Spurs vs. top contenders, and why they have a chance.

[chazley]

So, this is a spinoff of the Spurs contenders thread, but I didn't want this post to get buried in there and feel it deserves it's own thread because it should be controversial and I feel like dominating some Spurstalk posters. Anyways, here is what was responded to me in the other thread:


When did Spurs > Celtics become a matter of fact? Even if they were and the C's somehow beat D-Wade and Co., Spurs would never get past Lakers so that's a moot point.

I believe Spurs fans have their hands over their eyes and won't look at the writing on the wall. The Spurs have been done for a long time.

Every year is another what if, woulda coulda year. How many of those do you need before you realize it's over?

The Spurs are down 1 legend. That's game over as far as championships are concerned.

As it stands, Spurs are have settled into a very good team that the contenders know they can beat whenever they want. Home town fans might get excited over a regular season win or a close loss against the real contenders but the rest of the league knows it's coming down to Lakers or Heat (maayybe C's).

This'll be fun.

We will never get past the Lakers, huh? That is far from the truth, my friend. Let's look at potential problems for the Lakers:

1) Ron Artest. He could simply blow up at any given moment. He finally has a trophy. Now that the drive to win a championship is somewhat dampered, will he pay at the same level as he did in the Finals? He's also on the wrong side of 30.

2) Lamar Odom. Also on wrong side of 30. Played in Finals, then for national team, then gets right back at it with new NBA season. You have to wonder what all that wear and tear will do to him, not to mention he has to deal with that behemoth Khloe.

3) Kobe is old. For like 3-4 years, people have mentioned Duncan is too old this, too old that. Hello, people... Kobe is younger than Duncan but they have similar amount of NBA games on the odometer. At some point, he will no longer be able to give them 30 every night, even though in his mind he will think he can. When that time comes (might've already. 6-24, and broke down completely in March), the Lakers will struggle for awhile.


Now, let me give reasons why the Spurs should be optimistic about their chances at winning a title:

1) Our team has TP/Manu coming back off of injuries and should have a full year to get us a good playoff position so TD can rest down the stretch.

This is huge, because our terrible playoff positioning and TP being injured made us have to play Timmy in almost every game and alot of minutes in March and April. TD accordingly didn't play up to his hefty expectations in the playoffs, as he is still capable of. In the first half of the season, he was the best PF in the league, and it wasn't close. He just got tired and tendinitis crept up near the All-Star break and affected him the rest of the season.

2) Manu was a superstar in February-March.

Everyone saw it. He was the best SG in the league during this time, and only D-Wade was in the convo with him during this time frame. His broken nose obviously impacted his play a ton. He has a dropoff after the incident, and TP coming back obviously affected him a little too cause he became less of an initiator on offense. I love him in the Hedo-type role, and it's a reason I believe we can trade Parker, but that's another story.

3) Tony is healthy and in a contract year.

Another big one that everyone is overlooking. Parker is the engine that runs this machine. He didn't have enough time to develop chemistry with Blair/RJ due to an early injury, then his big injury near the end of the season. He now has a year of experience to look back on with those 2 so he can better work with them to make both parties better. He played with a 3 his entire career that just sat in the corner on offense, and now has an athletic swingman in RJ who can do alot of things in the open court and in iso situations, and also a backup big that is capable of running a devastating pick-n-roll with him. Once Tony utilizes these new toys effectively, plus gets himself touches, we will have a great offense.

4) The development of the young guys, particularly DeJuan Blair and George Hill.

Both players could potentially have breakout seasons. Blair is already one of the best rebounders in the league, and George looked like a potential star against Dallas. Both have a ton of upside, and I think Pop is going to give them alot more responsibility this upcoming season, as he should. I also love Garrett Temple personally as a backup-PG for us, but George needs those minutes because it looks like TP is more likely to leave than stay, and George will become the starting PG by next year.

5) Tiago Splitter.

We just got the best big man not playing in the NBA. I expect something modest this upcoming season, but I think we found our starting center for the next 6-8 years. If he's averaging 12/8/1 block, in April, it would be AWESOME. His comments about leaving skin on the floor showed me the type of passion and heart this guy has, and he should be a great addition to our team.


