Best young players who aren't Superstars?

[Cry Havoc]

Okay, so this is going to be a pretty subjective definition of the word, but outside of Durant, LeBron, Duncan, Kobe, Wade, Melo, Paul, Deron, Dirk, Howard, and Gasol, who are the best young players in the NBA right now?

Among players under 30...

Who do you have in your top 3 for guards?

Who do you have in your top 3 for big men?

I'm curious to know if anyone thinks a player will make a dark horse run to get into the top 5 in MVP voting this year outside of the usual suspects.

Side questions: How will John Wall do this year? Are there any players in college right now in your opinion that are ready to move to the pros and be a big time starter?

[clambake]

roddy boobwah.......the next american idol!

[hater]

Kobe is not young

neither is Dirk

[jacobdrj]

Darren Collison
Goran Dragic
Aaron Brooks

Paul Millsap
David Lee
Brook Lopez

John Wall will be fun to watch and explosive up until the ASB. After that, he may hit a wall. What will determine his greatness is whether or not he will completely fizzle by the ASB or he will change his game to accommodate the pace and length of the NBA game like Brandon Jennings

[Venti Quattro]

Westbrook

Bynum, when his knees can hold his weight

[jacobdrj]

Westbrook

He may be bordering on stardom... Not superstardom, but stardom... But that is a good one...

[Chieflion]

Top 3 PGs not in mentioned group under 30

1. Derrick Rose (Age 21) 20.8 PPG, 6.0 APG, 3.8 RPG

Reason: Derrick Rose is the best young PG in this group because of his elite mid-range jumper, elite end to end explosiveness and scoring ability. Although he only has a TS% of 53.2%, it is due to his inept 3 point range which will hopefully change next season. He has stated that he is improving his range. Who in the NBA can guard this man one on one? He is the best at scoring when it comes to everything within the arc. The one time all-star would continue his devastation upon the league next season.


2. Rajon Rondo (Age 23) 13.7 PPG, 9.8 APG, 4.4 RPG

Reason: Regular season stats do not do Rajon Rondo justice. Rondo's impact on the Celtics are immeasurable. The intangibles he has shown throughout the playoffs and his dominant command of Ray Allen, Paul Pierce and Kevin Garnett as a young PG made me a believer. I found myself supporting Rajon Rondo throughout the playoffs as I was captivated by his play and leadership. The triple double threat may not have a jump shot, but the way he impacted the game through whatever way possible made him number 2. His steals and defense of course were one of the reason he is number 2.


3. Tony Parker (Age 28) 16.0 PPG, 5.7 APG, 2.4 RPG

Reason: As undesirable as his play was last season as compared to 2009, he still made my top 3 here. It was a really tough choice. I chose Parker out of Brooks and Westbrook. He was better efficiently and that bought me over. A healthy Parker would hopefully be better next season.


Top 3 Shooting Guards under 30 not in mentioned group

1. Brandon Roy (Age 25) 21.5 PPG, 4.7 APG, 4.4 RPG

Reason: Brandon Roy had a sub-par season this past season. A lot of people blame this on Andre Miller not fitting in with Roy. To the contrary, Brandon Roy was able to work with him well. Roy was hampered by a hamstring issue this past season which affected his play, not Andre Miller. The three-guard lineups also skewed things for Roy out of his favor sometimes. Despite all that, he is still the best consensus number 1 on my list because he is just so damned good.


2. Joe Johnson (Age 28) 20.2 PPG, 4.6 APG, 4.4 RPG

Reason: I couldn't consider him young, like Parker, he is reaching 30 soon. However, he is the clear cut second after Roy in this ranking. He is the easiest guy to hate outside of LeBron James this summer because he is paid the most out of all FAs this season. Putting him here seems fair for him.


3. Tyreke Evans (Age 20) 20.1 PPG, 5.8 APG, 5.3 RPG

Reason: Tyreke Evans, coming off a 20/5/5 rookie season, and ROY award, is entrenched at 3 on my list. It wasn't that hard of a pick. His team sucked and he got some flack for it, he would be second here if not for his team record. Give me some more Tyreke next season, I look forward to his improvement.


Top 3 Small Forwards not included in the list

1. Danny Granger (Age 26) 24.1 PPG, 2.8 APG, 5.5 RPG

Reason: Clearly the best along with Iguodala out of all under 30 not included under the list of names. If not for the weird injuries like food poisoning and all that this past season, we might have seen a Danny Granger break-out season. Elite 3 point shooter and gets to the line, what is not to like?


2. Andre Iguodala (Age 26) 17.1 PPG, 5.8 APG, 6.5 RPG

Reason: I love me some Iggy. Awesome defender and all-around player. I have him as a forward, not a guard. There is nothing he can't do on the basketball court. I have seen him come up in the clutch, play defense and put up some nasty posters. Hopefully, he gets to be that number 2 guy I always want to see him be. He is most efficient that way and can show off his passing ability, another one of his best traits as a forward.


3. Josh Smith (Age 24) 15.7 PPG, 4.2 APG, 8.7 RPG

Reason: I struggled with myself here. The 3rd spot has always been a difficult choice for me doing these rankings. Although some people see Smith as a 4, I see him as a tweener and just slotted him as a small forward. Elite help defender, stealing the ball, blocking it from the weakside, ridiculously good passer this seaosn and learnt not to take stupid shots. Things are looking up for Josh Smith!


Top 3 Power Forward not included in the list given

1. Chris Bosh (Age 25) 24.0 PPG, 2.4 APG, 10.8 RPG

Reason: One of the most hated objects this off-season. I know his stats will drop but no one can doubt that talent. 24 and 10 is not easy to get. Although his team sucked at defense last season, and he deserves some of the slack, you can't say that the team was built around him to be even average defensively. That crew just sucked. He was also top 5 in offense in a list I saw that Solid D provided.


2. Amar'e Stoudemire (Age 27) 23.1 PPG, 1.0 APG, 8.9 RPG

Reason: Slotted him below Bosh, obvious pick. Most dangerous pick and roll finisher in the NBA and excellent mid-range jump shooter. Amar'e is the perfect player you want in a fast paced offense. He ain't good defensively, bu what did you expect anyway?


3. Zach Randolph (Age 28) 20.8 PPG, 1.8 APG, 11.7 RPG

Reason: Dominant offensive rebounder and good touch around the rim. Although he is a below the rim guy, I like watching him gobble down offensive rebounds and putting it back in. His game is not to post-up or shoot jump shots and I know his defense sucks. You cannot doubt 20/11 though. All-star this year too. Great year for Zach.


Top 3 Centers not included in the list given

1. Andrew Bogut (Age 25) 15.9 PPG, 1.9 APG, 10.2 RPG

Reason: Made the elite jump to top interior defender outside of Howard. Drew charges and blocked shots at a high rate while being one of the little offensive options this past season. Showed the entire package for a center in the modern era. Hope he recovers and shows us some more.


