JVG: "Miami will break the 72 win record"

[djohn2oo8]

The Heat not only will be great, but historically great. So predicts the co-lead NBA analyst for ABC/ESPN.``They will break the single-season win record [of 72],'' Jeff Van Gundy said. ``And I think they have a legit shot at the Lakers' 33-game [winning] streak [in 1971-72], as well. And only the Lakers have even a remote shot at beating them in a playoff series. They will never lose two games in a row this year. ``They have put together a much better roster than anybody could ever have expected,'' Van Gundy added. ``There is now no good way to defend them. They are unguardable. They are indefensible. They are just too good and have added so much shooting and are so versatile that they will score at will. ``And with Erik Spoelstra coaching, they will be in the top three defensive teams in the league, as well. The other 29 teams better hope the lockout gets moved up a year.''Michael Jordan's Bulls set the regular-season victory mark at 72-10 in 1995-96.``I'm not trying to be Mercury Morris and root against anybody, but I don't think it will happen again,'' said TNT's Steve Kerr, who played on that Chicago team. ``There are too many variables, too many meaningless games, too many bad shooting nights, too much playoff preparation.``If anybody has a shot to do it, Miami does. If everything comes together perfectly, maybe they get to 70.'' Read more: http://www.miamiherald.com/2010/08/07/1766361/abcs-van-gundy-heat-will-break.html#ixzz0vwW5exmAChemistry is very underrated here

[Mister Sinister]

<slurping noises> All I'm hearing, JVG.

[HarlemHeat37]

I'm not willing to go as far as saying the Heat will win 72(although they obviously could), but they should easily win the title, as I've been saying..I will never post here again if they don't, barring injury..

[21_Blessings]

I will never post here again if they don't, barring injury..

:lol That part is new. Harlem getting scared..

[MiamiHeat]

hmm, sounds like what I said in a thread a week ago

The Heat were the 3rd best defensive team in the league last season, WITH JERMAINE O'NEAL PLAYING CENTER!

Subtract Jermaine O'Neal (went to Boston)
Add Chris Bosh, Big Z, Juwan Howard

Everything else is pretty much the same at the PF and C spots.

Expect 72-10 to be broken

I just don't see the average to below average teams have any shot to beat the Heat in regular season games.

[Gutter92]

:lol That part is new. Harlem getting scared..

What should he have said? "I wont post here if the Heat don't win the title even if best player in the NBA and the 2nd best player in the NBA (LeBron and Wade) are injured" ?

[HarlemHeat37]

I actually said "barring injury" from the beginning..Blessings being Blessings..


What should he have said? "I wont post here if the Heat don't win the title even if best player in the NBA and the 2nd best player in the NBA (LeBron and Wade) are injured" ?

:lol Laker fans..

[2pac > Kobe]

JVG is a bandwagon bitch ass nigga lets move on

[Sir Loin]

Nothing like a little bit of pressure

[djohn2oo8]

It's gonna be funny when Wade ends up performing under pressure in the playoffs, but LeBron fails miserably

[21_Blessings]

What should he have said? "I wont post here if the Heat don't win the title even if best player in the NBA and the 2nd best player in the NBA (LeBron and Wade) are injured" ?

More preemptive excuses I see.

The best player in the league just won his 5th title playing with multiple injuries... including one that required surgery. :lol

[PGDynasty24]

They certainly have talent for 72 wins,but it's not necessarily about talent for this particular record. It's about HEALTH and being focused every night,if they have those 2 things they have a chance. 96 bulls were talented no doubt,but there have been far more talented teams who have fell short of that mark

[21_Blessings]

They certainly have talent for 72 wins,but it's not necessarily about talent for this particular record. It's about HEALTH and being focused every night,if they have those 2 things they have a chance. 96 bulls were talented no doubt,but there have been far more talented teams who have fell short of that mark

The 96 Bulls also played in a MUCH weaker league. The league had less 50 win teams combined than the Western conference had last season :lmao

While the Heat play in a terrible conference, its still better than the what the Bulls had to face night after night. 72 is not happening but that won't stop the Heat from making it one of their goals :lol

[djohn2oo8]

The 96 Bulls also played in a MUCH weaker league. The league had less 50 win teams combined than the Western conference had last season :lmao

While the Heat play in a terrible conference, its still better than the what the Bulls had to face night after night. 72 is not happening but that won't stop the Heat from making it one of their goals :lol

lol, you really think today's league is stronger than the 90's??? There is a real lack of big men these days compared to that time, they were allowed to play more physical, and didn't whine to the refs after every call

[phxspurfan]

I'd like to see that. Even though it would ruin the Jordan memory.

[21_Blessings]

lol, you really think today's league is stronger than the 90's??? There is a real lack of big men these days compared to that time, they were allowed to play more physical, and didn't whine to the refs after every call

lol expansion era. Please.

Didn't whine to the refs? :lmao :lmao :lmao

Ok imagine the officiating favortism Dwayne Wade saw in the 2006 finals. That's how it was for Michael Jordan every single game in the 90s. Regular season or playoffs.:lol

[Kobe™]

They'll definitely challenge it - their front-court woes will be exposed come playoff time though..

[Zelophehad]

lol expansion era. Please.

Didn't whine to the refs? :lmao :lmao :lmao

Ok imagine the officiating favortism Dwayne Wade saw in the 2006 finals. That's how it was for Michael Jordan every single game in the 90s. Regular season or playoffs.:lol

R2JG1AFFTnk

[DazedAndConfused]

I really don't think their frontcourt weakness will be exposed all that much.

The only area they may falter in is chemistry. Lebron and Wade are both VERY similar kinds of players, and one of them is going to have to adjust their game significantly.

[LeHeat_Dynasty]

I'll try to be objective as much as possible though its hard to sound like it when you have Lebron James, Dwyane Wade and Chris Bosh playing in the same team.


Do I think the Heat can surpass Chicago's magical 72 win season? Absolutely. They have all the tools in place, 2 Superstars, another All Star big man, a hustling forward and sharp shooters in place. People point out to Miami's weakness at the point guard spot and the Center spot, while this is a glaring weakness, I believe the overall depth of the team and the luxury of having two of the leagues Top 3 player in your team can easily offset that. The Bulls were also tremendously weak in their point guard and center position that year. Luc Longley, Bill Wennington, Dickey Simpskins & James Edwards really did'nt struck much fear on Shaq, Ewing, Mourning, Robinson, Olajuwon and Mutombo. Steve Kerr, Ron Harper and Randy Brown? Let's not get started with them. That Bulls team was particularly driven primarily by 4 men. Jordan, Pippen, Jackson and Rodman. The rest were just happy to be part of that journey. I see striking similarities with the Heat. Yes, they dont have Phil Jackson but Pat Riley's presence at least makes up for Spoelstra's lack of experience.


Now, realistically, do I think they'll win 70+ games this year? No. The Bulls in 95-96 were lucky to be the only team outside the Orlando Magic to have a legitimate 1-2 Superstar punch in the East. The East was so weak that a 47 win Cleveland Cavaliers carried by Terrell Brandon, Chris Mills and Danny Ferry grabbed the 5th Playoff spot that year, the Patrick Ewing era led Knicks was tired and injured. This year the quality of talent has improved tremendously. Chicago, Boston added some great pieces. I believe with a healthy Andrew Bogut and an emerging Brandon Jennings the Bucks has replaced Atlanta as the favorite 'darkhorse' in their conference capable of upsetting a higher seeded team. I think Dwight's extensive workout with Olajuwon this season means we'll finally see the hype about his true "potential". so dont scratch Orlando just yet.



The regular season doesn't really concern me. The playoffs does however. On paper, the Heat are arguably the best team in the league. But in the postseason, chemistry and experience plays a huge factor and this is where Miami may fall short. My fear is that they'll have a circus like atmosphere demolishing teams in the regular season and this sense of arrogance and entitlement may carry over in the playoffs. And I love the guy but with Lebron James on board, we'll probably see immaturity along the way. Also, Bosh is not really the type of guy you can depend your post work on, so I'm glad Haslem is still on board because he can instill that toughness the Heat severely lacks down low and I'm not holding my breath on Ilgauskas and Joel Anthony to be honest with you. The Heat's lone true competitor AT THIS POINT is Wade. He has the fire and the will. He has proven himself, he's a leader. Whether his attitude rubs on Lebron and Bosh is another thing.

[DJ Mbenga]

do they hve a shot at 72 maybe? one thing they wont do is win 33 in a row

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Teams that were going to win 70 games:

2003-04 Lakers: Won 56
2007-08 Mavs: Won 51
2008-09 Cavs: Won 66
2008-09 Lakers: Won 65
2008-09 Celtics Won 62
2009-10 Cavs: Won 61
2009-10 Lakers: Won 57
2009-10 Celtics (Per Rasheed Wallace): Won 50.

Phil Jackson explained it well why the Bulls 72 win record will be hard to match: Chicago had shorter traveling mileage and less of a time zone variance in games played. Winning 34 in a row? Not losing 2 in a row? LOL, no fucking way.


I'm not willing to go as far as saying the Heat will win 72(although they obviously could), but they should easily win the title, as I've been saying..I will never post here again if they don't, barring injury..

Easily win the title? I already explained why it won't be easy but you lost that argument when you chose to ignore me about my valid points. I already proved you're a pussy and all you do is brag about your posting award. Proof in my signature. Go ahead, play that worn out card again. When you do leave after Miami gets booted next spring, are you going to take your alter ego MiamiHeat with you?

[HarlemHeat37]

Teams that were going to win 70 games:

2003-04 Lakers: Won 56
2007-08 Mavs: Won 51
2008-09 Cavs: Won 66
2008-09 Lakers: Won 65
2008-09 Celtics Won 62
2009-10 Cavs: Won 61
2009-10 Lakers: Won 57
2009-10 Celtics (Per Rasheed Wallace): Won 50.

Do you have a link that says these teams were expected to win 70 games?..




Easily win the title? I already explained why it won't be easy but you lost that argument when you chose to ignore me about my valid points. I already proved you're a pussy and all you do is brag about your posting award. Proof in my signature. Go ahead, play that worn out card again. When you do leave after Miami gets booted next spring, are you going to take your alter ego MiamiHeat with you?

You didn't explain anything :lol..you gave poor analysis that was centered around the "hunger" of other teams, completely ignoring the on-court part, completely focusing on unquantifiable arguments like "hunger":lmao..

The fact that you continue to update your sig with poor examples of "owning" people is hilarious..



I think Miami needs a couple of years before they are good enough to win it. That MLE will come in handy to get some critical pieces in 2011 nd 2012.I expect the Heat to not make the finals for 1-3 years. If they don't win by 2014, the big 3 have player options and will probably bail out. I'd trade Bosh for a Perkins like center and a good PG, then they're ready now. Bosh is the weak link, along with their front court. LeBron and Wade is good enough. 2 many cooks spoil te broth and Bosh is the odd man out. If Miami starts failing, look for the blame to go to him for not helping.

So your only explanation here is that Bosh isn't good enough..would you like to explain why he's a "weak link"?..instead of just making statements and not backing them up, as you always do..


The Heat team is built to win over the long haul. The league will rise to the challenge. Miami just isn't ready, too many other hungrier teams that must win NOW in their way. The future could be theirs. There is just as good a chance it won't be as it will if they don't win in the next two years. I say they don't. That's my opinion, but at least I give reasons for it.

