Would the Progressive Left find Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, John Jay, Benjamin F

[Galileo]

Would the Progressive Left find Thomas Jefferson, James Madison, John Jay, Benjamin Franklin, John Adams, and other Founding Fathers who wrote the Declaration of Independence and the U.S. Constitution to be "radical extremists" if they were alive today?

Of course the Progressive Left would find our Founding Fathers to be "radical extremists" if they were alive today. King George III saw them in the same light. The ideas of individual liberties, federalism, separation of powers, and limited enumerated powers of the federal government were radical and extremist views 234 years ago in 1776 just as they are radical and extremist today to the Statists on the Left.

http://www.sodahead.com/united-states/would-the-progressive-left-find-thomas-jefferson-james-madison-john-jay-benjamin-franklin-john-a/question-1142307/

:lmao

[Parker2112]

the current american empire and policy toward global conquest would certainly pass for the british version at its peak

[Parker2112]

any CIA on this board? just curious

[z0sa]

Manny would consider them terrorists.

[CosmicCowboy]

Manny would consider them terrorists.

:lmao

[xrayzebra]

the current american empire and policy toward global conquest would certainly pass for the british version at its peak

Obviously you have no concept of history or capitalization of nouns.

[Parker2112]

Obviously you have no concept of history or capitalization of nouns.

if the std is the sun never setting, then i would say we are safe.

are you cia?

[xrayzebra]

Damn, we have another clam on board........do they ever give up......

hey clam, someone is trying for your slot.

[clambake]

Damn, we have another clam on board........do they ever give up......

hey clam, someone is trying for your slot.

you dusted off your primitive brain just to take a shot at me?

[xrayzebra]

Hey Clam, why not, you are family after all. We been sniping at each other for years.
These new upstarts gotta learn.

[clambake]

how will they learn without your regulatin?

[xrayzebra]

how will they learn without your regulatin?

I thought all you liberal's liked regulation. Just trying to protect your turf.
Just never mind. What I get for trying to be a nice guy.....:lol

[clambake]

I thought all you liberal's liked regulation. Just trying to protect your turf.
Just never mind. What I get for trying to be a nice guy.....:lol

we're not really liberals, ray.

we're anti-phony republicans. you should be too.

[xrayzebra]

Clam, I am not Republican, I am an old Conservative, to the bone.

Which makes me dislike the Dimm-o-craps and their collation of caucuses and groups
which all have an agenda. Like Obama, et al.

I just support the Republicans cause they are closer to my way of thinking. Anything
wrong with that.

[clambake]

Clam, I am not Republican, I am an old Conservative, to the bone.

I just support the Republicans cause they are closer to my way of thinking.

sorry ray, but they're not.

[xrayzebra]

sorry ray, but they're not.

Is that Ron Paul I hear in the backgroun?

[CubanMustGo]

Lumping Adams and Jefferson together is too funny. Adams, a Federalist, believed in a strong centralized Federal government. He also did not believe in party politics to the point that he asked Jefferson, whom he narrowly defeated in the presidential election of 1796, to fully participate as a member of his cabinet. Jefferson, a Republican, not only refused but as vice president constantly stabbed his own president in the back repeatedly, going so far as to hire James Callendar to anonymously slander Adams in public throughout Adams' term. Jefferson was an avid supporter of states rights, in stark contrast to Adams. He also was massively in debt throughout his life, like most Virginia gentlemen of the era (Washington was a notable rare exception), to the point that his many slaves had to be sold upon his death in an attempt to pay his obligations. Adams had no slaves and lived a conspicuously modest lifestyle in comparison.

[spursncowboys]

Sam Adams? From everything I have read about J Adams, he sounds like our first career politician.

