God did not create the universe, says Hawking

[Chachachango]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20100902/lf_nm_life/us_britain_hawking:flag::greedy:hat:married:http://God%20did%20not%20create%20the%20universe,%20says% 20Hawking

[DMX7]

link is dead. But I read it.

[admiralsnackbar]

Guess it's been awhile since the last fruitless discussion about religion...

[redzero]

Stephen Hawking knows what's up.

[IceColdBrewski]

I probably wouldn't believe in God either if I looked as retarded as Hawking.

[marini martini]

I probably wouldn't believe in God either if I looked as retarded as Hawking.

OMG, I swear I was going to post the same thing, except for retarded, I was going to say ugly as fuck!!!:lol

[The Reckoning]

yeah ALS generally does that to you. hope you dont ever know anybody who has it. imo, its the worst disease you can get.

if you really believed in God, you wouldn't rag on somebody whos unfortunate enough to be cursed with that condition.

just saying.


...

plus he's convinced that black holes create alternate universes, and he's built his whole life around studying them, so they're pretty much his God.

[marini martini]

OOoopsie, didn't know he had ALS, my bad. Will say a prayer for him!:toast

[DJ Mbenga]

wasnt he talking about aliens a couple weeks ago?

[monosylab1k]

god damn alison brie is hot as fuck

[admiralsnackbar]

Belief in God pretty much gets you blackballed in the science community, so Hawking had no choice but to follow suit.

Meh... trying to pass pseudo-scientific theory/research off as legit gets you blackballed, not belief in God.

[MannyIsGod]

Belief in God pretty much gets you blackballed in the science community, so Hawking had no choice but to follow suit.

Completely false.

[dickface]

Completely false.

crofl sure.

[dickface]

Meh... trying to pass pseudo-scientific theory/research off as legit

:lmao that criteria captures damn near every scientist who ever lived.

[badfish22]

god damn alison brie is hot as fuck

+1

[redzero]

How Christian of the Christians in this thread to make fun of a disabled man.

Well, actually no. "True" Christians would be much worse.

[admiralsnackbar]

:lmao that criteria captures damn near every scientist who ever lived.
I guess if you're a dumbass that is completely unaware of his debt to methodical scientific progress (as opposed to accidental discoveries here and there), then yeah.

[Smart Ass]

To most Christians, the Bible is like a sofware license. Nobody actually reads it. They just scroll to the bottom and click "I agree."



Then again how many people actually read Hawking's stuff and understand WTF he's talking about?

[redzero]

Then again how many people actually read Hawking's stuff and understand WTF he's talking about?

People who find it interesting and choose to read Hawking's essays.

[Smart Ass]

People who find it interesting and choose to read Hawking's essays.

But the majority still don't understand WTF he's talking about.

[Chachachango]

I probably wouldn't believe in God either if I looked as retarded as Hawking.



:lmao

[ALVAREZ6]

OOoopsie, didn't know he had ALS, my bad. Will say a prayer for him!:toast

Yeah you say your prayer douche bag

[IMDB Quote Machine]

http://content7.flixster.com/photo/31/28/13/3128137_gal.jpg
"God didn't make the universe. I made it!"

[Sportcamper]

I heard of a guy who took apart a Rolex watch & put all the parts into a paper bag….Every morning he shook the bag for an hour…After 20 years of shaking he looked into the bag to check on the watch & none of the parts reassembled themselves…

I guess the Universe is much simpler than a watch….

[DarkReign]

I heard of a guy who took apart a Rolex watch & put all the parts into a paper bag….Every morning he shook the bag for an hour…After 20 years of shaking he looked into the bag to check on the watch & none of the parts reassembled themselves…

I guess the Universe is much simpler than a watch….

I know you just troll to troll, but that is the worst analogy I could possibly think of.

Grats.

[Leetonidas]

I heard of a guy who took apart a Rolex watch & put all the parts into a paper bag….Every morning he shook the bag for an hour…After 20 years of shaking he looked into the bag to check on the watch & none of the parts reassembled themselves…

I guess the Universe is much simpler than a watch….

Wow, that was so fucking stupid. I realize it's troll bait but seriously, anyone who even would say such a thing should just turn their computer off and never type another word again. One of the stupidest, most infantile, explanations for the nature of the universe. Not surprised that theists are so retarded when it comes to this shit though, they think a bearded man in the clouds snapped his fingers and made man, pulled a rib out of him and made women, and there's your story for history. :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

[Sportcamper]

I know you just troll to troll, but that is the worst analogy I could possibly think of.

Coming from a Troll who has never posted an original thought…:toast

[clambake]

maybe the rolex was a knockoff?

[HustleMan]

maybe the rolex was a knockoff?

I got a good deal on a Rolex. PM me

[DarkReign]

Coming from a Troll who has never posted an original thought…:toast

Right :toast

[clambake]

I got a good deal on a Rolex. PM me

i don't wear watches anymore.

[CubanSucks]

god damn alison brie is hot as fuck

Ahhh I always look forward to seeing what's on DJ Mbenga's sig. Anyone else notice the hot chick from the Statefarm commercial with the 3 girls in a parking lot? She's in a couple of those pics

[grindmouse]

OOoopsie, didn't know he had ALS, my bad. Will say a prayer for him!:toast

I'm sure god has been patiently waiting to hear from you for him to get started on helping him out.

[grindmouse]

Wow, that was so fucking stupid. I realize it's troll bait but seriously, anyone who even would say such a thing should just turn their computer off and never type another word again. One of the stupidest, most infantile, explanations for the nature of the universe. Not surprised that theists are so retarded when it comes to this shit though, they think a bearded man in the clouds snapped his fingers and made man, pulled a rib out of him and made women, and there's your story for history. :lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao:lmao

I think the point he made was spot on. And your long winded reply shows it.

[redzero]

The universe is a cosmic paper bag that God shook until it looked the way it does now.

[grindmouse]

As crazy as the paper bag theory is and sounds its nothing compared to a wiggly germ in a hot pool of liquid taking 4 billion years to evolving into a human being.

[redzero]

As crazy as the paper bag theory is and sounds its nothing compared to a wiggly germ in a hot pool of gas liquid taking 4 billion years to evolving into a human being.

It's only crazy to you because you don't bother trying to understand it, just like you don't try to understand the big bang theory.

[IronMexican]

mono and DoK, Pats D looked pretty bad yesterday.

[Steve_Nash]

DoK is banned but he told me to tell you yes it looked like dog shit.

[grindmouse]

Understanding something comes natural either you do or you don't, someone "trying" to make you understand something is brain washing. The Nazi troops were made to understand killings Jews was right. Does that mean they understood it?

After reading most of your postings I am sure you find that hard to understand.

[redzero]

Understanding something comes natural either you do or you don't,

Untrue.


someone "trying" to make you understand something is brain washing.

Nobody said anything about making anybody understand something. You haven't taken the time to read about the things you find ridiculous, which is why your facts tend to be mixed up.


The Nazi troops were made to understand killings Jews was right. Does that mean they understood it?

What does that have to do with anything? Whether killing Jews is right or wrong is subjective. Whether human beings and apes share a common ancestor is objective.


After reading most of your postings I am sure you find that hard to understand.

Of course. You make claims, I make logical responses, then you brush my responses off like you always do when you have no comebacks.

[grindmouse]

after reading your postings i am sure you find that hard to understand..

+1

[redzero]

Yet again, Mouse has no comeback and resorts to posting the same shit again.

[grindmouse]

Yet again, Mouse has no comeback and resorts to posting the same shit again.

http://canalecomm.com/primaryendpoint/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/captainobvious.jpg

[redzero]

So you're basically admitting that you run whenever somebody asks you to defend your position?

[lint]

Yet again, Mouse has no comeback and resorts to posting the same shit again.

Where is that boot?

[rjv]

it is odd to see hawkings create a premise that is essentially a metaphysical one. he also has essentially conceded that the best solution to overcoming the gaps in inflation theory is to buy into the multiverse theory which means that the all important verifiabilty factor of science will be left out in this most important assertion and ultimate conclusion. his "unified theory" seems to be the multiplicity of theories (within string theory) that are very similar or dual to each other at low energy levels. that is these theories that are actually just different mathematical descriptions of the same thing (combined as one in this supergravity theory called M theory) has become his "theory of everything". he then goes on to state that the multiverse theory is what explains away the seemingly fine-tuned -for-life character of this universe (not sure what he has to say about the enigmatic dark matter and dark energy that account for the expansion of this universe) because if there are infinite amount of possible universes being generated then eventually one will be created that has all the necessary exactness that this one has (in order for life to ultimately exist).

that this is one reality of an infinite amount of possible realities is pure philosophy that reminds me of leibniz. it is science in that it does depend on a theory to fill in what are often called the "god gaps" but it still depends upon anthropic reasoning and its ultimate solution is essentially metaphysics (because hawkings unnecessarily adds to his theory that the existence of life on other planets or even in other universes makes the sigificance of life on this planet seem less remarkable. this is absolutely a philosophical assertion). also, hawking seems to be confined to arguing against a more creationist and fundamentalist christian paradigm of God. there are actually several religions that have mentioned a plurality of universes. also, there are many faiths and even philosophies (e.g. plato, whitehead, some variations of buddhism and even some current trends in western religion as well) that are not very concerned at all with the mechanistic aspects of the physical world as they are with forms, ideas and consciousness (in other words what even makes the laws of the universe possible at all or what the ideal forms of these laws are). if all we are left with as a conclusion is that we just have to assume there are other universes springing forth, from some unknown governing law or force which churns these universes or realities out, then we really have hit the end of the road. at best, cosmology arrives at a dead end, one that may feel satisfactory to some but just as an educated hunch (with no hard empirical verifiability) to others. don't get me wrong, he is always a good read and modern day cosmology is awesome but i still feel here that hawkings is engaging in the philosophy of model-dependent realism and instead of closing the door on faith and theology, he has opened the door to even more discussion (fundamentalists notwithstanding) and perhaps this is his real intent. of course, it could be a last ditch effort to save superstring theory or his hunt for a unified theory. in all, it seems like a great science read but just so-so philosophy at an elementary level.

[BadOdor]

Lots of respect for hawking. Have to be really driven to achieve what he achieve with his condition.

[TheManFromAcme]

Sagan burns in hell and will soon be joined by Hawking.
Hawking is just a sour limey.

.....just sayin

[redzero]

Sagan burns in hell and will soon be joined by Hawking.

Praise be to Jesus! Nothing is more loving than eternal damnation.

[TheManFromAcme]

Praise be to Jesus! Nothing is more loving than eternal damnation.

:rolleyes



Through my church group I have witnessed death of at least 10-15 agnostics/atheists and let me tell you mr. redzero......in the end all those 10-15 of them all reached out for Christ. Not a entity, not a "being" nor a "higher" being. They ALL reached out to Christ.

