VRWC News: More Koch astroturf

[boutons_deux]

Koch-Funded Organizations Launch New ‘Rally For Jobs’ Campaign To Protect Big Oil Profits

Charles and David Koch, have played a leading role in the apparently successful effort by polluters to stymie Senate passage of comprehensive clean energy and climate legislation.

Today, a new Koch-backed national effort to protect the energy industry, dubbed “Rally for Jobs,” begins with rallies in Texas and will continue next week with events in New Mexico, Colorado, Illinois, and Ohio. While the American Petroleum Institute, Big Oil’s Washington lobbying arm, is the “presenting sponsor” of the Rally for Jobs tour, several Koch-backed groups are also involved:

• FreedomWorks, whose Koch-founded precursor, Citizens for a Sound Economy, received some $5.7 million from Koch foundations.
• Americans for Prosperity, which received at least $5.1 million from Koch Foundations from 2005-2008 and is an offshoot of the Koch-founded Citizens for a Sound Economy Foundation, which itself received more than $6 million from Koch foundations.
• The American Highway Users Alliance, of which Koch Industries is a member.
• Americans for Tax Reform, which received $60,000 from Koch Foundations from 1997-2008.
• The Institute for Policy Innovation, which received $35,000 from Koch foundations.
• The National Petrochemical and Refiners Association, of which Koch Industries is a member.
• The National Taxpayers Union, which has received $20,000 from Koch foundations.
• The Natural Gas Supply Association, of which Koch Industries appears to be a member.
• The Texas Prosperity Project, on whose board of directors sits Bill Oswald, Government & Regulatory Affairs Director at Koch Industries.
• The Corpus Christi Chamber of Commerce, which recently held an event sponsored by Flint Hills Resources, a wholly-owned subsidiary of Koch Industries.

http://thinkprogress.org/2010/09/01/koch-jobs-rally/

[Winehole23]

Private money can support or endorse whatever it wants to within the law. What's the BFD here, b_d?

[Wild Cobra]

Private money can support or endorse whatever it wants to within the law. What's the BFD here, b_d?
No big deal. The proper way to do things in America instead of asking the government to confiscate other people's wealth for agendas. This way, people who are like minded are set out for a goal. The liberals want to take peoples money who are opposed to their ideals rather than just contribute of their own free will.

[boutons_deux]

Yes, the wealthy have the $$$ to promote their wealth accumulation to the detriment of everybody and everything else. There are enough fat, lazy, ignorant Americans to fall for the wealthy's lies and vote against their own best interests.

[Phenomanul]

Cap and Trade is one disaster the U.S.A. will never be able to recover from...

As a country, we don't currently own some 'magical' green energy infrastructure that can logistically match the output produced by our own refining capacities... especially given the energy consumption required by our core manufacturing facilities... the heart of our economy.

Meanwhile countries like India and China, and to a lesser extent Mexico and Brazil, countries that don't give a crap about these conservationist approaches will make it prohibitively impossible for our products to compete in their markets...

Texas alone will lose about 150,000 high paying jobs over the next 4 years if the proposal eventually bursts through the Senate floor.

So yeah, the people attending these rallies have a legitimate reason for wanting to protect their livelihoods... people who actually 'work' for a living... the problem here is that incindiary folks like boutons, tend to oversimplify the issues all for the sake of biting off the heads of the oil companies' leaders... what they don't realize is that measures such as C&T will adversely affect thousands of hardworking Americans working for said companies, not just those directors he considers inherently 'evil'...

We must protect our environment, yes. Do everything within our power to prevent oil spills, toxic releases, etc... after all, the people that work in refineries and other manufacturing facilities usually reside in those very same communities, they are their own health stewards, and they affect their own quality of life...

The concept behind CO2 credits, however, is a sham... But, I'm guessing the martians have instated similar legislation considering they too have 'shrunk' their polar ice caps over the past 10 years...

