Mosque near Ground Zero - Thoughts?

[ElNono]

For the unaware:

Crucial landmarks panel vote clears the way for Ground Zero mosque (http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/08/03/2010-08-03_crucial_landmarks_panel_vote_could_clear_way_fo r_controversial_ground_zero_mosqu.html)

Mayor Bloomberg Stands Up For Mosque (http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/2010/08/bloomberg-stands-up-for-mosque.html)

Here's some criticism with a few more quotes:

Don't play the bigotry card, Mike! (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/don_play_the_bigotry_card_mike_oG2Rl3FXvV8FWbapQSH aWM)

------------------------------------------------

What are your thoughts on this?

[TeyshaBlue]

For the unaware:

Crucial landmarks panel vote clears the way for Ground Zero mosque (http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/08/03/2010-08-03_crucial_landmarks_panel_vote_could_clear_way_fo r_controversial_ground_zero_mosqu.html)

Mayor Bloomberg Stands Up For Mosque (http://www.nydailynews.com/blogs/dailypolitics/2010/08/bloomberg-stands-up-for-mosque.html)

Here's some criticism with a few more quotes:

Don't play the bigotry card, Mike! (http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/don_play_the_bigotry_card_mike_oG2Rl3FXvV8FWbapQSH aWM)

------------------------------------------------

What are your thoughts on this?

I'm using this topic to calibrate my "Don't Give a Fuck-O-Meter".

Done.

[George Gervin's Afro]

The argument from many of the Mosque opponents is primarily based on respect for the families of 9/11 victims. My view is pretty simple. If they can legally build there then you should let them.

On side note there are 9/11 victim's families who support the Mosque being built there..

[TeyshaBlue]

The argument from many of the Mosque opponents is primarily based on respect for the families of 9/11 victims. My view is pretty simple. If they can legally build there then you should let them.

On side note there are 9/11 victim's families who support the Mosque being built there..

Exactly. It nets to 0.

[ElNono]

This news is somewhat local to me, so you hear a lot about it here.

I just wanted to hear what other people here thought.

I personally align myself in the WGAF category.

[Drachen]

WGAF Krew Representin'

[TeyshaBlue]

This news is somewhat local to me, so you hear a lot about it here.

I just wanted to hear what other people here thought.

I personally align myself in the WGAF category.

I'm usually in the NYC area 15-20 times a year. I'll be up there again in Sept. I'll pay more attention to the local vibe on this. It really just hasn't pinged my sensorium yet.

[boutons_deux]

It seems like the Muslims could have picked a better, less controversial place, maybe where there are more Muslims (is this primarily a showcase mosque? or a everyday-worshipper mosque?).

otoh, I love see the "Christian" racists, nativists, xenophobes, NRA-gunnuts/militia types stirred up and exposed for what they really are.

[Spurminator]

Opponents of this will always express their concern "on behalf" of the 9/11 victims' families, because those opponents need the context of a monumental historical tragedy to shadow their own prejudice.

[TeyshaBlue]

@ boutons...I think it's proposed as an "everyday" mosque...community functional.

Mayor Bloomberg sums it up beautifully. "We would betray our values and play into our enemies' hands if we were to treat Muslims differently than anyone else..."


Hard to argue with that.

[coyotes_geek]

I don't really care one way or the other. Whatever the locals decide is fine by me.

[Marcus Bryant]

A bullshit emotional issue that Americans are adept at creating which will be forgotten tomorrow. Unless this mosque is connected directly to al Qaida I don't see an issue (and don't tell me they're connected since they're all dirty Moslems or what not).

[Parker2112]

This whole damn thing honestly makes me ask: Why?

I really believe someone is trying to fuck with someone else here. Someone somewhere is (1) trying to rub something in someone else's face, or (2) maybe it's simply a forced PC thing...for the personal growth of rednecks everywhere.

But bottom line: I just dont think this whole thing occurred by happenstance. This has a very orchestrated feel, but I can't put my finger on the "why?" or "by who" just yet...

[boutons_deux]

Bloomberg is also pro-illegal-immigrant, because, paraphrased quote, "We need them to maintain our golf courses" :)

[TeyshaBlue]

Bloomberg is also pro-illegal-immigrant, because, paraphrased quote, "We need them to maintain our golf courses" :)

That grass don't cut itself, Pancho!:lol

[Drachen]

It seems like the Muslims could have picked a better, less controversial place, maybe where there are more Muslims (is this primarily a showcase mosque? or a everyday-worshipper mosque?).

otoh, I love see the "Christian" racists, nativists, xenophobes, NRA-gunnuts/militia types stirred up and exposed for what they really are.

Technically I have read that it is not even a mosque but a Community Center. It will have a small prayer room similar to that of the chapel of a hospital or something like that.

[Drachen]

This whole damn thing honestly makes me ask: Why?

I really believe someone is trying to fuck with someone else here. Someone somewhere is (1) trying to rub something in someone else's face, or (2) maybe it's simply a forced PC thing...for the personal growth of rednecks everywhere.

But bottom line: I just dont think this whole thing occurred by happenstance. This has a very orchestrated feel, but I can't put my finger on the "why?" or "by who" just yet...


Actually the building that they are going to demolish to erect this Center has been used for years as a prayer meeting place without incident. It is also several blocks away from ground zero (yes that is new york city blocks, not san antonio blocks). They bought the land which was vacant several years ago, and now want to improve it. Go ahead.

[Marcus Bryant]

So a nothing issue to distract the people while the country goes bankrupt.

[Oh, Gee!!]

Actually the building that they are going to demolish to erect this Center has been used for years as a prayer meeting place without incident. It is also several blocks away from ground zero (yes that is new york city blocks, not san antonio blocks). They bought the land which was vacant several years ago, and now want to improve it. Go ahead.

exactly. sounds like they bought it, they own it, they submitted a proposal for the new building, and the proposal was granted. the only debate is whether it's in poor taste to go ahead with the construction. poor taste or not, it's a done deal.

[DarrinS]

A 13-story mega-mosque 600 feet from the WTC, built by an imam who advocates for replacing our Constitution with sharia law?

Why would that be offensive?

[Oh, Gee!!]

A 13-story mega-mosque 600 feet from the WTC, built by an imam who advocates for replacing our Constitution with sharia law?

Why would that be offensive?

so go be offended. scream till your lose your voice for all I care.

[101A]

Some people are trying to spin this as a backhanded slap - the name of the mosque "Cordoba", they claim, is a location of one of the greatest Islamic victories of all time; however true that may be, Cordoba was also the capital of Islamic Spain in the 9th and 10th centuries; one of the most open-minded and intermingled societies where Muslims, Jews and Christians mixed, mingled and advanced together. It, of course, didn't last; but for pre-reformation is mas nigh Utopian. (Doing this from memory of a PBS show I saw about this - some facts could be off).

Also, they are opening it on the 10th anniversary of 9/11 - again, some people take the name and ribbon cutting as dancing on the graves of 9/11 victims. To me, it's a non-issue; if they can put this up legally - they get to do it; we should celebrate the freedom they have to do so.

[Marcus Bryant]

If proposing constitutional changes makes one offensive the GOP congressional leadership needs to be outlawed as well.

