Chris Paul or Deron Williams?

[djohn2oo8]

I'd take Williams

[DeadlyDynasty]

D-Will...just personal preference I guess

[lil_penny]

Can't go wrong with either.. but personally id take d will.

[pauls931]

Chris Paul with the extended warranty. Else Deron all the way.

[BRHornet45]

Ask this question on any other basketball forum and majority would choose Paul. Spurstalk members have a personal beef against Paul and will vote against him simply out of spite. Its funny on this board because picking Williams is the trendy/cool thing to do. Ignore the stats and the facts

[anonoftheinternets]

less injury prone ....

[djohn2oo8]

Ask this question on any other basketball forum and majority would choose Paul. Spurstalk members have a personal beef against Paul and will vote against him simply out of spite. Its funny on this board because picking Williams is the trendy/cool thing to do. Ignore the stats and the facts

Nobody is saying Paul isn't a damn good player, however, deron is more of an all around player than CP3, with a better outside game, defense, and the ability of mastering the art of NOT flopping

[m33p0]

deron. big point guards are extremely rare.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

LMAO BRHORNET45. Deron Williams hands down.
Good thread djohn2008

[DeadlyDynasty]

Ask this question on any other basketball forum and majority would choose Paul. Spurstalk members have a personal beef against Paul and will vote against him simply out of spite. Its funny on this board because picking Williams is the trendy/cool thing to do. Ignore the stats and the facts

son your boy is a stud, but I've always been a huge D-Will fan and love his game. As a Laker fan who's seen him gives us fits in the playoffs for 3 straight seasons, I've come to appreciate his game. You can't go wrong with either of them IMO

[BRHornet45]

Nobody is saying Paul isn't a damn good player, however, deron is more of an all around player than CP3, with a better outside game, defense, and the ability of mastering the art of NOT flopping

Better outside game? Wtf dude thanks for proving my point that most of you don't even look at the facts and stats. Paul is a better outside shooter and his shooting percentages prove it! But hey Williams is 2 or 3 inches taller than Paul so he is better.... but Paul STILL out rebounds him as well! But hey stats and facts don't matter right? Lol ignorance is bliss

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Both are great players no doubt, but D-Will seems more complete in my mind.

[BRHornet45]

Better defense? How? Paul is a 1st team NBA all defense and led the league for 2 years in steals. Again though the facts mean nothing right?

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Allen Iverson was very good at steals, does that make him a good defender????

[djohn2oo8]

Better defense? How? Paul is a 1st team NBA all defense and led the league for 2 years in steals. Again though the facts mean nothing right?

lol Kobe made first team all defense, and Varejo second team, that award means shit

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Allen Iverson lead the league in steals 3 years in a row. And we all know Iverson was very medicore on D. Leading the league in steals doesn't mean ur a great defender.

[BRHornet45]

lol Kobe made first team all defense, and Varejo second team, that award means shit

LOL its hilarious because Williams hasn't done or won shit so he has no awards or honors to stand on. The fact is that if the tables were turned and Williams did have the awards and honors that Paul has you would be arguing in defense of them, but since he doesn't then the awards don't mean anything! Lol hipocrite ...

[DeadlyDynasty]

lol Kobe made first team all defense, and Varejo second team, that award means shit

still a terrific lockdown defender. I think Battier might still be the best at it, which is why I thi k you're bitter over him getting the nod each year

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Agreed. Kobe still can lockdown on D.

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

HYPOCRITE not hipocrite. just sayin

[BRHornet45]

Allen Iverson lead the league in steals 3 years in a row. And we all know Iverson was very medicore on D. Leading the league in steals doesn't mean ur a great defender.

But it also doesn't mean that you're a bad defender like you are attempting to say about Paul. He is an outstanding and quick defender and is very deserving of the 1st and or 2nd NBA all defense teams.

[djohn2oo8]

still a terrific lockdown defender. I think Battier might still be the best at it, which is why I thi k you're bitter over him getting the nod each year

I said he wasn't 1st team all nba defender, would you agree that Artest (yes i was wrong) deserved it more?

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

Agreed. I never stated Paul was a bad defender, I only said that Williams was better in my mind. No diss at Cp3 I think he's obviously a great player.

[djohn2oo8]

LOL its hilarious because Williams hasn't done or won shit so he has no awards or honors to stand on. The fact is that if the tables were turned and Williams did have the awards and honors that Paul has you would be arguing in defense of them, but since he doesn't then the awards don't mean anything! Lol hipocrite ...

Wait, so you claim the NBA to be "rigged", or as fake as the WWE, now it's legit because Paul has an award? lol "HYPOCRITE"MVP can be a deciding factor on who is the better player, not all NBA defensive team. Artest has been on there before, didn't make him the best player

[BRHornet45]

HYPOCRITE not hipocrite. just sayin

Ghazi NOT #41 Shoot Em Up ... just sayin

[DeadlyDynasty]

I said he wasn't 1st team all nba defender, would you agree that Artest (yes i was wrong) deserved it more?

I would agree, but not overwhelmingly...they both were great defensively this year and each put their stamp on the playoffs. Ron-Ron did a great job on Durant in the playoffs, but that series changed for good when Phil Jax assigned Kobe to Westbrook in Games 5 and 6. On the flipside, we don't beat the Celtics if Ariza, Kobe, or ANYBODY OTHER than Artest is defending Pierce.

[Red Hawk #21]

D-Will

[BRHornet45]

Wait, so you claim the NBA to be "rigged", or as fake as the WWE, now it's legit because Paul has an award? lol "HYPOCRITE"MVP can be a deciding factor on who is the better player, not all NBA defensive team. Artest has been on there before, didn't make him the best player

Other than the fact that you are trying to fit in with the trendy crowd, what other reason do you say that Williams is better? Since the awards, honors, and MUCH BETTER stats in nearly EVERY SINGLE category means NOTHING for Paul.... Williams doesn't have a leg to stand on other than a few fanboys like yourself who know next to nothing about the game.

[Thompson]

I think I might choose Deron Williams. They're both excellent on the court, but I like Williams more and I'm starting to wonder about Paul's off-the-court demeanor. They played well with Pargo backing him up, but Paul apparently felt threatened by him so they let him go. Collison did a great job in Paul's stead last year, and now he's gone (along with Posey) for Ariza.

It might be somewhat like the Shaq vs. Duncan debate. On the court they're pretty close, but Duncan is a franchise player you can build around for a generation, whereas Shaq will eventually create locker-room issues with his ego (making Duncan the choice by a landslide). I admit I'm not certain about Paul having such issues, but I wonder about it enough that I'd probably choose Williams to be safe.

[redzero]

Oh no! How could we let Jannero Pargo go?

For the last time, since some of the slow people here do not get it, Deron Williams is not a better shooter than Chris Paul. Repeatedly saying that "Williams has more range or Williams is a three point threat" won't change the fact that Chris Paul is has a better field goal percentage and three-point percentage than Williams. Even going into advanced statistics, Paul has a better true shooting percentage, so please stop saying that Williams is a better shooter.

And while we're doing comparisons, Chris Paul is also a better passer, is less turnover prone and he is a better rebounder. Williams is not a better defender. Period.

But at least Williams is taller, so one could say he does that better than Chris Paul.