[Galileo]

Lumping Adams and Jefferson together is too funny. Adams, a Federalist, believed in a strong centralized Federal government. He also did not believe in party politics to the point that he asked Jefferson, whom he narrowly defeated in the presidential election of 1796, to fully participate as a member of his cabinet. Jefferson, a Republican, not only refused but as vice president constantly stabbed his own president in the back repeatedly, going so far as to hire James Callendar to anonymously slander Adams in public throughout Adams' term. Jefferson was an avid supporter of states rights, in stark contrast to Adams. He also was massively in debt throughout his life, like most Virginia gentlemen of the era (Washington was a notable rare exception), to the point that his many slaves had to be sold upon his death in an attempt to pay his obligations. Adams had no slaves and lived a conspicuously modest lifestyle in comparison.

John Adams did not believe in a "strong central government". He wanted a government slightly stronger than what Jefferson wanted. Adams didn't want socialism, the war on drugs, world empire, income taxes, etc.

Please get off the crack pipe.

[CosmicCowboy]

John Adams did not believe in a "strong central government". He wanted a government slightly stronger than what Jefferson wanted. Adams didn't want socialism, the war on drugs, world empire, income taxes, etc.

Please get off the crack pipe.

No shit. The only thing he got right was that Jefferson died poor. Back then he couldn't sell 10 million dollars worth of "memoirs" of the rise to his one term Senate career to political cronies like Obama could. Thats just an example. Republicans are just as bad now. Getting elected to the House/Senate (Not to mention the Presidency) is a guarantee of millions one way or another. Look at the Clintons. They are serious multi-millionaires and Bill never worked a day in his life as a civilian.

[Galileo]

No shit. The only thing he got right was that Jefferson died poor. Back then he couldn't sell 10 million dollars worth of "memoirs" of the rise to his one term Senate career to political cronies like Obama could. Thats just an example. Republicans are just as bad now. Getting elected to the House/Senate (Not to mention the Presidency) is a guarantee of millions one way or another. Look at the Clintons. They are serious multi-millionaires and Bill never worked a day in his life as a civilian.

Its interesting that James Madison provided for his wife and slaves support by leaving his papers. Madison died in 1836, and his papers sold for around $100,000.

[BadOdor]

Jefferson was a slave owner. He believed in slavery. He did not free his slaves.

[elbamba]

Lumping Adams and Jefferson together is too funny. Adams, a Federalist, believed in a strong centralized Federal government. He also did not believe in party politics to the point that he asked Jefferson, whom he narrowly defeated in the presidential election of 1796, to fully participate as a member of his cabinet. Jefferson, a Republican, not only refused but as vice president constantly stabbed his own president in the back repeatedly, going so far as to hire James Callendar to anonymously slander Adams in public throughout Adams' term. Jefferson was an avid supporter of states rights, in stark contrast to Adams. He also was massively in debt throughout his life, like most Virginia gentlemen of the era (Washington was a notable rare exception), to the point that his many slaves had to be sold upon his death in an attempt to pay his obligations. Adams had no slaves and lived a conspicuously modest lifestyle in comparison.

John Adams 1776 was very different from John Adams 1796. Twenty years in France, Holland and England will change the way most people view their personal politics. Especially because each country was so different in their political systems.

However, mixing reframers of the constitution and the signers of the Declaration of Independence doesn't sit well with me either. Two completely different groups of people and thinkers.

[boutons_deux]

Is this thread another attempt for the right-wingers to claim the FFs exclusively for their side, denying them to the sub-human non-right-wingers?

If so, GFY.

The FFs said a lot of stuff that showed they feared the power of corps and capitalists to corrupt their new nation. It has come to pass, AGAIN and AGAIN.

TJ was for separation of church and state. That the TX "Christian" supremacist theocrats of SBOE erased TJ from TX textbooks

[Galileo]

Jefferson was a slave owner. He believed in slavery. He did not free his slaves.

Slavery was legal at that time. If you could own slaves, you'd do it, too. Jefferson tried to end slavery, but the common masses of the people would not let him.

[clambake]

you free your slaves if you try to end slavery.

[BadOdor]

you free your slaves if you try to end slavery.

Yup.

[Galileo]

you free your slaves if you try to end slavery.

I wasn't illegal back then. Jefferson obeyed the law, although when he freed some of his slaves he was breaking it.