Not to mention that if attempting to re-write the constitution to suit religious preferences is offensive there are plenty of social cons who need to have their religious liberty curtailed.

[TeyshaBlue]

A 13-story mega-mosque 600 feet from the WTC, built by an imam who advocates for replacing our Constitution with sharia law?

Why would that be offensive?

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y64/teyshablue/facepalmtommy.jpg

[DarrinS]

Why do we bend over backwards in our tolerance of Muslims when they obviously don't recipricate?


Does anyone know what the original name of "Operation Enduring Freedom" was and why it was changed?

[Marcus Bryant]

Why do we bend over backwards in our tolerance of Muslims when they obviously don't recipricate?


Ah, a false dilemma wrapped in a strawman.

[Marcus Bryant]

All dem Moslems tink alike lets kill dem awl an shoot up dar kamels.

You are a stupid motherfucker.

[DarrinS]

all dem moslems tink alike lets kill dem awl an shoot up dar kamels.

You are a stupid motherfucker.



gfy

[Oh, Gee!!]

Ah, a false dilemma wrapped in a strawman.

then deep-fried in paranoia

[Marcus Bryant]

gfy

You first, trew 'Murikan heerow.

[DarrinS]

You first, trew 'Murikan heerow.


There are families of 9/11 victims against this mosque (Deborah Burlingame comes to mind). Do you think they are just bigoted rednecks?

[Marcus Bryant]

After we git rid of dem Moslems den we kin git rid of the mexicans. Only trew murikans deeserve konstitewshunal writes

[Drachen]

For those who think we need to stop this: So since we have rule of law, what do you propose the minimum distance that any religion can have a place of worship from the site of a past terrorist attack? Also, you will likely have to move St. Peters if such a law were enacted.

As for why do we bend over backwards to tolerate differing views/religions etc: Because we are Americans, and this is the USA.

[ElNono]

A 13-story mega-mosque 600 feet from the WTC, built by an imam who advocates for replacing our Constitution with sharia law?

Why would that be offensive?

Would 610 feet not make it offensive? 700 feet? What is the distance that makes it kosher?

[Marcus Bryant]

There are families of 9/11 victims against this mosque (Deborah Burlingame comes to mind). Do you think they are just bigoted rednecks?

At least their opposition is understandable, whereas yours is capitalizing on an opportunity to act out your prejudices.

[ElNono]

There are families of 9/11 victims against this mosque (Deborah Burlingame comes to mind). Do you think they are just bigoted rednecks?

Do they think all Muslims are terrorists?

[Marcus Bryant]

For those who think we need to stop this: So since we have rule of law, what do you propose the minimum distance that any religion can have a place of worship from the site of a past terrorist attack? Also, you will likely have to move St. Peters if such a law were enacted.

As for why do we bend over backwards to tolerate differing views/religions etc: Because we are Americans, and this is the USA.

We have a Constitution, which purported "conservatives" such as Darrin claim to hold in high regard.

[Oh, Gee!!]

well, (according to Darrin's logic in his defense of BP) this mosque isn't that bad b/c it could have been taller, closer to ground zero, and more muslim-y.

[DarrinS]

Do they think all Muslims are terrorists?

Do you think they think all Muslims are terrorists?

If so, you are painting with a broad brush, like MB.

Do you think the Imam would mind if we put a large billboard with a cartoon of <name redacted -- peace be upon him>? Someone could legally rent the billboard. Wouldn't be very sensitive, would it?

[clambake]

Do you think they think all Muslims are terrorists?

If so, you are painting with a broad brush, like MB.

Do you think the Imam would mind if we put a large billboard with a cartoon of <name redacted -- peace be upon him>? Someone could legally rent the billboard. Wouldn't be very sensitive, would it?

why don't you rent 2 billboards and put the klan on the other?

[Marcus Bryant]

ROFL.

I am painting you with a fine brush, Francis.

[DarrinS]

We have a Constitution, which purported "conservatives" such as Darrin claim to hold in high regard.


Actually, I believe in separtion of church and state -- exactly the opposite of Sharia law.

[Parker2112]

Why do we bend over backwards in our tolerance of Muslims when they obviously don't recipricate?




What an ignorant dick.

why do we tolerate ignorant dicks in this country, when they obviously dont tolerate anyone else?

[DarrinS]

why don't you rent 2 billboards and put the klan on the other?


So, I suppose there are only two sides to this issue:


1) For it
2) Racism

[DarrinS]

What an ignorant dick.

why do we tolerate ignorant dicks in this country, when they obviously dont tolerate anyone else?


irony

[Oh, Gee!!]

Actually, I believe in separtion of church and state -- exactly the opposite of Sharia law.

so you're just throwing a hissy-fit. you're not expecting the local government to stop the construction?

[Marcus Bryant]

And the Constitution allows someone the freedom to express that they think the Constitution should be rewritten. </EOT.>

[Parker2112]

There are families of 9/11 victims against this mosque (Deborah Burlingame comes to mind). Do you think they are just bigoted rednecks?

Darrin S is!

[DarrinS]

so you're just throwing a hissy-fit. you're not expecting the local government to stop the construction?


There's nothing illegal about the construction of that mosque. I just think it's in bad taste.

[ElNono]

Do you think they think all Muslims are terrorists?

I don't.


If so, you are painting with a broad brush, like MB.

How's that?
You're the one directly associating a terrorist attack with a temple of religion.
Who's painting with the broad brush?


Do you think the Imam would mind if we put a large billboard with a cartoon of <name redacted -- peace be upon him>? Someone could legally rent the billboard. Wouldn't be very sensitive, would it?

Maybe he would. He might even have anti-discrimination laws to fight against it. I'm not sure what billboards have to do with a Mosque.
Would putting a Synagogue or a Christian church there bother you too?

[Oh, Gee!!]

There's nothing illegal about the construction of that mosque. I just think it's in bad taste.

right. you're having your period.

[DarrinS]

Darrin S is!


You really bring the strong stuff.

[coyotes_geek]

Why do we bend over backwards in our tolerance of Muslims when they obviously don't recipricate?

Because our founding fathers decided against making "The Golden Rule" a prerequisite for protection under the Bill of Rights.

[ElNono]

There's nothing illegal about the construction of that mosque. I just think it's in bad taste.



Would putting a Synagogue or a Christian church there bother you too?

[Parker2112]

So, I suppose there are only two sides to this issue:


1) For it
2) Racism

Your every word propogates ignorance. Truth, not insult. Racism stems from ignorance. Folks like you are the reason that the views above arise.

If there are other reasons to condemn this, you do them injustice with your "Why do we tolerate Muslims" speak.

Let your true feelings be known: Why do we tolerate blacks when they all hate me? Why do we tolerate Mexicans when they are lazy?

I'm sure your good for a few more...:lol

Ignorant fucking fool

[DarrinS]

right. you're having your period.


I can disagree with you guys without calling you: dicks, racists, fucking idiots, having a period, etc. I'm glad you guys are so tolerant of people with differences of opinion.

[clambake]

he's worked it out in that empty skull of his that the building of this mosque is a foundation for adopting sharia law.

[Oh, Gee!!]

I can disagree with you guys without calling you: dicks, racists, fucking idiots, having a period, etc. I'm glad you guys are so tolerant of people with differences of opinion.

now whose painting with a broad brush?