[Brazil]

this shit again ? there are already 1000000 threads about that

[balli]

Deron Williams is thrice the defensive threat that little, short, weigh-nothing Paul is. Deron will bang with two guards. He'll chest up Kobe in the high post. Paul gets cummed on by Chauncey, Deron or anyone else who wants to score really. And Paul can't switch on the perimeter without getting embarrassed even more than he routinely does by even mediocre PGs. Oh, but he gambles the passing lanes for two steals a game though right? Yeah, that makes him such a better defender.

Paul's also a flopping, butthurt, injury prone little bitch. He doesn't have cartilage in his knee. He's an organizational cancer.

Deron. Hands down. Without a question. Anyone who says different is flat wrong.

[Cane]

CP3 got injured and he's got to prove that he can be the player he once was again. D-Will ftw until then.

[spursfan1000]

Chris Paul was out for a long time last season, if he can return to how he was pre-injury then I would have to go with CP3.

[Red Hawk #21]

Deron Williams is thrice the defensive threat that little, short, weigh-nothing Paul is. Deron will bang with two guards. He'll chest up Kobe in the high post. Paul gets cummed on by Chauncey, Deron or anyone else who wants to score really. And Paul can't switch on the perimeter without getting embarrassed even more than he routinely does by even mediocre PGs. Oh, but he gambles the passing lanes for two steals a game though right? Yeah, that makes him such a better defender.

Paul's also a flopping, butthurt, injury prone little bitch. He doesn't have cartilage in his knee. He's an organizational cancer.

Deron. Hands down. Without a question. Anyone who says different is flat wrong.

Balli with the goods yet again. Good post hermano :toast

[redzero]

Deron Williams is thrice the defensive threat that little, short, weigh-nothing Paul is. Deron will bang with two guards. He'll chest up Kobe in the high post. Paul gets cummed on by Chauncey, Deron or anyone else who wants to score really. And Paul can't switch on the perimeter without getting embarrassed even more than he routinely does by even mediocre PGs. Oh, but he gambles the passing lanes for two steals a game though right? Yeah, that makes him such a better defender.

Paul's also a flopping, butthurt, injury prone little bitch. He doesn't have cartilage in his knee. He's an organizational cancer.

Deron. Hands down. Without a question. Anyone who says different is flat wrong.

You haven't actually made any points at all.

[balli]

You haven't actually made any points at all.

Sure I did. I pointed out that Paul can't guard size, either the averagely built pg, or much less a solid two. (Actually, guarding two guards is something that is so vastly out of Paul's league that he shouldn't even dream about it at night.) I pointed out that Paul gets shat on, routinely, and can only resort to sagging into passing lanes. I pointed out that he gets severely injured all the time. I pointed out that he flops; that's another thing he resorts to in lieu of defensive ability. I pointed out that he generally cries and carries on like a little bitch; to refs, to teammates, to coaches, to ownership, to newspapers, to diners in NYC. I pointed out that he no longer has a meniscus in his left knee.

Those are the points I made.

[21_Blessings]

I pointed out that he no longer has a meniscus in his left knee.


:lol

[redzero]

Sure I did. I pointed out that Paul can't guard size, either the averagely built pg, or much less a solid two. (Actually, guarding two guards is something that is so vastly out of Paul's league that he shouldn't even dream about it at night.)

When did Williams become this lockdown defender all of a sudden?


I pointed out that Paul gets shat on, routinely, and can only resort to sagging into passing lanes.

Proof? Oh, you're just going to talk about the Nuggets series when Rasual Butler guarded Chauncey Billups. Never mind.


I pointed out that he gets severely injured all the time.

He has one injury plagued season in the last three years, and now he is injured all the time.


I pointed out that he flops; that's another thing he resorts to in lieu of defensive ability.

Oh, Chris Paul is so horrible defensively that he was on All Defense 1st team, All Defense 2nd team, was sixth in the NBA in defensive win shares once, was tenth in the NBA in defensive win shares once, and so on. Also, the Hornets are a much worse defensive team without Chris Paul.

But Williams is taller so he's better.


I pointed out that he generally cries and carries on like a little bitch; to refs, to teammates, to coaches, to ownership, to newspapers, to diners in NYC.

Which is completely irrelevant when discussing who the better player is, dumbass.


I pointed out that he no longer has a meniscus in his left knee.

Which doesn't make Williams better.


Those are the points I made.

And they were all shit.

What about Paul being a better scorer, shooter, passer, rebounder, and less turnover prone? There's no point denying that, because stats don't lie.

Oh, you're just going to say that he has the ball in his hands all the time.

Well, Deron turns the ball over more and is a worse shooter, so I guess his numbers would be even worse if he had the ball even longer.

[IronMexican]

CP3, without much of a second though.

[DAF86]

I love these kind of threads.

And yeah, CP3 is better.

[Purch]

Ask this question on any other basketball forum and majority would choose Paul. Spurstalk members have a personal beef against Paul and will vote against him simply out of spite. Its funny on this board because picking Williams is the trendy/cool thing to do. Ignore the stats and the facts

What that's funny?

Prosports daily just had a poll thread of the best point guards in the Nba and they voted D-Will.

Insidehoops had a thread the other day on Cp3 vs D-Will and they voted D-Will

Hell even most people on realgm claimed D-Will as the best pg


By Basketball forum are you referring to Hornets forums :lol

[redzero]

What that's funny?

Prosports daily just had a poll thread of the best point guards in the Nba and they voted D-Will.

Insidehoops had a thread the other day on Cp3 vs D-Will and they voted D-Will

Hell even most people on realgm claimed D-Will as the best pg


By Basketball forum are you referring to Hornets forums :lol

These people had this knee jerk reaction and voted for Williams because Paul was injured.

[Purch]

These people had this knee jerk reaction and voted for Williams because Paul was injured.

Lol o ok. Cause we should listen to you guys instead because you're less biased hornets fan instead of the neutral fans that voted in the polls ?

:lol

But of course since Hornets fans know best :lmao

[redzero]

Lol o ok. Cause we should listen to you guys instead because you're less biased hornets fan instead of the neutral fans that voted in the polls ?

:lol

But of course since Hornets fans know best :lmao

Hey, I already made my points. Do you care to refute them? Is Williams the better passer? Scorer? Shooter? Rebounder?

[Purch]

Well since you're a Hornets fan I'm assuming you're obsessed with stats. So you'll probably claim things like Paul is a better shooter then Deron because of a higher fg% percent and 3% percent on more shots.

The same logic that tells me Jason Kidd is a better three point shooter then Ray Allen.

[redzero]

Well since you're a Hornets fan I'm assuming you're obsessed with stats. So you'll probably claim things like Paul is a better shooter then Deron because of a higher fg% percent and 3% percent on more shots.

The same logic that tells me Jason Kidd is a better three point shooter then Ray Allen.

Oh, you mean that I'm obsessed with facts? If I say that Chris Paul is a better shooter than Deron Williams, and I back that up with fg%, how does that make me obsessed with facts?

One thing I know for sure is that better shooters shoot better than the one they are being compared to, so there.

[Purch]

So by facts you mean stats? Because I could use these same "facts" to say Chris Paul is a better shooter then Dirk Nowitzki but at the end of the day it doesn't make my point anymore valid.

Stats can be manipulated for anything.

I could make a damn good argument with stats that Kidd is a better shooter then Allen. Does it make my point any more valid?

No

If you watch Ray Allen play in a game you can clearly see he's a better three point shooter then Kidd.

