Utah Jazz

[badfish22]

I was wondering what the consensus on them is? I haven't heard a lot of talk about them, they got some nice additions this offseason. Last year, they really heated up trade but unfortunately they ran into the lakers, were was playing OUTSTANDING basketball before the playoffs started. Their core consits of: Williams, Jefferson, Millsap, Miles and Okur. They added Jefferson, Hayward and Bell. I think they could be a top 4 team in the West.

Thoughts?

[BRHornet45]

http://www.theknightofparty.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/mormons.jpg

[Darrin]

I was wondering what the consensus on them is? I haven't heard a lot of talk about them, they got some nice additions this offseason. Last year, they really heated up trade but unfortunately they ran into the lakers, were was playing OUTSTANDING basketball before the playoffs started. Their core consits of: Williams, Jefferson, Millsap, Miles and Okur. They added Jefferson, Hayward and Bell. I think they could be a top 4 team in the West.

Thoughts?

I don't like them. Jefferson has never been on a winner in Boston or Minnesota and that means he will be learning this year. Did you see what Raja Bell did last season? Unless you caught one of the 6 games he played, you didn't, either.

Wes Mathews is a huge loss and I think they have replaced Boozer as best they can, but they didn't replace him, you know? He was great in Utah. Okur is hopefully healthy and the same player we last saw on the court. Kirilenko needs to have a huge year and I stopped expecting him to do anything a long time ago. Still, the West from 2-15 is a level playing field. If they want to make a move this season, they could very well end up in the Conference Finals. They have talent, but I like the mix they've had the past couple of seasons a lot more.

[Goran Dragic]

I don't like them. Jefferson has never been on a winner in Boston or Minnesota and that means he will be learning this year. Did you see what Raja Bell did last season? Unless you caught one of the 6 games he played, you didn't, either.

Wes Mathews is a huge loss and I think they have replaced Boozer as best they can, but they didn't replace him, you know? He was great in Utah. Okur is hopefully healthy and the same player we last saw on the court. Kirilenko needs to have a huge year and I stopped expecting him to do anything a long time ago. Still, the West from 2-15 is a level playing field. If they want to make a move this season, they could very well end up in the Conference Finals. They have talent, but I like the mix they've had the past couple of seasons a lot more.

[Ashy Larry]

Good team. Great coach. Love Jerry Sloan to death. Love the fact that he doesn't take any shit. Good solid core. Al Jefferson's gonna take a little time to get acclimated. Now he will be in game that actually mean something and feel a little pressure for once instead of putting up meaningless numbers in Boston and Minnesota.

With that said, hopefully, for your sake, they don't see the Lakers in the playoffs ......

[badfish22]

Great reply darrin. We are really having some basketball discussion!

[badfish22]

I don't like them. Jefferson has never been on a winner in Boston or Minnesota and that means he will be learning this year. Did you see what Raja Bell did last season? Unless you caught one of the 6 games he played, you didn't, either.

Wes Mathews is a huge loss and I think they have replaced Boozer as best they can, but they didn't replace him, you know? He was great in Utah. Okur is hopefully healthy and the same player we last saw on the court. Kirilenko needs to have a huge year and I stopped expecting him to do anything a long time ago. Still, the West from 2-15 is a level playing field. If they want to make a move this season, they could very well end up in the Conference Finals. They have talent, but I like the mix they've had the past couple of seasons a lot more.

Was his injury serious? I can't even remember why he went down right now. I assume it was semi-serious if he missed the playoffs but it's not an Oden injury right?

[balli]

Okur is fucked. He tore his achilles and before that his back was acting up every other week. He's not going to be ready until Dec. I'd wager. His shooting will save his career, but Okur won't be as good as he was.

Wes Matthews was a huge loss. A week or so ago all the Spurs fans were talking about why it's hard to find a Bruce Bowen and who comes closest. They were all stupid for not mentioning Wes Matthews. He's already one of the better perimeter defenders in the NBA and will eventually be the best. His O is good too. He will be everything Bowen was and then some. A huge loss. I hope Paul Allen dies slowly.

That said, I'm glad we picked up Raja. He's not injury prone- his wrist is the first major injury of his career. He knows the system. He's a tough mother. All he has to do is slide his feet, scowl and drain open threes. All of which he's capable of. Obviously, I'd rather have Wes, but fuck it, we made lemonade.

Baby Al is going to be great for us. We're starting training camp early and he's been here all summer working with the Jazz coaches and training staff. I think he'll be comfortable in our system well before most analysts and people are predicting. Boozer was a piece of shit. He was finesse and short and couldn't ever get it done on D and could only get it done offensively against short scrubs. He was a cancer in the locker room and a selfish, disingenuous piece of shit towards the fans. I have no problem with Big Al over Boozer and I laugh and laugh and laugh at anybody who dares suggest otherwise. Anybody who saw the half of Jazz games that Boozer played in while under contract with us knows Millsap alone would've been an upgrade, much less Al Jefferson.

Losing Matthews and Okur aside, we're better than Portland, San Antonio, Houston, OKC, Dallas and anybody else who isn't the Lakers.

[badfish22]

Why Deron Williams Will Leave Utah For Dallas

http://dimemag.com/2010/08/why-deron-williams-will-leave-utah-for-dallas/
By Andrew Macaluso

There has been speculation from Jazz fans concerning whether or not Deron Williams wants to stay in Utah anymore. After losing teammates Carlos Boozer, Ronnie Brewer, Wes Matthews and Kyle Korver, is there any reason not to believe that Deron would want out? D-Will had an interview with David Locke (the new radio voice for the Jazz) a couple weeks ago, and he stated that he no longer lives in Salt Lake City during the summer months. Is this a sign?

I was in contact with Locke via Twitter about whether or not Deron’s heart is still with the Jazz after losing half of his team this offseason, and he stated that “Jazz fans are concerned about losing Deron, but what have the Jazz done that would make his heart be out of it? If it is, there’s nothing they can do about it.” I think losing four of the best players on his team would cause his heart to be out of it a little bit. Deron’s already stated that he’s frustrated with the way things are going in Utah, and this appears to only exacerbate his case.