ALL do in the end. Death will knock at your door their friend. I guarantee you that deep in the chambers of what makes you "you"....you believe in Christ and God alright.

btw, they are not reaching out to Chirst because they are in their death trance. They are totally cognizant of what they are saying.


Good luck to you.

[TE]

:rolleyes



Through my church group I have witnessed death of at least 10-15 agnostics/atheists and let me tell you mr. redzero......in the end all those 10-15 of them all reached out for Christ. Not a entity, not a "being" nor a "higher" being. They ALL reached out to Christ.

ALL do in the end. Death will knock at your door their friend. I guarantee you that deep in the chambers of what makes you "you"....you believe in Christ and God alright.

btw, they are not reaching out to Chirst because they are in their death trance. They are totally cognizant of what they are saying.


Good luck to you.



I seriously admire your faith, but that's all it is...thinking subjectively and with a non-biased sentiment.



On a serious note, I would seriously not take anyones take on this thread unless they verify that they're currently enrolled in a quantum mechanics course or they have completed at least a semester's worth of it. The content in that course is ridiculous. And if there is a God, he must have spent a day or more creating the subfield of quantum mechanics than he took on creating the universe.

[ChuckD]

:rolleyes



Through my church group I have witnessed death of at least 10-15 agnostics/atheists and let me tell you mr. redzero......in the end all those 10-15 of them all reached out for Christ. Not a entity, not a "being" nor a "higher" being. They ALL reached out to Christ.

ALL do in the end. Death will knock at your door their friend. I guarantee you that deep in the chambers of what makes you "you"....you believe in Christ and God alright.

btw, they are not reaching out to Chirst because they are in their death trance. They are totally cognizant of what they are saying.


Good luck to you.

They're just following the lead of one of the holiest men to ever live...



"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ" - Mahatma Gandhi

[TheManFromAcme]

Fair enough gentlemen :toast

[Leetonidas]

:rolleyes



Through my church group I have witnessed death of at least 10-15 agnostics/atheists and let me tell you mr. redzero......in the end all those 10-15 of them all reached out for Christ. Not a entity, not a "being" nor a "higher" being. They ALL reached out to Christ.

ALL do in the end. Death will knock at your door their friend. I guarantee you that deep in the chambers of what makes you "you"....you believe in Christ and God alright.

btw, they are not reaching out to Chirst because they are in their death trance. They are totally cognizant of what they are saying.


Good luck to you.

No, they all don't. They were probably just pussies who were afraid of what might happen after death and "reached out" to Christ to "save themselves" if there was a god. Not hard to see, mankind inherently fears death thus makes up a grand afterlife to be at peace with it. Easy concept.

[Stringer_Bell]

I believe Hawking is just trying to "soften" us up for the eventual reveal that we've already made contact with THE alien race that deposited us on Earth, a race that has made energy demands on us that governments around the world have been rushing to meet but simply cannot. At the rate of information being revealed, I expect a war (humans vs aliens) to break out by 2012.

[Sisk]

No, they all don't. They were probably just pussies who were afraid of what might happen after death and "reached out" to Christ to "save themselves" if there was a god. Not hard to see, mankind inherently fears death thus makes up a grand afterlife to be at peace with it. Easy concept.

:bang

[Leetonidas]

i believe hawking is just trying to "soften" us up for the eventual reveal that we've already made contact with the alien race that deposited us on earth, a race that has made energy demands on us that governments around the world have been rushing to meet but simply cannot. At the rate of information being revealed, i expect a war (humans vs aliens) to break out by 2012.

wtf?

[Sisk]

I believe Hawking is just trying to "soften" us up for the eventual reveal that we've already made contact with THE alien race that deposited us on Earth, a race that has made energy demands on us that governments around the world have been rushing to meet but simply cannot. At the rate of information being revealed, I expect a war (humans vs aliens) to break out by 2012.

http://forum.cheatengine.org/files/what_the_fuck_am_i_reading_copy_142.jpg

[redzero]

Through my church group I have witnessed death of at least 10-15 agnostics/atheists and let me tell you mr. redzero......in the end all those 10-15 of them all reached out for Christ. Not a entity, not a "being" nor a "higher" being. They ALL reached out to Christ.

Bullshit.


ALL do in the end.

All do what?


Death will knock at your door their friend. I guarantee you that deep in the chambers of what makes you "you"....you believe in Christ and God alright.

How do you know?


btw, they are not reaching out to Chirst because they are in their death trance. They are totally cognizant of what they are saying.

Prove it.

Also, do people who have never heard of God reach out?

You sound retarded.

[Leetonidas]

Remember, if religious people were reasonable, then there wouldn't be any.

[silverblk mystix]

:rolleyes



Through my church group I have witnessed death of at least 10-15 agnostics/atheists and let me tell you mr. redzero......in the end all those 10-15 of them all reached out for Christ. Not a entity, not a "being" nor a "higher" being. They ALL reached out to Christ.

ALL do in the end. Death will knock at your door their friend. I guarantee you that deep in the chambers of what makes you "you"....you believe in Christ and God alright.

btw, they are not reaching out to Chirst because they are in their death trance. They are totally cognizant of what they are saying.


Good luck to you.


You feel that reaching out to christ is somehow a correct final conclusion--to peoples lives.

I think they were just successfully brainwashed by your church and are more blind than they were before....but hey

the great thing about all this is no-one can ever prove who is right or wrong...

and in the end who cares about meaningless crap like that anyway...

we all live for a little while and then we all die a little sooner than we planned---end of story.

[I am Tom]

Your orders as you sit on your high horse.



, I would seriously not take anyones take on this thread unless they verify that they're currently enrolled in a quantum mechanics course or they have completed at least a semester's worth of it.


You not following your own advise.


What's truly fucking sad, is that all great hip hop and rap died off in the 90's... all this new shit that has surfaced is purely sad and stupid.
When music goes from being impersonal to more personal (talking about how "fly" someone is) that ruins the whole tune.


Me showing you how to practice what you preach.


I would seriously not take triggeredexcellence take on this topic unless he can verify that he currently enrolled in a hip hop music course or he has completed at least a semester's worth of it

[TE]

Your orders as you sit on your high horse.





You not following your own advise.




Me showing you how to practice what you preach.




You are one retarded anus. I am a physics/chemistry double major dipshit. I have taken Q. Mechanics, along with a course in Physical chemistry that touched based on pure wave mechanics. I, unlike alot of people here, actually know what the fuck is happening at the atomic scale to actually have a credible post worthy of being read and taken seriously.



And about the music thing, you must be a 15 year old dumbass who listens to Lil Wayne, or Drake. Stfu, you don't know what music is.
:bang



Your existence, along with your stupidity, seriously degrade the notion that God created everyone equally.

[Lance]

You are one retarded anus. I am a physics/chemistry double major dipshit

anyone else see the irony?



I, unlike alot of people here, actually know what the fuck is happening

For someone who claims to be well educated you talk like a 17 year old loser driving a bait car on TruTV

Your superior knowledge is well documented in your postings.

read more of triggeredexcellence's worthless rants


http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/search.php?searchid=2162767

[Abraham Quintanilla]

When someone has to post what job or education they have before each post that is a red flag right there.

When someone can't post w/o out calling someone anus or a dipshit red flag #2

Who wants to debate someone one who has to toot his horn on how many classes he took ,what kind of job they have, can't talk w/o cursing, and has a short fuse?

Trust me one RuffNReadyOzstyle is enough around here do we need another?

[TheManFromAcme]

Bullshit.



All do what?



How do you know?



Prove it.

Also, do people who have never heard of God reach out?

You sound retarded.

They all do redzero. ALL do. NOBODY dies a atheist. You won't either (if that's what you are)

Some of the people I have prayed over at the doorstep of death were previous academia sorts. Explaining to me their regrets. I have been with these type redzero and you must have not witnessed anyone taking their last breath.

[I am Tom]

You are one retarded anus. I am a physics/chemistry double major dipshit. I have taken Q. Mechanics, along with a course in Physical chemistry that touched based on pure wave mechanics..

And yet your getting schooled by a 16 year old with blue hair. :lmao

[grindmouse]

You are one retarded anus. I am a physics/chemistry double major dipshit. I have taken Q. Mechanics, along with a course in Physical chemistry that touched based on pure wave mechanics. I, unlike alot of people here, actually know what the fuck is happening at the atomic scale to actually have a credible post worthy of being read and taken seriously.



And about the music thing, you must be a 15 year old dumbass who listens to Lil Wayne, or Drake. Stfu, you don't know what music is.
:bang



Your existence, along with your stupidity, seriously degrade the notion that God created everyone equally.


horn tooters that don't get laid forum.

[TE]

And yet your getting schooled by a 16 year old with blue hair. :lmao

How I'm getting schooled?

For all I know, I'm the idiot here for thinking you are someone credible to reply to.

[Y0DA]

It's only crazy to you because you don't bother trying to understand it, just like you don't try to understand the big bang theory.

Try to understand religion, you do not.

[Y0DA]

:rolleyes



Through my church group I have witnessed death of at least 10-15 agnostics/atheists and let me tell you mr. redzero......in the end all those 10-15 of them all reached out for Christ. Not a entity, not a "being" nor a "higher" being. They ALL reached out to Christ.

ALL do in the end. Death will knock at your door their friend. I guarantee you that deep in the chambers of what makes you "you"....you believe in Christ and God alright.

btw, they are not reaching out to Chirst because they are in their death trance. They are totally cognizant of what they are saying.


Good luck to you.

when man locked up, find Jesus they do.

[TE]

anyone else see the irony?




For someone who claims to be well educated you talk like a 17 year old loser driving a bait car on TruTV

Your superior knowledge is well documented in your postings.

read more of triggeredexcellence's worthless rants


http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/search.php?searchid=2162767



I don't come off as someone who is intelligent... Whether in real life or on this cyber site. I am just a curious mind who happens to have been introduced to what you would consider out of this world. My so called "rant" comes out of the fact that everyday I hear scientifically illiterate people give their take on the universe, and all the scientifically related (see how I don't mention a philosophical, or metaphysical associated value) concepts that come with the fundamentally curious question of how our world, or the universe, for that matter was created. A take on this subject coming from a scientifically illiterate person should never be taken seriously. I can sound like a dumbass with other stupid takes, like music, or best tv show, or anything sport related, because its all relative (opinions discredit other opinions, relative to the observer). But when it comes to this topic, you really have to know what you are talking about, and until that, one who gives a take but has no scientific basis backing that state up should really shut the fuck up. Physics is a field based on facts, not on opinions. Anyone giving an assertion on this should have a scientifically associated hypothesis...not one touched by metaphysics, religion, or a pseudoscientific claim.

[TE]

horn tooters that don't get laid forum.




:lol

[Horn Tooter]

horn tooters that don't get laid forum.

:lmao :lmao

[redzero]

They all do redzero. ALL do. NOBODY dies a atheist. You won't either (if that's what you are)

PROVE. IT.

