What about the Pheonix Suns?

[mfanatic]

I know they lost Amare, but the Suns to me, look like they put a pretty interesting team together. Let me be the first to say that their defense is probably going to suck like always, but the offensive firepower and mismatches they can put together is pretty insane. My favorite lineup for the Suns would be something like:

Steve Nash (6'3)
Josh Childress (6'8)
Grant Hill (6'8)
Hedo Turkoglu (6'10)
Brook Lopez (7')

IMO, that should be their starting 5 with Dragic, Richardson, Dudley, Warrick and Frye as their second unit.

I'm not a Suns fan by any means, but that should be one hell of a fun lineup.

[BRHornet45]

Phoenix Suns son

[slick'81]

um thats robin not brook

[Venti Quattro]

J Rich will start at the two and not Childress.

[Red Hawk #21]

If you plan on playing Chillz at the 2 then you have to have a 3 who's a great shooter, because Chillz can't shoot. Most likely though, the Suns are starting him at the 3 or making him their 6th Man.

[SomeCallMeTim]

I know they lost Amare, but the Suns to me, look like they put a pretty interesting team together. Let me be the first to say that their defense is probably going to suck like always, but the offensive firepower and mismatches they can put together is pretty insane. My favorite lineup for the Suns would be something like:

Steve Nash (6'3)
Josh Childress (6'8)
Grant Hill (6'8)
Hedo Turkoglu (6'10)
Brook Lopez (7')

IMO, that should be their starting 5 with Dragic, Richardson, Dudley, Warrick and Frye as their second unit.

I'm not a Suns fan by any means, but that should be one hell of a fun lineup.

Childress was a great and very underrated pickup for them. They will not be a bad team.

If they would've gotten David Lee then most of the Western Conference would really have to worry about them.

As it is I don't see them being too much of a factor but I think it's likely they make the playoffs.

[Venti Quattro]

They can probably make it as a 4 or 5 seed in the playoffs.

[Cane]

Imo they're going to struggle to get a low seed and could miss out on the playoffs. Losing Amar'e was a huge hit since he was playing like the best big man in the league for the second half of the regular season; he's also instant and efficient offense with a ton of chemistry and experience with the team. Then there's Lopez who ran into back problems which simply sucks ass for a big man but hopefully its not an ongoing issue. Steve Nash also had a great season but I think losing Amar'e will not only hurt enough of his production to make a noticeable difference but intangibles like overall attitude, similar to the Terry Porter days.

[DJ Mbenga]

if you are satisfied as a playoff contender then have at it. this team have a 0% chance at winning a title

[Red Hawk #21]

if you are satisfied as a playoff contender then have at it. this team have a 0% chance at winning a title

Theoretically speaking, there is no team in the league that has a "0%" chance of winning a title. The goddamned T-Puppies could win a title, it's just that the chance of that happening is very low. But there is always a chance...

[hipcoolster]

I think the Suns best lineup is Nash-Rich-Hedo-Frye-Lopez. It is very reminiscent of the 09' Magic's lineup that gave LeBron and co. so much trouble due their overwhelming size: Alston-Lee-Hedo-Lewis-Howard.

[Darrin]

Horrible team. They won't make the playoffs. Jason Richardson will be their best player and I cannot imagine Josh Childress starting over him.

[Giuseppe]

O & 43!

[ezau]

O & 43!

and beyond!

[MiamiHeat]

Gotta suck to be a Suns fan

out of the handful of elite teams out West, the suns only one that didn't play a single finals game.

Spurs, Mavericks, Lakers, all made it

and now the run is over pretty much. 0 finals appearances

[Ashy Larry]

they'll make the playoffs and more than likely be in the bottom half of the bracket ......

[hipcoolster]

they'll make the playoffs and more than likely be in the bottom half of the bracket ......

Agreed, the Suns are a poor mans 09' Magic

Nash-Rich-Hedo-Frye-Lopez is close to Alston-Lee-Hedo-Lewis-Howard

The Suns got a better PG with Nash, better bench, lacking in the dominant center, and Lewis could shoot the ball in any stadium while Frye is only useful at home (even that is iffy)

In fact I think I would take this years Suns over that Magic team that made it to the Finals. Now the Suns have the same overwhelming quality that lead the MAgic over the Cavs, but with a top 5 PG and deeper bench.

[Giuseppe]

& If Hedo is 6'10" I'm a pedo.

[hater]

Grant Hill is a dinosaur

[Brazil]

Brook Lopez (7')



if it was really Brook then indeed suns would look good:lol

[picc84]

Congrats on acquiring Hedo as a spot-up shooter in the Nash offense.

This team won't be in the paint once this season. Lakers will average 100 rebounds/game.

[8FOR!3]

LOL at starting three Small Forwards. Childress, Hill, Hedo. Also, I'm fairly sure Hedo is indeed 6'10, I'm also really surprised nobody has called you out on the fact that Brook Lopez doesn't play for thim. They wish he did. ROBIN Lopez on the other hand will be starting I'm sure. The Suns might have a fun team, but they're gonna suck. If they still had Amar'e AND Brook Lopez instead of Robin, then I would say the additions of Turkoglu, Childress, and Warrick were enough to make them a big time contender.

[Giuseppe]

"Also, I'm fairly sure Hedo is indeed 6'10"

My ass.

[ezau]

Where are the Suns fans?