Robin and Batgirl needed to join Batman in South Beach because they couldn't do it alone. You fell for the hype, plain and simple. If Miami does win next year and after, it will not be as easy as you think. It will be tooth and nail and down to the bitter end. Wake up and pay attention to the other great teams out there, there are more now than ever before in NBA history

Once again, this is your argument..you continue to make statements, yet you don't back anything up..

"Miami just isn't ready"

"Why?"

"They just aren't, that's my opinion"


1) Spurs, Celtics, and Lakers have championship experience?
2) They are all hungry for more?
3) They can't be counted out until their teams windows closed? I even gave the years.
4) That there may be more great teams now than at any time in NBA history?
5) That LeBron admitted he needed help and became Robin to Wade's Batman?
6) CP3 and Melo may team up somewhere, with Amar'e perhaps in NY?
7) That the rest of the league is on notice to deal with the Heat?
8) That maybe other teams are hungrier than the Heat?
9) That other teams need to win now while the Heat may have 10 years to do their thing?
10) That if the Heat don't win by 2014, some of the Big 3 might opt out?

1- Miami has NBA Finals experience too..also, lack of Finals experience didn't stop many teams from winning..'99 Spurs, 2000 Lakers, 2004 Pistons, 2008 Celtics, just from this era alone..all those teams had less championship experience than the 2011 Heat will have..

2-:lol hunger..why isn't Miami "hungry"?..

3- What does this even mean?..

4- :lol..

5- Of course Lebron needed help, he's never had any..that's irrelevant though, what does this point have to do with the Heat winning a title next year?..

6- :lol You're talking about hypothetical FA signings now? :lol..

7- :lol On notice..yes, that will beat Miami, the rest of the league is "on notice"!..

8- Here's the hunger argument again, as usual..

9- :lol So in other words...hunger?..:lol..

10- What does this have to do with the Heat winning titles right now?..



I know your username has the word troll in it, and when you combine that with your hilarious arguments, it would make sense that you're a troll, but whatever, I spent time arguing with you anyways, I gave you what you wanted..now take me out of your sig, it's embarrassing for you..

[ducks]

I'm not willing to go as far as saying the Heat will win 72(although they obviously could), but they should easily win the title, as I've been saying..I will never post here again if they don't, barring injury..

games are won on court not paper
ask the yankees

[HarlemHeat37]

The Yankees are the best team in baseball and were last year too..so are you trying to say that the Heat are going to win, Ducky?..

[namlook]

This is the same Van Gundy that last year said the Cavs were clearly the best team in the NBA and that he can't see anyone beating them for the championship.

[HarlemHeat37]

Van Gundy's opinion is irrelevant, that's not the reason anybody believes Miami will win 72..

The opinions of analysts and such are overrated, especially when you see that some of them still believe that Kobe is the best player in the NBA, which is clearly false..

[TIMMYtoZO]

The Yankees are the best team in baseball and were last year too..so are you trying to say that the Heat are going to win, Ducky?..


Wait. You are a Heat AND a Yankees fan? Wow. Why are you in here acting like such a badass defending the heat? I don't mind you riding the heat but the Yankees too? What a fucking frontrunning fan.:rolleyes

[Chillen]

The Heat with James, Bosh and Wade and team that surrounds them have a shot at breaking the Bulls 72-10 record, but so did the Celtics in 2008, they got off to a great start. They have the potential to be amazing with that core, but if injurys happen or they have off games, people are in for a huge reality check. Boston has a deeper team, but Miami has 3 superstars. I wouldn't rule it out but like I said people including the Miami players are probably in for a reality check. The Heat need to focus on having a great season and being ready for the playoffs, they could go 82-0 and lose to Boston or the Lakers in the playoffs. The Bulls always said it best, 72-10 don't mean a thing without the ring.

[HarlemHeat37]

Wait. You are a Heat AND a Yankees fan? Wow. Why are you in here acting like such a badass defending the heat? I don't mind you riding the heat but the Yankees too? What a fucking frontrunning fan.:rolleyes

:lol

I'm not a Heat fan, nor am I a Yankees fan, I'm a Lebron fan..I'm not a die-hard baseball fan..

Are you going to say that the Yankees haven't been the best team in baseball?..they are the defending Champs, and they have the best record in baseball..

[mingus]

i don't see how anyone can argue against the reality of this. Lebron already led one of his Cavs teams to a 66 win season and now he's on a much better team. This team can definitely be 7 wins better than that 66 win team.

[lotr1trekkie]

Unless the Heat are going to score 120 per game who is else is going to be allowed to shot. The Magi averaged ,together, 80 per game. Who will sacrifice? If they all give up 8 pts. a game it might work. The big O is a shooter. Howard is so old his teammates on the Fab 5 are long retired. Miller is a great shooter but how many looks is he going to get.
Too early to predict. I would hate to try and coach the Magi.

[Red Hawk #21]

This should be a really fun season. Personally, I don't think the Heat should even bother trying to win 72 games. I'm not saying they shouldn't win as much as they can, but I think going after the Bulls record will exhaust them by the end of the season. They should just try to win as much as possible, and try to keep getting better as the season progresses. Then when it's playoff time, they have bring their "A" game. Because that's when the other teams will be attacking, and playing their hardest.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Trolling abd whipping your sorry ass is so easy:


Do you have a link that says these teams were expected to win 70 games?..

They all exist and you know it. Many are right here at SpursTalk, do a search. I am not going to trace them all down, but you know when the Lakers added Malone and Payton they were saying 70 wins. Plus, how many did the Mavs win in 2007? Mavs were supposed to get revenge and do better in 2008.
Here's just a couple answering your request:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Rasheed-Wallace-Celtics-can-surpass-Bulls-72-w?urn=nba-195434
Then theres's this one from last year tracking Lakes and Cavs wins. There was one the year before and sometimes Boston was on it and whoever was in third place was dropped.
http://proxy.espn.go.com/nba/features/best


You didn't explain anything :lol..you gave poor analysis that was centered around the "hunger" of other teams, completely ignoring the on-court part, completely focusing on unquantifiable arguments like "hunger":lmao..

Poor analysis? Your opinion only. Yet you base your reasoning on the "On-Court" part which is extremely speculative. How many games have the Miami superfriends played together? None. LMAO, talk about flawed logic, you excel at it! Every team has hunger and those with experience do well. History is full of examples, wake up and look. I don't have to prove this, any knowledgeable fan knows it. Why did the Celtics go so deep into the playoffs last season? Hunger and experience. You fail.


The fact that you continue to update your sig with poor examples of "owning" people is hilarious..

Again, your opinion, that you hold alone. Everyone else is enjoying the ass fucking you are getting from me.


So your only explanation here is that Bosh isn't good enough..would you like to explain why he's a "weak link"?..instead of just making statements and not backing them up, as you always do..

Well, how much playoff experience does Bosh have? How will he handle the physical play that's going to rough him up on the inside? This has all been discussed before. If he was tough like Kendrick Perkins he wouldn't be a weak link.



Once again, this is your argument..you continue to make statements, yet you don't back anything up..

"Miami just isn't ready"

"Why?"

"They just aren't, that's my opinion"



See below. Also, much of your argument is your opinion.


1- Miami has NBA Finals experience too..also, lack of Finals experience didn't stop many teams from winning..'99 Spurs, 2000 Lakers, 2004 Pistons, 2008 Celtics, just from this era alone..all those teams had less championship experience than the 2011 Heat will have..

LOL. Major fail. Miami as constructed has no championship experience. That's like saying the current Lakers team can count 2000-02 as champiobship experience from that team. 2 players from each team have championship experience going back to their old titles. Kobe, Fisher, Wade, and Haslem.



2-:lol hunger..why isn't Miami "hungry"?..

As mentioned above every team is hungry. Not every team will win either.


3- What does this even mean?..

You don't understand this? Man you are stupid. I'll repeat it:
3) They can't be counted out until their teams windows closed? I even gave the years.
So you don't understand that the Spurs are contenders for as long a Duncan is playing, the Celtics are contenders while Pierce, Garnett, and Allen are playing, and the Lakers are contenders for as long as Kobe and Gasol are playing. That's it, go ahead and write these teams off. Last year, how many people wrote the Lakers and Celtics off early? Lakers were going to lose to the Thunder and Miami was going to beat Boston. Ask Bill Simmons about that. You might as well just hand the trophy to Miami in April and skip the playoffs for the next 8 years. You can't write teams with championship experience off, period. Ask the 1968 and 1969 Celtics who upset the Sixers and the Lakers (everyone else before that as well). Ask the 1995 Rockets who upset everyone.


4- :lol..

You scoff at this point?
4) That there may be more great teams now than at any time in NBA history?
I said there may be, and you laugh. I'll play your trick. Show me why we don't have a bunch of great teams and show me a year where we had more. Man, you are digging yourself into a deep hole.


5- Of course Lebron needed help, he's never had any..that's irrelevant though, what does this point have to do with the Heat winning a title next year?..

How much help LeBron had may be best decided by how the Cavs do this year, without him. It does have a lot to do with the Heat winning a title because LeBron is taking on a new role, from a leader to a follower. Someone has to lead, someone has to follow. We don't know yet how it will play out. Again, with 0 games in the bank, it's all speculation on your part.


6- :lol You're talking about hypothetical FA signings now? :lol..

yep, I sure am. as noted before the NBA is going to adjust to the Heat, just as it adjusts to champions. A Knick team with CP3 and Melo is another contender for the Heat to go through. that means things are tougher for the superfriends. As noted elsewhere, suppose the Heat play those Knicks. Say Miami has a 55% shot of winning. You would have us believe it's 100% and it isn't. The series have to be played.


7- :lol On notice..yes, that will beat Miami, the rest of the league is "on notice"!..

Yep, explained above


8- Here's the hunger argument again, as usual..

Yep, and it's a good one when combined with championship experience.


9- :lol So in other words...hunger?..:lol..

Yes, it's a completely valid point. Lakers, Spurs, Celtics and Mavs pretty much have to win now with their key pieces or forget it. The Heat are young and have plenty of time to win. It took West and Chamberlain years to win a title. same with Oscar Robertson, Julius Erving, and Moses Malone. How about Hakeem and Drexler? You just think they win now and for the next 8 years. Congratulations, you bought LeBron's spin.


10- What does this have to do with the Heat winning titles right now?..

If the Heat don't win right now, the pressure is on every year through 2014. That's what it has to do with the Heat winning now or not.


I know your username has the word troll in it, and when you combine that with your hilarious arguments, it would make sense that you're a troll, but whatever, I spent time arguing with you anyways, I gave you what you wanted..now take me out of your sig, it's embarrassing for you..

Tell you what. I'll fight as long as you wish, but you are clearly beaten. Come back for more if you want. No, I won't take you out of my signature. you want me out because I rained on your parade and your precious little posting award.

You think you won this battle I say you clearly lost? Let's see who comes to your assistance. No, your alter egos don't count. Neither does your or my opinion on the issues. however snce no one else has challenged me, I say everyone thinks I have whipped you. I don't think anyone is going to come to your aid because they don't wish to get owned as badly as you have.

Thanks for being my bitch.

[DPG21920]

I agree with HH. Your arguments suck.

[HarlemHeat37]

They all exist and you know it. Many are right here at SpursTalk, do a search. I am not going to trace them all down, but you know when the Lakers added Malone and Payton they were saying 70 wins. Plus, how many did the Mavs win in 2007? Mavs were supposed to get revenge and do better in 2008.

I know no such thing..especially about the 2008 Mavs, what the fuck?:lol..