In July of 2008, Williams signed a three-year extension (with a fourth-year option) for $70 million to stay with the Jazz and help bring them a title. Well, it’s been two years and there’s still no title. All the Jazz have to show for it is first round playoff exits and going over the luxury tax to bring back the same team back from ‘09, with half of them leaving during free agency this summer. It’s not that Williams couldn’t take the Jazz to a championship; it’s just his supporting cast seems to fall apart at all the wrong times.

If D-Will chooses to opt-out of his contract in 2012, where would he end up? How about following his roots in Dallas to play with the Mavericks. Deron starred at The Colony High School near Dallas, and last year at the NBA All-Star Game in Dallas, that was the happiest Williams has looked in two years. Another thing to consider is that the Mavericks will have substantial cap room in 2012, right when Deron can choose to become a free agent. If Deron ends up in Dallas, he would have a much better supporting cast than with the Jazz.

The Mavericks have one of the best shooting big men in the history of the NBA in Dirk Nowitzki. Don’t get it twisted though – he’s not a choke artist like fans believe. This is a guy who is 7-0 and has averaged 23.0 points and 8.5 rebounds for his career, all on jump shots. But let’s face it; Dirk’s never had a great point guard in his prime during his time in Dallas other than Steve Nash – and he still couldn’t lead the Mavericks to a title. Devin Harris never got the chance to prove, Jason Terry is a shooting guard and Jason Kidd is over the hill. If Dallas ends up with a Dirk and Deron combo, and that’s over 50 wins every season with just those two alone. Then you consider after the Mavs signed Deron they’d have at least $9 million to spend on another free agent in 2012 – Ray Allen, Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan and Antawn Jamison will all be available.

The best part of all is that Deron has the chance to play for the arguably the best owner in basketball, Mark Cuban. Cuban is the kind of guy that will gladly go into luxury tax in pursuit of a title, which he’s done numerous of times. Deron just wants to win, and at this point, he can’t win in Utah. Maybe Chris Bosh was right, it’s time players stop mixing loyalty when it comes to free agency.

What do you think?


we staked

[Darthkiller]

al jefferson>>>>> boozer

jefferson is younger, less injury prone (even with the acl injury 2 years ago).


jefferson put up better stats playing with some shitty point guard. boozer put up less stats plaing the with best point guard in the league.

jefferson blocks shots, boozer doesnt .

[redzero]

al jefferson>>>>> boozer

jefferson is younger, less injury prone (even with the acl injury 2 years ago).


jefferson put up better stats playing with some shitty point guard. boozer put up less stats plaing the with best point guard in the league.

jefferson blocks shots, boozer doesnt .

Boozer never played on the Hornets.

[balli]

Pipe dream, Dallas. If Deron does leave SLC, which I doubt he will, I bet he goes to LA.

[redzero]

And Boozer was given that contract in Utah for a reason--and it wasn't because of Deron Williams. Boozer was already breaking out.

[balli]

Boozer was already breaking out.
Too bad since signing that deal, he's just been breaking down.

[Purch]

We're better then last year.

And here's the reason why.

We added a true low post scoring threat who can draw double teams down low in Al Jefferson who's light years ahead of Boozer in that category. Which means we can run plays we haven't been able to run since Stockton and Malone.


Remember the left side clear-out; that play started with Stock passing the ball to Karl on the low left block, John running a hard cut past Karl and looping past 2 screens all the way around to the top of the key. Meanwhile Horny starts on the opposite 45 and cuts off a BRuss screen on the right elbow and cuts hard down the lane, while Tag moves up to the high post in the right block and sets a screen for BRuss, who then goes to the low right side and sets a second pick for Stock while he runs his curl and then BRuss flares to the right 45 extended. That all took about 5 seconds, and it all happened only if Karl didn't pass to Stock on the give and go on Stock's first cut past him in the post. Karl would start to back his man down, but because everyone else was in motion the defence couldn't gamble and double team Karl. If they did we moved the ball and found Horny streaking down the lane, or Stock at the top of the circle, or BRuss on the elbow, or Tag open on the right block... or several combinations of open players on the one play.

By giving us the ability to have a dominant low post scorer it's going to open up our offense and give us more options.

However Jefferson's gonna have to improve his passing and defense.

However even as bad a defender he's averaged nearly two blocks per game. And what I really like about him is that he admitted defense is a weak spot in his game never in the years Boozer was on Utah did he ever acknowledge that he needs to improve on that side of the ball.

And you also have to remember we're talking about a 25 year old who constantly got triple teamed in Minnosota on each possesion and still averged near a point per possesion because of his low post scoring and his average mid range jump shot.

Here's some interesting stats about Jefferson



"In over 200 post plays on Minnesota never once did he get a pick to free him, only once was he moving when he caught the ball. He just gets the ball in the left block sets himself and makes a move and converts it 48% of the time. If you consider how many times he's fouled it's about a point a possession"



"On the over 200 post plays I watched only 7 times did he catch and shoot right off a pass, think about how many times Boozer and Millsap have just caught the ball and quickly put it up off good passing"

He literally had no help on Minny which is why I don't understand how peole can rip him apart for being an inefficient scorer when you get triple teamed on each possession and the best player you can kick it out too is Flynn.



"Jefferson plays the pick and roll part differently then Boozer he rolls instead of pops. He's Unstoppable going to the rim."

" Since January 4th he hasn't missed a shot when he rolls to the rim he either gets gets fouled, converts or has a few turnovers as a result of bad passes or just mistakes"


Hes' actually a very effective Pick and Roll player. However unlike Boozer he doesn't Pick and Pop nearly as much but instead takes it inside and Scores or gets fouled. As the season moves on I expect him to improve his pick and pop abilities.

At this point Jefferson is already a better scorer then Boozer and they both are great rebounders and bad on the defensive end. However I feel there's more room for Jefferson to improve then Boozer at his age. Jefferson has shown stretches of being a good defender, Boozer not so much.


Jefferson's gonna be set up down low for the first time in his career and be given easy looks, It's gonna take some time to adjust but he's definitly gonna love how much easier things will be for him here as opposed to Minny. And his post game is arguably the best in the Nba up there with Gasol and Duncan. So there's a lot of room for him to grow as a player in Utah under a hall of fame coach.