[DarrinS]

Would putting a Synagogue or a Christian church there bother you too?



If we were attacked by a bunch of Jews on 9/11, I wouldn't want a Synagogue there.

[clambake]

If we were attacked by a bunch of Jews on 9/11, I wouldn't want a Synagogue there.

bullshit.

[Spurminator]

Doesn't seem like we're bending over backwards at all. Quite the opposite, actually. We're letting the process work.

Bending over backwards would be something like, I don't know, lobbying to declare a random building on the site of the proposed mosque as a Landmark in a last ditch effort to block its construction.

[DarrinS]

now whose painting with a broad brush?

Actually, I'm using your (and others in this thread) exact words.

The OP asked for thoughts on the subject.

[ElNono]

So, I suppose there are only two sides to this issue:
1) For it
2) Racism

Not really, no.

I mean, I can understand somebody telling me that you don't want Ground Zero to be tied to any religion in particular, and you deem the Mosque to be too close. But under that argument, then it should apply to all religions, and I would ask what I already asked and has not been responded: What distance is not too close?

[Drachen]

There's nothing illegal about the construction of that mosque. I just think it's in bad taste.

Ok, I don't want to put words in your mouth so I am honestly asking.

You believe that construction of this Community Center should be allowed, you just don't like it, right?

[Spurminator]

If we were attacked by a bunch of Black Panthers I suppose you wouldn't want a jazz club nearby either?

[ElNono]

If we were attacked by a bunch of Jews on 9/11, I wouldn't want a Synagogue there.

Broad brush, we be paintin'

[ElNono]

If we were attacked by a bunch of Black Panthers I suppose you wouldn't want a jazz club nearby either?

:lmao

[Marcus Bryant]

If we were attacked by a bunch of Black Panthers I suppose you wouldn't want a jazz club nearby either?

:toast

[DarrinS]

Ok, I don't want to put words in your mouth so I am honestly asking.

You believe that construction of this Community Center should be allowed, you just don't like it, right?


Like I've said, it just strikes me as a bit insensitive.

[Parker2112]

Like I've said, it just strikes me as a bit insensitive.

Sort of like "Be intolerant to all Muslims?"

[Parker2112]

what an easy mark...

[Marcus Bryant]

So it's a non-issue.

[Marcus Bryant]

...yet one all about the ratings.

[Drachen]

Like I've said, it just strikes me as a bit insensitive.

ok, it seems like this post means you agree with the statement that I wrote.

I am ok with that.

I disagree with you, but as long as you are a supporter of their right to construct, I really have no problem with our difference of opinion.

(edit. i.e. our difference of opinion is a whole different issue than them constructing the Community Center)

[DarrinS]

Sort of like "Be intolerant to all Muslims?"

fail

[clambake]

gee, i wonder if there are american projects in japan.

that would be insensitive.

[Parker2112]

DarrinS: Drive Muslims Out!

[Parker2112]

fail

Why do we tolerate Muslims = Lets not tolerate muslims anymore = your an intolerant retard.

[Parker2112]

fail

Actually, I call that indisputable WIN! :king

[TeyshaBlue]

There are families of 9/11 victims against this mosque (Deborah Burlingame comes to mind). Do you think they are just bigoted rednecks?

You realize there are families in support of this mosque. Again, net 0.

[DarrinS]

Why do we tolerate Muslims = Lets not tolerate muslims anymore = your an intolerant retard.

fail

[TeyshaBlue]

So, I suppose there are only two sides to this issue:


1) For it
2) Racism

No.

1) For it.
2) Tolernace for an opposing viewpoint in light of the constitutional protections.
3) Asshattery protests.

[DarrinS]

You realize there are families in support of this mosque. Again, net 0.


I do. And I don't think they have any evil motives for their support. They just have a different opinion.

[DarrinS]

If you disagree with my side you are a racist asshat.




Ok

[Marcus Bryant]

Obviously we need to do away with the rule of law and give the people the power to change the Constitution whenever the evil Moslems try to get one over on us. Only then can we ensure that the one true America will remain pure and holy. What we also need is a permanent pure American leader who will determine what is pure Americanism and eradicate any foreign heresies from the land, except for gay Moslems who construct their buildings in fashions more pleasing to Darrin's tastes.

[DarrinS]

Obviously we need to do away with the rule of law and give the people the power to change the Constitution whenever the evil Moslems try to get one over on us. Only then can we ensure that the one true America will remain pure and holy. What we also need is a permanent pure American leader who will determine what is pure Americanism and eradicate any foreign heresies from the land, except for gay Moslems who construct their buildings in fashions more pleasing to Darrin's tastes.


And you guys accuse me of building strawmen.

I can't believe you wasted a few minutes on that tripe.

[ElNono]

Obviously we need to do away with the rule of law and give the people the power to change the Constitution whenever the evil Moslems try to get one over on us. Only then can we ensure that the one true America will remain pure and holy. What we also need is a permanent pure American leader who will determine what is pure Americanism and eradicate any foreign heresies from the land, except for gay Moslems who construct their buildings in fashions more pleasing to Darrin's tastes.

Don't forget the illegal brownies!!!

Well done Marcus, spoken like a true libertarian...

[Marcus Bryant]

And you guys accuse me of building strawmen.

I can't believe you wasted a few minutes on that tripe.

Eh, I'm mocking your ignorant ass.

[Winehole23]

I can't believe you wasted a few minutes on that tripe.I can believe it. You're that annoying.

[clambake]

And you guys accuse me of building strawmen.

I can't believe you wasted a few minutes on that tripe.

what about japan, darrin?

[Oh, Gee!!]

lay off him, guys. he's sensitive.

[DarrinS]

Don't forget the illegal brownies!!!




Is it possible to be pro-immigration and anti illegal-immigration?

[TeyshaBlue]

Ok

Look, I view this in the same light as some might view the Phelp's byzantinian construct of a church. It aint racism.

[ElNono]

Is it possible to be pro-immigration and anti illegal-immigration?

Sure

[TeyshaBlue]

Don't forget the illegal brownies!!!

Well done Marcus, spoken like a true libertarian...

Keep your hands off my fucking brownies!!!!!:ihit

[Marcus Bryant]

Further, we need to watch carefully all non-whites because their loyalties are suspect until proven otherwise. Besides, they tend to enjoy soccer, which is gay and European. But I repeat myself. We'll exclude the blacks, who are useful when we need to win international sporting events and for cleaning up after the one true Americans and other servant roles. You only watch them when they get uppity and somehow are elected president. Then you know all hell has broken loose because there is no way their heart has accepted the one true America. Of course we celebrate religious diversity, for I know a Presbyterian and a Lutheran. Oh heavens, I also know a Baptist. Only in true America.

[TeyshaBlue]

I'm pretty sure those Episcopalians need to be looked into.

[TeyshaBlue]

This thread is morphing into a "This Modern World" comic. That makes Baby Jesus cry.:depressed

[DarrinS]

Look, I view this in the same light as some might view the Phelp's byzantinian construct of a church. It aint racism.


I'm also against Phelps' ministries anti-gay protests at military funerals. I think holding up signs that say "Thank God for Dead Soldiers" and "God Hates Fags" are in extremely bad taste.