Here's just a couple answering your request:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Rasheed-Wallace-Celtics-can-surpass-Bulls-72-w?urn=nba-195434
Then theres's this one from last year tracking Lakes and Cavs wins. There was one the year before and sometimes Boston was on it and whoever was in third place was dropped.
http://proxy.espn.go.com/nba/features/best

:lol Rasheed Wallace saying that about his own team is proof that the Pistons were expected to win 70?..

Your 2nd link is an article that talks about the projected wins for teams that were already on pace to come close or surpass 70 with a bunch of games having been already played..those teams had already played the games, and neither of them were "expected" to win 70 games..

You haven't shown that any team has been "expected" to win 70..even the Bulls team that won 72 wasn't expected to win that many games..nobody expects a team to win that many, let alone the fact that you named like 10 teams that you said were expected to win that many:lol..


Poor analysis? Your opinion only. Yet you base your reasoning on the "On-Court" part which is extremely speculative. How many games have the Miami superfriends played together? None. LMAO, talk about flawed logic, you excel at it! Every team has hunger and those with experience do well. History is full of examples, wake up and look. I don't have to prove this, any knowledgeable fan knows it. Why did the Celtics go so deep into the playoffs last season? Hunger and experience. You fail.

It's not my opinion only, look at what DPG says..anybody that reads any of your arguments can see how horrible they are..

I just gave you examples of many teams from this era alone that didn't have much title experience, yet they ended up winning the NBA title..

The "on court" analysis part is clearly valid..these guys aren't rookies, they have played in the NBA for years..the fact that you have no ability to analyze their styles of play and how they will fit together speaks volumes on your lack of knowledge in regards to basketball..


Again, your opinion, that you hold alone. Everyone else is enjoying the ass fucking you are getting from me.

Please, stop making comments like this, it's really embarrassing..


See below. Also, much of your argument is your opinion.

No, I've already given my reasons for Miami winning a title in many threads..I actually gave arguments, as I always do..


LOL. Major fail. Miami as constructed has no championship experience. That's like saying the current Lakers team can count 2000-02 as champiobship experience from that team. 2 players from each team have championship experience going back to their old titles. Kobe, Fisher, Wade, and Haslem.

Miami has Dwyane Wade and Haslem that have won an NBA title, so apparently that equals no championship experience? :rollin..Lebron led a team to the NBA Finals, is that irrelevant?..

Again, '99 Spurs, 2000 Lakers, 2004 Pistons, 2006 Heat(using your logic) and 2008 Celtics had no championship experience, yet they won titles..how do you explain that?..

Your logic makes no sense in regards to the Spurs..the Spurs only have 3 players with title experience, yet you keep using them as an example of an "experienced team", while disregarding the Heat because they only have 2 players with title experience..how does that make any sense?..what kind of contradictory shit is that?..



You don't understand this? Man you are stupid. I'll repeat it:
3) They can't be counted out until their teams windows closed? I even gave the years.
So you don't understand that the Spurs are contenders for as long a Duncan is playing, the Celtics are contenders while Pierce, Garnett, and Allen are playing, and the Lakers are contenders for as long as Kobe and Gasol are playing. That's it, go ahead and write these teams off. Last year, how many people wrote the Lakers and Celtics off early? Lakers were going to lose to the Thunder and Miami was going to beat Boston. Ask Bill Simmons about that. You might as well just hand the trophy to Miami in April and skip the playoffs for the next 8 years. You can't write teams with championship experience off, period. Ask the 1968 and 1969 Celtics who upset the Sixers and the Lakers (everyone else before that as well). Ask the 1995 Rockets who upset everyone.

What does this have to do with anything?..I believe Miami is better than these teams, I've already explained why..

The Spurs window is closed, most Spurs fans will agree..

:lol Who the fuck wrote the Lakers off?..why are you making shit up?..


4) That there may be more great teams now than at any time in NBA history?
I said there may be, and you laugh. I'll play your trick. Show me why we don't have a bunch of great teams and show me a year where we had more. Man, you are digging yourself into a deep hole.

:lol The entire 80s had more "great teams" than the current NBA, for starters..there wasn't a "great team" last year..


yep, I sure am. as noted before the NBA is going to adjust to the Heat, just as it adjusts to champions. A Knick team with CP3 and Melo is another contender for the Heat to go through. that means things are tougher for the superfriends. As noted elsewhere, suppose the Heat play those Knicks. Say Miami has a 55% shot of winning. You would have us believe it's 100% and it isn't. The series have to be played.

Again, you're giving me hypothetical situations about FA signings :lol..

Ok, how about this..what if the Heat split the MLE next year on Carmelo Anthony and Tim Duncan?..wow, amazing..



Yes, it's a completely valid point. Lakers, Spurs, Celtics and Mavs pretty much have to win now with their key pieces or forget it. The Heat are young and have plenty of time to win. It took West and Chamberlain years to win a title. same with Oscar Robertson, Julius Erving, and Moses Malone. How about Hakeem and Drexler? You just think they win now and for the next 8 years. Congratulations, you bought LeBron's spin.

So the Heat are going to bend over for the older teams because those teams have to "win now" and the Heat will have time to "win later"?..:rollin


Tell you what. I'll fight as long as you wish, but you are clearly beaten. Come back for more if you want. No, I won't take you out of my signature. you want me out because I rained on your parade and your precious little posting award.

You think you won this battle I say you clearly lost? Let's see who comes to your assistance. No, your alter egos don't count. Neither does your or my opinion on the issues. however snce no one else has challenged me, I say everyone thinks I have whipped you. I don't think anyone is going to come to your aid because they don't wish to get owned as badly as you have.

Thanks for being my bitch.

Please, stop, raise the bar..

[DPG21920]

But he is trolling so.....

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

I agree with HH. Your arguments suck.

If you don't say why my statements suck, your post has no credibility. HH37 is still on his own, no support. Want to join my biyotch list? There is room for more, just join the argument. If you look at my posts, you''ll find I always have good comments about the Spurs, and used some of my arguments today to show why the Spurs may beat the Lakers next year. HH37 is not a Spurs fan. He signed up with Heat in his name and Spurs as his team and no one caught on until the superfriends came together.

[DPG21920]

What does painting the Spurs in a positive light have to do with anything? Your Heat arguments suck. As Harlem took the time to explain.

But I don't troll, so I am done with you.

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't understand what me being "on my own" has to do with anything :lol..I'm supposed to have a crew or something?..

By saying that the current Spurs can beat the Lakers in a 7-game series, it doesn't make you appeal to our fanbase more, it just makes you look like an idiot:lol..most Spurs fans don't believe our team can beat the Lakers, at least I hope they don't..

[Killakobe81]

Van Gundy's opinion is irrelevant, that's not the reason anybody believes Miami will win 72..

The opinions of analysts and such are overrated, especially when you see that some of them still believe that Kobe is the best player in the NBA, which is clearly false..

Please stop, we know you feel already ...Kobe is overrated and Lebron is Mj incarnate ...


Did you swallow Chrisrichards or something? You used to be better ..you ALSO need to raise the bar.

[DPG21920]

Kobe is not overrated. He is great. He is just not the best in the NBA player any more.

[Supergirl]

hmm, sounds like what I said in a thread a week ago

The Heat were the 3rd best defensive team in the league last season, WITH JERMAINE O'NEAL PLAYING CENTER!

Subtract Jermaine O'Neal (went to Boston)
Add Chris Bosh, Big Z, Juwan Howard

Everything else is pretty much the same at the PF and C spots.

Expect 72-10 to be broken

I just don't see the average to below average teams have any shot to beat the Heat in regular season games.

LOL, I'm not sure defensively speaking that Bosh is an upgrade over Jermaine ONeal. Bosh couldn't defend his way out of a paper bag. I'll be surprised if moving 2000 miles south magically changes that.

Is it just me or does this happen every year? Team X is so, so good, they will definitely break the 72 game mark. Blah blah blah.

It's not gonna happen. Reality is, the Heat will be considered a major bust if they don't win at least 60 games and a championship next year. But neither of those things are by any means guaranteed. It's a long season.

[Supergirl]

Kobe is not overrated. He is great. He is just not the best in the NBA player any more.

Who are you suggesting is better than him right now? I don't like Kobe much, and I hate the Lakers, but he's CLEARLY the best player in the NBA right now.

[Killakobe81]

I dont think they will win 72 ...but I hope they waste energy during the regulkar season TRYING to get there ...

As for Kobe I think everyone knows on a day in day out basis Lebron passed Kobe as player.
BUT you still need a title to cement that or to "pass the torch" ...
MJ was better than Magic, Bird and Isiah BEFORE he got a title ...but until you ring that title of best player is awfully hollow.And is not validated.
So you guys can annoint Lebron the best player all you want and make excuses but the best in the game needs titles ...period. Without one the MVP's PER title etc are all bullshit.
Dirk, nash, Malone Lebron all have MVP's and cases were made they were the best player at one point or another ...
Duncan, Shaq, Kobe and Wade have rings THAT is what matters.

I think It's only a matter of time before Lebron wins ..and when he does I won't be mad because I respect his game. BUT he does not win that argument without hesitation until he does ...

[mystargtr34]

R2JG1AFFTnk

Lol Jordan was bad-ass

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

I know no such thing..especially about the 2008 Mavs, what the fuck?:lol..




:lol Rasheed Wallace saying that about his own team is proof that the Pistons were expected to win 70?..

Your 2nd link is an article that talks about the projected wins for teams that were already on pace to come close or surpass 70 with a bunch of games having been already played..those teams had already played the games, and neither of them were "expected" to win 70 games..

You haven't shown that any team has been "expected" to win 70..even the Bulls team that won 72 wasn't expected to win that many games..nobody expects a team to win that many, let alone the fact that you named like 10 teams that you said were expected to win that many:lol..

Did you search this forum for fans that predicted 70 wins? no, I bet you didn't. Go look, they're there.

Where did I say the Pistons were going to win 70 game?

The espn link the last two years was updated game by game because there was an interest if the Bulls record would be broken. This in itself suggests predictions were made and that there was an interest if it could be done. Today, the local sports paper compared graphs of Nicklaus's and Wood's major wins and the time frame they did them in. Woods has 14 and needs 18 and is ahead of Nicklaus's pace by age. His play just sucks this year.

There is always an interest when records may be broken. Houston's 22 game streak in 2008, Celtics string of game 7 wins over the Lakers, etc, etc.

I have shown plenty that teams were expected to win 70 games. You have shown nothing to say they won't and a search (even here at SpursTalk) is going to kill your case. You lost, end of discussion on 70 game teams, Unless you wish to make a financial wager.




It's not my opinion only, look at what DPG says..anybody that reads any of your arguments can see how horrible they are..
and I answered DPG, go read it. Let's see if he takes my challenge.


I just gave you examples of many teams from this era alone that didn't have much title experience, yet they ended up winning the NBA title..
Ok, I agree teams do win without championship experience, that's by force. otherwise we would have a 64 time champion. however, more teams are winning recently with championship experience than not. 3 exist as constructed by their cores today:

Spurs 3 titles
Lakers 2 titles
Celtics 1 title.

Heat of 2006, Pistons of 2004 do not exist today as they were back then.


The "on court" analysis part is clearly valid..these guys aren't rookies, they have played in the NBA for years..the fact that you have no ability to analyze their styles of play and how they will fit together speaks volumes on your lack of knowledge in regards to basketball..

It isn't valid. It's simple and pure speculation. Malone and Payton played for years and couldn't win with the Lakers. Wilt joined two losers, West and Baylor, and couldn't win with them either. Barkley played for years and couldn't win with the Suns. You're homerism and speculation fails to my basketball knowledge.