And Jefferson already has a consistant mid range jumper. And he'll continue to improve it. But I think there's a better chance of Jefferson becoming close to as good a mid range shooter as Boozer then Boozer become close to as good a post player as Jefferson is.


And Korver was a great player but he was one dimensional, Hayward brings more to the table in the long run then Korver ever could.


He brings offensive rebounding. He's a three point shooting threat. He gets to the foul line(30% of his points are from the foul line). He bring excellent size at his position. He's an effective ball handler. And he can be a legit point forward. He's a good passer. And has a high basketball Iq. And he's a good defensive player

He was an amazing 3 point shooter but for the second half of the season they forced him to create his 3 point shot off the dribble as opposed to just being a knock down shooter. That's a hard adjustment to make mid season for any young player but he clearly has the ability.

He wasn't a good defender in college?
He spent most of his time defending power forwards whiles his natural position is the 3. But he was still effective because he never gives up on plays he ralerly gives his man lanes to the basket . He also uses his Iq on the defensive end and understand the tendencies of the players he's guarding.

He was an amazing 3 point shooter but for the second half of the season they forced him to create his 3 point shot off the dribble as opposed to just being a knock down shooter. That's a hard adjustment to make mid season for any young player but he clearly has the ability.


Go look at his statistics when he was just a knockdown shooter. He had one of the highest percents in college

He's been a great 3 point shooter ever since he game into college

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6AdlhgwqWo

People call him non athletic but compare him to a guy like Evan Turner.

Evan Turner vs Gordon Hayward


Age 21 20
Height 6'7 6'8
Weight 214 211
Reach 8'7.5 8'7
No step vert 27.5 30.5
Max vert 34.5 34.5
Max vert reach 11'6 11.5
Bench reps 9 10
Agil 11.06 11.73
Sprint 3.27 3.22
Hand size 8.75x9.5 8.5x9.25


He has the potential to be a much better player then Korver who was great as a shooter but not really spectacular in many other areas.


And then Bell replacing Matthews. The reason why Bell is gonna benifit this team is because he brings veteran leadership, toughness, three point shooting and the ability to guard the other teams best player for a whole game. Just by having a defensive man like that playing together with a healthy AK-47 this team is gonna be much better defensivly . However what Bell's gonna have to do is make sure he knocks down three pointers all season long he has to be our three point shooter along with are best defender. We've already seen what kind of player he is on the defensive end and thats exactly the kind of player Sloan wants for his team. Bell already knows the system and wants to be here.

What you guys seem to be forgetting is how much better C.J miles was last season before the injury. Personally he's this team X Factor. He can be a great player when he drives it to the hoop and doesn't always settle for the jumpshot. He's put on muscle this offseason and looks in great shape for training camp.

Okur also is expected back anywhere from training camp to the begging of the season. If he gets healthy and can space the floor for Al Jefferson this team will be much better against teams with good frontcourts like the Lakers.

[DPG21920]

Okur is fucked. He tore his achilles and before that his back was acting up every other week. He's not going to be ready until Dec. I'd wager. His shooting will save his career, but Okur won't be as good as he was.

Wes Matthews was a huge loss. A week or so ago all the Spurs fans were talking about why it's hard to find a Bruce Bowen and who comes closest. They were all stupid for not mentioning Wes Matthews. He's already one of the better perimeter defenders in the NBA and will eventually be the best. His O is good too. He will be everything Bowen was and then some. A huge loss. I hope Paul Allen dies slowly.

That said, I'm glad we picked up Raja. He's not injury prone- his wrist is the first major injury of his career. He knows the system. He's a tough mother. All he has to do is slide his feet, scowl and drain open threes. All of which he's capable of. Obviously, I'd rather have Wes, but fuck it, we made lemonade.

Baby Al is going to be great for us. We're starting training camp early and he's been here all summer working with the Jazz coaches and training staff. I think he'll be comfortable in our system well before most analysts and people are predicting. Boozer was a piece of shit. He was finesse and short and couldn't ever get it done on D and could only get it done offensively against short scrubs. He was a cancer in the locker room and a selfish, disingenuous piece of shit towards the fans. I have no problem with Big Al over Boozer and I laugh and laugh and laugh at anybody who dares suggest otherwise. Anybody who saw the half of Jazz games that Boozer played in while under contract with us knows Millsap alone would've been an upgrade, much less Al Jefferson.

Losing Matthews and Okur aside, we're better than Portland, San Antonio, Houston, OKC, Dallas and anybody else who isn't the Lakers.

1st: It is a massive opinion and assumption to think Matthews will be better than Bowen or have a better more productive career. Lets see him be the best perimeter defender in the league for years, lead the league in 3 PT shooting, be an iron man in games played and play a pivotal role on multiple championship teams that were always at the top of the league defensively.

I am not sure Utah will be better than the Spurs. They might have a better record and some of that will likely be because the Spurs coast a lot in the regular season. I definitely think they will be close and I have pegged Utah at number 2 in the West, but the Spurs still have some upside with regards to who goes further in the po's.

[Purch]

Honestly considering what Jefferson can become in Utah I really don't belive there's gonna be any doubt about him leaving after this season I think he'll sign an extension after the season.

There's a reason no one in Utah wanted to keep Boozer in Utah. But that's something Bulls fans will just figure out next season. :sleep

[Girasuck]

Why Deron Williams Will Leave Utah For Dallas

http://dimemag.com/2010/08/why-deron-williams-will-leave-utah-for-dallas/
By Andrew Macaluso

There has been speculation from Jazz fans concerning whether or not Deron Williams wants to stay in Utah anymore. After losing teammates Carlos Boozer, Ronnie Brewer, Wes Matthews and Kyle Korver, is there any reason not to believe that Deron would want out? D-Will had an interview with David Locke (the new radio voice for the Jazz) a couple weeks ago, and he stated that he no longer lives in Salt Lake City during the summer months. Is this a sign?

I was in contact with Locke via Twitter about whether or not Deron’s heart is still with the Jazz after losing half of his team this offseason, and he stated that “Jazz fans are concerned about losing Deron, but what have the Jazz done that would make his heart be out of it? If it is, there’s nothing they can do about it.” I think losing four of the best players on his team would cause his heart to be out of it a little bit. Deron’s already stated that he’s frustrated with the way things are going in Utah, and this appears to only exacerbate his case.

