ESPN - Western Conference Predictions

[Ashy Larry]

1 Los Angeles Lakers 58 24 .707

The heavyweight champs have given us a True Hollywood Story of classic characters: the loner hero, the European intellectual, the wise old cap'n, the Queensbridge kid, the loopy lefty, the young star on the make, the eccentric owner and his family, and the Zen Master. Oh yeah, they're pretty good at basketball, too.




2 Oklahoma City Thunder 52 30 .634

Is this the same team that stood 1-16 just 20 months ago? Yes, and it's the same team that put a serious scare in the champs in Round 1. In what could be a wild Western scramble for second, our panel gives the Thunder 0.21 wins more than the Mavs, meaning a potential West finals bid for the Durant-Westbrook-Green team.




3 Dallas Mavericks 52 30 .634

We foresee an amazing 11th-straight 50-win season for the Mavericks, again on the shoulders of Dirk, J-Kidd and crew. And with the arrival of Tyson Chandler and the emergence of Roddy Beaubois (once he returns from a broken foot), Dallas will have some fresh blood. The Mavs may not have a ring, but they do have our respect.




4 Denver Nuggets 49 33 .598

The Nuggets hope coach George Karl can return after another bout with cancer, and Karl hopes the Nuggets can return to top contender status in the West. To do so, Carmelo & Co. need to curb their worst tendencies (namely: selfish play, emotional outbursts) and get back to the kind of teamwork preached by Karl.




5 Portland Trail Blazers 49 33 .598

Portland appears to be a postseason perennial despite front-office turmoil and myriad injuries. And now, with the West in transition (below the Lakers), this season looks like an open invitation for Brandon Roy, LaMarcus Aldridge and Greg Oden to take the Blazers past the first round of the playoffs for the first time in 11 years.



6 San Antonio Spurs 48 34 .585

Tim Duncan was in college the last time the Spurs finished under .600, but that's what our panel forecasts for this fading power. What could reverse the subtle slide from 63 to 58 to 56 to 54 to 50 wins? A healthy season from Manu Ginobili and Tony Parker, plus a splash by Tiago Splitter, the Brazilian banger imported from Europe.




7 Utah Jazz 47 35 .573

Utah took some steps back with the departures of Carlos Boozer, Wes Matthews and Kyle Korver, and a step forward with the acquisition of Al Jefferson. How Jerry Sloan fits it all together -- and how the Jazz use the expiring contract of Andrei Kirilenko -- will tell us whether Deron Williams' crew is more contender or pretender.





8 Houston Rockets 45 37 .549

How is Yao? That's the first question for Houston, which has built a strong supporting cast without knowing whether its 7-foot-6 superstar can return from foot surgery to carry the team. But if the big fella can go, the Rockets have the pieces in place, with the experienced Rick Adelman and savvy Daryl Morey for guidance.





9 Phoenix Suns 44 38 .537

Phoenix rose spectacularly from the lottery to the West finals, and now it's back to the lottery for Steve Nash and the Suns, according to our panel. That's despite a 44-win forecast and despite our prediction that Suns expatriate Amare Stoudemire and his Knicks (with just 37 wins) will make the playoffs in the East. No, life ain't fair.





10 New Orleans Hornets 38 44 .463

Chris Paul might renew his trade wishes after seeing our stinging Summer Forecast for the Hornets, which has them stuck at 38 wins, far from the playoffs. Of course, what CP3 and New Orleans need is a healthy CP3, after a knee injury cost him almost half of last season. In any case, his future is a looming issue.





11 Memphis Grizzlies 37 45 .451

On Feb. 2, Memphis was 26-21, tied with OKC for eighth. But it was ultimately another lottery season for the Grizzlies, while the Thunder are the new darlings of the West. We remain lukewarm on the young Grizz, though another season of near-perfect health could clear the way for them to surprise us once again.





12 Los Angeles Clippers 35 47 .427

Our panel is taking the déjà vu of L.A.'s other team: Last season we expected rookie Blake Griffin to carry the Clips to about a .400 winning percentage, and this season we expect rookie Blake Griffin to carry the Clips to about a .400 winning percentage. Let's hope his repaired knee and new coach Vinny Del Negro are up to the task.





13 Sacramento Kings 30 52 .366

Reigning rookie of the year Tyreke Evans has gained a reputation as a hell-bent driver who's hard to slow down, and not just on the highway. This season, expect another sizable move for the Kings after last season's eight-game improvement, especially if Evans can form a reliable partnership with rookie DeMarcus Cousins.






14 Golden State Warriors 29 53 .354

Warriors fans got their wish when Chris Cohan agreed to sell the team after 15 long years. Now comes the hard part for Golden State: Taking the raw materials on hand and making the team competitive in a tough conference. With Don Nelson's future and the roster in flux, our panel sees incremental steps, not a giant leap forward.




15 Minn. Timberwolves 20 62 .244

The good news: Our committee of 93 says the Wolves will win 33 percent more games. The bad news: We think the Wolves will be the NBA's worst team. Even worse: Despite a roster with intriguing young talent, Wolves GM David Kahn has us utterly confused regarding how he plans to take Minnesota north in the standings.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?page=SummerForecast10-WestStandings

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Would like to think the Mavs are 2 , but OKC is tough. Lakers are top dogs of course no suprises w/ that one, but Damn the Suns are sure gonna fall off

[Ashy Larry]

according to these "experts" ......... the playoffs would look like

1. Lakers
8. Rockets

4. Nuggets
5. Blazers

3. Mavericks
6. Spurs

2. Thunder
7. Jazz




LOL @ that 3/6 match up ....... it would only be right if that happened again

The Western Conference Playoffs present no bad match ups ...... maybe 1/8 but if Yao is healthy, that's still good

[djohn2oo8]

according to these "experts" ......... the playoffs would look like

1. Lakers
8. Rockets

4. Nuggets
5. Blazers

3. Mavericks
6. Spurs

2. Thunder
7. Jazz




LOL @ that 3/6 match up ....... it would only be right if that happened again

The Western Conference Playoffs present no bad match ups ...... maybe 1/8 but if Yao is healthy, that's still good

Yeah, I'd rather face the highest seeded team first, cuz if u gonna beat the best, you have to start somewhere.

[21_Blessings]

If CP3 is healthy there is no way the Hornets are a 38 win team.

[LongtimeSpursFan]

The OKC Thunder are vastly overrated. Methinks they are are a 5 or possibly 4 seed. Still too young and lack height. Sure they gave the Lakers a good run last year in the playoffs but most experts seem to place too much emphasis on that one series.

[DeadlyDynasty]

The OKC Thunder are vastly overrated. Methinks they are are a 5 or possibly 4 seed. Still too young and lack height. Sure they gave the Lakers a good run last year in the playoffs but most experts seem to place too much emphasis on that one series.

agreed...I also think the Jazz (if Jefferson is healthy) could challenge for the #2 spot this year. They finally figured out how to win on the road last year and I think they're pretty solid all-around if they can stay healthy

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Agreed. they must get bigger inside.

[redzero]

The Mavericks and the Spurs will go at it again. If not in the first round, then in the second.

[Basketballgirl25]

I don't think Mavs will do as good as this says I'd place them more 6-8

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

I don't think Mavs will do as good as this says I'd place them more 6-8

Anything is possible in the NBA, but I have a feeling this team will be good. I read somewhere where the Mavs will have something like 21 million dollars in expiring contracts come the trade dealine, so I suspect that if u see these Mavs struggling in February to stay in the top 3 out West then Mark might use those assets like he did last year and pull off a blockbuster deadline deal.

[TimmehC]

lol thunder better than anyone but the lakers

lol portland getting worse

lol espn

lol probably right about the spurs :bang

[BRHornet45]

1. Lakers (60 wins)
8. Spurs (48 wins)

4. Thunder (53 wins)
5. Blazers (52 wins)

3. Hornets (55 wins)
6. Jazz (51 wins)

2. Nuggets (56 wins)
7. Rockets (49 wins)

[LoneStarState'sPride]

mavs get a shout out to their streak of 50-win seasons but SA doesn't, in spite of the Spurs' streak being longer? Fucking pundits.

[Ashy Larry]

1. Lakers (60 wins)
8. Spurs (48 wins)

4. Thunder (53 wins)
5. Blazers (52 wins)

3. Hornets (55 wins)
6. Jazz (51 wins)

2. Nuggets (56-58 wins)
7. Rockets (49 wins)


lol @ no Mavs and the Hornets winning 55 games...... Paul is good but not that damn good

[BRHornet45]

lol @ no Mavs and the Hornets winning 55 games...... Paul is good but not that damn good

son we would have easily won well over 50 games last season if not for injuries. 55 wins is easily attainable especially with the addition of Ariza. Our starting lineup is very solid.

PG - Paul (superstar, best PG in the world, at least 20+ and 10+)
SG - Thornton (sky is the limit in his sophomore season)
SF - Ariza (at least 15ppg)
PF - West (19-22ppg)
C - Okafor (11-15ppg)

[TheKingOfMIA6]

pretty much except id switch Hornets with Rockets

[djohn2oo8]

son we would have easily won well over 50 games last season if not for injuries. 55 wins is easily attainable especially with the addition of Ariza. Our starting lineup is very solid.

PG - Paul (superstar, best PG in the world, at least 20+ and 10+)
SG - Thornton (sky is the limit in his sophomore season)
SF - Ariza (at least 15ppg)
PF - West (19-22ppg)
C - Okafor (11-15ppg)

Dream big son! Dream big!