[Cane]

Where are the Suns fans?

The ones around here seemed more like Amar'e fans tbh.

[sribb43]

Might translate to a nice team to run with in NBA 2k

[Dunc n Dave]

Gotta suck to be a Suns fan

out of the handful of elite teams out West, the suns only one that didn't play a single finals game.

Spurs, Mavericks, Lakers, all made it

and now the run is over pretty much. 0 finals appearances

92-93 Barkley-led Suns team says "Hi!" :toast

b0-Xcb2Os2E

[Darrin]

92-93 Barkley-led Suns team says "Hi!" :toast

b0-Xcb2Os2E

rvBxzd9heLo

http://phoenix.fanster.com/suns/files/2009/04/nash_stoudemire_300jpg.jpeg
2004-05: 62-20 (Lost 4-1 to the San Antonio Spurs in the Western Conference Finals).
2005-06: 54-28 (Lost 4-2 to the Dallas Mavericks in the Western Conference Finals).
2006-07: 61-21 (Lost 4-2 to the San Antonio Spurs in the Western Conference Semifinals).
2007-08: 55-27 (Lost 4-1 to the San Antonio Spurs in the Western Conference Quarterfinals).
2008-09: 46-36 (Failed to make the Playoffs).
2009-10: 54-28 (Lost 4-2 to the Los Angeles Lakers in the Western Conference Finals).

Total: 332-160 (.675, or 55.3 wins per season), No NBA Finals Appearances.

Not only did they lose to all the teams listed in the MiamiHeat post, but they lost to them in years they won the NBA Championship (2004-05, 2006-07, and 2009-10). They never beat the San Antonio Spurs in a postseason series.

[JMarkJohns]

They never beat the San Antonio Spurs in a postseason series.

Beat 'em this year. Not that it matters.

[Darrin]

Beat 'em this year. Not that it matters.

Sorry. I was wrong.

[Giuseppe]

Beat 'em this year. Not that it matters.

Though The Skunker was a nice touch.

tee, hee.

[JMarkJohns]

Though The Skunker was a nice touch.

tee, hee.

Felt damn good, at the time, and I honestly believed that the performance would give them the confidence to beat the Lakers. I had said entering the playoffs that Phoenix's only shot at the Finals was to beat San Antonio, exorcise the demons, and lay waste to the rest of their following competition. Only, then they got their pants beat in Game 1 vs. LA, and whatever confidence gained was lost until the fourth quarter of Game 2. You spot LA two wins, and you've handed them the series.

Since hence, the series win vs. SA doesn't really matter. It's not college. Final 4 is nothing of note.

[timtonymanu]

Is Childress coming back to the NBA next season?

[JMarkJohns]

Is Childress coming back to the NBA next season?

Yeah... signed a full MLE-type contract with Atlanta then traded to Phoenix in sign-n-trade for a future 2nd.

[Indazone]

oh snap! That Suns teams looks like a non-playoff contender.

[Indazone]

The Suns are done. Sarver officially blew it up

[JMarkJohns]

The Suns are done. Sarver officially blew it up

They'll make the playoffs. They have twice as many shooters as any other team in the League, and enough 2/3/4 versatility to always be able to play the hot hands that they'll be in most every game. They'll gimmick up their defense enough because of their depth/length enough to be in most every game.

There's like four teams in the NBA with the size to really exploit the Suns weaknesses and have enough offense to blow them out every game. The rest of the league is a close range of mediocre to above average, which means the Suns should net 45-to-50 wins. I think they could finish as high as fifth overall in the west, but figure on them finishing 6th/7th.

They have so much depth, minutes will be kept down. Only position without depth is C, which will hurt of Lopez misses extended time, but the rest of the team has an above average backup, if not multiple.

In 2005-06 Nash led the Suns to the Conference Finals with a frontcourt of 6-7/220 Marion, 6-8/225 Jones, 6-8/230 Thomas and 6-9/225 Diaw. Small, undersized, mostly perimeter oriented, no box-out rebounders. This team has better depth, and many more players that rebound better than their position's average. Plus, with the depth, they can be more aggressive when out of position to contend for long rebounds.

But, beyond, yes, Sarver has killed the Suns with these moves and the fork is firmly stuck in the franchise. They aren't yet well done, but they are all but finished.

[NASHville]

Playoff bound for sure and they will get past the first round. Beyond that will be a blessing.

[pauls931]

Where are the Suns fans?

Sorta around, the miami thing has turned me a bit off on the Nba...

[Darrin]

Why is everyone so certain they will make the postseason this year? They lost Amar'e Stoudemire. They have no one to replace him unless you count Robin Lopez as a 20-10-2 player, and I don't. Nash isn't going to stay healthy the whole season. Josh Childress is a bit uproven at this point since he has been overseas.

Dallas, Houston (Yao back), Memphis (40-42 last season, still have same core), New Orleans (Chris Paul healthy, Darren Collison a year older), San Antonio, Denver, Portland, Oklahoma City, Utah, Sacramento (Demarcus Cousins, Samuel Dalembert, and Tyreke Evans a year older), the Clippers (Blake Griffin), and the Lakers are all still there in the West. Phoenix isn't hands-down better than any of those teams. It's up for debate whether they can make it.

[Giuseppe]

Sorta around, the miami thing has turned me a bit off on the Nba...

That's defeatist sour grapes, Paul.

