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milkshakeballa
08-14-2010, 05:26 PM
Harlem/DPG/ChrisRichards/Kobe Haters

I want our HONEST thoughts. Just your HONEST thoughts on this article. I know some of you guys are trolls and not. But I'm asking for your honest opinion. You can PM it to me and I will keep it between us!



Sports Illustrated - Chris Ballard

After scoring 25 of his 27 points in the second half of Game 1 of the Western Conference Finals last week against the San Antonio Spurs, Los Angeles Lakers star Kobe Bryant said of his strong finishing kick, "I can get off" (that is, score at will) "at any time. In the second half I did that." Granted, Bryant was just being honest, but tact would dictate that he let others say such things about him. As you may have noticed, though, Bryant isn't big on tact. As teammate Luke Walton dryly puts it, "Kobe does not lack for confidence."

Just as Bryant's bravado irks some, or many — it also makes him riveting to watch when he does get off: Like the man himself, the manner in which he bears down is never subtle. Spurs forward Bruce Bowen, Bryant's foil these many years, says there's no indicator of an impending scoring binge, joking that you can't tell "by the way he chews his gum or something."

But that's not true at all. Rather, his eruptions are almost comically predictable. Former teammate Devean George, now with the Dallas Mavericks, speaks of "that Kobe face where he starts looking around all pissed off." His coach at Lower Merion High, Gregg Downer, says he can recognize this expression even on TV. In these moments Bryant's youthful impudence, which flummoxed Del Harris when he was L.A.'s coach during Bryant's first two years in the league, resurfaces. "Kobe would put it on the floor and start going between his legs, back and forth, back and forth," says Harris, "and only then would he decide what to do."

So there was Kobe on May 21, with the Lakers down 20 in the third quarter and the L.A. crowd starting to boo, whipping the ball between his legs and shaking his noggin at Bowen like some enormous, ticked-off bobblehead. What followed seemed, in retrospect, inevitable: the deep jumpers, the twisting drives, the scowls and, finally, a cold-blooded Bryant pull-up in the lane with 23.9 seconds left to cap the 89--85 comeback win. Watching him manhandle the game, you could feel the Western Conference series tilting westward, and indeed the Lakers were up 2 games to 1.

(Jordan-esque bonus: Video Highlight of that WCF Game (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FT9cjge3ZL0) - this maybe a longer version (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdpn-ABL51I))

Call it what you will: killer instinct, competitive fire, hatred of losing or, as Boston Celtics reserve guard Sam Cassell once said, "that Jordan thing." It's what has spurred Bryant all these years, what the Lakers will rely on if they are to win their first post-Shaq championship, what separates Kobe from the rest of the NBA. In 2002 Bryant said, "There's only two real killers in this league," meaning himself and Michael Jordan. Well, now there is only one. And it ain't Fabricio Oberto.

Because Kobe is Kobe, however, he cannot (or will not) soften his edge, the way Jordan did with his buddy-buddy NBA friendships, his who-would-have-thunk smirk or his endorsa-riffic smile. With Bryant, it manifests itself during practice, during games, during summer workouts, during conversation. Even in his dreams he is probably swatting a Connie Hawkins finger roll into the third row. "He can't turn it off, even if he tried," says George, one of a handful of NBA players relatively close to Bryant. And for that Kobe has often been pilloried. But is this really fair? "Kobe wants it so badly that he rubs an awful lot of people the wrong way," says Lakers consultant Tex Winter, the guru of the triangle offense, who has known Bryant since 1999. "But they're not willing to understand what's inside the guy."

Ok then, let's try to understand. Starting at the beginning, moment by basketball moment.

It is 1989, and Bryant is 11 years old and living in Italy, where his father, Joe, is playing professional basketball. One day Kobe bugs Brian Shaw, a Boston Celtics first-round pick playing in Rome because of a contract dispute, to go one-on-one. Eventually Shaw agrees to a game of H-O-R-S-E. "To this day Kobe claims he beat me," says Shaw, now a Lakers assistant. "I'm like, Right, [I'm really trying to beat] an 11-year-old kid. But he's serious." Even back then Shaw noticed something different. "His dad was a good player, but he was the opposite of Kobe, real laid-back," says Shaw. "Kobe was out there challenging grown men to play one-on-one, and he really thought he could win."

