantee her boyfriend is spooning other women like crazy behind her back.

Not necessarily because he wants to, but because he's not supposed to. :lol

[MiamiHeat]

http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147754

:lmao

[mrsmaalox]

I guarantee her boyfriend is spooning other women like crazy behind her back.

Not necessarily because he wants to, but because he's not supposed to. :lol

:lmao he doesn't even care about screwing them anymore!

[The Gemini Method]

I sent my girl this article...and she wasn't having it lol.

[phyzik]

I sent my girl this article...and she wasn't having it lol.

Awesome! :lol

Did she at least laugh about it or did she go into raging vagina mode because you suggested it?

[tlongII]

It's an excellent idea. Clearly the concept of marriage is flawed. Well over 50% of marriages fail.

[MiamiHeat]

It's an excellent idea. Clearly the concept of marriage is flawed. Well over 50% of marriages fail.

That has a lot more due to with current cultural beliefs and flaws than it does with marriage.

Some people get married for the wrong reasons, since there is no shame or penalty anymore for divorce. Marry for money, etc.

Some people aren't mature enough yet to get married, and rush into something. Then the times get tough, and they bail. It used to be that people worked through their problems... nowadays it's just accepted to quit and "find someone else"...

Loving relationships, even great ones with two mutually respectful partners, still go through tough times and hardships. You have to be dedicated to each other and to the ideal of marriage. Once you choose someone, you don't allow the thought of "divorce" to enter your head unless there is an obvious circumstance (domestic abuse, etc).....

We have many freedoms right now in 2010 as Americans, but just remember - not all people are ready to exercise those freedoms. Many people fuck up, and that's why you have divorce rates so high..... which in turn creates single-parent households and dysfunctional / unprepared children for the real world.

Not marriage's fault.

[MannyIsGod]

Marriage is an idea how could it have "fault"? I don't see how you refuted anything Tlong said.

[The Gemini Method]

Awesome! :lol

Did she at least laugh about it or did she go into raging vagina mode because you suggested it?

She's alot like me in a sense that we are both really, really laid back and can enjoy sharing things. She laughed and said since (me) I'm a big believer in having an equal relationship, she gets something in return for my frolicking. I'm still waiting to see what it is, but overall she was laughing about it and actually heard about the article from one of her girlfriends.

[MiamiHeat]

Marriage is an idea how could it have "fault"? I don't see how you refuted anything Tlong said.

well, sucks for you I guess

[MiamiHeat]

She's alot like me in a sense that we are both really, really laid back and can enjoy sharing things. She laughed and said since (me) I'm a big believer in having an equal relationship, she gets something in return for my frolicking. I'm still waiting to see what it is, but overall she was laughing about it and actually heard about the article from one of her girlfriends.

:lol I wonder how you will feel when she says she wants to fuck around too. How long until the mental image of another man bending her over and fucking her... scars your brain?

Maybe you will meet him one day.

He will walk up to you and initiate casual conversation.

"damn, she sure knows how to suck cock. Does she make you spank her and call her a bitch too?"

[SpursWoman]

Well over 50% of marriages fail.




Yeah, but with all the Elizabeth Taylors of the world out there skewing the numbers I wouldn't rely too heavily on that statistic. :lol



I really don't care what other people do in their own marriages ... I just know that's just not for me.

Sorry, honey. :lol

[The Gemini Method]

:lol I wonder how you will feel when she says she wants to fuck around too. How long until the mental image of another man bending her over and fucking her... scars your brain?

Maybe you will meet him one day.

He will walk up to you and initiate casual conversation.

"damn, she sure knows how to suck cock. Does she make you spank her and call her a bitch too?"

All of this is hypothetical, Miami, not reality. I wouldn't cheat on her because I don't believe its worthwhile if I chose to be in a relationship. If she feels the need to venture out--that's on her. I can't force her to be in a relationship and be faithful. Just like you can't gurantee that your wife will always be true to you. The point is; not to get too worked up over the sanctity of a relationship. If you can't converse about the possibility of falling out of love with your significant other then you're going to become oblivious and fail to see the signs of someone wandering.

[HighLowLobForBig-50]

I have a good friend who is allowed one free indiscretion per calendar year and he's been married for almost 5 years. The couple seems to be happier, but again, appearances could be misleading. I'm not sure how I'd take having the negotiated ability to go after strange, but knowing my ability to wheel-n-deal, it wouldn't turn out to be a good thing to manage.

*Free is subjective of course...so it may not work for all relationships.

is your friends name AK-47 ?

[The Gemini Method]

is your friends name AK-47 ?

Naw, but his girl is Russian/Costa Rican...

[Spurminator]

I don't think the idea of marriage is flawed. It's the sexual monogamy as a socially-mandated requirement of marriage that leads to more problems than it should.

[MiamiHeat]

I don't think the idea of marriage is flawed. It's the sexual monogamy as a socially-mandated requirement of marriage that leads to more problems than it should.

While you are correct that monogamy is reinforced by society, it's not the reason for it's widespread existence. Monogamy is instinctual, but it may be temporary for some people.... the question is - how long can it last? Many people have no problem being monogamous for a few years, but then they want to stray.


Almost all of the 5 great apes are territorial when it comes to mating. Heck, you can even say that almost all mammals are the same way.

1) The male wants to ensure his seed is passed on. He won't allow any other male to mate with the female. This is hard-wired in our biology for reproduction. We want our genes to spread, not another male's genes.

2) The female wants a secure, safe environment to raise the off-spring. She wants the male to stick around and provide food and safety, etc.. Having other females around are a direct risk to her and her children. It creates competition for food and protection, and it can affect the children's chances of survival.

The problem is, many mammals have multiple partners in their lifetimes, including the great apes. The male lion is territorial and keeps all the females to himself, but he still mates with more than one female. Chimpanzee's are the same way, you have a Male Alpha chimp who controls the troop and the mating within the troop. He doesn't share his females, but he has multiple females to mate with. In this way, females are usually always familiar with only one male partner, but the males are usually mating with more than one female.


So there is an argument that men have a biological drive in them to fuck around....

but the body is primitive and we can't allow our bodies to control our behavior. It's the other way around. The mind controls the body, and so you CAN be happy in a monogamous relationship for the rest of your life, but it takes a certain level of development, goals, and maturity.


damn, thats a lot of words hurr durrr

[CuckingFunt]

I don't disagree with the assertion, but it's not for everyone. And it requires that both parties have a similar definition of commitment/monogamy/relationship/etc. and come to an agreement about what's going to work for them. Which takes a lot of work. Certainly more than just saying, "Okay, honey, I don't mind if you fuck other women." Trust, honesty, and confidence all have to be there.

[z0sa]

A well-written article, but the book/author covered is just terrible and lacks mostly any degree of realism. Like the man/dog analogy. For the majority of men, the problem simply isn't our leash or the hole under the fence (a groundless assumption implying "apparent, uncontrollable male nature" as the fault). It's far, far deeper than that, and it seems the only positive aspect of accepting such an idea is that the woman cheated on avoids the obvious pain of *gasp* perhaps taking at least a bit of blame for the relationship failing.

The book's premise is just a sad and laughable concept, really. Most men (and women) in committed relationships don't cheat unless they lose their inner connection with their significant other.

[DarkReign]

nvm

[Sisk]

I'm just surprised there hasn't been a cold pizza reference tbh

[silverblk mystix]

Interesting concept....maybe some of the Pollyanna Poppers crew would subscribe to that type of arrangement.

I look at every relationship....and actually feel this way about everything;

EVERYTHING is temporary.

Marriage is temporary...one of the two people will either leave,cheat,move on....or in the best case scenario will stay many,many years and then die. Sooner or later it will end.
So I just act like I am in a temporary relationship because it is true.

I do my best in my marriage and don't worry about what my wife is going to do or might do or if she is going to be faithful or not...I just never try to swallow the illusion that this is permanent or that people should or should not cheat,etc...it is a waste of time.

Been married 8 years...have only been with the wife and really enjoyed her 100%--as opposed to some guys who have had affairs...and probably given 35% to the mistress....25% to the wife...10% to someone or something else...

I just chose to give all the 100% to her...

She appears to have been faithful but I can only speak about me ...every person has their choices and their conscience to deal with...should she decide to find someone else to give her time to or her love to or her affections to...then I will have to decide which road to take then...again this is all temporary and while I am here i will actually be here 100%.

I was single for many,many years and while I was single...I was actually there too-100%.
and enjoyed being single.

It is all temporary and NO-ONE can name one thing that isn't.

[tlongII]

Men are biologically predisposed to have more than one sexual partner. Women may be too although I'm not sure. Just accept it.

[Shaolin-Style]

lol I can barely get one woman much less two, some help this article is

[Darrin]

"And kids are going to drink and smoke pot anyway, so why not do it with your supervision? Let's take the edge off!"

:rolleyes

Power is not what a relationship is about--it's about trust. It's about going to bed at night knowing that person won't hurt you, no matter the eye-candy or the opportunity. He made a commitment to stay with you, not because he was afraid to be without you, but because he loves you, and expects you to do the same thing for him.

Otherwise YOU ARE NOT EXCLUSIVE! If you want to spice things up, be a part of it--make it a threesome. Or you run the risk of him forming a more intimiate bond with someone else. If my girlfriend came to me and said "be with other people," I'd emotionally check out. I'd leave the relationship. What I hear is "you are just like every other knuckle-dragging, man" or "I want to cheat. I'll give you the option because you're a horny dog and you'll recipricate."

The most powerful woman is a single one.

[bigzak25]

The article, in a nutshell is that this woman has never been truly loved and has therefore given up on the concept and accepted that it is not possible for her.

That is why she calls monogamists heroes, as she feels they are few and far between, and she may be right.

So what she has embraced is a relationship that separates sex as an insatiable human desire that cannot be controlled.

Same way some women have embraced the 'bitch' word as a word of power.

Same way some african-americans have embraced the n word.

She is wrong, but I do not blame her as that is most likely due to every man she has met in her life being a selfish prick.

She therefore feels empowered by giving permission to these men to be selfish pricks as long as they do not fulfill the heartfelt desires of other women, only the carnal ones.

It's masterfully sick. It's a perverted shield.

To feel empowered because you feel you have control over another is for the weak, as our true strength comes from our ability to control ourselves.

[resistanze]

nope

my woman is mine. i am territorial, and a woman becomes more beautiful to me when we are in love and happy together, mine and only mine.
You Arabs.

[phyzik]

The article, in a nutshell is that this woman has never been truly loved and has therefore given up on the concept and accepted that it is not possible for her.

That is why she calls monogamists heroes, as she feels they are few and far between, and she may be right.

So what she has embraced is a relationship that separates sex as an insatiable human desire that cannot be controlled.

Same way some women have embraced the 'bitch' word as a word of power.

Same way some african-americans have embraced the n word.

She is wrong, but I do not blame her as that is most likely due to every man she has met in her life being a selfish prick.

She therefore feels empowered by giving permission to these men to be selfish pricks as long as they do not fulfill the heartfelt desires of other women, only the carnal ones.

