Kevin Durant or Dirk Nowitzki

[picc84]

Better player.

Both are offensive machines, don't really do that much else, but they're great at what they do.

This is not who do you take to start a franchise now, thats obviously the younger Durant. Who is the better player currently?

[tlongII]

I'll take Durant because he's a better ball-handler.

[Lukor]

I'll take Durant because he's a better ball-handler.

Dirk averaged 1.8 turnovers per game last year, KD 3.3. You might wanna rethink your statement.
I'd take Dirk because he's more unguardable than KD, but KD obviously has a much brighter future ahead.

[DAF86]

If Dirk was a SF he would be a lot more valuable, as a bigman he creates some very important problems for his own team.

[BRHornet45]

Oh Durant by far. Son that's like trying to compare Michael Jordan to Luke Longley.

[Giuseppe]

Couple a cupcakes.

[phxspurfan]

Durant b/c he's 6'11" and talented like me.

[BlackSwordsMan]

dirk cause hes the last great white player of this league
god bless

[Ashy Larry]

Durant. More upside. It's all downhill for Dirk.

[jason54858]

This is a stupid, Durant is younger with better upside right. I love Dirk but he is 32 and will decline soon. Its like asking who would rather have Kevin Garnet or John Wall?

[jason54858]

Oh Durant by far. Son that's like trying to compare Michael Jordan to Luke Longley.

Dump comment of the day. I knew I was going to find one.:lol

[Kevin Durant 35]

Durant and it's not even close.

[picc84]

This is not who do you take to start a franchise now, thats obviously the younger Durant. Who is the better player currently?

[jason54858]

If Dirk was a SF he would be a lot more valuable, as a bigman he creates some very important problems for his own team.

What about defense? Dirk would get beat every play playing against a quicker SF like a Durant or all the other starting small forwards in the league and probably also the ones who play on the bench to.

[21_Blessings]

Durant has morphed into a solid defender and he's already a more versatile scorer.

[JamStone]

This is tough actually.

The question is asking right now who is better. I'd probably still say Dirk but it's close. Durant has evolved into a complete beast of a scorer. I underestimated his abilities a few years ago, but I don't anymore. With Dirk starting his decline, I think there's a very good argument that Durant has passed him. I do think Dirk gets shitted on for his defense when he has become an adequate defender. Not great, never will be, but he isn't a horrible defender, imo. What was more surprising about Dirk's decline last season was he became an Amare-like rebounder at PF. There's no reason Dirk at 7-feet tall and fairly quick and athletic playing big minutes shouldn't be pulling down 9 rpg. I guess having more help on his team for rebounding, with Haywood and Damp, Marion being a very good defender for his size and position, and Kidd and Butler very good rebounders from the perimeter played a role in his rebounding numbers dropping. I still would like to see him closer to 9-10 rpg since he was still playing 37+ minutes a game.

Durant still has room to grow and is already a superstar or at least on the cusp of superstardom. I think his play will continue to improve, but his first round playoff performance showed he has a ways to go still. He scored and he had that one ridiculous rebounding game, but he also shot 35% from the field for the series. He even shot 5-for-23 in the series deciding game 6. That's something other "superstar" players get crucified for. To me, it means he's still got a ways to go. Dirk gets shitted on for a couple choking performances in the Finals and against Golden State, but I've also seen Dirk nut up and play like a beast in the playoffs and I think for the criticism he takes for being soft he's actually a pretty tough s.o.b.

We're talking about today, I'll still take Dirk but it's close. That could change very soon because it's almost a toss-up with Durant already.

[Basketball Jones]

Durant. no contest

[greyforest]

the fuck kinda thread is this?

not a very fair comparison

[slick'81]

lol dirk no but durant is just as good now if not better wont be long before dirk starts to fall off

[jason54858]

This is tough actually.

The question is asking right now who is better. I'd probably still say Dirk but it's close. Durant has evolved into a complete beast of a scorer. I underestimated his abilities a few years ago, but I don't anymore. With Dirk starting his decline, I think there's a very good argument that Durant has passed him. I do think Dirk gets shitted on for his defense when he has become an adequate defender. Not great, never will be, but he isn't a horrible defender, imo. What was more surprising about Dirk's decline last season was he became an Amare-like rebounder at PF. There's no reason Dirk at 7-feet tall and fairly quick and athletic playing big minutes shouldn't be pulling down 9 rpg. I guess having more help on his team for rebounding, with Haywood and Damp, Marion being a very good defender for his size and position, and Kidd and Butler very good rebounders from the perimeter played a role in his rebounding numbers dropping. I still would like to see him closer to 9-10 rpg since he was still playing 37+ minutes a game.