Our monies and efforts as a nation should be focused on harnessing power more efficiently; green energy is awesome, but still being optimized for efficiency as it pulls more and more market share. Let's not forget that other than the harnessing of solar energy, the other green energies (wind, tidal, geothermal, etc...) affect their environment as well. Over the last year or so huge windfarms have been erected just north of Corpus Christi (mostly in the County of San Patricio)... These wind generators have begun to kill off some of the county's diverse avian population (everything ranging from pigeons, doves, pelicans, cranes, egrets, etc...). We also won't know if their construction will eventually affect the weather patterns northwest of the windfarm's location (the prevailing winds in this area are of a SE direction).

Like it or not, green energies are also intrusive. Though I would tend to agree that at this point we need to start waning our country's dependence on oil (foreign in particular)... The driving force however, shouldn't be slammed on the economy as a detriment... instead, competitive and emerging technologies should be given the impetus to excel. Eventually the market share of these green technologies will force the oil companies to continue driving up the efficiencies of their operation... until one day they will no longer be able to compete, and be forced to exit the market altogether or to redefine their core business (i.e. a shift towards petrochemicals, H2, plastics, etc...). Under this plan however, Americans are able to shift over into those other fields without adversely affecting our own economy. That's how the business model works... instead we have enviropolitico wannabes trying to dictate how and when everything in industry should be controlled...

[boutons_deux]

"We must protect our environment, yes. Do everything within our power to prevent oil spills, toxic releases, etc"

you're full of shit. Koch and his buddies in oil/coal/gas/extraction industries don't give a shit about the damage they do to the environment and their employees.

[Phenomanul]

"We must protect our environment, yes. Do everything within our power to prevent oil spills, toxic releases, etc"

you're full of shit. Koch and his buddies in oil/coal/gas/extraction industries don't give a shit about the damage they do to the environment and their employees.

Are you speaking from personal experience? Did you end up taking a big whiff of HF, benzene, MTBE, H2S, formaldehyde etc... at one of their facilities?

You know that would explain so much.... and here I thought you were either dropped on your head (I would add as an infant... but frankly everyone here knows you haven't emerged from that state), or that your parents failed to properly nourish you (both physically and emotionally). You're entitled to your opinions, but the truth is you're nothing but a big "Chicken Little" when it comes to these matters...

-Or how many acres of Amazonian rainforest are you currently protecting?
-Do you drive a bicycle everywhere?
-Or an electric vehicle that ultimately derives its energy from some fuel gas/coke/coal power generation plant? (does it make you feel better that they are the polluters and not you, the end consumer?)
-Do you refuse to use plastics, or any other petroleum-based product? (maybe you should consider taking up the Amish lifestyle... ummm... scratch that... you and your hatred shouldn't be allowed to procreate and especially not at their clip).

As you can see, you're just as 'evil' as those you denounce...

Who's really the one full of $#!+ ????

[boutons_deux]

Because I use petroleum products, I have to accept the pollution and environmental from shoddy extraction and refining practices, the cancer clusters in Lake Charles LA and its 5 chemical plants, from the cost-cutting, and disregard for employee saftey?

[Phenomanul]

Because I use petroleum products, I have to accept the pollution and environmental from shoddy extraction and refining practices, the cancer clusters in Lake Charles LA and its 5 chemical plants, from the cost-cutting, and disregard for employee saftey?

No you don't.... the problem is that you've apparently lumped them all together as some sort of evil entity when those practices aren't as prevalent as you paint them out to be... And yes, at the heart of the matter is the fact that you are still 'their' consumer no matter how much you want to pout about it.

Your stance still doesn't address the rediculousness of the Cap&Trade demands. Much less provide alternative means for us to start easing back our dependence on modern industry.

True, companies should be held accountable for their practices and bad-environmental stewardship. Especially if deliberate negligence is to blame. They don't 'owe' that to the government, however, but rather to the communities that they operate from.