It's early 1992, and Bryant is an eighth-grader in the suburbs of Philadelphia, skinny as an unfurled paper clip. He is playing against the Lower Merion varsity in an informal scrimmage. The older teens are taken aback. "Here's this kid, and he has no fear of us at all," says Doug Young, then a sophomore. "He's throwing elbows, setting hard screens." Bryant was not the best player on the floor that day—not yet—but he was close.

It's 1995, and Bryant is the senior leader of the Lower Merion team, obsessed with winning a state championship. He comes to the gym at 5 a.m. to work out before school, stays until 7 p.m. afterward. It's all part of the plan. When the Aces lost in the playoffs the previous spring, Bryant stood in the locker room, interrupting the seniors as they hugged each other, and all but guaranteed a title, adding, "The work starts now." (Bryant remains so amped about his alma mater that when he taped a video message for the team a few years ago, it contained few of the usual platitudes and instead had Bryant reeling off a bunch of expletives and exhorting the boys to "take care of fu***** business!")

During the Kobe era at Lower Merion no moment was inconsequential, no drill unworthy of ultimate concentration. In one practice during his senior year, "just a random Tuesday," as coach Downer recalls, Bryant was engaged in a three-on-three drill in a game to 10. One of his teammates was Rob Schwartz, a 5'7" junior benchwarmer. With the game tied at nine, Schwartz had an opening, drove to the basket and missed, allowing the other side to score and win. "Now, most kids go to the water fountain and move on," says Downer. Not Bryant. He chased Schwartz into the hallway and berated him. It didn't stop there, either. "Ever get the feeling someone is staring at you—you don't have to look at them, but you know it?" says Schwartz. "I felt his eyes on me for the next 20 minutes. It was like, by losing that drill, I'd lost us the state championship."

Bryant had already begun to coax teammates into staying late or coming in at odd hours so he could hone his skills. "We'd play games of one-on-one to 100," says Schwartz. "Sometimes he'd score 80 points before I got one basket. I think the best I ever did was to lose 100--12." Imagine the focus required to score 80 freakin' baskets before your opponent scores one. And Bryant's probably still pissed that Schwartz broke double digits.

It's 1996, and the Lakers call in Bryant, fresh off his senior prom—he took pop singer Brandy, you might recall—for a predraft workout at the Inglewood High gym. In attendance are G.M. Jerry West and two members of L.A.'s media relations staff, John Black and Raymond Ridder. Bryant is to play one-on-one against Michael Cooper, the former Lakers guard and one of the premier defenders in NBA history. Cooper is 40 years old but still in great shape, wiry and long and stronger than the teenaged Bryant. The game is not even close. "It was like Cooper was mesmerized by him," says Ridder, now the Golden State Warriors' executive director of media relations. After 10 minutes West stands up. "That's it, I've seen enough," Ridder remembers West saying. "He's better than anyone we've got on the team right now. Let's go."

It would be a pattern: Bryant bearing down on players he once idolized. At Magic Johnson's summer charity game in 1998 he went after Orlando Magic star Penny Hardaway so hard—in a charity game—that Hardaway spent the fall telling people he couldn't wait to play the Lakers so he could go back at Bryant. And, more famously, Kobe attempted to go one-on-one against Jordan in the '98 All-Star Game, waving off a screen from Karl Malone. Take your pick-and-rolling butt out of here; I've got Jordan iso'd! That one didn't go over so well with the Mailman. "When young guys tell me to get out of the way," Malone said at the time, "that's a game I don't need to be in."

In Bryant's mind, however, no one is unbeatable. As a rookie with the Lakers, despite his coming straight out of high school, he approached Harris. "He said, 'Coach, if you just give me the ball and clear out, I can beat anybody in this league,'" recalls Harris. When that pitch didn't work, the 6'6" Bryant returned. "Then he'd say, 'Coach, I can post up anybody who's guarding me. If you just get me in there and clear it out, I can post up anybody.'" Harris chuckles. "I said, 'Kobe, I know you can, but right now you can't do it at a high enough rate for the team we have, and I'm not going to tell Shaquille O'Neal to get out of the way so you can do this.' Kobe didn't like it. He understood it, but in his heart he didn't accept it."

