Chris Paul and Deron Williams: The FACTS

[BRHornet45]

sons even though I know SOME of you choose to simply turn the other cheek and ignore facts and stats, I decided to break it down a little easier for you anyways. I have to admit the "grassroots" type of movement on this ONE particular message board for Deron Williams is quite strong. 90% of it however is either based on pure ignorance and or one's personal dislike for Chris Paul. Regardless I have decided to make this post anyways. sons class is in session .....



Lesson #1 - Don't believe the he said, she said gibberish

Ignorant Argument #1 - "Deron Williams is so much bigger and a better defender than Chris Paul!" ... Sure Williams is bigger there is no doubt about that, but then how do you explain Paul being a MUCH better rebounder? Paul has also led the NBA in steals 3 different years and has made a reputation for himself as one of the best defensive point guards in the NBA. Paul has made both the all NBA defense 1st and 2nd teams while Williams has never even came close. But hey ... those lousy steals and defensive honors mean absolutely nothing right?? Deron didn't get any so they don't mean anything! LOL I'm more entertained by the fact that little ole 6'0 Chris Paul easily out rebounds the GIANT Deron Williams. please explain that one.

Ignorant Argument #2 - "Deron Williams is a much better shooter and scorer than Chris Paul" ... Really? how so? ... Paul has a better field goal percentage, free throw percentage, and over the last 2 seasons has had a much better 3pt percentage than Williams. Paul also scores more points while only averaging about 1 more shot attempt per game than Williams ... so he scores more points, has better shooting percentages, and only averages 1 more shot attempt per game than Williams.... but hey! Williams is so much bigger (3 inches taller) and ummm well damnit he is the best scorer ok!!! Until Williams can learn how to put up a season average of at least 20 points per game then no one should be talking about him being one of the league's best scorers.

Ignorant Argument #3 - "Deron Williams is better because the Jazz have accomplished more than the Hornets" ... The Utah Jazz have a very long history of always having stacked teams built for the playoffs. That organization has done an outstanding job of putting solid, All Star players together for at least the last 20 years. The Hornets on the other hand, well they once had Larry Johnson and Alonzo Mourning. Chris Paul came to New Orleans and his best scoring option on the team was David West (lol). In less than 3 years Paul helped turn West into an all star player and led the Hornets to a franchise record amount of wins in a season. Deron Williams on the other hand fit right into the classic Utah system and worked out for them just as well. This is not a knock to Williams, but imagine if Paul had the Jazz team to work with? Instead, he was stuck with David West and umm Peja? sons if we are going to judge individual players greatness by the success of their teams then I guess Derek Fisher should hands down be the best point guard in the NBA today then.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lesson #2 - Statistics don't lie like you do

sons its now time for some facts with stats. the stats that are in bold are obviously representing the player who is superior in that particular category.

Career Averages

Games Played: Paul 345, Williams 386

Minutes Per Game: Paul 37.3, Williams 35.3

Field Goal Percentage: Paul .473, Williams .467

3 Point Percentage: Paul .353, Williams .361

Free Throw Percentage: Paul .848, Williams .799

Rebounds Per Game: Paul 4.7, Williams 3.1

Assist Per Game: Paul 10.0, Williams 9.0

Steals Per Game: Paul 2.4, Williams 0.9

Turnovers Per Game: Paul 2.6, Williams 3.0


so sons out of those 9 major stat categories Chris Paul's numbers are better in 7 of them while Williams is better in 2. Williams has played in more games than Paul, however Paul plays in way more minutes than Williams does. Chris Paul shoots the ball better and more accurately, rebounds better, assist better, steals better, and turns the ball over less than Williams does. son these are the facts. Williams get a slight edge on Paul whenever it comes to the amount of games played, however people tend to forget that Williams also missed 14 games two years ago due to injuries as well. Also with Paul playing an average of 164 more minutes than Williams every season so far can take its toll.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lesson #3 - Awards and Honors do count

sons this is perhaps the most comical part of the entire argument. Many, not all, but many Williams supporters make comments such as ... "awards and honors are irrelevant! they don't count!" ... hmmm really? why do so many of you sound so damn bitter whenever saying things like that? Does it have to do with the fact that Deron has won next to nothing compared to Paul? or what about the fact that it took 5 years for Deron to FINALLY get selected by his peers and coaches to an all star team? Now sons I'm not saying that awards and honors are the ONLY way to judge a player, but you would be completely foolish to disregard them. I can also GUARANTEE you that the same exact fanboys of Williams who are saying that awards don't count would be preaching an entirely different story IF Williams actually did have some awards and honors to brag about, but since he doesn't ... they DON'T count!!! lol