2. Al Horford (Age 23) 14.2 PPG, 2.3 APG, 9.9 RPG

Reason: The NBA made a joke out of Al Horford as he fell short of a double double season finishing with 9.9 rebounds per game. The league has become an absolute joke when it comes to centers. The only reason why Horford is here at number 2 was because there wasn't a choice.

3. Andray Blatche (Age 23) 14.1 PPG, 2.1 APG, 6.3 RPG

Reason: I cheated because the centers sucked and Blatche could have played this position better than them. Don't look at those raw stats. They don't do Blatche justice at all. When Blatche started, he has averaged 20.8 PPG, 3.5 APG and 8.2 RPG. Blatche would continue to showcase his talent next season. Remember the Wizards-Celtics game in the regular season? Blatche made Garnett his little bitch, making him got 0 for 7 or something, showing his defensive potential, although Garnett is washed up, he is still quite good.

[EmantheSpursFan]

1. Tyreke Evans
2. Westbrook
3. O.J. Mayo/Jennings

1. Brook Lopez
2. Andrew Bogut
3. Marc Gasol

I think the rook thats going to surprise many is DeMarcus Cousins, the Kings have a lot of good pieces with Tyreke Evans, Carl Landry and Omri Casspi now add Run DMC (DeMarcus Cousins) they are my Dark horse to make the playoffs next season.

[Dunc n Dave]

[B]Top 3 Centers not included in the list given

1. Andrew Bogut (Age 25) 15.9 PPG, 1.9 APG, 10.2 RPG

2. Al Horford (Age 23) 14.2 PPG, 2.3 APG, 9.9 RPG

3. Andray Blatche (Age 23) 14.1 PPG, 2.1 APG, 6.3 RPG


How do you include a guy like Blatche on your center list while leaving off a guy like Brook Lopez? The guy plays like a young Tim Duncan. Look at the stats.

Lopez 18.8 ppg. 8.6 rebs (3.3 offensive), 1.7 blks, .499 FG% and 81% FT

[Chieflion]

How do you include a guy like Blatche on your center list while leaving off a guy like Brook Lopez? The guy plays like a young Tim Duncan. Look at the stats.

Lopez 18.8 ppg. 8.6 rebs (3.3 offensive), 1.7 blks, .499 FG% and 81% FT

How about you look at Blatche's stats when he was starting at center. Way better than Brook Lopez. I could have slotted in Greg Oden at number 3 for his defensive and rebounding capabilities. Brook Lopez is overrated.

[Dunc n Dave]

My future superstars are:

PG Derrick Rose
SG Tyreke Evans & Brandon Roy
SF Danny Granger
PF Josh Smith & Andrea Bargnani (Who else is gonna score on that team?)
C Brook Lopez

[Dunc n Dave]

How about you look at Blatche's stats when he was starting at center. Way better than Brook Lopez. I could have slotted in Greg Oden at number 3 for his defensive and rebounding capabilities. Brook Lopez is overrated.

Blatche played heavy minutes on an injury depleted Wizards team and the end of the year. No one else could come close to putting the ball in the basket for them. He won't put up numbers like that this year when you have guys like Arenas, Wall, and Josh Howard taking all the shots. He's the 4th option at best 12ppg TOPS!

The guy is 6-11 and couldn't even shoot 50% from the field. Case in point: His last game he shot 10-24 for 24 pts and 4 turnovers in 36 minutes....

[Chieflion]

Blatche played heavy minutes on an injury depleted Wizards team and the end of the year. No one else could come close to putting the ball in the basket for them. He won't put up numbers like that this year when you have guys like Arenas, Wall, and Josh Howard taking all the shots. He's the 4th option at best 12ppg TOPS!

And Brook Lopez is better than him because he played on a 12 win team which had no one to put the basketball in for him? And Blatche is the Wizards' best offensive threat in the post and is their best playmaker in a half court setting.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Okay, so this is going to be a pretty subjective definition of the word, but outside of Durant, LeBron, Duncan, Kobe, Wade, Melo, Paul, Deron, Dirk, Howard, and Gasol, who are the best young players in the NBA right now?

Among players under 30...

Who do you have in your top 3 for guards?

Who do you have in your top 3 for big men?

I'm curious to know if anyone thinks a player will make a dark horse run to get into the top 5 in MVP voting this year outside of the usual suspects.

Side questions: How will John Wall do this year? Are there any players in college right now in your opinion that are ready to move to the pros and be a big time starter?

Not for MVP, but I see Steph Curry as a darkhorse for top 5 in scoring this year

[scanry]

Westbrook

Bynum, when his knees can hold his weight

Cmon now, not this Bynum crap again. He's a bum and you know it. Moron has Kobe and Gasol on the team and yet i have that feeling that he doesn't want to pass the ball. He's always been a cancer on the Offensive end. Does anyone else notice that besides me.

I'll say this, once PJ retires, Bynum will become a team cancer and i won't surprised if the Lakers trade him. You need a hard a$$ coach to straighten this kid out and even PJ can't do it..

[DeadlyDynasty]

Cmon now, not this Bynum crap again. He's a bum and you know it. Moron has Kobe and Gasol on the team and yet i have that feeling that he doesn't want to pass the ball. He's always been a cancer on the Offensive end. Does anyone else notice that besides me.

I'll say this, once PJ retires, Bynum will become a team cancer and i won't surprised if the Lakers trade him. You need a hard a$$ coach to straighten this kid out and even PJ can't do it..

Huh? The kid has been plagued by injuries. Go look at Bynum's numbers in '08, '09, and '10 before the injuries...for a 20-21-22 y/o kid with limited touches, they've been outstanding

[BRHornet45]

Marcus Thornton

[Dunc n Dave]

And Brook Lopez is better than him because he played on a 12 win team which had no one to put the basketball in for him? And Blatche is the Wizards' best offensive threat in the post and is their best playmaker in a half court setting.

When your other 4 starters are Shaun Livingston, Nick Young, Fabricio Oberto, and Mike Miller, you BETTER score 20+ppg or your team will get beat by 30 every night.

Lopez got 18.8ppg in only 13.8 shots per game and got to the line 5.1 times per game.

Blatche got worse the longer he started. Besides averaging less than 4 FTs per games as a starter, in February he shot 55% on 16 FG attempts, March: 47% on 18.6 attempts, and by April he was shooting 43% on 19.4 attempts(all starts). Those are Jermaine Oneal type of shooting percentages! In the same months his turnovers per game went from 2.3, 3.3 and 3.8 by April.

He is no SUPERSTAR in the making...., he just got to shoot the ball 20 times a game on a DEPLETED TEAM. Only 6 guys averaged more than 19 shots a game in the NBA last year:
Monta Ellis, Carmelo Anthony, Bryant, Durant, James, and Wade. He is not in those guy's league.

[Dunc n Dave]

In April, Blatche got more shot attempts per game (19.4 #9 in the NBA in April))than guys like Dirk, Amare, Tyreke Evans, Joe Johnson, and Deron Williams.