Durant still has room to grow and is already a superstar or at least on the cusp of superstardom. I think his play will continue to improve, but his first round playoff performance showed he has a ways to go still. He scored and he had that one ridiculous rebounding game, but he also shot 35% from the field for the series. He even shot 5-for-23 in the series deciding game 6. That's something other "superstar" players get crucified for. To me, it means he's still got a ways to go. Dirk gets shitted on for a couple choking performances in the Finals and against Golden State, but I've also seen Dirk nut up and play like a beast in the playoffs and I think for the criticism he takes for being soft he's actually a pretty tough s.o.b.

We're talking about today, I'll still take Dirk but it's close. That could change very soon because it's almost a toss-up with Durant already.

No, this is not tough. Yeah Dirk has had a hall of fame career. But why would anybody take a 32 year old aging PF over a 21 year star. Yes, Durant has already reached superstardom.

[8FOR!3]

Kevin Durant. Dirk Nowitzki is a average sized power forward and his defense is worthless, at least Durant is tall. He's longer than most small forwards so that gives him a little advantage on the defensive end. You can't stop neither one of them from getting a shot off though, just have to hope he misses.

[jason54858]

Kevin Durant. Dirk Nowitzki is a average sized power forward and his defense is worthless, at least Durant is tall. He's longer than most small forwards so that gives him a little advantage on the defensive end. You can't stop neither one of them from getting a shot off though, just have to hope he misses.

Besides Tim Duncan (who plays more at center) and Paul Gasol name another 7'0 Power forward.

[8FOR!3]

Besides Tim Duncan (who plays more at center) and Paul Gasol name another 7'0 Power forward.

All of those guys are within about half an inch-1 inch at most to Dirk. And those are just about all starting PF's going into this season. Regardless, he doesn't have a length advantage on hardly any of these names I listed.

Garnett
Favors
Amar'e
Speights
Bosh
Blatche
Nene
Aldridge
Camby
Al Jefferson
Biedrins
Channing Frye
Jason Thompson
Brad Miller

[DAF86]

This is a stupid, Durant is younger with better upside right. I love Dirk but he is 32 and will decline soon. Its like asking who would rather have Kevin Garnet or John Wall?

Right now, Garnett.

[JamStone]

You just named several centers, Nene, Camby, Biedrins, Brad Miller. Al Jefferson will probably play more center than PF as well. Channing Frye plays smaller than Dirk. LaMarcus Aldridge doesn't play all that big either. For all of Amare's athleticism, it would be more accurate to call him average size for a PF than it would be to call Dirk average size. They list Amare at 6'10 but I think he's closer to being between 6'8 and 6'9. His athleticism does help him in that regard. He's got a good 7-foot wingspan but it's not ridiculous like 7'4+ like Nene's wingspan.

Dirk might not the greatest wingspan for his height and he doesn't jump out of the building, but to say he is an "average sized PF" is pretty inaccurate. He's got very good size for an NBA PF, at the very least above average size. Certainly not average size.



Dirk might be on his decline but he's still an elite superstar in the NBA. And he elevated his game last year in the playoffs. Losing to Spurs last playoffs certainly wasn't on Dirk. He balled his ass off. And while I realize it was Durant's first playoff experience, his numbers suffered in the post season, and especially with his scoring which is biggest strength, his shooting numbers were pretty horrible against the Lakers (47.6% FG and 36.5% 3PT in the regular season versus 35.0% FG and 28.6% 3PT in the playoffs). Durant definitely needs to add 10-15 lbs. of muscle mass so that he can start mixing in more drives at the basket without worrying about getting pushed around, and be able to finish in traffic and with contact as well.

There's no doubt that Kevin Durant has a brighter future because of the age differences. And while I believe Dirk is still better, I don't think it's by a lot. We're talking about now, so I still give a slight edge to Dirk. But it certainly could change as soon as this upcoming season.