Stop telling me stories and prove your damn claim or shut up.


Some of the people I have prayed over at the doorstep of death were previous academia sorts. Explaining to me their regrets. I have been with these type redzero and you must have not witnessed anyone taking their last breath.

I don't believe you, so your stories are meaningless to me.

[redzero]

Try to understand religion, you do not.

Tell me what religion is then, mouse or whoever this lame troll is from.

[Tonto]

I don't come off as someone who is intelligent... Whether in real life or on this cyber site. I am just a curious mind who happens to have been introduced to what you would consider out of this world. My so called "rant" comes out of the fact that everyday I hear scientifically illiterate people give their take on the universe, and all the scientifically related (see how I don't mention a philosophical, or metaphysical associated value) concepts that come with the fundamentally curious question of how our world, or the universe, for that matter was created. A take on this subject coming from a scientifically illiterate person should never be taken seriously. I can sound like a dumbass with other stupid takes, like music, or best tv show, or anything sport related, because its all relative (opinions discredit other opinions, relative to the observer). But when it comes to this topic, you really have to know what you are talking about, and until that, one who gives a take but has no scientific basis backing that state up should really shut the fuck up. Physics is a field based on facts, not on opinions. Anyone giving an assertion on this should have a scientifically associated hypothesis...not one touched by metaphysics, religion, or a pseudoscientific claim.




pale face triggeredexcellence wise like owl
him pw3nd mouse
make toto proud

[TheManFromAcme]

PROVE. IT.

Stop telling me stories and prove your damn claim or shut up.



I don't believe you, so your stories are meaningless to me.

...The same way you can't PROVE that our Lord and savior does not exist.

No need to get upset redzero. Geez. God still loves you whether you want to be loved or not. :toast

[admiralsnackbar]

...The same way you can't PROVE that our Lord and savior does not exist.

No need to get upset redzero. Geez. God still loves you whether you want to be loved or not. :toast

No argument there, but you have to admit that deathbed conversions are not much to hang an argument for faith on.

[TheManFromAcme]

No argument there, but you have to admit that deathbed conversions are not much to hang an argument for faith on.

Only thing I wanted to point out was that most to all atheists reach out and don't go out convinced there was no God and was substantiating that claim based off some of my personal experiences and on what I have read albeit Christian books.

In youth and in their primes all these academic boneheads (your Sagans and Hawkings and all other putz's that claim the non-existence of God the creator) are fearless and full of bravado with thier "look mom, I can prove there is no God" but when their respective journies are over, they whistle a different tune. Sure, I haven't met the Sagans and Hawkings of the world but I was able to read one of Hawkings earlier books (I believe it was titled A Brief history of time) and in it he was able to balance some theological insights and science and didn't come across agnostically overbearing. Something happened to Hawking between that book and his current claim.

[Cleveland Steamer]

Only thing I wanted to point out was that most to all atheists reach out and don't go out convinced there was no God and was substantiating that claim based off some of my personal experiences and on what I have read albeit Christian books.


10 atheists and a couple of god books have you convinced that most to all atheists will reach out????? you really think thats a relevant sample???

[LnGrrrR]

To most Christians, the Bible is like a sofware license. Nobody actually reads it. They just scroll to the bottom and click "I agree."


:lmao That's awesome.

[LnGrrrR]

...The same way you can't PROVE that our Lord and savior does not exist.

No need to get upset redzero. Geez. God still loves you whether you want to be loved or not. :toast

And likewise, you can't prove that the Flying Spaghetti Monster (bless his noodly appendages) doesn't exist. Therefore, I assume that you will immediately start believing and following his Pastafarian ways.

[LnGrrrR]

On a serious note, I would seriously not take anyones take on this thread unless they verify that they're currently enrolled in a quantum mechanics course or they have completed at least a semester's worth of it. The content in that course is ridiculous. And if there is a God, he must have spent a day or more creating the subfield of quantum mechanics than he took on creating the universe.

If there is a God out there, quantum physics and special relativity prove the exact opposite, I figure. He just worked out the physics to work for the most part, but fudged it when it came to the extremes, figuring we wouldn't ever work that out. :lol

[LnGrrrR]

They all do redzero. ALL do. NOBODY dies a atheist. You won't either (if that's what you are)


Anyone who uses the word "everyone" or "no one" in references to people's beliefs is wrong.

[redzero]

...The same way you can't PROVE that our Lord and savior does not exist.

You can't prove that the Tooth Fairy doesn't exist, so why don't you believe in him/her/it?

[TE]

If there is a God out there, quantum physics and special relativity prove the exact opposite, I figure. He just worked out the physics to work for the most part, but fudged it when it came to the extremes, figuring we wouldn't ever work that out. :lol

:lmao


I agree, God began to make the physical laws that bestow on our physical world, and he might have stalled when he reached for atomic area.

[mouse]

10 atheists and a couple of god books have you convinced that most to all atheists will reach out????? you really think thats a relevant sample???

I have read the same thing about people who are seconds from dying who confess certain sins, or tell the family where they hid money etc... I wouldn't doubt that 9 out of 10 atheist ask God to forgive them when facing death.

It doesn't mean you Darwin lovers have to get all bent out of shape when you hear about it if your so certain man evolved from a snail and know for sure there is no God why get so defensive?

Unless anyone of you have been at more than 10 peoples bedside when they died I don't think you should be trying to dispute this claim.


One theory I have is to why the Achiest of the Club get so upset is because they probably know deep down inside if they was in a bad car accident and their brains where smeared on the sidewalk and only had 30 seconds left to live they would most likely ask God to forgive them. I can only hope when it does happen to redzero someone is there to make sure it gets on youtube.

[mouse]

You can't prove that the Tooth Fairy doesn't exist, so why don't you believe in him/her/it?

Because the evidence is overwhelming.



http://i.telegraph.co.uk/telegraph/multimedia/archive/00802/tooth-fairy-460_802258c.jpg

[redzero]

If there was an all-loving God, why would I want to reach out to it before I die? And why exactly would it have to be the Judeo-Christian God?

There are more religions than Christianity, and every single one of them is just as true.

[silverblk mystix]

I'm sure that there have been many who reached out to god at the last minute. It doesn't mean too much.

I read a nice eye-opening book once and it was pretty much the opposite.

A man of the cloth who had devoted his entire life to god/jesus/religion was at his death bed and pondered for hours...

and at the very end began to question many things...and right before he died he said...

what If I have been wrong about god my whole life?

what if I just wasted a whole life on a mistaken belief?



It can go both ways and none of us will ever be able to know the answer in our short time on this planet.

[Alex Haley]

If there was an all-loving God, why would I want to reach out to it before I die? And why exactly would it have to be the Judeo-Christian God?

There are more religions than Christianity, and every single one of them is just as true.


Stop being a Slave to Darwin!

[I am Tom]

I'm sure that there have been many who reached out to god at the last minute. It doesn't mean too much.
I read a nice eye-opening book.

Oh now books are cool quote, but when someone brings up the bible then its a just a book?


A man of the cloth who had devoted his entire life to god/jesus/religion was at his death bed and pondered for hours...

A man of the cloth refers to Catholic priests so find another example please!

[Leetonidas]

Cue mouse coming in with a million trolls to back up his claims with the same unscientific conjecture as always

[redzero]

I like how idiots who don't understand atheism and evolution try to make them synonymous to each other.

[silverblk mystix]

Oh now books are cool quote, but when someone brings up the bible then its a just a book?

.

A man of the cloth refers to Catholic priests so find another example please!

There is a difference when you claim or state that a book has some interesting or good information---

than when you claim that a book---is the word of god.

The bible has some great information.

I don't remember what religion this dying person subscribed to, I was merely stating that after a life long unquestioned belief in ---whatever version--

of god he believed in...he ended up dying ...in mystery ...and unsure ...of what it ALL meant.

That is pretty much EVERYONE'S state when they die. ALL MYSTERY...conjecture, blindness, uncertainty.

The ones who die in alleged peace---are only at peace with their level of blindness--or the level of their brainwashing.

No-one in the history of human beings knows the absolute truth about God, life, death,heaven,hell, atheism,etc...



WHY is that so hard to accept for religious people????

WHY the NEED to know?


Why the need to solve an unsolvable mystery?

[TE]

There is a difference when you claim or state that a book has some interesting or good information---

than when you claim that a book---is the word of god.

The bible has some great information.

I don't remember what religion this dying person subscribed to, I was merely stating that after a life long unquestioned belief in ---whatever version--

of god he believed in...he ended up dying ...in mystery ...and unsure ...of what it ALL meant.

That is pretty much EVERYONE'S state when they die. ALL MYSTERY...conjecture, blindness, uncertainty.

The ones who die in alleged peace---are only at peace with their level of blindness--or the level of their brainwashing.

No-one in the history of human beings knows the absolute truth about God, life, death,heaven,hell, atheism,etc...



WHY is that so hard to accept for religious people????

WHY the NEED to know?


Why the need to solve an unsolvable mystery?



Great point... We can all see how evolution has shaped our minds to be curious. The human instinct is to be curious, and if you add faith to that curiosity to complement the component of accepting something that hasn't been proven through actual experimentation, you get religion.


However, just like the concept of evolution, the concept of religion has been around much longer, I think. I am in a time bind so I can't do the research right now.

[Ignignokt]

I like how idiots who don't understand atheism and evolution try to make them synonymous to each other.

you talking about militant secular atheist ala bill maher?

[midnightpulp]

Sagan burns in hell and will soon be joined by Hawking.
Hawking is just a sour limey.

.....just sayin

You just sinned.

How do you know Sagan burns in Hell?

Only God has the authority to make that decision. This is one of the problems with you fundamentalist Christians. God clearly states that he is only one who can judge, but yet you fundies condemn people to a fire-and-brimstone eternity left and right.

For the record, I'm an agnostic, but appreciate all religions when they are practiced without dogmatic fundamentalism, which is rarely the case these days.

[midnightpulp]

1 Corinthians 4:1-21

This is how one should regard us, as servants of Christ and stewards of the mysteries of God. Moreover, it is required of stewards that they be found trustworthy. But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by any human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself. For I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore do not pronounce judgment before the time, before the Lord comes, who will bring to light the things now hidden in darkness and will disclose the purposes of the heart. Then each one will receive his commendation from God. ...

[Sisk]

PROVE. IT.

Stop telling me stories and prove your damn claim or shut up.



I don't believe you, so your stories are meaningless to me.

http://www.amazon.com/Into-Light-Afterlife-Pre-Death-Experiences/dp/1564149722/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1283738890&sr=8-1

I know the author on a personal level. He's from the San Antonio area and as a hospice doctor thousands have died under his watch. It's not proof. You'll never have solid proof in a religious debate at the end of the day. "Why" will always lead to speculation. But it can be very interesting if you allow it to be (the book).