In July of 2008, Williams signed a three-year extension (with a fourth-year option) for $70 million to stay with the Jazz and help bring them a title. Well, it’s been two years and there’s still no title. All the Jazz have to show for it is first round playoff exits and going over the luxury tax to bring back the same team back from ‘09, with half of them leaving during free agency this summer. It’s not that Williams couldn’t take the Jazz to a championship; it’s just his supporting cast seems to fall apart at all the wrong times.

If D-Will chooses to opt-out of his contract in 2012, where would he end up? How about following his roots in Dallas to play with the Mavericks. Deron starred at The Colony High School near Dallas, and last year at the NBA All-Star Game in Dallas, that was the happiest Williams has looked in two years. Another thing to consider is that the Mavericks will have substantial cap room in 2012, right when Deron can choose to become a free agent. If Deron ends up in Dallas, he would have a much better supporting cast than with the Jazz.

The Mavericks have one of the best shooting big men in the history of the NBA in Dirk Nowitzki. Don’t get it twisted though – he’s not a choke artist like fans believe. This is a guy who is 7-0 and has averaged 23.0 points and 8.5 rebounds for his career, all on jump shots. But let’s face it; Dirk’s never had a great point guard in his prime during his time in Dallas other than Steve Nash – and he still couldn’t lead the Mavericks to a title. Devin Harris never got the chance to prove, Jason Terry is a shooting guard and Jason Kidd is over the hill. If Dallas ends up with a Dirk and Deron combo, and that’s over 50 wins every season with just those two alone. Then you consider after the Mavs signed Deron they’d have at least $9 million to spend on another free agent in 2012 – Ray Allen, Kevin Garnett, Tim Duncan and Antawn Jamison will all be available.

The best part of all is that Deron has the chance to play for the arguably the best owner in basketball, Mark Cuban. Cuban is the kind of guy that will gladly go into luxury tax in pursuit of a title, which he’s done numerous of times. Deron just wants to win, and at this point, he can’t win in Utah. Maybe Chris Bosh was right, it’s time players stop mixing loyalty when it comes to free agency.

What do you think?


we staked

What a piece of shit article. Nowhere does it mention the Jefferson trade, Raja signing, and the fact that Deron approved the pick of Hayward. Deron was just on TV a few days ago saying how he can't wait to get to camp and start this season. He's as happy as he's been since being drafted.

Your article is EPIC FAIL!!

[Purch]

What a piece of shit article. Nowhere does it mention the Jefferson trade, Raja signing, and the fact that Deron approved the pick of Hayward. Deron was just on TV a few days ago saying how he can't wait to get to camp and start this season. He's as happy as he's been since being drafted.

Your article is EPIC FAIL!!
Not to mention the fact that Al Jefferson was the one man Deron wanted on the team

[DPG21920]

Deron approved the Hayward pick? Yikes.

[Purch]

Deron approved the Hayward pick? Yikes.

Why wouldn't he approve of him?

Like I said in my post above Hayward brings alot to this team.

[balli]

Deron approved the Hayward pick? Yikes.
Ever since we acquired Jefferson, EVERYBODY has approved of the Hayward pick. Including Deron. Our disappointment didn't have to do with Hayward himself, but the need for a big man. We got our big man anyways.

[DPG21920]

Well, we will see how it plays out this year.

[badfish22]

What a piece of shit article. Nowhere does it mention the Jefferson trade, Raja signing, and the fact that Deron approved the pick of Hayward. Deron was just on TV a few days ago saying how he can't wait to get to camp and start this season. He's as happy as he's been since being drafted.

Your article is EPIC FAIL!!

Its not my article, its DIME magazines. Dont be butthurt about the impending Dallas domination.
Deron is half white, meaning you can only logically expect him to spend half his career in utah.

[Goran Dragic]

The disappointment should have had something to do with the fact Hayward sucks

[Purch]

Jazz interested in Elson?
Published on Sep 1, 2010 10:12AM http://www.sltrib.com/csp/cms/sites/sltrib/assets/images/tinybubble.gif 1 Comments (http://comments2.sltdb.com/comments.php?id=50202227)

Jazz general manager Kevin O'Connor is on vacation this week, so it was impossible to get a verfication from the team Wednesday morning regarding a tweet by Hoophype's Jorge Sierra about Utah's interest in signing veteran back-up center Francisco Elson.

The possibility of signing Elson makes sense, however, given the fact that Memo Okur is coming off Achilles tendon surgery and Utah needs as much reasonably-priced insurance in the post as possible.

Elson, 33, has spent seven years in the NBA, with his best seasons coming as a member of the Denver Nuggets (2004-06).

In all, Elson has played 405 games in his career. He averages 3.9 points and 3.8 rebounds in 16.3 minutes.

Elson, a seven-footer who weighs 240 pounds, left the Nuggets prior to the 2006-07 season when he signed a free-agent contract with San Antonio. He was traded to the Sonics midway through the 2007-08 season.

In the offseason, Elson signed a two-year, $3 million contract with Milwaukee, where he became the back-up to former University of Utah star Andrew Bogut.

In 2008-09 with the Bucks, Elson averaged 3.4 points and 3.9 rebounds in 59 games. He spent last season with Milwaukee and Philadelphia, but played a total of only 12 games.

Elson's biggest claim to fame -- or infamy, actually -- came during the 2004 playoff series between Denver and Minnesota.

In one game, Elson committed a hard foul on the Timberwolves' Kevin Garnett. Later, Garnett punched Elson in the groin. Elson's response was to call Garnett "gay," which immediately created a controversy. Elson later apologized to the gay and lesbian community in Denver.



-- Steve Luhm

v0TQCnTmzCg

i8EcvsbI2Nc

[Purch]

The disappointment should have had something to do with the fact Hayward sucks
What exactly does he suck at ?:lol

[balli]

The disappointment should have had something to do with the fact Hayward sucks
TBH, I've barely seen the kid play. But he's long and is a good shooter and I was surprised to read above that he has a 34" vertical.

