why is it hard to find a Bowen?

[cantthinkofanything]

What makes it so hard to find a Bruce Bown?

It would seem that hundreds of players would have the athletic ability and body type suited to playing the kind of lock down D that Bruce did. What separated him from the rest? Was it purely determination and work ethic?
Or was there some physical subtlety that gave him this rare ability? Or was it a combined case of Bruce being on the right team with the right players behind him? Or is it all of the above?

All I know is that no one has come close to begin able to do what he did with the Spurs. Are there any other comperable players in the league right now?

[ajballer4]

Hes one of a kind. Thats why

[kaji157]

Because he was the most consistent perimeter defender for about 4 years in this league.
And consistency i the hardest to find.

[Cane]

What makes it so hard to find a Bruce Bown?

It would seem that hundreds of players would have the athletic ability and body type suited to playing the kind of lock down D that Bruce did. What separated him from the rest? Was it purely determination and work ethic?
Or was there some physica subtllety hat gave him this rare ability? Or was it a combined case of Bruce being on the right team with the right players behind him? Or is it all of the above?

All I know is that no one has come close to begin able to do what he did with the Spurs. Are there any other comperable players in the league right now?

All of the above. Not only was his work ethic, defense, and corner 3 point shooting some of the best the NBA has seen but he was also as durable as they come. He was also a professional and didn't get involved with stupid shit off the court.

Closest player to him nowadays would be Ron Artest but he's not as good of a corner 3 point shooter and he's a headcase; but Bowen wasn't as good of an overall scorer. A healthy Shane Battier and Raja Bell might be other lesser players to compare him to.

[SA210]

Because Defense isn't as popular as offense these days.

[cnyc3]

Work Ethic, IQ, Ego

[SA210]

Work Ethic, IQ, Ego

[ducks]

not hard just go to sa and go to his house
there bowen is

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

Physically speaking he doesn't sound like much of a specimen in terms of your average NBA athlete. The thing that made Bowen so special is that he was playing heavy minutes chasing top flight scorers in this 30's, around the time that most guys wear and tear are catching up with them. He basically managed to do what people always joked about doing with Oberto's brain in Mahinmi's body: he had a brain with a decade's worth of inside knowledge and tricks in a somehow timeless body that seemed immune to fatigue and injury.

And even if that were easy to duplicate, I wonder just how far anyone could get playing Bowen's brand of D in this day and age without ending up in foul trouble quickly.

[Blackjack]

If you know how to use Google ...

http://www.nba.com/media/rockets/bowerninside.jpg

Not so hard.

[Russ]

Because Bowen invented Bowen -- he created his own job. It's not his ability that defined Bowen, but his creativity.

Go to any big organization and there is someone who created his or her own job and then made him(her)self indispensible. It's not their ability to do their job that made them successful but their ability to create a position that only they can fill. And no matter how easy and obvious that position seems in retrospect, no one is ever able to fill it once its creator leaves.

[SA210]

He was robbed of many DPOY awards.

:pctoss

[mountainballer]

http://media.herald-dispatch.com/blog/tuned/uploaded_images/BL--Julie-Bowen--Craig-Sjodin-745586.jpg

because she is damn hot and sure can defend everyone.
(still can't see why Boston traded her out of town)

[hater]

A Rottweiler in a human body.

Besides everything mentioned, don't forget Bowen's durabililty. Dude was made of rock.

there is no such player in the nba right now and won't be for a while. Maybe Rodman was a similar player. Artest has some things but not the IQ.

[duhoh]

closest guy ATM is Battier IMO

[hater]

closest guy ATM is Battier IMO

Battier is too nice guy. "excuse me sir, can I put my hand on your back?"

Bowen made enemies while playing in the NBA. he didn't give a fuck

[MarCowMar]

More players should take up the Bikram Yoga.

[tdunk21]

spurs FO has done a good job throughout the years in finding players like bowen, manu, tony, hill.....imo spurs type players are hard to find...u cant find another tim duncan with the same fundamentals, defense and leadership...in the same way its very hard to find a replacement for bowen....