It is 2000, and Bryant is an All-Star and franchise player. Still, after guard Isaiah Rider signs as a free agent, Bryant repeatedly forces him to play one-on-one after practice—Bryant wins, of course—to reinforce his alpha alpha male status. When six-time All-Star guard Mitch Richmond arrives the next year, he gets the same. "He was the man, and he wanted us to know it," says Richmond. "He was never mean or personal about it, it's just how he was."

Not that Bryant never loses, but beat him at your own risk. Decline a rematch and ... well, that's not an option. "If you scored on him in practice or did something to embarrass him, he would just keep on challenging you and challenging you until you stayed after and played him so he could put his will on you and dominate you," says Shaw, Bryant's teammate from 1999 to 2003. This included not allowing players to leave the court. Literally. "He'd stand in our way and say, 'Nah, nah, we're gonna play. I want you to do that [move] again,'" Shaw says. "And you might be tired and say, 'Nah, I did it in practice.' But he was just relentless and persistent until finally you'd go play, and he'd go at you."

And just as he once did with Rob Schwartz, Bryant keeps NBA teammates after practice as guinea pigs. He unveils a spin move or a crossover or something else he has picked up watching tape and does it over and over and over. "The crazy thing about it is, he has the ability to put new elements in his game overnight," says George, a Laker from 1999 to 2006 and a frequent target of Kobe's requests. "He might say, 'Stay after and guard this move. Let me try it on you,' and he'll do it the next day in the game." George pauses to let this sink in. "Most of us, we'll try it alone, then we'll try it in practice, then in a scrimmage, and only then will we bring it out for a game. He'd do it the next day—and it would work."

It's 2003, and Bryant is getting worked up in an interview while talking about a variation on a move: a jab step-and-pause, where you sink deep, hesitate to let the defender relax and, instead of bringing the jab foot back, push off it. Soon enough, Bryant is out of his chair and using the reporter as a defender on the carpeted floor. Then he has the reporter trying the move. Some people are Star Wars nerds; Bryant is a basketball nerd. "I think Kobe's actually a little bit embarrassed by his love of basketball," says Downer. "People called him a loner, but it's just that basketball is all he wants to focus on. I think he's part of a dying breed that loves the game that way."

That's why Bryant gets so excited to meet kindred souls. Asked last week about Spurs coach Gregg Popovich, Bryant's face lit up as he remembered the time he played for Pop. "I was really hoping he'd run us through one of those rigorous practices he does," said Bryant, who got his wish. By the way, Kobe was talking about practice for the '05 All-Star Game.

It's now 2008, the Western Conference Finals. Bryant is finally where he wants to be: an MVP playing on his team, no behemoth Hall of Famer to get in the way of post-ups, within reach of a title. He is also, by almost all accounts, the best player in the league. "It's not even close," says one Western Conference scout. "The difference between him and LeBron [James] is like [the one between] a Maserati and a Volvo."

The scout has other things to say about Bryant. For example, on his weaknesses: "Um, let me think ... [long pause] ... No, I don't think he has any." On his athleticism: "There are probably 10 [with more] in the league"—he names Andre Iguodala, Josh Smith, Dwight Howard as examples—"but no one uses his as well as Kobe. Just watch his footwork sometime." And on his focus: "There's a difference between loving basketball and liking basketball. There are only about 30 guys in the league who love it, who play year-round. Allen Iverson loves to play when the lights come on. Kobe loves doing this sh** BEFORE the lights come on."

This thing, this freakish compulsion, may be the hardest element of the game to quantify. There are no plus-minus stats to measure a player's ruthlessness, his desire to beat his opponent so badly he'll need therapy to recover. One thing's for sure: You can't teach it. If so, Eddy Curry would be All-NBA and Derrick Coleman would be getting ready for his induction ceremony in Springfield, Mass. But people know it when they see it. G.M.'s, coaches and scouts cite only a few others who have a similar drive—Tim Duncan, Kevin Garnett, Manu Ginóbili, Steve Nash, Chris Paul and Deron Williams—though they make clear that none of those stars are in Kobe's league. (In an Sports Illustrated poll earlier this season Bryant was a runaway winner as the opponent players feared most, at 35%.)