I haven't seen him in action for more than a few minutes, but I know that a guy who single handedly dragged what amounts to a d-2 team through the sweet 16 and into the final seconds of the National Championship game, probably doesn't suck.

[picc84]

Deron is going to love it in LA.

[Goran Dragic]

What exactly does he suck at ?:lol
Being athletic

[DPG21920]

I am not big on Hayward either and it had nothing to do with the Jazz's needs. But, just like every draft, you have to see how it goes. I am not a big fan of many people coming out of college because they are all so unknown.

But for someone billed as a shooter, Hayward shot pretty poor from 3 point land didn't he? There are lots of players in college who go on runs in the NCAA and do nothing in the NBA.

[badfish22]

What exactly does he suck at ?:lol

Being black. He really needs to work on that.

[Purch]

He brings offensive rebounding. He's a three point shooting threat. He gets to the foul line(30% of his points are from the foul line). He bring excellent size at his position. He's an effective ball handler. And he can be a legit point forward. He's a good passer. And has a high basketball Iq. And he's a good defensive player

He was an amazing 3 point shooter but for the second half of the season they forced him to create his 3 point shot off the dribble as opposed to just being a knock down shooter. That's a hard adjustment to make mid season for any young player but he clearly has the ability.

He wasn't a good defender in college?
He spent most of his time defending power forwards whiles his natural position is the 3. But he was still effective because he never gives up on plays he ralerly gives his man lanes to the basket . He also uses his Iq on the defensive end and understand the tendencies of the players he's guarding.

He was an amazing 3 point shooter but for the second half of the season they forced him to create his 3 point shot off the dribble as opposed to just being a knock down shooter. That's a hard adjustment to make mid season for any young player but he clearly has the ability.


Go look at his statistics when he was just a knockdown shooter. He had one of the highest percents in college

He's been a great 3 point shooter ever since he Came into college

J6AdlhgwqWo (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J6AdlhgwqWo)

Evan Turner vs Gordon Hayward


Age 21 20
Height 6'7 6'8
Weight 214 211
Reach 8'7.5 8'7
No step vert 27.5 30.5
Max vert 34.5 34.5
Max vert reach 11'6 11.5
Bench reps 9 10
Agil 11.06 11.73
Sprint 3.27 3.22
Hand size 8.75x9.5 8.5x9.25

[Goran Dragic]

TBH, I've barely seen the kid play. But he's long and is a good shooter and I was surprised to read above that he has a 34" vertical.

I haven't seen him in action for more than a few minutes, but I know that a guy who single handedly dragged what amounts to a d-2 team through the sweet 16 and into the final seconds of the National Championship game, probably doesn't suck.
The white guy who supposedly has a good vertical is never actually as athletic as described. Remember how athletic Joe Alexander supposedly was?

And he didn't drag that team, it had other good players. It will probably still make the tournament at the very least without him.

[Goran Dragic]

Being black. He really needs to work on that.
:lmao

[Purch]

Look at his physical stats vs Evan turner.

Obviously the Kid isn't that unathletic

[Ashy Larry]

what is that bench press at ..... 185 or 225???

[Goran Dragic]

Look at his physical stats vs Evan turner.

Obviously the Kid isn't that unathletic
Yeah and neither was Joe Alexander.

[Purch]

Yeah and neither was Joe Alexander.
I don't see your point here.


We're not calling on him to be Josh Smith. Or any super athlete

[21_Blessings]

There's a reason no one in Utah wanted to keep Boozer in Utah. But that's something Bulls fans will just figure out next season. :sleep

There's a reason no one in Minnesota tried to keep Jefferson instead of basically salary dumping him off to any team that would take his contract.

[Goran Dragic]

I don't see your point here.
My point is that the reports of him being as athletic as Evan Turner is bullshit. He's Joe Alexander part 2.

[Purch]

There's a reason no one in Minnesota tried to keep Jefferson instead of basically salary dumping him off to any team that would take his contract.


Actually everyonein Minny wanted to keep him

http://www.twolvesblog.com/

Go Check the forum for yourself. All the old Al Jefferson threads. He's the fan favriote

The team was going into a high paced offense that didn't fit his game. So the split was coming eventually

And if you go find the trade thread no one agreed with Kahn's decision?

Look at a Jazz forum did you see anyone crying Over Booze :lol

[Purch]

My point is that the reports of him being as athletic as Evan Turner is bullshit. He's Joe Alexander part 2.

So everyone else measurements were generally right but since it shows a White Guy being athletic there wrong now?

[Goran Dragic]

So everyone else measurements were generally right but since it shows a White Guy being athletic there wrong now?
The measurements said Joe Alexander had off the charts athleticism. Look how that turned out.

[Purch]

The measurements said Joe Alexander had off the charts athleticism. Look how that turned out.

So you're giving an example of one player as a reason why a completly different player with different measurements isn't athletic.


I guess John Wall won't be athletic either. By that logic.

Or is your main point they have the same skin tone?

[Goran Dragic]

Or is your main point they have the same skin tone?
My main point is that white, American born wing players are never anything more than role players in the NBA 99.9% of the time, especially in the modern era.

[Purch]

My main point is that white, American born wing players are never anything more than role players in the NBA 99.9% of the time, especially in the modern era.

So your main point is because he's white he can't be effective.


O that makes sense. Forget the fact that he's a great player because hey he's white.

[balli]

My main point is that white, American born wing players are never anything more than role players in the NBA 99.9% of the time, especially in the modern era.
I don't think he'll ever be more than a role player. That's all we need him to be as long as we have the best pg in basketball. There's nothing wrong with a good role player. Good role players win you rings.

[Goran Dragic]

So your main point is because he's white he can't be effective.
Who was the last American born white SG or SF to make an AS team?

[Goran Dragic]

I don't think he'll ever be more than a role player. That's all we need him to be as long as we have the best pg in basketball. There's nothing wrong with a good role player. Good role players win you rings.
Yeah, an all star PG and role players at SG and SF. That's been a great formula for winning rings the last 20 years :rolleyes

[Girasuck]

My main point is that white, American born wing players are never anything more than role players in the NBA 99.9% of the time, especially in the modern era.

We're not asking him, nor expecting him to be anything more than a solid role player.