[DAF86]

What about defense? Dirk would get beat every play playing against a quicker SF like a Durant or all the other starting small forwards in the league and probably also the ones who play on the bench to.

Every team has a wingman or perimeter player that is either a defensive specialist or a spot up three point shooter, you'll always get a chance of hiding Dirk by guarding those kind of guys, while as a bigman even if you put him on a below average offensive player he will still present liabities, for ex. not beign a defensive presence for the rivals that attack the basket and in the offensive end preventing his team from getting 2nd chance oportunities 'cause he always plays in the perimeter, leaving his team a man short under the basket.

[Findog]

I'll take Durant because he's a better ball-handler.

lol Durant is better than Dirk at pretty much everything except taking care of the ball.

[Findog]

Durant has morphed into a solid defender and he's already a more versatile scorer.

Durant's a better player than Dirk now. Better eFG%, better True Shooting %, better rebounding %, higher assist %, better defender. Only thing Dirk is better is in taking care of the ball. Dirk had a lower turnover % last year than Durant.

[arles]

Dirk hands down! He can hurt you in the low post, in the high post, three point line, rebounds, pffff

[sefant77]

If its about the RIGHT NOW (some retards here were of course to stupid to understand OPs question) i will take Dirk.

Dirk could average 30 if he wants and has more unstoppable moves than Durant + experience.

[Latarian Milton]

Better player.

Both are offensive machines, don't really do that much else, but they're great at what they do.

This is not who do you take to start a franchise now, thats obviously the younger Durant. Who is the better player currently?

both are shooting guards in long bodies. currently Dirk may be a pinch better, at least Dirk is more experienced and has won more badges. Dirk cranks out stable outputs every game, even when his team plays bad. Durant however is far more inconsistent and is often affected by team's oscillations.

[Latarian Milton]

lol Durant is better than Dirk at pretty much everything except taking care of the ball.

Jordan is better than Tyson at everything but boxing.

[DAF86]

lol Durant is better than Dirk at pretty much everything except taking care of the ball.

Having less turnovers does not equal better ball-handler, Nash has more turnovers than Dirk do you consider Nowitzki to be a better ball-handler than Nash?

P/S: Weren't you part of the boycott?

[sefant77]

Having less turnovers does not equal better ball-handler, Nash has more turnovers than Dirk do you consider Nowitzki to be a better ball-handler than Nash?



nice try

We are not comparing a PG and SF/PF, we comparing a 6-10 SF and the best shooting PF, so yes, turnovers does equals here whos the better ball-handler

[Latarian Milton]

stats say nothing. Durant's gangstas are much better than the dipshits moseying around Dirk, so Durant faces less pressure on both ends of the floor than Dirk takes. Dirk is just like a stiff phallus vertically erected pointing to the sky, surrounded by countless pubes hairs who can basically give no support.

[sefant77]

stats say nothing. Durant's gangstas are much better than the dipshits moseying around Dirk, so Durant faces less pressure on both ends of the floor than Dirk takes. Dirk is just like a stiff phallus vertically erected pointing to the sky, surrounded by countless pubes hairs who can basically give no support.

is that the wikipedia description of Terry/Howard post 2006?

[DAF86]

nice try

We are not comparing a PG and /SF/PF, we comparing a 6-10 SF and the best shooting PF, so yes, turnovers does equals here whos the better ball-handler

We are comparing basketball players here, the only reason Durant has more turnovers than Dirk is 'cause he handles the ball a lot more than Dirk, BTW Durant has a lot more to do with Nash than Dirk, Nash and Durant are perimeter players, Dirk is a bigman.

[cornbread]

Durant at 21 years old is pretty close to being as good as Dirk in his prime. I'd choose Durant.

[Findog]

Having less turnovers does not equal better ball-handler, Nash has more turnovers than Dirk do you consider Nowitzki to be a better ball-handler than Nash?

P/S: Weren't you part of the boycott?

Dirk has a turnover % of something like 8 percent while using 28 percent of his team's possessions. Durant has a turnover % of 11 percent while using 33 percent of his team's possessions. Dirk is a better ballhander than Durant.

Eh, it's August 27th, I've held out long enough. This thread I just couldn't resist. I

[sefant77]

Findog > DAF86

Lets wait for the next try...

[DAF86]

Dirk has a turnover % of something like 8 percent while using 28 percent of his team's possessions. Durant has a turnover % of 11 percent while using 33 percent of his team's possessions. Dirk is a better ballhander than Durant.