They do have a right to free speech.

Ok, pile on now.

[Marcus Bryant]

Hey, the country's going bankrupt.

[Parker2112]

Why do we bend over backwards in our tolerance of Muslims when they obviously don't recipricate?



US citizen fail. Intelligence fail. Trying-to-hide-my-biggotry fail. Logic fail. Let-one-slip-oh-shit fail. If-you-have-hate-in-your-heart-let-it-out fail.

Darrin=Fail.

[DarrinS]

I'm pretty sure those Episcopaleans need to be looked into.


If they were carrying out terrorist attacks for the past 40 years, absolutely.

[DarrinS]

US citizen fail. Intelligence fail. Trying-to-hide-my-biggotry fail. Logic fail. Let-one-slip-oh-shit fail. If-you-have-hate-in-your-heart-let-it-out fail.

Darrin=Fail.


Just don't draw a cartoon of <name redacted -- peace be upon him> or you might be killed.

[TeyshaBlue]

If they were carrying out terrorist attacks for the past 40 years, absolutely.

Well, those Episcopalians love them some Muslims, so we probably ought to just ship 'em to Gitmo.

[Parker2112]

Just don't draw a cartoon of <name redacted -- peace be upon him> or you might be killed.

I'll leave all that paranoia to folks like you. And ultimately, paranoia is the root of biggotry. So :toast

[ElNono]

If they were carrying out terrorist attacks for the past 40 years, absolutely.

Under that premise, and if we go by the contemporary definition of terrorism, then we should be looking pretty closely at all Americans.

[ElNono]

Maybe the vast majority of Americans are not terrorists.

[ElNono]

And maybe the same rationale apply to muslims...

[ElNono]

I don't know, just sayin'

[Parker2112]

HEY Darrin! Guess what?

http://www.bangitout.com/uploads/3kkkshabbat.jpg

[Marcus Bryant]

Americans were rather nonplussed about Sinn Fein back in the day. But scratch a Catholic and there's a dirty Mick terrorist underneath.

[ElNono]

Americans were rather nonplussed about Sinn Fein back in the day. But scratch a Catholic and there's a dirty Mick terrorist underneath.

You don't get it. We're the good guys!

[clambake]

Americans were rather nonplussed about Sinn Fein back in the day. But scratch a Catholic and there's a dirty Mick terrorist underneath.

:lol

[Marcus Bryant]

Some Americans even supported them.

We need to watch the Catholics and their Popist religion. And the priests are pervs too.

You can't be a true Murikan and pledge allegiance to Rome. We should revoke their citizenship as Constitutional scholar Wild Cobra once told me the 14th amendment forbids citizenship to those whose loyalties do not lie with the one true America.

[Marcus Bryant]

My God, could you imagine a Catholic president? The only thing worse would be a black one.

And some of those blacks are Moslems, and you know what that means.

[ElNono]

Does anybody know if the families of the Unabomber's victims receive snail mail?
Wouldn't that be in bad taste?
How about email?

[ElNono]

My God, could you imagine a Catholic president? The only thing worse would be a black one.

And some of those blacks are Moslems, and you know what that means.

Just stop. You're cracking me up... :lmao

[Marcus Bryant]

Does anybody know if the families of the Unabomber's victims receive snail mail?
Wouldn't that be in bad taste?
How about email?

Why does FedEx hate the one true America?

[George Gervin's Afro]

Actually, I believe in separtion of church and state -- exactly the opposite of Sharia law.

what does sharia law have to do with anything?

[Marcus Bryant]

We need to ban books except for those by true Murikan patriots whose loyalty to the one true America is without question due to their true American blood. For the enemies of one true America sometime use books to spread their anti-true America ideas. Non-pure American blood predisposes one to hate American instinctively, so these people need to be separated and monitored by the keepers of the one true America.

[clambake]

oliver north is safe.

[Marcus Bryant]

And we need to build a wall on the southern border of the homeland to keep out the swarthy brown Popists from invading us and taking our shit jobs and making us eat delicious greasy food and drink Dos Equis, Negra Modelo, and margaritas. And filling our stadiums to watch soccer. And they speak a language other than American. Plus they are brown and the terrorists who hate us because we are free are brown and you know what that means. Oh, and the president is black...

[Marcus Bryant]

Taco Cabana is part of the vast anti-America conspiracy.

[clambake]

i just realized that i fill my car with arab and venezuelan gas to go buy mexican food.

[Marcus Bryant]

You are a traitor to the one true America and should be executed.

[clambake]

Americans were rather nonplussed about Sinn Fein back in the day. But scratch a Catholic and there's a dirty Mick terrorist underneath.


You are a traitor to the one true America and should be executed.

i've been exposed.

[Drachen]

And we need to build a wall on the southern border of the homeland to keep out the swarthy brown Popists from invading us and taking our shit jobs and making us eat delicious greasy food and drink Dos Equis, Negra Modelo, and margaritas. And filling our stadiums to watch soccer. And they speak a language other than American. Plus they are brown and the terrorists who hate us because we are free are brown and you know what that means. Oh, and the president is black...

I think Dos Equis and Margaritas are safe. Dos Equis is owned by the dutch (heineken) and that frozen concoction that helps me hang on was invented by a white woman entertaining guests on her yacht.

[Marcus Bryant]

Those are lies spread by the Moslems who hate us because we're free.

[Ignignokt]

I think the builders of the mosque should have the right to build near ground zero so long as it is not municipal land.

having said that, I think the mosque is a slap in the face by those owners to people who were affected by 911.

[George Gervin's Afro]

I think the builders of the mosque should have the right to build near ground zero so long as it is not municipal land.

having said that, I think the mosque is a slap in the face by those owners to people who were affected by 911.

why is this a slap in the face?

[DarrinS]

To answer clambake's question from earlier in the thread, I don't think there are any statues of J. Robert Oppenheimer at the Hiroshima Peace Memorial Park.

[George Gervin's Afro]

To answer clambake's question from earlier in the thread, I don't think there are any statues of J. Robert Oppenheimer at the Hiroshima Peace Memorial Park.

what does sharia law have to do with this issue?

[clambake]

i think every sand dune in america is a slap in the face.

[Oh, Gee!!]

To answer clambake's question from earlier in the thread, I don't think there are any statues of J. Robert Oppenheimer at the Hiroshima Peace Memorial Park.

so move to japan

[Marcus Bryant]

So listen to your true American corps member DarrinS and help him defeat the dirty Moslems here on the internets, to make America free once again for the one true Americans.

[Winehole23]

Muslims didn't invent terrorism, brainiac.

[DarrinS]

what does sharia law have to do with this issue?

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf

"Throughout my discussions with contemporary Muslim theologians, it is clear an Islamic state can be established in more than just a single form or mold. It can be established through a kingdom or a democracy. The important issue is to establish the general fundamentals of Sharia that are required to govern".

[clambake]

To answer clambake's question from earlier in the thread, I don't think there are any statues of J. Robert Oppenheimer at the Hiroshima Peace Memorial Park.

what does he have to do with the incineration from a christian state?

[Marcus Bryant]

How valiant and brave is he!