Lopez's best month was February and he only got 13.2 shots per game and averaged 19.8 pts on 58% shooting.

The Wiz have upgraded offensively from last April, while the Nets haven't gotten nearly as much help. Don't see how you can claim Blatche will be a superstar before Lopez will.

[Chieflion]

In April, Blatche got more shot attempts per game (19.4 #9 in the NBA in April))than guys like Dirk, Amare, Tyreke Evans, Joe Johnson, and Deron Williams.

Lopez's best month was February and he only got 13.2 shots per game and averaged 19.8 pts on 58% shooting.

The Wiz have upgraded offensively from last April, while the Nets haven't gotten nearly as much help. Don't see how you can claim Blatche will be a superstar before Lopez will.

Good job comparing Blatche's worst month as a starter and comparing it to Lopez's best month. Blatche is better than Lopez at defense and passing as well, with most of the other things equal.

[Dunc n Dave]

Good job comparing Blatche's worst month as a starter and comparing it to Lopez's best month. Blatche is better than Lopez at defense and passing as well, with most of the other things equal.

I showed Blatche's best month when he first became a starter as 55% in February in 7 starts, but nice try in trying to deflect from the argument.

Most team's hadn't scouted Blatche yet in February, but as the season went on he got worse statistically when teams game planned for him culminating in him shooting 43% as a CENTER in April taking 19.4 shots a game.

If that is how he'll perform as "THE MAN" than he's NOT superstar material.

And Lopez is the better shot blocker and offensive rebounder, by far, and turns the ball over less.
Blatche 0.9 blks and 2.3 O Rebs as starter w/ 3.3 TOs
Lopez 1.7 blks and 3.3 O Rebs as a starter w/2.5 TOs

Did I mention Lopez was 5th in the NBA in Offensive Rebounds per game?

[Chieflion]

I showed Blatche's best month when he first became a starter as 55% in February in 7 starts, but nice try in trying to deflect from the argument.

Most team's hadn't scouted Blatche yet in February, but as the season went on he got worse statistically when teams game planned for him culminating in him shooting 43% as a CENTER in April taking 19.4 shots a game.

If that is how he'll perform as "THE MAN" than he's NOT superstar material.

And Lopez is the better shot blocker and offensive rebounder, by far, and turns the ball over less.
Blatche 0.9 blks and 2.3 O Rebs as starter w/ 3.3 TOs
Lopez 1.7 blks and 3.3 O Rebs as a starter w/2.5 TOs

Did I mention Lopez was 5th in the NBA in Offensive Rebounds per game?

This defensive stalwart Brook Lopez had a defensive rating of 110 while Andray Blatche had a 106. I admit Blatche is not on Lopez's level when it comes to scoring efficiently. You add those weapons the Wizards have next season, and his efficiency would improve. I don't see why Blatche wouldn't be better than Brook Lopez down the road. I prefer Blatche's extra dimension is finding the open player and playing solid man to man and team defense.

You keep pointing out how the Wizards are shit but somehow Blatche keeps carrying them and keeping them in games all while outplaying most of his counterparts.

[Dunc n Dave]

This defensive stalwart Brook Lopez had a defensive rating of 110 while Andray Blatche had a 106. I admit Blatche is not on Lopez's level when it comes to scoring efficiently. You add those weapons the Wizards have next season, and his efficiency would improve. I don't see why Blatche wouldn't be better than Brook Lopez down the road. I prefer Blatche's extra dimension is finding the open player and playing solid man to man and team defense.

You keep pointing out how the Wizards are shit but somehow Blatche keeps carrying them and keeping them in games all while outplaying most of his counterparts.

He HAD to keep them in games; hence him averaging 19 shots a game (more than Dirk, Amare, etc). I already listed his starting lineup, none of which would start for 90% of the NBA teams out there in 2010, with the exception of MAYBE Mike Miller who is nowhere close to the Mike Miller from his Grizzlies days.

Lopez's team wasn't good either, but he had passable starters playing with him like Devin Harris (who actually got more shot attempts than Lopez when he wasn't injured) and Courtney Lee who came on in the 2nd half of the year after a poor 1st half.

[Dunc n Dave]

This defensive stalwart Brook Lopez had a defensive rating of 110 while Andray Blatche had a 106.

Seem pretty close in defensive rating to me, a far cry from Blatche being WAY better defensively than Lopez, like you make it out to sound...

[Chieflion]

He HAD to keep them in games; hence him averaging 19 shots a game (more than Dirk, Amare, etc). I already listed his starting lineup, none of which would start for 90% of the NBA teams out there in 2010, with the exception of MAYBE Mike Miller who is nowhere close to the Mike Miller from his Grizzlies days.

Lopez's team wasn't good either, but he had passable starters playing with him like Devin Harris (who actually got more shot attempts than Lopez when he wasn't injured) and Courtney Lee who came on in the 2nd half of the year after a poor 1st half.
And Blatche did a better job at keeping that Wizard crap competitive as opposed to Lopez for the Nets. And somehow Blatche managed to have his assists numbers higher than Lopez despite having terrible options beside him. He made them look passable.

The Nets looked terrible even with their young talent, which speaks volumes about the way Lopez and Blatche carried their squads respectively.

[DaDakota]

Chase Budinger
Kevin Martin
Danny Granger
Stephan Curry
Anthony Randolph

DD

[ynh]

And Blatche did a better job at keeping that Wizard crap competitive as opposed to Lopez for the Nets. And somehow Blatche managed to have his assists numbers higher than Lopez despite having terrible options beside him. He made them look passable.

The Nets looked terrible even with their young talent, which speaks volumes about the way Lopez and Blatche carried their squads respectively.

If competitive you mean going 9-34 and having a 16 game losing streak.

You're using some pretty weak arguments to say that Blatche is better.. Better D? You do realize Flip pulled his ass out of a game because he didn't want to get back on defense?

[Chieflion]

If competitive you mean going 9-34 and having a 16 game losing streak.

You're using some pretty weak arguments to say that Blatche is better.. Better D? You do realize Flip pulled his ass out of a game because he didn't want to get back on defense?

9-34 > 12-70

How is it a weak argument when Brook Lopez had better teammates and went 12-70?

[ynh]

For argument sakes in that same period Lopez won 9 games in his last 43 .. You're comparing the results of someone starting half the amount of games as the other, while putting up worse numbers, and saying that they are a better player.

If you want to use Blatche's record while starting you have a 43 game sample.. It was the last 43 games (he might of started 2 more earlier in the year.. not interested enought to go back and look) take that same 43 game sample and Lopez and the Nets were 9-34 also.

You can't compare two unlike sample sizes and then project the sample on it's average and expect people to take you serious.. especially when that person has far worse statisics, minus assists.

Besides.. I didn't say he had a better team.. 12-70 says he didn't.

[Chieflion]

For argument sakes in that same period Lopez won 9 games in his last 43 .. You're comparing the results of someone starting half the amount of games as the other, while putting up worse numbers, and saying that they are a better player.