[The Franchise]

pretty much except id switch Hornets with Rockets

Who was your favorite team 2 months ago?

[ogait]

So they expect the Blazers to stay healthy but have fewer wins than last season?
Also with Chris Paul the Hornets should win at least 45 games. And the Thunder still being overrated imo.

Gonna go with:

1. Lakers
2. Blazers
3. Mavs
4. Spurs
5. Nuggets
6. Rockets
7. Thunder
8. Hornets

[djohn2oo8]

Who was your favorite team 2 months ago?

He didn't even watch basketball two months ago

[Ashy Larry]

son we would have easily won well over 50 games last season if not for injuries. 55 wins is easily attainable especially with the addition of Ariza. Our starting lineup is very solid.

PG - Paul (superstar, best PG in the world, at least 20+ and 10+)
SG - Thornton (sky is the limit in his sophomore season)
SF - Ariza (at least 15ppg)
PF - West (19-22ppg)
C - Okafor (11-15ppg)


so with those five, you I take it they are all playing 48 minutes per game right ????

Oh wait..... Posey, yup, a nine seed

[DPG21920]

Hornets should be solid. Especially if Okafor pulls his head out.

[Killakobe81]

Me thinks:
1. Lakers 62 (they will try and match Heat for a while and then realize Heat will get 66)
2. Mavs 56
3. Nuggets 53
4. Spurs 52
5. OKC 50
6. Blazers 47
7. Rockets 47
8. Jazz 45
9. Hornets 45
10 Suns 44

I think bottom of West will be fierce ... (7,8,9,10)
And middle (3,4,5) will be fierce ...

Note Nugggets scare me (bad way) I could see Spurs OKC blazers or Rox stealing#3 if they implode ...

What happend to the 2 Nuggets fans we had here ?

[Amarelooms]

1. Lakers (60 wins)
8. Spurs (48 wins)

4. Thunder (53 wins)
5. Blazers (52 wins)

3. Hornets (55 wins)
6. Jazz (51 wins)

2. Nuggets (56 wins)
7. Rockets (49 wins)

Son you and your hate for the Mavs is ridiculous. Show them some respect like the article states son. God bless

:elephant

[DPG21920]

Amare, why do all the other Mav fans dislike you?

[objective]

The Suns made the WCF when Amare was out with microfracture, but now the majority of people think they're not even a playoff team?

Ridiculous. A full season of Robin Lopez at center, the development of Dragic, the addition of Childress, and Hedo to fill the role of a fat 6-10 passing big man 2006 Boris Diaw. And that's ignoring Warrick who I don't think much of.

They'll be in the playoffs without catastrophic injuries.

[TinTin]

I am surprised there are no posts by deluded spurs fans claiming that they'll take the second seed

[BRHornet45]

sons the Suns, Spurs, and Mavs will fight it out for the 8th seed with it finishing like this ...

8. Spurs
9. Suns
10. Mavericks

[Basketballgirl25]

Anything is possible in the NBA, but I have a feeling this team will be good. I read somewhere where the Mavs will have something like 21 million dollars in expiring contracts come the trade dealine, so I suspect that if u see these Mavs struggling in February to stay in the top 3 out West then Mark might use those assets like he did last year and pull off a blockbuster deadline deal.

Well Mavs not being good is just my gut feeling right now, because Dirk is getting older, so he can't carry the team forever. If they do good great, I'll cheer for them instead of rooting against them this season if they have a chance to beat Miami:toast

[Amarelooms]

Amare, why do all the other Mav fans dislike you?

Son hate is a strong word....why should anyone hate a bunch of fools on a message board lol

:elephant

[Amarelooms]

sons the Suns, Spurs, and Mavs will fight it out for the 8th seed with it finishing like this ...

8. Spurs
9. Suns
10. Mavericks

Son I am willing to bet you anything the Mavs have a better record than the Hornets....God bless

:elephant

[DPG21920]

Son hate is a strong word....why should anyone hate a bunch of fools on a message board lol

:elephant

I did not say hate, I said dislike. God Bless.

[TD 21]

1. Los Angeles Lakers
2. Portland Trail Blazers
3. San Antonio Spurs
4. Dallas Mavericks
5. Oklahoma City Thunder
6. Houston Rockets
7. Utah Jazz
8. Phoenix Suns
9. Denver Nuggets
10. New Orleans Hornets
11. Memphis Grizzlies
12. Los Angeles Clippers
13. Sacramento Kings
14. Golden State Warriors
15. Minnesota Timberwolves

2-3 could go either way. But the Trail Blazers are younger and deeper, so I'll give them the edge.

I really like the depth and balance of the Rockets. I would not be shocked if they found a way to get home court, but I think it's a safer bet to go with a team like the Mavs who, while I think their upside is lower, I think their downside is too.

8-9-10 could go any way. I'm giving the edge to the Suns over the Nuggets because I like their chemistry better. I think the Nuggets will self destruct next season. The Hornets are too thin (at this writing, at least) to make the playoffs in the West.

[Indazone]

Blazers at number 2? Why?

[TD 21]

I think it's their time. They've been deep for a while, but some of their key younger players have had a few years to mature, they've got a better mix of young and old and last season, despite being not decimated, but destroyed by injuries, they were still between good and very good. That says a lot. Also, they're somewhat flying under the radar this year. The Thunder have taken over as the young darlings of the league who people are eager to make seem better than they are right now.

As I said though, I think the Trail Blazers and Spurs as a 50/50 proposition (regular season, at least), so I could easily see them finishing third.

[DPG21920]

If I had to guess:

LA
UTAH
OKC
DAL
POR
NO
DEN
SA

[DeadlyDynasty]

If I had to guess:

LA
UTAH
OKC
DAL
POR
NO
DEN
SA

another Jazz believer:toast

[DPG21920]

Utah is a very good team and even though I have cooled on Al a little, I think Boozer was sucking the life out of the team. No one seemed to trust him although he was talented. I think bringing in Al whom is comparable talent wise breaths some new life into the team and they will be solid imo.

[Xylus]

Nash has a bunch of athletic wingmen who shoot the 3 very well. No way the Suns miss the playoffs.

[DPG21920]

I think losing Amare is a big blow. I can see the Suns making the playoffs, but I feel it will be a tight race at the bottom and the Suns will get bumped out.

[Killakobe81]

I think it's their time. They've been deep for a while, but some of their key younger players have had a few years to mature, they've got a better mix of young and old and last season, despite being not decimated, but destroyed by injuries, they were still between good and very good. That says a lot. Also, they're somewhat flying under the radar this year. The Thunder have taken over as the young darlings of the league who people are eager to make seem better than they are right now.

As I said though, I think the Trail Blazers and Spurs as a 50/50 proposition (regular season, at least), so I could easily see them finishing third.

I doubt Portland gets that high ..not impossible but not probable ...dudes never stay healthy and I think too much of their talent plays the same spot ...

They free up space by trading Webster than sign Matthews Rudy is unhappy ...I just don't see the love affair with the Blazers ...

They have great talent but the roles are undefined ...on a young team that is fatal ...

[TD 21]

I doubt Portland gets that high ..not impossible but not probable ...dudes never stay healthy and I think too much of their talent plays the same spot ...

They free up space by trading Webster than sign Matthews Rudy is unhappy ...I just don't see the love affair with the Blazers ...

They have great talent but the roles are undefined ...on a young team that is fatal ...

Wrong again.

How is it not probable? Because you don't think it and the general consensus is the Thunder will be in that spot? Even if they're not healthy, they've got strong depth and I do think they're due to be at least somewhat healthy next season. Not saying Oden plays a full 82, but they don't need him to. If he gives them 70 games, they're probably getting home court.

Take Fernandez out and they still have Camby, Matthews, Bayless, Pryzbilla and Babbitt as their rotation guys off the bench, to augment a very good starting lineup.

The roles should be more defined next season, so long as Fernandez is gone.

They've got tremendous size, lots of depth, shooting, a legit go-to scorer and their rebounding and shot blocking is going to be right near the top of the league, if not first.

[Killakobe81]

Wrong again.

How is it not probable? Because you don't think it and the general consensus is the Thunder will be in that spot? Even if they're not healthy, they've got strong depth and I do think they're due to be at least somewhat healthy next season. Not saying Oden plays a full 82, but they don't need him to. If he gives them 70 games, they're probably getting home court.

Take Fernandez out and they still have Camby, Matthews, Bayless, Pryzbilla and Babbitt as their rotation guys off the bench, to augment a very good starting lineup.

The roles should be more defined next season, so long as Fernandez is gone.

They've got tremendous size, lots of depth, shooting, a legit go-to scorer and their rebounding and shot blocking is going to be right near the top of the league, if not first.


4 guys need the ball to be effective: Rudy, Roy, Andre and Bayless

If Babbitt is playing a lot then that is not a good sign ...

Oden, Roy, Batum are injury prone ...Roy just has played through a lot of his ...

I hope they ARE healthy and if so they have a a chance at a #2 but Why should they picked over dallas?

Dirk is the best player on either team ...
Dallas has depth too
Caron will be there for a full season ...
They have young talent to develop as well ...

They may get beat by your Spurs again in Round 1, but the Mavs to me are more probable to finish 2nd ...

If you were betting a paycheck would you bet on Portland finishing ahead of Dallas?
I know the Mavs are hated in SA bevause i lived there ...but honestly it is a vet's league.