Celtics, and why we are capable of beating them:

1) They're old.

Spurs are no longer the old team in the NBA that everyone loves to bash because they don't have any youth and athleticism. That team is now the Celtics.

Celtics are old at every position except PG (he's a pretty good PG tho if you haven't heard of him). KG is washed up, both O'Neals are washed up, Allen showed signs of slipping last year and no one in the league would be surprised if Pierce took a step back.

2) Will Rondo have anything left in the tank if they somehow get past the Heat in ECF?

Rondo has played basketball non-stop for 11 months and counting, and the upcoming season is right around the corner. When a player plays this long, durability and wear tear become an issue. Rondo is going to have to carry the Celtics for large chunks of the season. Will he be able to do that and them still perform at a high level in June of next year, which at that point he will have played for almost 20 months straight? My prediction: No. And in that case, a healthy Parker has an edge against him.

3) Spurs have more talent.

If you HAD to win a game in Junel, who would you take if your life depended on it? The Celtics top 5 players or the Spurs top 5 players?

Spurs obviously have more talent 6-12, so don't worry about that.

Let's go through each position.

At PG, it's Rondo > Parker it Rondo has the edge, but Parker is capable of outplaying Rondo because he has the quickness, plus a jumper. They way Rondo played against Orlando, though... I cannot pick against him.

At SG, it's Manu>>>Ray Allen, and it's not close

At SF, it's Pierce>>but RJ is capable of defending him, and Pierce looks to be losing a step.

At PF, it's Duncan>>>KG, and it's not close.

At center, it's a tossup because we don't know what Tiago will bring. If I had to guess though, I'd put my money on the Spurs (Tiago) being better in June than Shaq/Jermaine/Kendrick. All 3 have a bunch of issues.


And finally, how do we beat the Heat, the presumed favorites?

1) Experience

Simply put, we've been together longer and our core has won 3 championships. Lebron, quite simply, looked pitiful in last season's playoffs, and we absolutely spanked him in the '07 Finals. What we did to him really has no bearing on our prospects of slowing him down now, cause he is much better now and we don't have Bowen, but just felt like adding it in there :D. Anyways, I'm confident that we know exactly what to do in all playoff situations, whereas the Heat have a ton of unknown territory to explore.

2) We're better at 3 positions

PG, PF, and C. We have a massive advantage at PG if Tony returns to 08 form. At PF, Duncan cancels out Bosh on offense and is much better defensively. At center, the Heat are starting either Big Z or Joel Anthony. Any team in the NBA has an advantage at center over that (don't hold me to that). Udonis isn't a center, and if they start him there it will be funny.

3) Manu is capable of canceling out D-Wade for a couple games, and even capable of outplaying him once or twice.

Obviously D-Wade is a superstar and is a better player than Manu. But Manu is one of the best competitors to ever play in the NBA, and there will be nights where Manu amazes us like he always does. Overall though, D-Wade is just simply a better player.

4) Lebron, with D-Wade on his team, will not be as big of a factor. Plus, RJ/Hill can do at least a mediocre job guarding him.

First, Lebron will average at least 26-8-8 against us minimum in any series, so I just wanna say that so that what I say has some perspective. Lebron will crush RJ in a game or two in any potential series, but I think LBJ will be deferring to D-Wade overall, which makes us capable of sticking RJ on him and not getting slaughtered by him. I also think George has the ability to play LBJ straight up for stretches. Again, Lebron will still get lofty numbers, but I think D-Wade is option #1 on that team, and Manu is capable of matching him on certain nights.


Lemme know what you guys think.

[O.J Mayo]

The Spurs didn't re-sign Roger Mason Jr. Therefore, they won't stand a chance against the Heat, Celtics and Lakers. Heck, without Roger Mason Jr, they can't even beat the Mavericks.

[Phenomanul]

I'll say this here, cause it's something that is likely to get mentioned...

The official strategy for beating the Miami Heat is to find a willing suitor to hook up with Bron's momma... They would have beat the Celtics last year if not for Delonte's bad timing (and its subsequent effect on LeBron's performance).

I guess maybe that's why the Celtics signed Delonte West to a second stint... :lol

[O.J Mayo]

Just for all purposes of this thread, I must break the tradition of having more posts than chazley in his own thread, which by all means, is very difficult to accomplish, so I am going to start early.