If you want to use Blatche's record while starting you have a 43 game sample.. It was the last 43 games (he might of started 2 more earlier in the year.. not interested enought to go back and look) take that same 43 game sample and Lopez and the Nets were 9-34 also.

You can't compare two unlike sample sizes and then project the sample on it's average and expect people to take you serious.. especially when that person has far worse statisics, minus assists.

Besides.. I didn't say he had a better team.. 12-70 says he didn't.

Far worse stats? Check the stats while he was starting. I stated it when I made my rankings. Go check it. He averaged more than 20 points and 8 rebounds while starting, while having more assists with worse teammates.

He is clearly a starter in the NBA and was on the bench due to Antawn Jamison. When he started, he showed far more talent than given credit for. Brook Lopez and Blatche are easily comparable players and one could make an argument for each of them.

[ynh]

Again.. 12-70 says he didn't have worse teammates.

[Chieflion]

Again.. 12-70 says he didn't have worse teammates.

Devin Harris was better than anyone not named Andray Blatche on the Wizards post Butler, Haywood and Jamison. Name me anyone better than that on the Wizards.

[ynh]

Never said you didn't have an argument.. I said that you are picking the wrong examples to prove your point (that he made the team more competitive.. had worse teammates.. played better D).. Your starter stats aren't that bad though.

[Chieflion]

Never said you didn't have an argument.. I said that you are picking the wrong examples to prove your point (that he made the team more competitive.. had worse teammates.. played better D).. Your starter stats aren't that bad though.

How didn't Andray Blatche make a team of Nick Young, Earl Boykins, Mike Miller, Javale McGee more competitive than they should have been as opposed to Brook Lopez with Devin Harris, Courtney Lee, Terrence Williams? How were they wrong examples?

[ynh]

lol Devin Harris was complete shit last year.. Are you serious.

Come on.. For a "numbers means everything" guy you seem to bend that rule when it doesn't go in your favor.

Again.. 12-70 says that he didn't have a better team around him.

lol he sure as HELL didn't have a better coach

[ynh]

Tell me again how a player that got pulled by his coach for not getting back on D is so much of a better defender than the other.

[Chieflion]

lol Devin Harris was complete shit last year.. Are you serious.

Come on.. For a "numbers means everything" guy you seem to bend that rule when it doesn't go in your favor.

Again.. 12-70 says that he didn't have a better team around him.

lol he sure as HELL didn't have a better coach

Devin Harris being complete shit is still better than Earl Boykins. Courtney Lee and Terrence Williams are better than Nick Young and Mike Miller. Who was the difference maker that made 9-34 and 12-70? I would let you tell me but it definitely wasn't Javale McGee.

[ynh]

Tell me again how much better of a record Blatche had starting than Lopez while forgetting Lopez started the year before and won something like 35 ish games.

[Chieflion]

Tell me again how a player that got pulled by his coach for not getting back on D is so much of a better defender than the other.

You seem to have misunderstood the situation. Blatche explained it as a miscommunication and thought he was talking about offense after he chucked up a shot.

[Chieflion]

Tell me again how much better of a record Blatche had starting than Lopez while forgetting Lopez started the year before and won something like 35 ish games.

Thanks for telling me that Vince Carter actually meant so much to the New Jersey Nets in 2009.

[ynh]

Again your argument is weak.. You are arguing that 9-34 would of projected out to a better record than the 82 game sample (just for that year) that you have with lopez. It doesn't work that way.. Your argument is based around a guess that percentages would of stayed the same.

[ynh]

Thanks for telling me that everything stays a constant and thus fits your arguement.

[ynh]

Again I never said you couldn't debate this.. I said the way you were going about it was pretty weak. You have yet to prove otherwise.

Here you go.

Future superstar.
http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2010/03/andray-blatche-quit-on-his-team/

[Chieflion]

Again I never said you couldn't debate this.. I said the way you were going about it was pretty weak. You have yet to prove otherwise.

Here you go.

Future superstar.
http://www.slamonline.com/online/nba/2010/03/andray-blatche-quit-on-his-team/

That's half the stroy.

[Chieflion]

Again your argument is weak.. You are arguing that 9-34 would of projected out to a better record than the 82 game sample (just for that year) that you have with lopez. It doesn't work that way.. Your argument is based around a guess that percentages would of stayed the same.

It is a large sample size of 43 games. Not sure what you want here. If it is even around the same percentage, he would win about 16-17 games which is better than 12.

[Hornets1]

Marcus Thornton



:toast:toastExactly


http://www.memphisflyer.com/images/blogimages/2009/06/24/1245872878-ncaa_second_round_bf1c.jpg


http://www4.pictures.zimbio.com/gi/New+Jersey+Nets+v+New+Orleans+Hornets+wv7x7tQhhFnl .jpg

[Dunc n Dave]

Man Chief, you just won't give it up, will you? How many times do I have to explain that he got more shot attempts in the last 2 months of the season than all but like 10 guys in the NBA; OUT OF NECESSITY.

That WILL NOT happen again with Arenas, Wall, and Howard back this year. Blatche will MAX OUT as a 12pts 8 reb guy this year if all goes well. And I wouldn't be surprised to see him shoot about 46% FG either, now that teams have scouted him and know how to play him.

How can you project him to be a SUPERSTAR as the 4th option on that team? Will Richard Jefferson average 20ppg this year? How about Ron Artest? Maybe Rajon Rondo?

[Chieflion]

Man Chief, you just won't give it up, will you? How many times do I have to explain that he got more shot attempts in the last 2 months of the season than all but like 10 guys in the NBA; OUT OF NECESSITY.

That WILL NOT happen again with Arenas, Wall, and Howard back this year. Blatche will MAX OUT as a 12pts 8 reb guy this year if all goes well. And I wouldn't be surprised to see him shoot about 46% FG either, now that teams have scouted him and know how to play him.

How can you project him to be a SUPERSTAR as the 4th option on that team? Will Richard Jefferson average 20ppg this year? How about Ron Artest? Maybe Rajon Rondo?

When did I project him to be a superstar? You are projecting Brook Lopez to be a Tim Duncan lite. I respectfully disagree and say he does not have that in him.

And no, Josh Howard is below Andray Blatche at this point of his career in the food chain. You say his efficiency will dip if he will be taking less ill-advised shots as well. That is hilarious and not happening. Just because teams know how to play him. You sound like he will not improve. Same goes for Wall. Ya, just stick the shots out there for a rookie and take away shots from your best player last season. I didn't see Ben Gordon lose his touches because Derrick Rose joined the Bulls.

I don't see Nick Young, Mike Miller, Earl Boykins, Javale McGee take the shots out of necessity. The only guy capable was Blatche and he did a good job and showed an all-around game.

[Dunc n Dave]

I don't see Nick Young, Mike Miller, Earl Boykins, Javale McGee take the shots out of necessity. The only guy capable was Blatche and he did a good job and showed an all-around game.