Awards and Honors


Chris Paul

2003 McDonald's All American

2004-05 NCAA AP All-America (1st Team)

2005-06 NBA Rookie of the Year
2005-06 NBA All-Rookie (1st Team)
2005-06 NBA Leader in Steals

2007-08 NBA All Star (1)
2007-08 Runner up for NBA MVP
2007-08 All-NBA (1st Team)
2007-08 All-Defensive NBA (2nd Team)
2007-08 NBA Leader in Assist
2007-08 NBA Leader in Steals
2007-08 NBA Leader in Win Shares
2007-08 NBA Record of Most Consecutive Games with a Steal

2008-09 NBA All Star (2)
2008-09 All-NBA (2nd Team)
2008-09 All-Defensive NBA (1st Team)
2008-09 NBA Leader in Assist
2008-09 NBA Leader in Steals

2009-10 NBA All Star (3)


Deron Williams

2004-05 NCAA AP All-America (3rd Team)

2005-06 NBA All-Rookie (1st Team)

2007-08 All-NBA (2nd Team)

2009-10 NBA All Star (1)
2009-10 All-NBA (2nd Team)

[fevertrees]

lol can't wait to see all of the Williams supporters try to refute this

[Venti Quattro]

conference finals...

deron: 1
cp3: 0

[fevertrees]

conference finals...

deron: 1
cp3: 0

When did MAKING it to the conference finals get you a championship?

[milkshakeballa]

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/1f60388e1d12a093068c755cd09055185g.jpg



I'm not going to bother reading what you have to say BR. I don't care about the stats.

IMO Deron impacts the game mopre positively for his team than CP3 not to mention injuries.

Deron > Paul

IMO...and a lot of other people's IMO...tbh

[fevertrees]

I can understand people being iffy on Paul because of his injuries and loyalty to Lebron...but STATS DONT LIE

[BRHornet45]

conference finals...

deron: 1
cp3: 0

son I know its hard for you to read and comprehend, but please refer to "Ignorant Argument #3".

[milkshakeballa]

I can understand people being iffy on Paul because of his injuries and loyalty to Lebron...but STATS DONT LIE

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/image.php?u=12214&dateline=1275889034

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/image.php?u=12214&dateline=1275889034

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/image.php?u=12214&dateline=1275889034

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/image.php?u=12214&dateline=1275889034


http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/image.php?u=12214&dateline=1275889034

















































































































http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/image.php?u=12214&dateline=1275889034

[BRHornet45]

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/1f60388e1d12a093068c755cd09055185g.jpg



I'm not going to bother reading what you have to say BR. I don't care about the stats.

IMO Deron impacts the game mopre positively for his team than CP3 not to mention injuries.

Deron > Paul

IMO...and a lot of other people's IMO...tbh

LMAO ignorance is bliss ... just TURN THE OTHER CHEEK! your denial shows just how downright IGNORANT you are to the game of basketball.

Paul has one season of injuries, yet people always forget the injury filled season Williams had a couple years ago!

[redzero]

http://www.mediafire.com/imgbnc.php/1f60388e1d12a093068c755cd09055185g.jpg



I'm not going to bother reading what you have to say BR. I don't care about the stats.

IMO Deron impacts the game mopre positively for his team than CP3 not to mention injuries.

Deron > Paul

IMO...and a lot of other people's IMO...tbh

So the player who is less efficient, scores fewer points, dishes out fewer assists, gets fewer rebounds, and turns the ball over more impacts the game more positively than the player who is more efficient, who scores more points, who dishes out more assists, who gets more rebounds, who shoots better, and who turns the ball over less?

There literally is no point arguing the facts with people. Williams lucks out and faces the Warriors in the second round, and now he's a more accomplished NBA player than Chris Paul because he got to the Conference Finals.

[milkshakeballa]

LMAO ignorance is bliss ... just TURN THE OTHER CHEEK! your denial shows just how downright IGNORANT you are to the game of basketball.

Paul has one season of injuries, yet people always forget the injury filled season Williams had a couple years ago!