Eh, it's August 27th, I've held out long enough. This thread I just couldn't resist. I

90% of that 28% is Dirk getting the ball in the low/high post and pulling for a fadeaway or shooting right away out of a pick and roll, Dirk doesn't drible the ball nearly as much as Durant does.

[JamStone]

We are comparing basketball players here, the only reason Durant has more turnovers than Dirk is 'cause he handles the ball a lot more than Dirk, BTW Durant has a lot more to do with Nash than Dirk, Nash and Durant are perimeter players, Dirk is a bigman.

Neither are primary ball handlers. Durant might handle the ball a little more than Dirk, their teams' offenses both run through each. As Findog just mentioned, Dirk has a pretty high usage rate as well. But I'd give that more to Dirk's veteran experience and knowing not to be too careless with the ball. Plus I think Durant probably handles the ball more in transition, which would lead to more turnovers.

Durant might be a little better at dribbling the basketball, but he's not a better ball handler. There's a distinction to be made. Handling the ball is more than just being able to dribble the ball well. It's about making smart passes, not being careless when you have possession of the basketball, having soft hands to catch passes, knowing which teammates you can make a hard bullet pass to and teammates you need to make firm bounce passes to because they'll bobble the ball otherwise. If you want to say Durant can dribble the basketball better, that is reasonable. Dirk is a better ball handler.

[Findog]

If its about the RIGHT NOW (some retards here were of course to stupid to understand OPs question) i will take Dirk.

Dirk could average 30 if he wants and has more unstoppable moves than Durant + experience.

That's really the only argument you can make for Dirk. By every statistical measure, Durant > Dirk except for turnover % and block %.

[Findog]

90% of that 28% is Dirk getting the ball in the low/high post and pulling for a fadeaway or shooting right away out of a pick and roll, Dirk doesn't drible the ball nearly as much as Durant does.

Like Jamstone said, taking care of the ball and ball-handling is more than who is a better dribbler or looks better doing it.

[DAF86]

Nash's usage rate: 22.9% Turnover rate: 21.4%

Are Nowitzki and Durant both better ball handlers than Nash?

[Findog]

Nash's usage rate: 22.9% Turnover rate: 21.4%

Are Nowitzki and Durant both better ball handlers than Nash?

If you stuck them at the point, probably not. If you had Nash play a wing or post position, then most definitely.

[sefant77]

Different position, i know its really hard to understand....

[BadOdor]

Nash's usage rate: 22.9% Turnover rate: 21.4%

Are Nowitzki and Durant both better ball handlers than Nash?

lol not understanding they play at different positions.

[DAF86]

Different position, i know its really hard to understand....

That's exactly my point, Durant and Nowitzki play different positions, Durant is a perimeter player therefore he dribles the ball a lot more and usually the guy that has more the ball in his hands tends to make more turnovers, is not that difficult to get.

[Latarian Milton]

Like Jamstone said, taking care of the ball and ball-handling is more than who is a better dribbler or looks better doing it.

ballcontrolling reflects/requires a wider range of attributes than only handling. he who controls the ball better must have better vision/judgement, which IMHO makes Dirk a better controller. most times Durant dribbles head down and will finally lose the ball in a big crowd, while Dirk appears much wiser and can always hurl the ball to an open teammate just in time.

[DAF86]

lol not understanding they play at different positions.

lol not understanding than Durant and Dirk also play different positions.

[Findog]

That's exactly my point, Durant and Nowitzki play different positions, Durant is a perimeter player therefore he dribles the ball a lot more and usually the guy that has more the ball in his hands tends to make more turnovers, is not that difficult to get.

Dirk is a 7'0 PF, Durant is a 6'11 SF. Neither set up shop in the low post with their backs to the basket for a majority of their offense. Their roles are not that different.

[DAF86]

Dirk is a 7'0 PF, Durant is a 6'11 SF. Neither set up shop in the low post with their backs to the basket for a majority of their offense. Their roles are not that different.

Yes, they are. You'll never see Dirk getting the ball at the top of the key to attack the basket and try to create for himself or others, nor taking the ball from defense to offense on fast breaks or half court sets.