It's masterfully sick. It's a perverted shield.

To feel empowered because you feel you have control over another is for the weak, as our true strength comes from our ability to control ourselves.

Jesus love at its finest point.... completely out of touch with reality and never questioning the natural human behavior. I NEVER said this chick was right, on the contrary, I think she is a whore trying to mask herself against what she is. I bleive in monogamy. Thats part of the reason why I have never commited to no woman, I just feel I havnt met the right person..... Or maybe Im just a horndog.... Either way, Im not going to subject myself, or someone else that I may or may not care about, to something like this.

Bigzak, I have no ill will towards your beliefs in the "allmighty" but you have seriously started to sound like a troll since your supposed "episode". If you are serious, and continue down the path you are going, you WILL have another "episode" when REALITY finally hits you..... I have no doubt at all!!

I have NO ties to any religion but seeing your back-assward posts makes me want to pray for your sanity.

Get your ass back to reality.

You seriously need to find a balance between your faith and your life and realize that shit isnt all hunky-dory with the time we have on this planet. Sorry to break it to you brother but we are on our own. No ammount of praying is going to fix that.

[bigzak25]

Bigzak, I have no ill will towards your beliefs in the "allmighty" but you have seriously started to sound like a troll since your supposed "episode". If you are serious, and continue down the path you are going, you WILL have another "episode" when REALITY finally hits you..... I have no doubt at all!!

I have NO ties to any religion but seeing your back-assward posts makes me want to pray for your sanity.

Get your ass back to reality.

You seriously need to find a balance between your faith and your life and realize that shit isnt all hunky-dory with the time we have on this planet. Sorry to break it to you brother but we are on our own. No ammount of praying is going to fix that.


We are only on our own if we choose to be.

Sorry if I come across as a troll.

I am not surprised though, as I recently saw in a movie, that the only thing truly shocking left in this world is true love. What a shame that is.

The harshness of life is what it is. We all go through it if we live long enough.

We will all feel the pain, no doubt.

However, I have learned to make lemonade from lemons my friend...in every instance.

I have no fear of this reality you speak of, for I am preparing for the worst reality imaginable. :toast

rokiD_ychLM

[ploto]

Seems to me that it is a just a woman trying to justify the slutty life she lived as a paid mistress to married men.

[lebomb]

This article is really total bullshit. First and foremost...........Humans are NOT animals period. Animals do not have the ability to make rational decisions. Humans do. Basically a lion will never think "maybe I should not fuck that female lion over there.......her boyfriend is 50yrds from me" Humans can and will make a decision based on reasoning. Animals never reason. There.......that is my humble opinion. :hat

[DarkReign]

This article is really total bullshit. First and foremost...........Humans are NOT animals period. Animals do not have the ability to make rational decisions. Humans do. Basically a lion will never think "maybe I should not fuck that female lion over there.......her boyfriend is 50yrds from me" Humans can and will make a decision based on reasoning. Animals never reason. There.......that is my humble opinion. :hat

While your point is salient, that what separates humans from animals is our capacity to reason (among other things), saying we are not animals is patently untrue.

You need only look at your senses/biology and how they function to realize we have far more in common with animals than say, an insect.

We are animals, we are just cognitively advanced animals when compared.

[lebomb]

While your point is salient, that what separates humans from animals is our capacity to reason (among other things), saying we are not animals is patently untrue.

You need only look at your senses/biology and how they function to realize we have far more in common with animals than say, an insect.

We are animals, we are just cognitively advanced animals when compared.


Well, I guess this depends if you believe in god, or evolution. See, god created MAN......and then he created animals. Two completely different things. Now.........if you believe in evolution..........we apparently came from apes........so yes, we would have something in common with animals. :wakeup

[The Reckoning]

yeah right. you sleep with one girl. she'll go bang two guys at once. sleep with two girls, she'll bang four guys at once, etc. women love revenge, so this wouldnt work at all.

[MannyIsGod]

This article is really total bullshit. First and foremost...........Humans are NOT animals period. Animals do not have the ability to make rational decisions. Humans do. Basically a lion will never think "maybe I should not fuck that female lion over there.......her boyfriend is 50yrds from me" Humans can and will make a decision based on reasoning. Animals never reason. There.......that is my humble opinion. :hat

Your UTSA education sucks. Animals make rational decisions all the time.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Well, I guess this depends if you believe in god, or evolution. See, god created MAN......and then he created animals. Two completely different things. Now.........if you believe in evolution..........we apparently came from apes........so yes, we would have something in common with animals. :wakeup

+5

Y'all will RARELY hear me get preachy, but human beings are far from animals. Not in a genetic sense, but in a spiritual sense (of course, the perspective changes drastically depending on the beliefs of the individual). All I can say is that biologically, we men are not predisposed to long-term monogamy. It's just not our nature.

What sets us apart from the animal kingdom, however, are morals. We have the ability (and responsibility) to choose either to commit to a monogamous relationship or not. And in so choosing, we relinquish the "right" to fuck around (pun intended). Animals are bound by no such morals (territorialism doesn't qualify as genuine affection, either) and do not vountarily enter such societal contracts.

[MannyIsGod]

Well, I guess this depends if you believe in god, or evolution. See, god created MAN......and then he created animals. Two completely different things. Now.........if you believe in evolution..........we apparently came from apes........so yes, we would have something in common with animals. :wakeup

Your UTSA education is failing you. Apes and us both came from a common ancestor. We did not come from apes.

[MannyIsGod]

People that try to separate humanity from the animal kingdom are funny. Hey look at us! We're SPECIAL!

[LoneStarState'sPride]

People that try to separate humanity from the animal kingdom are funny. Hey look at us! We're SPECIAL!

Considering humanity has superior reasoning skills, and highly complex language development, I'd say we ARE special. You don't even have to get into the evolution debate to figure that out.

[MannyIsGod]

Considering humanity has superior reasoning skills, and highly complex language development, I'd say we ARE special. You don't even have to get into the evolution debate to figure that out.

We have far more that connects us than separates us. So much more that its not even close. Yet, we're not animals. Oh no, being an animal would be horrible!

:rolleyes

[MannyIsGod]

ojydNb3Lrrs

[The Gemini Method]

But yet...as a "superior" species, we rape, kill, murder, our own for reasons not named survival or food...

[bigzak25]

If one feels they are nothing more than an animal, they are right.

If one feels they are indeed special, and much much more than an animal, they are right as well.

[tlongII]

We humans are ALL part of the animal kingdom. I'm disappointed that some people don't seem to realize that. We are ape-like and possess a brain more advanced than any other creature on the planet. Thank God for evolution or we wouldn't have this advanced brain.

[DarkReign]

Amazing, simply amazing.

I post in two forums. Here and a hockey forum. Thats it.

How a thread about some tramp preaching the gospel of controlled infidelity turned into whether humans are animals, God vs Evolution, is beyond me.

I didnt think...I seriously didnt think that my comment about humans being a member of the animal kingdom (albeit, at the very top) would go this route.

Pathetic, really. "...humans the only one with complex language..." Just because you cant understand it, doesnt make it dumb. Whales and dolphins have a far, FAR more complex "language" system than humans.

In order for humans to explain how they feel, we need paragraphs of utterances neatly assembled for consumption by another, and even then there is no guarantee our point will ever be understood.

OTOH, a whale need onlyproduce a sub-sonic murmur and whales on nearly the other side of the ocean will know where to get food, how damn good it feels to be full, the condition of the pod and where them bitches at.

In one sub-sonic murmur.

[Sisk]

We have far more that connects us than separates us. So much more that its not even close. Yet, we're not animals. Oh no, being an animal would be horrible!

:rolleyes

real talk

[Cool2LOVE]

You guys may be onto something.

VmTmvBzNFY4

[Ignignokt]

Your UTSA education sucks. Animals make rational decisions all the time.

that's bullshit.

Animals are driven by instinct.

[The Batman]

so will lakaluva let koolaid stray?

[Ignignokt]

But yet...as a "superior" species, we rape, kill, murder, our own for reasons not named survival or food...

Humans are serial killers.

Lakerfan wisdom.

[MannyIsGod]

that's bullshit.

Animals are driven by instinct.

You don't think animals are capable of learning?

[Ignignokt]

You don't think animals are capable of learning?

apes learn, still their capacity to use reason is based on desire. They have a very limited reasoning capacity.

[MiamiHeat]

apes learn, still their capacity to use reason is based on desire. They have a very limited reasoning capacity.

Why do men look for women? Desire for sex or intimacy

Why do you look for a job and earn money? Desire for food and shelter

Really, we're still very similar. Just more complex in the way we do things.

but if you break it down....it's just sophisticated monkeys walking around trying to fuck, eat good food, find entertainment, and gain territory/property.

Hence my title.

We even use the same tactics. A businessman or politician will ally himself with likeminded people who will support his cause, and reward them with favors and special privileges.

Chimpanzee's do the same thing. The Alpha Male of the troop will give extra rations of food to his loyal supporters.

[MannyIsGod]

apes learn, still their capacity to use reason is based on desire. They have a very limited reasoning capacity.

Don't move goalposts. I never said animals were going to write philosophies. Beyond apes many animals show the capacity for rational thought.

[MiamiHeat]

xOrgOW9LnT4

[MiamiHeat]

dbwRHIuXqMU

[lebomb]

Don't move goalposts. I never said animals were going to write philosophies. Beyond apes many animals show the capacity for rational thought.


You NOT having any education really sucks. Humans are not animals dumbass. Humans have emotions and can reason. Animals could give two shits about most things. If you think your neighbors hamster or turtle is similar to yourself........that is your business. :rolleyes

[Drachen]

You NOT having any education really sucks. Humans are not animals dumbass. Humans have emotions and can reason. Animals could give two shits about most things. If you think your neighbors hamster or turtle is similar to yourself........that is your business. :rolleyes


Dogs cant get angry? How about scared? Those are emotions.
You also conceded that apes can reason a few posts back, but not as well as humans seems to be your arguement.

Great, no one has said that any animal is able to do all of these things to a human's level, just that humans are more advanced versions of animals.

A dog is MS-DOS, Humans are Windows 7.

[MannyIsGod]

You NOT having any education really sucks. Humans are not animals dumbass. Humans have emotions and can reason. Animals could give two shits about most things. If you think your neighbors hamster or turtle is similar to yourself........that is your business. :rolleyes

LOL UTSA

I'm pretty sure Homo Sapiens are a member of the Kingdom Animalia. So yes, humans are animals. Animals show emotion and the ability to reason too.

Why are you so afraid to be an animal?

The funny thing is I'm talking in completely undeniable and broadly accepted facts and you can't handle it.

[Drachen]

BTW, don't LOL UTSA, I am getting my master's there. Maybe you could "LOL not paying attention in science class from 6th grade on up" or something like that.

[lebomb]

LOL UTSA

I'm pretty sure Homo Sapiens are a member of the Kingdom Animalia. So yes, humans are animals. Animals show emotion and the ability to reason too.