Even some of the great ones lacked it. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar says that when he was young, rather than challenging everyone as Kobe does, he "just wanted peace." "I think it's a quirk of personality," says Abdul-Jabbar. "Some of us are like Napoleon, and some are Walter Mitty."

Idan Ravin, a personal trainer who works with Paul, Carmelo Anthony, Gilbert Arenas and Elton Brand and is known by some in the league as "the hoops whisperer" for his effect on players, has even broken killer instinct down into components: love of the game, ambition, obsessive-compulsive behavior, arrogance/confidence, selfishness and nonculpability/guiltlessness. He sees them all in Bryant.

"If he's a ruthless S.O.B., I kind of respect that," says Ravin. "Why should he be passing up opportunities? Why pass it to a guy who doesn't work as hard, who doesn't want it like you do?"

Even now, every little challenge matters to Bryant. Here he is at the end of a practice last week. Each Laker has to take a free throw. Everybody hits his except Bryant, who rims one out. The only shooter left is Derek Fisher, who shot 88.3% from the line this season. Bryant stands to the side of the basket, fidgeting. As Fisher's shot arcs toward the rim, Bryant suddenly takes two quick steps and leaps to goaltend the attempt. "Of course," forward Lamar Odom says later, "he couldn't be the only one to miss."

So you see, this is Kobe, all of this. Sometimes childish, sometimes regal, sometimes stubborn, but always relentless. This is a guy who, according to Nike spokesperson KeJuan Wilkins, had the company shave a couple of millimeters off the bottom of his signature shoe because "in his mind that gave him a hundredth of a second better reaction time." A guy who has played the last three months with a torn ligament in the pinkie of his shooting hand. A guy who, says teammate Coby Karl, considers himself "an expert at fouling without getting called for it." (Watch how Bryant uses the back of his hand, not the front, to push off on defenders and a closed-fist forearm to exert leverage.) A guy who says of being guarded by the physical Bowen, "It'll be fun"—and actually means it. A guy who, no matter what he does, will never get the chance to play the one game he'd die for: Bryant versus Jordan, each in his prime. "There'd be blood on the floor by the end," says Winter, who has coached them both.

This is Kobe Bryant, age 29, in pursuit of another NBA title. Even if it's hard for us to understand him, perhaps it's time that we appreciate him.



It's an older article. But thoughts?

milkshakeballa
08-14-2010, 05:31 PM
Shit movet his to General NBA. I was going to post

m33p0
08-14-2010, 05:34 PM
it's something you'd expect from guys who wants to win. Michael Jordan has that. even the stoic Duncan has that.

(only got as far as the 5th paragraph. big walls of text make my head hurt.)

pgardn
08-14-2010, 07:25 PM
The article states that Jordan was buddy buddy? WTF

Jordan was as cold as they come. Jordan was buddy buddy because he smiled and sometimes joked around when killing the other team? Really bad comparison there. Also Jordan would make people hate him in practice. He made people quit. So this is also very inaccurate.
Kobe has never done any stab in the hearts like Jordan has in 7th games of series. In fact, I dont really ever remember Kobe having a game winning shot in the 7th game or really spectacular 7th games like Jordan. It seemed like every year with Jordan.

Other than that this is what one would expect from the best basketball player in the NBA. He can go off because he is that much better. ANd unlike Lebron, Kobe does not completely give up on his jumper and just put his head down and drive to the basket when things are not going well.

Kobe's major weakness compared with some of the best players, like Jordan, is his hands are not as big so when driving he cant pull the same type of shots. If Kobe's hands were bigger, he might have a chance at being a Jordan copy.

silverblk mystix
08-14-2010, 09:49 PM
wgaf- fuck that rapist and put that shit in the nba kobe threat....

and get his cock out of your mouth already...

Mark in Austin
08-14-2010, 10:33 PM
You have a lot of nerve posting this on a Spurs board. What the fuck do you want to hear?

He's better at basketball than any Spur. There. Happy?