It's actually believed in NUMEROUS NBA Front Offices that CP3 is going to need microfracture surgery lol.

Just because I don't agree with you means I'm ignorant?

Is it really so fucking outrageous to pikc Deron > Paul to where you needed to start a thread and write a fucking essay about it?



















http://www.dailyhaggis.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/o_rly.jpg

[milkshakeballa]

So the player who is less efficient, scores fewer points, dishes out fewer assists, gets fewer rebounds, and turns the ball over more impacts the game more positively than the player who is more efficient, who scores more points, who dishes out more assists, who gets more rebounds, who shoots better, and who turns the ball over less?

There literally is no point arguing the facts with people. Williams lucks out and faces the Warriors in the second round, and now he's a more accomplished NBA player than Chris Paul because he got to the Conference Finals.


Good stats. Stats don't paint the whole picture. I'm not here saying Paul sucks.

I'm saying at the end of the day I'm taking Deron.

Is this so fucking outrageous?

[21_Blessings]

121-63

[Sisk]

msb's gifs/images are perfect tbh

[BRHornet45]

It's actually believed in NUMEROUS NBA Front Offices that CP3 is going to need microfracture surgery lol.

Just because I don't agree with you means I'm ignorant?

Is it really so fucking outrageous to pikc Deron > Paul to where you needed to start a thread and write a fucking essay about it?





son no its not outrageous to pick Williams over Paul and I have never once stated that. I do however think it is outrageous the way MOST of you act as if Williams is the greatest point guard since Magic and is FAR superior to Paul whenever the dude has never accomplished shit and is dominated by Paul in nearly every stat and award category. The problem with this message board is there are many bandwagon Laker fans who jump on and off anything trendy, then you have Spurs and Mav fans who absolutely hate Chris Paul and will vote against him simply out of spite.

I don't hate Williams by any means, but I hate the ignorance of most people who don't have a clue as to what they are talking about. In my opinion the top point guards in the NBA today are Paul, Nash, and Williams ... in that order.

[redzero]

121-63
0-4

[milkshakeballa]

http://i47.tinypic.com/2cp7v9h.jpg

[Venti Quattro]

son I know its hard for you to read and comprehend, but please refer to "Ignorant Argument #3".

son you wanted FACTS, i bring you FACTS

[DeadlyDynasty]

So the player who is less efficient, scores fewer points, dishes out fewer assists, gets fewer rebounds, and turns the ball over more impacts the game more positively than the player who is more efficient, who scores more points, who dishes out more assists, who gets more rebounds, who shoots better, and who turns the ball over less?

There literally is no point arguing the facts with people. Williams lucks out and faces the Warriors in the second round, and now he's a more accomplished NBA player than Chris Paul because he got to the Conference Finals.

well, that and Williams was never on the losing end of the worst playoff massacre ever witnessed...no, in fact he beat that very same Nuggets team minus the help of Okur and Kirilenko. But I guess that doesn't count for shit either...

[redzero]

well, that and Williams was never on the losing end of the worst playoff massacre ever witnessed...no, in fact he beat that very same Nuggets team minus the help of Okur and Kirilenko. But I guess that doesn't count for shit either...

It's okay to be swept but it's not okay to lose 121-63 and win one game.

[BRHornet45]

well, that and Williams was never on the losing end of the worst playoff massacre ever witnessed...no, in fact he beat that very same Nuggets team minus the help of Okur and Kirilenko. But I guess that doesn't count for shit either...

son Dirk choked to the most pathetic 8th seed Warriors ... you were defending Dirk in another thread and put him above Paul. how do you justify him choking away the #1 seed to a pathetic #8 seed like that? should I even mention the 2006 finals as well? ... or what about some of these other teams with star players who have bad playoff series? Rather you ONLY mention Paul and not the fact that Williams got swept out or any other star players fucking up.

[phxspurfan]

CP3 gets so many bullshit assists per game its funny. Deron all the way bc 9of the tricep tats

[DeadlyDynasty]

It's okay to be swept but it's not okay to lose 121-63 and win one game.

Being swept by the NBA Champion LA Lakers is a lot better than losing to a team of dysfunctional thugs by damn near 60 points. Is that even debatable?

Teams are swept out of the playoffs all the time, but the Hornets will be forever immortalized as the ultimate punchline (121-63) for that drubbing.