Why are you so afraid to be an animal?

The funny thing is I'm talking in completely undeniable and broadly accepted facts and you can't handle it.


Sorry UNM knucklehead (tier 3 school founded in 1889) :rolleyes ..............but, I believe in the word, not evolution. God created heaven and earth, he created man...........he created woman..........he created animals. Im not an animal. :toast

[Drachen]

Sorry UNM knucklehead (tier 3 school founded in 1889) :rolleyes ..............but, I believe in the word, not evolution. God created heaven and earth, he created man...........he created woman..........he created animals. Im not an animal. :toast

See there Manny, you can "LOL ignoring significant DNA similarities" or "LOL using a story book to get your science" or "LOL using a book written by man to prove that man is better and different than animals (who had no input on the book that man wrote)"

Plenty of options.

[lebomb]

See there Manny, you can "LOL ignoring significant DNA similarities" or "LOL using a story book to get your science" or "LOL using a book written by man to prove that man is better and different than animals (who had no input on the book that man wrote)"

Plenty of options.

Thank you. Thats what Ive been trying to tell Manny. :hat

[MannyIsGod]

I will ponder the LOL options you have given me and I will consult THE WORD in order to choose one. Your UTSA education has served you well, Drachen.

[lebomb]

Your UTSA education has served you well.

Your UNM education hasnt. :depressed

[bigzak25]

I cannot speak for all animals,

But in my limited knowledge, I feel animals are ultimately driven by survival.

The difference is that I don't believe they have any understanding of an afterlife.

Therefore, survival on earth is the extent of their capacity.

We have a higher calling.

We all have a spiritual center, that unfortunately, we neglect too often.

Animals can therefore seem much wiser than those humans that turn away from their spiritual center, as humans tend to make stupid decisions all the time when their heart is not right.

Animals will then to make the right decision for survival, I don't know...9 times out of 10 maybe...while humans that are lost in this world do stupid things...like drink and drive...have unprotected sex with multiple partners and risk disease...smoke like chimney's giving themselves just a touch of cancer one day at a time...cuss and provoke others unnecessarily due to our own inner insecurities and our desire to 'prove' that we feel no pain, when in fact those are the ones hurting most of all...


The difference between us and animals, as far as I know, is a spiritual one.

If you reject your spiritual being, then you eliminate that difference.

[DisAsTerBot]

oh great.....the word. /thread

[Drachen]

Your UNM education hasnt. :depressed

I am not sure that you could tell. Your education at the Jesus School of Science and Technology at Bible U doesn't seem to have helped much.

[MannyIsGod]

JTT Tech?

[lebomb]

How come animals have not learned to speak English???

[Drachen]

How come animals have not learned to speak English???

Ok, now THAT was funny.

[MannyIsGod]

Do you know sign language, Pope Lebomb?

[Ignignokt]

Man is a rational being because he can choose to live or die. Animals are driven by instinct to live.

Also only man has the rational capabilities to transcend nature, chimps don't, nor do chimps recognize their choice to live or die.

[DisAsTerBot]

How come animals have not learned to speak English???

not speak...but understand and assemble thoughts...
http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/living/2010/08/05/am.kluger.animals.think.cnn?hpt=T2

[DisAsTerBot]

double post

[MannyIsGod]

Man is a rational being because he can choose to live or die. Animals are driven by instinct to live.

Also only man has the rational capabilities to transcend nature, chimps don't, nor do chimps recognize their choice to live or die.

The debate is not whether man is the smartest animal on earth. That is quite obvious. There are differences and man has developed skills the other great apes have not.

But none of that means we're not animals.

[lebomb]

The debate is not whether man is the smartest animal on earth. That is quite obvious. There are differences and man has developed skills the other great apes have not.

But none of that means we're not animals.


Until I see an animal, cut a 1/2 acre yard and edge it, wash and wax an automobile..........write a research paper, speak a few sentences of English, hit a home run in a ballpark, rebuild the motor in a boat or truck, construct a house or building........make millions a year in sports, invent any damn thing in the world.......etc. etc. etc............. animals and humans will never be the same. :rolleyes

[Drachen]

Until I see an animal, cut a 1/2 acre yard and edge it, wash and wax an automobile..........write a research paper, speak a few sentences of English, hit a home run in a ballpark, rebuild the motor in a boat or truck, construct a house or building........make millions a year in sports, invent any damn thing in the world.......etc. etc. etc............. animals and humans will never be the same. :rolleyes

Are babies not human? I have never seen a baby do any of those things.

[MannyIsGod]

Until I see an animal, cut a 1/2 acre yard and edge it, wash and wax an automobile..........write a research paper, speak a few sentences of English, hit a home run in a ballpark, rebuild the motor in a boat or truck, construct a house or building........make millions a year in sports, invent any damn thing in the world.......etc. etc. etc............. animals and humans will never be the same. :rolleyes

The funny thing is the average UTSA student can't do some things on that list.

:lmao

[Drachen]

Ahhh haaaa, I see what you did there with the word average. Sneaky, but acceptable.

[bigzak25]

From another viewpoint,

The difference between animals and humans is what drives our relationships and how we derive our happiness from those relationships.

Animals develop relationships for survival.

We as humans, have a deeper meaning to our relationships. We do not choose our wives or husbands just to have someone to procreate with. We choose them because we feel a connection, something deeper that pulls us together, or at least that's why we should choose them.

Our true happiness stems from the love we feel within our relationships.

Animals may or may not be on this level, I have never spoken to one, maybe some are and others aren't, but I think that is what truly separates us.

[Summers]

A lot more people have open marriages than you probably think because people are so judgmental about it. I've known people with open marriages and they are normal, loving people with happy, healthy children, not desperate sluts or amoral animals. If it's not your cup of tea, then don't sleep around. It's that simple.

[bigzak25]

A lot more people have open marriages than you probably think because people are so judgmental about it. I've known people with open marriages and they are normal, loving people with happy, healthy children, not desperate sluts or amoral animals. If it's not your cup of tea, then don't sleep around. It's that simple.


I'm not surprised, as I can easily equate an open marriage to a husband or wife masturbating to porn, and we all know that happens quite frequently.

These people, of whom I was one until recently, will most definitely seem like quite normal and loving people.

Ask yourself this though, do they have any true love for the person they are cheating with? Do they love the person they are masturbating to? Most often not. Most often they are just another person with whom to get their sexual gratification from and then never see again.

So in essence, these normal loving people are using other people and allowing themselves to be used in the process.

Do you like to be used? Do you like to use other people?

Hopefully not.

And I'm not asking these questions to you personally, I'm asking them generally.

[Summers]

I'm not surprised, as I can easily equate an open marriage to a husband or wife masturbating to porn, and we all know that happens quite frequently.

These people, of whom I was one until recently, will most definitely seem like quite normal and loving people.

Ask yourself this though, do they have any true love for the person they are cheating with? Do they love the person they are masturbating to? Most often not. Most often they are just another person with whom to get their sexual gratification from and then never see again.

So in essence, these normal loving people are using other people and allowing themselves to be used in the process.

Do you like to be used? Do you like to use other people?

Hopefully not.

And I'm not asking these questions to you personally, I'm asking them generally.

Isn't that the point, though? They already have loving, committed relationships. An affair is a sexual relationship without the pretense of commitment or love, which is the opposite of using people if that's what two consenting adults agree to do.

[ploto]

An affair is a sexual relationship without the pretense of commitment or love...

There are many people in affairs who think they are in love.

[Summers]

lol anyone who has an affair isn't in a "loving, committed relationship." you really don't give a shit about your partner if you stab them in the back like that.

How's it stabbing someone in the back if they know what their spouse is doing and don't mind?

[phyzik]

From another viewpoint,

The difference between animals and humans is what drives our relationships and how we derive our happiness from those relationships.

Animals develop relationships for survival.

We as humans, have a deeper meaning to our relationships. We do not choose our wives or husbands just to have someone to procreate with. We choose them because we feel a connection, something deeper that pulls us together, or at least that's why we should choose them.

Our true happiness stems from the love we feel within our relationships.

Animals may or may not be on this level, I have never spoken to one, maybe some are and others aren't, but I think that is what truly separates us.


Sorry, this is complete utter bullshit...

There are multiple documented cases of your so called "animals" protecting their kin even when they are not family. In fact, I think they are more "human" then we homosapiens are at times.

No doubt they mate to survive, but what do you say about the remote human tribes that live that same life style in remote regions like in South Africa? Are they not human?

Survival is hardcoded in all of us.... human or otherwise.... Just because we have an advanced understanding of science, or some belief in a religion, doesnt seperate us from being sapien.

They mate because they HAVE to. We wouldnt be here without that, regardless if we evolved or not.

What would happen to the human race today if we met a global cotastophy and held to the belief of monogomy?

I will answer that..... the human race would die.

plain and simple.

I dont like it much, but its the cold hard truth. If shit hits the fan, society is going to go back to the middle ages and maybe even worse... Women will be raped.... people will starve... but life will find a way.

Thats the way of "life" not "god".

[Darrin]

There are many people in affairs who think they are in love.

zPG1n1B0Ydw

It's a fraud and unfair then.

[phyzik]

Jesus is all loving and has no hate.....

Except for Revelation 2:6

:rolleyes

Sorry people, the bible is full of contridictions.....

Its story covers its own ass and has been modified countless times with countless ommisions to suit the governing body of the church. Nevermind that a TON of the stories have been ripped off from civilizations that existed THOUSANDS of years prior.

My whole problem is with "religion". I dont have a problem believing in a higher being... its "Religion" thats the problem with me.

Look at EVERY single war... EVERY ONE.... all of them have to do with some type of religious belief at their core begining..... ALL OF THEM!

religion is the cancer of human society today and has been for thousands of years.

Until people buck the trend of religion, we will not be able to advance collectively as the human race.

Bottom line.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Wow how did I know the thread would devolve to this?


One singular thought:

SpursWoman, you're a self-admitted swallower, lover of non-condom sex, and have claimed to have a libido to match a young 15 year old Cretan boy. So fucking NATURALLY you would not expect a guy to want other pussy. Any guy in a monogamous relationship would slice off one ball to have a chick with your sexual credentials.

[SpursWoman]

I just choked on my coffee .... thanks. :lol

[bigzak25]

Isn't that the point, though? They already have loving, committed relationships. An affair is a sexual relationship without the pretense of commitment or love, which is the opposite of using people if that's what two consenting adults agree to do.


Well, Summers, I think I just have a different viewpoint on it. From my perspective, it's an agreement to use each other with no strings attached...and with permission from their husband or wife to share the most intimate thing they can with a complete stranger for no good reason other than that they must satisfy their uncontrolled lust.

These people are not masters of their own domain and simply refuse to control themselves.

I cannot claim to be much different, as I know I need to lose weight and I still sit down in front of a good chinese meal or mexican plate more often than I should...but at the same time, that is not directly using another human being.

Still, the self control point remains.

These people that step out on their loving relationships and children, I just wonder if this is what they hope their children grow up to do as well. They are setting the example after all.