[Purch]

Who was the last American born white SG or SF to make an AS team?
Who was asking him to be an All-Star?:wow

That's not what we need or expect from him on this team

[Purch]

There's a reason no one in Minnesota tried to keep Jefferson instead of basically salary dumping him off to any team that would take his contract.
Btw here's more reactions to the Jefferson trade

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=22&t=1022649

[Goran Dragic]

Who was asking him to be an All-Star?:wow

That's not what we need or expect from him on this team
You're gonna need him to be an all star if you want any chance at making it out of the West.

[Purch]

You're gonna need him to be that if you want any chance at making it out of the West.

Not at all.

That's' not what he's here for. And Hayward probably not getting more then 15 mins per game his first year.

What we " need" Is Al Jefferson, AK-47 ,Okur and Bell to be healthy

[Goran Dragic]

Not at all.

That's' not what he's here for. And Hayward probably not getting more then 15 mins per game his first year.

What we " need" Is Al Jefferson, AK-47 ,Okur and Bell to be healthy
even if they are all healthy for the players and Hayward turns into a Mike Miller-esk role player, you're not getting past LA as a team built around a PG.

[Purch]

You're gonna need him to be an all star if you want any chance at making it out of the West.
He's gonna get his easy looks and stats. And we have so many different possible lineups at the 2/3 Starting and off the bench that we can adjust to him.

[21_Blessings]

Actually everyonein Minny wanted to keep him

http://www.twolvesblog.com/

Go Check the forum for yourself. All the old Al Jefferson threads. He's the fan favriote

The team was going into a high paced offense that didn't fit his game. So the split was coming eventually

And if you go find the trade thread no one agreed with Kahn's decision?

I was referring to Minnesota's front office. And I hardly give a shit if he was a fan favorite. Even then Jefferson being a fan favorite for leading their to team to a shit record every season when he was the center piece of the Kevin Garnett trade is quite the comedy. His numbers can't possibly be more empty.


Look at a Jazz forum did you see anyone crying Over Booze :lol

Jazz fans have Okur and Milsap while Minnesota has Darko and Kevin Love.

But you guys should be crying since you replaced Booze with an even bigger piece of shit that willingly drives around drunk. Not to mention a worse defender, with a much lower bball IQ that struggles with his weight and happens to be coming of a torn ACL.

[balli]

We're not making it out of the west. Our (and every other western team's) championship is losing to LA in the conf. finals. IMO.

[Purch]

I was referring to Minnesota's front office. And I hardly give a shit if he was a fan favorite. Even then Jefferson being a fan favorite for leading their to team to a shit record every season when he was the center piece of the Kevin Garnett trade. His numbers can't possibly be more empty.



Jazz fans have Okur and Milsap while Minnesota has Darko and Kevin Love.

But you guys should be crying since you replaced Booze with an even bigger piece of shit that willingly drives around drunk. Not to mention a worse defender, with a much lower bball IQ that struggles with his weight and happens to be coming of a torn ACL.
What? You're basing your whole opinion on the guy off a DWI?

He played 76 games coming off an acl.

He's not a worse defender since Boozer is about the worst you can get as a defender. He's the guy who stands around and waits for a rebound before a shot even goes up. And Jefferson's a better shotblocker.


And he's a dominant post player which Boozer has never been.

[Goran Dragic]

We're not making it out of the west. Our (and every other western team's) championship is losing to LA in the conf. finals. IMO.
Probably, but I assume you'd want your team to go for a chance to beat LA. Al Jefferson was a good move in my book, but that Knick pick shoulda been used on a SG or SF with all star potential, even if it meant packaging that pick with AK-47 to get Philly's #2 pick and Brand's contract so you could take Evan Turner.

[balli]

My goals for this Jazz season are that:

1. Everybody stays free from major injury.
2. We have a decent road record.
3. We draw NoH in the playoffs so we can sweep them and Deron can humiliate Chris Paul 4 playoff games in a row.
4. If somebody on LA gets hurt, we advance to the Finals.

[Purch]

Not to mention the only two things Boozer brings that Jefferson doesn't is passing and a better mid range game.

[DPG21920]

My goals for this Jazz season are that:


3. We draw NoH in the playoffs so we can sweep them and Deron can humiliate Chris Paul 4 playoff games in a row.
.

:lol

[Purch]

My goals for this Jazz season are that:

1. Everybody stays free from major injury.
2. We have a decent road record.
3. We draw NoH in the playoffs so we can sweep them and Deron can humiliate Chris Paul 4 playoff games in a row.
4. If somebody on LA gets hurt, we advance to the Finals.


I was looking at Jefferson's stats and he actually seems to play better on the road. At least efficiency Wise

[balli]

Probably, but I assume you'd want your team to go for a chance to beat LA. Al Jefferson was a good move in my book, but that Knick pick shoulda been used on a SG or SF with all star potential, even if it meant packaging that pick with AK-47 to get Philly's #2 pick and Brand's contract so you could take Evan Turner.

I'd rather have Al Jeff and Hayward and AK (plus his still expiring contract), rather than Elton Brand and an unproven commodity/potential All-Star.

Keeping Deron happy is a real necessity and that means not rebuilding through the draft, on the fly.

[badfish22]

as long as we have the best pg in basketball.

Wont be too long tbh

[Purch]

Wont be too long tbh
So the only reason you made this thread is to promote the whole Deron to Dallas idea?:sleep

[Goran Dragic]

I'd rather have Al Jeff and Hayward and AK (plus his still expiring contract), rather than Elton Brand and an unproven commodity/potential All-Star.

Keeping Deron happy is a real necessity and that means not rebuilding through the draft, on the fly.
I think Deron woulda been plenty happy playing next to Evan Turner. A year from now when he's still the only player on Utah who can do anything off the dribble, his happiness might be an afterthought.

[Purch]

I think Deron woulda been plenty happy playing next to Evan Turner. A year from now when he's still the only player on Utah who can do anything off the dribble, his happiness might be an afterthought.

Now he has the option of throwing it down low to Al Jefferson who won't be triple teamed and has a top post game in the Nba.