Look at ECF, WCF and 1 and 2 seeds of of the past 3 playoffs ...
Orlando, New Orleans and Cleveland are probaly the only relatively young teams to pull that off ...and they were Led by MVP caliber years from:
Lebron Howard and Cp3

Who on the Blazers is even in that class?

[ezau]

sons the suns, spurs, and mavs will fight it out for the 8th seed with it finishing like this ...

8. Spurs
9. Suns
10. Mavericks

121-63

[BRHornet45]

121-63

son the Spurs won't even win 50 games next season. I predicted them to win 48, but I was being generous. They are steadily declining each and every year as Duncan continues to get shittier and shittier as he ages. Props for what the Spurs have done in the past, but that organization is showing no signs of planning for the future.

[HarlemHeat37]

OKC is being overrated IMO..they were one of the healthiest teams in the NBA last year, and teams are going to be hunting them this season..they will be slightly better with the added depth and internal improvement IMO..they might get the #2 seed, but they won't be the #2 best team with Jeff Green as their starting PF and #3 option..

I can see Denver collapsing..Anthony appears to have 1 foot out the door, and they always have their chemistry problems..they will probably still be a playoff team, but I can see a collapse happening..

Portland and Houston can both be nasty teams if healthy, especially Portland, but what are the odds of that?..

Utah will be the same old team..

I love Chris Paul, but the Hornets are horrible, I don't know why people are discussing them making the playoffs..

The West is pretty weak overall..

[DeadlyDynasty]

4 guys need the ball to be effective: Rudy, Roy, Andre and Bayless

If Babbitt is playing a lot then that is not a good sign ...

Oden, Roy, Batum are injury prone ...Roy just has played through a lot of his ...

I hope they ARE healthy and if so they have a a chance at a #2 but Why should they picked over dallas?

Dirk is the best player on either team ...
Dallas has depth too
Caron will be there for a full season ...
They have young talent to develop as well ...

They may get beat by your Spurs again in Round 1, but the Mavs to me are more probable to finish 2nd ...

If you were betting a paycheck would you bet on Portland finishing ahead of Dallas?
I know the Mavs are hated in SA bevause i lived there ...but honestly it is a vet's league.

Look at ECF, WCF and 1 and 2 seeds of of the past 3 playoffs ...
Orlando, New Orleans and Cleveland are probaly the only relatively young teams to pull that off ...and they were Led by MVP caliber years from:
Lebron Howard and Cp3

Who on the Blazers is even in that class?

agreed...I'm sick of hearing about "potential." If the Blazers can finally put one relatively healthy season together and play to their talent level then I will become a believer. Till then, I don't buy them finishing at 2 (or even 3)

[DeadlyDynasty]

OKC is being overrated IMO..they were one of the healthiest teams in the NBA last year, and teams are going to be hunting them this season..they will be slightly better with the added depth and internal improvement IMO..they might get the #2 seed, but they won't be the #2 best team with Jeff Green as their starting PF and #3 option..

I can see Denver collapsing..Anthony appears to have 1 foot out the door, and they always have their chemistry problems..they will probably still be a playoff team, but I can see a collapse happening..

Portland and Houston can both be nasty teams if healthy, especially Portland, but what are the odds of that?..

Utah will be the same old team..

I love Chris Paul, but the Hornets are horrible, I don't know why people are discussing them making the playoffs..

The West is pretty weak overall..

THIS...Jeff Green is a turd



but I disagree about Utah...I think DPG brought up a good point about Boozer the Blackhole. I see Utah having a great season.

[BRHornet45]

I love Chris Paul, but the Hornets are horrible, I don't know why people are discussing them making the playoffs..


son give me ONE good fact to back up this statement. The Hornets have been a solid playoff team for 2 of the last 3 seasons and the ONLY reason they didn't get in last year was because of multiple injuries. I'm not saying that we are an elite, title contending team ... but we are a legit playoff team who WILL win 55 games this season. I can understand you saying something along the lines of "the Hornets are ok, maybe a 7th or 8th seed" ... but "horrible"??? how is this starting lineup "horrible"?

Paul
Thornton
Ariza
West
Okafor

[TD 21]

Fernandez could be traded, if not, he can function as a spot up shooter or go to scorer on the second unit. Bayless needs the ball, but he can function as either the secondary option or, if Fernandez is traded, as a go-to option on the second unit.

Who said Babbitt would play a lot? If Fernandez stays, he's out of the rotation entirely. If Fernandez goes, he's the tenth man and likely plays sparingly (unless injuries occur), giving them another shooter.

I know they are, I just think as a whole they're due to be somewhat healthy and even if they're not, I like the team's depth and size.

Why should the perpetually overrated Mavs be picked over them? With their old ass team and flawed core. I'm picking them 4th because they're a safe pick, but short of a monumental trade, they're not going anywhere again.

A healthy Roy is in Nowitzki's class.
The Trail Blazers have depth.
At this writing, the Trail Blazers are relatively healthy. I'll take that over "Butler for a full season". Butler is a better version of Jefferson at this point, he's far removed from where he was a couple of seasons ago.
They do? Who? Beaubois and that's it. When Beaubois is healthy, Jones will not be in the rotation (unless they bench Barea and play without a backup PG) and Mahinmi has no chance to play barring injury.

I'm not going to say the Mavs can't finish 2nd; they could. As we all know, from 2-9, these teams are close. I'm not saying there's a gargantuan gap between the Trail Blazers and the Mavs.

I'm not a betting man, but I'd give the Trail Blazers the edge, yes.
It's not about me hating the Mavs. I hate the Lakers and you don't see me putting them 3rd. I've just never been sold on the Mavs core and I think they're going to have some unhappy veterans who still think of themselves as being in their halcyon days who are going to be playing less minutes than they're used to.

Size, depth and star power wins in this league...in the regular season, at least. Roy is a top 15 and at his absolute peak, a fringe top 10 player. I wouldn't call him a full fledged superstar, but he's a legit go-to guy. Their size, if healthy, is ridiculous. They're going to dominate the boards and protect the rim as well as anybody.

I like how the Trail Blazers, Rockets and Spurs (though I think they need one more piece; a quality 3+D SF) are built.

[Killakobe81]

OKC is being overrated IMO..they were one of the healthiest teams in the NBA last year, and teams are going to be hunting them this season..they will be slightly better with the added depth and internal improvement IMO..they might get the #2 seed, but they won't be the #2 best team with Jeff Green as their starting PF and #3 option..

I can see Denver collapsing..Anthony appears to have 1 foot out the door, and they always have their chemistry problems..they will probably still be a playoff team, but I can see a collapse happening..
Portland and Houston can both be nasty teams if healthy, especially Portland, but what are the odds of that?..

Utah will be the same old team..

I love Chris Paul, but the Hornets are horrible, I don't know why people are discussing them making the playoffs..

The West is pretty weak overall..

Agree. This is the Harlem, I like to see great post! When you are not hating or trolling you bring the goods ...

[DeadlyDynasty]

son give me ONE good fact to back up this statement. The Hornets have been a solid playoff team for 2 of the last 3 seasons and the ONLY reason they didn't get in last year was because of multiple injuries. I'm not saying that we are an elite, title contending team ... but we are a legit playoff team who WILL win 55 games this season. I can understand you saying something along the lines of "the Hornets are ok, maybe a 7th or 8th seed" ... but "horrible"??? how is this starting lineup "horrible"?

Paul
Thornton
Ariza
West
Okafor
it's not...but if you expect that team to win 55 games--with a deplorable bench--then they will be out of gas by the time the playoffs roll around. I think N.O. is pretty dece when healthy, but they might have the worst depth in the West

[TD 21]

How is the West weak? The top of the East is better than the top of the West, but after that, the West is far deeper than the East. The East goes six deep with quality teams. The West could have as many as eleven.

[21_Blessings]

but I disagree about Utah...I think DPG brought up a good point about Boozer the Blackhole. I see Utah having a great season.

Yeah Jeff Green needs to be traded yesterday.

If you thought Boozer was a blackhole wait until Utah fan experiences Al Jefferson's defense for 82 games :lol. Boozer is a fantastic jumpshooter and he ran the pick and pop/roll with Deron extremely well.

[Killakobe81]

How is the West weak? The top of the East is better than the top of the West, but after that, the West is far deeper than the East. The East goes six deep with quality teams. The West could have as many as eleven.

Agree. That was the ONE part of Harlem's last post I disagreed with.

New Orleans is a 45 win team if healthy and they probably looing at 8, 9 or 10 in the west ...

In the east that is likely in the hunt for 6 or 7 ...

[BRHornet45]

it's not...but if you expect that team to win 55 games--with a deplorable bench--then they will be out of gas by the time the playoffs roll around. I think N.O. is pretty dece when healthy, but they might have the worst depth in the West

son my personal prediction is 55 wins. I would expect nothing less than 50 wins however. People are really overrating teams like the Thunder in my opinion. good team, with one of the top players in the NBA, but come on. I know this type of overrating all too well ... I remember a few years ago whenever my Hornets won 56 games with a young, superstar in the making PG and impressed everyone in the playoffs ... then the next season we were like a 5 to 1 odds to win the NBA championship! The Thunder are no doubt a damn good exciting team, but injuries happen and their bench is shit.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Yeah Jeff Green needs to be traded yesterday.

If you thought Boozer was a blackhole wait until Utah fan experiences Al Jefferson's defense for 82 games :lol. Boozer is a fantastic jumpshooter and he ran the pick and pop/roll with Deron extremely well.