[in2deep]

rkdC31DZ9Ow

[in2deep]

^ lmao Duncan's face

[elemento]

Mental toughness

Nowadays, 90% of the players are pussies

[Juanobili]

That's an insult to Bowen, Come on, we all know the dude was special.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Because Bruce is not of this world...............duh!

http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww37/eddietheaggie2010/abowenpredator.jpg

[BadMotorscooter]

Same reason its hard to find another Duncan, or another Peyton Manning in football, or another Albert Pujols in baseball. There are many players who have the same height, same weight, talent,......but many lack the will and heart it takes to rise above the rest.


And comparable players today to Bowen would be Gerald Wallace. A great lockdown defender and but alot better on the offensive end than Bruce was. His talent is greatly wasted in Charolette.

[NRHector]

offense= :greedy, defense= :lobt:

[DesignatedT]

lol at that video.

[BronxCowboy]

I think what set Bowen apart was is intelligence, determination, focus, and keen perception. He could read his opponent like none other and was a master of head games while keeping his own. Minds like his are one in a million. Minds like his attached to a 6'7" physically fit frame with 7' arms are one in 6 billion.

[Bruno]

Gee could end up as a damn good defensive perimeter player. He won't be close to Bruce level but at the same time, there isn't a single player in the NBA who is close to Bruce level.

[howbouthemspurs]

What he cared about more than stats was winning and demoralizing the best players on other teams! That was his mission and he was the best at it! His glory came when lifted that trophy and put on that ring!

[cornbread]

Today's players want to take members of the other team to dinner and get a VIP table together at the club. Bruce Bowen just wants to kick people in the face. That's something you can't be taught.

[ChuckD]

You people are only looking at half the equation.

a) it's hard to find a lock down defender
b) it's hard, these days, to find a 39% 3 point shooter.

Now, try to find both in one player.

[K-State Spur]

the idea that any athlete with the will to can be a bowen-esque defender is an extreme disservice to Bruce. the guy had lightning quick feet, great reaction time, and was as intelligent/disciplined as you will find in a perimeter defender.

asking why it is so hard to find the best perimeter defender in the league for almost a full decade is a question that provides it's own answer.

[slick'81]

You people are only looking at half the equation.

a) it's hard to find a lock down defender
b) it's hard, these days, to find a 39% 3 point shooter.

Now, try to find both in one player.

exactly it doesn't exists and may not again

[beachwood]

Work Ethic, IQ, Ego

This.

Bowen was a model of consistency and professionalism.

[lotr1trekkie]

Paul Silas is as close at it gets to BB. He understood his role and executed it. Most posters are too young to remember PS. I guess these types of players come along rarely. We live in an era where O is God. Bruce may have been the last of the buffaloes.

[sefant77]

Thabo is the closest to a "new" Bowen.

[Cant_Be_Faded]

Bowen had two things you cannot teach or learn

1) A relentless work ethic

2) He was clutch.

[Man In Black]

Paul Silas is as close at it gets to BB. He understood his role and executed it. Most posters are too young to remember PS. I guess these types of players come along rarely. We live in an era where O is God. Bruce may have been the last of the buffaloes.
While I agree with the sentiment that Paul Silas understood his role and executed, his role is one that DeJuan Blair could embody. Physical defense, rebound like a mother, and a 2 handed outlet pass that leads to an easy fast break.

I love what Bruce did but to me, I would prefer Sidney Moncrief, he played lockdown defense and his scoring wasn't just confined to the corners, he had enough skill and range to attack from anywhere.
http://www.nba.com/history/players/moncrief_bio.html

[Bito Corleone]

Bowen made enemies while playing in the NBA. he didn't give a fuck

This.


Today's players want to take members of the other team to dinner and get a VIP table together at the club. Bruce Bowen just wants to kick people in the face. That's something you can't be taught.

This!

[gospursgojas]

http://media.herald-dispatch.com/blog/tuned/uploaded_images/BL--Julie-Bowen--Craig-Sjodin-745586.jpg

because she is damn hot and sure can defend everyone.
(still can't see why Boston traded her out of town)

Have you not seen Modern Family? Funniest show on television.

Oh yeah and Bruce Bowen is a 1 of a kind

[MmP]

we're going nowhere without a stopper IMHO

[will_spurs]

You people are only looking at half the equation.

a) it's hard to find a lock down defender
b) it's hard, these days, to find a 39% 3 point shooter.