[Purch]

See Al Jefferson never had a problem with playing against Top defensive Centers like Dwight


Game 1:

Al Jefferson: 23/13
Dwight Howard: 12/14/3

Game 2:

Al Jefferson: 28/6/3
Dwight Howard: 10/14/3

Game 3:

Al Jefferson : 25/10/1
Dwight Howard: 28/16/1

Game 4:

Al Jefferson: 18/11/1
Dwight Howard: 20/14/4

Game 5:

Al Jefferson : 19/8/2
Dwight Howard: 23/14

Game 6:

Al Jefferson: 16/7/2
Dwight Howard: 17/5/2

Game 7:

Al Jefferson: 14/10/3
Dwight Howard: 9/15/4

Game 8:

Al Jefferson: 18/13
Dwight Howard: 24/19/4

[Goran Dragic]

Now he has the option of throwing it down low to Al Jefferson who won't be triple teamed and has a top post game in the Nba.
Still doesn't take away ball handling duties or take pressure off of him. IMO, he's only gonna put up with having such a huge burden on offense for so much longer.

[Purch]

Still doesn't take away ball handling duties or take pressure off of him. IMO, he's only gonna put up with having such a huge burden on offense for so much longer.
It doesn't take the ball handling duties off of him but having a dominat low post score definitly takes pressure off of him. Because Al Jefferson has consistantly forced teams to double team him down low his whole career

[21_Blessings]

What? You're basing your whole opinion on the guy off a DWI?

He played 76 games coming off an acl.

Jefferson sucked last season coming off acl surgery; did you even watch him? It was awkward bad. And you're a piece of shit if you choose to drive under the influence no matter who you are. Booze is just the rich asshole that got paid. What a jerk!


He's not a worse defender since Boozer is about the worst you can get as a defender. And Jefferson's a better shotblocker.

Shotblocking != defense

Jefferson's lateral quickness is non-existent and he's an abysmal post defender with a very low defensive IQ. However bad you thought Boozer was at defense Jefferson is going to be overall worse. One extra block a game isn't going to cover up the rest of deficiencies on that end.



And he's a dominant post player which Boozer has never been

Dominant post players don't usually shoot under 50%. Yes his post game has some flash but hes mediocre everywhere else offensively and hardly physical. Jefferson won't be running the p/r with Deron nearly as effectively either.

I'm not sure what you think Al Jefferson is going to 'become' by playing for the Jazz.

[Purch]

Jefferson sucked last season coming off acl surgery; did you even watch him? It was awkward bad. And you're a piece of shit if you choose to drive under the influence no matter who you are. Booze is just the rich asshole that got paid. What a jerk!



Shotblocking != defense

Jefferson's lateral quickness is non-existent and he's an abysmal post defender with a very low defensive IQ. However bad you thought Boozer was at defense Jefferson is going to be overall worse. And extra block or game isn't going to cover up the rest of deficiencies on that end.




Dominant post players don't usually shoot under 50%. Yes his post game has some flash but hes mediocre everywhere else offensively and hardly physical. Jefferson won't be running the p/r with Deron nearly as effectively either.

I'm not sure what you think Al Jefferson is going to 'become' by playing for the Jazz.



Actually Jefferson improved every month coming off the Acl injury

October : 10/6
November : 17/8
December: 18/10
January: 18/12

All the way up till march when he was averging 19/11

Playing 76 games coming off acl surgery is a major accomplishment. But averging 19/10 off one is crazy.

And how ever bad I thought Boozer was as a defender? YOu mean the guy who could never block a shot? Always went for the rebound instead of defending? Got beat by every simple spin?

I'm Good


And like I said how is Jefferson gonna shoot 50% after getting double or triple teamed every possesion with no one on his team who's actually good?
And how is he gonna shoot efficently when he gets no easy buckets off set ups?


"In over 200 post plays on Minnesota never once did he get a pick to free him, only once was he moving when he caught the ball. He just gets the ball in the left block sets himself and makes a move and converts it 48% of the time. If you consider how many times he's fouled it's about a point a possession"
"On the over 200 post plays I watched only 7 times did he catch and shoot right off a pass, think about how many times Boozer and Millsap have just caught the ball and quickly put it up off good passing"
And actually Jefferson is very effective in pick and rolls.

Since January 4th he hasn't missed a shot rolling to the basket off a pick and roll. And is actually more accurate rolling to the basket then Boozer. And gets to the line more

[Goran Dragic]

I'm not sure what you think Al Jefferson is going to 'become' by playing for the Jazz.
My guess is they hope his knee gets healthy and he keeps his weight under control. If that happens, he might actually be capable of playing on both sides of the court, and he might be athletic enough to be a p/r threat. If they end up getting 2010 Jefferson though, they're gonna hate him.

[balli]

Jefferson's lateral quickness is non-existent and he's an abysmal post defender with a very low defensive IQ.
Irregardless...


However bad you thought Boozer was at defense Jefferson is going to be overall worse.
Impossible.

[Purch]

My guess is they hope his knee gets healthy and he keeps his weight under control. If that happens, he might actually be capable of playing on both sides of the court, and he might be athletic enough to be a p/r threat. If they end up getting 2010 Jefferson though, they're gonna hate him.

The thing about his weight. Is last season he came in 30 pounds lighter. But that wasn't normal because he was just coming off the injury. So he got back to his normal weight and has been working out all summer

[Purch]

And the whole pick and roll part of our offense is way overrstated we actually run the pick and roll less then more then half the teams in the leauge statistically

[21_Blessings]

Playing 76 games coming off acl surgery is a major accomplishment. But averging 19/10 off one is crazy.

Empty statistics and horrid defense that contributed to one of the worst records in the NBA. What an accomplishment.


And how ever bad I thought Boozer was as a defender? YOu mean the guy who could never block a shot? Always went for the rebound instead of defending? Got beat by every simple spin?

Jefferson is seriously one of the worst team defenders in the NBA. You actually believe he's a better defender than Booze? Yeah he doesn't block shots but he's decent as a position defender. He doesn't usually blow simple rotations like Jefferson routinely does.

And actually Jefferson is very effective in pick and rolls.

Since January 4th he hasn't missed a shot rolling to the basket off a pick and roll. And is actually more accurate rolling to the basket then Boozer. And gets to the line more

Jefferson's jumper is nowhere near as consistent as Boozer's and that makes the pick and roll infinitely easier to defend for obvious reasons. Jefferson will get some good looks from Deron naturally but he's not replacing Boozer there and especially not replacing Booze's ability to work the high-post.