[George Gervin's Afro]

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf

"Throughout my discussions with contemporary Muslim theologians, it is clear an Islamic state can be established in more than just a single form or mold. It can be established through a kingdom or a democracy. The important issue is to establish the general fundamentals of Sharia that are required to govern".

so what? Is this guy running for office? who cares what his opinion is?

other than the right wing alarmists nobody cares..

[ElNono]

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf

"Throughout my discussions with contemporary Muslim theologians, it is clear an Islamic state can be established in more than just a single form or mold. It can be established through a kingdom or a democracy. The important issue is to establish the general fundamentals of Sharia that are required to govern".

You're free not to vote for him if and when he runs for office...

Do you think NY will adopt Sharia law if the Mosque is built?

[Marcus Bryant]

You're free not to vote for him if and when he runs for office...

Do you think NY will adopt Sharia law if the Mosque is built?

Most likely, for New York is known by true Americans as Western France.

[ElNono]

Most likely, for New York is known by true Americans as Western France.

Hey now! :nope

:lol

[Marcus Bryant]

They drink gay drinks in France, like wine, and gay porn is on public TV all the time there too.

[mookie2001]

I have no problem with it, if it had been christian terrorists, the site would already be a Burlington Coat Church by now

[ElNono]

Maybe we should waterboard the Imam to see if he knows something...

[TeyshaBlue]

And we need to build a wall on the southern border of the homeland to keep out the swarthy brown Popists from invading us and taking our shit jobs and making us eat delicious greasy food and drink Dos Equis, Negra Modelo, and margaritas. And filling our stadiums to watch soccer. And they speak a language other than American. Plus they are brown and the terrorists who hate us because we are free are brown and you know what that means. Oh, and the president is black...

A motion is made to issue a special dispensation for Negra Modelo. It's tasty.

[DarrinS]

I guess the real estate in Manhattan is so dirt cheap that the Imam just had no choice but to build his jihad recruiting center there.

[TeyshaBlue]

Imam Feisal Abdul Rauf

"Throughout my discussions with contemporary Muslim theologians, it is clear an Islamic state can be established in more than just a single form or mold. It can be established through a kingdom or a democracy. The important issue is to establish the general fundamentals of Sharia that are required to govern".

“The Constitution of the United States, for instance, is a marvelous document for self-government by the Christian people. But the minute you turn the document into the hands of non-Christian people and atheistic people they can use it to destroy the very foundation of our society. And that’s what’s been happening.” Pat Robertson.

What's yer point?

[ElNono]

I guess the real estate in Manhattan is so dirt cheap that the Imam just had no choice but to build his jihad recruiting center there.

Who's painting with the large brush now?

[ElNono]

Should we ban Christian churches too, with the pedophile priests and what not?

Who is going to protect the children?

[Oh, Gee!!]

Who's painting with the large brush now?

you give him too much credit. he probably heard one of his talk radio gods make the comment. he's just repeating what he hears.

[ElNono]

you give him too much credit. he probably heard one of his talk radio gods make the comment. he's just repeating what he hears.

This is a guy who was preaching tolerance 3 pages ago.

[Nash2TimeMVp]

wtf cares man i heard theres gonna be a swimming pool and gym anybody can use for free im down fuck it

[Spurminator]

To answer clambake's question from earlier in the thread, I don't think there are any statues of J. Robert Oppenheimer at the Hiroshima Peace Memorial Park.

This analogy will be less nonsensical when someone proposes a statue of Mohammed Atta or Osama bin Laden in the area.

[DarrinS]

This analogy will be less nonsensical when someone proposes a statue of Mohammed Atta or Osama bin Laden in the area.


It was nonsensical to bring up Japan in the first place, but I didn't do that -- see clambake.

[DarrinS]

Banning US military recruiters from Harvard = Good

Being against a 100 million dollar mosque at Ground Zero = racist, islamophobic, etc.

[MannyIsGod]

It must really piss Darrin off no one went with his bullshit in this thread. Where is WC when you need him, Darrin?

[Marcus Bryant]

To answer clambake's question from earlier in the thread, I don't think there are any statues of J. Robert Oppenheimer at the Hiroshima Peace Memorial Park.


In the name of....


http://www.jornal.us/pictures/26867983_Ronald-Reagan.jpg

the Father,


http://www.damonchernavsky.com/Pictures/Pictures_Of_US_Presidents/George-W-Bush.jpg

Son,


http://www.treehugger.com/rush-limbaugh-oil-spill.jpg

and Holy Ghost. Amen.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm enjoying the recent surge of Marcus Bryant posts. Like Winehole, I often disagree but at least people like them don't buy into bullshit.

[DarrinS]

It must really piss Darrin off no one went with his bullshit in this thread. Where is WC when you need him, Darrin?


I don't mind standing alone. I don't need to be part of the circle-jerk group think. Had I not entered this thread, it would be nothing but you guys stroking each other about how righteous and tolerant you are.

[Marcus Bryant]

Ah, the true American martyr.

[DarrinS]

Ah, the true American martyr.


Are you and winehole a couple? Just curious.

Anyway, I appreciate you not being so verbose for once.

[ElNono]

Banning US military recruiters from Harvard = Good

Being against a 100 million dollar mosque at Ground Zero = racist, islamophobic, etc.

Would a 2 million dollar mosque be ok?

[Marcus Bryant]

Eye downt knoe. Duhs Wylde Kobra ewes Astroglide or KY when hee kornholez yew?

[TeyshaBlue]

I don't mind standing alone. I don't need to be part of the circle-jerk group think. Had I not entered this country, it would be nothing but you guys stroking each other about how righteous and tolerant you are.

FIFY:lmao

[ElNono]

Banning US military recruiters from Harvard = Good

Being against a 100 million dollar mosque at Ground Zero = racist, islamophobic, etc.

Would allowing the US military to recruit from Harvard make the construction of the Mosque near Ground Zero ok?

[Marcus Bryant]

Are you and winehole a couple? Just curious.



Nah man. Can't help your gay cruising self there.

[DarrinS]

Would a 2 million dollar mosque be ok?


Why does it have to be at that location?

[Marcus Bryant]

Would allowing the US military to recruit from Harvard make the construction of the Mosque near Ground Zero ok?

Harvard. Qed.

The true American has made his point.

[MannyIsGod]

I don't mind standing alone. I don't need to be part of the circle-jerk group think. Had I not entered this thread, it would be nothing but you guys stroking each other about how righteous and tolerant you are.

I love how you create burden you carry. Oh, DarrinS fighting the good fight against the wrongs Spurstalk posters hold against the world!

[MannyIsGod]

Why does it have to be at that location?

Because they want it to be. Why does it matter?

[ElNono]

Why does it have to be at that location?

So your argument was a complete strawman.

It has to be at that location because that's where the Imam bought the property, obviously. Why can't it be on that location?

[ElNono]

Qed.

Please, no latin in this forum. That's gay stuff from France...

[DarrinS]

Would allowing the US military to recruit from Harvard make the construction of the Mosque near Ground Zero ok?


The US military CAN recuit on Harvard campus because the SCOTUS shot down Kagan, unanimously.

[Ignignokt]

Ah, the true American martyr.

Like me board liberals, Like me!!

[MannyIsGod]

So then the Mosque is ok.

Thanks.

[DarrinS]

So your argument was a complete strawman.