I don't see any point in analyzing how the Miami superfriends will play together when they haven't played a single game. It's all pure speculation. Who gets the ball the most? How will the egos mesh? It's all speculation. Until they have a season under their belt, it's anyone's guess. Granted, there have been many opinions speculating how Miami will play, but until they do it's pure speculation. Speculation in an argument doesn't work. This was proven millennia ago by great minds such as Plato and Aristotle. Do you know more than they do? At least teams with championship experience can be forecast a lot easier. If you're going to speculate you have to weigh what has gone on before rather than what has yet to happen as far more valuable. Those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it. That's why teams win multiple championships, they remember the past and repeat it.



Please, stop making comments like this, it's really embarrassing..

Yeah, it's embarrassing you, and you brought it on yourself.




No, I've already given my reasons for Miami winning a title in many threads..I actually gave arguments, as I always do..

Yep, and you speculate. Already dealt with.



Miami has Dwyane Wade and Haslem that have won an NBA title, so apparently that equals no championship experience? :rollin..Lebron led a team to the NBA Finals, is that irrelevant?..

It is championship experience for 2 players, not for a team. Dwight Howard led a team to the NBA finals, so did Dirk. As long as they play, they are itching to get back. So is LeBron. However, they all still lack championship experience.


Again, '99 Spurs, 2000 Lakers, 2004 Pistons, 2006 Heat(using your logic) and 2008 Celtics had no championship experience, yet they won titles..how do you explain that?..

Dealt with this above. someone new has to win, else we'd have 1 champion for 64 years. What's key is 99 spurs and 2000 Lakers capitalized on their championship experience and won multiple titles. Shaq's Lakers won 3, Kobe's Lakers won 2. Duncan and DRob won 2, Duncan, Ginobili and Parker won 3, crossing over with DRob in 2003. Celtics won one and are still in the hunt. that's the team that's I think will beat Miami in 2011, and may win banner 18.


Your logic makes no sense in regards to the Spurs..the Spurs only have 3 players with title experience, yet you keep using them as an example of an "experienced team", while disregarding the Heat because they only have 2 players with title experience..how does that make any sense?..what kind of contradictory shit is that?..



geez, you really are stupid. The core of the Spurs is Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili, all 3 are the key comtributors.
2000-02 Lakes the core was Shaq and Kobe
2009-10 Lakers the core is Kobe and Gasol
Note: Derek Fisher was not a core piece in either Lakers era

You are placing Haslem as a core piece to Miami from 2006 to 2011? LOL, he is the Derek Fisher or worse to the Heat.

here's your core, in case you forgot:

Wade
James
Bosh

Unless one guy can join the party, a la Rajon Rondo in Boston and their big 3, that will be the Heat core if they stay together. If they haven't won by 2014, I say it breaks up.



What does this have to do with anything?..I believe Miami is better than these teams, I've already explained why..

You still don't think championship experience counts? well, history says it does. It's all been pointed out.


The Spurs window is closed, most Spurs fans will agree..

Really? Do you have statistics to back this up? What percentage of Spurs fans say they are done? Link please. Need a sample size that is statistically significant, and purely random. you do understand the laws of statistics I hope, it took centuries for the great mathematical minds to develop them. By the way, I have taught statistics in college before and tutor grad students as well.

By the way, a lot of Spurs fans have given up, and a lot haven't. Look here: http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160431
Why should Spurs fans even bother rooting for them if they're done?


:lol Who the fuck wrote the Lakers off?..why are you making shit up?..

A lot of Lakers fans wrote the Lakers off in April when they lost most their ending regular season games. Even Lakers fans quit on them against OKC. No you don't get a link. It won't look good for you if I do. Just visit any Lakers board about that time, you'll see.


:lol The entire 80s had more "great teams" than the current NBA, for starters..there wasn't a "great team" last year..

Whoah, whoah, whoah Nelly! Read the question. I asked for a given year to compare with 2010-11. you throw a whole decade at me!
In the 1980's there were usually 3 great teams.
1980-84, Celtics, Sixers, Lakers
1985-87 Celtics, Lakers.
1988-89 Lakers, Pistons, Celtics.
Bulls came along in the 1990s.

2011 best teams:

Celtics
Magic
Heat
Bulls
Lakers
Spurs
Mavs
OKC
Blazers
Nuggets

That's 10 teams. Throw half out and you still have 5. Show me a year with more than 5.

there wasn't a great team last year? Well, some said the 2010 Celtics were better than the 2008 Celtics. So when was there a great team in the NBA? Lakers and Celtics proved to be the best two last year. the other potentially great teams didn't make it, someone has to lose.





Again, you're giving me hypothetical situations about FA signings :lol..

Ok, how about this..what if the Heat split the MLE next year on Carmelo Anthony and Tim Duncan?..wow, amazing..


yes, it's hypothetical. something will happen along this line a well as other players decide to try to win as well. I say it's more likely to happen than it not happening. That's my opinion and it's perfectly logical.



So the Heat are going to bend over for the older teams because those teams have to "win now" and the Heat will have time to "win later"?..:rollin

the Heat will be bent over. That's my opinion. the Heat have plenty of time to win. First, they have to learn to play together. You expect too much too soon. Prepare to be disappointed at first. then take it season by season. Heat haven't even won yet, let alone learned how hard it is to repeat. Do that, and you have a right to boast. Right now, you impress no one but yourself.



Please, stop, raise the bar..
Dude, get a clue. Everything you say I turn against you and expose your weak arguing skills further.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

I don't understand what me being "on my own" has to do with anything :lol..I'm supposed to have a crew or something?..

By saying that the current Spurs can beat the Lakers in a 7-game series, it doesn't make you appeal to our fanbase more, it just makes you look like an idiot:lol..most Spurs fans don't believe our team can beat the Lakers, at least I hope they don't..

How do we settle who won? If someone wants to back you up, they can state their case and argue with me. you can jump in too. If someone wants to say I won, they can state their case and you can argue with them.

your flawed logic proves you are an idiot. I don't care if anyone likes me here or not. So far, I have gotten pretty decent respect. However, I am here to argue with idiots if that's what they want. It's what you want. I called you out for not arguing and look what happened, you got your ass handed to you when you engaged me. It's only going to get worse if you keep it up.

[HarlemHeat37]

Did you search this forum for fans that predicted 70 wins? no, I bet you didn't. Go look, they're there.

The opinion of random fans is relevant, how?..I bet you I could find many, many more fans that predicted that teams wouldn't win 70, as opposed to the 1 or 2 fans that predicted 70, which is what you're claiming..


Where did I say the Pistons were going to win 70 game?

I meant Rasheed's Celtics, my mistake..


The espn link the last two years was updated game by game because there was an interest if the Bulls record would be broken. This in itself suggests predictions were made and that there was an interest if it could be done. Today, the local sports paper compared graphs of Nicklaus's and Wood's major wins and the time frame they did them in. Woods has 14 and needs 18 and is ahead of Nicklaus's pace by age. His play just sucks this year.

Like I said, they brought it up because those teams were ON PACE, not because they were expected to do it..simple logic..


I have shown plenty that teams were expected to win 70 games. You have shown nothing to say they won't and a search (even here at SpursTalk) is going to kill your case. You lost, end of discussion on 70 game teams, Unless you wish to make a financial wager.

You didn't show anything, what the fuck:lol..you gave links for 3 teams..1 of them was a player that actually played for that team making that prediction:rollin..the other link was about 2 teams that were on pace to compete with the record, well into the season..



and I answered DPG, go read it. Let's see if he takes my challenge.

:lol stupidity..DPG is a respected poster here, he shouldn't bother with you..


Ok, I agree teams do win without championship experience, that's by force. otherwise we would have a 64 time champion. however, more teams are winning recently with championship experience than not. 3 exist as constructed by their cores today:

Spurs 3 titles
Lakers 2 titles
Celtics 1 title.

What the fuck are you talking about? :lol..

You're going against your point here..the 2003 Spurs won with only Duncan and Robinson having experience, the 2009 Lakers won with only Kobe and Fisher having experience, and the Celtics had no experience..

If you're going to bring up their current cores as an example of experience, you're completely contradicting your previous point that teams need experience to win titles..you can't bring up these teams and ignore the 2003 Spurs, 2008 Celtics and 2009 Lakers lacking experience by your chosen logic..



I don't see any point in analyzing how the Miami superfriends will play together when they haven't played a single game. It's all pure speculation. Who gets the ball the most? How will the egos mesh? It's all speculation. Until they have a season under their belt, it's anyone's guess. Granted, there have been many opinions speculating how Miami will play, but until they do it's pure speculation. Speculation in an argument doesn't work. This was proven millennia ago by great minds such as Plato and Aristotle. Do you know more than they do? At least teams with championship experience can be forecast a lot easier. If you're going to speculate you have to weigh what has gone on before rather than what has yet to happen as far more valuable. Those that forget the past are doomed to repeat it. That's why teams win multiple championships, they remember the past and repeat it.

The same way I predicted the 2008 Celtics would win the title..the same way a lot of people predicted the 2008 Celtics would win..there's plenty of reason to believe Miami will win, just by thinking logically..the 2 best players in the NBA, an all-star big man, a great balance of inside-outside offense, a good bench, good spacing, great rebounding, a good defensive system..



Dealt with this above. someone new has to win, else we'd have 1 champion for 64 years. What's key is 99 spurs and 2000 Lakers capitalized on their championship experience and won multiple titles. Shaq's Lakers won 3, Kobe's Lakers won 2. Duncan and DRob won 2, Duncan, Ginobili and Parker won 3, crossing over with DRob in 2003. Celtics won one and are still in the hunt. that's the team that's I think will beat Miami in 2011, and may win banner 18.

You're contradicting yourself, once again..

You even just brought up the '99 Spurs and 2000 Lakers to try to help your argument, when in fact, it completely proves your argument about "experience" to be false:lol..


geez, you really are stupid. The core of the Spurs is Duncan, Parker, and Ginobili, all 3 are the key comtributors.
2000-02 Lakes the core was Shaq and Kobe
2009-10 Lakers the core is Kobe and Gasol
Note: Derek Fisher was not a core piece in either Lakers era

You are placing Haslem as a core piece to Miami from 2006 to 2011? LOL, he is the Derek Fisher or worse to the Heat.

Haslem will play a lot of minutes beside Bosh, but that's not the point..

You're disregarding the fact that Miami has more championship and Finals experience than many of the teams that completely lacked Finals experience during this era, yet still won the title..'99 Spurs, 2000 Lakers, 2004 Pistons, 2008 Celtics..that was my original point, which you continue to disregard..

Using your logic, which is that an entire team has to have experience, than the 2003 Spurs, 2006 Heat and 2009 Lakers had no experience either..

So overall, using your logic, the only teams that had any championship experience during this era were the 2001 and 2002 Lakers, the 2005 Spurs, the 2007 Spurs and the 2010 Lakers..

The Heat core has Finals experience, Wade and Lebron, their 2 best players, and the 2 best players in the NBA....



You still don't think championship experience counts? well, history says it does. It's all been pointed out.

No, history says that championship talent wins..


Really? Do you have statistics to back this up? What percentage of Spurs fans say they are done? Link please. Need a sample size that is statistically significant, and purely random. you do understand the laws of statistics I hope, it took centuries for the great mathematical minds to develop them. By the way, I have taught statistics in college before and tutor grad students as well.

Go make a thread about it on the Spurs board..any logical Spurs fan will tell you that the chances of the Spurs making the Finals are very poor..


A lot of Lakers fans wrote the Lakers off in April when they lost most their ending regular season games. Even Lakers fans quit on them against OKC. No you don't get a link. It won't look good for you if I do. Just visit any Lakers board about that time, you'll see.