Now, try to find both in one player.

And I think you're also looking at only half of the equation. The other half is to find such player and get him to agree to be paid in the $3-4 million per year range. The Spurs philosophy has spread in the league (along with the members of the Spurs FO) and lockdown defenders are more and more valued. FOs around the league understand that despite the somtimes unappealing box score, these guys can be virtually impossible to replace, and their trade demands become unrealistic.

A guy like Pietrus, who is really quite good at one-to-one defense and doesn't even shoot the 3 as well as Bowen did, is already getting paid $5.5 million a year by the Magic (and as far as we can tell, they are not letting him go for cheap).

A guy like Batum who is probably Bowen's reincarnation (good defender and .387 career 3-pt shooting and .409 last year actually, with only 2 years under his belt and at the age of 21) is still being paid nothing because of the rookie scale, but Portland has already hinted that they wouldn't let him go if the other team doesn't put a star on the table.

In short, even though Bowen's contributions were nothing short of amazing for the Spurs, what was even more exceptional, and made everything possible to be honest, was to get such a guy for so cheap. THAT is not going to happen again any time soon.

[Austin_Toros]

Also, Bowen was a "dirty" player. At least that's what Ray Allen thought.

[Brazil]

A guy like Batum who is probably Bowen's reincarnation (good defender and .387 career 3-pt shooting and .409 last year actually, with only 2 years under his belt and at the age of 21) is still being paid nothing because of the rookie scale, but Portland has already hinted that they wouldn't let him go if the other team doesn't put a star on the table.



+1

I was quite surprised nobody mentionned him before. Batum is IMO THE young player nowadays who has the potential to be bowenesque with a lot more Offensive upside than Bruce.
The issue with Batum is his health, Bruce was just a machine, Batum seems to be fragile. On top of that I don't think he has the killer/dirty or whatever you name it instint of Bruce

[lotr1trekkie]

Bruce was one of those players you hated if he were again you but love if he played with you. Foxhole kind of a player. Hoping his # gets retired soon.

[SenorSpur]

Thabo is the closest to a "new" Bowen.

There it is. Sefalosha is widely considered to be the best perimeter defender in the NBA at this time. And even he falls short of the Bowen barometer.

[SenorSpur]

It's tough to find another player of Bowen's skill set and abilities because he was a very unique and unusual player. As someone stated earlier in the thread, Bowen was a self-made player and virtually invented a role for himself. He was smart enough to realize that the NBA had many guys that could score and very few that could defend. He figured out a way to survive in the NBA and worked and willed himself into creating a niche for himself.

Bowen's defensive abilities were as dominant as a shutdown cornerback in pro football. Bowen affect on the opposing team was akin to that of say a Deion Sanders or Darelle Reavis. A shutdown cornerback can literally take away half the field by blanking the opposition's best receiver.

Bowen pretty much did the same, but in his case, he often took the opposition's best perimeter scorer completely out of the game. In fact, the only player that I've ever seen have continuous success against Bowen was LeBron. It was a total mismatch because James was simply too big and too strong. James against just about eveyone is a total mismatch. While Bowen had some success against Kobe over the years, he never had much success trying to defend James one-on-one.

Anyway, as hard as it is to find shutdown cornerbacks in the NFL, so it is with finding lockdown perimeter defenders in the NBA. It takes a combination of skillset, physique, mentality and desire in order to be successful at both.

[ajh18]

The problem with finding "another Bowen" isn't finding someone who can do any particular thing as well as he did. It's about finding someone who can do ALL of those things at the level Bruce did.

Physical Ability: Bruce had the height, length, and footspeed to actually inhibit players at three different positions. The only thing he didn't have physically was weight, which is why some of the only guys he struggled with were the big, physical two's and three's (think Bonzi Wells).

Fundamentals: Bruce played fundamentally sound defense. Positioning, angles, not going for blocks or steals except how the situation dictates. This is why someone like Chris Paul, who gets a ton of steals, or Marcus Camby, who gets a lot of blocks, will never be truly elite defenders... because they get these stats by taking risks rather than playing fundamentally sound basketball.