I've heard that about him but tbh i've seen more of his statlines than highlights (byproduct of playing for the T-Wolves i guess)...is his D really THAT bad?

[Bito Corleone]

Regular Season:
1. Lakers
2. Mavs
3. OKC
4. Spurs
5. Nuggets
6. Jazz
7. Hornets
8. Rockets/Blazers/Suns comes down to a tie-break

Home court holds serve in 1st round except OKC will lose to the Jazz
Lakers & Jazz advance to WCFs (Lakers win)
Lakers beat Orlando in the Finals for Kobe's 6th ring and Phil's 12th

[ezau]

son the Spurs won't even win 50 games next season. I predicted them to win 48, but I was being generous. They are steadily declining each and every year as Duncan continues to get shittier and shittier as he ages. Props for what the Spurs have done in the past, but that organization is showing no signs of planning for the future.

Son, please don't talk trash if your team lost like a million points in a playoff game. Also, the Hornets have only been significant for like one or two years. After that, they've become the laughing stock that they should have been in the first place. God Bless son. I'm not hating, just stating facts.

[DeadlyDynasty]

son my personal prediction is 55 wins. I would expect nothing less than 50 wins however. People are really overrating teams like the Thunder in my opinion. good team, with one of the top players in the NBA, but come on. I know this type of overrating all too well ... I remember a few years ago whenever my Hornets won 56 games with a young, superstar in the making PG and impressed everyone in the playoffs ... then the next season we were like a 5 to 1 odds to win the NBA championship! The Thunder are no doubt a damn good exciting team, but injuries happen and their bench is shit.

I agree that the Thunder bandwagon is overflowing and the team is faced with unrealistic expectations this year, but having a transcendent superstar who's also the NBA's top scorer will garner such attention

[BRHornet45]

Son, please don't talk trash if your team lost like a million points in a playoff game. Also, the Hornets have only been significant for like one or two years. After that, they've become the laughing stock that they should have been in the first place. God Bless son. I'm not hating, just stating facts.

lol son Tim Duncan is the only reason your Spurs are relevant as well because they were the laughing stock of the NBA before him. Not hating, just stating the facts.

[HarlemHeat37]

-The West is weak because the top teams can't challenge LA, Miami, Boston or even Orlando IMO..the East will have 3 teams potentially competing to make the Finals, while the West will only have 1 team..I also believe it's possible that Chicago, Atlanta and maybe even Milwaukee will be as good as any non-Lakers team in the West..

-New Orleans isn't horrible, obviously hyperbole, but I don't think they're a playoff team..Paul won't be sharp from the beginning IMO, it will take him a little while to get back to his superstar status, which will hurt, since they're going to need him to be sharp right away..I'm not a fan of the Okafor/West frontcourt on either side of the floor..they don't really have any depth..

If Paul is in form from the get-go, I could see them making a playoff push, but otherwise, I don't see it..

-I don't think Utah will be much better, if better at all..

While Jefferson is levels better than Boozer as a post-up player, Boozer is a much better pick and roll big(Jefferson is good at it too, so it won't be a massive drop-off, but Boozer is one of the best in the NBA), a much better passer, a better shooter, and a much better transition big..

He is also a slightly better defender, although you probably won't see a big change..

I think it could be better from a long-term perspective, but I don't see it right away..their system will have to change to fit in Jefferson's post game, they will have to work around his lack of passing ability too..I don't see the chemistry being nearly the same as with Boozer, at least not from the beginning..these things don't work right away..

I also think losing Wes Matthews could hurt too..

[BRHornet45]

I agree that the Thunder bandwagon is overflowing and the team is faced with unrealistic expectations this year, but having a transcendent superstar who's also the NBA's top scorer will garner such attention

son Chris Paul was the MVP of the NBA that year as well so the hype is very similar. He put up 22 and 12 ... that was the first time a player had put up at least 20 points and 10 assist since Isiah "let me hug and touch you" Thomas.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Hornets rule all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 60 wins

[BRHornet45]

Hornets rule all!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 60 wins


son lets not get carried away now ... 55 wins

[Kai]

So, assuming the Rockets are healthy, with Yao and Kevin Martin playing the entire season, we only win 3 more games?

[TD 21]

-The West is weak because the top teams can't challenge LA, Miami, Boston or even Orlando IMO..the East will have 3 teams potentially competing to make the Finals, while the West will only have 1 team..I also believe it's possible that Chicago, Atlanta and maybe even Milwaukee will be as good as any non-Lakers team in the West..

-New Orleans isn't horrible, obviously hyperbole, but I don't think they're a playoff team..Paul won't be sharp from the beginning IMO, it will take him a little while to get back to his superstar status, which will hurt, since they're going to need him to be sharp right away..I'm not a fan of the Okafor/West frontcourt on either side of the floor..they don't really have any depth..

If Paul is in form from the get-go, I could see them making a playoff push, but otherwise, I don't see it..

-I don't think Utah will be much better, if better at all..

While Jefferson is levels better than Boozer as a post-up player, Boozer is a much better pick and roll big(Jefferson is good at it too, so it won't be a massive drop-off, but Boozer is one of the best in the NBA), a much better passer, a better shooter, and a much better transition big..

He is also a slightly better defender, although you probably won't see a big change..

I think it could be better from a long-term perspective, but I don't see it right away..their system will have to change to fit in Jefferson's post game, they will have to work around his lack of passing ability too..I don't see the chemistry being nearly the same as with Boozer, at least not from the beginning..these things don't work right away..

I also think losing Wes Matthews could hurt too..

Like I said, they need one more piece, but it's attainable and assuming the Spurs acquire it, I think they can challenge the Lakers. If they could somehow get Posey if he's bought out, they'd be set. I'm not over hyping him, just saying he'd be a nice fit and would fill their need. I also think the Trail Blazers and Rockets are good enough to push the Lakers.

The Lakers are old, have only gotten older and at some point, all of the wear and tear of the past three seasons is going to catch up to them. Whether it's injuries, fatigue, one of the aforementioned teams just matching up well with them, etc., eventually they're not going to make the Finals despite being the best team in the West. We saw this with the Spurs at their peak.

Even if those teams can't challenge the Lakers, overall the conference is still indisputably deeper. The Bulls could be as good as any team after the Lakers in the West, but I'd be surprised (the other two have no shot at that). I like the Bulls, but they need a go-to wing player and more seasoning before they're ready to contend.

Completely agree about the Hornets. Though Paul will remind all the clowns who have forgotten about him that he's a top five or six player in the league.

Agree about the Jazz. Jefferson is not as good a fit as Boozer and Bell is at the age where any season he could fall off the face of the earth. Long term, I agree, Jefferson could be better, but not immediately. I think Matthews probably played, if not over his head, then at his peak last season. Bell should be a fine replacement, short term, at least, though as I said, at his age you can't be sure.

[Bito Corleone]

I agree that the Thunder bandwagon is overflowing and the team is faced with unrealistic expectations this year, but having a transcendent superstar who's also the NBA's top scorer will garner such attention

I don't necessarily think that the regular season expectations placed on them is that overblown. They are a great young team who is a threat to anybody any given night. However, I think that regardless of where they end up in the standings they will be out in the first round. They still don't have the experience that is needed to win in the playoffs. But, as the Mavs prove to us every year, being a great team in the regular season doesn't guarantee anything come playoff time.

[Killakobe81]

Top 5 I like Paul but ...

1. Lebron
2. Kobe
3. Wade (in some order)
4. Durant
5. Howard
6. Dirk
7. Dwill
8. Melo (in some order)

Who is Paul DEFINITIVELY better than? Especially coming off injury?

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

ezau and killakobe81 make sense. +1

[BRHornet45]

Top 5 I like Paul but ...

1. Lebron
2. Kobe
3. Wade (in some order)
4. Durant
5. Howard
6. Dirk
7. Dwill
8. Melo (in some order)

Who is Paul DEFINITIVELY better than? Especially coming off injury?

Howard
Dirk
DWILL
MELO

no doubt about it.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Howard
Dirk
DWILL
MELO

no doubt about it.


LOL. This moron a few weeks ago was calling Chris Paul a little whiny bitch. Now he's better then Howard,Dirk,D Will, and Melo:rollin

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

and the Hornets will win 55 and be the 3rd seed lol

[Killakobe81]

Look BR no knocking what Cp3 did a 3 YEARS ago ...
Taking THAT team to a #2 seed was amazing as was his PER 22 and 10 etc ...Paul had an amazing season ...

But Dirk has won an MVP and taking his team to a Finals and the best record in the NBA
Howard has been to the Finals ...
DWill and Melo have led their team to the WCF ...

None of the above is coming off a major injury ...in some ways all are coming off career years ...(Dirk hit more Game winners even though his numbers were down)

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

+1,000

[BRHornet45]

Look BR no knocking what Cp3 did a 3 YEARS ago ...
Taking THAT team to a #2 seed was amazing as was his PER 22 and 10 etc ...Paul had an amazing season ...

But Dirk has won an MVP and taking his team to a Finals and the best record in the NBA
Howard has been to the Finals ...
DWill and Melo have led their team to the WCF ...

None of the above is coming off a major injury ...in some ways all are coming off career years ...(Dirk hit more Game winners even though his numbers were down)

are you really that ignorant? really??? ... son Paul has dropped 20 and 10 for the last 3 years. Not JUST 3 years ago ... wake up.