The Heat worked within' the rule book. The NBA is not a co-op. It's not ruled by a Socialist like Hussein Obama, praise Allah. It's run by a capitalist named David Stern, Matzel, Matzel.

[21_Blessings]

Sorta around, the miami thing has turned me a bit off on the Nba...

Tucking that tail and running eh? Sounds like a Suns fan to me. :bking

[pauls931]

Tucking that tail and running eh? Sounds like a Suns fan to me. :bking

Or someone who realizes there's more to life than NBA basketball. LOL

[21_Blessings]

Or someone who realizes there's more to life than NBA basketball. LOL

So root for your team when they're good and bail on them when they suck donkey balls. Gotcha.

Convenient how you were happy to watch the NBA at its weakest (Nash/Dirk winning MVPs confirms this) point since the Jordan expansion era. Yet now when the NBA is basically at its peak competitively you vanish faster than Phoenix Suns' championship hopes.

Interesting.

[JMarkJohns]

Why is everyone so certain they will make the postseason this year? They lost Amar'e Stoudemire. They have no one to replace him unless you count Robin Lopez as a 20-10-2 player, and I don't. Nash isn't going to stay healthy the whole season. Josh Childress is a bit uproven at this point since he has been overseas.

Dallas, Houston (Yao back), Memphis (40-42 last season, still have same core), New Orleans (Chris Paul healthy, Darren Collison a year older), San Antonio, Denver, Portland, Oklahoma City, Utah, Sacramento (Demarcus Cousins, Samuel Dalembert, and Tyreke Evans a year older), the Clippers (Blake Griffin), and the Lakers are all still there in the West. Phoenix isn't hands-down better than any of those teams. It's up for debate whether they can make it.

Don't be so naive... Nash isn't going to stay healthy, but Yao and Paul are? Randolph, notorious for getting into trouble, is going to stay out of trouble yet again?

I already explained why they are making the playoffs. They have great depth 2-3-4, have more shooters coming off their bench than most have on their team, while they don't have any dominant rebounder, players like Hill, Richardson, Childress rebound very well for SGs/SFs, and they'll be running a swarming zone most of the time, focring teams to beat them with the three, thus causing longer rebounds to negate their size. If the rebounds bounce long like most perimeter shots do, then the size/positioning isn't as big a deal vs. most teams.

Yeah, it sucks to lose Amare. He was a beast in the paint. But I showed how a perimeter-oriented frontcourt was utilized in this system and by Nash to win 50+ games and advance in the playoffs.

I don't think they are anywhere near as good, but The only teams I see as definitively better than last season is San Antonio, Portland and Oklahoma City. Denver has size issues, coaching issues, immaturity issues and Billups is another year older. Utah lost depth and downgraded with their replacements, losing Matthews/Korver/Brewer/Boozer for Bell/Jefferson. The latter each coming off injuries/surgeries that diminished their effectiveness. Dallas added Chandler, a player who won't see much PT so long as Haywood is healthy, to a team that crapped out in the 1st round. Memphis is a team begging to implode, with too many ballhogs/hotheads. Houston has talent and should make things interesting, but without Yao they are still small and even with Yao, they are mismatched and a bit soft. And the Hornets, even as a healthy Hornets, are roughly .500. Not enough perimeter talent, several injury prone players, no depth. Everyone beyond that I'm laughing at your inclusion. Do many of the teams have much brighter futures? Sure... But none of them have the combination of experience, depth, shooting, length and ability to execute within this system.

Phoenix should be expected to win 45-50 games, which should place them in the playoffs around 5/7 range. Can they miss the playoffs? Sure... But I really don't think the perfect storm of all-of-a-sudden maturity, health, instant progress happens the way your post describes.

[picc84]

Except in 2006, the league was much weaker than it is currently.

[Indazone]

Suns will be lucky to win 40 games. C'mon losing Stoudamire was huge. Robin Lopez? Puleaaaazzzeeee! They are essentially a donut team now without any real dominant post players. They are the now the New Jersey Nets of the West.

[JMarkJohns]

Except in 2006, the league was much weaker than it is currently.

And I'm not saying the Suns are going to win 54 games and win the division.

People are mistaking parody for better. save for the top-5/6 teams, from 12-24, most of the teams are the same, and the bottom 12 teams just aren't very good at all.

Suns will have two ball-handlers and three or four shooters on the floor the entire game. They'll get their points in the paint from the floor being spread so much. Yeah, Amare is a huge loss, but half his offensive possessions were attempted jumpers, and he wasn't that good a rebounder or defender that the Suns with this roster can't replace that board/defensive production through depth and aggressiveness.

Am I happy with this? Hell no! I wanted them to re-sign Amare or tear the team apart. This sucks. But... I understand better than most the effectiveness of this system with the right pieces for the regular season. They'll struggle against many teams, but pose nightmare mismatches for many, many more. Sure, some nights nobodies shots will be falling. But others they will. Nash is still playing at a high level, and with Dragic a capable backup, he'll have his legs for the entire season. Lopez was making significant strides, so to just scoff is really ignorant. Of course, he's an injury concern as well, so we'll have to see.