Also, I would agree with the notion that the standards to which the industry is held to be reasonably improved from year to year... but that doesn't mean you throw the whole industry in a pit and expect them to 'figure it out' at the detriment of our economy... especially when the motives to do so are suspect. That's the part that seems to fly over your head continually...

[boutons_deux]

I'm sure cap&trade, which you brought up, not me, is nothing but an ATM for Wall St traders.

"to the communities that they operate from."

They don't owe shit the communities, all they owe is diligence to the bottom line and mgmt's pockets. And the communities have no legal power, no enforcement power, if the companies aren't "owing" what your fantasy says they should owe.

Koch wants no new regs, C&T or any other, wants current regs unenforced, or nullified, so Koch can continue polluting with impunity.

[boutons_deux]

btw, another oil platform just blew up in the Gulf.

[Phenomanul]

btw, another oil platform just blew up in the Gulf.

With a pipeline at 150 ft of depth (unlike the deep water horizon at one mile below)...

The rig was not in operation...

[Phenomanul]

I'm sure cap&trade, which you brought up, not me, is nothing but an ATM for Wall St traders.

But you did bring it up, by posting the article....

"Charles and David Koch, have played a leading role in the apparently successful effort by polluters to stymie Senate passage of comprehensive clean energy and climate legislation. "



"to the communities that they operate from."

They don't owe shit the communities, all they owe is diligence to the bottom line and mgmt's pockets. And the communities have no legal power, no enforcement power, if the companies aren't "owing" what your fantasy says they should owe.

Koch wants no new regs, C&T or any other, wants current regs unenforced, or nullified, so Koch can continue polluting with impunity.

See this is what I mean... you can't just go around making these slanderous statements without backing them up, without proof that shows these companies are deliberately, and willfully, harming the environment. The problem is that every operation, no matter how small produces byproducts... and that applies to the smallest unit (a person). You're being a nonpragmatic idealist in your view of manufacturing facilities, by expecting them to operate at 100% efficiency, with no waste whatsoever... That's why I made the point that the petroleum products you use to maintain your 'way of life' will always call you out on hipocrisy no matter how much you kick and scream to the contrary.

BTW those who hold the EPA as some virtuous beacon of scientific reasoning are deluded from the truth... the entity is tantamount to a collection agency full of paper pushers and squirly agendas. I work with refiners and actually have to deal with the agency (among others like the TCEQ)... sometimes their stipulations, and faulty logic FORCE us to pollute at a higher clip than what we would by otherwise trying out innovative approaches... we have to follow their permits to a "T", and never question them... when we try to explain the logical fallacies of their formulas, they have no clue how the chemistry or the science behind them even works... many of their operatives are completely clueless...

[boutons_deux]

ever wonder why gas extraction company sought and achieved exemption from the Clean Water Act? Even the EPA doesn't know what in those chemicals.

"The federal government is warning residents in a small Wyoming town with extensive natural gas development not to drink their water, and to use fans and ventilation when showering or washing clothes in order to avoid the risk of an explosion."

http://www.propublica.org/article/feds-warn-residents-near-wyoming-gas-drilling-sites-not-to-drink-their-water

Fracking is buggering Mother Earth with secret corporate semen, causing her intestines to explode and methane to pollute her innards.

[Wild Cobra]

ever wonder why gas extraction company sought and achieved exemption from the Clean Water Act? Even the EPA doesn't know what in those chemicals.

"The federal government is warning residents in a small Wyoming town with extensive natural gas development not to drink their water, and to use fans and ventilation when showering or washing clothes in order to avoid the risk of an explosion."

http://www.propublica.org/article/feds-warn-residents-near-wyoming-gas-drilling-sites-not-to-drink-their-water

Fracking is buggering Mother Earth with secret corporate semen, causing her intestines to explode and methane to pollute her innards.
It would be interesting to see the ground water tests before the drilling for gas occurred. for all we know, it could be natural. It is, after-all, natural in some places.