It has to be at that location because that's where the Imam bought the property, obviously. Why can't it be on that location?


You honestly don't know why anyone would be offended by a 100 million dollar mega mosque being built at that location?

[CosmicCowboy]

Let them build it then fly an Iranian airliner into it.

[ElNono]

The US military CAN recuit on Harvard campus because the SCOTUS shot down Kagan, unanimously.

So what's your point, and how does it has anything to do with building a religious temple?

[ElNono]

You honestly don't know why anyone would be offended by a 100 million dollar mega mosque being built at that location?

Would you object if it was a 2 million dollar mini mosque?
Or size has nothing to do with it?

[DarrinS]

So what's your point, and how does it has anything to do with building a religious temple?


Just pointing out hypocrisy of the left.

[ElNono]

Just pointing out hypocrisy of the left.

So it has nothing to do with it.

[TeyshaBlue]

Just pointing out hypocrisy of the left.

Such as.....

[Ignignokt]

So your argument was a complete strawman.

It has to be at that location because that's where the Imam bought the property, obviously. Why can't it be on that location?

And he has the right, but do you think the imam just bought it just because? Or do you think that there may be an underlying statement he wants to make to other muslims around the world.

I mean, I'm not going to force him out, but it's my right to call this whole thing as abrasive.

[DarrinS]

Would you object if it was a 2 million dollar mini mosque?
Or size has nothing to do with it?


I don't think that site is an ideal place for a mosque.

[ElNono]

And he has the right, but do you think the imam just bought it just because? Or do you think that there may be an underlying statement he wants to make to other muslims around the world.

I mean, I'm not going to force him out, but it's my right to call this whole thing as abrasive.

Plenty of mosques and muslims in the US. If there was a point to be made about their religion, they already have.

That doesn't mean all muslims are radicals or all mosques are terrorist breeding grounds, as implied by Mr DarrinS

[TeyshaBlue]

And he has the right, but do you think the imam just bought it just because? Or do you think that there may be an underlying statement he wants to make to other muslims around the world.

I mean, I'm not going to force him out, but it's my right to call this whole thing as abrasive.

And that's a fairly reasonable response. Apparently, it is abrasive otherwise we wouldnt be having this discussion. He may very well be making a statement. I can think of either a really good one and a really evil one. But thinking it doesn't make it exist.

[Ignignokt]

I love how you create burden you carry. Oh, DarrinS fighting the good fight against the wrongs Spurstalk posters hold against the world!

Don't congratulate him, you don't have to feel sorry about your self congratulatory fun in this thread before people came in here to spoil it.

[MannyIsGod]

Personally, I think it would be cool if they put the Mosque up and a Christian church right next to it and had both perform many unity services.

[Drachen]

The US military CAN recuit on Harvard campus because the SCOTUS shot down Kagan, unanimously.

Sooooo then you are saying rule of law works and is a good thing?

[ElNono]

I don't think that site is an ideal place for a mosque.

Why is that?

[MannyIsGod]

Don't congratulate him, you don't have to feel sorry about your self congratulatory fun in this thread before people came in here to spoil it.

On the contrary, Darrin posts in nearly every thread lead to fun.

[Drachen]

Why does it have to be at that location?

because the own that land. Pretty simple actually.

[Spurminator]

You honestly don't know why anyone would be offended by a 100 million dollar mega mosque being built at that location?

I know why. Prejudice.

That's the answer. There's really no way around it, Darrin. You may not think of yourself as prejudiced but there is no other possible reason for trying to block a worship center for a religion practiced by over 1 billion people over the fact that 19 of that religion's followers, with the support of a foreign terrorist group, attacked an area nearby.

Connecting the actions of an extreme few to the religious practice of a billion others is the very definition of prejudice.

[TeyshaBlue]

Personally, I think it would be cool if they put the Mosque up and a Christian church right next to it and had both perform many unity services.

Those sneaky Episcopalians do that very thing.

[Marcus Bryant]

Like me board liberals, Like me!!

One who dares to critique a putative "conservative" such as Darrin is automatically a leftist or attempting to curry favor. You're another worthless moron who's helped to destroy the American right.

[ElNono]

I know why. Prejudice.

Basically.

[Ignignokt]

And that's a fairly reasonable response. Apparently, it is abrasive otherwise we wouldnt be having this discussion. He may very well be making a statement. I can think of either a really good one and a really evil one. But thinking it doesn't make it exist.

This is not a court of law, do you need actual statements or records to see that? Do you think he'd say those things in public to risk his property? Or can we go by the historical practice of Islam of always wanting to be abrasive towards their opponents. I mean these are the same guys who built mosques and veneration sites over jewish and christian ones. The same people who claimed jerusalem was a holy site only when the christians sought it even tho jerusalem had no importance to mohammed.

[Ignignokt]

One who dares to critique a putative "conservative" such as Darrin is automatically a leftist or attempting to curry favor. You're another worthless moron who's helped to destroy the American right.

If this american right sees the return to fake balanced budgets due to borrowing money from lock boxes and interventions in the balklands, tech bubbles, and loose Fed reserve policy, as the pinnacle of American policy they too can go fuck themselves.

[TeyshaBlue]

This is not a court of law, do you need actual statements or records to see that? Do you think he'd say those things in public to risk his property? Or can we go by the historical practice of Islam of always wanting to be abrasive towards their opponents. I mean these are the same guys who built mosques and veneration sites over jewish and christian ones. The same people who claimed jerusalem was a holy site only when the christians sought it even tho jerusalem had no importance to mohammed.

There is a Mosque not 4 blocks from my house. I've yet to be abraded. It was built about 4 years ago. I live in DFW, Redneck-land. Yet when it was announced, there was a huge lack of response by the surrounding neighborhoods. There was no projection of veneration sites nor shades of Jerusalem strife when it was built. Nor is there in this newest site in NY.
I guess there are some sites that fit your description, but let's leave the descriptors with them.

[Ignignokt]

One who dares to critique a putative "conservative" such as Darrin is automatically a leftist or attempting to curry favor. You're another worthless moron who's helped to destroy the American right.

Besides, you're not merely critiquing, you're being a total praise seeking bitch by calling names, baiting, and mocking those ideological brethrenwho may have a wrong point of view, how does that help the american right?

Being total drama queens is not the way to go.

[Ignignokt]

There is a Mosque not 4 blocks from my house. I've yet to be abraded. It was built about 4 years ago. I live in DFW, Redneck-land. Yet when it was announced, there was a huge lack of response by the surrounding neighborhoods. There was no projection of veneration sites nor shades of Jerusalem strife when it was built. Nor is there in this newest site in NY.
I guess there are some sites that fit your description, but let's leave the descriptors with them.

So are you saying that Mine and darrin's argument is that mosque shoudn't be built anywhere?

[Marcus Bryant]

If this american right sees the return to fake balanced budgets due to borrowing money from lock boxes and interventions in the balklands, tech bubbles, and loose Fed reserve policy, as the pinnacle of American policy they too can go fuck themselves.

Right. True conservatism is running bigger deficits, starting bigger wars, creating new entitlements, pissing on the Constitution, and giving a $700 billion blank check to the financial services firms.

[TeyshaBlue]

So are you saying that Mine and darrin's argument is that mosque shoudn't be built anywhere?