[bigzak25]

Jesus is all loving and has no hate...

So you DO know the truth about Jesus and Our Father.


Except for Revelation 2:6

:rolleyes

Sorry people, the bible is full of contradictions.....

The passage you refer to simply states how the one who holds the seven stars in his right hand, the one who walks among the seven gold lampstands, hates evil deeds.

Would someone with true love in their heart, not have a disdain for evil deeds?

This passage does not say there is a hatred for the people perpertrating these deeds, only a hatred of the evil actions themselves.

It is a blessing, and it says this is in your favor, because who among us reading this right now does not have disdain for evil deeds?

If you question your answer to that, then you are currently a sleepwalker.

Time to wake up my friends.



Revelation 2
The Message to the Church in Ephesus


“Write this letter to the angel[a] of the church in Ephesus. This is the message from the one who holds the seven stars in his right hand, the one who walks among the seven gold lampstands:

2 “I know all the things you do. I have seen your hard work and your patient endurance. I know you don’t tolerate evil people. You have examined the claims of those who say they are apostles but are not. You have discovered they are liars. 3 You have patiently suffered for me without quitting.
4 “But I have this complaint against you. You don’t love me or each other as you did at first! 5 Look how far you have fallen! Turn back to me and do the works you did at first. If you don’t repent, I will come and remove your lampstand from its place among the churches.[B] 6 But this is in your favor: You hate the evil deeds of the Nicolaitans, just as I do.
7 “Anyone with ears to hear must listen to the Spirit and understand what he is saying to the churches. To everyone who is victorious I will give fruit from the tree of life in the paradise of God.



Its story covers its own ass and has been modified countless times with countless ommisions to suit the governing body of the church. Nevermind that a TON of the stories have been ripped off from civilizations that existed THOUSANDS of years prior.

My whole problem is with "religion". I dont have a problem believing in a higher being... its "Religion" thats the problem with me.

Look at EVERY single war... EVERY ONE.... all of them have to do with some type of religious belief at their core begining..... ALL OF THEM!

religion is the cancer of human society today and has been for thousands of years.

Until people buck the trend of religion, we will not be able to advance collectively as the human race.

Bottom line.

You seem to have a problem with 'religion'. Good. What you have a problem with is the inconsistencies and the contradictions. Your insight is serving you well. Hold fast to the New Testament and the Teachings and path of Jesus. Get your primary education from the source. Jesus and God are True Love. That is the truth, the way, and the light. Hold fast to that, and you will see like never before.

Do not let yourselves be fooled by those who 'fight' for God, for they are simply serving the evil one. God wants us to love for Him. Love in His name. Those that choose to fight are lost.

God Bless you. :toast

[bigzak25]

Sorry, this is complete utter bullshit...

There are multiple documented cases of your so called "animals" protecting their kin even when they are not family. In fact, I think they are more "human" then we homosapiens are at times.

No doubt they mate to survive, but what do you say about the remote human tribes that live that same life style in remote regions like in South Africa? Are they not human?

Survival is hardcoded in all of us.... human or otherwise.... Just because we have an advanced understanding of science, or some belief in a religion, doesnt seperate us from being sapien.

They mate because they HAVE to. We wouldnt be here without that, regardless if we evolved or not.

What would happen to the human race today if we met a global cotastophy and held to the belief of monogomy?

I will answer that..... the human race would die.

plain and simple.

I dont like it much, but its the cold hard truth. If shit hits the fan, society is going to go back to the middle ages and maybe even worse... Women will be raped.... people will starve... but life will find a way.

Thats the way of "life" not "god".


What kind of life is that.

I'd rather die serving God's will then live serving my own simply to survive in a cruel world such as the one you speak of...such as the one we live in now.

Look around. People are raped and murdered at alarming rates and there are millions in the world if not more starving right this moment.

The world is what it is...at the moment.

[CuckingFunt]

lol then it's not a relationship at all they're just fuck buddies

what kind of husband and wife openly fuck other people?

Many kinds. Such arrangements are far more common than you think.


you're a dumb slutty broad haha get your head examined if a man really loves you he doesnt let u fuck other guys haha your husband lied to you your life is a lie he doesn't love you

I would argue that if people really love each other, they have a relationship built on mutual respect, trust, and understanding, rather than on what one partner will "let" the other partner do.

[MannyIsGod]

What kind of life is that.

I'd rather die serving God's will then live serving my own simply to survive in a cruel world such as the one you speak of...such as the one we live in now.

Look around. People are raped and murdered at alarming rates and there are millions in the world if not more starving right this moment.

The world is what it is...at the moment.

Man you're so noble and above animals Zak. Serving God's will and all.

[lebomb]

The only similarity between me and an animal is that Im a BEAST in the sack when it comes to sexin the ladies. :hat

[CuckingFunt]

Well, Summers, I think I just have a different viewpoint on it. From my perspective, it's an agreement to use each other with no strings attached...and with permission from their husband or wife to share the most intimate thing they can with a complete stranger for no good reason other than that they must satisfy their uncontrolled lust.

It's incorrect to assume that sex is viewed as the "most intimate thing" for all couples. I, personally, don't think that a physical act is anywhere near as intimate as the mental, emotional, and spiritual connection felt between me and the person I love.

Which is not to say that I engage in open relationships, by the way. I have no problem keeping things casual when that's all I'm after, but I tend to be naturally physically monogamous when I love someone. Sex is still sex, though. I've been cheated on in the past, and it hurts like hell, but not because my boyfriend stuck his penis in someone else. The dishonesty is what hurt. The loss of trust is what hurt. The knowledge that my partner was keeping such a huge piece of himself from me is what hurt. All of those things are, to me, much more intimate than the physical act of sex.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

I tend to think that if you do stray/cheat, then you should shut your fucking mouth about it. The guilt, shame, pain and hurt are yours to bear, and yours alone.

[CuckingFunt]

I tend to think that if you do stray/cheat, then you should shut your fucking mouth about it. The guilt, shame, pain and hurt are yours to bear, and yours alone.

I tend to think that's dependent on the type of cheating you're doing or have done.

A one-time drunken mistake that won't be repeated? Sure. I can understand keeping it quiet. It's not necessarily what I would do, because I tend to be too honest for my own damn good, but I get it.

A long, involved, affair in which you're essentially living a second life with someone? At that point I think you owe it to the person you once loved to be honest so that they have a chance to move on. Affairs that long always get discovered and I can guarantee it hurts less to be left than to find out you've been lied to for years. I would also say the same for chronic cheating. Even if you don't confess to cheating, you should have the decency to be honest about the fact your relationship is no longer working.

[DisgruntledLionFan#54,927]

Yeah, I was talking about the one-time, short-term variety.

The stories of people having other families somewhere else in the world always fascinate me. I can't imagine how much work must go into something like that.

[tlongII]

People are still having sex...

[Cry Havoc]

I'm almost positive this thread has been very well trolled by lebomb.

Almost positive.

[Summers]

Well, Summers, I think I just have a different viewpoint on it. From my perspective, it's an agreement to use each other with no strings attached...and with permission from their husband or wife to share the most intimate thing they can with a complete stranger for no good reason other than that they must satisfy their uncontrolled lust.

These people are not masters of their own domain and simply refuse to control themselves.

I cannot claim to be much different, as I know I need to lose weight and I still sit down in front of a good chinese meal or mexican plate more often than I should...but at the same time, that is not directly using another human being.

Still, the self control point remains.

These people that step out on their loving relationships and children, I just wonder if this is what they hope their children grow up to do as well. They are setting the example after all.

I think it's so odd that you said in a previous post you had an open marriage "until recently" (while proselytizing, I presume). The people I know make no claims to have all the answers. They conduct their marriage the way they want to and leave others to conduct theirs as they see fit. With whom they choose to have sex has nothing to do with how loving their families are.



It's incorrect to assume that sex is viewed as the "most intimate thing" for all couples.

This.


lol then it's not a relationship at all they're just fuck buddies

what kind of husband and wife openly fuck other people? you're a dumb slutty broad haha get your head examined if a man really loves you he doesnt let u fuck other guys haha your husband lied to you your life is a lie he doesn't love you

I think I don't need relationship advice from someone calling himself "Vulvaface".

[Ignignokt]

I think it's so odd that you said in a previous post you had an open marriage "until recently" (while proselytizing, I presume). The people I know make no claims to have all the answers. They conduct their marriage the way they want to and leave others to conduct theirs as they see fit. With whom they choose to have sex has nothing to do with how loving their families are.




This.



I think I don't need relationship advice from someone calling himself "Vulvaface".

That's pretty sick.

[Ignignokt]

Summers, would you bang someone who is a friend of your husband?

[MannyIsGod]

I'm almost positive this thread has been very well trolled by lebomb.

Almost positive.

You know, I thought about that. Its one reason I stopped replying to him. If indeed he did, it is masterful work.

The problem is I don't believe he's capable of pulling something like that off. There are a few people like DarrinS and Wild Cobra who I've thought either they're completely retarded or some of the best trolls out there. They always do something to swing you to the retarded option, however.

I'm probably never going to be willing to give Lebomb the type of credit necessary to believe he's capable of that given his history. Why? Because he's done too many things to make me understand he's retarded.

[bigzak25]

Man you're so noble and above animals Zak. Serving God's will and all.

I do not claim to be above anything. I feel we as humans have a greater calling, and as such should be protector of our animals.

I remember cleaning out my dog's dirty water bowl in 2005. It wasn't really my dog, but my wife's uncles dog, whom I had named buddy. Anyhow, I cleaned that bowl good...and after I placed it on the ground, I drank from it.

I wanted to show God my humbleness. I don't want my dogs drinking out of a bowl that I would not want to drink out of.

So now I have shared my story with you.

Take care buddy. :toast

[bigzak25]

It's incorrect to assume that sex is viewed as the "most intimate thing" for all couples. I, personally, don't think that a physical act is anywhere near as intimate as the mental, emotional, and spiritual connection felt between me and the person I love.

Which is not to say that I engage in open relationships, by the way. I have no problem keeping things casual when that's all I'm after, but I tend to be naturally physically monogamous when I love someone. Sex is still sex, though. I've been cheated on in the past, and it hurts like hell, but not because my boyfriend stuck his penis in someone else. The dishonesty is what hurt. The loss of trust is what hurt. The knowledge that my partner was keeping such a huge piece of himself from me is what hurt. All of those things are, to me, much more intimate than the physical act of sex.


I agree with what you are saying to a certain extent CF, but I find it tragic that so many have separated the two. I refuse the 'sex is still sex' mantra. I call it the most intimate thing because I feel it is supposed to be the culmination of the mental, emotional, and spiritual connection felt between you and the person you love.

Of course the dishonesty and loss of trust will hurt. But the majority of the pain is felt because that was something that, like I just said, should be the culmination of all the wonderful things that make a beautiful relationship. And when your partner shares that part of him or herself with another, it diminishes the times when he or she shared it with you.