I'm not convinced they win a playoff series, but I expect them to make the playoffs. I can see a 5/6 win drop off from last season. It could have been worse, but nobody in the west added pieces without losing pieces after the Blazers, Lakers. Nash has played without Amare plenty often enough to know what to do to adjust and maximize a perimeter oriented team. He has the bevy of shooters at his disposal and can run teams ragged with the teams depth. As I said, they'll gimmick up their defense to force more perimeter shots and try to use their perimeter size/athleticism to offset traditional rebounding. They can be very effective in their swarming zone (giving even the Lakers fits), and if they force more jumpers, then fewer positional rebounds are to be had.

But whatever... haters gonna hate. I don't care. I know what's what from watching roughly 90% of the games the Suns have played during this Nash era. They'll win in the regular season, and do enough to make the playoffs. Of this I have no doubt.

[JMarkJohns]

Suns will be lucky to win 40 games. C'mon losing Stoudamire was huge. Robin Lopez? Puleaaaazzzeeee! They are essentially a donut team now without any real dominant post players. They are the now the New Jersey Nets of the West.

Wow... hyperbole?

Don't overstate, man. It's unbecoming and undercuts the validity of any actual reason you present.

Nets? Amare was worth 45 wins?

[djohn2oo8]

Suns will be lucky to win 40 games. C'mon losing Stoudamire was huge. Robin Lopez? Puleaaaazzzeeee! They are essentially a donut team now without any real dominant post players. They are the now the New Jersey Nets of the West.

Tha fuck do u know? You quoted coldplay, you have ZERO credibility

[picc84]

I'm a hater for acknowledging the simple fact that today's league is stronger than 2006's.

Ok.

[djohn2oo8]

I'm a hater for acknowledging the simple fact that today's league is stronger than 2006's.

Ok.

Today's league is weaker than ever

[JMarkJohns]

I'm a hater for acknowledging the simple fact that today's league is stronger than 2006's.

Ok.

It's top heavy. The entire league isn't stronger. There's just as many poor teams as average ones. The comment wasn't just about what you said, it was in general.

About the only thing stronger in today's NBA than in 2006 is the Eastern Conference. Suns play in the Western conference... from 3-through-9, there's not a whole lot of difference. Suns will do just fine. Not that I'm happy about it. They finally have their own 1st and they go out and maintain average instead of starting the rebuild. Sucks...

[JMarkJohns]

Today's league is weaker than ever

Yep. The top got better, but the bottom got much worse...

In 2006 the worst teams in each conference were Portland (21 wins) and New York (23 wins). In 2010, Minnesota (15 wins) and New Jersey (12 wins).

In 2006 there were 5 teams total with fewer than 30 wins. In 2010, there were 10

Yes, there were more 50-win teams in 2010 then in 2006, so if this is what you want to rest your case on, then go ahead. HOWEVER, I've already explained how many of these same 50-win teams will fall off from that total - including Phoenix. Defections, injuries, coaching... the Western Conference is the Lakers conference with only three other teams being strong and San Antonio is old, Portland is a house of glass and Oklahoma City is young. Dallas didn't get any better, Utah lost depth and got slower, Denver has coaching and maturity issues, Phoenix lost Amare but added depth all over, Houston gets Yao back, but he's injury-likely, Memphis could shoot themselves before they win 40+ games again, and New Orleans is like Portland health-wise, but without real leadership, coaching, depth to survive.

It's not that I think everyone else is going to suck, it's just everyone is dismissing Phoenix without putting their moves into the proper Conference/NBA context.

The top of the league is better, the bottom is worse than ever, and many of the teams Phoenix was in line with last season got worse or got no better with no real threats from the lower tiers looking likely to make a 5/10-win jump to be a real threat. Houston is my only worry of that, but I'm not gonna worry until Yao is playing like an All-Star for 30+ games in a row.

[21_Blessings]

:lmao Yes let's just ignore all those 50 win teams because the Wizards suck.

Phoenix falls off while Houston replaces them. So much for that argument. :lol

[djohn2oo8]

Yep. The top got better, but the bottom got much worse...

In 2006 the worst teams in each conference were Portland (21 wins) and New York (23 wins). In 2010, Minnesota (15 wins) and New Jersey (12 wins).

In 2006 there were 5 teams total with fewer than 30 wins. In 2010, there were 10

Yes, there were more 50-win teams in 2010 then in 2006, so if this is what you want to rest your case on, then go ahead. HOWEVER, I've already explained how many of these same 50-win teams will fall off from that total - including Phoenix. Defections, injuries, coaching... the Western Conference is the Lakers conference with only three other teams being strong and San Antonio is old, Portland is a house of glass and Oklahoma City is young. Dallas didn't get any better, Utah lost depth and got slower, Denver has coaching and maturity issues, Phoenix lost Amare but added depth all over, Houston gets Yao back, but he's injury-likely, Memphis could shoot themselves before they win 40+ games again, and New Orleans is like Portland health-wise, but without real leadership, coaching, depth to survive.

It's not that I think everyone else is going to suck, it's just everyone is dismissing Phoenix without putting their moves into the proper Conference/NBA context.

The top of the league is better, the bottom is worse than ever, and many of the teams Phoenix was in line with last season got worse or got no better with no real threats from the lower tiers looking likely to make a 5/10-win jump to be a real threat. Houston is my only worry of that, but I'm not gonna worry until Yao is playing like an All-Star for 30+ games in a row.

IMHO, we don't need Yao until the playoffs

[Venti Quattro]

IMHO, we don't need Yao until the playoffs

Last season doesn't say much about your premise.