The Lakers were the favorite to win the NBA title..nobody gave up on them..


Whoah, whoah, whoah Nelly! Read the question. I asked for a given year to compare with 2010-11. you throw a whole decade at me!
In the 1980's there were usually 3 great teams.
1980-84, Celtics, Sixers, Lakers
1985-87 Celtics, Lakers.
1988-89 Lakers, Pistons, Celtics.
Bulls came along in the 1990s.

2011 best teams:

Celtics
Magic
Heat
Bulls
Lakers
Spurs
Mavs
OKC
Blazers
Nuggets

That's 10 teams. Throw half out and you still have 5. Show me a year with more than 5.

:lol Wait, which ones are the great teams?..why are you naming all those teams?..Nuggets? Blazers? OKC? Dallas? SA? Chicago? Orlando? :lol..


there wasn't a great team last year? Well, some said the 2010 Celtics were better than the 2008 Celtics. So when was there a great team in the NBA? Lakers and Celtics proved to be the best two last year. the other potentially great teams didn't make it, someone has to lose.

:lol Who said the 2010 Celtics were better than the 2008 Celtics?..seriously?..:rollin


the Heat will be bent over. That's my opinion. the Heat have plenty of time to win. First, they have to learn to play together. You expect too much too soon. Prepare to be disappointed at first. then take it season by season. Heat haven't even won yet, let alone learned how hard it is to repeat. Do that, and you have a right to boast. Right now, you impress no one but yourself.

How does this prove your ridiculous argument that the Heat are at a disadvantage because other teams "have to win now"?..

[SomeCallMeTim]

I actually said "barring injury" from the beginning..Blessings being Blessings..



:lol Laker fans..

You do realize your "gutsy" call covers most Finals-losing teams or preseason favorites of the past decade, right? Your qualification would excuse the last 2 Lakers losses in the Finals, for example. Would also cover Boston this year and I've seen plenty make the excuse for Orlando last year ("Jameer was rusty, came back too early" "Jameer was still hurt"). The '99 Knicks, '00 Spurs, '01 Sixers, '03 Lakers all say hi, too.

Way to run with the favorites and still manage to hedge your bets. Really out on a limb there. :lol

[HarlemHeat37]

You do realize your "gutsy" call covers most Finals-losing teams or preseason favorites of the past decade, right? Your qualification would excuse the last 2 Lakers losses in the Finals, for example. Would also cover Boston this year and I've seen plenty make the excuse for Orlando last year ("Jameer was rusty, came back too early" "Jameer was still hurt"). The '99 Knicks, '00 Spurs, '01 Sixers, '03 Lakers all say hi, too.

Way to run with the favorites and still manage to hedge your bets. Really out on a limb there. :lol

I mean injury, as in one of their rotation players having an injury that severely affects their ability and makes them miss time..not like Kobe's "injuries" or any "banged up" injuries..

It's not a "gutsy call", I never said it was..Miami should win the title..

[SomeCallMeTim]

This Miami team clearly has the potential to win 72+ games. However, pretty unlikely they do it. Record-setting dominance like that is rare for a reason: it is an anomaly and really, really hard to do. Throw in the likelihood of some injuries, the fact that a team approaching that kind of a record would have a lot of "meaningless" games and therefore less incentive to win them, and just how hard teams are going to be gunning for this squad... and I just don't see it.

I expect they'll get the best record in the league though and could do so by a comfortable margin. Wild guess Miami at 67 wins with LA at 62.

[SouthTexasRancher]

ROTFFLMFAO ... Jeff Van Gundy ... ROTFFLMFAO...!

The guy is a fk'n loser and has always been one.

[Dex]

http://www.bothteamsplayedhard.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/vangundy.jpg

[SouthTexasRancher]

http://www.bothteamsplayedhard.net/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/vangundy.jpg

:tu:rollin:tu

[HeatChamps]

Gundy just telling the truth. Greatest team ever

[21_Blessings]

Did you swallow Chrisrichards or something?

The only thing Harlem likes to swallow is LeRobin's semen.

[SouthTexasRancher]

Gundy just telling the truth. Greatest team ever


Had Wade picked 2 winners like Tim Duncan and Kobe then I'd say 73 wins would be within sight but, Wade picked Bosh and an egotistical LOSER in little lebron. You'll just have to keep on dreaming!

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

The opinion of random fans is relevant, how?..I bet you I could find many, many more fans that predicted that teams wouldn't win 70, as opposed to the 1 or 2 fans that predicted 70, which is what you're claiming..



I meant Rasheed's Celtics, my mistake..



Like I said, they brought it up because those teams were ON PACE, not because they were expected to do it..simple logic..



You didn't show anything, what the fuck:lol..you gave links for 3 teams..1 of them was a player that actually played for that team making that prediction:rollin..the other link was about 2 teams that were on pace to compete with the record, well into the season..



The issue is predicted 70 win seasons, not how many predicted who wouldn't win 70 or howm any said they would win 70. Stop trying to twist the argument. Here's 4 predictions by the way including one for the Bulls to win 71 games in 2011. This includes Lakers, and Cavs from 2009-10, and Celtics from 2008-09. I'm not going to bother with more. There were multiple links available on all of them except the Bulls. Again the number who predicted them is not important. Once posted, articles get reposted and plenty thus appear some different, some not. fans that reply to threads count as a prediction as well. They back up what I said, 70 game win seasons.

http://nba.suite101.com/article.cfm/can_the_lakers_break_the_72win_season_record
http://www.ozcardtrader.com.au/forum/basketball-cards-general-discussion/40763-bulls-72-win-record-under-threat.html
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/425365-nba-rumors-tracy-mcgrady-says-chicago-bulls-can-win-more-than-70-games
http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=143854

Thanks for the rest of your argument. I'll commence ripping it to shreds momentarily.

[Jacob1983]

This is probably the dumbest thing JVG has ever said. No team is ever going to break that record. Getting 72 wins is extremely difficult to do. I don't think the Heat will even be good enough to have people talking about 72 wins during the regular season. I would be surprised if they get 60 wins. I honestly think that this Heat team is going to fail miserably and underachieve big time. The last great team to threaten the Bulls' record of 72 wins was the 1999-2000 Lakers. They came up short but could have done it.

[MiamiHeat]

Why is it that every time laker fan gets pissy or gets owned when debating me or HH37, they immediately think we are the same poster?

Why do some turds have such a hard time believing I live in Miami Florida and I am legit?

lol

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

What the fuck are you talking about? :lol..

You're going against your point here..the 2003 Spurs won with only Duncan and Robinson having experience, the 2009 Lakers won with only Kobe and Fisher having experience, and the Celtics had no experience..

If you're going to bring up their current cores as an example of experience, you're completely contradicting your previous point that teams need experience to win titles..you can't bring up these teams and ignore the 2003 Spurs, 2008 Celtics and 2009 Lakers lacking experience by your chosen logic..


Well, you really miss the point here. First the 2003 Spurs did win with experience, and you admit that. Then you say they didn't. Parker and Ginobili rode the coattails of TD and DR and gained experience for the next two years on a championship caliber team that allowed them to help win in 2005 and 2007 because they became keys to the core. 2008 Celtic won without experience yes. 2009 Lakers didn't have championship experience, but they at least had finals experience. Name the last team to win a finals after losing one the previous year. 1989 Pistons. Before that, you could say 1985 Lakers, who had championship experience or 1983 Sixers who had 2 finals losses to the Lakers. If anything this diminishes LeBron's 2007 experience, but that isn't the point. What the issue remains is that more teams are winning with championship experience than aren't. Quit trying to steer clear of this important issue. Three teams exist with their core intact with championship experience and two have won multiple times. My point is history is showing us championship experience has relevance in recent years.



The same way I predicted the 2008 Celtics would win the title..the same way a lot of people predicted the 2008 Celtics would win..there's plenty of reason to believe Miami will win, just by thinking logically..the 2 best players in the NBA, an all-star big man, a great balance of inside-outside offense, a good bench, good spacing, great rebounding, a good defensive system..


yes, there are reasons to believe the Heat could win. there are also reasons to believe they won't. I could make 30 accounts, one for each team, and troll this place all season, then take the one that predicted correctly and rub it in everyone's face. The 2 best players? Your opinion, and a minority one. when you keep going against the grain, you look like a homer and lose respect.



You're contradicting yourself, once again..

You even just brought up the '99 Spurs and 2000 Lakers to try to help your argument, when in fact, it completely proves your argument about "experience" to be false:lol..


wow, you just don't get it. The 1999 and 2000 Spurs and Lakers won their first titles and then proceeded to win multiple titles. Those were the foundation years, not repeat championships.This backs up my point that teams with championship experience are more likely to win than those without. Those were their first years, just as every team must have. Oh, we covered that already. New teams must win titles else we have a 64 time champion. If my wording was confusing, I apologize, but you should know by now that I value teams with championship experience.

Please explain how teams that win multiple titles proves that teams with championship experience don't win titles. Had the Spurs and Lakers never won again after 1999 and 2000 with their cores and we had different champs every season, I wouldn't have an argument, would I?

[TinTin]

I agree with HH. Your arguments suck.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Why is it that every time laker fan gets pissy or gets owned when debating me or HH37, they immediately think we are the same poster?

Why do some turds have such a hard time believing I live in Miami Florida and I am legit?

lol

Hey, it's my bitch MiamiHeat! Hi bitch! Still bitter about how I owned your ass regarding Kobe Bryant and the pre draft deal that earmarked him to be drafted by the Hornets and traded to the Lakers for Vlade Divac, never to play one minute for Charlotte?? See my signature for the links if you forgot.

everyone knows you're HarlemHeat37. Supposedly ChrisRichards too. Enjoying getting owned on your HH37 handle as well?

[DPG21920]

Who are you suggesting is better than him right now? I don't like Kobe much, and I hate the Lakers, but he's CLEARLY the best player in the NBA right now.

Lebron.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Haslem will play a lot of minutes beside Bosh, but that's not the point..

You're disregarding the fact that Miami has more championship and Finals experience than many of the teams that completely lacked Finals experience during this era, yet still won the title..'99 Spurs, 2000 Lakers, 2004 Pistons, 2008 Celtics..that was my original point, which you continue to disregard..

Using your logic, which is that an entire team has to have experience, than the 2003 Spurs, 2006 Heat and 2009 Lakers had no experience either..

So overall, using your logic, the only teams that had any championship experience during this era were the 2001 and 2002 Lakers, the 2005 Spurs, the 2007 Spurs and the 2010 Lakers..

The Heat core has Finals experience, Wade and Lebron, their 2 best players, and the 2 best players in the NBA....


Well, you just keep proving you can't argue. Miami as constructed, has one player with championship experience at their core and that's Wade. Wade can't win without Shaq anyway. Haslem <= Derek Fisher on all 5 Lakers championship teams. what part of Haslem isn't in your core do you not understand? Can he join the core? Yes, it's possible. Derek Fisher could also start defending fast point guards too and join the Lakers core.

Here's all that counts now. teams with championship experience at their core:
Spurs 3 titles. I already proved and you agreed and now contradict yourself a second time that the 2003 Spurs had championship experience.
Lakers 2 titles
Celtics 1 title.

there you go again, calling James and Wade the two best. Ok charlie. you're in the minority. Lebron has 4 finals game losses and no wins. At least Dirk won 2 games and Dwight one. Guess that makes LeBron hungry, right? LOL,. we knew that when "The Decision" aired.