Dirk took his team to the finals and performed the biggest choke job in the history of professional sports

Howard went to the finals and won 1 game and halfass contributed

DWill has yet to learn how to put up 20 points per game. The dude turns the ball over more than any "legit" star should. There is a good reason why the NBA has only chosen him for one all star appearance and he has never made the all NBA 1st team. the dude is so overrated simply because of "grassroots/trendy" internet movements. Its "cool" to say Williams is the best. Paul owns him in nearly every single stat category, but hey its cool to say Williams is the best.

son Wade received the exact type of treatment whenever he got injured a couple years back. Ignorant/bandwagon fans immediately started counting him out, claiming that Shaq won his ring, etc. .... go look at that stats and the facts before spewing ignorant nonsense.

[redzero]

Top 5 I like Paul but ...

1. Lebron
2. Kobe
3. Wade (in some order)
4. Durant
5. Howard
6. Dirk
7. Dwill
8. Melo (in some order)

Who is Paul DEFINITIVELY better than? Especially coming off injury?

If we are talking about a healthy Chris Paul, I'd take him over Melo, Williams, Dirk, Durant and Howard, easily.

I still don't get why people think Williams is better than Paul when he's clearly not.

[BRHornet45]

I still don't get why people think Williams is better than Paul when he's clearly not.

because its just a cool thing to say. people think they are being different and unique by saying Williams is better. ignoring the facts and stats and rooting for the underdog is very popular in America.

[crc21209]

1. Lakers (60 wins)
8. Spurs (48 wins)

4. Thunder (53 wins)
5. Blazers (52 wins)

3. Hornets (55 wins)
6. Jazz (51 wins)

2. Nuggets (56 wins)
7. Rockets (49 wins)

The Rockets, Jazz, and Blazers jumping the Spurs? Wow...:lol

[BRHornet45]

The Rockets, Jazz, and Blazers jumping the Spurs? Wow...:lol

son I'm not trying to hate, just speaking facts ... the Spurs have been steadily declining every year and they BARELY won 50 games last season. They haven't improved at all this off season and Duncan is aging. I would be shocked if they win more than 45 games next season, but out of respect for their past I gave them 48 wins.

[crc21209]

If I had to guess:

LA
UTAH
OKC
DAL
POR
NO
DEN
SA

You are overrating NO and POR. Portland, no matter what year it is or what the situation is, always gets bit by the injury bug. New Orleans wont jump the Spurs either. Denver I can see totally imploding this year as well...

[crc21209]

son I'm not trying to hate, just speaking facts ... the Spurs have been steadily declining every year and they BARELY won 50 games last season. They haven't improved at all this off season and Duncan is aging. I would be shocked if they win more than 45 games next season, but out of respect for their past I gave them 48 wins.

Uh huh...so with the Spurs adding a pretty damn good quality big in Splitter (something they didnt have last year), they're going to be worse? Wow...OK. Because if you ask me a front-line of TD, Splitter, Blair, Dice, and Bonner as your 5th big looks pretty good to me. Adding 2 guys like Anderson and Neal > Bogans and Mason should be better as well. The Rockets, while OK...will miss Ariza this year and Yao just wont be the same anymore. And even though I think the Jazz got a better player in Jefferson, I think Boozer fit that Utah system more than Al Jefferson can. And Portland, again...with a injury prone Roy and Oden...you just never know with that team....can't trust them.

[Killakobe81]

because its just a cool thing to say. people think they are being different and unique by saying Williams is better. ignoring the facts and stats and rooting for the underdog is very popular in America.

The game is more than stats ...
DWill took his team to the 2nd round of the playoffs despite a host of injuries late ...
Last time paul was in the playoffs he was getting locked down by Dontay Jones ...

Sorry but that is the lasting image plus I have seena few head to head matchups that have told me DWill is better.

If Paul makes Ariza an all-star or Hornets approach 50+ wins I will give Paul the title back ...

[024]

it's going to be:

1. lakers
2. mavs
3. thunder
4. portland
5. rockets
6. spurs
7. nuggets
8. jazz

mavs will still do their regular season dominance, then choke in the playoffs. nuggets are pretty much done. melo is not improving and billups is getting exponentially worse. al jefferson, at best will replace boozer, which, at best, makes the jazz the same team. blazers will finally have a healthy year but still won't have a superstar like kevin durant, so they will finish a seed below the thunder. rockets, i kind of just threw them into the middle. they have very good defense and yao back would help drastically, even for part of the season. i think they have brad miller too if yao goes down. lastly, the spurs will suffer injuries here and there but manage to win 50+ games once again, good enough for the 6th seed.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

The game is more than stats ...
DWill took his team to the 2nd round of the playoffs despite a host of injuries late ...
Last time paul was in the playoffs he was getting locked down by Dontay Jones ...

Sorry but that is the lasting image plus I have seena few head to head matchups that have told me DWill is better.

If Paul makes Ariza an all-star or Hornets approach 50+ wins I will give Paul the title back ...


Pretty safe bet my man, considering we both know that aint happenning.

[Venti Quattro]

I think the Lakers can win 60-63 but will still lose to Miami in the overall HCA race. Miami will win in the 66-69 range. They can do more, but I don't think Miami will be shooting for 70 or more.

[Killakobe81]

If we are talking about a healthy Chris Paul, I'd take him over Melo, Williams, Dirk, Durant and Howard, easily.

I still don't get why people think Williams is better than Paul when he's clearly not.

I said definitively ...how is Paul coming off an injury ddefinitively better than thse guys?

Ok so based on 2008 ...

Kobe is better than Lebron
KG is better than Pau
CP3 better than Dwill
Yao is better than Howard
Pierce is better than Melo ... All definitively ...

Hornets fans living in 2008 ... then he was better than Dwill

Past 2 seasons Dwill has been healthier, his teams have gone further and he is the better player. Deal with it.
Paul does the things BR is hyping then Paul will take his title back ...

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

I think the Lakers can win 60-63 but will still lose to Miami in the overall HCA race. Miami will win in the 66-69 range. They can do more, but I don't think Miami will be shooting for 70 or more.


Tell Bill I said hi. Miami will get overall best record. Mainly cause I believe the Lakers dont need it if they get to the finals, they've proven that.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

D Will > Paul

[redzero]

The game is more than stats ...

Of course, if the stats show that one player is clearly superior even when missing half the season, you'll say they don't matter.


DWill took his team to the 2nd round of the playoffs despite a host of injuries late ...

Deron Williams had a far better supporting cast, with or without injury. All Chris Paul had was David West who had a bad back and a sore ankle.


Last time paul was in the playoffs he was getting locked down by Dontay Jones ...

If you think Paul wasn't double teamed, you're kidding yourself.


Sorry but that is the lasting image plus I have seena few head to head matchups that have told me DWill is better.

For the last time, head-to-head matches mean absolutely nothing. There are more teams than the Hornets and the Jazz.


If Paul makes Ariza an all-star or Hornets approach 50+ wins I will give Paul the title back ...

Why? Who has Williams made into an All Star?

The Williams supporters say the same exact thing over and over again. Yeah, Chris Paul lost by 58 points. So what? He was never swept.

[024]

Tell Bill I said hi. Miami will get overall best record. Mainly cause I believe the Lakers dont need it if they get to the finals, they've proven that.
when did they prove that?

[BRHornet45]

I said definitively ...how is Paul coming off an injury ddefinitively better than thse guys?

Ok so based on 2008 ...

Kobe is better than Lebron
KG is better than Pau
CP3 better than Dwill
Yao is better than Howard
Pierce is better than Melo ... All definitively ...

Hornets fans living in 2008 ... then he was better than Dwill

Past 2 seasons Dwill has been healthier, his teams have gone further and he is the better player. Deal with it.
Paul does the things BR is hyping then Paul will take his title back ...

son ever since they both came into the NBA Paul has done damn near EVERYTHING better than Williams .... Williams has struggled tremendously at turning the ball over and has proven that he isn't a clutch player at all (lol at him single handedly losing the all star game for the West and Dirk barking at him like a bitch) .... Williams isn't even a star scorer ... solid yes, but it takes an act of God for Williams to put up more than 18 points per game. Williams has never once led the NBA in ANYTHING, yet Paul has led the NBA in assist, steals, double doubles, numerous years. but hey ... stats aren't everything right? .... put Paul on the stacked Utah teams that Williams was blessed with and they would have already won a championship by now. Paul has had to deal with DAVID WEST being his best scoring option for fucks sake ... oh and Paul turned him into an all star.

[redzero]

I said definitively ...how is Paul coming off an injury ddefinitively better than thse guys?

Ok so based on 2008 ...

Kobe is better than Lebron
KG is better than Pau
CP3 better than Dwill
Yao is better than Howard
Pierce is better than Melo ... All definitively ...

Hornets fans living in 2008 ... then he was better than Dwill

Past 2 seasons Dwill has been healthier, his teams have gone further and he is the better player. Deal with it.
Paul does the things BR is hyping then Paul will take his title back ...

Why do you keep bringing up 2008? Chris Paul's 2008-2009 season was better than his 2007-2008 season. Hell, any season Chris Paul played is better than Deron William's best, from a statistical point of view. You act as if there is this huge drop off and you have written him off before you even know how he'll play.

[21_Blessings]

I've heard that about him but tbh i've seen more of his statlines than highlights (byproduct of playing for the T-Wolves i guess)...is his D really THAT bad?

Yes his D really is that bad. And that was before his ACL surgery and DUI.

Minnesota basically salary dumped him for a reason. It's not like a Darko/Love front court strikes fear into the rest of the league.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

when did they prove that?


You believe the Lakers can't win on the road in the Finals? They have proven they can.