[DarkReign]

:rollin when you are married you don't just "have sex" with people who aren't your spouse

that's more of an agreed living arrangement than a real relationship. gah, society is a lot more fucked these days than i even realized if there are people out there like you who actually believe this garbage

Youre ignorant.

Nowhere in her posts did she say she has an open relationship. Nowhere.

Again, youre ignorant.

[Ginobilly]

:lmao if your husband knows that you're taking other dick on the side and doesn't mind it's because he no longer loves you and just doesn't want to go through a messy divorce and lose everything

exactly! Why get married at all if you want to keep having sex with multiple dudes? Your better off just being Bi and ordering sperm off the internet, so you and your naturalist bull dyke could have all the sexual fun in the world. Invite the Expendables of porn: Ron Jeremy, Erik Everhard, Nacho Vidal, Rocco, Wesly Pipes, and Lexington Steel to have fun everyday in massive gangbangs while your test tube kids watch.

[bigzak25]

I think it's so odd that you said in a previous post you had an open marriage "until recently" (while proselytizing, I presume). The people I know make no claims to have all the answers. They conduct their marriage the way they want to and leave others to conduct theirs as they see fit. With whom they choose to have sex has nothing to do with how loving their families are.

I said I equate an open marriage to a husband or wife masturbating to porn.

Yes, I was one who masturbated to porn until recently. I have stopped.

It was a natural progression from my efforts to stopping lusting after women.

Which I have also accomplished.

However, I am of a live and let live philosophy.

But again, I must say that I find it tragic that so many denigrate the act of making love to someone that should be your soul mate into a simply carnal act...as if they were an animal.

[tlongII]

I do not claim to be above anything. I feel we as humans have a greater calling, and as such should be protector of our animals.

I remember cleaning out my dog's dirty water bowl in 2005. It wasn't really my dog, but my wife's uncles dog, whom I had named buddy. Anyhow, I cleaned that bowl good...and after I placed it on the ground, I drank from it.

I wanted to show God my humbleness. I don't want my dogs drinking out of a bowl that I would not want to drink out of.

So now I have shared my story with you.

Take care buddy. :toast

What the...??!! :wtf :lmao

[Ginobilly]

I said I equate an open marriage to a husband or wife masturbating to porn.

Yes, I was one who masturbated to porn until recently. I have stopped.

It was a natural progression from my efforts to stopping lusting after women.

Which I have also accomplished.

However, I am of a live and let live philosophy.

But again, I must say that I find it tragic that so many denigrate the act of making love to someone that should be your soul mate into a simply carnal act...as if they were an animal.


:wtf AC Green forum!

[Cant_Be_Faded]

I think we need to redefine our societal concepts of "relationship" and "single"

Just like we are now coming to accept there being a spectrum of sexuality instead of "gay" or "straight" maybe the entire relationship concept is a spectrum too.

That would easily explain some of the odd behavior and tensions between so-called "couples"

[Dave Mustaine]

I think we need to redefine our societal concepts of "relationship" and "single"

Just like we are now coming to accept there being a spectrum of sexuality instead of "gay" or "straight" maybe the entire relationship concept is a spectrum too.

That would easily explain some of the odd behavior and tensions between so-called "couples"

when you get cold at night do you snuggle up with mookie's blanket shirt? Do you get jealous when he lets other men snuggle up with his shirt?

[ploto]

I do not understand the idea of entering into a marriage with someone with whom you have decided in advance your sexual relationship will not be enough for one or both of you. If you get married with this belief up front, then I do not understand why you even marry the person. If you decide this part of the way into your marriage, you should just admit you married the wrong person. I wonder how many of these people really do not love each other, but just do not want to get divorced for the kids, or the money, or whetever. So they stay married and pretend to be happy and loving but they are probably having little or no sex with each other and all or most of their sex is outside the marriage.

I do not fathom the claim that some couple is happily married and have a great sex life. The husband goes on a business trip for 2 days and the wife is fine with him banging whatever slut he finds in the hotel bar. He comes home and she is thrilled to have sex with him that night knowing full well he slept with some whore that morning. More than likely, they sleep in dfferent bedrooms, haven't touched each other in years, and they each allow it for some sort of pretence of marriage.

[Ignignokt]

lol, this thread.. This thread...

[bigzak25]

uelHwf8o7_U


Interesting video...if it wasn't for Rhianna's stupid lines, "just gonna stand there and watch me burn, but thass alright, cuz I love the way it hurts" and "love the way you lie" then maybe it wouldn't be such a bad thing, but as it is, i shudder at the thought of middle and high school girls thinking this video is 'just the way it is'.

[CuckingFunt]

I do not understand the idea of entering into a marriage with someone with whom you have decided in advance your sexual relationship will not be enough for one or both of you. If you get married with this belief up front, then I do not understand why you even marry the person. If you decide this part of the way into your marriage, you should just admit you married the wrong person. I wonder how many of these people really do not love each other, but just do not want to get divorced for the kids, or the money, or whetever. So they stay married and pretend to be happy and loving but they are probably having little or no sex with each other and all or most of their sex is outside the marriage.

I do not fathom the claim that some couple is happily married and have a great sex life. The husband goes on a business trip for 2 days and the wife is fine with him banging whatever slut he finds in the hotel bar. He comes home and she is thrilled to have sex with him that night knowing full well he slept with some whore that morning. More than likely, they sleep in dfferent bedrooms, haven't touched each other in years, and they each allow it for some sort of pretence of marriage.

I don't claim to know what everyone does in an open relationship. But, of the many couples I have known who have had non-traditional relationship structures, exactly zero of them were the type to bang hotel bar whores while away on business trips.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Which is not to say that I engage in open relationships, by the way. I have no problem keeping things casual when that's all I'm after, but I tend to be naturally physically monogamous when I love someone. Sex is still sex, though. I've been cheated on in the past, and it hurts like hell, but not because my boyfriend stuck his penis in someone else. The dishonesty is what hurt. The loss of trust is what hurt. The knowledge that my partner was keeping such a huge piece of himself from me is what hurt. All of those things are, to me, much more intimate than the physical act of sex.

Ok. Let me get this straight. Are you saying you didn't mind your boyfriend doing the actual cheating on you but you didn't like him not telling you about it?

[CuckingFunt]

Ok. Let me get this straight. Are you saying you didn't mind your boyfriend doing the actual cheating on you but you didn't like him not telling you about it?

No. I'm saying that the dishonesty is the part that felt more like cheating than the physical act of sex.

[ChuckD]

While you are correct that monogamy is reinforced by society, it's not the reason for it's widespread existence. Monogamy is instinctual, but it may be temporary for some people.... the question is - how long can it last? Many people have no problem being monogamous for a few years, but then they want to stray.


Almost all of the 5 great apes are territorial when it comes to mating. Heck, you can even say that almost all mammals are the same way.

1) The male wants to ensure his seed is passed on. He won't allow any other male to mate with the female. This is hard-wired in our biology for reproduction. We want our genes to spread, not another male's genes.

2) The female wants a secure, safe environment to raise the off-spring. She wants the male to stick around and provide food and safety, etc.. Having other females around are a direct risk to her and her children. It creates competition for food and protection, and it can affect the children's chances of survival.

The problem is, many mammals have multiple partners in their lifetimes, including the great apes. The male lion is territorial and keeps all the females to himself, but he still mates with more than one female. Chimpanzee's are the same way, you have a Male Alpha chimp who controls the troop and the mating within the troop. He doesn't share his females, but he has multiple females to mate with. In this way, females are usually always familiar with only one male partner, but the males are usually mating with more than one female.


So there is an argument that men have a biological drive in them to fuck around....

but the body is primitive and we can't allow our bodies to control our behavior. It's the other way around. The mind controls the body, and so you CAN be happy in a monogamous relationship for the rest of your life, but it takes a certain level of development, goals, and maturity.


damn, thats a lot of words hurr durrr

Did your GF make you see a therapist after you got strange fur, because that's a lot of psychobabble and self righteousness coming from someone who can't keep his cock in his pants.

[ChuckD]

I do not claim to be above anything. I feel we as humans have a greater calling, and as such should be protector of our animals.

I remember cleaning out my dog's dirty water bowl in 2005. It wasn't really my dog, but my wife's uncles dog, whom I had named buddy. Anyhow, I cleaned that bowl good...and after I placed it on the ground, I drank from it.

I wanted to show God my humbleness. I don't want my dogs drinking out of a bowl that I would not want to drink out of.

So now I have shared my story with you.

Take care buddy. :toast

You also wanted to show God your humbleness by stripping naked, giving away everything, including the company laptop, and tearing up and eating your plane ticket in Ireland. How's that working out for you?

[bigzak25]

You also wanted to show God your humbleness by stripping naked, giving away everything, including the company laptop, and tearing up and eating your plane ticket in Ireland. How's that working out for you?



Hey Chuck, everything is working out as God has planned, thanks for asking.

I am happier than I have ever been in my life...I am finally at peace.

Do you want all the details or is that good enough for you? :toast


Also, please note that I did NOT give away the company laptop. It was stolen. I was not as diligent as I should have been in watching after it when I stepped away from it to the curbside to clean out my backpack and when I looked back, it was gone. I take full responsibility for being negligent. But I cannot give away what is not mine to give...for that is stealing, and is the opposite of what I'm all about.

[bigzak25]

Also, I did not eat a plane ticket. I tore up an $800 check and an $800 dollar travel voucher, threw away my id and passport and tossed the last 6 euros I had for the shuttle to the airport down the storm drain.

I showed faith, and I have been rewarded. :tu

[Viva Las Espuelas]

No. I'm saying that the dishonesty is the part that felt more like cheating than the physical act of sex.

Ok. Let me make it simpler.

You're ok with him banging other girls

A. Yes
B. No

You were mad he banged someone and kept it from you?

A. Yes
B. No

[CuckingFunt]

Ok. Let me make it simpler.

You're ok with him banging other girls

A. Yes
B. No

You were mad he banged someone and kept it from you?

A. Yes
B. No

B and A respectively.

Had he been honest enough to tell me, before fucking around, that he was no longer in seeing me exclusively, though, I may have been okay with scaling back to a more casual relationship. Or, I may not have been. Impossible to answer now. But, at the time, the fact that he fucked a couple other women paled in importance to the fact that he didn't respect me enough to let me make decisions in the course of my own life.

[Viva Las Espuelas]

B and A respectively.

Had he been honest enough to tell me, before fucking around, that he was no longer in seeing me exclusively, though, I may have been okay with scaling back to a more casual relationship. Or, I may not have been. Impossible to answer now. But, at the time, the fact that he fucked a couple other women paled in importance to the fact that he didn't respect me enough to let me make decisions in the course of my own life.
Ok, but it sounds like now, by what you wrote, that it wouldn't be ok that he screwed around on you. But like you said, who knows. The main thing you said was respect. All parties should respect others and themselves equally.

[tlongII]

B and A respectively.