[Brazil]

so this is true chaz is not RMJ :depressed

[O.J Mayo]

chazley's sig also proves nothing except that he is an extremely annoying butthurt insecure grey-named Spur fan who thinks Manu = D.Wade for a game or 2.

It's okay though since there are posters posting Manu > Dirk anyway.

[O.J Mayo]

Anyway, he is also the same idiot who thinks George Hill has the ability to even stay in front of LeBron James for a second or so on defense.

The Manu Ginobili was a superstar in February and March was also pulled out. I guess being a superstar in February and March is a very big thing nowadays.

[O.J Mayo]

Also, if this number 1 attention seeking poster starts a new thread every time someone responded to his crap, the entire forum would be filled up with his absolutely shitty Express News-like takes.

[Phenomanul]

chazley's sig also proves nothing except that he is an extremely annoying butthurt insecure grey-named Spur fan who thinks Manu = D.Wade for a game or 2.

It's okay though since there are posters posting Manu > Dirk anyway.

You probably weren't watching much B-ball in February or March of this year or were you?

Manu can take over games, and have the same impact as D-Wade or Kobe in those moments...

Most here admit that the latter two are better players than Manu... but you would be ignorant to history to claim that Manu wasn't capable of outplaying them...

[silverblackfan]

I love your confidence, but am still only thinking of the Lakers at this point. (And the Heat match ups are scary, until we see how they actually perform this year.)

I hate Garnet, and I do think he has declined, but every year Timmy and him put up pretty similar stats. I think Tim is the better player, but Duncan vs. Garnet comparison is closer than you state.
Throw in that the Celtics just have big front line that will wear on any team. If the Spurs get by the Lakers and the play the Celtics, it would be brutal on Tiago. Just a lot of big bodies to bang with.

[O.J Mayo]

You probably weren't watching much B-ball in February or March of this year or were you?

Manu can take over games, and have the same impact as D-Wade or Kobe in those moments...

Most here admit that the latter two are better players than Manu... but you would be ignorant to history to claim that Manu wasn't capable of outplaying them...

Can you read every of my posts? Do you actually believe Manu can sustain that against top teams in the playoffs? For the sake of this discussion, LeBron James was the man who destroyed Hollinger's calculator by playing like the best to ever play in the 2009 playoffs while Dwyane Wade put on one of the most unbelievable performances in the 2006 finals. And they have all gotten better.

There is no way anyone can say that Manu Ginobili can match the production of the reigning 2 time MVP for a series who hasn't reached his prime and a prime Dwyane wade who happens to be the best SG in the league.

Both these players play better in the playoffs and now they are together to increase their efficiency. Manu Ginobili isn't going to be able to match any one of them.

[rmt]

The Spurs have black holes named RJ and Bonner playing substantial minutes.

Splitter has much to learn about playing in the NBA and the Spurs system.

Manu, even when young, could not play big minutes. TD with his bad knees cannot last the whole season anymore. I wish we could put Manu on ice (not play them at all) until Jan/Feb and TD - until after the ASB (Manu takes longer to thaw out).

The Spurs don't have the size, length or toughness to beat the Lakers or Celtics in a 7-game series.

[O.J Mayo]

Oh, and this is the same bullshit that has players facing off in a 1 on 1 match. Did the NBA implement a 1 on 1 match? I thought it was always 5 on 5. This shitty Allanon-like takes on the Pau Gasol > LaMarcus Aldridge and then LeBron James > Matt Barnes crap really decides who is going to win a 7 game series.

[O.J Mayo]

I feel that my response towards Phenomanul deserves its own thread as it is extremely controversial, I think I should start a new thread about it. What should I call it? I am afraid it might get buried amongst all the other crap other posters have been shitting out. Maybe this will do.

"Why LeBron James and Dwyane Wade are way better than Manu Ginobili"

Then I shall write my arguments that usually don't make any sense and start off with a butthurt response about dominating posters. Of course, I would get the raving reviews.

[Venti Quattro]

funny how a well-rested pau gasol was ignored.