[21_Blessings]

It's top heavy. The entire league isn't stronger. There's just as many poor teams as average ones.

The top now is light years better than in 2006. Which makes it a stronger league by definition.


About the only thing stronger in today's NBA than in 2006 is the Eastern Conference.

Your logic doesn't add up when no team in 2006 even comes close to the 2010 Lakers. That instantly makes the West stronger even if you want to be a retard and ignore the fact that there were more 50 win playoff teams.

Only the top 16 really define a season's strength anyway. And in 2010's case the rest of league was mostly dealing with injuries/tanking for Wall/clearing cap space for Lebron.

Looking at the bottom of the league is completely fucking silly.

[djohn2oo8]

Last season doesn't say much about your premise.

We didn't have a 7 ft Center. We just needed a big body at that position to stabilize the rest of the team. Last year, 42 wins with Hayes there, add a decent big body and they would have made the playoffs. What I'm saying is they should rest Yao for half the season, and play him down the stretch so he would be fresher for the playoffs, since it is apparent he can't ever play a full season again. That squad didn't have a full season, added Martin, Patterson, Hill, now let them mesh with Brooks, Lowry, Budinger, Ariza, Taylor, Scola ,Battier. We shall see, but we don't NEED Yao for the reg season

[21_Blessings]

Also the Clippers making the playoffs and both teams that were in the finals bounced in the 1st round the following season is just more undeniable proof that 2006 was a laughing stock. :lol

[JMarkJohns]

The top now is light years better than in 2006. Which makes it a stronger league by definition.

Your logic doesn't add up when no team in 2006 even comes close to the 2010 Lakers. That instantly makes the West stronger even if you want to be a retard and ignore the fact that there were more 50 win playoff teams.

Only the top 16 really define a season's strength anyway. And in 2010's case the rest of league was mostly dealing with injuries/tanking for Wall/clearing cap space for Lebron.

Looking at the bottom of the league is completely fucking silly.

The top is stronger, the bottom is worse. Why the latter matters is Suns play the bottom six teams just as they play the top six.

The bottom being much, much worse contributes to teams like the Suns/Jazz maintaining a similar level of play despite their losses.

I've acknowledged the Suns are going to struggle against the top Title-contending tier. But I'm not convinced upon extensive review of roster/skillsets that the Suns have taken so significant a step backwards that they'll "be lucky to win 40 games" or become "the New Jersey Nets of the West". Could they miss the playoffs? Sure. But I don't see any legit playoff contender from the 9-15 seeds in the West until I see Paul or Yao healthy and playing at a high level for an extended period of time.

If there's nobody from 9-15 challenging, that makes the Suns a playoff team.

Again, 45-50 wins and a likely 6th/7th seed with a high of 5th and a low of 8th. I acknowledge the loss of Amare, but have also addressed his absence. Half his FG attempts were jumpers, so replacing jumpers with jumpers isn't a big deal. He didn't rebound very well for his position, nor was a a good defender. It's not like they got worse in those latter two areas. They'll give up some size and inside scoring, but I've addressed how each can be gimmicked by the Suns to gain ground in the areas.

But nobody arguing with me is buying it. Fine. Like I said, I've watched plenty enough to know better.

[Indazone]

Tha fuck do u know? You quoted coldplay, you have ZERO credibility

You know for someone who got kicked off the clutchfans board you sure do blow a lot of hot air out of your ass. As far as zero cred goes lmao you cite the fact that I quoted Coldplay and try to relate that to basketball? You are a dumbass.

[21_Blessings]

the bottom is worse.

On a win scale maybe but not on a talent scale.


Why the latter matters is Suns play the bottom six teams just as they play the top six.

Not in the playoffs they don't.


The bottom being much, much worse contributes to teams like the Suns/Jazz maintaining a similar level of play despite their losses.

It wasn't much, much worse. Compare a 26 win Bobcat 2006 team to the 26 win Kings/Warriors 2010 team. The latter has infinitely more talent.

The fact that the top is so much superior these days explains the lack of wins from the bottom to go along with the annual injury-tank excuse.


But nobody arguing with me is buying it. Fine. Like I said, I've watched plenty enough to know better.

I don't really give a flying fuck about the Suns or how many games they win next year. But a HedLOL/Warrick rotation plus the usual sprinkle of Nash will be legendary bad defensively. Good luck. :tu

[djohn2oo8]

You know for someone who got kicked off the clutchfans board you sure do blow a lot of hot air out of your ass. As far as zero cred goes lmao you cite the fact that I quoted Coldplay and try to relate that to basketball? You are a dumbass.

I don't relate it to basketball, I relate it to the fact that you are lame. The fact that you are a nuthugging Yaofan is what I related to bball

[JMarkJohns]

On a win scale maybe but not on a talent scale.

But if the "better talent" doesn't win, then I'm not sure how its better. The teams at the bottom of the League in 2010 were substantially worse, both in record and in number. Your point about tanking for Wall/clearing CAP for a mega free agent is a good idea, but with Miami hoarding the free agent talent and only one lottery team out of many getting Wall, that leave a ton of bad teams with lesser talents, if any.


It wasn't much, much worse. Compare a 26 win Bobcat 2006 team to the 26 win Kings/Warriors 2010 team. The latter has infinitely more talent.

The fact that the top is so much superior these days explains the lack of wins from the bottom to go along with the annual injury-tank excuse.