Had he been honest enough to tell me, before fucking around, that he was no longer in seeing me exclusively, though, I may have been okay with scaling back to a more casual relationship. Or, I may not have been. Impossible to answer now. But, at the time, the fact that he fucked a couple other women paled in importance to the fact that he didn't respect me enough to let me make decisions in the course of my own life.

No dude's going to tell you that. That's just not the way we roll.

[CuckingFunt]

No dude's going to tell you that. That's just not the way we roll.

Poorly worded on my part, perhaps.

I don't imagine much of anyone would use their desire to start sleeping with other people as a conversation starter, but I think there are plenty of people (men AND women) who are mature enough to voice their concerns within a relationship before it gets to the point of lying and fucking around. Once that conversation happens, all other decisions -- exclusivity, staying together, breaking up, trying to revive the love life, whatever -- can be made as a team, rather than one person unilaterally making decisions that affect both people.

That's kind of my problem with cheating, really. There may be exceptions within the example of one-time drunken mistakes, but it has been my experience that most cheating includes a moment in which you're faced with the choice of working at fixing a broken relationship, or lazily ignoring the problems and sneaking around. The latter choice includes such a level of disrespect for your partner that, to me, the sex part becomes irrelevant.

[ALVAREZ6]

Until I see an animal, cut a 1/2 acre yard and edge it, wash and wax an automobile..........write a research paper, speak a few sentences of English, hit a home run in a ballpark, rebuild the motor in a boat or truck, construct a house or building........make millions a year in sports, invent any damn thing in the world.......etc. etc. etc............. animals and humans will never be the same. :rolleyes

Just because we are more advanced doesn't mean we aren't animals...

Honestly I have reason to believe you haven't completed high school by the way you've built your argument.

There's nothing negative about considering us, humans, as animals.

[4>0rings]

I have this strange urge to take Summers and Cucking Funt out for a nice seafood dinner...

[lebomb]

Just because we are more advanced doesn't mean we aren't animals...

Honestly I have reason to believe you haven't completed high school by the way you've built your argument.

There's nothing negative about considering us, humans, as animals.


If we were animals, that is WTF we would be called!!! :lmao

We are humans plain and simple. There really isnt anything to discuss. If we were one in the same why hasnt anyone ever fucked an ANIMAL and had a child with it.....or cub, or pup, or whatever. Animals and humans are two completely different organisms. :rolleyes


To be honest............with all of YOU so called internet scholars in here, why havent I heard one decent argument as to humans being animals??? Sure humans act like fuckin animals all the time, but that doesnt mean they are one.

[ALVAREZ6]

If we were animals, that is WTF we would be called!!! :lmao

We are humans plain and simple. There really isnt anything to discuss. If we were one in the same why hasnt anyone ever fucked an ANIMAL and had a child with it.....or cub, or pup, or whatever. Animals and humans are two completely different organisms. :rolleyes

Oh really..or how about humans, technically homo sapiens, are a species?

To help your dumb ass out: Why do we call dogs, "dogs"? ... I know why, because we can't just call everything animals.

Wiki:
Humans, known taxonomically as Homo sapiens (Latin: "wise man" or "knowing man"),[3][4] are the only living species in the Homo genus of bipedal primates in Hominidae, the great ape family.


LOL comparing humans to animals

Seriously, LOL very hard :rollin:lmao


Why don't snakes fuck birds? They're both animals right? Fucking retard, use your brain.





And just to go beyond the point, a side note, is every single term humans have come up with accurate or true, and not misleading? As if we are perfect, we've come up with stupid ass terms all the time, and we continue to do it as a society, all the time.
But really in this case, there is no flaw, we are just a different specie of animal.





:lol :lol :lol again, Jesus Christ how can people, yes humans, be so dumb even when on computers where they can take 2 seconds to research anything... lebomb you should try this out. If you had, you'd know we are part of the great ape family.

And does that have any negative connotation to it? Fuck no. Who the fuck seriously cares that we are animals? If that's the type of thing that would bother your self-vision of yourself and fellow humans, you just might deserve to be more of what you traditionally define as an instinctive animal.

Use your human brain.

[lebomb]

But really in this case, there is no flaw, we are just a different specie of animal.


Still nothing you said makes me remotely believe humans and animals are one in the same. Your argument sucks as much ass as all the others.

[ALVAREZ6]

Still nothing you said makes me remotely believe humans and animals are one in the same. Your argument sucks as much ass as all the others.

:lol

Again, there IS NO ARGUMENT. I'm not going to argue about FACTS. It is fact whether you believe it or not.

[lebomb]

:lol :lol :lol again, Jesus Christ how can people, yes humans, be so dumb even when on computers where they can take 2 seconds to research anything... lebomb you should try this out. If you had, you'd know we are part of the great ape family.

And does that have any negative connotation to it? Fuck no. Who the fuck seriously cares that we are animals? If that's the type of thing that would bother your self-vision of yourself and fellow humans, you just might deserve to be more of what you traditionally define as an instinctive animal.

Use your human brain.

Dont get me started on that evolution shit...............if we are from the ape family and evolved from them..........why the fuck are there still apes. Also, why hasnt a damn thing evolved in what hundreds of millions of years? What is the next animal............errrrr human to evolve? :lmao

[lebomb]

:lol

Again, there IS NO ARGUMENT. I'm not going to argue about FACTS. It is fact whether you believe it or not.


They are facts to YOU, you will get arguments against what you believe all day long. There are no facts on this.............it theory. Humans are not animals, unless you believe in evolution. Which I dont. God created man and god then created animals, to which man named. Go ahead and believe in your theory. If cool with me. :toast

[Sisk]

I know this isn't the troll forum.. but mouse needs to get in here and rack this fucking thread

[redzero]

Nobody can be this stupid.

Humans aren't animals?

:lmao

[to21]

Sending Summers a PM.....

[lebomb]

Nobody can be this stupid.

Humans aren't animals?

:lmao

When you show me a poodle walking a human around, wiping up his shit............then I will believe it.

[DarkReign]

Dont get me started on that evolution shit...............if we are from the ape family and evolved from them..........why the fuck are there still apes. Also, why hasnt a damn thing evolved in what hundreds of millions of years? What is the next animal............errrrr human to evolve? :lmao

My God, man, is that how you frame your argument about evolution?

If you dont understand something, just say so, dont open your mouth and spout nonsense.

Its better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Humans did not evolve from apes, just as apes did not evolve from humans.

We just have a common ancestor. The family tree split, one side are the primates (chimps, orangs, gorillas, etc) and the other is homo sapien sapien (humans).

Last I read, science uses "sapien" twice when referring to modern man. That way no one gets confused about the same homo sapiens that lived at the same time as neanderthals.

Just ask, man. You dont want to believe it? Fine. But dont talk about it if you obviously dont udnerstand even the most rudimentary aspects.

[byrontx]

When you show me a poodle walking a human around, wiping up his shit............then I will believe it.

Religion prospers in ignorance.

The main question is "How many centuries of educating the general populous does it take to get past this?"

[phyzik]

My God, man, is that how you frame your argument about evolution?

If you dont understand something, just say so, dont open your mouth and spout nonsense.

Its better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Humans did not evolve from apes, just as apes did not evolve from humans.

We just have a common ancestor. The family tree split, one side are the primates (chimps, orangs, gorillas, etc) and the other is homo sapien sapien (humans).

Last I read, science uses "sapien" twice when referring to modern man. That way no one gets confused about the same homo sapiens that lived at the same time as neanderthals.

Just ask, man. You dont want to believe it? Fine. But dont talk about it if you obviously dont udnerstand even the most rudimentary aspects.

Best Explination so far... :tu

[lebomb]

My God, man, is that how you frame your argument about evolution?

If you dont understand something, just say so, dont open your mouth and spout nonsense.

Its better to be thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Humans did not evolve from apes, just as apes did not evolve from humans.

We just have a common ancestor. The family tree split, one side are the primates (chimps, orangs, gorillas, etc) and the other is homo sapien sapien (humans).

Last I read, science uses "sapien" twice when referring to modern man. That way no one gets confused about the same homo sapiens that lived at the same time as neanderthals.

Just ask, man. You dont want to believe it? Fine. But dont talk about it if you obviously dont udnerstand even the most rudimentary aspects.

Like I said, you believe in the THEORY of evolution. Why is this so hard to understand ......... Mr. internet scholar? Can you friggen read?? :rolleyes

You will never convince those who believe in god that evolution took place. There are as many holes in the evolution THEORY as there are in the creation THEORY.

So your argument sucks as badly as the next one.

Oh yeah.................... Humans are not animals.

[DarkReign]

Like I said, you believe in the THEORY of evolution. Why is this so hard to understand ......... Mr. internet scholar? Can you friggen read?? :rolleyes

You will never convince those who believe in god that evolution took place. There are as many holes in the evolution THEORY as there are in the creation THEORY.

So your argument sucks as badly as the next one.

Oh yeah.................... Humans are not animals.

Mr Internet Scholar?

Look, bud, youre the one trying to degrade evolution, not me. But you dont even understand evolution and that is...kind of a requirement when trying to criticize something.

You lack even the most basic, rudimentary understanding of evolution.

Which is totally fine. Just dont ever talk about it, or criticize it, or scoff at it publicly unless you enjoy looking like an ostrich with your head in the sand.

Do I understand every aspect of every religion's creation story? No. Do I have the cliff notes on Christianty's version? Yes.

Therefore, I can half-ass speak semi-intelligently about the 6-7 days it took God to create existence as we know it.

You, otoh, cant even frame your target subject correctly in the most rudimentary form. Just because you dont personally "believe" in evolution doesnt mean you cant have an understanding of its underlying principles. Just as non-secular people at least have a basic understanding of religion, even though they dont choose to believe in any.

Its called expanding your horizons. You dont want to "believe" in evolution...dude, thats totally fine, its a free country and I have personally met and worked with extremely intelligent people who are Creationists through and through.

But they also didnt just ignore its existence, certainly not to the extent that they would make some comment like "Humans came from apes?! Fuck that, doooood" because they know how incredibly dumb and uninformed that would make them look.

Thats all I am saying, juding by the internet scholar crack, youre not interested in anything but your narrow view anyway. I have actually read a good portion of Romans from the Bible, even though I wasnt reading it as a spiritual guide, I still wanted to read an important story that has influenced so many billions of people over time. My intention is to actually read the entire Bible, not to be able to argue for/against it, but because of its influence and historical significance.

Is it too much for you to read and understand something as profound to the world of science as Darwin's Origin of the Species [revised]? Or is that too much for you? Have you ever read anything you didnt agree with/didnt like?

Its called having an open mind, even to things you dont agree with/never will agree with. Intellectual curiosity, yes even to things you are diametrically opposed to. That was my one and only point.

[lebomb]

Mr Internet Scholar?

Look, bud, youre the one trying to degrade evolution, not me. But you dont even understand evolution and that is...kind of a requirement when trying to criticize something.

You lack even the most basic, rudimentary understanding of evolution.

Which is totally fine. Just dont ever talk about it, or criticize it, or scoff at it publicly unless you enjoy looking like an ostrich with your head in the sand.