Thanks for agreeing and proving my point. They didn't have anyone else capable of scoring 20ppg, so he took those shots out of necessity.

Just because you are capable of 20ppg doesn't mean you will score 20. It depends on the pieces around you. Blatche had no pieces so he had free reign to average more shots than Dirk a LEGIT superstar and HOF'er.

The purpose of this thread was to list the best players under 30 who are not yet superstars. Put Dejuan Blair on that Wizard team last season, give him the same # of shots that Blatche had and I bet he averages similar, if not better numbers. Maybe 19pts and 14 rebs. So I guess he should be in your argument too, as the best young players who are not yet superstars.

[Chieflion]

Thanks for agreeing and proving my point. They didn't have anyone else capable of scoring 20ppg, so he took those shots out of necessity.

Just because you are capable of 20ppg doesn't mean you will score 20. It depends on the pieces around you. Blatche had no pieces so he had free reign to average more shots than Dirk a LEGIT superstar and HOF'er.

The purpose of this thread was to list the best players under 30 who are not yet superstars. Put Dejuan Blair on that Wizard team last season, give him the same # of shots that Blatche had and I bet he averages similar, if not better numbers. Maybe 19pts and 14 rebs. So I guess he should be in your argument too, as the best young players who are not yet superstars.

But Blair didn't. Blatche did it, he could have failed to put up those stats, but he did. Your point really doesn't mean anything. he still has to do it. Blatche did it. Lopez didn't do it. Blatche did it. I have Blatche as part of my top 3. You can have Lopez. Right now, Blatche is better than Lopez.

[Dunc n Dave]

But Blair didn't. Blatche did it, he could have failed to put up those stats, but he did. Your point really doesn't mean anything. he still has to do it. Blatche did it. Lopez didn't do it. Blatche did it. I have Blatche as part of my top 3. You can have Lopez. Right now, Blatche is better than Lopez.

I have yet to see anyone agree with you that Blatche is better than Lopez. Lopez didn't get the shots Blatche did so the fact that "Lopez didn't do it, Blatche did" is a weak argument because of the different situations for each player. ESpecially since Blatche "did it" while shooting 43% his last month on 19 shot attempts.

You are in the EXTREME minority in believing Blatche to be better than Lopez, so maybe your point really doesn't mean anything, or wait... let me guess.... you are just THAT MUCH SMARTER than all the NBA experts and analysts out there who have Lopez ranked higher than Blatche?

[Chieflion]

I have yet to see anyone agree with you that Blatche is better than Lopez. Lopez didn't get the shots Blatche did so the fact that "Lopez didn't do it, Blatche did" is a weak argument because of the different situations for each player. ESpecially since Blatche "did it" while shooting 43% his last month on 19 shot attempts.

You are in the EXTREME minority in believing Blatche to be better than Lopez, so maybe your point really doesn't mean anything, or wait... let me guess.... you are just THAT MUCH SMARTER than all the NBA experts and analysts out there who have Lopez ranked higher than Blatche?

You dragged out Andray Blatche's stats in the final month of the regular season and argued he shot 43% and called it weak and Jermaine O'Neal territory while taking 19 shots. That was one of the most hypocritical statements ever.

Ya, because taking the shots Lopez took was so difficult while taking an outstanding 12.6 shots a game that he shot 39.8% in the month of April. That is Allen Iverson territory while taking so little shots. For a big, that is absolutely horrible while recording 3.1 turnovers. I can play this stupid game too. Could it be that people started to guard Lopez more seriously after they started to win a game or two? Wait, that can't be it. Only Andray Blatche gets the attention cause he is just that good. Seeing as how ineffective he was in the last month of the season he was, he can't be any good.

Thanks for giving me the credit I did not claim that I am smarter than all the NBA analysts. Why don't you bring up a valid point about their games instead of throwing out lame insults? The stats and results make Blatche look like the better player.

[Smooth Criminal]

Okay, so this is going to be a pretty subjective definition of the word, but outside of Durant, LeBron, Duncan, Kobe, Wade, Melo, Paul, Deron, Dirk, Howard, and Gasol, who are the best young players in the NBA right now?

Among players under 30...

Who do you have in your top 3 for guards?

Who do you have in your top 3 for big men?

I'm curious to know if anyone thinks a player will make a dark horse run to get into the top 5 in MVP voting this year outside of the usual suspects.

Side questions: How will John Wall do this year? Are there any players in college right now in your opinion that are ready to move to the pros and be a big time starter?

Gasol a superstar?

[Dunc n Dave]

You dragged out Andray Blatche's stats in the final month of the regular season and argued he shot 43% and called it weak and Jermaine O'Neal territory while taking 19 shots. That was one of the most hypocritical statements ever.

Ya, because taking the shots Lopez took was so difficult while taking an outstanding 12.6 shots a game that he shot 39.8% in the month of April. That is Allen Iverson territory while taking so little shots. For a big, that is absolutely horrible while recording 3.1 turnovers. I can play this stupid game too. Could it be that people started to guard Lopez more seriously after they started to win a game or two? Wait, that can't be it. Only Andray Blatche gets the attention cause he is just that good. Seeing as how ineffective he was in the last month of the season he was, he can't be any good.

Thanks for giving me the credit I did not claim that I am smarter than all the NBA analysts. Why don't you bring up a valid point about their games instead of throwing out lame insults? The stats and results make Blatche look like the better player.

Which is worse for your team: 43% on 19 shots a game or 39% on 12 shots a game?

If I take 3 shots a game and shot 33% (1 of 3) am I hurting my team's offense more than the guy who goes 9 of 24 from the field?

And you must be smarter than the analysts if just because you say Blatche is better than Lopez makes it the truth, despite the fact no one has backed up your claim.

[Dunc n Dave]

The stats and results make Blatche look like the better player.

Since it's all about stats with you, here's one for ya:

Lopez was 27th in the league in PER last year with a PER of 20.11 (league average was a PER of 15). Where was Blatche on the list? I see guys like Garnett, Horford, Rondo, Al Jefferson, Derrick Rose, Lemarcus Aldridge and Paul Pierce all BELOW Brook Lopez in PER, but I don't see Blatche in the Top 50?

He must be such a stat machine that he's too good for the Top 50.:wow

Don't like PER? How about True Shooting %?
Lopez 57%,
Blatche 51.9%

Maybe a stat that would skew the results in Blatche's favor is more your liking? Lets try Effective FG% since it gives more weight to guys who can hit 3ptrs which "Blatche did it" and "Lopez didn't," as you said. Since Lopez doesn't really shoot 3's and Blatches does, this one should show that Blatche is better than Lopez.

Lopez:.499 eFG%
Blatche: .485% eFG%

Damn... what next? NBA Live online winning percentages maybe?

[Basketballgirl25]

The Nets looked terrible even with their young talent, which speaks volumes about the way Lopez and Blatche carried their squads respectively.

The Nets looked terrible, because they had a shitty coach.:toast

[Basketballgirl25]

lol Devin Harris was complete shit last year.. Are you serious.