Again, you need to win. Kings have young talent, but much of it is raw and unproven. Same with many of the worse-recorded clubs. Talent does not equal wins, especially when talent doesn't have leadership or coaching.


I don't really give a flying fuck about the Suns or how many games they win next year. But a HedLOL/Warrick rotation plus the usual sprinkle of Nash will be legendary bad defensively. Good luck. :tu

Sure, but they'll make enough shots to overcome this vs. the majority of the League. They can gimmick up their defense, forcing more perimeter jumpers through swarming doubles, these jumpers reduce the effectiveness of low-post players and slashers and create long rebounds, which reduces the effectiveness of positional rebounders. They won't be mistaken for a good defensive team or a good rebounding team, but they have enough size, length and athleticism on the perimeter to take advantage of long rebounds, which can ignite their fast break. I'm telling you, I've seen this show before. It's effective vs. most every team, but the top half-dozen or so.



Why the latter matters is Suns play the bottom six teams just as they play the top six.

Not in the playoffs they don't.

I never said they would do anything but be likely 1st-round fodder upon making the playoffs. My discussion has entirely been about their likelihood of making the playoffs. It's fair to say they won't. But saying they won't because Nash will get injured while saying Yao and Paul won't, or saying Amare was worth 40+ wins to the Suns is laughable. How can one expect one player with good health to all of sudden get injured but not expect such from two notoriously injured stars? How can one say that Amare 10 points per game in the paint is worth 40 wins? I know these weren't you, so don't take offense. I pointed out their faulty logic.

Suns have the depth to do a lot of damage to the poor-to-mediocre-to-average teams and enough to the above-average teams to make the playoffs. Beyond that, I don't even care 'cause I've seen this shit before.

These offseason moves have all but guaranteed 0-for-50, which is only a half a decade away. OH YAY! But we get to compete for the bottom half of the Western Conference Finals right now!!!

I'm not happy about this. I'd rather suck right now to collect a lottery pick. But the Suns won't suck. They'll be just good enough now to be bad later on.

[picc84]

Mind boggling, it is.

There are at least 5 teams that would win the title if transported back to 06....in 07 the Cavs got to the finals, have improved significantly every year since then, and still make annual 2nd round exits....the 8 seed Thunder last year would have wiped the floor with the 2006 seven-seed lakers....nuff said. Anybody thinks the league isn't stronger now than it was then, much less weaker, is a goddamn moron....no use arguing with that kind of stupidity....just tip my hat and walk away....chuckling.

[JMarkJohns]

Mind boggling, it is.

There are at least 5 teams that would win the title if transported back to 06....in 07 the Cavs got to the finals, have improved significantly every year since then, and still make annual 2nd round exits....the 8 seed Thunder last year would have wiped the floor with the 2006 seven-seed lakers....nuff said. Anybody thinks the league isn't stronger now than it was then, much less weaker, is a goddamn moron....no use arguing with that kind of stupidity....just tip my hat and walk away....chuckling.

The League, as a whole, is not stronger. The top is stronger. Records bear this out. The bottom is much worse. Records bear this out. Thankfully, this isn't the NFL. The Suns, and every other middle-of-the-pack team, gets to play everybody, including some pretty bad teams at the bottom of the Western Conference. Was 2006 weak? Sure. Which is why my predictions merely have the Suns winning 45-50 games (a 4-9 game drop from 2006) and first-round fodder (a two series drop from 2006).

The 2006 Suns weren't the first perimeter oriented team to make the playoffs (Fuck, the Suns history is built upon these type of teams), nor will this year's Suns be the last.

[Darrin]

The League, as a whole, is not stronger. The top is stronger. Records bear this out. The bottom is much worse. Records bear this out. Thankfully, this isn't the NFL. The Suns, and every other middle-of-the-pack team, gets to play everybody, including some pretty bad teams at the bottom of the Western Conference. Was 2006 weak? Sure. Which is why my predictions merely have the Suns winning 45-50 games (a 4-9 game drop from 2006) and first-round fodder (a two series drop from 2006).

The 2006 Suns weren't the first perimeter oriented team to make the playoffs (Fuck, the Suns history is built upon these type of teams), nor will this year's Suns be the last.

The league is about the same. In 2007 the league exploded. Now, guys that used to dominate are looking a retirement and taking nights off. The hungry are again the young players, not those in their prime. 2007-2009 was special. 2006 was just another season.

[picc84]

The League, as a whole, is not stronger. The top is stronger. Records bear this out. The bottom is much worse. Records bear this out. Thankfully, this isn't the NFL. The Suns, and every other middle-of-the-pack team, gets to play everybody, including some pretty bad teams at the bottom of the Western Conference. Was 2006 weak? Sure. Which is why my predictions merely have the Suns winning 45-50 games (a 4-9 game drop from 2006) and first-round fodder (a two series drop from 2006).

The 2006 Suns weren't the first perimeter oriented team to make the playoffs (Fuck, the Suns history is built upon these type of teams), nor will this year's Suns be the last.

........
:lol

[Leetonidas]

I think the Suns have a decent shot at being competitive next season. They will probably make the playoffs because of their style and they do have capable scorers next to Nash who will probably continue to age finely. I am interested to see how they do without Stoudemire and to see if Warrick can somewhat fill his shoes. If Warrick ends up putting up like 17 and 7 then Amare really is fucked. :lol

[Goran Dragic]

This is the one thread in the NBA forum I actually wanted to participate in.