Oh and good luck playing Jefferson/Millsap on the floor together :lol

[balli]

Yeah he doesn't block shots but he's decent as a position defender. He doesn't usually blow simple rotations like Jefferson routinely does.
No he's not. He gets blown by or shot over all the time. And ignored rotations as much or more than any player the league.



Jefferson's jumper is nowhere near as consistent as Boozer's and that makes the pick and roll infinitely easier to defend for obvious reasons.
The pick and pop. As a pick and role player he's probably gonna be better. In addition, he opens up a whole chapter of our playbook that was lost when Malone left our low block.


Oh and good luck playing Jefferson/Millsap on the floor together :lol
I'd sure as fuck rather pair Al Jeff with Millsap than I would undersized Boozer with undersized Millsap. And speaking of the pick and pop, Millsap's jumper is so under-rated it isn't even funny. Dude drains those 15-18 footers.

I agree though that we lose something in the iso high post. And it remains to be seen whether or not Jeff can effectively pass out of the double team. That's a key for our low post sets. We'll see.

[Purch]

Empty statistics and horrid defense that contributed to one of the worst records in the NBA. What an accomplishment.



Jefferson is seriously one of the worst team defenders in the NBA. You actually believe he's a better defender than Booze? Yeah he doesn't block shots but he's decent as a position defender. He doesn't usually blow simple rotations like Jefferson routinely does.


Jefferson's jumper is nowhere near as consistent as Boozer's and that makes the pick and roll infinitely easier to defend for obvious reasons. Jefferson will get some good looks from Deron naturally but he's not replacing Boozer there and especially not replacing Booze's ability to work the high-post.

Oh and good luck playing Jefferson/Millsap on the floor together :lol

Except for the fact that Minny would have had a horrible record anywhere.

And Boozer is seriously one of the worst defneders in the Nba you think he's better then Jefferson :lol

And how do you know about Jefferson's high post abilities if he only tries to catch it in the low post.

And Jefferson shot mostly jumpshots last season coming off the injury and he does have a consistant mid range jumpshot though not as good as Boozer. But the difference between their post games far exceeds the difference between their jumpshots. Like I said with Jefferson we get to run plays like this that we weren't able to play with Boozer.


And his chances of improving his mid range game throughout the season are much better then Boozer trying to improve his Post game.


Remember the left side clear-out; that play started with Stock passing the ball to Karl on the low left block, John running a hard cut past Karl and looping past 2 screens all the way around to the top of the key. Meanwhile Horny starts on the opposite 45 and cuts off a BRuss screen on the right elbow and cuts hard down the lane, while Tag moves up to the high post in the right block and sets a screen for BRuss, who then goes to the low right side and sets a second pick for Stock while he runs his curl and then BRuss flares to the right 45 extended. That all took about 5 seconds, and it all happened only if Karl didn't pass to Stock on the give and go on Stock's first cut past him in the post. Karl would start to back his man down, but because everyone else was in motion the defence couldn't gamble and double team Karl. If they did we moved the ball and found Horny streaking down the lane, or Stock at the top of the circle, or BRuss on the elbow, or Tag open on the right block... or several combinations of open players on the one play.


And actually Boozer and Millsap never had the abilty to work on the floor together. Because Boozer and Millsap tried to do the exact same thing. So that's why it was either Memo - Millsap or Memo-Booze. We were least productive with Boozer and Millsap on the floor

Jefferson and Millsap are more compatible because Jefferson can post up down low which makes it easier for Milly to get easy looks. Whiles Jefferson can draw a double team unlike Booze

[Purch]

Well since we're wating for him to respond how about some entertainment

FcT7JTmPPrk

[21_Blessings]

No he's not. He gets blown by or shot over all the time. And ignored rotations as much or more than any player the league.

So you're in for a rude awakening when you finally actually watch Al Jefferson attempt to play defense for your team. :lol

I know Jazz fan hates Boozer like a cheating ex-girl right now so I understand but come on.


The pick and pop. As a pick and role player he's probably gonna be better. In addition, he opens up a whole chapter of our playbook that was lost when Malone left our low block.

The threat of a pick and pop is what makes the classic p/r dangerous. You could do that with Boozer, not really with Jefferson unless the defense is giving him a direct line to the basket. In a playoff situation..good luck with that.


I'd sure as fuck rather pair Al Jeff with Millsap than I would undersized Boozer with undersized Millsap. And speaking of the pick and pop, Millsap's jumper is so under-rated it isn't even funny. Dude drains those 15-18 footers.


Jefferson is sort of undersized as well and Millsap needs to be crashing the boards not shooting jumpers but really, I hope it works out for you guys so you don't lose Deron.

[Purch]

Except that Jefferson has an inch on Boozer

Btw I responded to your post.

[21_Blessings]

Except that Jefferson has an inch on Boozer
.

Yet shoots about 5% lower from the field for his career. Sad.

Btw Jefferson does not get to the line more than Boozer like you claimed.

[Purch]

Yet shoots about 5% lower from the field for his career. Sad.
And he faced 80% more double teams/triple teams and plays with a much worse coach and a much worse point guard :lol

[balli]

I hope it works out for you guys so you don't lose Deron.
Thanks, but like I said, if he leaves I bet it's not for DAL. He'll go to LA. That franchise loves him and he could. Book it (if he leaves).

[21_Blessings]

We'll throw you Odom and Blake's pale corpse as a parting gift.

[Girasuck]

We'll throw you Odom and Blake's pale corpse as a parting gift.

Throw in Khloe and it's a deal.

[Purch]

tOZP_FJ7KvM
XeGYksS5bcY

=D

[badfish22]

That franchise loves him

As opposed to the other 29 teams who hate great basketball players.

[tlongII]

Utah's defense will be worse this year. It's going to be tough for them.

[Purch]

Utah's defense will be worse this year. It's going to be tough for them.
Wait why would our defense be worse by replacing Matthews with Bell a proven defender and replacing Korver with Hayward who was a good defender in college? And we got rid of our worst defender in Boozer. And Ak-47 is healthy.