Come on.. For a "numbers means everything" guy you seem to bend that rule when it doesn't go in your favor.

Again.. 12-70 says that he didn't have a better team around him.

lol he sure as HELL didn't have a better coach

being a Nets fan I have to tell you Devin Harris being shit wasn't the worse last year, the whole team was bad and injured most of the season and we had a shitty coach, and players prob didn't buy into that

[Chieflion]

Since it's all about stats with you, here's one for ya:

Lopez was 27th in the league in PER last year with a PER of 20.11 (league average was a PER of 15). Where was Blatche on the list? I see guys like Garnett, Horford, Rondo, Al Jefferson, Derrick Rose, Lemarcus Aldridge and Paul Pierce all BELOW Brook Lopez in PER, but I don't see Blatche in the Top 50?

He must be such a stat machine that he's too good for the Top 50.:wow

Don't like PER? How about True Shooting %?
Lopez 57%,
Blatche 51.9%

Maybe a stat that would skew the results in Blatche's favor is more your liking? Lets try Effective FG% since it gives more weight to guys who can hit 3ptrs which "Blatche did it" and "Lopez didn't," as you said. Since Lopez doesn't really shoot 3's and Blatches does, this one should show that Blatche is better than Lopez.

Lopez:.499 eFG%
Blatche: .485% eFG%

Damn... what next? NBA Live online winning percentages maybe?

How about you take the stats when they started, which happened to be my premise.

[Chieflion]

Which is worse for your team: 43% on 19 shots a game or 39% on 12 shots a game?

If I take 3 shots a game and shot 33% (1 of 3) am I hurting my team's offense more than the guy who goes 9 of 24 from the field?

And you must be smarter than the analysts if just because you say Blatche is better than Lopez makes it the truth, despite the fact no one has backed up your claim.

Ya, Lopez took 12.6 shots, not 3. Keep it up with your hypothetical situations about Blatche taking less shots next season like Brook Lopez would take more. You are doing great.

[Dunc n Dave]

How about you take the stats when they started, which happened to be my premise.

There you go again... doing what you do best. Deflect, deflect, deflect...

No stats to prove me wrong (unless they back up your point), just deflection, when they don't.... :rolleyes

[Dunc n Dave]

Ya, Lopez took 12.6 shots, not 3. Keep it up with your hypothetical situations about Blatche taking less shots next season like Brook Lopez would take more. You are doing great.

More deflection from you. Way to completely ignore the first part of that post. Maybe you have ADD or something. So I'll repost it for you....




Which is worse for your team offensively: 43% on 19 shots a game or 39% on 12 shots a game?

Hint: Remember that only 6 guys in the NBA shot more than 19 shots a game last year....

[Chieflion]

More deflection from you. Way to completely ignore the first part of that post. Maybe you have ADD or something. So I'll repost it for you....




Which is worse for your team offensively: 43% on 19 shots a game or 39% on 12 shots a game?

Hint: Remember that only 6 guys in the NBA shot more than 19 shots a game last year....

39% on 12 shots is worse. And yes, because other people on the Wizards are supposed to take those shots? There isn't a deflection. He took 12.6 shots, not 3. The one deflecting anything is you. You twisted a worse percentage into something better than a higher percentage. 12 shots is very meaningful. You do a good job posting insults when you can't even figure out 43% > 39% on a good amount of shot attempts.

[Chieflion]

There you go again... doing what you do best. Deflect, deflect, deflect...

No stats to prove me wrong (unless they back up your point), just deflection, when they don't.... :rolleyes

I don't have the PER, the TS% and eFG% of Blatche when he started. There is no deflection here. When I find it, I will get back to you.

Blatche actually has a better field goal percentage when he plays a bigger role with 48.1 FG% as opposed to 47.4% when he isn't starting.

[Dunc n Dave]

39% on 12 shots is worse. And yes, because other people on the Wizards are supposed to take those shots? There isn't a deflection. He took 12.6 shots, not 3. The one deflecting anything is you. You twisted a worse percentage into something better than a higher percentage. 12 shots is very meaningful. You do a good job posting insults when you can't even figure out 43% > 39% on a good amount of shot attempts.


:rollin Thanks for proving you are clueless about player efficiency.

When you take more shots than everyone in the NBA except 8 guys AND YOU ARE A POST PLAYER, you better shoot better than 43% or you are CRIPPLING your team's chances of ever winning.

Besides that, the guys who are ahead of him in shot attempts are all perimeter players. Everyone in the Top 10 in shot attempts are perimeter players except Blatche who has no real mid range game, so he effectively shot 43% on post up plays.

Every post up player who took 14 shots or more per game in that same time period shot 50% or better with the exception Zach Randolph who shot 44.7% during that time.


Another trivia question for you:
Which is better: shooting 33% on 3 pointers or 40% on 2 pt field goals? Really think BEYOND the %'s this time...

[Chieflion]

:rollin Thanks for proving you are clueless about player efficiency.

When you take more shots than everyone in the NBA except 8 guys AND YOU ARE A POST PLAYER, you better shoot better than 43% or you are CRIPPLING your team's chances of ever winning.

Besides that, the guys who are ahead of him in shot attempts are all perimeter players. Everyone in the Top 10 in shot attempts are perimeter players except Blatche who has no real mid range game, so he effectively shot 43% on post up plays.

Every post up player who took 14 shots or more per game in that same time period shot 50% or better with the exception Zach Randolph who shot 44.7% during that time.


Another trivia question for you:
Which is better: shooting 33% on 3 pointers or 40% on 2 pt field goals? Really think BEYOND the %'s this time...
Because Brook Lopez is not a low post scorer and he doesn't shoot 39% from the field and he takes 3 point shots like Dirk, then your point would be legit. Still think 43% is not better than 39%? Blatche has a mid range game. I wish to point you out to www.nba.com/hotspots and search for Andray Blatche to look at his percentages outside the paint from all the way till inside the 3 point line. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.


On that stupid trivia question: Of course shooting 33% on 3 pointers is better than 40% from 2. But that has nothing to do with the damn premise because Brook Lopez doesn't take 3s. That's okay. You are still a dumbass.

[Dunc n Dave]

Because Brook Lopez is not a low post scorer and he doesn't shoot 39% from the field and he takes 3 point shots like Dirk, then your point would be legit.

Again, you deflect. Lopez averaged fewer shots per game than Blatche as a starter and was more efficient than Blatche in fewer attempts. Blatche was Top 10 in shot attempts in April and had the worst FG% of all post players with 14 shots or more per game. Obviuously that list doesn't include Lopez since he only took 12 per game, or did your ADD kick in again?



Still think 43% is not better than 39%?
43% on 19 shots is NOT better than 39% on 12 shots. There is a 7 shot difference and those 7 shots COULD HAVE gone to a teammate who is a better shooter or at least had a better look at an open shot than the forced shots that Blatche was throwing up as "the man." You might have a case if there was only a difference of 1-2 shots per game but Blatche had 33% MORE shot attempts than Lopez had. That is a huge disparity.