You guys are missing the point (no pun intended)....they are both great players. Any team would be happy to have either of them...but like milkshake said, is it that outrageous to prefer D-Will over Paul (or vice-versa)? They are both great, it's personal preference...and I prefer D-Will. He's bigger,more durable, and isn't a diva

[DeadlyDynasty]

son Dirk choked to the most pathetic 8th seed Warriors ... you were defending Dirk in another thread and put him above Paul. how do you justify him choking away the #1 seed to a pathetic #8 seed like that? should I even mention the 2006 finals as well? ... or what about some of these other teams with star players who have bad playoff series? Rather you ONLY mention Paul and not the fact that Williams got swept out or any other star players fucking up.

did I defend Dirk in that thread? maybe I did but I don't recall...

[BRHornet45]

CP3 gets so many bullshit assists per game its funny. Deron all the way bc 9of the tricep tats

Paul gets bullshit assist? son are you sure you want to stand by that??? ... you do realize that Williams is playing in UTAH right??? ... the team that is notoriously known for giving out the most ridiculous amount of assist in NBA history. I guarantee you at least 20% of Stockton's assist are complete bullshit and the same can be said for Williams.

[redzero]

Being swept by the NBA Champion LA Lakers is a lot better than losing to a team of dysfunctional thugs by damn near 60 points. Is that even debatable?

Teams are swept out of the playoffs all the time, but the Hornets will be forever immortalized as the ultimate punchline (121-63) for that drubbing.


You guys are missing the point (no pun intended)....they are both great players. Any team would be happy to have either of them...but like milkshake said, is it that outrageous to prefer D-Will over Paul (or vice-versa)? They are both great, it's personal preference...and I prefer D-Will. He's bigger,more durable, and isn't a diva

The 2009-2010 Nuggets were dysfunctional thugs. The 2008-2009 Nuggets had their act together for most of the playoffs.

Losing by 58 points is memorable, but it is not worse than being swept. Winning a game is better than winning no games.

[milkshakeballa]

Why is DOK viewing this?

[DeadlyDynasty]

The 2009-2010 Nuggets were dysfunctional thugs. The 2008-2009 Nuggets had their act together for most of the playoffs.


Losing by 58 points is memorable, but it is not worse than being swept. Winning a game is better than winning no games.

That's a fair point, but they were still a mentally weak and, frankly, stupid team...they gave two games away because they couldn't make a simple inbounds pass. Couple that with Kenyon martin's slew of idiotic fouls and J.R. Smith firing 35-ft 3-pointers routinely and it's safe to say they were teetering on the edge of sanity that year as well.

As for your second point, most of the time I would agree with you...but a 58-point loss is EPIC. Agree to disagree I guess:toast

[fevertrees]

Nothing justifies a 58 point BEATDOWN in the playoffs on home court...I don't care who you are. I can only imagine the hatefest on this place if Kobe or Lebron allowed it to happen lol

[DeadlyDynasty]

Nothing justifies a 58 point BEATDOWN in the playoffs on home court...I don't care who you are. I can only imagine the hatefest on this place if Kobe or Lebron allowed it to happen lol

exactly...they would be burned at the stake (in the media) for that...and rightfully so

[kamikazi_player]

I don't know why Hornet fans are still arguing. There were so many polls about these two point guards and usually it would be even. Since Paul was injured last year, of course more people are going to side D. Will. It would be best if you guys don't tire yourself out and just let people believe what they want to believe. I doubt they changed their opinions. This is not a knock on those who pick D. Will. They are the two best pg's today and it's understandable.

[fevertrees]

Since Paul is slowly working his heel turn on the city of New Orleans I don't give a shit about him now....he can go be a Lebron S. Pippen elsewhere.

[Venti Quattro]

It's okay to be swept but it's not okay to lose 121-63 and win one game.

Losing 121-63 and then going on to lose 4-1 in the series is not something to be any prouder than losing 4-0. Another fact.

[redzero]

Losing 121-63 and then going on to lose 4-1 in the series is not something to be any prouder than losing 4-0. Another fact.

Winning a game > not winning any games. Fact.