At the end of the day, you, me, and whoever doesn't know shit. We won't know until we're dead.

[redzero]

At the end of the day, you, me, and whoever doesn't know shit. We won't know until we're dead.

Which is precisely why I'm not the one making the claim here and why Christians have the burden of proof.

[JoeChalupa]

Which is precisely why I'm not the one making the claim here and why Christians have the burden of proof.

That is why it is called Faith. No scientist or thinker in the world can ever prove God does not exist, Hawking included.

[redzero]

That is why it is called Faith. No scientist or thinker in the world can ever prove God does not exist, Hawking included.

And nobody can prove that the tooth fairy doesn't exist. Why don't you believe in it, too?

[koriwhat]

ah religion... that's for fools.

[Blake]

We won't know until we're dead.

Unless you just turn to dirt when you die.

[Blake]

One theory I have is to why the Achiest of the Club get so upset is because they probably know deep down inside if they was in a bad car accident and their brains where smeared on the sidewalk and only had 30 seconds left to live they would most likely ask God to forgive them. I can only hope when it does happen to redzero someone is there to make sure it gets on youtube.

Do you think a primitive living deep in a jungle asks God to forgive him just before getting eaten by a tiger?

[Blake]

...The same way you can't PROVE that our Lord and savior does not exist.


no, it's really not the same.

[TheManFromAcme]

ah religion... that's for fools.

Your right.

That's why I have a "relationship" with Christ.

:toast


Thanks for the help

[TheManFromAcme]

And likewise, you can't prove that the Flying Spaghetti Monster (bless his noodly appendages) doesn't exist. Therefore, I assume that you will immediately start believing and following his Pastafarian ways.


Sup Ln my beantown bud.

All I can say is that your a brave warrior for our nations armed forces at which for that I have extreme respect for you but correct me if I am wrong; Did you not utter the words, "so help me God" when you took the oath?

I know the easy way out is to say that "it doesn't mean I believe in him" (if that's your claim) line but just wanted to point that out.

Seems to me that your employer, traditions withstanding, lean towards the heavenly father.

....just sayin :toast

See you in the finals...

[redzero]

I find TheManFromAcme's inability to directly answer a question amusing.

[TheManFromAcme]

Good morning redzero.

Inability to answer a direct question?

I have blind faith remember?
Why would you care if I can answer a question regarding my belief in my lord and savior Jesus Christ?

This is an open forum right? You believe in your non-beliefs (:lol) and I'll believe in my beliefs.

Just do me a favor. Start bartering for all your goods and services being that your hands may burn using our U.S. currency which so happens to have "GOD" in it.

Good day...dude.

[redzero]

Why believe in something blindly? It makes no logical sense. Faith doesn't do anything. It doesn't print our currency. It doesn't teach us.

You are just ignoring common sense because you are afraid that you might be wrong.

[TheManFromAcme]

Why believe in something blindly? It makes no logical sense. Faith doesn't do anything. It doesn't print our currency. It doesn't teach us.

You are just ignoring common sense because you are afraid that you might be wrong.

Talk about being amused for not answering a question...

Why do you care that I believe in Jesus Christ? What is your agenda regarding my faith? This is disturbing.

I am logical man and my feet are firmly planted on the ground. I tell you what it is redzero, it seems that you tend to believe that people with strong faith in God can't be logical and are closed-minded regarding science and it's proofs, theories, hypothesis and so on.

I like science. Science is great, but to let it be the only tool to help me understand the universe and it's happenings is not what I subscribe to.
You want to believe that science helps explain everthing there is to know.
I'll give you a hint; It's September 7, 2010 and guess what?.....We still don't know everything and are never going to know everything not in your lifetime nor mine.

God is in control. Sorry it bothers you.

[redzero]

We will never know everything, so that's not science's fault.

However, it is foolish to put the label "God" on what we don't know.

Again, you keep asserting that God is real yet you can't back it up. If you can't even defend your claims, why even make them in the first place?

[TheManFromAcme]

We will never know everything, so that's not science's fault.

However, it is foolish to put the label "God" on what we don't know.

Again, you keep asserting that God is real yet you can't back it up. If you can't even defend your claims, why even make them in the first place?


YOU think it's foolish and if that's what you think, good for you!:toast

Claims? What claims? All I claim is that Christ lives and is coming back. You want a differential equations to expain his second coming? Is that what you want?

I am not a scientist and your probably better versed in it than I am but one thing remains, if it is a blind faith and a blind walk, then it's all mine to have.

I don't know if your atheist or agnostic but whatever the case may be, don't be upset at the people who believe in what you claim you don't believe in.

That has never made sense.

[redzero]

Again, you just afraid that you might be wrong.

And stop saying that you have a right to believe in what you believe in. I never said you didn't. It's just painfully clear that you can't even explain why you believe in what you do.

[TheManFromAcme]

Again, you just afraid that you might be wrong.

And stop saying that you have a right to believe in what you believe in. I never said you didn't. It's just painfully clear that you can't even explain why you believe in what you do.

One last time redzero, I am going to ask you one-more-time....

What am I afraid of being wrong of? I have clearly stated that I believe in God and his doings. I BELIEVE.

Explain in what I do? What is that? That makes no sense none whatsoever.
Faith in God is "something I do"?. That's a new one.

Faith is just that.......Faith. Not to be explained, just lived.

GOD bless you redzero. He will you know. :toast

[redzero]

You keep saying that God exists, yet you fail time and time again to defend your claim.

If you can't prove that he exists, don't say that he is watching over me. I could say that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is watching over you and it would be just as likely.

[TheManFromAcme]

You keep saying that God exists, yet you fail time and time again to defend your claim.

If you can't prove that he exists, don't say that he is watching over me. I could say that the Flying Spaghetti Monster is watching over you and it would be just as likely.



Good luck to you redzero

God is alpha and omega.
I apologize for not being able to conjure up a mathematical equation for Gods existence. :rolleyes

Your a piece of work zero, truly you are. :tu

[redzero]

I didn't ask for a mathematical equation as evidence for the existence of God. I asked for any evidence at all, and I have yet to see one.

So, why don't you believe in Zeus, Shiva, Ra and so on?

[NASpurs]

So, why don't you believe in Zeus, Shiva, Ra and so on?

Would that make it more logical if he believed in Zeus? Since we're talking about logic here, why do you see the world so black and white? Either something is or something isn't yet something can't be if you don't have it slap you in the face. Nice logic there buddy.

[redzero]

Would that make it more logical if he believed in Zeus? Since we're talking about logic here, why do you see the world so black and white? Either something is or something isn't yet something can't be if you don't have it slap you in the face. Nice logic there buddy.

I never said that something doesn't exist if I have never seen.

If you believe in God without any evidence, why don't you believe in all of the other gods, too? It doesn't make sense to exclude them when they have just as much evidence supporting their existence.

[TheManFromAcme]

I never said that something doesn't exist if I have never seen.

If you believe in God without any evidence, why don't you believe in all of the other gods, too? It doesn't make sense to exclude them when they have just as much evidence supporting their existence.


here's a new concept for you redzero.......Free will :toast

[NASpurs]

I never said that something doesn't exist if I have never seen.

If you believe in God without any evidence, why don't you believe in all of the other gods, too? It doesn't make sense to exclude them when they have just as much evidence supporting their existence.

It's just a way of thinking. Christians believe there's only God the creator so any other god wouldn't make sense.

And yet the way you word your statement is funny. I know what you're trying to say, there's no evidence in the Christian God yet any other god would make sense.

[redzero]

here's a new concept for you redzero.......Free will :toast

Which doesn't answer my question at all. Again, you can believe what you want to believe. I want to know why you believe what you believe.


It's just a way of thinking. Christians believe there's only God the creator so any other god wouldn't make sense.

I already know what Christians believe.

[NASpurs]

I have a question. Is being an atheist reversing in the evolution process? Apparently the cavemen used some early forms of religion and the supernatural to explain what they didn't understand but what did they do before that? Not believe in anything? Just wondering. Is science the new "religion"?

[NASpurs]

What type of evidence is redzero looking for anyway? Any evidence would deem a person as "crazy" so what's the point?

[redzero]

How is choosing to not believe in gods related to evolution at all?

Science uses empirical evidence to explain what human beings don't understand. Religion just stops at god(s) did it.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Redzero just stalks threads like this in order to belittle those who believe differently than he, NOT to actually have an intelligent discourse and non-judgmental exchange of ideas. Pay him no mind, and these threads will die more quickly.

[redzero]

Redzero just stalks threads like this in order to belittle those who believe differently than he, NOT to actually have an intelligent discourse and non-judgmental exchange of ideas.

Really? How would I go about having "intelligent" discourse when talking about religion? I guess asking why somebody believes what they do is too much and stupid.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Really? How would I go about having "intelligent" discourse when talking about religion? I guess asking why somebody believes what they do is too much and stupid.

Thank you for proving my point.

[redzero]

All you have proven has been that having intelligent discussion with the theists on this site is impossible.

I've given my reason why I don't believe in a god. I have yet to be given a logical reason why I should.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

All you have proven has been that having intelligent discussion with the theists on this site is impossible.

I've given my reason why I don't believe in a god. I have yet to be given a logical reason why I should.

I offered to have a civil discussion w/ you over PM, but you never responded--you're just trolling for message board fodder (rather successfully I might add).

Oh, and when attempting to engage in a civil discussion, it usually helps to adopt a more reconciliatory stance with the opposing point of view. Insulting "theists" will only be seen as spoiling for a fight (which you'll get every time).

Good day, redzero.

[NASpurs]

redzero wants scientific reasoning and evidence on why people choose to believe in what they do. Not going to happen. Obviously he's too close minded for anything else.

[redzero]

When have you ever offered me that? I must have missed it.

And how did I insult theists?

I guess that it's trolling to ask why somebody believes what they do. If somebody claims that I will seek Jesus out before I die, I shouldn't ask him to prove it. That's just crazy.

[redzero]

redzero wants scientific reasoning and evidence on why people choose to believe in what they do. Not going to happen. Obviously he's too close minded for anything else.

Do you believe in the Tooth Fairy or are you just too close-minded?

[TheManFromAcme]

How is choosing to not believe in gods related to evolution at all?

Science uses empirical evidence to explain what human beings don't understand. Religion just stops at god(s) did it.

I'll bite redzero and I am going out on a limb here because I don't have a undergrad in the sciences, rather than in business so here we go and if I sound silly, I apologize;

1. Even I know science hasn't emperically explained everything. That hasn't happened nor will it ever happen.

2. One strand of DNA separates us from monkeys (or something along those lines) yet science can't find it. Why?

3. The greatest scientific genuises in history were devout Christians/Jews and scientists from Newton to Einstein insisted that biblical religion provided the key ideas from which experimental science could develop.