[SpurCharger]

It all Sounds Good and I do Hope it all Happens.... But In All Honesty, I Think We Cannot get by the lakers Unless Pau or kobe get injured....

[Muser]

Log back into Chieflion imo

[O.J Mayo]

I don't need posters to blow my cover like how they blew chazley's cover for being Roger Mason Jr.

[O.J Mayo]

Anyway, I want to see the first account bearing a Memphis Grizzlies bold name. And I must be the majority shareholder of this thread too.

[Phenomanul]

Can you read every of my posts? Do you actually believe Manu can sustain that against top teams in the playoffs? For the sake of this discussion, LeBron James was the man who destroyed Hollinger's calculator by playing like the best to ever play in the 2009 playoffs while Dwyane Wade put on one of the most unbelievable performances in the 2006 finals. And they have all gotten better.

There is no way anyone can say that Manu Ginobili can match the production of the reigning 2 time MVP for a series who hasn't reached his prime and a prime Dwyane wade who happens to be the best SG in the league.

Ummmm... I don't believe I ever claimed that Ginobili would outplay both Lebron and Wade... In fact I didn't even mention Lebron in my earlier response... That said, let's not forget that Manu has also outplayed him on at least two occasions (not including any Finals games from 2007 - which were more Parker's doing). He outplayed Lebron this year at San Antonio (I was there)... (during that same stretch I mentioned earlier)... and back in 2008 when he dropped 46 points on Lebron's Cavs in Cleveland... IIRC Manu shot 75% from the floor and dropped 3 point bombs from everywhere... LeBron switched on him to no avail...

As I suspected you're just saying what you're supposed to say... because you like most casual NBA fans only see what BSPN feeds you...

Fact of the matter is that Manu's "Super Manu" mode makes him as dangerous as any basketball player in the world... And even though I'd be the first to admit that SuperManu games will be rarerer from this point forward, suggesting that Manu isn't capable of such jaw-dropping performances would be an outright lie...



Both these players play better in the playoffs and now they are together to increase their efficiency. Manu Ginobili isn't going to be able to match any one of them.

Don't count your chickens before they hatch...

Both Lebron and Dwayne are ball dominant players... obviously both are elite players and they will undoubtibly hook up for awesome alley-oops and the such...

That said, a boost in their efficiency isn't a surefire thing... In fact, I'm going to go out on a limb and venture to say that both of them will average more turnovers than they averaged last year... though equally expecting an increase in their assists per game...

[Phenomanul]

Oh, and this is the same bullshit that has players facing off in a 1 on 1 match. Did the NBA implement a 1 on 1 match? I thought it was always 5 on 5. This shitty Allanon-like takes on the Pau Gasol > LaMarcus Aldridge and then LeBron James > Matt Barnes crap really decides who is going to win a 7 game series.

No, but we are talking about players capable of taking over games... Matt Barnes and LaMarcus Aldridge are players that have no merit being that discussion...

Manu on the other hand, has done it many a times, and will do it again...

[Phenomanul]

Now go and crawl back into your troll cave...

[O.J Mayo]

Suddenly, 2008 Manu Ginobili comes into the picture. WTF does a 2008 Manu Ginobili have to do with 2011 LeBron James or 2011 Manu Ginobili?

Suddenly, 2 ball dominant players are going to average more turnovers because they are playing with each other. What a joke.

And the premise of the entire argument was on a 7 game series where Wade would constantly outplay Ginobili with no offense to Ginobili, nothing to do with a regular season game.

LMAO BSPN. You seriously believe I watch their broadcasts? At least I am not in delusion like Manu > Dirk camp and now Manu = Wade for a few days camp. That is like telling the world I may win the lottery one day. That's so stupid.

[O.J Mayo]

No, but we are talking about players capable of taking over games... Matt Barnes and LaMarcus Aldridge are players that have no merit being that discussion...

Manu on the other hand, has done it many a times, and will do it again...

Because that was what the OP's idea meant, right? :rolleyes Do you know how to comprehend? Why do you think everything has to do with Manu Ginobili?

[fantasyfootball]

Chazley,

I agree with almost nothing you said but I certainly admire your fervor for basketball discussion. Only time can prove me right in your eyes (and maybe not even then) so we'll just have to see how the Spurs fare. I predict conference finals and then a 4-2 loss to the Lakers.