Marcus Bryant
08-14-2010, 10:35 PM
http://www.mugshots.com/IMAGES/P__PP__bryantkobe.jpg

Silver&Black
08-14-2010, 11:02 PM
http://www.mugshots.com/IMAGES/P__PP__bryantkobe.jpg


You can always count on a rape charge being brought up when Spurs fans talk about Kobe....:flag:

Obstructed_View
08-14-2010, 11:14 PM
Kobe's an amazing player, a hall of famer for sure, would certainly be top 50 all time if they updated the list. What most Kobe fans want is for people to acknowledge that he's up with Jordan and Bird and Magic as an all time great. He ain't.

urunobili
08-14-2010, 11:40 PM
Michael would have never lost the 2008 Championship... never...

50Bestspurever
08-14-2010, 11:47 PM
Kobe's an amazing player, a hall of famer for sure, would certainly be top 50 all time if they updated the list. What most Kobe fans want is for people to acknowledge that he's up with Jordan and Bird and Magic as an all time great. He ain't.

Umm with five fucking rings, yeah he is up there with them.

elemento
08-15-2010, 12:03 AM
so what if he has 5 rings. In three of them he was carried by Shaq. Horry has 7 rings and?

Kobe can never be compared to Jordan. Where was Kobe when Shaq left? Before the Gasol gift, he couldn't even carry his team to a 2nd round playoff. Didn't even make the playoffs once. People say bullshit about Lebron but he carried that crap team in 06/07 to the finals by himself. When did Kobe do that?

Kobe is good, but he will never be as good as MJ.

MR.SILVER&BLack
08-15-2010, 12:24 AM
Umm with five fucking rings, yeah he is up there with them.
3 of them as a sidekick and he almost cost his team the title this year.

TE
08-15-2010, 12:57 AM
This should be in the NBA forum.

Man In Black
08-15-2010, 01:38 AM
Move this shit to the NBA Horum. Also, since he ain't the best to ever to play his position, Then he can ONLY be the 2nd best player ever at his position. This only places him in the Top 10 somewhere between 6-10. If he had played elsewhere and accomplished the same accolades, like say...Charlotte, he wouldn't have gotten as much love as he does as a Laker. Truth.

Also, twice defeated in the Finals affect him. Both Jordan & Duncan...flawless undefeated records in finals history. And for people who say who did Duncan play? I point out that he had to go through Shaq-Kobe twice to get a title.

But having said that, BEAN is the best perimeter player on the court today.

weebo
08-15-2010, 01:43 AM
Umm with five fucking rings, yeah he is up there with them.



Shaq got him three of those five and gasol got him atleast one.

timtonymanurich
08-15-2010, 01:45 AM
You can always count on a rape charge being brought up when Spurs fans talk about Kobe....:flag:


And why do you think that is...? Perhaps that Duncan, Parker and Gino have never fooled around on their wives, and Kobe has? Perhaps that Kobe has a "Glorify me" Persona and the previous 3 Spurs play sound team basketball.
Or Maybe perhaps that Kobe feels he's untouchable. And the Spurs big 3 know there's more too it than that.

Kobe = All time greats, + adultry + his constant comparisons to MJ = FAIL.

spurs10
08-15-2010, 01:59 AM
http://www.mugshots.com/IMAGES/P__PP__bryantkobe.jpg


There ya go....he's not going to be allowed in my front door...

TE
08-15-2010, 02:37 AM
http://www.mugshots.com/IMAGES/P__PP__bryantkobe.jpg


Looks like his father fucked a weasel. (pun intended)

ChumpDumper
08-15-2010, 02:41 AM
Honestly?

I'm not going to read an article about Kobe.

And wrong forum.

Obstructed_View
08-15-2010, 03:18 AM
Umm with five fucking rings, yeah he is up there with them.

Oh, then Robert Horry is too. :lol

Muser
08-15-2010, 03:49 AM
Oh, then Robert Horry is too. :lol

Not really.

Dex
08-15-2010, 04:02 AM
tl;dr. wgaf?