4. Each year a new archaeological (sp?) discovery substantiates the existence of people,places and events we once knew solely from biblical sources, including the discovery of the Moabite stone in 1868, which mentions numerous places in the Bible and the discovery of an inscription in 1961 that proves the existence of the biblical figure Pontius Pilate, just to name a few.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

I see you dodging btw, redzero. Avoiding shit like the matrix :D

[NASpurs]

Do you believe in the Tooth Fairy or are you just too close-minded?

Ah the old "there's no evidence of God yet let's make up the FSM" defense

[Dr. Gonzo]

My dick created the universe.

[redzero]

I see you dodging btw, redzero. Avoiding shit like the matrix :D

Dodging what?


1. Even I know science hasn't emperically explained everything. That hasn't happened nor will it ever happen.

Irrelevant.


2. One strand of DNA separates us from monkeys (or something along those lines) yet science can't find it. Why?One strand of DNA doesn't separate us from monkeys. And disproving evolution doesn't prove the existence of God.


3. The greatest scientific genuises in history were devout Christians/Jews and scientists from Newton to Einstein insisted that biblical religion provided the key ideas from which experimental science could develop.Your point? That's an argument from authority.


4. Each year a new archaeological (sp?) discovery substantiates the existence of people,places and events we once knew solely from biblical sources, including the discovery of the Moabite stone in 1868, which mentions numerous places in the Bible and the discovery of an inscription in 1961 that proves the existence of the biblical figure Pontius Pilate, just to name a few.I like this example:

If archaeologists find the remains of New York City 2000 years into the future, would that prove that Spider-Man existed?

[redzero]

Ah the old "there's no evidence of God yet let's make up the FSM" defense

How do you know the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist?

[LoneStarState'sPride]

How do you know the Flying Spaghetti Monster doesn't exist?

This is completely beside the point. The debate is not over whether either one exists--it's about which you have faith in. If you wanna believe in the FSM, go ahead, no one's stopping you. Pisses me off when people do shit like this to make a farce of what could be a legitimate argument.

THAT is what you are dodging with your snarky remarks, redzero--you're just making it obvious you don't anyone to convince you of God's existence (impossible, btw, because of man's free will to believe, but I digress). Like I said, if you really would like to hold a heart to heart and see things from a "theist" perspective, PM me. Otherwise, get your dumbass the fuck out of here.

[redzero]

Faith is just believing in something for no reason. Saying that somebody believes in God over the Flying Spaghetti Monster because of faith is equivalent to saying that he or she believes in God for no reason.

And if somebody can show me evidence of the existence of God, go right ahead. You can say what you want to say right now.

[Leetonidas]

Uh, Einstein was NOT a theist. And don't pull out the god and dice thing, it was a metaphor.

You people have FAITH in god because you don't want to not exist when you die. You fear the unknown and choose to fool your minds to be at peace with your meaningless existence. Sorry, but that's what it is. And none of you can prove shit about god existing, and while science may not be able to fully prove he isn't real (and what a bullshit argument btw, because you nor science can't 100% prove there isn't a fucking stay-puff marshmallow demon out there, or as redzero is implying, the tooth fairy, but everyone should know they don't exist), it has provided pretty solid evidence for everything else. The fact that you ADMITTEDLY uneducated people are really that stuck up that you think you know more than perhaps the biggest genius and physicist of our time is fucking laughable. You are no one, just some douche on the internet holding on to the religious teddy bear at night so the boogie man doesn't get you. To assert that you know more that Hawking or your opinion means more than one of the most decorate scientists ever is fucking ridiculous, and downright insulting to Hawking.

[NASpurs]

And if somebody can show me evidence of the existence of God, go right ahead. You can say what you want to say right now.

Then it comes full circle, find me evidence He doesn't exist right now. These types of debates have been played over and over. redzero thinks he's a trendsetter or something.

[redzero]

Then it comes full circle, find me evidence He doesn't exist right now.

Show me evidence that the Tooth Fairy, FSM, Shiva, Zeus, Zoroaster, etc. don't exist first.

You should know by now that you have the burden of proof. Being unable to prove that something doesn't exist doesn't prove that it does exist. If that was true, you should believe in all the aforementioned beings.

[Leetonidas]

Then it comes full circle, find me evidence He doesn't exist right now. These types of debates have been played over and over. redzero thinks he's a trendsetter or something.

Hmm, well, he has never been seen, heard, felt, smelled, tasted. None of our sense can detect him. So yep, he doesn't exist.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Uh, Einstein was NOT a theist. And don't pull out the god and dice thing, it was a metaphor.

You people have FAITH in god because you don't want to not exist when you die. You fear the unknown and choose to fool your minds to be at peace with your meaningless existence. Sorry, but that's what it is. And none of you can prove shit about god existing, and while science may not be able to fully prove he isn't real (and what a bullshit argument btw, because you nor science can't 100% prove there isn't a fucking stay-puff marshmallow demon out there, or as redzero is implying, the tooth fairy, but everyone should know they don't exist), it has provided pretty solid evidence for everything else. The fact that you ADMITTEDLY uneducated people are really that stuck up that you think you know more than perhaps the biggest genius and physicist of our time is fucking laughable. You are no one, just some douche on the internet holding on to the religious teddy bear at night so the boogie man doesn't get you. To assert that you know more that Hawking or your opinion means more than one of the most decorate scientists ever is fucking ridiculous, and downright insulting to Hawking.

The bolded part just invalidated your entire fucking argument in my eyes.

[TheManFromAcme]

Faith is not simply the recourse of an weak-minded religous nut. It is the sum and substance of any religous belief sytem. Faith is even the basis of the atheist's non-belief in God. The Bible describes faith as "the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Faith is not a pathetic baseless optimism for something that science disproves. Faith is actuality. Faith is substance. Faith is conviction.

The Christian does not need to understand religous epistemology (sp?) in order to have trustworthy assurance of things. They are objectively true without full understanding. They are subjectively true based on the internal confirmation of the holy spirit. Thus, when the Christian believes in the existence of God and the truth of the scripture, he believes in something just as reliable and even more certain as those things verified by the scientific method.

When an atheist rejects belief in God, he rejects any source of confidence beyond his own level of reasoning or understanding. The thinking atheist will be forever be questioning the origin of the universe, will be perplexed regarding morality and will be unsure of his/hers destiny and purpose of life.

The atheist uses faith too. He puts his faith in science or self. He presupposes that science or self are trustworthy places for his confidence and finds corroboration for the presupposition in the evidence that he can comprehend. He believes in his own testimony.

The atheist finds himself in the difficult position of denying all of those things that speak of God's existence and the validity of the Christian faith. He rejects God. He rejects the creation of the world by God. He rejects the deity of Christ. He rejects God's word. He suppresses the inner testimony that he has concerning the reality of God. All that he is left with his a feeble self-confidence. This is the atheists confidence.

Atheism declares that there is no God. Christianity teaches that there IS A GOD. Both cannot be true. So which one is correct redzero? The atheist? The Christian? How you respond depends upon faith. It depends on the source of your faith.

What do you have redzero? Faith in God or faith in yourself?

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Hmm, well, he has never been seen, heard, felt, smelled, tasted. None of our sense can detect him. So yep, he doesn't exist.

There is so much bullshit in this "logic" I'm not even going to get into it here.

[Leetonidas]

Also as redzero stated, the burden of proof lies on the theists, not atheists. I don't have to prove anything, because there's enough proof in science which doesn't matter because you all discredit it anyway. There's no point of having a religious debate because none of you people are interested in listening or learning anything from it, just shooting down everything or twisting into some nonsensical bullshit ala mouse. You cannot comprehend it so you castigate it. It's sad, especially since you call us "close-minded," when your minds are so closed that you pin all the grandiloquence of the universe on some bearded man in the sky and not the billions of years of intricate evolution.

[NASpurs]

Hmm, well, he has never been seen, heard, felt, smelled, tasted. None of our sense can detect him. So yep, he doesn't exist.

Black and white.

[Leetonidas]

There is so much bullshit in this "logic" I'm not even going to get into it here.

That's the point, theist. Annoying when someone uses your own religious logic, or lack thereof, against you?

[Leetonidas]

The bolded part just invalidated your entire fucking argument in my eyes.

Really? Do you have a doctorate in physics or any kind of scientific field?

And no, it doesn't;


I'll bite redzero and I am going out on a limb here because I don't have a undergrad in the sciences, rather than in business so here we go and if I sound silly, I apologize;

In other words;

"I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about so let me just spout off some more unscientific conjecture"

[redzero]

Science has nothing to do with faith at all.

jytV46Cj-i0
qs3RKZjSzYg

Here are two videos debunking the claim that atheists have "faith" in science.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

That's the point, theist. Annoying when someone uses your own religious logic, or lack thereof, against you?

I don't get into religious "logic"--religion is faith-based (as has been beat to death if you'd paid any attention, idiot). Your previous "God can't exist because the human senses can't detect him" statement is bullshit because that same line of thinking could be (and has been) applied to a plethora of things that look stupid in hindsight.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Really? Do you have a doctorate in physics or any kind of scientific field?

And no, it doesn't;


Um, yes it does. By your retarded logic, every Christian needs a PhD to be a true believer. That alone is some ol' bullshit.

[NASpurs]

Hmm, well, he has never been seen, heard, felt, smelled, tasted. None of our sense can detect him. So yep, he doesn't exist.

:lmao

I don't know, this shit makes me laugh still

[TheManFromAcme]

How is choosing to not believe in gods related to evolution at all?

Science uses empirical evidence to explain what human beings don't understand. Religion just stops at god(s) did it.


Really? Do you have a doctorate in physics or any kind of scientific field?

And no, it doesn't;



In other words;

"I don't know what the fuck I'm talking about so let me just spout off some more unscientific conjecture"

I don't recall cursing at you Lee nor insulting you. So please, refrain.
If you claim higher intelligence in here than others, start by using acceptable language okay?

Your nobody in here nor are you better than anyone and just in case you haven't implied that, I am telling you just in case.

Grow up man.

[Leetonidas]

:lmao

I don't recall insulting anyone, just pointing out the obvious that you guys aren't educated enough to sit here and try to derail whatever Hawking is saying. And man I can't believe you guys got so butthurt over that quote, which was obviously sarcasm. :lmao :lmao

There is no arguing with you people. You cannot argue faith, because the mind will believe what the heart desperately wants it to. The point is, you people running into this topic and trying to shit on Stephen Hawking is downright laughable. And once again, the burden of proof doesn't rest on atheists, it rests on you people. There is so much empirical evidence to back up our claims and your only argument is "prove to me he doesn't exist." :rolleyes

You people aren't debating, you're just whining about your faith because you feel like Hawking is personally attacking you. I really don't give a shit if you're religious, because there's nothing wrong with that. But quit being a buncha smug assholes about.

And LoneStarState'sPride, you're a faggot, btw.