This Miami team, with their core, needs finals experience. right now, they don't have it. If and when they get it they will either win or lose. Dr. J's Sixers lost 3 finals and a few ECF's before he won it all.

[Supergirl]

Lebron.


Talk to me after Lebron has won 5 NBA championships.

[DPG21920]

So TP and Manu are better than Lebron? Shaq?

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

No, history says that championship talent wins..


Well, I say championship experience wins, you say championship talent does. You can't win without talent but potential championship talent isn't the same thing as championship talent.

Let's look at multiple champions over the last 30 years:

Bulls 6 titles in 8 years, 1991-1998.
Lakers 5 titles in 9 years, 1980-1988
Lakers 5 titles in 11 years, 2000-2010
Spurs 4 titles in 9 years, 1999-2007
Celtics 3 titles in 6 years, 1981-1986.
Pistons: 2 titles in 2 years, 1989-1990.
Rockets: 2 titles in 2 years, 1994-1995.

that leaves only a handful of teams without multiple titles:
1983 Sixers
2004 Pistons
2006 Heat
2008 Celtics

Naturally, every team had to win it's first title, but most were able to win again.
the 1981 Celtics failed first year with Bird. Sixers and Lakers were better then them in 1982-83
the 1983 Sixers failed in 1977, 1980, and 1982
the 1980 Lakers (Kareem) needed Magic Johnson, and later James Worthy.
the 1991 Bulls was MJ's 7th season.
the 1989 Pistons lost in the finals in 1988 and the ECF in a heartbreaker in 1987.
the 1994 rockets needed MJ gone, and how many years with Hakeem?
The 1999 spurs failed in Duncan's first year. It took 4 more years to win again.
The 2000 Lakers needed Phil Jackson to get Shaq and Kobe going in their 4th year together
The 2004 Pistons failed just before in the ECF, 2003.
The 2006 Heat failed in 2005 in the ECF with HCA.
The 2008 Celtics were the first year one hit since maybe the 1977 Blazers. they dumped 2 superstars, Petrie and Wicks, got Mo Lucas and a few other key pieces to team with Walton and cleaned up the Lakers and Sixers.
The 2009 Lakers lost for 4 years without Shaq.

How many great players didn't win titles in this era?

LeBron, Bosh, Ewing, Barkley, Gervin, Malone, Nash, Dirk, Stockton, English, etc... etc....

See, Miami does one of two things if they win a title. they win in year 1 like the Celtics of 2008, or they win later, like every other championship team in the last 31 seasons did. History is not on their side I am afraid.

When the Heat win their first, then you can boast. History say you will then win more. But you haven't won jack shit yet. Until you do, all you have is potential championship talent. Don't try and spin this that the first year champions didn't have championship experience. the trend is multiple championships are the norm once a first is won. LeBron promised 8 of them if you recall. Based on the above list, 3 by the Heat is great, anything over that is gravy.

[MiamiHeat]

everyone knows you're HarlemHeat37. Supposedly ChrisRichards too. Enjoying getting owned on your HH37 handle as well?

anyone who believes that is a moron

obviously you're just a troll who lacks the skill to be a good one,

so enjoy failing! i certainly wont write another post to you :lmao

[HarlemHeat37]

Your arguments are all over the place, and they keep contradicting each other..it's saddening..

I have no idea why you keep bringing up title history for teams that won multiple titles..it ruins your entire argument, because all of those teams had to start somewhere, right?..

Yes, the Bulls won 6 titles..however, the 1991 title was Chicago's first, and how much championship experience did they have prior to that?..NONE..

The Lakers won 5 titles..their first title was in 1980..how much championship experience did they have prior to that?..NONE..

I already touched on the 2000 Lakers..same with the '99 Spurs..

The Pistons and Rockets had no championship experience prior to those years as well..

In fact, out of all these title teams, only 1 of them even had any Finals experience, which was the Pistons..

So you keep saying that Miami is at a disadvantage because the Spurs, Lakers and Celtics are "experienced", yet you're completely ignoring the fact that all the title teams you named had to start somewhere..all those teams had no championship experience prior to winning their 1st titles..in fact, with Wade and Lebron having won titles(Wade) and led a team to the Finals(Lebron), they actually have even more experience than the majority of those dynasties when they first began their run..

You're probably a troll, so the fact that I responded to you multiple times probably satisfied you, so I'll take a loss in case you aren't actually a troll..I find that difficult to believe though, since I don't think anybody could possibly be as bad as you in regards to making arguments..

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

I made an edit on my post, too late, All you want to do is twist things and talk about how teams that won their first title had no experience. Bullshit,. that's not the point. the point is you need it to win multiple titles and that's what you expect from the Heat, right? Most future championship teams had to lose before they won. The exceptions are noted, 2008 Celtics and 1977 Blazers.

you keep claiming I fail but you are failing, and I have more coming to refute your arguments.

[MiamiHeat]

You're probably a troll, so the fact that I responded to you multiple times probably satisfied you, so I'll take a loss in case you aren't actually a troll..I find that difficult to believe though, since I don't think anybody could possibly be as bad as you in regards to making arguments..

look at his fucking name dude lol

im surprised you even posted that much

[HarlemHeat37]

I know, posting ridiculously stupid and long arguments is probably his gimmick, so ya, like I said, I'll take the L..

He's a pretty good troll TBH, he makes it sound like he actually believes what he write..

[callo1]

JVG does not really believe this, he is simply saying this to make the Heat (Pat Riley) look bad when it doesn't happen. JVG's little brother got canned so Riles could take over, then went on to win a ring with that team.

That is how I read it anyway.

[TheKingOfMIA6]

Can we wait atleast until the season starts and then make predictions

Damn

[TheKingOfMIA6]

Why is it that every time laker fan gets pissy or gets owned when debating me or HH37, they immediately think we are the same poster?

Why do some turds have such a hard time believing I live in Miami Florida and I am legit?

lol

Because you own laker fans in an argument and they get butthurt and have nothing else to say

[Ace]

I made an edit on my post, too late, All you want to do is twist things and talk about how teams that won their first title had no experience. Bullshit,. that's not the point. the point is you need it to win multiple titles and that's what you expect from the Heat, right? Most future championship teams had to lose before they won. The exceptions are noted, 2008 Celtics and 1977 Blazers.

you keep claiming I fail but you are failing, and I have more coming to refute your arguments.

No, actually you have failed and now are trying to save face. In fact by adding links to people you "owned" is a fail in it self. Bet you won't add a link to this thread where Harlem bent you over for you obvious ignorance.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Go make a thread about it on the Spurs board..any logical Spurs fan will tell you that the chances of the Spurs making the Finals are very poor..


No. Threads like that already exist. Still waiting for you to report back with an accurate tally of what % of Spurs fans that feel that way are.



The Lakers were the favorite to win the NBA title..nobody gave up on them.


I told you not to go here, and you did. Here's a thread when the Lakers and OKC were tied 2-2.

http://thelakersnation.com/forums/index.php?/topic/37318-time-to-panic/

A lot of Lakers fans gave up. Locate the game 7 thread from the finals at that site. I heard lot of Lakers fans gave up in the 3rd quarter.

check out Lakersground and ClubLakers back in the early spring. Plenty of doubters among Lakers fans.

yeah, you fail again, plenty of Lakers fans gave up on them.



:lol Wait, which ones are the great teams?..why are you naming all those teams?..Nuggets? Blazers? OKC? Dallas? SA? Chicago? Orlando? :lol..

And we are supposed to think you have credibility when you don't say why they aren't great? Let's see, you said LeBron has finals experience and that counts. However, Dallas and Orlando have it as well, and they won games and have players left from those teams. Portland and OKC seem to be the teams of the future in the west. Let's see how they do.

By your logic, I can say that Bosh is not a great player without giving a reason and that makes it law. I already told you, your little award you love to boast about doesn't give you carte blanche here.



:lol Who said the 2010 Celtics were better than the 2008 Celtics?..seriously?..:rollin

How about Celtics fans? Check their boards out. Celticsblog for one. A lot of their fans gave up on that team back in January!

Man, you are way too easy, no challenge at all. Don't go to prison, ever. hang on to your soap in the shower if you do, and never smile at anyone bigger than you.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

I know, posting ridiculously stupid and long arguments is probably his gimmick, so ya, like I said, I'll take the L..

He's a pretty good troll TBH, he makes it sound like he actually believes what he write..

Smart move to take the L . thanks for your time. However, it's only your opinion what I say is unbelievable. I backed it up logically. Later.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

No, actually you have failed and now are trying to save face. In fact by adding links to people you "owned" is a fail in it self. Bet you won't add a link to this thread where Harlem bent you over for you obvious ignorance.

No, I succeeded because HH37 conceded. The link to this thread is already in my signature, and I'll gladly pick up the argument with HH37 if he wants, anytime. You're a troll, and you didn't even back up what HH37 said. No one did. That in itself tells who won.

Gee, I can go claim I beat LeBron in one on one basketball. If you guys can spread untruths as fact, so can I. Bring me something worthwhile to argue, or don't waste my time. I shoot down big prey and got my jollies already.

[Jacob1983]

Daddy of All Trolls, when did NBA teams get the ability to travel back in time? How did the 2006 Heat lose in the 2005 ECF with homecourt advantage? How is that possible?

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Daddy of All Trolls, when did NBA teams get the ability to travel back in time? How did the 2006 Heat lose in the 2005 ECF with homecourt advantage? How is that possible?

If you read a little more carefully you will have your answer. The 2005 Heat did not go back in time and lose the 2005 ECF with HCA.

My list gives the first year recent NBA champions won a title with that team as constructed with it's core pieces. It also shows how they fared before they won a title. Lakers and Celtics of the 80's had gaps in their runs and needed more players to keep winning.



Naturally, every team had to win it's first title, but most were able to win again.
the 1981 Celtics failed first year with Bird. Sixers and Lakers were better then them in 1982-83. Edit: they had to add Dennis Johnson in 1984, and Bill Walton in 1986.
the 1983 Sixers failed in 1977, 1980, and 1982
the 1980 Lakers (Kareem) needed Magic Johnson, and later James Worthy.
the 1991 Bulls was MJ's 7th season.
the 1989 Pistons lost in the finals in 1988 and the ECF in a heartbreaker in 1987.
the 1994 rockets needed MJ gone, and how many years with Hakeem?
The 1999 spurs failed in Duncan's first year. It took 4 more years to win again.
The 2000 Lakers needed Phil Jackson to get Shaq and Kobe going in their 4th year together
The 2004 Pistons failed just before in the ECF, 2003.
The 2006 Heat failed in 2005 in the ECF with HCA.
The 2008 Celtics were the first year one hit since maybe the 1977 Blazers. they dumped 2 superstars, Petrie and Wicks, got Mo Lucas and a few other key pieces to team with Walton and cleaned up the Lakers and Sixers.
The 2009 Lakers lost for 4 years without Shaq.

So, the 2006 Heat were champions, building on the loss of the 2005 Heat. Jordan lost with his Bulls, Bird lost with his Celtics, Kareem lost with his Lakers, etc, all before they won a title. 2 exceptions, 2008 Celtics and 1977 Blazers.

In summary, most teams that won multiple titles in the last 31 seasons won again with that unit. Exceptions are 1983 Sixers, 2004 Pistons, 2006 Heat, and 2008 Celtics.