Back in the 90s, I was the same way with the Spurs. I always thought the Spurs were in the running when in reality they never were. It was always something - if Chuck Person shoots 42% from 3 and loses weight, if Charles Smith can get 10 rebounds, if Corey Alexander develops, if Sean Elliott could hit more free throws... all the close games were if this or that happened. I also thought all the Spurs were better than they were. In my mind, almost none of the Spurs were even tradeable. The truth was they were a pretender in the 90s. They were very good but never on the verge of winning a title. I just couldn't see it.

This team is seriously lacking in the talent department. They're a decent unit and they stretch the talent they do have a long ways but the Spurs have no aces left.

[Phenomanul]

Suddenly, 2008 Manu Ginobili comes into the picture. WTF does a 2008 Manu Ginobili have to do with 2011 LeBron James or 2011 Manu Ginobili?

Why fail to mention the game just this year?

Ginobili ripped the Cavs apart. Playing without Parker no less...

And if we're strictly talking hypotheticals, Lebron and D-Wade have yet to play a single game as NBA teammates...

They have played together in All-Star games and for Team USA... which brings me to my next point...



Suddenly, 2 ball dominant players are going to average more turnovers because they are playing with each other. What a joke.

The only data points we have with these two players as teammates... they both had an excessive amount of turnovers...

their per minute turnover rate was 3 standard deviations higher than where they normally average... fluke or not, don't expect them to gel immediately... or flawlessly...

Your simpleminded takes are weak.



And the premise of the entire argument was on a 7 game series where Wade would constantly outplay Ginobili with no offense to Ginobili, nothing to do with a regular season game.

No offense to Ginobili?

I figure you're assuming he falls asleep in the playoffs? ceases to play? Doesn't care to?

LOL

What a biased take... again weak. About as weak as that crunch-time layup Wade tried to score only to have it swatted out by Ginobili...



LMAO BSPN. You seriously believe I watch their broadcasts? At least I am not in delusion like Manu > Dirk camp and now Manu = Wade for a few days camp. That is like telling the world I may win the lottery one day. That's so stupid.

I think you should learn how to read before you spout your nonsense... :sleep

I've repeatedly stated that Wade was a better player than Manu... Nevertheless I will hold to the argument that Ginobili is capable of outplaying Wade on any given night despite that distinction. Apparently, you are unable to differentiate the context for either argument. That is why you fail...

[Phenomanul]

Oh... and find another way to up your post count... troll turd.

[O.J Mayo]

Once again, we have Phenomanul stating his obvious opinion that Dwyane Wade is better than Manu Ginobili and that a player can outplay another on any given night while completely ignoring that Manu Ginobili is already out of his prime while Wade is in his and that Wade is way more likely to outplay Manu Ginobili which matters in OP's shitty opinion that the Spurs would win a 7 game series against the Miami Heat. What a fuckin great argument. You certainly convinced me right there. So that is a biased and weak take?

How about taking out words out of thin air and stating that I am saying things such as Manu does not show up in the playoffs. I need to remind you that I am not ducks. It is fact that Dwyane Wade and LeBron James both have brought their games up to a ridiculously high level in their playoff runs and not strike hot for only a few games and then playing at their normal level again.

Here we go with the "Your opinion is weak" crap because I disagree with you only because a player's shot has been blocked by Manu Ginobili. Marcin Gortat is better than LeBron James because he blocked his shot. Great example to show why your opinion is better than mine of course, since you don't listen to BSPN and apparently I do, according to you, of course.

And again, saying that Manu Ginobili can outplay Dwyane Wade in any given day is like saying that Adam Morrison is a starting calibre player if he is hot from 3. Yes, it is possible but not likely, so how does that make a strong argument for the Spurs beating the Heat in a 7 game series?

[Galileo]

This was an excellent write-up. I agree.

[fantasyfootball]

There should be factions of Spurs/Basketball fans

ptac vs. ptas

PTAC is for people that believe the Spurs are contenders

PTAS is for people that believe the Spurs have no shot

[Phenomanul]

Once again, we have Phenomanul stating his obvious opinion that Dwyane Wade is better than Manu Ginobili and that a player can outplay another on any given night while completely ignoring that Manu Ginobili is already out of his prime while Wade is in his. So that is a biased and weak take?