[Leetonidas]

I don't get into religious "logic"--religion is faith-based (as has been beat to death if you'd paid any attention, idiot).

So you admit there's no logic involved in religion and it's completely based on hoping something's there? So you can't prove shit? Gotcha, idiot. :toast


Your previous "God can't exist because the human senses can't detect him" statement is bullshit because that same line of thinking could be (and has been) applied to a plethora of things that look stupid in hindsight.

No fucking shit. :lmao :lmao You people are asking to SEE evidence against god and it's everywhere but when the same logic is applied then it's bullshit. You can't prove shit, and even you know that you don't know for sure if god exists. You're just really hoping, I know you are, and deep down, your subconscious does too. But whatever tool, keep talking like you know shit. It's religious idiots that are the root of ALL problems in this world.

[redzero]

So does anybody have evidence for the existence of God or are all of you just going to say that you believe for no reason over and over again?

[Leetonidas]

b-b-b-b-but the bible is the word of god so he must exist!! :cry :cry :cry

[NASpurs]

I really don't give a shit if you're religious, because there's nothing wrong with that.

Anyone else think HE does give a shit? I think it bothers him how anybody can believe in religion.


But quit being a buncha smug assholes about.

I wonder who the real smug assholes in here are.

[NASpurs]

So does anybody have evidence for the existence of God or are all of you just going to say that you believe for no reason over and over again?

Stop trolling dude. It's easy to keep asking for evidence when we know religion is faith based.

BTW, I got myself suckered into one of these threads. I promise myself I wouldn't participate. :depressed

[Leetonidas]

It bothers me how fucking stupid and blind most of you people are yes, because in general I feel a sadness for humankind because of this. Religion is a cancer in this world and has only led to countless wars, genocide, and brutalities.

Besides I don't need to be smug, I know I'm far superior because I'm an atheist. That was never in question. :)

[LoneStarState'sPride]

:lmao

I don't recall insulting anyone, just pointing out the obvious that you guys aren't educated enough to sit here and try to derail whatever Hawking is saying. And man I can't believe you guys got so butthurt over that quote, which was obviously sarcasm. :lmao :lmao

There is no arguing with you people. You cannot argue faith, because the mind will believe what the heart desperately wants it to. The point is, you people running into this topic and trying to shit on Stephen Hawking is downright laughable. And once again, the burden of proof doesn't rest on atheists, it rests on you people. There is so much empirical evidence to back up our claims and your only argument is "prove to me he doesn't exist." :rolleyes

You people aren't debating, you're just whining about your faith because you feel like Hawking is personally attacking you. I really don't give a shit if you're religious, because there's nothing wrong with that. But quit being a buncha smug assholes about.

And LoneStarState'sPride, you're a faggot, btw.

Leetonidas, it's obvious your reading comprehension is lower than the Mariana Trench, so I'll make this easy for you: go find ONE post of mine where I took a shit on Steven Hawking. Go ahead, I'll wait.............












................welcome back, douche. To address the rest of your post, you claim all this "empirical evidence" allegedly disproving the existence of God, then come up with NOTHING other than your retarded "I can't sense him, so he can't exist" charade (nice dodge there, btw). There is no "burden of proof" in an argument where faith is at the very core. To assert such shows a patent misunderstanding of the very subject you are debating.

Lastly, this is a message board--don't play the "oh my, they're being smug assholes because they defend themselves" card. I don't give a SHIT about what you or Steven Hawking believe, but I'm going to stick to my guns and dish it out as well as I can take it, fucking Christian or not.

Ignorant faggot.

[redzero]

Stop trolling dude. It's easy to keep asking for evidence when we know religion is faith based.

BTW, I got myself suckered into one of these threads. I promise myself I wouldn't participate. :depressed

How am I trolling?

What is "faith"?

[LoneStarState'sPride]

BTW, I got myself suckered into one of these threads. I promise myself I wouldn't participate. :depressed

Man, I feel ya on that one. This is why I fucking hate the offseason.

[NASpurs]

It bothers me how fucking stupid and blind most of you people are yes, because in general I feel a sadness for humankind because of this. Religion is a cancer in this world and has only led to countless wars, genocide, and brutalities.

No religion isn't. People are. But if we're going to talk about the bad in religion then don't forget that religion organizations give the most donations in the US.


Besides I don't need to be smug, I know I'm far superior because I'm an atheist. That was never in question. :)

:lol

[Leetonidas]

Leetonidas, it's obvious your reading comprehension is lower than the Mariana Trench, so I'll make this easy for you: go find ONE post of mine where I took a shit on Steven Hawking. Go ahead, I'll wait.............












................welcome back, douche. To address the rest of your post, you claim all this "empirical evidence" allegedly disproving the existence of God, then come up with NOTHING other than your retarded "I can't sense him, so he can't exist" charade (nice dodge there, btw). There is no "burden of proof" in an argument where faith is at the very core. To assert such shows a patent misunderstanding of the very subject you are debating.

Lastly, this is a message board--don't play the "oh my, they're being smug assholes because they defend themselves" card. I don't give a SHIT about what you or Steven Hawking believe, but I'm going to stick to my guns and dish it out as well as I can take it, fucking Christian or not.

Ignorant faggot.

Your butthurt replies say otherwise. :lmao :lmao :lmao

http://images.starcraftmazter.net/4chan/for_forums/butthurt2.jpg

[redzero]

Ignorant faggot.

That reminds me--how many homosexuals have you personally executed? The Bible does state that homosexuality is an abomination and is punishable by death.

[Leetonidas]

No religion isn't. People are. But if we're going to talk about the bad in religion then don't forget that religion organizations give the most donations in the US.



:lol


I can somewhat agree with you there. Obviously it is not religion in itself that's evil, it's the people who use it for manipulative purposes, and over time, there have been many people to do this. We see this going on now, everywhere, even in America. Gay marriage is a good example of that. Like I said, I really don't care if people worship god because there are good lessons one can learn from the bible or morals one can be taught through its practices. But the fact is most people aren't really religious and they just believe in god because they don't want to go to hell. These are the people I cannot stand. It's one thing to feel as if you truly have a connection to god but to be one of the assholes that doesn't go to church, doesn't read the bible, yet claims he's still a christian because it's convenient and provides "eternal salvation." I sincerely hope none of you people fall into this category.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

How am I trolling?

What is "faith"?

You're trolling because you pull the same schtick on every single thread like this: the provocative atheist. Why can't you just leave it at "I don't believe there's a God" and move the fuck on? You troll for people to run around in circles arguing with you, and I gotta give you credit, you're good at it.
If you're really interested in trying to understand why people believe what they believe, the whole "call 'em out on a message board" tack is a poor one to take. PM them or expect the last 7 pages of bullshit.

For the record, the above logic applies to believers of all faiths, as well. This platform ain't exactly conducive to proselytizing--it is what it is. You're not going to convert anyone over a message board thread.

And if you want to know the definition of "faith," redzero, go consult Mr. Webster.

[Leetonidas]

That reminds me--how many homosexuals have you personally executed? The Bible does state that homosexuality is an abomination and is punishable by death.

Yeah I was gonna mention something about the religite using the word faggot as an insult but then I remembered that god hates fags so they must too.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

That reminds me--how many homosexuals have you personally executed? The Bible does state that homosexuality is an abomination and is punishable by death.

That comment wasn't even fucking addressed to you. Am I going to have to get into the whole context of the Bible argument again with you? You obviously never learn. Go look at the other thread, idiot.

[Leetonidas]

You're trolling because you pull the same schtick on every single thread like this: the provocative atheist. Why can't you just leave it at "I don't believe there's a God" and move the fuck on? You troll for people to run around in circles arguing with you, and I gotta give you credit, you're good at it.
If you're really interested in trying to understand why people believe what they believe, the whole "call 'em out on a message board" tack is a poor one to take. PM them or expect the last 7 pages of bullshit.

For the record, the above logic applies to believers of all faiths, as well. This platform ain't exactly conducive to proselytizing--it is what it is. You're not going to convert anyone over a message board thread.

And if you want to know the definition of "faith," redzero, go consult Mr. Webster.

Because this is a thread about the non-existence of God you fucking faggot. Why don't you leave it at "I'm a blind dumbfuck who believes what the church and my parents tell me" and get the fuck out because this isn't "God created the universe, says Joel Olsteen" thread, it's a scientific thread about the works of Stephen Hawking you ignorant trollop.

[Leetonidas]

Oh, here we go with the "context of the bible" bullshit. Now religionfag is gonna tell us the bible is only meant to be interpreted literally sometimes, but not always, and expel his bullshit twist on what the bible really means.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Yeah I was gonna mention something about the religite using the word faggot as an insult but then I remembered that god hates fags so they must too.

Was this before or after you decided to use the term first? Since you're obviously fixated on the term "butthurt," why not look in the mirror. Holy shit some of you people are stupid.

God doesn't hate homosexuals, he hates sin. He views homosexuality as a sin. Personally, I don't give a fuck, cuz I've got my own sin to deal with.

[redzero]

That comment wasn't even fucking addressed to you. Am I going to have to get into the whole context of the Bible argument again with you? You obviously never learn. Go look at the other thread, idiot.

Oh, I get it. You want to look at the Bible hard enough that it will mean whatever you want it to mean. So when the Bible says this--

If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them. -- Lev.20:13 (http://skepticsannotatedbible.com/lev/20.html#13)--it doesn't actually mean that homosexuals are an abomination and should be put to death.

[Leetonidas]

Brah I'm not the one vehemently arguing that an imaginary friend in the sky exists in a science thread, you are. You got butthurt about what Hawking said, came into this thread to spew your religious faggotry, then got shat on by various posters, resulting in more butthurt comments and then ultimately you trying to say that everyone but you is butthurt. lol creationist

[Leetonidas]

Oh, I get it. You want to look at the Bible hard enough that it will mean whatever you want it to mean. So when the Bible says this--
--it doesn't actually mean that homosexuals are an abomination and should be put to death.

:lmao:lmao:lmao

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Because this is a thread about the non-existence of God you fucking faggot. Why don't you leave it at "I'm a blind dumbfuck who believes what the church and my parents tell me" and get the fuck out because this isn't "God created the universe, says Joel Olsteen" thread, it's a scientific thread about the works of Stephen Hawking you ignorant trollop.

Because I make up my own mind what to believe and don't just resort to atheist party lines and cliches, douchebag. I don't give a fuck about Hawking or Olsteen (never watched or read anything by him, btw).

And to condense what I said in the other thread about the context of the Bible for you since you've proven you can't read AND comprehend simultaneously, the Bible is a BOOK. That means it was penned by man and like anything touched by man, is fallable and subject to the context and social mores of the time.