[024]

You believe the Lakers can't win on the road in the Finals? They have proven they can.
they had HCA against the celtics and still had to play a seventh game. when they didn't have HCA, they were murdered by the celtics.

[BRHornet45]

You believe the Lakers can't win on the road in the Finals? They have proven they can.

son the Lakers can win at a dildo factory if they want to. as long as the league is on their side they will win.

[Chucho]

1. LA
2. Utah
3. S.A
4. Dallas
5. OKC
6. Portland
7. Denver - just looks like a mess waiting to happen. Melo possibly leaving, a bad KMart trade could possibly be made at the deadline as a salary dump if the Melo mess gets out of hand, possible injuries, Karl's health, Al Harrington
8. Houston

9. Phoenix- could be close.
10. Nawlins - that bench is not good enough to back them up if any starter gets bitten by the injury bug.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

1. LA
2. Dallas
3. OKC
4. Denver
5. Utah
6. Portland
7. SA
8. Houston

9. Phoenix- could be close.
10. Nawlins - that bench is not good enough to back them up if any starter gets bitten by the injury bug.

Fixed

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Actually Spurs 5, Jazz 7th

[ezau]

lol son Tim Duncan is the only reason your Spurs are relevant as well because they were the laughing stock of the NBA before him. Not hating, just stating the facts.

Son, if the David Robinson era is a laughing stock by your standards, I don't what the New Orleans or Charlotte or Katrina Hornets are before Chris Paul. Not hating son, just stating facts.

[ezau]

Top 5 I like Paul but ...

1. Lebron
2. Kobe
3. Wade (in some order)
4. Durant
5. Howard
6. Dirk
7. Dwill
8. Melo (in some order)

Who is Paul DEFINITIVELY better than? Especially coming off injury?

Son, even at Nash's advanced age, he's still better than Paul, so I agree with this. Also, no great player would allow his team to lose by 75 points in a playoff game. I'm not hating, just stating facts. Cheers to Paul and the Hornets:toast

[ezau]

are you really that ignorant? really??? ... son Paul has dropped 20 and 10 for the last 3 years. Not JUST 3 years ago ... wake up.

Dirk took his team to the finals and performed the biggest choke job in the history of professional sports

Howard went to the finals and won 1 game and halfass contributed

DWill has yet to learn how to put up 20 points per game. The dude turns the ball over more than any "legit" star should. There is a good reason why the NBA has only chosen him for one all star appearance and he has never made the all NBA 1st team. the dude is so overrated simply because of "grassroots/trendy" internet movements. Its "cool" to say Williams is the best. Paul owns him in nearly every single stat category, but hey its cool to say Williams is the best.

son Wade received the exact type of treatment whenever he got injured a couple years back. Ignorant/bandwagon fans immediately started counting him out, claiming that Shaq won his ring, etc. .... go look at that stats and the facts before spewing ignorant nonsense.

Son, as much as you would knock on Dirk, I would rather build my team around him than a point guard who is injury-prone and whose stats are overblown by his very weak supporting cast.

As good as Paul is, he will never be the cornerstone that Dirk is. Also, Dirk never let 121-63 happen to his team. God Bless son:toast

[BRHornet45]

oh sons I'm so sick of this. tired of fighting for the night

[TinTin]

I think prime dirk > prime cp3 but there are people who are underrating paul

How the fuck are the spurs seeded 3? They are one year older and granted the past season was riddled with injuries and they have added splitter but

the team (esp. duncan and manu) one year older > injury free + splitter season

[redzero]

Son, even at Nash's advanced age, he's still better than Paul, so I agree with this.

Chris Paul for the last three years > Steve Nash ever


Also, no great player would allow his team to lose by 75 points in a playoff game.

Good, because no great player has ever lost by 75 points.


I'm not hating, just stating facts. Cheers to Paul and the Hornets:toast

You haven't stated a single fact yet.

[ezau]

Chris Paul for the last three years > Steve Nash ever



Good, because no great player has ever lost by 75 points.



You haven't stated a single fact yet.

Son, I know it hurts, but Nash has led his team to the WCF several times in his entire career. A feat that Chris Paul can only dream of. In fact, they were just an Artest putback away from pushing the Lakers to the edge in this year's playoffs.

And oh, you guys have been shoving Pauls stats (which doesn't mean squat by the way) in the entire thread. Now let me tell you a secret, did you know that Nash is a 2-time MVP awardee? I believe your beloved boy, Chris Paul won't touch an MVP trophy his entire career. God Bless son and I'm not hating, just stating facts! Cheers:toast

[redzero]

Son, I know it hurts, but Nash has led his team to the WCF several times in his entire career. A feat that Chris Paul can only dream of. In fact, they were just an Artest putback away from pushing the Lakers to the edge in this year's playoffs.

And oh, you guys have been shoving Pauls stats (which doesn't mean squat by the way) in the entire thread. Now let me tell you a secret, did you know that Nash is a 2-time MVP awardee? I believe your beloved boy, Chris Paul won't touch an MVP trophy his entire career. God Bless son and I'm not hating, just stating facts! Cheers:toast

Oh, I got it--Nash being a 2 time MVP makes him better than Paul. Never mind the way he played to get the MVPs, because so long as he got the MVPs, it doesn't matter that Paul played better.

Is he better than Kobe, too? Kobe only has one MVP.

[ezau]

Oh, I got it--Nash being a 2 time MVP makes him better than Paul. Never mind the way he played to get the MVPs, because so long as he got the MVPs, it doesn't matter that Paul played better.

Is he better than Kobe, too? Kobe only has one MVP.

Son, Paul only has stats and a humiliating beatdown in the playoffs to show for his career. As good as he is, he should be considered lucky to be mentioned alongside Nash. Cheers son, not hating, just stating facts:toast

[redzero]

Son, Paul only has stats and a humiliating beatdown in the playoffs to show for his career. As good as he is, he should be considered lucky to be mentioned alongside Nash. Cheers son, not hating, just stating facts:toast

I'm sorry, what does Nash have? He never made it to the Finals with his 60+ win teams. His best season isn't better than Paul's best season? What has he done exactly?

[TE]

redzero makes a living out of arguing with internet prunes.

[BRHornet45]

redzero my nigga ... son just ignore these ignorant fools. we stacked and we know it. let them hate.

[redzero]

redzero makes a living out of arguing with internet prunes.

So does that make you an internet prune, too?

[redzero]

redzero my nigga ... son just ignore these ignorant fools. we stacked and we know it. let them hate.

Yeah, that's no reasoning with somebody who thinks MVPs determine that a player is better than another player.

[BRHornet45]

Yeah, that's no reasoning with somebody who thinks MVPs determine that a player is better than another player.

son the fact that Mr. "14 and 8" Steve Nash has 2 MVP awards is truly an embarrassment to the entire league. LOL 14 and 8 is his career average. how fucking pathetic is that for a "2-time MVP"???

[TE]

So does that make you an internet prune, too?

YES! you got me there, wow you got me.



Now lay off the argumentation. Especially for your team's sake. The Hornets aren't going anywhere, aren't contenders, won't win close to 50 games (Sorry BR), have a superstar who doesn't even want to play for them, face it, the Hornets aren't even a good marketable team with CP3. Sad to see how they were once good enough to beat the Spurs (2008)... Now they are trash.



Might as well become a football fan.

[ezau]

I'm sorry, what does Nash have? He never made it to the Finals with his 60+ win teams. His best season isn't better than Paul's best season? What has he done exactly?

Son, Nash had the misfortune of slamming against the Spurs Dynasty in the middle part of this decade. If not for the Spurs, he would have been counting LOBs by now. Paul's best season meanwhile is getting faceraped by the Spurs and his worst is, ummm, 121-63. Not hating son, just stating facts.

[ezau]

YES! you got me there, wow you got me.



Now lay off the argumentation. Especially for your team's sake. The Hornets aren't going anywhere, aren't contenders, won't win close to 50 games (Sorry BR), have a superstar who doesn't even want to play for them, face it, the Hornets aren't even a good marketable team with CP3. Sad to see how they were once good enough to beat the Spurs (2008)... Now they are trash.



Might as well become a football fan.

Son, Redzero and BRHornets are solid posters IMHO. However, their blind belief that CP3 is their franchise savior is tainting their legacy here at ST.

[TE]

Son, Redzero and BRHornets are solid posters IMHO. However, their blind belief that CP3 is their franchise savior is tainting their legacy here at ST.




BRhornet is a great poster, love to read his posts.


Redzero, however, truly acts like a condescending poster who is on his period most of the time.

[BRHornet45]

Son, Redzero and BRHornets are solid posters IMHO. However, their blind belief that CP3 is their franchise savior is tainting their legacy here at ST.

son I tainted my legacy on this board from day 1. keep hating. will you be woman enough to at least come back in this thread whenever the Hornets win 55 games at the end of the season?

[BRHornet45]

Might as well become a football fan.

son I am and can proudly say ... ONE RING BITCH!

http://blog.dhphotography.biz/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/DEH_saints_superbowl_rings_01-e1277509329969.jpg

[ezau]

son I tainted my legacy on this board from day 1. keep hating. will you be woman enough to at least come back in this thread whenever the Hornets win 55 games at the end of the season?

Agreed BR. Good luck to our teams and enjoy watching the WNBA LOL

[BRHornet45]

Agreed BR. Good luck to our teams and enjoy watching the WNBA LOL

son the playoffs are right around the corner who you got?