One change I would make in the other list I posted is as follows, separating the Lakers 5 titles in 11 years, because those Lakers teams are completely different:


Bulls; 6 titles in 8 years, 1991-1998.
Lakers: 5 titles in 9 years, 1980-1988
Spurs: 4 titles in 9 years, 1999-2007
Lakers: 3 titles in 3 years, 2000-2002
Celtics: 3 titles in 6 years, 1981-1986.
Pistons: 2 titles in 2 years, 1989-1990.
Rockets: 2 titles in 2 years, 1994-1995.
Lakers: 2 titles in 2 years, 2009-2010.

What I said earlier makes sense. If the Miami Superfriends wins 3 titles it's a huge success. That's how many Larry Bird's Celtics won. More titles is better, 2 or fewer isn't so good with all the expectations placed on this team. If they win 7 titles, then they have topped MJ's Bulls.

[milkshakeballa]

Nice work daddy!

Dispatched those trolls quite quickly I would say.

Add another thread to dat dere sig!

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Note: player eras tend to outlast championship eras. The exception is Bill Russell's 11 in 13 back in the age of dinosaurs 8 teams and 2 playoff series.

Celtics 80's championship era was 7 years, Bird played 12
Lakers 80's championship era was 9 years, Magic played 11
Bulls championship era was 8 years, Jordan played 14
Spurs championship era is 9 years, Duncan has played 13.

And so on.

How long will this Heat era last? I would say as long as both LaBron and Wade play together. Minimum 4 years, maximum, probably 10. Guessing how many titles they will win is tough, but the comparison to other teams is easy to make by looking at what they already did.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Nice work daddy!

Dispatched those trolls quite quickly I would say.

Add another thread to dat dere sig!

Hey, thanks a million!

[lefty]

They'll definitely challenge it - their front-court woes will be exposed come playoff time though..
Sig of the year

[dbreiden83080]

They are gonna be good but Chris Bosh is not a prime Tim Duncan. He's a good all star Forward that has never won squat. He's like Chris Webber.. IF he doesn't meet expectations, they won't win the title..

[HarlemHeat37]

Chris Bosh is a #3 option..just think about that..

[Ace]

They are gonna be good but Chris Bosh is not a prime Tim Duncan. He's a good all star Forward that has never won squat. He's like Chris Webber.. IF he doesn't meet expectations, they won't win the title..

He doesn't need to be Duncan. He's the 3rd option behind Lebron and Wade.

[picc84]

Only way anyone's gonna beat them is if they have three things.

1. Frontcourt offense to punish the weak interior defenders of the Heat.

2. A great interior defense to pack the paint.

3. At least 2 perimeter players that can create their own shot and draw fouls, so as not to allow either Wade or James to rest on defense.

If you have 1 or 2 of those things, you won't beat Miami. If you have all 3, you have a chance.

[SomeCallMeTim]

Only way anyone's gonna beat them is if they have three things.

1. Frontcourt offense to punish the weak interior defenders of the Heat.

2. A great interior defense to pack the paint.

3. At least 2 perimeter players that can create their own shot and draw fouls, so as not to allow either Wade or James to rest on defense.

If you have 1 or 2 of those things, you won't beat Miami. If you have all 3, you have a chance.

Hope you're wrong. Lakers don't have #3. Kobe's great at creating his own shots and getting to the line, but there aren't any other perimeter players on LA who do this.

[SomeCallMeTim]

Only way anyone's gonna beat them is if they have three things.

1. Frontcourt offense to punish the weak interior defenders of the Heat.

2. A great interior defense to pack the paint.

3. At least 2 perimeter players that can create their own shot and draw fouls, so as not to allow either Wade or James to rest on defense.

If you have 1 or 2 of those things, you won't beat Miami. If you have all 3, you have a chance.

By the by, the teams that would seem to fit your criteria are Boston, San Antonio, maybe Chicago (depends on how sold you are on their interior D), and Orlando (depends on whether you think Carter can still create his own shot and draw fouls -- yeah, not a sure bet).

[Basketball Jones]

Breaking the record and then losing in the finals. :lol

[picc84]

Teams with all 3 are LA and Boston, possibly Orlando.

However Orlando's problems go deeper because they have the weakest perimeter defenders of all 3 teams. Vince Carter got absolutely destroyed by Paul Pierce in the ECF. What will Wade or James do to him? Reddick is good for chasing Ray Allen around screens but in an isolation against Dwyane Wade he is going to be anally raped.

LA and Boston are the only teams I see with a legit chance to beat Miami. Orlando has an outside shot, but barely.

Chicago doesn't have enough two-way perimeter players nor do they have the interior defense needed. Both Korver and Brewer will be huge liabilities against a team like Miami, which is why I criticized Chicago for putting their eggs in those two's basket. If they hadn't traded Kirk "Wade-Stopper" Hinrich away, they'd be in better shape, but they did, so they're screwed.

San Antonio is not even in the conversation, they have neither the offense nor the defense to beat Miami.

Boston and LA both have frontcourt players who can take advantage of the soft interior of Miami, both have great halfcourt defenses. Allen and Pierce can make the cHeat duo work on defense. Kobe and Artest can as well. Allen/Pierce and Kobe/Artest are all good perimeter defenders as well, the main advantage they have over Orlando.

Agree or disagree with overall assessment.

[Jacob1983]

Webber>Bosh

[21_Blessings]

Breaking the record and then losing in the finals to the Lakers. :lol

:lol Best case scenario

[HarlemHeat37]

Teams with all 3 are LA and Boston, possibly Orlando.

However Orlando's problems go deeper because they have the weakest perimeter defenders of all 3 teams. Vince Carter got absolutely destroyed by Paul Pierce in the ECF. What will Wade or James do to him? Reddick is good for chasing Ray Allen around screens but in an isolation against Dwyane Wade he is going to be anally raped.

LA and Boston are the only teams I see with a legit chance to beat Miami. Orlando has an outside shot, but barely.

Chicago doesn't have enough two-way perimeter players nor do they have the interior defense needed. Both Korver and Brewer will be huge liabilities against a team like Miami, which is why I criticized Chicago for putting their eggs in those two's basket. If they hadn't traded Kirk "Wade-Stopper" Hinrich away, they'd be in better shape, but they did, so they're screwed.

San Antonio is not even in the conversation, they have neither the offense nor the defense to beat Miami.

Boston and LA both have frontcourt players who can take advantage of the soft interior of Miami, both have great halfcourt defenses. Allen and Pierce can make the cHeat duo work on defense. Kobe and Artest can as well. Allen/Pierce and Kobe/Artest are all good perimeter defenders as well, the main advantage they have over Orlando.

Agree or disagree with overall assessment.

Artest would have to make massive strides during the off-season to be a good offensive player, TBH..

[Ashy Larry]

they can have 77 win. As long as they don't get those 16 playoff wins is all I care about .....

[Venti Quattro]

Didn't you guys think for one second that JVG was sarcastic with his comments?

[21_Blessings]

Didn't you guys think for one second that JVG was sarcastic with his comments?

I thought it was obvious he was hyping them up to fail.

You know he'd love see his brother beat the hell out of em in the playoffs so he could point out what a failure they were and how great a coach Stan is.

[DPG21920]

Teams with all 3 are LA and Boston, possibly Orlando.

However Orlando's problems go deeper because they have the weakest perimeter defenders of all 3 teams. Vince Carter got absolutely destroyed by Paul Pierce in the ECF. What will Wade or James do to him? Reddick is good for chasing Ray Allen around screens but in an isolation against Dwyane Wade he is going to be anally raped.

LA and Boston are the only teams I see with a legit chance to beat Miami. Orlando has an outside shot, but barely.

Chicago doesn't have enough two-way perimeter players nor do they have the interior defense needed. Both Korver and Brewer will be huge liabilities against a team like Miami, which is why I criticized Chicago for putting their eggs in those two's basket. If they hadn't traded Kirk "Wade-Stopper" Hinrich away, they'd be in better shape, but they did, so they're screwed.

San Antonio is not even in the conversation, they have neither the offense nor the defense to beat Miami.

Boston and LA both have frontcourt players who can take advantage of the soft interior of Miami, both have great halfcourt defenses. Allen and Pierce can make the cHeat duo work on defense. Kobe and Artest can as well. Allen/Pierce and Kobe/Artest are all good perimeter defenders as well, the main advantage they have over Orlando.

Agree or disagree with overall assessment.

I disagree with Orlando based on your criteria and with LA using Artest as an example.

But LA has enough to beat Miami (for sure as things stand today), but not for the reasons you listed specifically. It's because of their length inside and their defense. The offense you don't have to worry about, but having Bynum/Kobe/Artest/Pau plus other wing defenders Barnes will help out a lot. They also have a perfectly balanced team (I think the 3 point shooting will improve).

[picc84]

I disagree with Orlando based on your criteria and with LA using Artest as an example.

But LA has enough to beat Miami (for sure as things stand today), but not for the reasons you listed specifically. It's because of their length inside and their defense. The offense you don't have to worry about, but having Bynum/Kobe/Artest/Pau plus other wing defenders Barnes will help out a lot. They also have a perfectly balanced team (I think the 3 point shooting will improve).

You disagree with Orlando based on my criteria how? Not arguing, just curious. I didn't say they had a good chance to beat Miami, or even a decent one. Its slim. But other than Boston they are the only east team with even a slight chance. And thats still more me hoping more than anything.

I included Artest for a few reasons. One, its his second year in the triangle. Players in our system always take at least a year before they are fully comfortable and play up to their offensive potential. He is still a good offensive player, and it was mostly the nature of the system and his unfamiliarity with it that kept the team from letting him do more. Half the time he had no clue where to go or what to do.

Two, he's probably not good enough to score on Lebron consistently, but he's good enough to make him work a little and draw fouls. Phil is going to put him in the post against Bron specifically to do that. He's not going to make the shot, but he'll draw some cheap fouls and make Lebron exert some energy on D. And thats really all thats needed.

[DPG21920]

You disagree with Orlando based on my criteria how? Not arguing, just curious. I didn't say they had a good chance to beat Miami, or even a decent one. Its slim. But other than Boston they are the only east team with even a slight chance. And thats still more me hoping more than anything.

Because one of your criteria was having 2 legit offensive perimeter options and I don't feel ORL has that. Jameer and VC are decent, but not good enough to where they meet the criteria you laid out enough to have a legit shot at Miami (solely based on your criteria).


I included Artest for a few reasons. One, its his second year in the triangle. Players in our system always take at least a year before they are fully comfortable and play up to their offensive potential. He is still a good offensive player, and it was mostly the nature of the system and his unfamiliarity with it that kept the team from letting him do more. Half the time he had no clue where to go or what to do.

I don't think he is still a good offensive player. His handle is shaky, his shot has never been great and he is a volume offensive player. He can't be that on LA. He can be serviceable (obviously since they won a title with him), but again, I think he falls short based on your criteria. He might become more familiar, but his role won't change. He is not a very good offensive fit (except for his interior passing imo). But that is not a big deal.


Two, he's probably not good enough to score on Lebron consistently, but he's good enough to make him work a little and draw fouls. Phil is going to put him in the post against Bron specifically to do that. He's not going to make the shot, but he'll draw some cheap fouls and make Lebron exert some energy on D. And thats really all thats needed.

He won't score on Lebron at all, especially if they decide to post him up. Ron is terrible and clumsy in the post. He is decent at drawing fouls, but he won't out muscle Lebron. Putting Artest in the post is what most every team wants.

[DPG21920]

I think LA, as things stand today, is better than MIA. But I want to see how things play out with MIA.

[milkshakeballa]

Artest would have to make massive strides during the off-season to be a good offensive player, TBH..

Artest was shooting right around 45% from 3 pt land before he f'd up his hand IIRC. He doesn't need to be a good offensive player. All he has to do is hit the open 3 ball.