Do I understand every aspect of every religion's creation story? No. Do I have the cliff notes on Christianty's version? Yes.

Therefore, I can half-ass speak semi-intelligently about the 6-7 days it took God to create existence as we know it.

You, otoh, cant even frame your target subject correctly in the most rudimentary form. Just because you dont personally "believe" in evolution doesnt mean you cant have an understanding of its underlying principles. Just as non-secular people at least have a basic understanding of religion, even though they dont choose to believe in any.

Its called expanding your horizons. You dont want to "believe" in evolution...dude, thats totally fine, its a free country and I have personally met and worked with extremely intelligent people who are Creationists through and through.

But they also didnt just ignore its existence, certainly not to the extent that they would make some comment like "Humans came from apes?! Fuck that, doooood" because they know how incredibly dumb and uninformed that would make them look.

Thats all I am saying, juding by the internet scholar crack, youre not interested in anything but your narrow view anyway. I have actually read a good portion of Romans from the Bible, even though I wasnt reading it as a spiritual guide, I still wanted to read an important story that has influenced so many billions of people over time. My intention is to actually read the entire Bible, not to be able to argue for/against it, but because of its influence and historical significance.

Its called having an open mind, even to things you dont agree with/never will agree with. Intellectual curiosity, yes even to things you are diametrically opposed to. That was my one and only point.

Whoaaaa ............ OK.

My point .......... Humans are not animals.

[DarkReign]

Whoaaaa ............ OK.

My point .......... Humans are not animals.

But we are, that is my point. Our physiology (lungs, eyes, heart-valves, hair, genitals, feet, skin, liver, etc, etc, etc, etc) are found in every mammal on the planet.

Really, if you are able to look at it objectively, the only difference between humans and any other mammal is intelligence and irrationality.

Thats it.

So if your similarities number in the (literally) thousands and your dissimilarities number less than 10, its disingenuous and patently unscientific to say you are not a member of the family Animalia, especially since that term is expansive and encompassing.

No one is arguing that we are members of Plantae or Fungi, just that we share an almost numberless similar characteristics with specific animals (namely Mammalia).

You just cannot ignore the physical similarities, objectively. Hell, even the social constructs are eeirly similar with specific mammals (namely primates). Too many to name, that all.

[lebomb]

.

[redzero]

But we are, that is my point. Our physiology (lungs, eyes, heart-valves, hair, genitals, feet, skin, liver, etc, etc, etc, etc) are found in every mammal on the planet.

Really, if you are able to look at it objectively, the only difference between humans and any other mammal is intelligence and irrationality.

Thats it.

So if your similarities number in the (literally) thousands and your dissimilarities number less than 10, its disingenuous and patently unscientific to say you are not a member of the family Animalia, especially since that term is expansive and encompassing.

No one is arguing that we are members of Plantae or Fungi, just that we share an almost numberless similar characteristics with specific animals (namely Mammalia).

You just cannot ignore the physical similarities, objectively. Hell, even the social constructs are eeirly similar with specific mammals (namely primates). Too many to name, that all.

There is no point in trying to reasonably talk to this guy. He's hopelessly convinced that his warped religious perspective is correct, and he doesn't care about facts.

[Summers]

There are as many holes in the evolution THEORY as there are in the creation THEORY.



As a general rule, I never get into these arguments, because it's pointless, but the above statement is simply wrong. We could get into a friendly scientific debate about the "holes" that exist in either theory (which I will not do... because it would be pointless) and evolution wins, hands down. No fossil find has ever not matched the transitional form that should occur in the rock strata in which it's found. The missing links have been found. DNA mapping shows common descent. The science is there if you care to enlighten yourself. The THEORY of evolution is as rock-solid as the theory of gravity or quantum physics. To quote one of the smartest men I know: "Science--it works, bitches."





Is it too much for you to read and understand something as profound to the world of science as Darwin's Origin of the Species [revised]? Or is that too much for you? Have you ever read anything you didnt agree with/didnt like?



Very heavy reading, imo, but if someone wanted to read a very interesting and educational book on the topic in layman's terms, I recommend "Why Evolution is True" by Jerry Coyne.

And that's all I'm adding to this topic. :)

[lebomb]

As a general rule, I never get into these arguments, because it's pointless, but the above statement is simply wrong. We could get into a friendly scientific debate about the "holes" that exist in either theory (which I will not do... because it would be pointless) and evolution wins, hands down. No fossil find has ever not matched the transitional form that should occur in the rock strata in which it's found. The missing links have been found. DNA mapping shows common descent. The science is there if you care to enlighten yourself. The THEORY of evolution is as rock-solid as the theory of gravity or quantum physics. To quote one of the smartest men I know: "Science--it works, bitches."





Very heavy reading, imo, but if someone wanted to read a very interesting and educational book on the topic in layman's terms, I recommend "Why Evolution is True" by Jerry Coyne.

And that's all I'm adding to this topic. :)





PLUG these holes in the evolution theory..............


"Below is a summary of what convinced me that natural evolution cannot be the answer to the question of origins.

Natural law. Scientists investigate the laws of nature. The very existence of law and order in the universe points to a source or lawgiver.

Law of cause and effect. All current scientific evidence indicates that the universe had a beginning. Before this evidence was found, many scientists thought that the universe had existed eternally and had no beginning. According to the law of cause and effect, every effect must have a cause. Since we have an effect (the beginning of the universe and life), there must have been a cause. That cause would necessarily be outside the present realm of nature.

First law of thermodynamics. The first law of thermodynamics states that energy cannot be created or destroyed. In the current order of nature, energy is transformed from one form to another, for example from nuclear energy (sun), to light, to chemical energy (in plants), to heat (when the food is eaten and the calories are used to warm the body), to motion (walking) or sound (speaking). Electricity is an additional form of energy. Energy can never be created or destroyed. This is not a theory, it's a law. Matter is related to energy (e=mc2), so energy can sometimes be transformed into matter and vice versa, but the energy itself cannot be created or destroyed. Since we have matter and energy, and since the universe has not always been in existence, energy had to have been created at some time in the past. Today's natural laws must not have always been in operation.

Second law of thermodynamics. The second law of thermodynamics describes the natural tendency of things to progress from order to disorder. This law states that order does not arise spontaneously from chaos. In other words, the universe is "running down." In the past, there was more usable energy in the universe than there is now. The same amount of energy exists because energy cannot be created or destroyed, but on the whole it is in ever less usable form.

The theory of natural evolution proposes that over millions of years, the universe and life on earth naturally proceeded from chaos (disorder) to the amazing degree of order we observe today. Although scientists argue that the excess energy of the sun could have powered these improvements without violating the law, evolution would have required not one but hundreds of millions of small movements "uphill". Even a single incidence of this would be unusual! Note that the apparent uphill movement of a seed to a tree or a fertilized egg to an adult animal is not random. The seeds contain the design code and instructions for "building" the organism from available materials. The question is, can information come from nothing? Can information organize itself in an orderly way?

Law of biogenesis. People once believed that maggots were spontaneously generated from the flesh of dead animals. They thought life could come from non-life. Louis Pasteur proved beyond doubt that life cannot arise from non-life. This is not a scientific theory, but a law. Proponents of evolution contend that life did arise spontaneously from non-life at least once in the past, in other words, that this particular natural law was broken or nonexistent sometime in the past.

Complexity of living cell. A single cell is far more complicated than any machine intelligent man has invented. A typical cell contains ten million million atoms (quadrillion). To reconstruct a model of a cell, atom by atom, one atom per second, would take about ten million years to finish. To get a cell by chance would require at least 100 functional proteins to appear simultaneously in one place. Even if that happened, would it be alive? A dead body (or a dead cell) has all of the proper proteins, enzymes, the cell wall, and the DNA design in one place, yet it is not alive.

Complexity of DNA code. The capacity of DNA to store information vastly exceeds that of any known system created by intelligent man. If the information in an individual's DNA were in small type in books like the telephone book, it would take a stack of books 46 feet high to hold all the information. Yet there is a DNA molecule in every one of the ten trillion cells in a human body. The design information to specify every person who has ever lived and every species of animal and plant which has ever existed would fit into a cup, with room left over.

Sexual reproduction. Evolutionists often point out that humans and chimpanzees share 99% of genetic material. Yet humans have 23 sets of chromosomes and chimps have 24. For two animals to mate, their chromosomes must match or "zip together." The proposed divergence of chimps and humans from a common ancestor is said to have occurred after sexual reproduction began. If the theory of evolution is true, an animal must have been born at some time in the past with a different number of chromosomes than its parents. Unless that animal was able to mate, it would have no adaptive advantage. Therefore, if evolution as proposed is true, two animals must have experienced the same change in the number of chromosomes in the same geographic location during the same generation. Although "coincidences" such as this have not been observed in nature, they must have happened thousands of times in the course of history if natural evolution is to account for what exists today.

Interdependence of proteins and DNA. The proteins needed for life cannot be manufactured without the design specifications of DNA. DNA cannot replicate itself without enzymes (proteins). According to atheist Richard Dawkins, "DNA and protein are two pillars of a stable and elegant arch, which persists once all its parts simultaneously exist. It is hard to imagine it arising by any step-by-step process unless some earlier scaffolding has completely disappeared." Such scaffolding is completely speculative.

Complexity of the brain. Microelectronics, created by intelligent man, can pack more than a million circuits within a cubic foot. The brain has been estimated to pack a million million circuits per cubic foot. The human brain contains about ten billion nerve cells, each of which can put out between 10,000 and 100,000 connectors. The number of possible associations, hence the number of potential thoughts a person can think, may exceed the number of atoms in the universe. The brain is by far the most complex thing known to man.

Probability. There are about 1070 atoms in the observable universe. There are only 1090 seconds in the 15 billion years generally said to be the age of the universe. The probability of spontaneously forming the smallest replicating protein molecule by chance is 1 in 10450. The probability of spontaneously forming proteins and DNA for the smallest self-replicating entity is 1 in 10167,626. The probability of a simple living cell reassembling itself under ideal natural conditions if all components were present but chemical bonds were broken is 1 in 10100,000,000,000. Mathematicians consider events in nature with a probability of less than 1 in 1050 to have a zero probability, i.e. to be impossible regardless of how much time is available.

Mutations. Mutations are errors in DNA copying. They are very rare and 99.99% of them are harmful or fatal. DNA has a built-in "proofreading" system with such accuracy that a typist would each have to type 20 billion books with only one typographical error for it to be matched. The neo-Darwinian synthesis proposes that mutations are the primary source of improved genetic material.

Natural selection can select from an existing gene pool that which is "fittest" for a particular environment. It does not even attempt to explain the origin of the material in the gene pool from which selections are made. Where did the huge variety of genetic information come from in the first place? Information must come from somewhere. It does not arise spontaneously.