It's the same With Deron, if you watch him in a game you can clearly see he's a better shooter then Paul.


Anyhow no need to argue the polls on many basketball forums including this one speak for themselves :lol

[LkrFan]

Deron >>> CP3. Stats are similar, however CP3 dominates the ball LeHype style. Deron plays in a system, yet still gets his assists. Deron rebounds better. Better post up game. Better defender (and no - going for steals all the time is not good defense).

Utah team apg - 26.7
NO team apg - 22.3

Deron apg - 10.5
CP3 apg - 10.7

If Deron dominated the ball like CP3 did, he would probably average between 11-13 apg which would easily lead the league. Instead, he is a mere 0.5 apg from doing it anyway and he doesn't play in a run and gun like Nash who led the league at 11.0 apg.

Deron is the best in the game. Period.

[Killakobe81]

Again? We know I prefer Dwilll but that is no knock on PAul ...he is great too ...

[Killakobe81]

So by facts you mean stats? Because I could use these same "facts" to say Chris Paul is a better shooter then Dirk Nowitzki but at the end of the day it doesn't make my point anymore valid.
Stats can be manipulated for anything.

I could make a damn good argument with stats that Kidd is a better shooter then Allen. Does it make my point any more valid?

No

If you watch Ray Allen play in a game you can clearly see he's a better three point shooter then Kidd.

It's the same With Deron, if you watch him in a game you can clearly see he's a better shooter then Paul.


Anyhow no need to argue the polls on many basketball forums including this one speak for themselves :lol

Agree had this debate here and other places past 2 seasons ...
Paul backers love stats ESPECially PER ...

They dont bother using their eyes ...

FTR ...I dont think Dwill is wayyy better just better.

[redzero]

Stats can be manipulated for anything.

How am I manipulating anything? I made a claim and I backed it up with evidence.


I could make a damn good argument with stats that Kidd is a better shooter then Allen. Does it make my point any more valid?

No, you cannot.


If you watch Ray Allen play in a game you can clearly see he's a better three point shooter then Kidd.

For his career, yes.


It's the same With Deron, if you watch him in a game you can clearly see he's a better shooter then Paul.


Which is completely bullshit and ambiguous. When someone like you has nothing to back up his claim, he'll say "Just watch the game." I have watched the game, obviously, and I know that Chris Paul is a better shooter. He's a better three-point shooter. He's a better at getting his own shot. He's a better shooter, period. You saying he isn't won't change the fact that he is.


Anyhow no need to argue the polls on many basketball forums including this one speak for themselves :lol

So, when you have no argument, you go with polls as your proof?

And since stats can be easily manipulated, manipulate them so they show that Williams is a better shooter than Paul.

Does anybody have any actual points, or am I wasting my time again?

[Darrin]

Williams all day, every day.

[fevertrees]

Right now WILLIAMS considering Paul's attitude and injury prone problems as of late...I still think Paul is better though

[La Mont]

either would be a fantastic signing for the Rockets, but I don't see no way we gonna get anyone. man, to the ground floor we only have a bag of average talents to build around, stuck with a vast mass of bad scraps.

[redzero]

Seriously, folks, does anybody have any reason to pick Williams outside of him being a better shooter (he isn't) or defender (he isn't)?

[Killakobe81]

% aside ...and really this doesnt matter that much to me bothe are great PG's ...

But does anyone here really watch Cp3 shoot and say he is a better SHOOTER than Dwill?

Getting his own shot and scoring I give Cp3 the nod ...

But shooting I dont see how you can OBJECTIVELY watch basketball and make that case ...

[redzero]

But shooting I dont see how you can OBJECTIVELY watch basketball and make that case ...

I don't understand your point. I watch Chris Paul make more shot attempts than Deron Williams.

Show me how Williams is a better shooter, for the third time.

[Xevious]

Right now I'd pick Williams. But people seem to forget that Paul was in the top 2 or 3 in MVP voting a couple years ago. Yes he needs to prove he can return to preinjury form, and his attitude is suspect. But he's far from the bum some people are making him out to be.

[Killakobe81]

Seriously, folks, does anybody have any reason to pick Williams outside of him being a better shooter (he isn't) or defender (he isn't)?

He is bigger. Don't let anyone lie to you SIZE matters.
He is a better shooter. I would not have my son watch PG tape of Cp3 for shooting ...score and playmaking yes....maybe.

He has taken his teams to the WCF and the Final four.
His game will age better ...(not sure but i think so)
you cant post him up
He can post up.

I have seen this head2head.
Also in The Olympics.
Also College. (i like UNC and have seen Paul since college)

Jazz could have chosen Paul if they wanted. Chose Dwill I think they know a bit about choosing PG's ...

[Killakobe81]

I don't understand your point. I watch Chris Paul make more shot attempts than Deron Williams.

Show me how Williams is a better shooter, for the third time.

% does not = shot attempts ...

[La Mont]

Right now WILLIAMS considering Paul's attitude and injury prone problems as of late...I still think Paul is better though

man ahh, u gotta act like you like him better pretendedly even if you don't frankly do. Deron remains with Jazz and will retire there, or will only move elsewhere in the very last years of his career in search for a championship ring (like Karl Malone). umm... Jazz players all have such loyalty to Jerry Sloan and anyone leaving Utah for money will always end up being considered a traitor (like Carlos Boozer).

mm... none of them will dare to betray their formidable godfather, especially the homegrown Jazz players like Derron.

[Red Hawk #21]

lol Paul being a better shooter than D-Will. Anyone who's seen him play can clearly see that he chooses his shots very carefully, that is why he has a higher FG% than Williams. Williams>Paul, not that Paul isn't great but D-Will is just better.

[La Mont]

Seriously, folks, does anybody have any reason to pick Williams outside of him being a better shooter (he isn't) or defender (he isn't)?

they're two sheer different type of players, each whereas has his own avails and flaws. ahhh man, deron does better teamwork and is more of a physical presence than CP, and he's a better shooter/defender too, but CP possesses better ball controlling and superior creativity which evens it a lot. it pretty much depends on what style of game your team plays in my opinion. That's like an Isiah/Stockton comparison in which you can hardly tell who's convincingly better than the other.

[redzero]

He is bigger. Don't let anyone lie to you SIZE matters.

Yet Paul plays better.


He is a better shooter. I would not have my son watch PG tape of Cp3 for shooting ...score and playmaking yes....maybe.Even though Paul does all those things better, you would rather show your son how to do it worse.


He has taken his teams to the WCF and the Final four. And? His teammates have been better and the Jazz lucked out by not having to face the Mavs in the second round. They lost to the same team the Hornets lost to, but in fewer games.


His game will age better ...(not sure but i think so) Which is pure speculation.


you cant post him up How do you know?


He can post up. And?


I have seen this head2head.For the billionth time, head-to-head is a bullshit argument. Period.


Also in The Olympics.Who cares about the Olympics? We're talking about the NBA.


Also College. (i like UNC and have seen Paul since college) We're talking about the NBA.


Jazz could have chosen Paul if they wanted. Chose Dwill I think they know a bit about choosing PG's ...Congratulations to the Jazz for choosing the worse point guard.

:rolleyes It's really tiresome having to refute the same nonsense over and over again.

This poll is obviously meaningless, because nobody can actually give me a legitimate reason as to why Williams is a better player.

And I'll just ignore those who say he is a better shooter, because they think that the better shooter doesn't actually have to shoot better.