Basketball IQ: Bowen had the mental makeup and intelligence to enhance his physical gifts and fundamentals. He would get inside other players' heads, finding something that irritated them and doing it over and over (Dennis Rodman was a master at this). He would study specific players for tendencies, and take them out of their comfort zones, by making them take the shots they are least accustomed to (Battier tries to do this, too). He would apply every trick, legal and illegal, that he could use to gain an edge over another player (kind of like Manu does on the offensive end).

Mental Fortitude: Unlike Ron Artest, Bowen had the mental makeup where other players couldn't get in HIS head. Also, if he failed to shut someone down or they scored on a particular possession, it wouldn't change his level of effort. Bowen would come at you 100%, all the time, never getting frustrated or letting up. He was relentless. Plus, few players would be happy being known only for their defense.

The Spurs System: All of those factors would have made Bowen a great defender on any team. But he was better on the Spurs, because we have a system that allowed Bowen to devote more of his energy to defense than almost any other system in the league would have. Our offense still utilized and needed Bowen's greatest strength offensively: three point shooting, particularly from the corner. But the role we needed him for on offense required little energy relative to most starting-player-playing-time roles on most teams.

Finding any one of those things is easy. Finding two or three is hard. Finding all of them together, is almost impossible.

[Agloco]

What makes it so hard to find a Bruce Bown?

It would seem that hundreds of players would have the athletic ability and body type suited to playing the kind of lock down D that Bruce did. What separated him from the rest? Was it purely determination and work ethic?
Or was there some physical subtlety that gave him this rare ability? Or was it a combined case of Bruce being on the right team with the right players behind him? Or is it all of the above?

All I know is that no one has come close to begin able to do what he did with the Spurs. Are there any other comperable players in the league right now?

Basketball IQ.

Guys like Horry and Bowen you can't replace. They're as rare as the MJs and Magics of the NBA.

[analyzed]

Watching the current world championships. A player who reminds me of Bowen and can develop into a bowen type, is New Zealand's Thomas ABERCROMBIES : Here is a profile link
http://turkey2010.fiba.com/pages/eng/fe/10/fwcm/player/p/eid/4728/pid/51007/rid//sid/4728/tid/337/profile.html

As a small forward he has the size 6' 7" athleticim , defensive fundamentals but more importantly he has the mental discipline to play consistent defense. I know he dosen't have the resume (Not from a big college) or anything. But din't Bowen come from the same situation. I've been following this guy and I think he could be a find.

[ohmwrecker]

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=160074

It's time to move on. The Spurs are not going to just find another Bruce Bowen. They are going to have to maximize the talent that they have and amp up the team defense with tighter rotations.

The thing that made Bruce special was his work ethic and individual defensive focus. He got the most out of his abilities and he didn't need anyone riding his ass to get him to work. He was fortunate to land on the Spurs where his strengths were magnified and his deficiencies did not impact the team in a negative way. It was serendipitous to say the least.

[Dalamar_the_Dark]

Defense isnt just about having an athletic body. Its about as some people mentioned, IQ etc... but also basketball smarts and focus. A lot of players have high ceilings but cant focus for a full game. If you want to play good defense, your focus has to be damn good. If you play D, you will understand what I mean. Bowen was always focused and thats why he was better than Artest cause Artest is a headcase waiting to happen.

Bowen also had basketball smarts. He knew how to work the referees and get into the head of his opponents. But imho, Rodman was better at this than Bowen. That was why imho, Rodman is a much better all round defender than Bowen. Bowen was a perimeter defender. Rodman could defend the perimeter but also the post. Rodman defended Shaq in his prime, defended Malone in his prime etc.... all the while losing out in terms of height and size but having excellent positioning and brains.

Today's players are just concerned about being the next Jordan, the next Kobe or the next LBJ. Nobody likes to be the muck up guy cleaning up the shit by sacrificing his body doing the dirty work.

Thats why you dont find Bowens' and Rodmans' around easily cause young kids nowadays model their game differently and cause the scouts only notice the guy who scores and dishes out assists and rebounds.

[Em-City]

as it was mentioned before, Thabo Sefolosha (http://newsok.com/thabo-sefolosha-smothers-la/article/3449609?custom_click=lead_story_title) is as close as it gets right now... although he's a guard, not a forward.

[Trill Clinton]

Dude was one of a kind. You'll find a unicorn be you find another Bowen.

