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John Terry
08-03-2010, 08:48 PM
They were the people who managed the miraculous job of proselytizing a plain continent into the most prosperous land of the world. Eskimos and Indians first discovered this land so reasonably they should be the natural owners of it, but it was not until Columbus's discovery of it that this continent started off on a way leading to modernization.

During the centuries of cultivation, of course, the pleasing progresses were always accompanied by difficulties and challenges. To earn the complete dependence, immigrants fought a series of bloody wars against the British colonists and finally their efforts turned into successes. With the last British troops having surrendered in the Old York, Americans were admitted as the ultimate winners and the federalization of the 13 states marked a promising start for America's glorious history.

The civil war killed millions of people including soldiers and folks, and the NYC met a loss of nearly a half of lives through the white fever... all these events could have turned disasters that seemed strong enough to suffocate the young nation before its toddling age, but eventually they all turned out to be stooges that paved the way to greater achievements.

From the medieval years till the breakout of the second world war, the center of the world had always been located in Europe no matter who was the periodical dominator there. But the dominant power no longer existed as a label for the Europeans after the world wars, at most they were just a co-dominator as America had grasped a firm place in the world's headquarter.

All the thanks to immigrants. But for the immigrants, America would have been roughly the same as 5 centuries ago and today there would have been another continent of Africa's caliber. It was the European immigrants who wrote the most honorable chapter of human's history, and it was their relentless efforts that managed the greatest construction ever seen. There's no way anyone can smudge such honors those immigrants deserved, and they, although they all have passed away their descendants are enjoying the happiness and are obliged to let the glory continue. However, are today's immigrants capable of the same?

The "immigrants" who arrived in American before the 20th century were mostly Europeans- the descendants of the people who discovered the continent of America. There is no lawful reasons to claim Columbus the owner of this land, because the Indians were also human beings and they had lived there for many centuries before Columbus's arrival. If the law is the first people who discovers or resides in somewhere he owns this "somewhere", then Indians should be the owners of America. Had there not been anyone named Columbus, America would have probably remained a crude land that no one would want to reside in, instead of a paradise that foreigners would like to try their utmost to get in.

The natural land does not belong to the Europeans but the prosperity does. The Europeans made America what it is, so the right of using his land is not too big as a reward for their efforts. Americans have modernized most of the continent whereas there are also sufficient land reserved for Indians, where they can live in any way they like, but I'm pretty sure such lands are not what today's immigrants are eager to move in.

In the early years it was the immigrants who made the historical changes to this country, and today immigrants are also changing the country as well, in a different direction though.

In the 90s computers were not as much used as today, nor were i-phones or anything you take for granted today, but the people lived a much happier life in the 1990s.

I understand their desire of moving to a better land, living a better life etc., it's just humans instinct rather than anything sinful. But IMHO sometimes such craves should have been mortified by some sense of conscience, like you know your uncle earns twice your dad does and your uncle lives in a big house 5 times the size of your home, but you cannot join your uncle's anyway, even if uncle Sam would be glad to welcome you.

The government wants a bigger population because that would mean more tax payers, hence more fund for the government. It is true in the short term that immigrants can bring in some extra funds, but the cost would turn out to be very big through time. Cut the trees down and you will earn a considerable profit from selling the timber, but nature will make you pay someday.

America is no longer the plain land with abundant soil but limited labour. Sometimes the well vaunted democracy can also turn doubtful in America, IMO, folks don't want so many immigrants because they know immigrants will lower their living standards, but we're still seeing more and more immigrant hoods germinating around the streets, with the government showing them the perpetual green light.

A few centuries ago, Americans compressed the "native Americans" into the small mountainous areas, today it seems their descendants are about to meet a similar fate. Americans can still live where they live, but that's absolutely not what it used to be- the land they enjoyed living in.

Immigrants whereas are still lubricating their bodies trying to squeeze aboard the titanic, knowing it is already overloaded and will eventually get sagged and sunk someday. Immigrants will just jump onto the rafts to escape the sinking ship, with zero grief or rue, the ship has never been their home anyway.

Some Americans, TBH most Americans are bitterly against the illegal immigrants but more often than not they would suddenly turn their tunes when it comes to some other immigrants who are so-called "legal". whether it's legal or illegal is pretty much the choice of the bureau, which means nothing decisively different between the legals and illegals. The illegal guns are just sold cheaper but it doesn't mean there's any difference of quality, probably they were even assembled by the same producer and, they all kill.