[Killakobe81]

6 6 40.2 0.494 0.481 0.789 0.2 2.5 2.7 11.2 1.2 0.2 3.0 4.2 25.8 \

That is Almost 26pts. 11assists 48% 3's 49% FG against denver who destroyed Paul the year prior ...

[redzero]

:rollinat the people who still insist that Williams is the better shooter.

Who cares if Paul shoots better? If you actually watch them play, you'll see that Paul's shots are flukes and Williams actually makes more legit shots. Fact are overrated.

[Thompson]

I never said that Pargo was Kobe Bryant, just that y'all were better with him than you were the following year without him. Are you happy with the Collison trade?

[Killakobe81]

Yet Paul plays better. Says who? You? a HORNET fan?
Even though Paul does all those things better, you would rather show your son how to do it worse. Korver has better % than ray allen but whose form do you think my son watches? And? His teammates have been better and the Jazz lucked out by not having to face the Mavs in the second round. They lost to the same team the Hornets lost to, but in fewer games.
What about this year where they beat the Nuggs and year prior Paul was getting eviscerated ...
Which is pure speculation. I said that learn to read
How do you know?
And?
For the billionth time, head-to-head is a bullshit argument. Period.
Who cares about the Olympics? We're talking about the NBA.
We're talking about the NBA.

Congratulations to the Jazz for choosing the worse point guard.

:rolleyes It's really tiresome having to refute the same nonsense over and over again.

This poll is obviously meaningless, because nobody can actually give me a legitimate reason as to why Williams is a better player.

And I'll just ignore those who say he is a better shooter, because they think that the better shooter doesn't actually have to shoot better.

Poll is meaningless but you asked for reasons I gave you some just cuz you disagree doesnt make them invalid ...

[redzero]

I never said he was Kobe Bryant, just that y'all were better with him than you were the following year.

Whether or not that is true is irrelevant. Chris Paul wasn't threatened by Pargo. Why the hell would he be? He didn't drive the dude out.

[Killakobe81]

:rollinat the people who still insist that Williams is the better shooter.

Who cares if Paul shoots better? If you actually watch them play, you'll see that Paul's shots are flukes and Williams actually makes more legit shots. Fact are overrated.


Show me his stats against the Nuggets and Spurs and Dwill's stats IN THE PLAYOFFS vs those same teams ....

Since you love stats so much ...I dare you ...

[Purch]

Why is this thread still going? Everyone seems to be in agreement except for Hornets fans who obviously are gonna be biased.

[La Peace]

I have to personally go with Chris Paul, I just love his game. I appreciate D-Will's and hes an elite point guard for sure and has a case for being the best. But when Chris is healthy and has competent players around him he is really really amazing to watch, his dribble moves are just unparalleled and his passing ability is off the charts. Derron is elite in both of these areas in today's game and obviously has the size advantage but Chris' dribbling and passing to me is not only top notch in todays game but up there with some of the best I have ever seen and that gets him the nod to me personally. But obviously overall Derron supporters have a legit case.

[Thompson]

Whether or not that is true is irrelevant. Chris Paul wasn't threatened by Pargo. Why the hell would he be? He didn't drive the dude out.

Are you happy with the Collison trade? That's two guys backing up Chris Paul (and doing a good to very good job of it) that the Hornets got rid of for no apparent reason.

[redzero]

Poll is meaningless but you asked for reasons I gave you some just cuz you disagree doesnt make them invalid ...

The fact that your reasons are wrong makes them invalid.

According to you, having a better shooting form (allegedly) makes one a better shooter, not actually making more shots than another. If that wasn't what you were trying to say, then your statement is utterly pointless.

The Nuggets series is supposed to be some undeniable evidence, yet Paul had to carry the Hornets into the playoffs and faced an far superior team.

Boozer averaged over 20 points and ten rebounds against the Nuggets, Millsap played well, and the Nuggets were imploding.

What about Paul and Williams' career playoff averages? You want to fault Paul for "getting destroyed" by the Nuggets when his second best player was a worn out David West who had a bad back and bad ankle.

Reading the same bullshit gets boring after a while.


Show me his stats against the Nuggets and Spurs and Dwill's stats IN THE PLAYOFFS vs those same teams ....

Since you love stats so much ...I dare you ...

:wakeup Chris Paul average around 23 and 12 against the Spurs and Williams averaged 25 and 8. Paul lost in seven while Williams lost in five.

Again, you are resting your entire argument on a single playoff series.

And if Williams is so superior, what happened the very next series against the Lakers? He was swept and played noticeably worse.


Why is this thread still going? Everyone seems to be in agreement except for Hornets fans who obviously are gonna be biased.

Yeah, the stats must be biased as well. Who cares if Paul shoots better, passes better, scores more, rebounds more and has a far better PER? Williams is better because you say he is better, and the facts don't matter.

[Purch]

Yeah, the stats must be biased as well. Who cares if Paul shoots better, passes better, scores more, rebounds more and has a far better PER? Williams is better because you say he is better, and the facts don't matter.Nope facts matter. Most of us actually watch them play instead of just looking at Chris Paul's box scores :lol

You might want to try it some time.

I Heard watching a game can teach you alot more about a player then looking at Boxscore :downspin:

[redzero]

Are you happy with the Collison trade? That's two guys backing up Chris Paul (and doing a good to very good job of it) that the Hornets got rid of for no apparent reason.

What does it matter if I am happy or not? That's irrelevant to the topic at hand.

And have you seen Pargo play lately? He has been terrible, to say the least.

[redzero]

Nope facts matter. Most of us actually watch them play instead of just looking at Chris Paul's box scores :lol

Yeah, I must mentally block Paul out of my mind when I go to Hornets games and watch them on tv. I see every player on the court except Chris Paul.


You might want to try it some time.

I agree. I'll try to spot Chris Paul the next time I watch a Hornets game, because apparently, he is hard to spot.


I Heard watching a game can teach you alot more about a player then looking at Boxscore :downspin:

Yeah, I can watch Paul make more shots at a higher percentage than Williams if I watch the games. OH WAIT--that doesn't matter, because the better shooter shoots worse, according to you.

:lmao

I have no argument so I will keep saying "Watch them play" as if that somehow invalidates all the stats.

Hey guys! Brandon Roy is better than Kobe Bryant! Just watch them play and you will see.

Yao Ming is better than Dwight Howard. Just watch them play and don't pay attention to the stats.

[Chieflion]

Chris Paul is better. One injury-plagued season contorted the opinions of people and made Deron Williams look better.

[redzero]

I have one more question for the Williams supporters.

Since the entire backbone of their argument is that watching Williams play will show that he is better, please tell me what that would prove? If I thought that Paul was a better shooter, how would watching Williams shoot disprove my belief, hypothetically speaking?

[HarlemHeat37]

Obviously you have to go with Williams until Paul shows that he's still the same player post-injury, but when healthy, it's a toss-up, although I would prefer Paul..I'm not really going to argue if anybody wants to take Williams, it's close, but I would go with Paul..

Offensively, I take Paul..he's a slightly better passer, slightly better p&r overall player, the better spot-up shooter, better isolation scorer, better at taking advantage of mismatches..

Williams is a better post-up player and penetrator by a large margin, his main advantages over Paul as an offensive threat..he's a more versatile offensive threat than Paul, but this is also due to coaching..we have yet to see Paul play an off the ball role in any way, and we won't know if it's due to inability or due to lack of variety in coaching..I find Jerry Sloan to be overrated, but he's a much better coach than anybody Paul has had..