[Darrin]

sons even though I know SOME of you choose to simply turn the other cheek and ignore facts and stats, I decided to break it down a little easier for you anyways. I have to admit the "grassroots" type of movement on this ONE particular message board for Deron Williams is quite strong. 90% of it however is either based on pure ignorance and or one's personal dislike for Chris Paul. Regardless I have decided to make this post anyways. sons class is in session .....



Lesson #1 - Don't believe the he said, she said gibberish

Ignorant Argument #1 - "Deron Williams is so much bigger and a better defender than Chris Paul!" ... Sure Williams is bigger there is no doubt about that, but then how do you explain Paul being a MUCH better rebounder? Paul has also led the NBA in steals 3 different years and has made a reputation for himself as one of the best defensive point guards in the NBA. Paul has made both the all NBA defense 1st and 2nd teams while Williams has never even came close. But hey ... those lousy steals and defensive honors mean absolutely nothing right?? Deron didn't get any so they don't mean anything! LOL I'm more entertained by the fact that little ole 6'0 Chris Paul easily out rebounds the GIANT Deron Williams. please explain that one.

Ignorant Argument #2 - "Deron Williams is a much better shooter and scorer than Chris Paul" ... Really? how so? ... Paul has a better field goal percentage, free throw percentage, and over the last 2 seasons has had a much better 3pt percentage than Williams. Paul also scores more points while only averaging about 1 more shot attempt per game than Williams ... so he scores more points, has better shooting percentages, and only averages 1 more shot attempt per game than Williams.... but hey! Williams is so much bigger (3 inches taller) and ummm well damnit he is the best scorer ok!!! Until Williams can learn how to put up a season average of at least 20 points per game then no one should be talking about him being one of the league's best scorers.

Ignorant Argument #3 - "Deron Williams is better because the Jazz have accomplished more than the Hornets" ... The Utah Jazz have a very long history of always having stacked teams built for the playoffs. That organization has done an outstanding job of putting solid, All Star players together for at least the last 20 years. The Hornets on the other hand, well they once had Larry Johnson and Alonzo Mourning. Chris Paul came to New Orleans and his best scoring option on the team was David West (lol). In less than 3 years Paul helped turn West into an all star player and led the Hornets to a franchise record amount of wins in a season. Deron Williams on the other hand fit right into the classic Utah system and worked out for them just as well. This is not a knock to Williams, but imagine if Paul had the Jazz team to work with? Instead, he was stuck with David West and umm Peja? sons if we are going to judge individual players greatness by the success of their teams then I guess Derek Fisher should hands down be the best point guard in the NBA today then.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lesson #2 - Statistics don't lie like you do

sons its now time for some facts with stats. the stats that are in bold are obviously representing the player who is superior in that particular category.

Career Averages

Games Played: Paul 345, Williams 386

Minutes Per Game: Paul 37.3, Williams 35.3

Field Goal Percentage: Paul .473, Williams .467

3 Point Percentage: Paul .353, Williams .361

Free Throw Percentage: Paul .848, Williams .799

Rebounds Per Game: Paul 4.7, Williams 3.1

Assist Per Game: Paul 10.0, Williams 9.0

Steals Per Game: Paul 2.4, Williams 0.9

Turnovers Per Game: Paul 2.6, Williams 3.0


so sons out of those 9 major stat categories Chris Paul's numbers are better in 7 of them while Williams is better in 2. Williams has played in more games than Paul, however Paul plays in way more minutes than Williams does. Chris Paul shoots the ball better and more accurately, rebounds better, assist better, steals better, and turns the ball over less than Williams does. son these are the facts. Williams get a slight edge on Paul whenever it comes to the amount of games played, however people tend to forget that Williams also missed 14 games two years ago due to injuries as well. Also with Paul playing an average of 164 more minutes than Williams every season so far can take its toll.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Lesson #3 - Awards and Honors do count

sons this is perhaps the most comical part of the entire argument. Many, not all, but many Williams supporters make comments such as ... "awards and honors are irrelevant! they don't count!" ... hmmm really? why do so many of you sound so damn bitter whenever saying things like that? Does it have to do with the fact that Deron has won next to nothing compared to Paul? or what about the fact that it took 5 years for Deron to FINALLY get selected by his peers and coaches to an all star team? Now sons I'm not saying that awards and honors are the ONLY way to judge a player, but you would be completely foolish to disregard them. I can also GUARANTEE you that the same exact fanboys of Williams who are saying that awards don't count would be preaching an entirely different story IF Williams actually did have some awards and honors to brag about, but since he doesn't ... they DON'T count!!! lol