Nope. I'm saying the very act of building a mosque does not bring down all the descriptors you assigned to them earlier.

[Ignignokt]

Nope. I'm saying the very act of building a mosque does not bring down all the descriptors you assigned to them earlier.

Are we arguing the mere act of building a mosque?

I think you're missing 80 percent of the description of the argument.

[ElNono]

How could you argue it would be ok to build a church or a synagogue there but not a mosque, and then claim you're not discriminating?

[Ignignokt]

Right. True conservatism is running bigger deficits, starting bigger wars, creating new entitlements, pissing on the Constitution, and giving a $700 billion blank check to the financial services firms.

Lol False choice.

I don't want to return to Bush II, but you were the one yearning to return back to the 90's.

[Marcus Bryant]

Besides, you're not merely critiquing, you're being a total praise seeking bitch by calling names, baiting, and mocking those ideological brethrenwho may have a wrong point of view, how does that help the american right?

Being total drama queens is not the way to go.

The right has been destroyed by those I mock.

[TeyshaBlue]

Are we arguing the mere act of building a mosque?

I think you're missing 80 percent of the description of the argument.

Possible. I'm trying to debug a VB script while I'm reading this thread.:lol

I get what you're saying. The location is what's driving the problem. I can appreciate that, but that arguement also attributes motives to the Iman that we simply don't know.

[Marcus Bryant]

Lol False choice.

How so? At some point "conservatives" have to own up to the reality of American federal governance circa January 2001 through January 2007.

[Ignignokt]

How could you argue it would be ok to build a church or a synagogue there but not a mosque, and then claim you're not discriminating?

It's more complex than that. And don't be so thick headed. Wouldn't you see it wrong to build a church near a holy site dear to the muslims? I would. But that scenario is not the same as the NYC one. Ground zero is not a religous site, i see, but too many people Islam seems to have been a reason why that site is the way it is currently.

Plus the terrorist were not jews or christians. They were muslims.

[Ignignokt]

How so? At some point "conservatives" have to own up to the reality of American federal governance circa January 2001 through January 2007.

It's a false choice you've given me. I never said i'd like to return to that age of stupid governance.

When you pair one stupid act (Bush II) against the other (Clinton), stupidy still wins. That's your contribution to the american right.

[Ignignokt]

The right has been destroyed by those I mock.

thank u crusader!

[Marcus Bryant]

It's a false choice you've given me. I never said i'd like to return to that age of stupid governance.

When you pair one stupid act (Bush II) against the other (Clinton), stupidy still wins. That's your contribution to the american right.

You have no problem defending it. And the age of Clinton and the congressional GOP (1994-2001) looks golden compared "that age of stupid governance."

[ElNono]

It's more complex than that. And don't be so thick headed. Wouldn't you see it wrong to build a church near a holy site dear to the muslims? I would. But that scenario is not the same as the NYC one.

In America? I wouldn't, but yeah, not really the same scenario.



Ground zero is not a religous site, i see, but too many people Islam seems to have been a reason why that site is the way it is currently. Plus the terrorist were not jews or christians. They were muslims.

Too many Islam people? How many? What percentage out of the total Islam population?

The terrorists were extremists. There are those in all religions, and in all countries. Be it religiously motivated or politically motivated, or whatever else.

There's absolutely no argument there at all, IMO. We either are tolerant of all religions or we're not. The constitution is pretty clear on this.

[Ignignokt]

Possible. I'm trying to debug a VB script while I'm reading this thread.:lol

I get what you're saying. The location is what's driving the problem. I can appreciate that, but that arguement also attributes motives to the Iman that we simply don't know.

Well, besides the fact, we know that the Imam does know the sensitivity of his act and he's brazenly doing it, (which as a defender of property rights I support) so to say that the Imam is coy about this thing and that he's twiddle deeing this whole thing is dishonest. It's not wrong to bring up the issue.

[Marcus Bryant]

And stop trying to curry leftist favor by posting mean things about the great and true American leader.

[DarrinS]

From Thomas Friedman's Op Ed:





I greatly respect the feelings of those who lost loved ones on 9/11 — which was perpetrated in the name of Islam — and who oppose this project. Personally, if I had $100 million to build a mosque that promotes interfaith tolerance, I would not build it in Manhattan. I’d build it in Saudi Arabia or Pakistan. That is where 9/11 came from, and those are the countries that espouse the most puritanical version of Sunni Islam — a version that shows little tolerance not only for other religions but for other strands of Islam, particularly Shiite, Sufi and Ahmadiyya Islam. You can study Islam at virtually any American university, but you can’t even build a one-room church in Saudi Arabia.



I guess he's a racist and bigot.


He then goes on to say





That resistance to diversity, though, is not something we want to emulate, which is why I’m glad the mosque was approved on Tuesday. Countries that choke themselves off from exposure to different cultures, faiths and ideas will never invent the next Google or a cancer cure, let alone export a musical or body of literature that would bring enjoyment to children everywhere.



Does he know that Google WAS invented here?





When we tell the world, “Yes, we are a country that will even tolerate a mosque near the site of 9/11,” we send such a powerful message of inclusion and openness. It is shocking to other nations. But you never know who out there is hearing that message and saying: “What a remarkable country! I want to live in that melting pot, even if I have to build a boat from milk cartons to get there.” As long as that happens, Silicon Valley will be Silicon Valley, Hollywood will be Hollywood, Broadway will be Broadway, and America, if we ever get our politics and schools fixed, will be O.K.




<sigh>

[Drachen]

Should we disallow anyone right of center to build/buy a house near an abortion clinic?

Or how about former military snipers to live in the same city as a public university?

[Marcus Bryant]

Does he know that Google WAS invented here?

Do you?

[ElNono]

So you want to be like Saudi Arabia or Pakistan?

Is that who we're trying to emulate here?

[DarrinS]

So you want to be like Saudi Arabia or Pakistan?

Is that who we're trying to emulate here?


Denying them that particular building site would make us just like Saudi Arabi and Pakistan.

See, I can post straw too.

[DarrinS]

Should we disallow anyone right of center to build/buy a house near an abortion clinic?

Or how about former military snipers to live in the same city as a public university?



Why not build a huge gun shop across from Columbine High School?

I'm sure there are zoning laws to prevent that.

[ElNono]

Denying them that particular building site would make us just like Saudi Arabi and Pakistan.

See, I can post straw too.

Isn't that what the article you posted was pointing out? How intolerant Pakistan and Saudi Arabia are when it comes to denying building certain temples?

You brought the topic, not me.

[ElNono]

Why not build a huge gun shop across from Columbine High School?

I'm sure there are zoning laws to prevent that.

Yeah, kids and guns are not a good mix.

I guess Islamists and real Americans are not a good mix either?

[DarrinS]

Yeah, kids and guns are not a good mix.

I guess Islamists and real Americans are not a good mix either?


Islamists are lovely, peaceful people. Unless you get caught watching world cup soccer or playing a musical instrument.


It's weird that they are against soccer, but enjoy themselves a good stoning.

[Drachen]

Why not build a huge gun shop across from Columbine High School?

I'm sure there are zoning laws to prevent that.