The Jazz run a lot of screen plays for Williams, maybe more than any other PG in the NBA(which he's very good at)..they run a lot of hand-off plays, a lot of cutting for him, a lot of transition opportunities..

New Orleans' offense has had very, very little versatility, which gives Paul more responsibility in running and creating his offense..


Defensively, Paul is a very poor individual defender, while Williams is average..Deron easily has the advantage when it comes to individual D, his size playing a huge factor..Paul is easily exploited in the post, opponents shot 53% from the field against him in the post this year, one of the highest marks in the NBA..he was also a very poor isolation defender and was very poor at making defensive rotations last season..

Williams undoubtedly has the advantage there..

PG defense is overrated though, it doesn't have much importance..so how much does Williams' advantage here matter?..Paul is definitely the better help defender, so I would consider that to be a more valuable trait at PG than individual D would be..

With that being said, Paul is obviously at a much larger risk of being exploited, especially in the post..

So I would take Paul by a slight margin, but I could see people taking Williams for his size..

[Killakobe81]

The fact that your reasons are wrong makes them invalid.

According to you, having a better shooting form (allegedly) makes one a better shooter, not actually making more shots than another. If that wasn't what you were trying to say, then your statement is utterly pointless.

The Nuggets series is supposed to be some undeniable evidence, yet Paul had to carry the Hornets into the playoffs and faced an far superior team.

EXCUSES

Boozer averaged over 20 points and ten rebounds against the Nuggets, Millsap played well, and the Nuggets were imploding.

What about Paul and Williams' career playoff averages? You want to fault Paul for "getting destroyed" by the Nuggets when his second best player was a worn out David West who had a bad back and bad ankle. More excuses.

Reading the same bullshit gets boring after a while.



:wakeup Chris Paul average around 23 and 12 against the Spurs and Williams averaged 25 and 8. Paul lost in seven while Williams lost in five.

How come the better shooter in your opinion shot worse in the playoffs the past 2 seasons? Than Dwill? Well the last 2 Paul actually made it.Again, you are resting your entire argument on a single playoff series. No I am not. You are so funny above you say Dwill lucked out in 2007 by missing the Mavs ...but Paul lucked out playing the Mavs in 2008 or he would STILL be a first round virgin. Yes he was AMAZING destroying an old JKidd ...

But when faced with any real defense his numbers look quite different. What were the shooting %'s for the "better" shooter in the series he lost against a better team. Compare them to Dwill ...
And if Williams is so superior, what happened the very next series against the Lakers? He was swept and played noticeably worse. Everyone has lost to the Lakers the past 2 years ...at least Dwill lost 2 the best and not that circus show in Denver ...


Yeah, the stats must be biased as well. Who cares if Paul shoots better, passes better, scores more, rebounds more and has a far better PER? Williams is better because you say he is better, and the facts don't matter.

And of course head2head is bullshit ... it doesnt suit your argument. SO PER matters but head 2 head does not? Right ...you can't have it BOTH ways ...

If you want to argue facts:

Better head 2 head
Better playoff success
Better college success

Coming off a better season ...

Last 2 years Dwill has been better ...

[Killakobe81]

Chris Paul is better. One injury-plagued season contorted the opinions of people and made Deron Williams look better.

Nope. been arguing this since ... 2008 ...

The injury just made me more comfortable, it's close but Dwill is better ...

[balli]

Two things:

I think Deron is a better, more fluid, stylish passer. (really his whole game is more stylish) but I gotta give Paul props for his Ast/TO ratio. That's one area where he excels. Deron gives it up too much trying to do crazy shit.

Secondly, Jerry Sloan, a guy who knows defense, tracks each Jazz player's defense according to deflections and some other weird in-house stats that generally don't get play. And along with Wes Matthews (the next Bruce Bowen), Deron led the Jazz last year in whatever metric the Jazz use to asses their individual players' defense. In addition, I was paying special attention all through the playoffs to Deron's defense and that dude is tenacious. He has another defensive gear that allows him to body people the fuck up and utterly destroy them. Two guards, hell even 3's included. Dude is an awesome defender.

[Killakobe81]

Funny some here love to talk about how Hakeem destroyed David in David's MVP year ...

But When fans bring up Dwill's head2head advantage over Paul it's excuse, excuse, excuse ...

[Chieflion]

Nope. been arguing this since ... 2008 ...

The injury just made me more comfortable, it's close but Dwill is better ...

Since 2008? Chris Paul was arguably the MVP of the 2008 season and best player in the NBA.

[Killakobe81]

Two things:

I think Deron is a better, more fluid, stylish passer. (really his whole game is more stylish) but I gotta give Paul props for his Ast/TO ratio. That's one area where he excels. Deron gives it up too much trying to do crazy shit.

Secondly, Jerry Sloan, a guy who knows defense, tracks each Jazz player's defense according to deflections and some other weird in-house stats that generally don't get play. And along with Wes Matthews (the next Bruce Bowen), Deron led the Jazz last year in whatever metric the Jazz use to asses their individual players' defense. In addition, I was paying special attention all through the playoffs to Deron's defense and that dude is tenacious. He has another defensive gear that allows him to body people the fuck up and utterly destroy them. Two guards, hell even 3's included. Dude is an awesome defender.

I have seen him do a credible job against Kobe ...3 years running ...
Can he stop Kobe? No. But Paul on Kobe that is 81 waiting to happen ...

I disagee with HH PG defense is important especialy when you switch a lot ...

[redzero]

Again, head-to-head is bullshit. The season is 82 games long. Why the fuck should the better player be decided by three to four games of the season? Do you know how fucking stupid that sounds?

[Killakobe81]

Since 2008? Chris Paul was arguably the MVP of the 2008 season and best player in the NBA.

But Dwill was eating his lunch ... head2head matters ...

Paul gets props for his run to the playoffs but the series gainst the Spurs the year before made me a dwill fan ...

I was in SA ...I saw it up close ...

[balli]

Funny some here love to talk about how Hakeem destroyed David in David's MVP year ...

But When fans bring up Dwill's head2head advantage over Paul it's excuse, excuse, excuse ...

What gets me about that is that in years when the Jazz have had near identical records as NOH, Hornet fan likes to say that the Jazz are a better team and that's why Deron manages to beat Paul.

But if their records are the same against everybody else, what's the difference when they play each other? Obviously, Deron owning Paul.

And their head to head stats against one another are pretty funny. I'm not going to go dig them up, but I know Deron has an advantage in most all stat columns. And it matters.

[Killakobe81]

Again, head-to-head is bullshit. The season is 82 games long. Why the fuck should the better player be decided by three to four games of the season? Do you know how fucking stupid that sounds?

Again, PER is bullshit. I will let a fucking computer tell me who is a better player ...How asinine DOES THAT Sound?

[Chieflion]

But Dwill was eating his lunch ... head2head matters ...

Paul gets props for his run to the playoffs but the series gainst the Spurs the year before made me a dwill fan ...

I was in SA ...I saw it up close ...

Is Yao Ming a better player than Dwight Howard because his head to head performance is better?

[balli]

Is Yao Ming a better player than Dwight Howard because his head to head performance is better?

Back when Yao wasn't broken and Howard was a pup? Yes.