Awards and Honors


Chris Paul

2003 McDonald's All American

2004-05 NCAA AP All-America (1st Team)

2005-06 NBA Rookie of the Year
2005-06 NBA All-Rookie (1st Team)
2005-06 NBA Leader in Steals

2007-08 NBA All Star (1)
2007-08 Runner up for NBA MVP
2007-08 All-NBA (1st Team)
2007-08 All-Defensive NBA (2nd Team)
2007-08 NBA Leader in Assist
2007-08 NBA Leader in Steals
2007-08 NBA Leader in Win Shares
2007-08 NBA Record of Most Consecutive Games with a Steal

2008-09 NBA All Star (2)
2008-09 All-NBA (2nd Team)
2008-09 All-Defensive NBA (1st Team)
2008-09 NBA Leader in Assist
2008-09 NBA Leader in Steals

2009-10 NBA All Star (3)


Deron Williams

2004-05 NCAA AP All-America (3rd Team)

2005-06 NBA All-Rookie (1st Team)

2007-08 All-NBA (2nd Team)

2009-10 NBA All Star (1)
2009-10 All-NBA (2nd Team)

I have seen teams rattle Chris Paul. I've seen defenses that stop his penetration into the lane, create bad shots, and this has happened in the postseason.

And simply, there are things that a guard who stands five inches taller can do at shutting down the intitator of the offense, statistics be damned. Defenses can see over him and he has to press to keep the guy off-balance. The problem with pressing 100% of the time is that it involves too much gambling. It has been a problem with Paul, I've seen it with my own eyes.

And as you pointed out this is a close race. To lose 37 games last season and not make the postseason is losing a lot of ground in a comparison that changes by the year.

[Purch]

So you had to make a separate thread to state the exact same arguments you made in the Chris Paul vs Deron Williams as facts? What's in here that hasn't been said in the other thread?
Do you really need that much attention?:lol

[Killakobe81]

121-63

121-63 Fact.
Losing 8 of the last 10 playoff games. Fact.
Losing the head 2 head matchup. Fact.
Losing in commeon opponent analysis. Fact.
Better post-season success. Fact.
Better college success. Fact.

In the world of hollinger and the stuart scotts of the world ...Paul is not only better than Dwill but wayy better. False.

untrue and BR is right (underdog theory) that is why i started kinda rooting for Dwill ...his rookie year. i felt people went way to nutty for Paul ... then Dwill had a pretty great series (as a 2nd year guard) against IDK the championship team of 2007 the SA spurs ...fact.

The past 3 seasons i have watched him fight against the team that has made it to 2 straight finals ...fact.

I also watched Dwill hold his own, dominate or be close to Paul in pretty much every matchup head 2 head ... fact.

Let me say this Chris paul is great. and my original argument was that maybe Paul is better but it's close that was what i argued in 2008. even off of injury i think he is the 2nd best PG ...

Then in 2009 I watched paul get destroyed by the nuggs.
In 2010 I watched Dwill pound the nuggs
In 2010 Paul is hurt.

How agin over the PAST 2 years is Paul better ...please explain?

If you THINK paul will be better in 2011 great. But for at least 2 years Dwill has been better, FACT.

Finally steals and rebounds only as a predictor for defense is foolish.

Put him on kobe for a short stretch hell, put him on Dwill.

I woukd LOVE a hornets/Jazz series to end this. But when and if Dwill dominates:

Dwill has a better coach.
Dwill has AL jeff.
Paul's team was injured.
Paul was injured.
He has more steals or shot better FT's

Excuse, excuse, excuse.

[Killakobe81]

So the player who is less efficient, scores fewer points, dishes out fewer assists, gets fewer rebounds, and turns the ball over more impacts the game more positively than the player who is more efficient, who scores more points, who dishes out more assists, who gets more rebounds, who shoots better, and who turns the ball over less?

There literally is no point arguing the facts with people. Williams lucks out and faces the Warriors in the second round, and now he's a more accomplished NBA player than Chris Paul because he got to the Conference Finals.

now who is hating? i like Paul i just think he is a bit overrated ...
BUT you are hating on Dwill and i don't get why. and so angry too LOL

Personally i enjoy sports debates and smile as i type these ...
so some people think different than you ..
i at least gave you some reasons but you don't agree and that is cool I respect your opinion and Paul's game...