[ezau]

son the playoffs are right around the corner who you got?

Son, my heart goes for the Silver Stars, but the Storms are just wreaking havoc right now.

[Killakobe81]

Why do you keep bringing up 2008? Chris Paul's 2008-2009 season was better than his 2007-2008 season. Hell, any season Chris Paul played is better than Deron William's best, from a statistical point of view. You act as if there is this huge drop off and you have written him off before you even know how he'll play.

Defend your boy gentleman he is a great player ...

But who cares if he hasnt led the league in something?
Duncan may not of led big men in the league in rebounding, blocks or FG% some (most) years but he was STILL better than the guys that were ...

Stats only tell part of the story.
We can agree to disagaree here but truth of the matter is as a PG Dwill has taken teams further ... (college and pro)
He is a better shooter (and dont give me that Lebron efficiency crap, watch teh games)
And better and more versatile defender ...who can guard 2's for short stretches ...Paul cant cuz he is too short ..

[TD 21]

I think prime dirk > prime cp3 but there are people who are underrating paul

How the fuck are the spurs seeded 3? They are one year older and granted the past season was riddled with injuries and they have added splitter but

the team (esp. duncan and manu) one year older > injury free + splitter season

Prime Paul is better than prime Nowitzki. Nowitzki could have never done with the '08 Hornets what Paul did with them. Nowitzki is a vastly overrated, one dimensional player. I know he's a very efficient player and his stats look nice, but sometimes you have to look beyond that. This guy is a certified choker in games that actually matter and can't affect the game if he's not scoring.

The Spurs were the third best team in the West by the end of last season. Forget about them being the 7th seed. The first 2/3 of their season was ostensibly an extended training camp.

Also, considering how close 2-8 was in the West, anyone who thinks there's a significant gap between any of those teams is a fool. The point is, it's not like it would take a lot for the Spurs to go from 7 to 3. Next season, all the stars are aligned for them to hit the ground running.

I'm not going to assume Duncan will drop another level. If anything, he should be playing less games, a few less minutes but more importantly, a lot less arduous minutes, which should preserve him better throughout the season. When he's fresh, he can still dominate a game as much as any big man in the league. Ginobili's age is irrelevant. He's perilously close to his peak, so there's no point in even bringing up his age. Why is is that with Bryant and Nowitzki, their age rarely get's mentioned, but with Ginobili it always does?

Too many Spurs fans have become too critical of this team, picking them apart relentlessly, yet building up virtually every other credible team in the league as if they're all significantly better. I'm not saying the Spurs should be mentioned with the Lakers, Heat, Celtics and Magic (not at this writing, at least), but acting like there's no chance they could get home court or advance deep into the playoffs is ridiculous.

[BadOdor]

Sons I ain't hating on paul, great player, but let's be honest here: he can put all the stats he wants, at the end of the day he chocked big time in the biggest game he played(lol jannero pargo 14 4th quarter shots) and missed the playoffs in the consecutive season.

I'm not saying hd can' redeem himself, he's good enough player to win a title, possibly even as a number 1 option, but it's not preposterous to say dwill>paul. He owns him head to head and is clutch as well....

[BadOdor]

Prime Paul is better than prime Nowitzki. Nowitzki could have never done with the '08 Hornets what Paul did with them. Nowitzki is a vastly overrated, one dimensional player. I know he's a very efficient player and his stats look nice, but sometimes you have to look beyond that. This guy is a certified choker in games that actually matter and can't affect the game if he's not scoring.

The Spurs were the third best team in the West by the end of last season. Forget about them being the 7th seed. The first 2/3 of their season was ostensibly an extended training camp.

Also, considering how close 2-8 was in the West, anyone who thinks there's a significant gap between any of those teams is a fool. The point is, it's not like it would take a lot for the Spurs to go from 7 to 3. Next season, all the stars are aligned for them to hit the ground running.

I'm not going to assume Duncan will drop another level. If anything, he should be playing less games, a few less minutes but more importantly, a lot less arduous minutes, which should preserve him better throughout the season. When he's fresh, he can still dominate a game as much as any big man in the league. Ginobili's age is irrelevant. He's perilously close to his peak, so there's no point in even bringing up his age. Why is is that with Bryant and Nowitzki, their age rarely get's mentioned, but with Ginobili it always does?

Too many Spurs fans have become too critical of this team, picking them apart relentlessly, yet building up virtually every other credible team in the league as if they're all significantly better. I'm not saying the Spurs should be mentioned with the Lakers, Heat, Celtics and Magic (not at this writing, at least), but acting like there's no chance they could get home court or advance deep into the playoffs is ridiculous.

lol at "prime paul>prime dirk".

Prime dirk took a very average team to the finals. He got as close to a title as you possibly can without actually winning them.

Yeah, he choked, but so did paul.

Dirk skull fucked your team in 06, basically by himself.....but I guess that game 7 performance didn't actually "matter", right?:depressed

speaking of choking, how bout duncan's free throw % against phoenix? :lol:lol:lol

I'd say getting swept by the suns is pretty high up there on the embarrassment list.

[TD 21]

lol at "prime paul>prime dirk".

Prime dirk took a very average team to the finals. He got as close to a title as you possibly can without actually winning them.

Yeah, he choked, but so did paul.

Dirk skull fucked your team in 06, basically by himself.....but I guess that game 7 performance didn't actually "matter", right?:depressed

speaking of choking, how bout duncan's free throw % against phoenix? :lol:lol:lol

I'd say getting swept by the suns is pretty high up there on the embarrassment list.

Nowitzki is overrated in large part because he's white. Let's be honest, every time there's a white guy who's above average, damn near everyone defends him non stop and makes him out to be better than he is.

An average team? Are you insane? They lacked a 2nd (or 1st, to be honest) option for a championship caliber team, but that team had a bloated payroll, good depth and plenty of firepower. The real story was that they lost to a vastly inferior team. Why? Because Wade was significantly better than Nowitzki. I remember going into that, I said Wade was the best player in that series, but the consensus was it was Nowitzki. Since then, they haven't been mentioned in the same breathe.

Paul choked in the Finals against a vastly inferior team? Paul had a team with a top 3 payroll and couldn't get them over the top?

Nowitzki was being guarded by 6-7 Bowen and Finley for large stretches of that series. If he couldn't have dominated them, something would have been wrong. Duncan, playing with plantar fasciitis, destroyed the Mavs in that series. One of the greatest series I've ever seen.

Nothing can diminish Duncan's career at this point.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Nowitzki is overrated in large part because he's white. Let's be honest, every time there's a white guy who's above average, damn near everyone defends him non stop and makes him out to be better than he is.

An average team? Are you insane? They lacked a 2nd (or 1st, to be honest) option for a championship caliber team, but that team had a bloated payroll, good depth and plenty of firepower. The real story was that they lost to a vastly inferior team. Why? Because Wade was significantly better than Nowitzki. I remember going into that, I said Wade was the best player in that series, but the consensus was it was Nowitzki. Since then, they haven't been mentioned in the same breathe.

Paul choked in the Finals against a vastly inferior team? Paul had a team with a top 3 payroll and couldn't get them over the top?

Nowitzki was being guarded by 6-7 Bowen and Finley for large stretches of that series. If he couldn't have dominated them, something would have been wrong. Duncan, playing with plantar fasciitis, destroyed the Mavs in that series. One of the greatest series I've ever seen.

Nothing can diminish Duncan's career at this point.

I didn't realize Isiah Thomas posted here...

[BadOdor]

Nowitzki is overrated in large part because he's white. Let's be honest, every time there's a white guy who's above average, damn near everyone defends him non stop and makes him out to be better than he is.

Oh hi Br, what's up?



Nowitzki was being guarded by 6-7 Bowen and Finley for large stretches of that series. If he couldn't have dominated them, something would have been wrong.


Lol, spur fan will throw bowen under the buss the moment it suits his argument.



Duncan, playing with plantar fasciitis, destroyed the Mavs in that series. One of the greatest series I've ever seen.
Duncan, playing injured, dominating the mighty eric dampier??!!! what a warrior!



Nothing can diminish Duncan's career at this point.

Getting swept by the suns did.

[TD 21]

Oh hi Br, what's up?



Lol, spur fan will throw bowen under the buss the moment it suits his argument.


Duncan, playing injured, dominating the mighty eric dampier??!!! what a warrior!



Getting swept by the suns did.

Give me another reason why this one dimensional, certified choke artist, receives as much respect as he does? I'm not saying he's not a very good player, but virtually everyone slobbers over him. Yet back in the day, Webber, who was a much more talented all around player than Nowitzki, used to get ripped to shreds for being a choker and being soft. Same with Robinson, who was better than them both. Ewing and Garnett are others that used to get ripped relentlessly for choking.

I'm not throwing Bowen under the bus, I'm simply stating the facts: Bowen is 6-7, Nowitzki is 7-0. If he couldn't have dominated him, then something would have been wrong.

Dampier is a solid post defender, genius. So is Diop. He destroyed them.

At least he didn't not win a playoff round for three straight years in his prime...or need a shady "trade" to finally win championships as a lead player and inflate his legacy.

[BadOdor]

Give me another reason why this one dimensional, certified choke artist, receives as much respect as he does? I'm not saying he's not a very good player, but virtually everyone slobbers over him. Yet back in the day, Webber, who was a much more talented all around player than Nowitzki, used to get ripped to shreds for being a choker and being soft. Same with Robinson, who was better than them both. Ewing and Garnett are others that used to get ripped relentlessly for choking.