How about taking out words out of thin air and stating that I am saying things such as Manu does not show up in the playoffs. I need to remind you that I am not ducks. It is fact that Dwyane Wade and LeBron James both have brought their games up to a ridiculously high level in their playoff runs and not strike hot for only a few games and then playing at their normal level again.

Here we go with the "Your opinion is weak" crap because I disagree with you only because a player's shot has been blocked by Manu Ginobili. Marcin Gortat is better than LeBron James because he blocked his shot. Great example to show why your opinion is better than mine of course, since you don't listen to BSPN and apparently I do, according to you, of course.

And again, saying that Manu Ginobili can outplay Dwyane Wade in any given day is like saying that Adam Morrison is a starting calibre player if he is hot from 3. Yes, it is possible but not likely, so how does that make a strong argument for the Spurs beating the Heat in a 7 game series?

All I'm saying is that you are vastly speculating on the 'greatness' of a team that's yet to hit the hardwood... We've yet to see the Heat this year... yet you are slamming me for trying to extrapolate the level of our player's game (Manu) from the context of games played as recently as this season...

In other words... Either both are false premises... or both are true... you can't slam me for speculating when you've been doing that since you entered the thread... comprende? :lol

Disagreement? Please... :wakeup

[O.J Mayo]

All I'm saying is that you are vastly speculating on the 'greatness' of a team that's yet to hit the hardwood... We've yet to see the Heat this year... yet you are slamming me for trying to extrapolate the level of our player's game (Manu) from the context of games played as recently as this season...

In other words... Either both are false premises... or both are true... you can't slam me for speculating when you've been doing that since you entered the thread... comprende? :lol

Disagreement? Please... :wakeup

You mean I should stop speculating in a thread where everything from the OP is speculation?

[Phenomanul]

You mean I should stop speculating in a thread where everything is speculation?

No... speculate at will... just don't slam others for doing so considering the gist of all your arguments are by very definition SPECULATIVE.

[O.J Mayo]

No... speculate at will... just don't slam others for doing so considering the gist of all your arguments are by very definition SPECULATIVE.

You mean I should stop trying to copy the OP and post everything which is speculation and then slam people for it? That is what the OP has done ever since he entered Spurstalk.

[Phenomanul]

I don't care about Chazly or the opening post. You quoted my post, and I countered.... So here we are.

Manu is capable of outplaying Wade this upcoming season. True or False?

Me: True

You: Well... technically yes, but Wade is hella better than Manu and Manu is past his prime, and Wade will be more efficient playing with 'Bron Bron... so False.. (though technically yes it can happen).

[2Cleva]

"If ifs and buts were candy and nuts, we’d all have a merry Christmas”

[O.J Mayo]

I don't care about Chazly or the opening post. You quoted my post, and I countered.... So here we are.

Manu is capable of outplaying Wade this upcoming season. True or False?

Me: True

You: Well... technically yes, but Wade is hella better than Manu and Manu is past his prime, and Wade will be more efficient playing with 'Bron Bron... so False.. (though technically yes it can happen).

Go back to the first page, you quoted me first therefore you have to argue my premise.

[21_Blessings]

1) Ron Artest. He could simply blow up at any given moment. He finally has a trophy. Now that the drive to win a championship is somewhat dampered, will he pay at the same level as he did in the Finals? He's also on the wrong side of 30.

Ron Artest blowing up at this point in his career is as likely as Duncan playing for the 2012 USA Olympic basketball team.

Also Duncan is older than Artest.


2) Lamar Odom. Also on wrong side of 30. Played in Finals, then for national team, then gets right back at it with new NBA season. You have to wonder what all that wear and tear will do to him, not to mention he has to deal with that behemoth Khloe.

He's a fucking bench player. :lol The Spurs have much bigger worries.

Duncan also older than Lamar Odom.


3) Kobe is old. For like 3-4 years, people have mentioned Duncan is too old this, too old that. Hello, people... Kobe is younger than Duncan but they have similar amount of NBA games on the odometer. At some point, he will no longer be able to give them 30 every night, even though in his mind he will think he can. When that time comes (might've already. 6-24, and broke down completely in March), the Lakers will struggle for awhile.