Don't worry if Paul does bust DWill's ass this season I will bump this.
Also why dont we start a thread for every head2head game?
...oh wait head2head doesn't matter ...
but my guess it will if Paul wins and or dominates ...

[SomeCallMeTim]

This debate comes down to one thing: injury.

Chris Paul had a serious knee injury. There appears to be some real doubt as to whether he'll be as awesome as he was a few seasons ago, plus of of course the fear that he's just a re-injury waiting to happen.

At his peak, yep, CP was easily the better player. But injuries changed all that. As of now, Williams is the better player until CP proves otherwise.

BTW I wouldn't bet against CP coming back strong, he seems like a pretty tough little dude.

[Killakobe81]

This debate comes down to one thing: injury.

Chris Paul had a serious knee injury. There appears to be some real doubt as to whether he'll be as awesome as he was a few seasons ago, plus of of course the fear that he's just a re-injury waiting to happen.

At his peak, yep, CP was easily the better player. But injuries changed all that. As of now, Williams is the better player until CP proves otherwise.

BTW I wouldn't bet against CP coming back strong, he seems like a pretty tough little dude.

Repect your post, but i thought that BEFORE Paul got hurt when he sucumbed to the spurs ...

Because of injury (excuse) he has not done anything to prove to me otherwise. But like i said when he takes his team further and outplays Dwill (IF) head 2head ...I will bump this and eat my crow ...

[Henke]

LOL BRHORNET

When it comes to Dirk,honors and awards do not matter and you never lose the chance to talk shit about him.
When it comes to CP3 they do count.

Do you want me to list Nowitzki's honors?
You can't have it both ways faggot.

As for the debate:
Lol at people who act like health isn't important.Unfortunately Paul has injury problems.You can't ''play'' with the seriousness of a knee injury.Period.

That said,when both are healthy,I'd give Paul the edge.It's close though.

[Red Hawk #21]

If the Hornets somehow found a way to get to the playoffs, I would love to see them go up against the Jazz. Then we'd get an entire series to see them go head to head. I bet you if they were to meet in the playoffs, Hornetfan would be making excuses before the series even started. Because they know deep down how that series would turn out.

[Chomag]

As I see it Williams is more mentally tougher the CP3. So if I was asked who I would go to war with it would most definitely be Williams.

[Killakobe81]

If the Hornets somehow found a way to get to the playoffs, I would love to see them go up against the Jazz. Then we'd get an entire series to see them go head to head. I bet you if they were to meet in the playoffs, Hornetfan would be making excuses before the series even started. Because they know deep down how that series would turn out.

TBH that is all I want.
And it's posible i could be wrong and Paul busts his ass and if he does unliks others on here I will eat crow and admit I was wrong ...

[Venti Quattro]

brah killakobe81 why can't you write in straight sentences and paragraphs? i hate reading your posts even though they have a lot of good insights on matters

[Killakobe81]

brah killakobe81 why can't you write in straight sentences and paragraphs? i hate reading your posts even though they have a lot of good insights on matters

sorry on phone sometimes ...so not always easy ...but I can take constructive criticism so I will work on it.

How is this?
I will work on trying to type better and use pargraphs when posting in the NBA forum. I think chris paul is great, but Dwill slightly better. I think Lebron is one of the greatest players I have ever seen but can't call him the best until he rings (multiple). I also think Karl malone is great but duncan is the greatest Power forward.

TBH a lot of time I have to jump in and off this site. I don't always have the time to edit and review. But although this is just for fun, I plan to organize my thoughts better. I normally instruct people to do the same.

Thanks for the fedback.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Interesting. Both players would be wonderful to have on your team. In Paul's favor, at least he was seriously in the MVP discussion in 2008.

Bottom line is, until their careers go deeper and are better defined, it's close to "Pick 'em"

[Pelicans78]

This is from a repeat post in a previous thread.

This whole debate is about two guys who have put up stats but haven't really won anything.

D-Will - Bigger, higher vertical, better perimeter scorer, better shooter off the dribble, and better long-distance shooter

CP3 - Quicker, better ball-handler, passer, vision, FT shooter, more steals, and finishes better in the paint (higher FG% in the paint)

Defense is not a big difference. CP3 defends quicker guards better while D-Will defends bigger guards better.