Basically, J-Mark is right, the Suns will sneak into the playoffs but it's not like he's happy about it. They play enough bad teams every year where they can win a jump shooting orgy and collect close to 50 wins doing so, but there's no chance if them surprising everyone like they did last year. The roster is just a jumbled mess full of a few promising young guys, Nash, and the sloppy seconds of other teams. Yeah, this roster, a good coach, a gimmicky system, and some Western teams that rely on injury prone players is enough to get the Suns into a 6-8 seed, but they'd be lucky if they are contending again by the end of the decade.

By all means though, I hope the Lakers fans in this thread are right. I hope they do suck fat dick. I hope they miss the playoffs. I hope they barely win 20 games. I hope Nash and Hill are demanding trades by the deadline. I hope it becomes apparent immediately how disastrous this off season was for them, and how clueless this Lon Babby faggot is. I hope Sarver is getting booed out of his own arena. I just know this team too well, and how they never immediately bottom out, they always make a slow painful process that makes rebuilding way harder than needed.

For the next 8 or so years, expect a 42-50 win team every year, then 1-2 years where they actually do bottom out as the Heat dynasty comes to an end, then 3 years where they actually are a contender but fuck up things during the process. Then expect that cycle to repeat.

[Trainwreck2100]

This is the one thread in the NBA forum I actually wanted to participate in.

Basically, J-Mark is right, the Suns will sneak into the playoffs but it's not like he's happy about it. They play enough bad teams every year where they can win a jump shooting orgy and collect close to 50 wins doing so, but there's no chance if them surprising everyone like they did last year. The roster is just a jumbled mess full of a few promising young guys, Nash, and the sloppy seconds of other teams. Yeah, this roster, a good coach, a gimmicky system, and some Western teams that rely on injury prone players is enough to get the Suns into a 6-8 seed, but they'd be lucky if they are contending again by the end of the decade.

By all means though, I hope the Lakers fans in this thread are right. I hope they do suck fat dick. I hope they miss the playoffs. I hope they barely win 20 games. I hope Nash and Hill are demanding trades by the deadline. I hope it becomes apparent immediately how disastrous this off season was for them, and how clueless this Lon Babby faggot is. I hope Sarver is getting booed out of his own arena. I just know this team too well, and how they never immediately bottom out, they always make a slow painful process that makes rebuilding way harder than needed.

For the next 8 or so years, expect a 42-50 win team every year, then 1-2 years where they actually do bottom out as the Heat dynasty comes to an end, then 3 years where they actually are a contender but fuck up things during the process. Then expect that cycle to repeat.

Son they will have so much fun this year

[Goran Dragic]

Son they will have so much fun this year
Hedo is excited to play for a team that actually welcomes players to show up to training camp fat and out of shape.

[Trainwreck2100]

Hedo is excited to play for a team that actually welcomes players to show up to training camp fat and out of shape.

Dudley's gonna be able to pump his chest more too.

[Xylus]

Dudley's gonna be able to pump his chest more too.

Watch what you say about Dudley. Dude's a stud.

[Goran Dragic]

Dudley's gonna be able to pump his chest more too.
Huh? Dudley's actually one of the few guys on the team who works hard and actually associates fun with winning.

[Trainwreck2100]

Huh? Dudley's actually one of the few guys on the team who works hard and actually associates fun with winning.

He also doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut.

[Goran Dragic]

He also doesn't know when to keep his mouth shut.
I smell skunk

[21_Blessings]

http://www.opposingviews.com/attachments/0007/4638/hedo_turkoglu.jpg?1280807629

[NASHville]

Be afraid, be very afraid.

[Goran Dragic]

Be afraid, be very afraid.
Afraid of what?

[Leetonidas]

I wouldn't say Dudley is a "stud," but he is a very good role player. He knows his role, he plays hard, shoots lights out, and plays solid defense. He's what you want your superstars surrounded with. Problem is, Phoenix doesn't have any superstars, just decent players made to look good because of an aging Steve Nash.

[21_Blessings]

Afraid of what?

Ball.

[Goran Dragic]

Damn, Hedont is really tearing FIBA competition up :lmao

http://espn.go.com/extra/fiba/boxscore?gameId=300904940
http://espn.go.com/extra/fiba/boxscore?gameId=300833930
http://espn.go.com/extra/fiba/boxscore?gameId=300831940
http://espn.go.com/extra/fiba/boxscore?gameId=300831055

lol not being able to make a shot against the Ivory Coast

[NASHville]

Afraid of what?

Afraid of having to go through the Suns this year.

[Goran Dragic]

Afraid of having to go through the Suns this year.
I'm sure Hedo Turkoglu at power forward has Pau Gasol bent over a toilet.

[DoKdynasty]

lol Goran banned

[monosylab1k]

wtf why was Goran Dragic banned :lmao

[sharpshooter13]

We did lose Amare, but I think you have to like the moves made this offseason if you are a Sun fan. Brought in Turkoglu, who may of had a bad year last year but is now back in a running offense. I think he will do great next year.
Losing Amare is that big of a deal. Hes injury prone, and Nash obviously made him look much better then he actually was. The guy couldnt rebound.
And we still have a top PG in the league.
Could we be a laker injury away from a finals appearance? We'll see.