Blatche has a mid range game. I wish to point you out to www.nba.com/hotspots and search for Andray Blatche to look at his percentages outside the paint from all the way till inside the 3 point line. You clearly have no idea what you are talking about.

:lol THAT is your argument??? He has 2 hot spots outside of 5 feet (15-18 feet at top of FT line and corner 3 pter where he was 3 for 6 for the year) He only took 31 shots from the FT area ALL SEASON and THAT constitutes a mid range game? :rollin

So you are telling me that 31 shots out of 999 for the season (3.1% of his attempts) PROVES that Blatche has a mid range game? This is great stuff!

Even if you look at his last 10 games, all starts, (since you love to throw that in there as an excuse all the time despite the fact he only shot 1 percentage point better as a starter than he did as a reserve), he only took that shot 5 times in his last 10 games. The best he shot from any other spot on the floor other than POINT BLANK range and FT line area was 43%. You REALLY are reaching here.

Let me offer this tidbit:
Blatche, meanwhile, had over 40 percent of his possessions end in either a post-up or an isolation, and he finished 284th in the league in offensive efficiency on spot-up shots.
http://www.bulletsforever.com/2010/8/16/1625414/why-john-walls-scoring-numbers-may
:rollin Still think he has a mid-range game?


On that stupid trivia question: Of course shooting 33% on 3 pointers is better than 40% from 2. But that has nothing to do with the damn premise because Brook Lopez doesn't take 3s. That's okay. You are still a dumbass.

Good, at least now I know you ARE capable of looking past the NUMBERS and seeing there's more to the story than just who has the better percentages. Maybe your ADD is improving (see my explanation above of WHY 43% on 19 shots in worse than 39% on 12 shots), or at least you aren't a TOTAL dumbass.

LOL at you calling me out for throwing around insults then doing it right back. Way to lead by example, Chief. Oh and don't go trying to deflect again by talking about Brook Lopez's lack of hotspots outside the paint. I never claimed that Lopez had a mid-range game. You'll need to find some other way to deflect from the fact that your argument is in an unrecoverable tail spin right now.

[Chieflion]

Apparently, you don't get that only shooting past 50% gets you a hotspot. Almost no nba player shoots over 50% from mid range. Blatche did a good job maintaining around 40% as the first option on his team. He has a mid-range game which he doesn't use often, you can see the percentages, he has it.

Would you mind naming the Wizards players who shoot a higher percentage than Blatche? 43% > 39% and that was Blatche's worst month. You keep saying he shot those shots out of necessity and then you tell me someone else could take the shots (kept asking who, tell me who?), Brook Lopez didn't shoot those 12 shots out of necessity yet had a 39% to account for, which sucks. Blatche shot 48% when he started and here were his teammates. Wonder who has ADD and clinging on to that 43% for his dear life.

Mike Miller: 50.1% (48% from 3) Only guy capable of making shots. How about we give him the ball like Joe Johnson and let him produce, maybe that will work.
Al Thornton: 46.3% (35.3% from 3)
Randy Foye: 41.4% (34.6% from 3)
Nick Young: 41.8% (40.6% from 3)
Earl Boykins: 42.7% (31.7% from 3)
Javale McGee: 50.8% (Maybe Blatche should have passed to a man with no post game at all and let him throw shots up.)
Shaun Livingston: 53.5% (0% from 3) Pass the ball to him and let him run some plays. It would be hilarious when he doesn't have the ability to do that.

Great fucking logic. A player shooting 48% taking all the shots and still maintaining a higher FG% than most of these bums with the exception of Mike Miller, whose percentages got bumped up because of early season play and not when Blatche was the best player on the team. Oh dear, who should he have passed the ball to? Keep shooting 3s, Wizards, I mean the percentage isn't going to drop when you just keep on chucking them. Please pass the ball to your teammates next time, Blatche, they could be more efficient if you just passed them the ball.

[JamStone]

Depends what your definitions of "young" and "superstar" are.

But I think Gerald Wallace could be one. He probably will never be a superstar either, but he's a really good player who does a lot of things well, especially things that other star players don't do.

[Dunc n Dave]

Apparently, you don't get that only shooting past 50% gets you a hotspot. Almost no nba player shoots over 50% from mid range. Blatche did a good job maintaining around 40% as the first option on his team. He has a mid-range game which he doesn't use often, you can see the percentages, he has it.
Sure he does, that's why he was 284th is spot up shooting efficiency.... Being worse than 78.8% of the NBA players at spot up shooting DEFINITELY means you have a midrange game.:rolleyes Or do you think he "spots up" for open jumpers from 4 feet away?


Would you mind naming the Wizards players who shoot a higher percentage than Blatche? 43% > 39% and that was Blatche's worst month.
Pot, meet kettle. 39% was Lopez's worst month too. Lopez shot 58% in February on 13 shots a game; his best month. Blatche's best month was also February where he shot 55% on 16 shots a game. See my point, no... of course not.


You keep saying he shot those shots out of necessity and then you tell me someone else could take the shots (kept asking who, tell me who?), Brook Lopez didn't shoot those 12 shots out of necessity yet had a 39% to account for, which sucks. Blatche shot 48% when he started and here were his teammates. Wonder who has ADD and clinging on to that 43% for his dear life.
58% on 13 shots in Feb is better than 55% on 16 shots in Feb. Try to spin that one...

And you do realize Harris missed a big chunk of the year (as did many Nets players) while Lopez had to carry the team? Maybe not to the extent of Blatche, but he did play all 82 games while Harris, Lee, and Jianlin (his Top 3 scoring teammates) missed a combined 59 games last year.


Mike Miller: 50.1% (48% from 3) Only guy capable of making shots. How about we give him the ball like Joe Johnson and let him produce, maybe that will work.
Al Thornton: 46.3% (35.3% from 3)
Randy Foye: 41.4% (34.6% from 3)
Nick Young: 41.8% (40.6% from 3)
Earl Boykins: 42.7% (31.7% from 3)
Javale McGee: 50.8% (Maybe Blatche should have passed to a man with no post game at all and let him throw shots up.)
Shaun Livingston: 53.5% (0% from 3) Pass the ball to him and let him run some plays. It would be hilarious when he doesn't have the ability to do that.
33% from 3 is the same as 50% from 2. Blatche was being double teamed as the man and STILL throwing up bad shots instead of finding open teammates. And don't try to throw his assist #'s at me. If you look at the splits, he had an abnormally high amount of assists (5.1)over the last 7 games which skewed his season numbers. Before April, he averaged 2.9 in March, 2.4 in February, and 1.1 in January.


Great fucking logic. A player shooting 48% taking all the shots and still maintaining a higher FG% than most of these bums with the exception of Mike Miller, whose percentages got bumped up because of early season play and not when Blatche was the best player on the team. Oh dear, who should he have passed the ball to? Keep shooting 3s, Wizards, I mean the percentage isn't going to drop when you just keep on chucking them. Please pass the ball to your teammates next time, Blatche, they could be more efficient if you just passed them the ball.