[redzero]

Again, why does head-to-head matter? Over the eighty-two game season, Paul outperforms Williams. Why put all the weight on four games out of an entire season?

[Chieflion]

Back when Yao wasn't broken and Howard was a pup? Yes.

Still owned him in 2009, back when Dwight was, you know, DPOY.

[redzero]

Again, PER is bullshit. I will let a fucking computer tell me who is a better player ...How asinine DOES THAT Sound?

Is fg% bullshit? Is apg bullshit? Is rpg bullshit? Is to% bullshit? Are all the stats that show that Paul is superior (which are damn near ALL of them) bullshit?

[Killakobe81]

Is Yao Ming a better player than Dwight Howard because his head to head performance is better?

When he was healthy yes ...but thanks for proving my point.

Paul is copming off an injury and a historic playoff ass whipping ...on top of the head 2 head beatings but you and zero want to hop in the hot tub time machine when Paul was an MVP candidate?

I still thought Dwill was better then ...but gave Paul his props. But now? Dwill is better.

[Killakobe81]

Is fg% bullshit? Is apg bullshit? Is rpg bullshit? Is to% bullshit? Are all the stats that show that Paul is superior (which are damn near ALL of them) bullshit?

Is playoffs Stats and head to head bullshit?

[redzero]

Forget 2008. Paul outplayed Williams in 09, too. Hell, his stats are better this year, too, even though he was hurt for some of his games and played half the season. I don't have to hop in a hot tub time machine.

[Chieflion]

When he was healthy yes ...but thanks for proving my point.

Paul is copming off an injury and a historic playoff ass whipping ...on top of the head 2 head beatings but you and zero want to hop in the hot tub time machine when Paul was an MVP candidate?

I still thought Dwill was better then ...but gave Paul his props. But now? Dwill is better.
I give Chris Paul the benefit of the doubt. It is not as if this guy is 30 years old. He almost won MVP when he was 23 years old and still improving. He is entering his prime. If he recovers fully, he will still play like a MVP candidate.

LMAO Yao Ming better than Dwight in 2009.

[LkrFan]

Again, PER is bullshit. I will let a fucking computer tell me who is a better player ...How asinine DOES THAT Sound?
I think he is kin to Hollinger. :lol

[redzero]

Is playoffs Stats and head to head bullshit?

If you want to post both players' career playoff statistics, go right ahead.

And if you don't answer my question about head-to-head matches, shut the fuck up. Period. I'm done talking about head-to-head. You're just completely ignoring logic and reasoning just to suit your argument.

[balli]

Not to call TNT definitive or anything, but remember when TNT had Chris Paul in studio and both Charles and Kenny told him to his face that they thought Deron was a better PG. lol, that was priceless.

[redzero]

Not to call TNT definitive or anything, but remember when TNT had Chris Paul in studio and both Charles and Kenny told him to his face that they thought Deron was a better PG. lol, that was priceless.

Remember when Chris Paul outplayed Deron Williams throughout their entire NBA careers? lol that was priceless.

[BRHornet45]

Not to call TNT definitive or anything, but remember when TNT had Chris Paul in studio and both Charles and Kenny told him to his face that they thought Deron was a better PG. lol, that was priceless.

son that was on Charles Barkley and he changes his opinion every other day on everything.

[balli]

Remember when Chris Paul outplayed Deron Williams throughout their entire NBA careers?
no

[balli]

son that was on Charles Barkley and he changes his opinion every other day on everything.

I don't think it's very relevant to who's better. It's obvious who's better. It was hilarious. That's all.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Remember when Chris Paul outplayed Deron Williams throughout their entire NBA careers? lol that was priceless.

no, can't say I do...

[BRHornet45]

I don't think it's very relevant to who's better. It's obvious who's better. It was hilarious. That's all.

yea son actually it is ... Paul dominates Williams in nearly every single category, but some of you still like to cheer for the underdog. let me ask you this ... does it make YOU feel better about yourself by cheering for the underdog?

[redzero]

no, can't say I do...

19.3 points and 10 assists per game say otherwise.

[Killakobe81]

If you want to post both players' career playoff statistics, go right ahead.

And if you don't answer my question about head-to-head matches, shut the fuck up. Period. I'm done talking about head-to-head. You're just completely ignoring logic and reasoning just to suit your argument.

No. I asked you to look at:

Common playoff opponent analysis. They played 2 teams Spurs and Nuggets in successive years. And they paly the SAME position so I brought up head 2 head.

How is that not relevant?

If you compare Hakeem and David head 2 head.
KG and Duncan head 2 head.

Why is Paul exempt?
I brought up NBA playoff and college success 2 things that PG's ESPECIALLY COLLEGE ones have a great bearing on ...

Great PG's in NBA with at least 4 years experience:

Rondo title, 2 ECF
Billups title many Conference finals
Nash WCF 2 MVP's
Dwill WCF 2nd round twice
Paul no WCF's 1st round smashing, Choking 3-2 lead with HCA ...


But you want regular season stats and PER ...

[Killakobe81]

Except head 2 head playoff and college success ...I do think Paul was better in HS though ...

[21_Blessings]

Deron running away with the poll :lol

I'd take Paul by a nose hair. But you faggots need to seriously stop acting like it's not close. And Redzero you are fucking retarded if you think headtohead (read: matchups) don't matter. Matchups are the only thing that matters comes playoff time. Masturbating to John Hollinger's picture while browsing bref isn't going to win you one of these :lobt:

[redzero]

Common playoff opponent analysis. They played 2 teams Spurs and Nuggets in successive years.

Post their career playoff averages.


And they paly the SAME position so I brought up head 2 head.

How is that not relevant?

If you compare Hakeem and David head 2 head.
KG and Duncan head 2 head.

Why is Paul exempt?

Answer my question about head-to-head first.



Great PG's in NBA with at least 4 years experience:

Rondo title, 2 ECF
Billups title many Conference finals
Nash WCF 2 MVP's
Dwill WCF 2nd round twice
Paul no WCF's 1st round smashing, Choking 3-2 lead with HCA ...


But you want regular season stats and PER ...

Okay, I see how it is. Paul takes the defending champs to seven games but he chokes. Williams gets to the WCF and loses to the same team in five but doesn't choke.

Your logic is astounding. Also, if go right ahead and post the Williams' game five stats against the Spurs compared to Paul's game seven stats, if you want to talk about choking.

[redzero]

Deron running away with the poll :lol

I'd take Paul by a nose hair. But you faggots need to seriously stop acting like it's not close. And Redzero you are fucking retarded if you think headtohead (read: matchups) don't matter. Matchups are the only thing that matters comes playoff time. Masturbating to John Hollinger's picture while browsing bref isn't going to win you one of these :lobt:
Matchups don't mean shit if the Hornets and Jazz never face each other.

[balli]

does it make YOU feel better about yourself by cheering for the underdog?
I think according to most NBA coaches, players, analysts and the general public, you should be asking yourself that question.

[balli]

If a Deron Williams fan club breaks out in Boston, Doc Rivers just might join the group.

Well, he might after cooling off following his ejection from the Celtics' 110-97 loss in which Williams scored 22 points with 11 assists.

Earlier Monday, though, Boston's coach had nothing but praise for the Jazz's All-Star.

"I love him. He's terrific," Rivers said of Williams after a morning shootaround.