CubanSucks
08-03-2010, 09:34 PM
pick a better hobby

Wild Cobra
08-03-2010, 09:47 PM
Now that we have this continent completely staked out, there is no room for countless immigration.

The legal immigration process does some essential things. it documents who is here. It medically tests people. It only allows for people who come here by sponsorship, or who can pay their own way, but still allows for some political exile types.

The immigration laws need enforced. We cannot allow countless people to come here, and increase the labor supply to available work ratio. They drain our social services.

Tell you what. If you want then to come, then sponsor as many as you can afford to pay for food, housing, medical, etc. till they can support themselves without utilizing social services paid for thy tax payers. If you cannot afford that burden yourself, then create a foundation with like minded people, and get donations, but keep your hands off my wallet.

pawe
08-03-2010, 09:50 PM
tldr

Viva Las Espuelas
08-03-2010, 10:09 PM
il·le·gal

–adjective 1. forbidden by law or statute.

2. contrary to or forbidden by official rules, regulations, etc.

Darrin
08-04-2010, 01:22 AM
They were the people who managed the miraculous job of proselytizing a plain continent into the most prosperous land of the world. Eskimos and Indians first discovered this land so reasonably they should be the natural owners of it, but it was not until Columbus's discovery of it that this continent started off on a way leading to modernization.

During the centuries of cultivation, of course, the pleasing progresses were always accompanied by difficulties and challenges. To earn the complete dependence, immigrants fought a series of bloody wars against the British colonists and finally their efforts turned into successes. With the last British troops having surrendered in the Old York, Americans were admitted as the ultimate winners and the federalization of the 13 states marked a promising start for America's glorious history.

The civil war killed millions of people including soldiers and folks, and the NYC met a loss of nearly a half of lives through the white fever... all these events could have turned disasters that seemed strong enough to suffocate the young nation before its toddling age, but eventually they all turned out to be stooges that paved the way to greater achievements.

From the medieval years till the breakout of the second world war, the center of the world had always been located in Europe no matter who was the periodical dominator there. But the dominant power no longer existed as a label for the Europeans after the world wars, at most they were just a co-dominator as America had grasped a firm place in the world's headquarter.

All the thanks to immigrants. But for the immigrants, America would have been roughly the same as 5 centuries ago and today there would have been another continent of Africa's caliber. It was the European immigrants who wrote the most honorable chapter of human's history, and it was their relentless efforts that managed the greatest construction ever seen. There's no way anyone can smudge such honors those immigrants deserved, and they, although they all have passed away their descendants are enjoying the happiness and are obliged to let the glory continue. However, are today's immigrants capable of the same?

The "immigrants" who arrived in American before the 20th century were mostly Europeans- the descendants of the people who discovered the continent of America. There is no lawful reasons to claim Columbus the owner of this land, because the Indians were also human beings and they had lived there for many centuries before Columbus's arrival. If the law is the first people who discovers or resides in somewhere he owns this "somewhere", then Indians should be the owners of America. Had there not been anyone named Columbus, America would have probably remained a crude land that no one would want to reside in, instead of a paradise that foreigners would like to try their utmost to get in.

The natural land does not belong to the Europeans but the prosperity does. The Europeans made America what it is, so the right of using his land is not too big as a reward for their efforts. Americans have modernized most of the continent whereas there are also sufficient land reserved for Indians, where they can live in any way they like, but I'm pretty sure such lands are not what today's immigrants are eager to move in.

In the early years it was the immigrants who made the historical changes to this country, and today immigrants are also changing the country as well, in a different direction though.

In the 90s computers were not as much used as today, nor were i-phones or anything you take for granted today, but the people lived a much happier life in the 1990s.

I understand their desire of moving to a better land, living a better life etc., it's just humans instinct rather than anything sinful. But IMHO sometimes such craves should have been mortified by some sense of conscience, like you know your uncle earns twice your dad does and your uncle lives in a big house 5 times the size of your home, but you cannot join your uncle's anyway, even if uncle Sam would be glad to welcome you.

The government wants a bigger population because that would mean more tax payers, hence more fund for the government. It is true in the short term that immigrants can bring in some extra funds, but the cost would turn out to be very big through time. Cut the trees down and you will earn a considerable profit from selling the timber, but nature will make you pay someday.