Passing to open teammates gets you a higher percentage shot. I'll take an open 3 from Miller or Young over a fadeaway from Blatche over a double team ANY DAY. When your percentages keep dropping the longer you start, you are no longer taking good shots, especially as a post player. Normally as a guy gets doubled MORE he shoots LESS (see Duncan as an example). With Blatche it was the opposite, he kept shooting even more. I'll give him credit though, he must have figured something out in April. Seeing how poorly he was shooting then, he realized that he can't keep forcing those shots that were no longer open like they were in February and he needed to trust his teammates to make shots when he's doubled. He started doing that and his assists skyrocketed. Hopefully he'll learn something from that experience. I'm leaning more toward it being a 7 game anomaly.

[Chieflion]

It is not as if Gilbert Arenas missed plenty of games due to suspension, you pinned excuses for Lopez's failures while not mentioning Arenas' suspension, if he played, it would have helped the team and relieve Blatche from such heavy workload. Great open 3s from Miller and Young. Thank goodness they didn't suck when Blatche was passing the ball to them. Oh wait, they did, which explains the low assist stats when Blatche first became the top dog. When Blatche started to find open teammates, he already established himself as a ridiculously good scorer that people have to double team him, so he could have found his teammates for easy looks at the rim when Saunders moved him to the high post. That was when his FG% dipped.

[Dunc n Dave]

It is not as if Gilbert Arenas missed plenty of games due to suspension, you pinned excuses for Lopez's failures while not mentioning Arenas' suspension, if he played, it would have helped the team and relieve Blatche from such heavy workload. Great open 3s from Miller and Young. Thank goodness they didn't suck when Blatche was passing the ball to them. Oh wait, they did, which explains the low assist stats when Blatche first became the top dog. When Blatche started to find open teammates, he already established himself as a ridiculously good scorer that people have to double team him, so he could have found his teammates for easy looks at the rim when Saunders moved him to the high post. That was when his FG% dipped.

:lol If Arenas played, there's no way Blatche would have averaged 20 ppg, even as a starter. The guy was a BLACK HOLE last year. A genuine BALL STOPPER, Allen Iverson style. Sure he averaged 6-7 assists but the guy was also averaging 20 shots a game in December and January.

That's just it, the only reason Blatche had such a good half year was because Option 1 (Arenas) was suspended, Options 2, 3, and 4 (Butler, Jamison, and Haywood) were traded, and Option 2a (Josh Howard) had a season ending injury shortly after joining the Wizards. Blatche will now be the 4th option again, 3rd AT BEST if Wall sacrifices shots for assists.

There's no way Josh Howard will sacrifice shots for Blatche since he signed a 1 year deal, he's playing on a bad team for a fat contract next summer from another team. And we already know about Arenas's shot happy ass. Not enough shots to go around for Blatche to get 16-19 shots a game AGAIN.

[Chieflion]

Blatche is option 2 after Arenas. You can keep thinking Josh Howard is going to take more shots than Blatche because that's not happening because he won't be getting those minutes to surpass Blatche. You also called Haywood, another guy who can't create his own shot a 4th option when Blatche outplayed him the entire time he as with the Wizards off the bench.

Plus, if Arenas get the Wizards pissed one more time, he goes straight to the trash can. Again, I don't see Derrick Rose taking away shots from Ben Gordon so I don't see how Blatche won't be the beneficiary of Wall's passing.

All I know is that Blatche took a lot of shots the last half of the season and played very well. I wasn't judging them by gauging their future production. I was doing judging now because I don't know the future.

You keep telling me what you think the future will be. I will stick to Blatche's production last season. All I know is that Blatche is better than Howard.

[Dunc n Dave]

Blatche is option 2 after Arenas. You can keep thinking Josh Howard is going to take more shots than Blatche because that's not happening because he won't be getting those minutes to surpass Blatche. You also called Haywood, another guy who can't create his own shot a 4th option when Blatche outplayed him the entire time he as with the Wizards off the bench.

Plus, if Arenas get the Wizards pissed one more time, he goes straight to the trash can. Again, I don't see Derrick Rose taking away shots from Ben Gordon so I don't see how Blatche won't be the beneficiary of Wall's passing.

All I know is that Blatche took a lot of shots the last half of the season and played very well. I wasn't judging them by gauging their future production. I was doing judging now because I don't know the future.

You keep telling me what you think the future will be. I will stick to Blatche's production last season. All I know is that Blatche is better than Howard.

You can't realistically expect the same production from Blatche this season as he had last season. That's like all the Spurs fans expecting RJ to come in and score 19 ppg for the Spurs just because he did it the previous season on an injury depleted Milwaukee team (Bogut, Redd, etc all out for LONG stretches). It just ain't gonna happen with the upgrade in players around him from one year to the next.

And Blatche may be more talented than Howard at this point in his career, but Howard is in a contract year and looking to impress teams with his numbers. Don't underestimate that little tidbit when it comes to who gets more shots. When guys are looking to get paid, they tend to become more selfish and stat-watch, and if the Wiz start looking like they won't make the playoffs you can expect Howard to start firing away to pad those stats.

And who is gonna take minutes away from Howard? He's the starting SF on that team. Hinrich will take minutes (and shots) from Arenas and Wall, but not Howard. The Wizards also have guys like Al Thornton, Hilton Armstrong, Yi Jianlin, and McGee that will steal a few minutes from Blatche this year in the low block. Only one I can see playing some SF for them is Thornton, but he'll probably mostly play PF.

And you keep bringing up Ben Gordon, yet forgetting he came off the bench mainly for the Bulls. I haven't looked at the #'s but I'd bet a huge chunk of Gordon's points came while Rose was resting on the bench. The Bulls used Gordon the same way the Spurs have used Manu; put your weaker offensive players in the game with him and let him carry the team while the other scorers rest on the bench.

[Chieflion]

Figures you would bring up that useless piece of trash who would not play by the name of Hilton Armstrong. Al Thornton would be the back-up SF. Javale McGee isn't going to take shots away from Blatche, are you kidding me? Yi Jianlian doesn't create his own offense a lot, he relies on others to get it to him. Kevin Seraphin, the Wizards draft pick would be the one getting the minutes at center backing up McGee, and he isn't that skilled and is still quite raw. Blatche's efficiency gets to increase with a playmaker at the perimeter. Even if he gets slightly lesser shots, the efficiency makes up for it.

The only post option for the Wizards is Andray Blatche, so he is going to get his fair share of touches called by the coach to mix things up and get easy baskets. If his efficiency goes up, his production would stay relatively the same.

Your assumption of Josh Howard chucking up shots is again, just your assumption. He may do it, but he will get benched. You keep saying he is option 2a yet not account for his injury concerns.

[ohmwrecker]

Has anybody mentioned James Harden? Fear the beard!