[sefant77]

Last time i saw some Mavs games Dirk had to catch always the ball 7"+ high with an ellow hammered in his back pushing him offbalance. Then during posting up more ellbows in the back constantly pushing him offbalance...

So thats not a indicator for ballhandling skills? :rolleyes

No the wing player dribbling wild has in general better ball handling skills because he dribbles more...

[JamStone]

Neither Durant nor Dirk are point guards or primary ball handlers. It's a far more fair comparison than comparing any player who is not a point guard and not a primary ball handler to point guards or guys like LeBron, Kobe, Wade who aren't point guards but are primary ball handlers. Guys like Dirk and Durant have better turnovers rates than most point guards, not just Nash.

Durant does probably handle the basketball more than Dirk but not significantly more.

Usage rate does not take into consideration when a player is the primary ball handler, who brings the basketball up the court or facilitates the offense. It takes into consideration FGA, FTA, assists, and turnovers. Usage rate doesn't take into consideration that a point guard might dribble the shot clock down to 3 seconds, pass the ball, and then that player swings the ball again. The point guard had possession of the basketball for 21 seconds of that possession but it has no affect on his usage rate. That's why it's tough to compare turnover rates between point guards and primary ball handlers and non point guards and non primary ball handlers.

[jason54858]

Right now, Garnett.

I disagree and Willing to bet if the Celtics didn't have Rondo they would swope Garnet for John Wall in a heartbeat.

[mystargtr34]

Dirk, because he is a proven playoff performer.

[jason54858]

Every team has a wingman or perimeter player that is either a defensive specialist or a spot up three point shooter, you'll always get a chance of hiding Dirk by guarding those kind of guys, while as a bigman even if you put him on a below average offensive player he will still present liabities, for ex. not beign a defensive presence for the rivals that attack the basket and in the offensive end preventing his team from getting 2nd chance oportunities 'cause he always plays in the perimeter, leaving his team a man short under the basket.

Ok, again you cannot play Dirk at the 3 because he would be a liabilty defensively. Lets say the Mavs play Oklahoma City who guards Durant? Your logic would say let Dirk guard I guess Jeff Green. Then i am guessing you would move who ever is playing the 4 to guard Durant creating an even worse mismatch.

[Smooth Criminal]

No, this is not tough. Yeah Dirk has had a hall of fame career. But why would anybody take a 32 year old aging PF over a 21 year star. Yes, Durant has already reached superstardom.



Reread the OP

[jason54858]

Reread the OP

Your right I didn't read it. :lol I officially change my vote to Dirk

[Venti Quattro]

dirk nowitzki

[TinTin]

After what dirk did against the spurs in the playoffs, I would be hard pressed not to pick him

[HarlemHeat37]

It's really a toss-up, I would take Dirk, but I'm biased against Durant..

DAF is actually correct here, it wasn't even close this past season, in regards to the types of plays..Dirk had around 400 isolation plays all year, while Durant had around the mid 600s, obviously a sigificant margin..Durant also isos more at the 3-point line by a huge margin, while Nowitzki's 1 on 1 plays usually come from the top of the key and lower..

Dirk had over 500 post-up plays this season, while Durant had around a 100, so there was a massive difference there too..Dirk also rarely handles the ball on a pick&roll, while Durant handles it a ton, and Dirk catches a lot on the p&r, while Durant never does..

Durant had around 400 screen plays this year, one of the highest in the NBA, while Nowitzki was around 150..

They really aren't that similar in regards to their roles in the offense, almost completely different..

Durant is a slightly better isolation player this year, his main advantage comes with his 3-point shooting and his ability to draw fouls..he's obviously the better p&r facilitator as well..

Nowitzki is a much better post up player, a much better pick&roll finisher, a much better spot-up shooter..

The rest of their offense is about the same, in regards to coming off screens, cutting, passing the ball and all of that..

So offensively, you take Durant if you need somebody to create for himself, but if you need a finisher, whether it's on the pick&roll or for a jump shot, you take Nowitzki..

Defensively, Nowitzki is about average and Durant is slightly above average IMO..the main difference is that Durant is a good 1 on 1 defender, while Nowitzki was really bad this past season..

Also, while Dirk gets a bad rap for his playoff performances, he's actually a good playoff performer and has had plenty of great/dominant series' and games in the playoffs..Durant has only had 1 series, and played horribly, so he's still unproven there..