[howbouthemspurs]

He was one of the hardest working athletes in all of sports. This guy brought it every day and no one can ever compare to him! Bowen embodies everything that has to do with the spurs!

[admiralsnackbar]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't he a handful of games away from setting an NBA record for most consecutive starts (ie no injuries) in the NBA before he received a bullshit suspension?

[JWest596]

The problem with finding "another Bowen" isn't finding someone who can do any particular thing as well as he did. It's about finding someone who can do ALL of those things at the level Bruce did.

Physical Ability: Bruce had the height, length, and footspeed to actually inhibit players at three different positions. The only thing he didn't have physically was weight, which is why some of the only guys he struggled with were the big, physical two's and three's (think Bonzi Wells).

Fundamentals: Bruce played fundamentally sound defense. Positioning, angles, not going for blocks or steals except how the situation dictates. This is why someone like Chris Paul, who gets a ton of steals, or Marcus Camby, who gets a lot of blocks, will never be truly elite defenders... because they get these stats by taking risks rather than playing fundamentally sound basketball.

Basketball IQ: Bowen had the mental makeup and intelligence to enhance his physical gifts and fundamentals. He would get inside other players' heads, finding something that irritated them and doing it over and over (Dennis Rodman was a master at this). He would study specific players for tendencies, and take them out of their comfort zones, by making them take the shots they are least accustomed to (Battier tries to do this, too). He would apply every trick, legal and illegal, that he could use to gain an edge over another player (kind of like Manu does on the offensive end).

Mental Fortitude: Unlike Ron Artest, Bowen had the mental makeup where other players couldn't get in HIS head. Also, if he failed to shut someone down or they scored on a particular possession, it wouldn't change his level of effort. Bowen would come at you 100%, all the time, never getting frustrated or letting up. He was relentless. Plus, few players would be happy being known only for their defense.

The Spurs System: All of those factors would have made Bowen a great defender on any team. But he was better on the Spurs, because we have a system that allowed Bowen to devote more of his energy to defense than almost any other system in the league would have. Our offense still utilized and needed Bowen's greatest strength offensively: three point shooting, particularly from the corner. But the role we needed him for on offense required little energy relative to most starting-player-playing-time roles on most teams.

Finding any one of those things is easy. Finding two or three is hard. Finding all of them together, is almost impossible.

This.


Serious lock down defensive basketball as a team or as an individual is extremely hard unselfish unique attitude, unappreciated work at practice, and a during a game. It is unglamorous, RARE, unappreciated and "boring" to the public. It goes against much what is taught and believed in school and in the street. The NBA would die on the vine over time if basketball dominated and achieved this type of majority game reality. The rules are geared toward offense, the game highlights on ESPN aren't interested. He kept his opponent out of them.

I think Bowen's greatest gift on defense was his subtlety or the ref's appreciation in doing his job. Kobe Bryant respected Bowen and challenged/judge himself against Bowen while everybody else whined and bitched about Bruce's defense and their own poor performance because of him. Kobe won out but he rarely got a gift and Bowen won a few times when Kobe was in his youth. Hos corner 3 shot was a gift he developed that kept him in the game as well. And nobody mindf---ked and frustrated a player on defense like Bowen. Pejoratives explode when his name or career is discussed to this day.

A rare breed with IQ, a defensive skill set that is only learned with superb durability.

And he got robbed for DPOY far too often. Maybe it was the price he payed to be Bruce Bowen.

[admiralsnackbar]

And he got robbed for DPOY far too often. Maybe it was the price he payed to be Bruce Bowen.

I honestly believe his exclusion from the DPOY honor was a direct reflection of his salary. All the DPOYs I can think of made good money and had marquee value. Bruce was chronically underpaid and constitutionally opposed to self-promotion.

[SA210]

Dude was one of a kind. You'll find a unicorn be you find another Bowen.

[SA210]

This.


Serious lock down defensive basketball as a team or as an individual is extremely hard unselfish unique attitude, unappreciated work at practice, and a during a game. It is unglamorous, RARE, unappreciated and "boring" to the public. It goes against much what is taught and believed in school and in the street. The NBA would die on the vine over time if basketball dominated and achieved this type of majority game reality. The rules are geared toward offense, the game highlights on ESPN aren't interested. He kept his opponent out of them.