DrSteffo
08-15-2010, 06:35 AM
He is good of course but I don't like him or respect him. Too selfish, too big ego for my personal taste. He would rather see his team loose than share the glory with someone else (final year with Shaq proved that). He has matured a bit since then but I suspect him being a real asshole.

ambchang
08-15-2010, 12:47 PM
He also likes to break out the water works when his team losses. I saw that expression on TV as well.

21_Blessings
08-15-2010, 12:56 PM
Harlem/DPG/ChrisRichards/Kobe Haters

I want our HONEST thoughts. Just your HONEST thoughts on this article. I know some of you guys are trolls and not. But I'm asking for your honest opinion. You can PM it to me and I will keep it between us!


You won't get a honest thought on the matter around here. Not only is Kobe a better basketball player than Tim Duncan he also has more rings and isn't even close to finished to winning.

I'm sure that hurts, real bad. Muddies the thought process.

Ignorant Spurs fan
08-15-2010, 01:05 PM
You won't get a honest thought on the matter around here. Not only is Kobe a better basketball player than Tim Duncan he also has more rings and isn't even close to finished to winning.

I'm sure that hurts, real bad. Muddies the thought process.

Are you fucking kidding me?????

TIm Duncan is twice as good as Kobe ever was and is a better person too!!

elemento
08-15-2010, 01:26 PM
butthurt laker fans ..hahaha

Timmy won 4 rings as the man in the team. Kobe won 3 licking Shaq's butt, couldn't even carry the Lakers to the 2nd round in the playoffs by himself and last year choked badly in the finals. I mean. 6-24? C'mon let's be serious. Artest the best player of the game 7. Just LOL.

He isn't even a top 10 player of all time. How can people compare a guy that was carried his whole career by the best bigmans in the NBA with the best PF of all time?

C'mon sons. Let's be serious here.

alchemist
08-15-2010, 05:06 PM
:lol

arguing with a Kobe nerd is a :nope

Obstructed_View
08-15-2010, 05:30 PM
Not really.

Umm with seven fucking rings...

Leonard Curse
08-15-2010, 05:51 PM
i personally watched michael jordan play every time he played the spurs and ive also watched kobe play quit a bit and i know for a fact that kobe is not anything near what M.J was. Mike didnt want fouls and scream like a bitch everytime he shot the damn ball, those big mean mofos ala larry johnson from the hornets used to rough mike up when driving i mean try and lay him out!! i dont see anyone dare do that to kobe, and when they do kobe starts smiling and walking away as if he could actually beat someones ass lol

has he ever been in a fight? hell no because he avoids it completely and is scared, jordan on the other hand would butt his head on the opponent and let him know in no way shape or form is he backing down to anyone!!! you can give me a million articles to read and it still wont make me change what i saw and believe today!! why do you think people were mezmerized by mj even his enemy, i hated mike but damn i swear i caught as many games possible to see that guy in action cant say the same for kobe hes just at the free throw line all the time screamin hayyyyyyyyyy every siinngggllleee lllaayyuppppp gets old

50Bestspurever
08-15-2010, 06:19 PM
Shaq got him three of those five and gasol got him atleast one.

yeah so. kevin mchale and parish and johnson helped bird. kareem and worthy and plenty others helped magic. pippen, kerr, and paxon helped mj and so on and so on. i hate kobe as much as the next guy but to say he doesn't belong in the same conversation with those other guys is pure homerism.

mingus
08-15-2010, 06:22 PM
once Kobe wins two more rings as the main man, then he'll enter the conversation with Duncan. until then, you just don't compare driver's seat guys to passenger's seat guys, c'mon. it's 4-2, Duncan. nobody cares how many you won in the pasenger's seat.

and with lebron and Miami in the picture, Kobe has far from solidified that from happening.

El Wray
08-15-2010, 08:22 PM
I'm sure the Kobe fanboys will be here soon to defend Kobe.

howbouthemspurs
08-16-2010, 01:49 AM
You won't get a honest thought on the matter around here. Not only is Kobe a better basketball player than Tim Duncan he also has more rings and isn't even close to finished to winning.

I'm sure that hurts, real bad. Muddies the thought process.

Kobe sucks like that girl he raped in that hotel! He eats more cum than that girl he raped in that hotel! Hes got a pussy like that girl he raped in that hotel! Kobe hogs more balls than that girl he raped in that hotel!