I'm not throwing Bowen under the bus, I'm simply stating the facts: Bowen is 6-7, Nowitzki is 7-0. If he couldn't have dominated him, then something would have been wrong.

Dampier is a solid post defender, genius. So is Diop. He destroyed them.

At least he didn't not win a playoff round for three straight years in his prime...or need a shady "trade" to finally win championships as a lead player and inflate his legacy.

Did duncan choke against the suns?

Dirk bukkaked duncan twice, almost sweeping him in 2009(preparing him for the actual sweep in 2010).

[TD 21]

No, he didn't. Did you even watch the series?

In '09, Duncan was playing on what he termed as "half a leg". Plus, Ginobili didn't play and the Spurs were obviously completely over matched. You've got the Mavs, who had, as usual, a bloated payroll, against the Spurs, who had Parker, an injured Duncan, a bunch of old, past their prime guys, who couldn't move and a coach playing a foolish rotation for much of the series.

In '06, Duncan was the best player in that series. In '03, he was by far the best player in that series. In '01, same thing.

Way to evade my question and cop out.

[BadOdor]

In '06, Duncan was the best player in that series


:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:l ol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol :lol:lol

[TD 21]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200605070SAS.html

The links to the rest of the games are above the boxscore.

This is what I mean though with people overrating Nowitzki. You're pretending that I'm a homer, but the reality of the situation is Duncan was the best player in that series.

[redzero]

Sons I ain't hating on paul, great player, but let's be honest here: he can put all the stats he wants, at the end of the day he chocked big time in the biggest game he played(lol jannero pargo 14 4th quarter shots) and missed the playoffs in the consecutive season.

I'm not saying hd can' redeem himself, he's good enough player to win a title, possibly even as a number 1 option, but it's not preposterous to say dwill>paul. He owns him head to head and is clutch as well....

1.) Paul did not choke in that game.
2.) The Hornets made the playoffs the next season, even with all the injuries.
3.) Head-to-head is a bullshit argument, for the millionth time.
4.) Williams does not own Paul in the clutch. If you have stats to back up your argument, please show them.

And I don't know why you're bringing up Deron, because his team lost in five to the Spurs the year before.

[SomeCallMeTim]

Nowitzki is overrated in large part because he's white. Let's be honest, every time there's a white guy who's above average, damn near everyone defends him non stop and makes him out to be better than he is.

Look, I'm not saying this couldn't be possible.

I will, however, point out that white dudes in the NBA could very well suffer from a sort of reverse stereotyping, where they get labelled as "unathletic" or whatever. From comments I read here and elsewhere, I think you can make a pretty good case for it. If it were just Dirk (who gets criminally underrated by a lot of people here, including yourself), then I'd figure it's just good old fashioned Mavhating.

But it's not just Dirk. It's David Lee. Kevin Love. Troy Murphy. All these guys are very valuable players. Lee and Love won't even sniff max contracts and they're much more worth it than guys like Amar'e or Joe Johnson.

So I agree it is likely racism has a lot to do with people making biased judgments of players, just that it goes both ways.

[TD 21]

Look, I'm not saying this couldn't be possible.

I will, however, point out that white dudes in the NBA could very well suffer from a sort of reverse stereotyping, where they get labelled as "unathletic" or whatever. From comments I read here and elsewhere, I think you can make a pretty good case for it. If it were just Dirk (who gets criminally underrated by a lot of people here, including yourself), then I'd figure it's just good old fashioned Mavhating.

But it's not just Dirk. It's David Lee. Kevin Love. Troy Murphy. All these guys are very valuable players. Lee and Love won't even sniff max contracts and they're much more worth it than guys like Amar'e or Joe Johnson.

So I agree it is likely racism has a lot to do with people making biased judgments of players, just that it goes both ways.

I've yet to hear someone come up with another reason for why Nowitzki receives as much praise and as little criticism as he does compared to those other players, many of whom were clearly better than him.

Listen to the talking heads. Every single one of them slobbers over every move that Nash (him the most, because he's small and flashy), Nowitzki and now Gasol, make. Is it just a coincidence?

You're right, sometimes white players are unfairly labeled as well. Babbitt was a perfect example. He was thought to not be athletic, until the combine testing, where he had some of the best scores in areas directly related to or associated with athleticism.

No chance Nowitzki is "criminally underrated". The vast majority of people here slobber over him relentlessly, none more so than Spurs fans themselves. BR is the only other person I consistently see talking about how overrated Nowitzki is.

I can assure you it has nothing to do with Mavs hating. Obviously, as a Spurs fan, I don't like the fans, but I also don't like the Lakers. However, my objectivity supersedes that. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that Bryant isn't one of the top few players in the game and isn't one of the best players of all-time (though I do think he's become overrated historically). When I'm talking about Nowitzki, I'm bringing up legitimate points that I've yet to see someone dispute with facts.

Lee and Love not "sniffing max contracts" has nothing to do with being white and everything to do with them not being considered true lead players or having much of a pedigree. Big time scorers like Granger, Ellis and Martin aren't "sniffing max contracts" either and why? Because they're not looked at as true lead players on good or better teams. Also, they're not perennial All-Stars, they haven't been on teams that have at least advanced past the first round multiple times, etc.

[DJB]

Anything is possible in the NBA, but I have a feeling this team will be good. I read somewhere where the Mavs will have something like 21 million dollars in expiring contracts come the trade dealine, so I suspect that if u see these Mavs struggling in February to stay in the top 3 out West then Mark might use those assets like he did last year and pull off a blockbuster deadline deal.

Did you have that feeling in 2006, 2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010?

:depressed

[ogait]

I've yet to hear someone come up with another reason for why Nowitzki receives as much praise and as little criticism as he does compared to those other players, many of whom were clearly better than him.

Listen to the talking heads. Every single one of them slobbers over every move that Nash (him the most, because he's small and flashy), Nowitzki and now Gasol, make. Is it just a coincidence?

You're right, sometimes white players are unfairly labeled as well. Babbitt was a perfect example. He was thought to not be athletic, until the combine testing, where he had some of the best scores in areas directly related to or associated with athleticism.

No chance Nowitzki is "criminally underrated". The vast majority of people here slobber over him relentlessly, none more so than Spurs fans themselves. BR is the only other person I consistently see talking about how overrated Nowitzki is.

I can assure you it has nothing to do with Mavs hating. Obviously, as a Spurs fan, I don't like the fans, but I also don't like the Lakers. However, my objectivity supersedes that. I'm not going to sit here and tell you that Bryant isn't one of the top few players in the game and isn't one of the best players of all-time (though I do think he's become overrated historically). When I'm talking about Nowitzki, I'm bringing up legitimate points that I've yet to see someone dispute with facts.

Lee and Love not "sniffing max contracts" has nothing to do with being white and everything to do with them not being considered true lead players or having much of a pedigree. Big time scorers like Granger, Ellis and Martin aren't "sniffing max contracts" either and why? Because they're not looked at as true lead players on good or better teams. Also, they're not perennial All-Stars, they haven't been on teams that have at least advanced past the first round multiple times, etc.

He gets more than his fair share of criticism imo. Your making it sound like your the first to ever call him a choke artist or a 7 foot shooting guard with no post game (not that I agree with either of those but that doesn't matter right now).

Maybe his failures or the failures by the others players you mentioned (Gasol/Nash) are not as scrutinized in comparison to other top players but the expectations associated with those are much more higher and so is the general attention given to them. The fact that there are so few ppl that expect Dirk to win a Championship or to even compete in an NBA final again is already an indication of how not overrated he is.
Also the race argument doesn't make any sense to me.

Either you genuinely think that Nowitsky is not more than an average NBA player or you've been reading way to many Mavs message boards.

[ezau]

Defend your boy gentleman he is a great player ...

But who cares if he hasnt led the league in something?
Duncan may not of led big men in the league in rebounding, blocks or FG% some (most) years but he was STILL better than the guys that were ...

Stats only tell part of the story.
We can agree to disagaree here but truth of the matter is as a PG Dwill has taken teams further ... (college and pro)
He is a better shooter (and dont give me that Lebron efficiency crap, watch teh games)
And better and more versatile defender ...who can guard 2's for short stretches ...Paul cant cuz he is too short ..

Killa bringing in the goods:toast

[ambchang]

Why am I not surprised that, once again, a Laker fan have trouble separating team accomplishments with individual accomplishments?

[Killakobe81]

Why am I not surprised that, once again, a Laker fan have trouble separating team accomplishments with individual accomplishments?

Why do you struggle with the concept ...that in a TEAM sport team acomplishments matter more than anything else?

So you prefer the individual greatness of George gervin over Manu?

BOTH are great players but Iceman is definitely the more accomplished player.
But Manu's contributions to 3 titles does not matter more? Seriously?

David in his prime probably had better stats than duncan (great PER and led the league in scoring) ...but is not duncan the greater spur?

I value winning, what a antiquated ('old school mentality as HH37 called it) concept.
I thought winning titles was the point ...silly me.

[Killakobe81]

Why am I not surprised that, once again, a Laker fan have trouble separating team accomplishments with individual accomplishments?

Anybody else find this ironic and amusing?
A spur fan, the franchise that is emodies team work and selflessness has a fan that argues for INDIVIDUAL accomplishment over team ...

In that case Kobe Bryant is the greatest player since MJ!!!
81
highest scoring average since
Scoring titles
All-star MVP's
dunk contest
most 40 and 50 point games since MJ ...

Yes, that is a MUCH better way to decide this ...