[phxspurfan]

Paul gets bullshit assist? son are you sure you want to stand by that??? ... you do realize that Williams is playing in UTAH right??? ... the team that is notoriously known for giving out the most ridiculous amount of assist in NBA history. I guarantee you at least 20% of Stockton's assist are complete bullshit and the same can be said for Williams.

I didn't say anything about D-Will...yeah I know Utah was famous for inflating Stockton's #s. But you can't deny that CP3 gets tons of BS assists when the guy dribbles before he makes a shot after CP3's pass.


And D-Will's got the ink on his triceps, plus it's Latin right? So he's clearly better, at least in the bball IQ game.

[phxspurfan]

I have seen teams rattle Chris Paul. I've seen defenses that stop his penetration into the lane, create bad shots, and this has happened in the postseason.

And simply, there are things that a guard who stands five inches taller can do at shutting down the intitator of the offense, statistics be damned. Defenses can see over him and he has to press to keep the guy off-balance. The problem with pressing 100% of the time is that it involves too much gambling. It has been a problem with Paul, I've seen it with my own eyes.

And as you pointed out this is a close race. To lose 37 games last season and not make the postseason is losing a lot of ground in a comparison that changes by the year.

This too. Bowen would get destroyed by D-Will b/c of his sheer power. He's like a mini-LeBron, like the guy on the Kings is now. CP3, if you can get a. in his head, or b. keep up with his drives to the basket and get a hand up over him, can be stopped.

[cesare borgia]

1. Chris Paul
2. Steve Nash
3. Deron Williams

[picc84]

Bowen got destroyed by CP too. Thats what made the decision to switch him to Peja easier.

I actually think Williams is a player Bowen could guard. Better than Paul, anyway.

[BRHornet45]

I have seen teams rattle Chris Paul. I've seen defenses that stop his penetration into the lane, create bad shots, and this has happened in the postseason.

And simply, there are things that a guard who stands five inches taller can do at shutting down the intitator of the offense, statistics be damned. Defenses can see over him and he has to press to keep the guy off-balance. The problem with pressing 100% of the time is that it involves too much gambling. It has been a problem with Paul, I've seen it with my own eyes.

And as you pointed out this is a close race. To lose 37 games last season and not make the postseason is losing a lot of ground in a comparison that changes by the year.

Son again thanks for proving my point that most of you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and go by what others tell you. First of all please at least get your facts right. Deron is 6'3 and Paul is 6'0. I don't know what type of math you are using, but that is only a 3inch difference not 5 like you said. Also you say there are things a taller player can do that a shorter player can't.. ok then why isn't Deron doing it better than Paul? CP out rebounds Deron by far and is a much better scorer at creating his own shots. Your argument is not only completely inaccurate, but completely ignorant as well. Look I don't care who you prefer all I ask is that you at least educate yourself so that you will have some factual iinformation to argue for Deron and 90% of his supporters don't do that. (Mainly because whenever they actually look at the facts comparing him to Paul they quickly realize they don't have a leg to stand on other than their bitter personal opinion)

[Killakobe81]

Son again thanks for proving my point that most of you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about and go by what others tell you. First of all please at least get your facts right. Deron is 6'3 and Paul is 6'0. I don't know what type of math you are using, but that is only a 3inch difference not 5 like you said. Also you say there are things a taller player can do that a shorter player can't.. ok then why isn't Deron doing it better than Paul? CP out rebounds Deron by far and is a much better scorer at creating his own shots. Your argument is not only completely inaccurate, but completely ignorant as well. Look I don't care who you prefer all I ask is that you at least educate yourself so that you will have some factual iinformation to argue for Deron and 90% of his supporters don't do that. (Mainly because whenever they actually look at the facts comparing him to Paul they quickly realize they don't have a leg to stand on other than their bitter personal opinion)

Paul is not 6 feet but nice try if he is ...than Im 6 ft 2

[BRHornet45]

Paul is not 6 feet but nice try if he is ...than Im 6 ft 2

lol so son not only do the NBA awards and honors not count, but they also lie about height! you people are a trip ... I have personally met Chris on 3 different occasions and can assure you that he is 6'0. lol you people ... what's next? "ummm his points per game average in 08-09 was wrong! the NBA added points to his stats! Deron's were ALL EARNED!"