"You can't have a conversation about best point guard in the NBA (without mentioning him) — he has to be in it," Rivers continued. "He has to maybe be the first guy you talk about."
Rivers, a former NBA point guard himself, wasn't shy when it came to raving about Williams during his team's annual Utah visit.

"He does everything — he shoots the ball well, he makes great decisions, defends, he's a big guard that can post up," Rivers said in the morning. "I don't know what more you want in a point guard."
"He doesn't need the ball in his hands for 24 seconds," Rivers said. "But he can have the ball in his hands for 24 seconds, and that makes him special."

"He plays body positions as well as any guard in the league, 1, 2 or 3. Him and LeBron (James), they both do it," Rivers said. "If you get on the side of those guys, it's over, the play is over. Now you're just hoping he makes a bad decision or misses a shot, but he's getting what he wants."

"We want to pressure him," Rivers said, "but you're scared to turn him because if you turn him and he gets to the side of you then the play's over. He makes it difficult."

"I wish," the 6-foot-4 Rivers said, "I was that talented of a big point guard."

[DeadlyDynasty]

Post their career playoff averages.



Answer my question about head-to-head first.




Okay, I see how it is. Paul takes the defending champs to seven games but he chokes. Williams gets to the WCF and loses to the same team in five but doesn't choke.

Your logic is astounding. Also, if go right ahead and post the Williams' game five stats against the Spurs compared to Paul's game seven stats, if you want to talk about choking.

Except the Jazz were playing a fully healthy Spurs team w/o HCA while the Hornets were playing a gimpy Manu and had HCA (with 2-0 and 3-2 leads to boot). D-Will also played amazing in those WCF. The Hornets have one series win while the Jazz have 4. Wanna make the argument that D-Will had a better team? Sure, but that hurts your statistical argument severely. Put D-Will on a lackluster talent team and his stats will undoubtedly rise exponentially as well...

[redzero]

Except the Jazz were playing a fully healthy Spurs team w/o HCA while the Hornets were playing a gimpy Manu and had HCA (with 2-0 and 3-2 leads to boot).

Oh please. Manu was fine in that series.


D-Will also played amazing in those WCF.And Paul played amazing in the WCSF.


The Hornets have one series win while the Jazz have 4. Wanna make the argument that D-Will had a better team? Sure, but that hurts your statistical argument severely. Put D-Will on a lackluster talent team and his stats will undoubtedly rise exponentially as well...Except it doesn't. Williams already is a worse shooter and is more turnover prone. You expect me to believe that he'll be put up the same stats as Paul with the ball in his hands more? That doesn't work out that way. Trevor Ariza got the ball more and he took a nosedive from an efficiency point of view. Monta Ellis also became less efficient when he got the ball more.

Players can't be that efficient by simply having the ball more. It doesn't work like that.

[LkrFan]

Forget 2008. Paul outplayed Williams in 09, too. Hell, his stats are better this year, too, even though he was hurt for some of his games and played half the season. I don't have to hop in a hot tub time machine.Pau has never outplayed Deron. Not head to head and he never got the Hornets any further than Deron lead the Jazz. Deron can play in any system or free style offense that players like CP3 or Nash plays in and thrive. He is your classic throwback PG. Whereas I saw Chauncey Billups abuse CP3, he couldn't do that to Deron. Deron is a friggen beast. This coming from a Laker fan.

[redzero]

I like how Lakers fans say this shit and act like it's unusual. I've been to multiple Lakers forums and they all love Deron Williams. That's the norm for Lakers fans, so saying "This is coming from a Lakers fan" is pointless.

[LkrFan]

I like how Lakers fans say this shit and act like it's unusual. I've been to multiple Lakers forums and they all love Deron Williams. That's the norm for Lakers fans, so saying "This is coming from a Lakers fan" is pointless.

It's because it's true. Your boy averages a mere 0.2 more apg game than Deron. Yet he dominates the ball more than Deron ever does.

Utah is perennially in the top 5 in assists. Can't say that about the Hornets. You take away CP3 (by making him play defense against a bigger player like Chauncey), you can take out the Hornets. Same with LeHype. In other words you can game plan for players that dominate the ball.

You guys should have traded CP3 instead of Collison to get more pieces. That's just me, I guess.

[redzero]

Yeah, the Hornets should trade their franchise player because a rookie had a good season. Who cares about selling tickets? Who cares about winning now? If only they kept Collison, they'd be set for the future.

And 10 assists per game are more than 9 assists per game by one assist, not .2. Oh, you're talking about this season--the one in which Paul was injured for the majority and still managed to play better when in the few games he did play. Got you.

[Sisk]

IMO most people are choosing Williams with the fact that Paul was injured and could get hurt again in the back of their mind.

On the court, it's pretty damn even and each have their own advantages but at 100% health I'd probably give Paul the edge.

Off the court, I'd rather have Williams.

[Venti Quattro]

I've always liked Deron more even during the CP3 pre-injury time. And I will pick him as my point guard if I was held at gun point. And redzero is right. A good 90 percent of Lakers fans love Deron so much

[LkrFan]

Yeah, the Hornets should trade their franchise player because a rookie had a good season. Who cares about selling tickets? Who cares about winning now? If only they kept Collison, they'd be set for the future.

And 10 assists per game are more than 9 assists per game by one assist, not .2. Oh, you're talking about this season--the one in which Paul was injured for the majority and still managed to play better when in the few games he did play. Got you.

Per BSPN:

CP3 = 10.7 assists per game
Deron = 10.5 assists per game

LINK (http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/assists/sort/avgAssists/year/2010/seasontype/2)

You were saying? Now who gives a shit about franchise player if he is disgruntled. He wants to leave. I say get something for him now since y'all ain't winning jack shit for the next few years anyway.

[redzero]

Per BSPN:

CP3 = 10.7 assists per game
Deron = 10.5 assists per game

LINK (http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/assists/sort/avgAssists/year/2010/seasontype/2)

You were saying? Now who gives a shit about franchise player if he is disgruntled. He wants to leave. I say get something for him now since y'all ain't winning jack shit for the next few years anyway.

Read the second to last sentence of the post that you just quoted.

Derp.

[LkrFan]

Read the second to last sentence of the post that you just quoted.

Derp.Name calling eh? I just shot a hole in your bullshit ass argument, linked where I got my facts, and all you can do is call me names? :rollin. Just stick to the topic at hand internet tough guy. CP3 has more autonomy with the ball in his hand and still averages only 0.2 assists than DWill. DWill (or any PG with size) kicks his ass on the regular. Give me DWill over this nut-puncher any day. DWill is more durable as well and is tough as nails because he plays for Sloan. There is nothing that CP3 can do that DWill can't do better. Period.

[BRHornet45]

Name calling eh? I just shot a hole in your bullshit ass argument, linked where I got my facts, and all you can do is call me names? :rollin. Just stick to the topic at hand internet tough guy. CP3 has more autonomy with the ball in his hand and still averages only 0.2 assists than DWill. DWill (or any PG with size) kicks his ass on the regular. Give me DWill over this nut-puncher any day. DWill is more durable as well and is tough as nails because he plays for Sloan. There is nothing that CP3 can do that DWill can't do better. Period.

son WTF are you talking about? Paul averages over 1 more assist than Williams (not 0.2). where are you getting your ridiculous information from? your ass?

[LkrFan]

son WTF are you talking about? Paul averages over 1 more assist than Williams (not 0.2). where are you getting your ridiculous information from? your ass?