I think Bowen's greatest gift on defense was his subtlety or the ref's appreciation in doing his job. Kobe Bryant respected Bowen and challenged/judge himself against Bowen while everybody else whined and bitched about Bruce's defense and their own poor performance because of him. Kobe won out but he rarely got a gift and Bowen won a few times when Kobe was in his youth. Hos corner 3 shot was a gift he developed that kept him in the game as well. And nobody mindf---ked and frustrated a player on defense like Bowen. Pejoratives explode when his name or career is discussed to this day.

A rare breed with IQ, a defensive skill set that is only learned with superb durability.

And he got robbed for DPOY far too often. Maybe it was the price he payed to be Bruce Bowen.

I've been saying this for years. I can't believe how badass he was and they robbed him every damn year. Those bastards!

[superbigtime]

Bruce was a special player. Lockdown tenacious defense and a 3 pointer that you could count on. High IQ in the basketball world and real world too. Good teammate and good citizen with lots of humor. Damn I miss Bruce Bowen. He should have gotten DPOY twice if not once. I sincerely hope the Spurs retire his number.

[silk]

I'm far from a Parket Hater, but the big 3 in 2K5 was actually Duncan-Manu-Bowen,

Defense, and clutch shooting

[Obstructed_View]

Because Bruce is not of this world...............duh!

http://i703.photobucket.com/albums/ww37/eddietheaggie2010/abowenpredator.jpg

I love seeing my own pictures pop back up years later!

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q228/GeneralPurpose/Spurstalk/BowenPred.jpg

[Spurs7794]

I'm far from a Parket Hater, but the big 3 in 2K5 was actually Duncan-Manu-Bowen,

Defense, and clutch shooting


Bowen was at his most ruthless that year...game 3 against Seattle with the Spurs down 1 with 3 seconds left, Bowen harrassed the shit outa Ray Allen into an airball...then said something to Ray Allen. Allen's response to get back at him was to say....FUCK YOU. (you can see him mouth it on ESPN). Which, when I hear that in response to any sort of trashtalk, I interpret as "you are so far in my head and i cant stand it...just leave me alone."

[bigbendbruisebrother]

Bruce had the ability to make appendixes like Ray Allen and Vince Carter implode. Technically, he was a near perfect defender, and his corner 3 was clutch until 2008 when his game fell off. But his real skill was burrowing under the skins of his opponents. Plus, he kicked Wally Szczerbiak in the face as the prick attempted a 3. I would wager to guess that very few NBA players have been kicked in the face while maneuvering to shoot a jumper, so that racks massive bonus points.

[GSH]

What makes it so hard to find a Bruce Bown?

It would seem that hundreds of players would have the athletic ability and body type suited to playing the kind of lock down D that Bruce did.

All I know is that no one has come close to begin able to do what he did with the Spurs. Are there any other comperable players in the league right now?


It's not the athletic ability, it's the desire. Players with that kind of athleticism want to be in highlight reels, and get endorsements. Defense doesn't sell Gatorade.

The closest thing to Bruce was probably Raja Bell, and Bell is just 6'5" compared to 6'7" for Bowen. Bowen had great lateral movement for a guy that tall. I don't know if Bell can still cut it as a lock-up defender, but he can still put up 10-12 points per game. The Jazz just signed him to a 3 year deal for about $3M per.

A couple of seasons ago there was a guy who was supposed to be the next Bruce Bowen. His name was Ime Udoka, and we all know how that worked out. I'm not so sure that there really are other players out there who could do what Bruce did. He was one of a kind.

One other thing that nobody else has mentioned: if there were another player exactly like Bowen in the league, I don't think the league would give him an opportunity to defend like Bruce did. They were sending messages the last couple of seasons that Bruce played. (Especially that bullshit call in Washington that ruined Bruce's consecutive start streak.) Highlight reel plays sell tickets and jerseys, and that benefits the whole league. Locking down franchise players wins championships, and that just benefits the winning team.

[bejanicek]

I found one..... but it was actually Bruce Bowen. He was on my southwest flight home from Phoneix last friday. He had just got done playing Torrey Pines golf course. Chatted with him briefly waiting for luggage, pretty cool!! Super nice. Wish he still played for spurs, miss his defending.