America is no longer the plain land with abundant soil but limited labour. Sometimes the well vaunted democracy can also turn doubtful in America, IMO, folks don't want so many immigrants because they know immigrants will lower their living standards, but we're still seeing more and more immigrant hoods germinating around the streets, with the government showing them the perpetual green light.

A few centuries ago, Americans compressed the "native Americans" into the small mountainous areas, today it seems their descendants are about to meet a similar fate. Americans can still live where they live, but that's absolutely not what it used to be- the land they enjoyed living in.

Immigrants whereas are still lubricating their bodies trying to squeeze aboard the titanic, knowing it is already overloaded and will eventually get sagged and sunk someday. Immigrants will just jump onto the rafts to escape the sinking ship, with zero grief or rue, the ship has never been their home anyway.

Some Americans, TBH most Americans are bitterly against the illegal immigrants but more often than not they would suddenly turn their tunes when it comes to some other immigrants who are so-called "legal". whether it's legal or illegal is pretty much the choice of the bureau, which means nothing decisively different between the legals and illegals. The illegal guns are just sold cheaper but it doesn't mean there's any difference of quality, probably they were even assembled by the same producer and, they all kill.

I hate this. It was not anyone's land to claim and we did modernize it, but we did it by killing, hunting, and warring with the "savages" which seems to be the label you are willing to give our immigrants today. They are not taking us backwards, dear friend. A multicultural society is the beauty of America--let freedom ring from every corner of the globe and let them mix together in our great land. Make them legal citizens and they have to pay taxes. They have to pay taxes, they will demand higher wages. They demand higher wages the playing field is level and they stop drawing from entitlements in numbers we cannot afford. Increase border security. Build the damn wall so you can drive the flow into concentrated areas we can control. Enforce the laws we have.

We need the illegal immgration to stop, not the immigration. We have done witch hunts for people that are a "threat" to security. Like the Italians and Irish. The Russians and Japanese. Let's not succumb to their fantasies of doom and make the same mistakes previous generations did.

redzero
08-04-2010, 01:26 AM
Cry more.

Illegal immigrants are breaking the law. They have a chance to get in this country legally, so they should wait in line like all the other people.

Wild Cobra
08-04-2010, 02:03 AM
We need the illegal immgration to stop, not the immigration. We have done witch hunts for people that are a "threat" to security. Like the Italians and Irish. The Russians and Japanese. Let's not succumb to their fantasies of doom and make the same mistakes previous generations did.
I agree. We allow over a million annually to come here legally. I'm not sure we need to raise that any. The 2008 numbers for getting citizenship are 1,046,539. 231,815 of them are from Mexico. These are the legal numbers

Back to immigration. The gives LPR (legal permanent residency) numbers from 1820 to 2007. I picked also [URL=http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/statistics/publications/natz_fr_2009.pdf]U.S. Legal Permanent Residents: 2009 (]2007 Yearbook of
Immigration Statistics[/URL) to get the 2008 and 2009 numbers for those obtaining LPR numbers:

2001 1,058,902
2002 1,059,356
2003 703,542
2004 957,883
2005 1,122,257
2006 1,266,129
2007 1,052,415
2008 1,107,128
2009 1,130,818

Isn't more than a million annually enough?

Darrin
08-04-2010, 06:48 AM
Isn't more than a million annually enough?

I'm talking about Amnesty for the illegals already here to get them into the system. I think that if we increased security those numbers will go down, but it has to be done.

Wild Cobra
08-04-2010, 12:31 PM
I'm talking about Amnesty for the illegals already here to get them into the system. I think that if we increased security those numbers will go down, but it has to be done.
No.

No amnesty. Have you talked to those using the legal system that are here, and what they think the equality is to them to allow that?

The moment this becomes a future reality, there will be a flood over the border to get here before some deadline for amnesty to apply. It's an outrageously stupid topic that cannot be discussed until we actually have border control. Until then, you will find too many people with my attitude. After such a rush cannot occur, then we can talk about amnesty, and how many and what conditions.

Obstructed_View
08-04-2010, 12:57 PM
I'm talking about Amnesty for the illegals already here to get them into the system. I think that if we increased security those numbers will go down, but it has to be done.

Unfortunately, that possibility can't even be discussed until the border is completely secure.