[DoKdynasty]

wtf why was Goran Dragic banned :lmao

My guess is because of comments about how much CosmicCowboy likes using a certain word

[DoKdynasty]

We did lose Amare, but I think you have to like the moves made this offseason if you are a Sun fan. Brought in Turkoglu, who may of had a bad year last year but is now back in a running offense. I think he will do great next year.
Losing Amare is that big of a deal. Hes injury prone, and Nash obviously made him look much better then he actually was. The guy couldnt rebound.
And we still have a top PG in the league.
Could we be a laker injury away from a finals appearance? We'll see.

Go kill yourself.

[monosylab1k]

My guess is because of comments about how much CosmicCowboy likes using a certain word

crofl since when was telling the truth a bannable offense?

[DoKdynasty]

crofl since when was telling the truth a bannable offense?

Since when you were telling the truth about someone who has friends in the menopausal militia.

[Man About Town]

Looking forward to getting into some of that fine Scottsdale Poon this fall.

[Chillen]

Losing Amare will come back to bite them. I see them as having enough talent to contend for the 6th, 7th or 8th seed in the 2011 playoffs, but it's also possible they don't make the playoffs at all.

[DoKdynasty]

Losing Amare will come back to bite them. I see them as having enough talent to contend for the 6th, 7th or 8th seed in the 2011 playoffs, but it's also possible they don't make the playoffs at all.

Thanks tacker

[sharpshooter13]

Go kill yourself.

Whats your deal?

[DoKdynasty]

Whats your deal?

My deal is being tired of people who think that the Suns had some sort of great off season, because they didn't and anyone who knows the NBA will tell you the same. Turkoglu's year last year wasn't just a bad year, it was a guy who got his contract and then got lazy.

[sharpshooter13]

My deal is being tired of people who think that the Suns had some sort of great off season, because they didn't and anyone who knows the NBA will tell you the same. Turkoglu's year last year wasn't just a bad year, it was a guy who got his contract and then got lazy.

See, I dont believe that. I think he will perform well this year in our offense.

[DoKdynasty]

See, I dont believe that. I think he will perform well this year in our offense.

This is typical Suns homerism. "I have absolutely no logical or sensical reason to think this will happen, but nevertheless, I'm going to say it will happen because Paul Coro told me so."

[Giuseppe]

Losing Amare will come back to bite them. I see them as having enough talent to contend for the 6th, 7th or 8th seed in the 2011 playoffs, but it's also possible they don't make the playoffs at all.

SFs like Amare are a dime-a-dozen.

Hedo will affect outcome equal or better than Amare with a lot less headache & drama. He's white (after a fashion), a straight arrow and soldiers like a MF'er when he's content, and here he'll be content. The local gentry & Media will fawn all over him. It's a match made in heaven.

Getting Amare to walk away was a stroke of luck. Getting Hedo to cross paths on the way back in was a stroke of genius.

[redzero]

Hedo Turkoglu will throw up bricks and rack up DNPs from partying too hard the night before.

[Giuseppe]

Hedo Turkoglu will throw up bricks and rack up DNPs from partying too hard the night before.

No, Red, yer wrong. He'll be a bonafide sage in Phoenix. He'll make Nash better. Vice versa, yes, but, he'll increase Nash's effectiveness.

[redzero]

Hedo's best season was 2007-2008. He has only gotten worse since then and he is already 31.

Culburn, why do you think he will benefit the Suns more than Amar'e? The man has clearly lost motivation to play once he signed that contract and has been slacking off.

[Giuseppe]

More or less just a hunch. The Suns rarely make mistakes on special case acquisitions. Their commitment to Nash is unconditional. He runs it (top to bottom). They would not have brought Hedo in if they hadn't had a sit with him & Nash and got assurances that made them feel confident in his mind & body.

Amare brings nothing to the Phoenix table. And they realized that two years ago and just strung him along, let him goose the gate, sell his wampum, praying and waiting for his departure.

They're not eyeballing LOB. They're satisfied to compete on the edges, sniping, guerilla warfare style. If somehow they can catch somebody nappin', or, down with a sickness they'll pounce, bark their heads off and try for something.

There is no pressure here for Hedo. It will be a little slice of heaven for him.

[redzero]

I do not know how Hedo Turkoglu would ever bring more to the table than Amar'e. If the Suns' goal is getting to the Finals, they certainly will not have a better chance of beating the Lakers with Hedo than they did with Amar'e. If they are satisfied with only getting to the second round, as you claim, then I don't even think Hedo will help with that.

Hedo is old and unmotivated. Even if he does return to 07-08 form, he still won't be as good as Amar'e was for the Suns. Hedo did absolutely nothing last season while Amar'e stepped up his game for the most part.

To be honest, I thought this Turkoglu bandwagon came and went after the 09 Finals.

[Giuseppe]

Hedo is old, but, he'll fit into Nash's patterns.

Amare was not worth the max, and Sarver bluffed him out of town by agreeing to the money, but, the not the years and by not guaranteeing all the money. Media helped Sarver here keep that on the qt from going National. I'm just shocked that Amare didn't get the extra year from NY when they sent that gigantic trade exception over. I don't understand what Amare gained out of that decision...nothing, but I guess goodwill in AZ.

I just feel Hedo is home now, for only the second time, the first being in Sacramento. Nash is the defacto leader, but, Hedo will lead as well, with Nash's urging and blessing.