[Leetonidas]

So then you're saying you're not a Christian, you just believe someone's up there because you don't like everything your bible says? Gotcha. :tu

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Brah I'm not the one vehemently arguing that an imaginary friend in the sky exists in a science thread, you are. You got butthurt about what Hawking said, came into this thread to spew your religious faggotry, then got shat on by various posters, resulting in more butthurt comments and then ultimately you trying to say that everyone but you is butthurt. lol creationist

First of all, the OP KNEW that titling the thread in this manner would spark debate like this, so fuck off on the "science thread" bullshit.

Second of all, beyond the thread title, I didn't read a lick of what Hawking said because I. Do. Not. Care. Idk how many times I have to repeat that before your sorry ass gets the message.

Thirdly, I've had more posters agree w/ me since I started posting than disagree, so who's really getting shat on?

Fourth, you're the one who brought up both "butthurt" and "faggot," then tried to flip the tables.

And lastly, who said I was a creationist? You're grasping at straws now.

[redzero]

And to condense what I said in the other thread about the context of the Bible for you since you've proven you can't read AND comprehend simultaneously, the Bible is a BOOK. That means it was penned by man and like anything touched by man, is fallable and subject to the context and social mores of the time.

Which is just another way of justifying your selective reading of The Bible.

So, what is put in there by man and what is divine revelation? No, I already know: the divine revelation is the stuff that you agree with and the parts you disagree with weren't inspired by God's teachings.

[Leetonidas]

So, you didn't read any of the original post, yet you're here commenting on it and arguing on your faith? Wow, what a shock. Religious guy comes into science debate without reading any of the topic and is just trying to look down on everyone and claim superiority. :lmao :lmao

[LoneStarState'sPride]

So then you're saying you're not a Christian, you just believe someone's up there because you don't like everything your bible says? Gotcha. :tu

Nope, but you're too dense to get simple concepts like, oh, hey, MAYBE the world was different back when the Bible was written, and many of the passages (i.e., the law passages that atheists always run to) reflect that.

[Ghandi]

A man is but the product of his thoughts what he thinks, he becomes.

[Leetonidas]

And rofl @ the titling of the thread. It was the title of the article, but I guess the OP worded in a way to insult you so you just had to come defend your claims without reading any of it. :lmao Spoken like a true religite.

[redzero]

Nope, but you're too dense to get simple concepts like, oh, hey, MAYBE the world was different back when the Bible was written, and many of the passages (i.e., the law passages that atheists always run to) reflect that.

Actually, ALL the passages reflect that. You just want to ignore the ones you don't like.

[Leetonidas]

Nope, but you're too dense to get simple concepts like, oh, hey, MAYBE the world was different back when the Bible was written, and many of the passages (i.e., the law passages that atheists always run to) reflect that.

So those weren't laws ordained by God? Which were and which weren't? Which of the bible is of God's word and which of it is made up? How do you know? And what does the time have to do with it? Why would God hate fags 3000 years ago but not today? I'm going with redzero on this. The passages you believe are the ones from the mouth of god but the one's you don't were written by man and are fallible.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

So, you didn't read any of the original post, yet you're here commenting on it and arguing on your faith? Wow, what a shock. Religious guy comes into science debate without reading any of the topic and is just trying to look down on everyone and claim superiority. :lmao :lmao

By my scoring, YOU were the last one to claim superiority on this thread, but nice effort, you're getting there :lmao

@ redzero: you played the "divine revelation" card, not me. All I'm saying is that the law passages of the Bible reflect the social mores of the day, like any book. That's like saying reading a business book from 1970 can't have any truth in it because the corporate world is different in 2010. Specific examples are almost certainly going to be different, but underlying concepts might still apply.

[Leetonidas]

That's because I am intellectually superior to you, religite. You have imaginary friends. I don't.

[Leetonidas]

This picture is quite indicative of this thread:

http://melissadesa.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/eiffel-tower1.jpg

From left to right: Leetonidas, LoneStarStatesPride, redzero

[Leetonidas]

@ redzero: you played the "divine revelation" card, not me. All I'm saying is that the law passages of the Bible reflect the social mores of the day, like any book. That's like saying reading a business book from 1970 can't have any truth in it because the corporate world is different in 2010. Specific examples are almost certainly going to be different, but underlying concepts might still apply.

The Bible is supposed to be the word of God dumbass. A business book in the 1970s isn't nor does it have anything to do with humanity as a whole. You really suck ass at arguing or even making elementary comparisons. Just open up your system folder, find system32, and delete it. Do yourself a favor.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

This picture is quite indicative of this thread:

http://melissadesa.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/eiffel-tower1.jpg

From left to right: Leetonidas, LoneStarStatesPride, redzero

Aw, y'all are holding hands!!! So adorable :lmao

[Leetonidas]

And you're simultaneously getting banged and sucking a cock. While the picture I wanted to post cannot be posted due to the rules here, even someone as stupid as you can see what I'm getting at here. I could post a picture of a chick with jizz all over her face to indicate the bukkake that is taking place on your face in this thread if it makes you feel more comfortable since your "holding hands" joke is a stab at homosexuality because you and your god think fags should die.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

The Bible is supposed to be the word of God dumbass. A business book in the 1970s isn't nor does it have anything to do with humanity as a whole. You really suck ass at arguing or even making elementary comparisons. Just open up your system folder, find system32, and delete it. Do yourself a favor.

Now you're just choosing which "religites" to side with to support your ramshackle arguments. I'll say it again: the Bible is a BOOK, nothing magical about it. Man decided what to put in and take out. The TRUTH in the Bible is immutable (go ahead, look that shit up), but the context is ALWAYS in flux.

And of course a business book doesn't affect humanity as a whole. It's called an analogy, retard.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

And you're simultaneously getting banged and sucking a cock. While the picture I wanted to post cannot be posted due to the rules here, even someone as stupid as you can see what I'm getting at here. I could post a picture of a chick with jizz all over her face to indicate the bukkake that is taking place on your face in this thread if it makes you feel more comfortable since your "holding hands" joke is a stab at homosexuality because you and your god think fags should die.

Oh wow, you're so helpful in explaining this to me! NOW I understand what you were implying by that picture.

[/sarcasm]

I never said I hated homosexuals, nor did God say that, but go right ahead, put words in my mouth.

[TheManFromAcme]

That's because I am intellectually superior to you, religite. You have imaginary friends. I don't.

No your not.

There is no proof that you are :rolleyes

[redzero]

@ redzero: you played the "divine revelation" card, not me. All I'm saying is that the law passages of the Bible reflect the social mores of the day, like any book. That's like saying reading a business book from 1970 can't have any truth in it because the corporate world is different in 2010. Specific examples are almost certainly going to be different, but underlying concepts might still apply.

The Bible is supposed to be the word of God, not partly the word of God.

You are picking and choosing what you want to follow. Period. There is no way of getting around it.

You assert that some parts are indicative of contemporary man's beliefs and not God's, and I say bullshit. All of the Bible was written by man, so all of it should be fallible.

[Leetonidas]

Now you're just choosing which "religites" to side with to support your ramshackle arguments. I'll say it again: the Bible is a BOOK, nothing magical about it. Man decided what to put in and take out. The TRUTH in the Bible is immutable (go ahead, look that shit up), but the context is ALWAYS in flux.

And of course a business book doesn't affect humanity as a whole. It's called an analogy, retard.

So once again, you're basically saying that you're not a Christian because the bible is a book and context is in flux? So you just choose to believe whatever you want in it? Alright, you have been defeated. Run along now little boy.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

That's because I am intellectually superior to you, religite. You have imaginary friends. I don't.

This is why you stooped to name-calling first. Intellectual superiority. Got it. :lol

You're no better than redzero--if you want a serious discussion, we can do it over PM.

[LoneStarState'sPride]

The Bible is supposed to be the word of God, not partly the word of God.

You are picking and choosing what you want to follow. Period. There is no way of getting around it.

You assert that some parts are indicative of contemporary man's beliefs and not God's, and I say bullshit. All of the Bible was written by man, so all of it should be fallible.

So you believe Christians when they say the Bible is the "word of God," but not when they say God exists? Who's being selective now, faggot?

For the nth time, the truth in the Bible is not fallable--the context of it is. And it's really not a hard concept to understand.

[redzero]

Hey, I'm not the one bullshitting and claiming that some parts of the Bible count and some don't. You aren't being intellectually honest here, LoneStarState'sPride.

[EmptyMan]

9 pages and OP never fixed link to actual article :lol

[redzero]

So you believe Christians when they say the Bible is the "word of God," but not when they say God exists?

No, Christians make the claim that The Bible is the word of God. YOU are a Christian. Therefore, you should believe that the Bible is the word of God.


Who's being selective now, faggot?

You are. The Bible isn't a holy book to me; it's a collection of stories. The same cannot be said for you.


For the nth time, the truth in the Bible is not fallable--the context of it is. And it's really not a hard concept to understand.

No, it is clearly obvious that what you label as the "truth" is just what you agree with. You can try to spin this all you want, but the facts remain the same.

[Leetonidas]

I will say, LoneStarState'sPride, that it is impressive that you still manage to type your argument so valiantly with redzero's balls so far down your throat that stomach acid is singeing off his nut hair. Good for you man. :tu

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Hey, I'm not the one bullshitting and claiming that some parts of the Bible count and some don't. You aren't being intellectually honest here, LoneStarState'sPride.

I never said some parts "count" and some don't. I'm being intellectually competent, instead, and realizing that despite the claims of some over enthusiastic believers, the Bible is still man-written at the end of the day and therefore has no intrinsic magic or something. If it were, all parts would be written with equal tenor (shoot, there's 4 different gospels for crying out loud).

I'd love to continue this convo over PM--I got other shit to do today, though. Otherwise, continue to cower on this bullshit "science" thead :lol

[Blake]

here's a new concept for you redzero.......Free will :toast

which is gone when you get to Heaven.

[Phenomanul]

Uh, Einstein was NOT a theist. And don't pull out the god and dice thing, it was a metaphor.

You people have FAITH in god because you don't want to not exist when you die. You fear the unknown and choose to fool your minds to be at peace with your meaningless existence. Sorry, but that's what it is. And none of you can prove shit about god existing, and while science may not be able to fully prove he isn't real (and what a bullshit argument btw, because you nor science can't 100% prove there isn't a fucking stay-puff marshmallow demon out there, or as redzero is implying, the tooth fairy, but everyone should know they don't exist), it has provided pretty solid evidence for everything else. The fact that you ADMITTEDLY uneducated people are really that stuck up that you think you know more than perhaps the biggest genius and physicist of our time is fucking laughable. You are no one, just some douche on the internet holding on to the religious teddy bear at night so the boogie man doesn't get you. To assert that you know more that Hawking or your opinion means more than one of the most decorate scientists ever is fucking ridiculous, and downright insulting to Hawking.

Einstein was most assuredly a Deist... (not a Theist). Your whole argument lost merit when you failed to properly research the basis for your faux assertion.