LINK (http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/assists/sort/avgAssists/year/2010/seasontype/2) <-- Click here, if you dare. :hat

[LkrFan]

I just looked it up. CP3 is a pathetic 3-11 against DWill. Including loosing the last 5 straight. :lmao

LINK (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player=paulch01&match=game&year_min=2006&year_max=2010&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=NOH&opp_id=UTA&is_playoffs=N&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts)

[redzero]

There is nothing that CP3 can do that DWill can't do better. Period.

Well, besides scoring, passing, shooting, rebounding, stealing and holding on to the ball, you're right.

:lol at you punching a hole in my argument. You think you got me even though I addressed this season in the post you quoted.

[redzero]

I just looked it up. CP3 is a pathetic 3-11 against DWill. Including loosing the last 5 straight. :lmao

LINK (http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&player=paulch01&match=game&year_min=2006&year_max=2010&age_min=0&age_max=99&team_id=NOH&opp_id=UTA&is_playoffs=N&game_num_min=0&game_num_max=99&game_month=&game_location=&game_result=&is_starter=&is_active=&is_hof=&pos=&c1stat=&c1comp=gt&c1val=&c2stat=&c2comp=gt&c2val=&c3stat=&c3comp=gt&c3val=&c4stat=&c4comp=gt&c4val=&order_by=pts)

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201001040UTA.html

What a retard! :rollin

[LkrFan]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201001040UTA.html

What a retard! :rollin
:lol - hey don't shoot the messenger! :p:

[redzero]

:lol - hey don't shoot the messenger! :p:

You're a pretty shitty messenger if you can't even get your information straight. The last time Paul and Williams met, Paul won. In fact, Paul stole one of Williams' passes and sealed the deal.

2aYuoULok4w

[LkrFan]

You're a pretty shitty messenger if you can't even get your information straight. The last time Paul and Williams met, Paul won. In fact, Paul stole one of Williams' passes and sealed the deal.

2aYuoULok4w

I may be a shitty messenger, but CP3 will be watching at least the 2nd round of the playoffs this year - just like me. That has to make you and CP3 feel pretty shitty. :toast

[Venti Quattro]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201001040UTA.html

What a retard! :rollin

cp3 5-15 and 9 ast :cry

deron 6-11 and 11 ast :cry

great fucking point guard :cry

[Killakobe81]

Post their career playoff averages.



1. Answer my question about head-to-head first.


I did. Apparently you can't read. How does head to head NOT matter whent hey play the same FREAKING position?
Okay, I see how it is. Paul takes the defending champs to seven games but he chokes. Williams gets to the WCF and loses to the same team in five but doesn't choke.

3-2 lead with game 7 at home is a choke ...many on here ALSO point out the Pargo thing ...but i dont believe that indicts Paul ...others do.

Your logic is astounding. Thank you :lol

Also, if go right ahead and post the Williams' game five stats against the Spurs compared to Paul's game seven stats, if you want to talk about choking.

I asked you to compare common opponent playoff stats and head to head stats. That's it. You have failed or unwilling to do so.

I'm not a stat junkie ... I admit it. And maybe that i swhy I feel the way I do.

I tend to weigh playoff success and head2head MORE than overall success BECAUSE as a competitor that is what matters. silly me!!!

Regular season success is IMPORTANT but playoff means much more ...you have better defense, slower tempo and more time for opponents to prepare.

Paul had a great series against the Mavs and a great first 2 games against the Spurs ...after that I have seen Paul lose 4 out of 5 aginst the spurs amd Nuggs and fail miserably on some nights in doing so ...

Dude has lost 8 of his last 10 playoff games ...

AND despite that late win against Utah is still WAYYYY behind head2 head ..

Great players are defined by playoff success if Paul is one (and i think he is) he needs to do better there and against Dwill to get the #1 spot

[redzero]

cp3 5-15 and 9 ast :cry

deron 6-11 and 11 ast :cry

great fucking point guard :cry

Oh, so we're looking at stats now? I guess stats only matter in 4 out of 82 games.

[Ashy Larry]

Williams

[picc84]

Chris Paul is the better player. I'd take Deron just because I like him more.

[21_Blessings]

Yeah, Chris Paul does act like a petulant child when he's on the court.

[redzero]

And Kobe doesn't act like a child, too? Be honest, Kobe cries foul after half of his shots.

[21_Blessings]

Please. Kobe deserves to bitch with the amount he gets screwed by the officials these days. When was the last time a player like Robin got 0-2 free throws in a playoff game? :lol

znAA4mLU0II

[Killakobe81]

no response to the best PG losing 8 of his last 10 playoff games ...

I'm guesin the same logic was used by morons that said TMAC was better than Kobe and amare is better than Duncan?

Amare has a great FG%, better scoring average a better mid-range jumper he is better? Yeah, right.

[Brazil]

CP3 is the better player so I'd take him

[Pelicans78]

This whole debate is about two guys who have put up stats but haven't really won anything.

D-Will - Bigger, higher vertical, better perimeter scorer, better shooter off the dribble, and better long-distance shooter

CP3 - Quicker, better ball-handler, passer, vision, FT shooter, more steals, and finishes better in the paint (higher FG% in the paint)

Defense is not a big difference. CP3 defends quicker guards better while D-Will defends bigger guards better.

[Killakobe81]

This whole debate is about two guys who have put up stats but haven't really won anything.

D-Will - Bigger, higher vertical, better perimeter scorer, better shooter off the dribble, and better long-distance shooter

CP3 - Quicker, better ball-handler, passer, vision, FT shooter, more steals, and finishes better in the paint (higher FG% in the paint)

Defense is not a big difference. CP3 defends quicker guards better while D-Will defends bigger guards better.

That is pretty fair. Most unbiased post on the paul side. If healthy i think they are 1A and 1B and i have no issue if 1B is Dwill ...

[Sisk]

cp3 5-15 and 9 ast :cry

deron 6-11 and 11 ast :cry

great fucking point guard :cry

:lmao

[BRHornet45]

2012... still Deron, now more than ever. Deron is straight-up nasty. CP3 is a flopping bitch. I'm glad he never went to the right LA.

I wonder if BRHornet's stance will change.

Chris Paul > Deron Williams

still absolutely no doubt about it

[redzero]

I don't know what Paul being a flopping bitch has to do with who the better point guard is.

[Pelicans78]

D-Will is just a overweight chucking POS now.

[Killakobe81]

Some interesting points. For now Im in the Paul camp. But to be honest, that is only being fair. I still prefer Dwill's game. But the reason I took Dwill in the first place ... was because of size, he led his team further he had the advantage head2head and Paul was coming off a major injury.

Now Dwill has been banged up and leading a bottom feeder so the advantage is now for Paul. Either way ... for me it always has been close. I just took umbrage with those that made it sound (like Simmons) that it was not even close ...

[redzero]

lol head-to-head

[cheguevara]

CP3 after his injury is a shell of himself

[Brazil]

CP3 is the better player so I'd take him

right bout dat cp3

[DPG21920]

What is wrong with Paul? 3 of his last 4 games 25% FG or less :wow

[Venti Quattro]

What is wrong with Paul? 3 of his last 4 games 25% FG or less :wow
:lol and people rate him higher than Deron "fat chucker" Williams

[DPG21920]

That's not normal for Paul and Will doesn't have a glowing FG