When his hand was healthy...he was.

Time will tell.

[milkshakeballa]

Because one of your criteria was having 2 legit offensive perimeter options and I don't feel ORL has that. Jameer and VC are decent, but not good enough to where they meet the criteria you laid out enough to have a legit shot at Miami (solely based on your criteria).



I don't think he is still a good offensive player. His handle is shaky, his shot has never been great and he is a volume offensive player. He can't be that on LA. He can be serviceable (obviously since they won a title with him), but again, I think he falls short based on your criteria. He might become more familiar, but his role won't change. He is not a very good offensive fit (except for his interior passing imo). But that is not a big deal.



He won't score on Lebron at all, especially if they decide to post him up. Ron is terrible and clumsy in the post. He is decent at drawing fouls, but he won't out muscle Lebron. Putting Artest in the post is what most every team wants.

Good post DPG. As I said previously though, all LA needs from Ron is to hit the open 3 ball. He was in the mid 40%'s when his hand was healthy.

And Ron WILL make Bron work on defense. The guy is a tank. Just playing against Ron for 35 minutes a night will take its toll on ANYBODY.

As a Laker fan I hope we can get minimum offensive contributions from Ron and still beat the Heat. I think its possible...

[SomeCallMeTim]

Artest was shooting right around 45% from 3 pt land before he f'd up his hand IIRC. He doesn't need to be a good offensive player. All he has to do is hit the open 3 ball.

When his hand was healthy...he was.

Time will tell.

I think he peaked at about 40%. You are right, he got hurt and his 3pt% took a nosedive. I kept waiting for it to return when he got healthy.

It never did.

Still somewhat amazing they were able to win a title with him playing so poorly on the offensive end. Fisher reintegrating into something of a useful scorer in the POs had a lot to do with that.

I hope Artest will find the range again this year. If it was truly an injury issue, then he likely will. His 3pt accuracy was steady for several years before 2010. My worry is it is more an age/head issue.

[SomeCallMeTim]

Good post DPG. As I said previously though, all LA needs from Ron is to hit the open 3 ball. He was in the mid 40%'s when his hand was healthy.

And Ron WILL make Bron work on defense. The guy is a tank. Just playing against Ron for 35 minutes a night will take its toll on ANYBODY.

As a Laker fan I hope we can get minimum offensive contributions from Ron and still beat the Heat. I think its possible...

Lakers now have options at 3 where before it was either throw Luke or (shiver) Odom out there... or shift Kobe to the 3 and have Brown or Sasha fill the 2.

I don't have to tell you that would be an unmitigated disaster vs. a team like Miami.

With Barnes, they have not only a legit backup for Artest but an option if his offense is dragging the team down and they need someone who could better space the floor.

[milkshakeballa]

I think he peaked at about 40%. You are right, he got hurt and his 3pt% took a nosedive. I kept waiting for it to return when he got healthy.

It never did.

Still somewhat amazing they were able to win a title with him playing so poorly on the offensive end. Fisher reintegrating into something of a useful scorer in the POs had a lot to do with that.

I hope Artest will find the range again this year. If it was truly an injury issue, then he likely will. His 3pt accuracy was steady for several years before 2010. My worry is it is more an age/head issue.

Agreed. As a team I think there is no question the team cannot count on Ron to produce much on O. I think they will get steady contributions form Barnes in his minutes from the 3.


I am really interested to see who closes out games this year in crunch time. Fish or Blake?

If Fish declines the same amount this year as he did from 08 to 09...he is going to be historically bad. I think the Lakers with Blake though can REALLY limit his minutes and keep him fresh for the playoffs then Phil can go game by game matchup by matchup..

[milkshakeballa]

Lakers now have options at 3 where before it was either throw Luke or (shiver) Odom out there... or shift Kobe to the 3 and have Brown or Sasha fill the 2.

I don't have to tell you that would be an unmitigated disaster vs. a team like Miami.

With Barnes, they have not only a legit backup for Artest but an option if his offense is dragging the team down and they need someone who could better space the floor.

LOL see my post right after you. Agreed. Barnes is the most underrated pickup so far this offseason in my eyes.

Mitch gets an A from me for this offseason.

[picc84]

Because one of your criteria was having 2 legit offensive perimeter options and I don't feel ORL has that. Jameer and VC are decent, but not good enough to where they meet the criteria you laid out enough to have a legit shot at Miami (solely based on your criteria).

I agree. Which is why I stipulated 'possibly'. I don't think Jameer is relevant here, despite being Orlando's best perimeter option, because neither Wade nor Lebron would be guarding him. One of them would be on Vince, the other on....Reddick, or Pietrus I guess. Neither of those two is going to make either Wade or James work. They'll be in a corner waiting for a kickout, and Wade/James will be just waiting around for Dwight to make his move.



I don't think he is still a good offensive player. His handle is shaky, his shot has never been great and he is a volume offensive player. He can't be that on LA. He can be serviceable (obviously since they won a title with him), but again, I think he falls short based on your criteria. He might become more familiar, but his role won't change. He is not a very good offensive fit (except for his interior passing imo). But that is not a big deal.

All I meant was that a team has to have two perimeter guys who can do more than spot up and shoot, allowing one of Miami's guys to either stand around or just roam. Ronnie isn't a great offensive player by any means, but the mere fact that Lebron will have to actually play some defense from time to time is an advantage over other teams who don't have that.


He won't score on Lebron at all, especially if they decide to post him up. Ron is terrible and clumsy in the post. He is decent at drawing fouls, but he won't out muscle Lebron. Putting Artest in the post is what most every team wants.

He won't outmuscle Bron, and won't score on him at a decent clip, but if the chosen one spends 4 more minutes a game on the bench because he drew a couple cheap fouls while Artest was posting up, thats a leg up on other teams.

[Killakobe81]

Artest did struggle some but everytime we needed him to come through he did ...

[MiamiHeat]

Boston losing their starting Center in the 1st quarter of Game 6 up 3-2 had a bigger role to play in LA winning than anything Ron did.

[Dunc n Dave]

Boston losing their starting Center in the 1st quarter of Game 6 up 3-2 had a bigger role to play in LA winning than anything Ron did.

Definitely had a HUGE effect on the outcome. Just look at the ridiculous # of boards the Lakers got in Game 7. That's what happens when you have to rely on a lazy Rasheed to grab rebounds for you. He was playing inspired on the offensive end, but not on the boards.

[dbreiden83080]

He doesn't need to be Duncan. He's the 3rd option behind Lebron and Wade.

No shit but to say they are gonna win 70 games and the title Bosh better be great next year.. People seem to be overating him..

[milkshakeballa]

Definitely had a HUGE effect on the outcome. Just look at the ridiculous # of boards the Lakers got in Game 7. That's what happens when you have to rely on a lazy Rasheed to grab rebounds for you. He was playing inspired on the offensive end, but not on the boards.

IIRC Boston played better ALL SERIES with Perkins on the bench.

I was hoping Perkins WOULD NOT pick up his 7th tech.

Sheed spread the floor for them.

[himat]

Perkins injury excuse is one of the lamest injury excuses because Lakers played with an injured Andrew Bynum for all 7 games of the series and because Rasheed played a hell of a Game 7. At times he was the only calm player on the floor offensively with his multiple low post bank shots. And he also gave LA a big scare by hitting a 3 with 1 minute to go to make it a 1 possession game.

[Killakobe81]

Perkins injury excuse is one of the lamest injury excuses because Lakers played with an injured Andrew Bynum for all 7 games of the series and because Rasheed played a hell of a Game 7. At times he was the only calm player on the floor offensively with his multiple low post bank shots. And he also gave LA a big scare by hitting a 3 with 1 minute to go to make it a 1 possession game.

There you go bringing facts and reasoning to an NBA forum! LOL

Rasheed spread the floor, allowing driving lanes for Rondo
Rasheed hit deep jumpers over Bynum t
Took Odom on the block ...

With artest locking up Pierce, Rondo/Alllen unable to shoot and Ray hot and cold ...

Celts best offense was KG's baseline turn-around and Rasheed

He did suck on the boards though ...

[picc84]

I wanted Perkins on the floor so Sheed would be off it.

Any Celtic fan crying about Perk with Sheed's performance and Bynum deserves to be shot.

[poop]

the 33 straight will never be beaten

[Ari Gold]

lulz.

[jeebus]

lulz.

[Killakobe81]

the 33 straight will never be beaten

To win 72, they will NEED a 33 straight run ... LOL

[HarlemHeat37]

:lol "Easily" was obviously shtick hyperbole, but it looks like I might not be posting here after June(although right now, it doesn't count, since Mike Miller is out)..

[Kobe™]

So if Juwan Howard gets injured the deal is nullified?^?

[HarlemHeat37]

No..Mike Miller is the only player that applies to the deal..maybe Haslem, but I probably won't count him, since he's playing poorly..

[Killakobe81]

:lol "Easily" was obviously shtick hyperbole, but it looks like I might not be posting here after June(although right now, it doesn't count, since Mike Miller is out)..

First no one realy wants you to leave ...but I may have to call you straight bitch like Omar did Marlo if you don't ... LOL

As for Mike Miller if he is the knight on the white horse for the heat they never were title contenders to begin with. Besides James jones has shot (so far) better than Miller did last year or pretty much any year of Miller's career so that is a cop out.

[HarlemHeat37]

Mike Miller is their starting SF(Lebron will be playing PG) and best role player/shooter..imagine what he will shoot with the open looks that James Jones is getting..

BTW, I'm not saying Mike Miller is going to fix Miami's problems, I'm just saying that he's a significant injury..

[Leonard Curse]

damn harlem you were right! all that trash talkin you did @spurstalk (t@spurstalk) in the preseason really got backed up by all the "undeniable talent" on your squad!! miami looks like theyre headed for 72 !!! and i guess youre right "HUNGER" had nothing to do with it

[jag]

A New York Spurs fan who is infatuated with Lebron. What a horrible way to live.

[LkrFan]

At this rate, they will get to 72 total wins this time next year, tbh.

[HarlemHeat37]

Hunger and championship experience has absolutely nothing to do with Miami's struggles, these are regular season games(although I have nothing against DOAT anymore):lol..neither does chemistry between Wade and Lebron..neither does rebounding(top 10)..neither does overall defense(#1 coming into this game)..neither does bench play(#12 in the NBA so far)..

Their main flaw is interior D and coaching, which was predicted by most, including myself, but they're underachieving everywhere else(particularly Bosh)..most of the predictions here of Miami's struggles came from poor analysis, but ended up getting the correct result..

I also never said they would win 72 or even close to it..I do look stupid for talking shit, but I always talk shit, this is my forum:lol..


A New York Spurs fan who is infatuated with Lebron. What a horrible way to live.

What are you trying to say?..

[jag]

What are you trying to say?..

That it's a terrible way to go through life.

[HarlemHeat37]

That it's a terrible way to go through life.

Why?..

[jag]

Why?..

Cleveland loved Lebron...look where it got them.

[HarlemHeat37]

Cleveland loved Lebron...look where it got them.

The heart wants what the heart wants..

[jag]

Birdman's heart wanted a neck tattoo...

but that doesn't mean it was a good idea.

http://www.sportsgrid.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/6-e1286734187381.jpg

[HarlemHeat37]

How do you know it wasn't his brain?..Birdman doesn't seem like the type to think things through..

[KapitanTutan]

Birdman's heart wanted a neck tattoo...

but that doesn't mean it was a good idea.

http://www.sportsgrid.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/10/6-e1286734187381.jpg

:lol