It's pretty clear to me that you are uncapable of reasonable debate... especially when your presuppostion that those that sit across from you are somehow 'inferior' because they don't believe what you do... that argument works both ways and somehow you talk as though it doesn't apply to those on your side of the fence... who's the "stuck up" one in this context?

[redzero]

How am I cowering? You clearly don't have a leg to stand on. You call yourself a Christian, yet you only choose which parts of Christianity's guidelines that you want to believe.

Okay, so which parts are true and which parts aren't?

Are the ten commandments true?

Are the four gospels true?

Is the Genesis account of creation true?

Which ones are right and which ones are wrong?

[Phenomanul]

BTW... can't you all just open up any one of 10,000 threads on this subject...

These threads are a forum buzzkill...

People won't change their beliefs based on what they read in this forum...

[Leetonidas]

Einstein was most assuredly a Deist... (not a Theist). Your whole argument lost merit when you failed to properly research the basis for your faux assertion.

It's pretty clear to me that you are uncapable of reasonable debate... especially when your presuppostion that those that sit across from you are somehow 'inferior' because they don't believe what you do... that argument works both ways and somehow you talk as though it doesn't apply to those on your side of the fence... who's the "stuck up" one in this context?

You fail.


In a 1954 letter, he wrote, "I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly." In a letter to philosopher Erik Gutkind, Einstein remarked, "The word God is for me nothing more than the expression and product of human weakness, the Bible a collection of honorable, but still purely primitive, legends which are nevertheless pretty childish."

Repeated attempts by the press to present Albert Einstein as a religious man provoked the following statement:

It was, of course, a lie what you read about my religious convictions, a lie which is being systematically repeated. I do not believe in a personal God and I have never denied this but have expressed it clearly. If something is in me which can be called religious then it is the unbounded admiration for the structure of the world so far as our science can reveal it.
—Albert Einstein

So he's a deist and believes in a God when he just said numerous times he doesn't believe in God? Okay.

:lmao

You guys are getting so butthurt because I said I'm superior to religites. Too fucking easy. Now I know how the Mavkrew feels when trolling koriwhat

[Blake]

Your whole argument lost merit when you failed to properly research the basis for your faux assertion.


The argument that there is a God has little to no merit to begin with.

[Blake]

BTW... can't you all just open up any one of 10,000 threads on this subject...

These threads are a forum buzzkill...

People won't change their beliefs based on what they read in this forum...

yet you just bumped this particular thread.

well done. :tu

[redzero]

The argument that there is a God has little to no merit to begin with.

Who needs merit when one can have faith? That way, they can believe in whatever they want and not have to justify it to anyone, themselves included.

[Leetonidas]

Did you guys here? Santa Claus is real. And don't tell me he isn't because you can't prove it. I have faith he's real so he is! Nah-nah-nah!!

[Phenomanul]

You fail.



:lmao

You guys are getting so butthurt because I said I'm superior to religites. Too fucking easy. Now I know how the Mavkrew feels when trolling koriwhat

Ummm check the date on those letters... and then the date of Einstein's death. Then read his official biography... and the letters to Oppenheimer... of course if that's too much work for you... go ahead and continue believing that wikipedia is the ultimate source of knowledge and truth (people's biased revisionism aside)... :lol

Where is the "premature celebration" emoticon when you need one...?

:wakeup

[Phenomanul]

yet you just bumped this particular thread.

well done. :tu

If posting in a thread that was already on page one is considered "bumping" then I'm guilty...

oh wait... you were just taking your usual jab a me? and found none other than trite material to do so...

awwwww... I'm flattered....

:wakeup

"BUMP"

[GeorgeCostanza]

Did you guys here? Santa Claus is real. And don't tell me he isn't because you can't prove it. I have faith he's real so he is! Nah-nah-nah!!

And there in lies the truth...if you believe it...it is not a lie.

[GeorgeCostanza]

Who needs merit when one can have faith? That way, they can believe in whatever they want and not have to justify it to anyone, themselves included.

Well no shit sherlocke!! You too can believe in anything you want without justifying it.

[redzero]

And there in lies the truth...if you believe it...it is not a lie.

That's a lie.

If I believed I could fly without assistance from technology, I still wouldn't be able to do it regardless.

[GeorgeCostanza]

That's a lie.

If I believed I could fly without assistance from technology, I still wouldn't be able to do it regardless.

But you could still "believe" it.

[monosylab1k]

tbh redzero, being an atheist and scoffing God does nothing but further cement your hipster status.

Basically every hipster on earth is an atheist that scoffs God, except for Sufjan Stevens.

[redzero]

I don't know about scoffing God, since I don't believe there is one.


But you could still "believe" it.

Where did I say that one couldn't believe something that wasn't true? I'm saying that just because somebody believes something doesn't make it true.

[Blake]

If posting in a thread that was already on page one is considered "bumping" then I'm guilty...

no, you are guilty of whining about this being a buzzkill and then bumpin it on page 9.


oh wait... you were just taking your usual jab a me? and found none other than trite material to do so...

awwwww... I'm flattered....

:wakeup

"BUMP"

buzzhurt

[GeorgeCostanza]

I don't know about scoffing God, since I don't believe there is one.



Where did I say that one couldn't believe something that wasn't true? I'm saying that just because somebody believes something doesn't make it true.

To the believer it does.

[redzero]

To the believer it does.

Truth is not relative, unless one is talking about opinions.

If I believed that red was blue, that doesn't make red blue.

[DoubtingThomas]

Seems like there are many doubters these days. Some are missing what faith is all about. If one does believe in something then to them it IS true. Doesn't have to be factual to others for it to be true for the believer.

[redzero]

Again, either something is true or not. Believing that I'm Abraham Lincoln doesn't make me Abraham Lincoln.

[DoubtingThomas]

As with trust, faith involves a concept of future events or outcomes, and is used conversely for a belief "not resting on logical proof or material evidence."

[DoubtingThomas]

Again, either something is true or not. Believing that I'm Abraham Lincoln doesn't make me Abraham Lincoln.

But again, to the believer IT IS TRUE. You are not grasping a simple concept.

[redzero]

But again, to the believer IT IS TRUE. You are not grasping a simple concept.

I don't fucking care what the believer thinks is true. What one thinks is true and what actually is true are not the same, making the statement "to the believer, it is true" pointless.

[GeorgeCostanza]

vn_PSJsl0LQ

[DoubtingThomas]

I don't fucking care what the believer thinks is true. What one thinks is true and what actually is true are not the same, making the statement "to the believer, it is true" pointless.

You just don't get it.

[redzero]

What is there to get?

Thinking something is true doesn't make it true. It has already been established that Christians believe that God is real, so the statement "God is real" is obviously true in their minds.

You are just stating the obvious.

[DoubtingThomas]

In that case what make you think that what Hawking's says or writes is true? Are you not just believing what someone else is telling you is true? Hawking's has no more proof there is no God than believers have there IS a God. In your words, saying there is no God does NOT make it true.

[Blake]

But again, to the believer IT IS TRUE. You are not grasping a simple concept.



yeah, it's like when a messageboard poster believes he/she is right but everyone else knows he/she is wrong.

All that matters is what the poster believes.

[Blake]

Hawking's has no more proof there is no God than believers have there IS a God. In your words, saying there is no God does NOT make it true.

Spaghetti Monster Law..

sooner and/or later, it's almost always inevitable.

[redzero]

In that case what make you think that what Hawking's says or writes is true? Are you not just believing what someone else is telling you is true? Hawking's has no more proof there is no God than believers have there IS a God. In your words, saying there is no God does NOT make it true.

I didn't even read the article, so I don't care what Hawking has to say about it.

And, as Blake above me stated, until theists can prove that there is no Flying Spaghetti Monster, they have no reason not to believe in him, too.

[rjv]

technically, the multiverse theory makes the spaghetti monster a possibility. after all, there could be another universe in which the laws allow for such an entity to exist .

that is why science should stay within its limitations of being mere tautology. everything else is just metaphysics. hawking has to be familiar with the logical positivists.

that is why i am pretty sure his latest book is really more about clarifying his position on a grand unified theory (by clarifying that is what M theory is) and coming to a conclusion on the differences that exist between the variations of string theory that currently exist...as well as cosmic inflation. he needed to fill in the "god gaps" so to speak (by adding his opinion that the multiverse theory is the best option).

because if it was primarily a philosopical enterprise it would be very redundant and unoriginal, not to mention incomplete.

[Phenomanul]

no, you are guilty of whining about this being a buzzkill and then bumpin it on page 9.

I was referring to page one of the "The Club" forum, not page one of the thread, dufus... the glass on the sidebar was filled before I came into the thread (i.e. the thread was getting many hits/responses well before I entered)... so again, how am I responsible for 'bumping' a thread that's already on front page of the forum? Apparently the snicker of your trite incongruency flew over your head... typical.

And my complaint was more along the lines of, "good grief not again..."

But it seems as though some of the athiest/agnostic campers in this forum need to get their weekly fix of bashing GOD and believers, so be it... I can't change that. Circle jerk amongst yourselves as much as is needed to justify your beliefs, to make yourselves feel better... :sleep

[Blake]

I was referring to page one of the "The Club" forum, not page one of the thread, dufus...

I was referring to your whining and simultaneous bumping of the thread on page 9 of this thread, dumbfuck.


the glass on the sidebar was filled before I came into the thread (i.e. the thread was getting many hits/responses well before I entered)... so again, how am I responsible for 'bumping' a thread that's already on front page of the forum? Apparently the snicker of your trite incongruency flew over your head... typical.

I'm snickering at you trying to argue the semantics of the term 'bump'.


And my complaint was more along the lines of, "good grief not again..."

And good grief, you keep posting in this thread...


But it seems as though some of the athiest/agnostic campers in this forum need to get their weekly fix of bashing GOD and believers, so be it... I can't change that. Circle jerk amongst yourselves as much as is needed to justify your beliefs, to make yourselves feel better... :sleep

It seems you lack the self control to keep out of this thread

[Phenomanul]

I was referring to your whining and simultaneous bumping of the thread on page 9 of this thread, dumbfuck.



I'm snickering at you trying to argue the semantics of the term 'bump'.



And good grief, you keep posting in this thread...



It seems you lack the self control to keep out of this thread

I can post whenever, and wherever I want to... who said anything about self control to stay out? I called you out on your pathetic attempt to take a jab at me... and all you can do is dwiddle it down to semantics...

Really? That's the best you got? :lol

Keep it going... you're so funny!

[Blake]

I can post whenever, and wherever I want to... who said anything about self control to stay out?

I don't care if you stay or go. You can whine in this thread about this thread as often as you please.


I called you out on your pathetic attempt to take a jab at me... and all you can do is dwiddle it down to semantics...

Really? That's the best you got? :lol

Why are you so concerned about the word bump.

If you post in a thread, it keeps it up.....thus 'bumping it.'


Keep it going... you're so funny!

If you continue to whine while bumping this thread I will. It's very funny.