Once again, rule of law. If we zoned it so 1 certain gun shop couldn't build near schools and the rest could, then that would more closely resemble this arguement and I would say that it is wrong.

If NY or the US passes a law that says no places of worship near sites of former terrorist attacks then so be it. I would not agree but at least it is equal.

[Marcus Bryant]

Hey, Thomas Jefferson had a copy of the Koran in his library and rewrote the Bible to exclude Christ's divinity.

[ElNono]

Islamists are lovely, peaceful people. Unless you get caught watching world cup soccer or playing a musical instrument.

Does that describe the vast majority of Muslims, or merely the sheer volume of your ignorance?


It's weird that they are against soccer, but enjoy themselves a good stoning.

I know many Islamists that enjoy soccer. As a matter of fact, most of the countries with Islam as the primary religion compete in FIFA tournaments.
But don't let facts get in the way of your bigotry...

[Drachen]

Hey, Thomas Jefferson had a copy of the Koran in his library and rewrote the Bible to exclude Christ's divinity.

even at a stretch i can't see how this has anything to do with the discussion.

[DarrinS]

Does that describe the vast majority of Muslims, or merely the sheer volume of your ignorance?



I know many Islamists that enjoy soccer. As a matter of fact, most of the countries with Islam as the primary religion compete in FIFA tournaments.
But don't let facts get in the way of your bigotry...


Are you really meaning to use the term "Islamists"?

[Marcus Bryant]

even at a stretch i can't see how this has anything to do with the discussion.

Just an observation about one of the individuals who helped to create the place.

[Drachen]

Just an observation about one of the individuals who helped to create the place.


Just seems odd, I could see it if someone said "You know the founding fathers hated Muslims too. They advocated the destruction of all Muslim items."

[Marcus Bryant]

OK, then the founders weren't the Southern Baptists they're made out to be today. It is clear that while, yes, a good number were Christians, that the framework for governance they created was to create a society in which a wide variety of religious belief could be held and practiced (as well as none at all). To Darrin's notion that this country wasn't founded on that ideal, but is rather being pushed to embrace it by "liberals" is a point worth addressing.

[ElNono]

Are you really meaning to use the term "Islamists"?

I'm sorry. I use Muslims and Islamist interchangeably. Are they not?

[spursncowboys]

Im not sure about NY city regs. Will the mosque be allowed to have their prayers through a speaker system? I think that if they want to pay for it and the owners want to lease/sell it to them, what does it matter?

I do think it is a valid point that if enemies (not saying this imam who may have sent money to a terrorist org is an enemie) try to use our freedoms to create propaganda, what would we do? What could we do? Should we so to speak sell the rope that hangs ourselves? If someone has a muslim church which has, in the past, funded an enemy of the state be able to do this? Not saying he has. Really I haven't paid any attention to this story.

[spursncowboys]

OK, then the founders weren't the Southern Baptists they're made out to be today. It is clear that while, yes, a good number were Christians, that the framework for governance they created was to create a society in which a wide variety of religious belief could be held and practiced (as well as none at all). To Darrin's notion that this country wasn't founded on that ideal, but is rather being pushed to embrace it by "liberals" is a point worth addressing.
Is there any real writing to make this truthful?

[jack sommerset]

Feisal Abdul Rauf, you know the guy who wants to build the mosque where muslim terroist killed 3,000 innocent americans says the United States was "an accessory to the crime" in the 9/11 attacks and is sympathetic to terrorist groups like Hamas. The mosque is being built 2 blocks from ground zero to honor the muslims terrorist. Book it.

LOL@ bringing people together. You people defending this guy are straight up dumbasses and/or could careless about america and those who were killed there.

[Drachen]

Im not sure about NY city regs. Will the mosque be allowed to have their prayers through a speaker system? I think that if they want to pay for it and the owners want to lease/sell it to them, what does it matter?

I do think it is a valid point that if enemies (not saying this imam who may have sent money to a terrorist org is an enemie) try to use our freedoms to create propaganda, what would we do? What could we do? Should we so to speak sell the rope that hangs ourselves? If someone has a muslim church which has, in the past, funded an enemy of the state be able to do this? Not saying he has. Really I haven't paid any attention to this story.

Just a quick clarification, they already own the land and have for years. They have been using the current building for prayer service for years too.

[Ignignokt]

You have no problem defending it. And the age of Clinton and the congressional GOP (1994-2001) looks golden compared "that age of stupid governance."

You're a thick headed dumbfuck, in no way was i defending bush. I just wont give credit to clinton for a false boom.

[Ignignokt]

In America? I wouldn't, but yeah, not really the same scenario.




Too many Islam people? How many? What percentage out of the total Islam population?

The terrorists were extremists. There are those in all religions, and in all countries. Be it religiously motivated or politically motivated, or whatever else.

There's absolutely no argument there at all, IMO. We either are tolerant of all religions or we're not. The constitution is pretty clear on this.

Please comeback with the correct argument, i'm not advocating banning them from building mosques near ground zero.

Also, please reread the constitution, the constitution allows us to worship freely, it does not force us to be tolerant.

RIF

[Ignignokt]

OK, then the founders weren't the Southern Baptists they're made out to be today. It is clear that while, yes, a good number were Christians, that the framework for governance they created was to create a society in which a wide variety of religious belief could be held and practiced (as well as none at all). To Darrin's notion that this country wasn't founded on that ideal, but is rather being pushed to embrace it by "liberals" is a point worth addressing.

Nice strawman.

[TeyshaBlue]

Please comeback with the correct argument, i'm not advocating banning them from building mosques near ground zero.

Also, please reread the constitution, the constitution allows us to worship freely, it does not force us to be tolerant.

RIF

Odd. Doesn't the very concept of free worship imply tolerance?

[clambake]

Odd. Doesn't the very concept of free worship imply tolerance?

yes

[Ignignokt]

Odd. Doesn't the very concept of free worship imply tolerance?

No.

If the context of tolerance is to not condemn any practice as a private citizen.

[Ignignokt]

The constitution does not legislate thought crimes.

[Drachen]

Feisal Abdul Rauf, you know the guy who wants to build the mosque where muslim terroist killed 3,000 innocent americans says the United States was "an accessory to the crime" in the 9/11 attacks and is sympathetic to terrorist groups like Hamas. The mosque is being built 2 blocks from ground zero to honor the muslims terrorist. Book it.

LOL@ bringing people together. You people defending this guy are straight up dumbasses and/or could careless about america and those who were killed there.

I know I won't get through to you of all people, and I won't get an intelligent, well thought out take out of you. However . . .

Did he commit a crime? Was he convicted of that crime? I don't care if the pool at this new community center is "members only" (muslim only) or if it is supposed to be open to all in the spirit of togetherness. The point is that the land is already owned by this group, and should be able to build this on THEIR land as long as it doesn't break any laws.

You wouldn't say that anyone associated with the petrochemical industry should be banned from going anywhere within "a couple of blocks" of the beach would you?

[clambake]

No.

If the context of tolerance is to not condemn any practice as a private citizen.

so , they're free to practice their religion.......in the dark basements of their homes.

[Drachen]

The constitution does not legislate thought crimes.

Good quote. I like this. So what the imam said about the US having a role in the 911 attacks doesn't really matter either. (unless he commits a crime)