Adaptation or "fit" of organisms to their environment. In many cases, many interlocking parts would have to come about at once for any mutation to be functional enough to be naturally selected. An example is the bombardier beetle. When threatened by an enemy, it blasts boiling hot gases from two tail pipes into the face of an attacker. The explosive is made inside the beetle's body by mixing together two dangerous chemicals (hydroquinone and hydrogen peroxide). In addition to these two chemicals, the beetle manufactures another type of chemical known as an "inhibitor." The inhibitor prevents the chemicals from blowing up and enables the beetle to store the chemicals indefinitely. When the beetle is approached by a predator, he squirts the stored chemicals into the two combustion tubes and at precisely the right moment he adds another chemical (an anti-inhibitor). This knocks out the inhibitor and a violent explosion occurs right in the face of the attacker. How could such as system, utilizing such dangerous chemicals, have evolved randomly step by step? All parts are necessary for any of them to have an adaptive advantage. The probability of more than one advantageous mutation arising at once is incredibly slim."


.................just sayin its not as cut and dry as it seems :wakeup

[redzero]

:lmao

This dude doesn't even know what evolution is, and yet he thinks he found valid criticisms of it.

He doesn't even know the difference between abiogenesis and evolution--and neither does the writer of that article that he copied and pasted without reading.

:rollin

[lebomb]

:lmao

This dude doesn't even know what evolution is, and yet he thinks he found valid criticisms of it.

He doesn't even know the difference between abiogenesis and evolution--and neither does the writer of that article that he copied and pasted without reading.

:rollin


So you are saying..............he has no valid questions or criticisms?

[redzero]

So you are saying..............he has no valid questions or criticisms?

Where did you get that from? If you got it from the place I think you got it from, I'll laugh at you even more.

[lebomb]

Where did you get that from? If you got it from the place I think you got it from, I'll laugh at you even more.


Like I asked..........plug the holes above. Give an answer to the holes in the theory. Stop beating around the bush.

[redzero]

Like I asked..........plug the holes above. Give an answer to the holes in the theory. Stop beating around the bush.

What holes? You don't even know what evolution is, and you don't know what the person you quoted was talking about.

Again, provide a link to the article you just copied and pasted.

[lebomb]

What holes? You don't even know what evolution is, and you don't know what the person you quoted was talking about.

Again, provide a link to the article you just copied and pasted.


Do you know what evolution is?

I obviously only know a little bit compared to your vast knowledge of evolution. Please enlighten me.

[redzero]

Provide the link to the article you copied and pasted, and stop trying to change the subject.

[lebomb]

Provide the link to the article you copied and pasted, and stop trying to change the subject.

Briefly tell me what evolution is please. I dont know shit about it apparently.

[ALVAREZ6]

No one wants to read your retarded ass copy n paste article of bullshit. You can't even summarize an argument for yourself.

[lebomb]

No one wants to read your retarded ass copy n paste article of bullshit. You can't even summarize an argument for yourself.


What is evolution? Come on guys............dont be pussies. Explain, since I dont know at all. Help me out here.

[redzero]

:lmao

He's too afraid to provide the link!

As if he hasn't made a fool of himself enough as is. :lol

[ALVAREZ6]

What is evolution? Come on guys............dont be pussies. Explain, since I dont know at all. Help me out here.

As I have explained many posts back, YOU ARE ON A COMPUTER.

Wikipedia is your friend :tu

[lebomb]

:lmao

He's too afraid to provide the link!

As if he hasn't made a fool of himself enough as is. :lol

Yall cant even give me your definition of evolution. I admit I havent studied it in depth as much as you and your buddy. But, I know enough to know there are holes in the theory.

So explain to me why evolution is true...........and plug the holes I found from ONE person online. There are many others, and that is why I dont believe evolution is true. :rolleyes

All yall can do is call someone a fool and idiot.

[redzero]

Yall cant even give me your definition of evolution. I admit I havent studied it in depth as much as you and your buddy. But, I know enough to know there are holes in the theory.

So explain to me why evolution is true...........and plug the holes I found from ONE person online. There are many others, and that is why I dont believe evolution is true. :rolleyes

I asked you first: provide the link to the article that you copied and pasted. Cite your sources.

[lebomb]

I asked you first: provide the link to the article that you copied and pasted. Cite your sources.


Doesnt matter.............you havent shown one source either or proven to me that evolution is real. You just say it is.

[ALVAREZ6]

Doesnt matter.............you havent shown one source either or proven to me that evolution is real. You just say it is.

Assuming we cannot say for sure either of the two theories are completely fact, accepted universally, there are far more holes in creationism than evolution. At a retarded disparity as well, my guess is a 100:1 ratio.

I'm putting my money where it's almost guaranteed.

[ALVAREZ6]

redzero: http://www.susancanthony.com/aboutsusan/evolution.html


You also could be more computer savy (lol, just copy n paste all that nonsense and you find the source....susancanthony.com lol whoever the fuck that is).

[redzero]

Doesnt matter.............you havent shown one source either or proven to me that evolution is real. You just say it is.

Why do I have the burden of proof? Evolution is a fact. The Theory of Evolution explains the fact that is evolution.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evolution
http://www.newscientist.com/topic/evolution
http://science.howstuffworks.com/environmental/life/evolution/evolution.htm
http://nationalacademies.org/evolution/
http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/search/topicbrowse2.php?topic_id=41
http://www.rationalrevolution.net/articles/understanding_evolution.htm
http://www.talkorigins.org/

If you want to know what evolution is (which you clearly don't), just look at a one of these pages.


But I still want to know why you are so afraid of providing a link to the article you copied and pasted? Were you not told to cite your sources in high school?

[lebomb]

Ya'll have a good evening. This is like politics.............

I just know I didn't call y'all idiots or try to put down your intelligence because you believe in evolution.

[redzero]

redzero: http://www.susancanthony.com/aboutsusan/evolution.html


You also could be more computer savy (lol, just copy n paste all that nonsense and you find the source....susancanthony.com lol whoever the fuck that is).

I know exactly where he got the article from because I googled a paragraph. I wanted him to link it himself because he referred to the writer--Susan Anthony--as a man.

lebomb probably googled "evolution" + "true" and copied and pasted the article without reading it. :rollin

[ALVAREZ6]

I know exactly where he got the article from because I googled a paragraph. I wanted him to link it himself because he referred to the writer--Susan Anthony--as a man.

lebomb probably googled "evolution" + "true" and copied and pasted the article without reading it. :rollin

haha I considered this possibility after I posted about copy n paste.

And I took about 30 seconds to read 2 parts of that bullshit, and to summarize, it basically says: "It's dominatingly more extensive than creationism, and thus cannot be true. Evolutionary theory is just too fucking good."

[ALVAREZ6]

Ya'll have a good evening. This is like politics.............

I just know I didn't call y'all idiots or try to put down your intelligence because you believe in evolution.

LOL well this is exactly your problem, because the opposite is true. If you think evolution has more holes than creationism, you are the fool.

[lebomb]

haha I considered this possibility after I posted about copy n paste.

And I took about 30 seconds to read 2 parts of that bullshit, and to summarize, it basically says: "It's dominatingly more extensive than creationism, and thus cannot be true. Evolutionary theory is just too fucking good."

Actually I did read it.................twice before I copied/pasted. There were other articles that showed big holes in evolution. This one just had more content and broke it down better.

Later you fuggin animals!!!!

[redzero]

Actually I did read it.................twice before I copied/pasted. There were other articles that showed big holes in evolution. This one just had more content and broke it down better.

Later you animals!!!!

What a liar! :lol

I'll ask you this one question:

Does the assertion that everything must have a cause disprove the theory of evolution? If so, why?

[Summers]

I nearly broke my rule and began answering some of the points in lebomb's long post that I think aren't logical, but I realized it would take me hours to respond well enough to feel good about my answer. (BTW, I haven't called you names.)

One big point I want to make: No biologist has ever claimed to know the origin of life. It's a common bait and switch used by creationist "scientists". Evolution isn't about how life began. It's about how all the forms of life we have now evolved from common ancestors.

Lebomb, if you're genuinely, intellectually interested in learning about evolution I will order you the book I mentioned above from amazon and have it sent to you. Really. It's a fascinating book and a quick read and answers a lot of the questions people have.

[Summers]

And now I have to go watch the season premiere of Bones! Night, y'all!

[BadOdor]

Tbh is anyone surprised that a UTSA graduate believes in creationism?

[I Cut]

So this went from loveless marriages to evolution? Jeeeeez. I know there's no rules but come on.

[Summers]

seriously every time i see you post it makes me want to puke now. women like you are everything that's wrong with people and relationships. you moral less sack of shit

When I decide I'm ready to turn my life to God and treat people with love and respect, I'll call you for pointers. Stay classy! :)

[Latarian Milton]

When I decide I'm ready to turn my life to God and treat people with love and respect, I'll call you for pointers. Stay classy! :)

you certainly agree to let your man stray, in return you get the equivalent freedom.

[Ignignokt]

If you go to Summer's house, they probably have the study room full with nothing but mattresses, and toys... freaky shit.

[howbouthemspurs]

My wife would cut my dick off!

[RandomGuy]

seriously every time i see you post it makes me want to puke now. women like you are everything that's wrong with people and relationships. you moral less sack of shit

Meh. Been meaning to get around this pile of horseshit for a while, but have been trying to decide if I should care about stories some internet troll decides he needs to fabricate to make himself feel better about his own shitty life.

(If you go back through that vulva pretty much admitted that he was simply equating someone's opinion of something with taking part in it.)

That has the same logical form as "my wife and I don't think it is evil to skydive, therefore vulva says we skydive".

Pretty asinine at the base of it, tbh.

Generally people that are that judgmental about others tend to, in my experience, be deeply insecure about themselves.
People that are that vicious about anything having to do with relationships and cheating tend to have been the victim of bad experiences themselves, or are downright guilty of doing it.

Really judgmental people also tend to never admit fault in themselves, especially when it comes to relationships.

I would be willing to bet that you horribly fucked up a relationship, and completely blamed the other person, without ever taking any responsibility for your own actions.

Given the vitriol, I would say that the relationship was a fairly long term one or an actual failed marriage.

[phyzik]

So..... How did this turn into a possible free pass from your women into another creation vs evolution thread?

just to add to the thread jack, personally I think its a combination of crationism and evolution.... We where planted here, either by a "higher" being or another alien race.... or maybe just a random meteor hitting the planet containing the basic elements required for life.... Regardless, the planet was "seeded" somehow. After that? it was evolution that took over.

It definately wasnt one day there was not man, and the next day there was... as the bible likes to preach.

[BackStabber]

How's it stabbing someone in the back if they know what their spouse is doing and don't mind?

:tu

[dirk4mvp]

lol admitting to cuckoldry

[703 Spurz]

Here's a thought...don't get in serious relationships or get married.

True. It isn't for idiots who can't keep their dick in their trousers

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Is it official that summer is random guys wife? Plus i don't get why yall are scoffing summers, if you recall the bravatar era, she had some big juicy jugs. Random guy did well

[Viva Las Espuelas]

Hmm. She must've not been that memorable then because I don't remember them. I was around then and I definitely remember a few ;)

:toast cheers to all you 1's and 2's!