Yes Duncan is older than Kobe. Duncan was also eliminated in 4 games by a terrible defensive team while Kobe was winning back to back Finals MVPs.

[Mel_13]

lol at the insecure Laker Fan providing the detailed rebuttal to a troll's post.

[21_Blessings]

Yes I know my rebuttal to that super long ass troll OP was very detailed.

[benefactor]

Once again...didn't read past the first sentence. Obvious attention whore is obvious.

[chazley]

I'm just enjoying watching O.J. Mayo get annihilated by phenomanul. My OP just seeps greatness, so there's no need for me to respond to any of these subpar attempts at responses yet. I will eventually though.

[Ace]

And finally, how do we beat the Heat, the presumed favorites?

1) Experience

Simply put, we've been together longer and our core has won 3 championships. Lebron, quite simply, looked pitiful in last season's playoffs, and we absolutely spanked him in the '07 Finals. What we did to him really has no bearing on our prospects of slowing him down now, cause he is much better now and we don't have Bowen, but just felt like adding it in there :D. Anyways, I'm confident that we know exactly what to do in all playoff situations, whereas the Heat have a ton of unknown territory to explore.

2) We're better at 3 positions

PG, PF, and C. We have a massive advantage at PG if Tony returns to 08 form. At PF, Duncan cancels out Bosh on offense and is much better defensively. At center, the Heat are starting either Big Z or Joel Anthony. Any team in the NBA has an advantage at center over that (don't hold me to that). Udonis isn't a center, and if they start him there it will be funny.

3) Manu is capable of canceling out D-Wade for a couple games, and even capable of outplaying him once or twice.

Obviously D-Wade is a superstar and is a better player than Manu. But Manu is one of the best competitors to ever play in the NBA, and there will be nights where Manu amazes us like he always does. Overall though, D-Wade is just simply a better player.

4) Lebron, with D-Wade on his team, will not be as big of a factor. Plus, RJ/Hill can do at least a mediocre job guarding him.

First, Lebron will average at least 26-8-8 against us minimum in any series, so I just wanna say that so that what I say has some perspective. Lebron will crush RJ in a game or two in any potential series, but I think LBJ will be deferring to D-Wade overall, which makes us capable of sticking RJ on him and not getting slaughtered by him. I also think George has the ability to play LBJ straight up for stretches. Again, Lebron will still get lofty numbers, but I think D-Wade is option #1 on that team, and Manu is capable of matching him on certain nights.


Lemme know what you guys think.

Wow what a horribly delusional post. Manu out playing Wade and shutting him down? Hill/RJ guarding Lebron? Sorry but even looking at that match-up optimistically they just don't have much a chance.

[Ace]

I got trolled :lol

[chazley]

Wow what a horribly delusional post. Manu out playing Wade and shutting him down? Hill/RJ guarding Lebron? Sorry but even looking at that match-up optimistically they just don't have much a chance.

That's not what I said. I never said once that Manu would shut down Wade. I said he is capable of being on his level for 1-3 games in a playoff series. I also said RJ/Hill are capable of being mediocre defenders against LBJ, while also saying minimum he would average against the Spurs is 26/8/8.

How about TP vs. Carlos Arroyo? How about our far superior bench? We have advantages in other places. Let's see how much Wade/LBJ have left in the tank playing 42 minutes a night

[chazley]

Can you read every of my posts? Do you actually believe Manu can sustain that against top teams in the playoffs? For the sake of this discussion, LeBron James was the man who destroyed Hollinger's calculator by playing like the best to ever play in the 2009 playoffs while Dwyane Wade put on one of the most unbelievable performances in the 2006 finals. And they have all gotten better.

There is no way anyone can say that Manu Ginobili can match the production of the reigning 2 time MVP for a series who hasn't reached his prime and a prime Dwyane wade who happens to be the best SG in the league.

Both these players play better in the playoffs and now they are together to increase their efficiency. Manu Ginobili isn't going to be able to match any one of them.

Manu did what he did in February-March against almost exclusively the top teams. If anything, it just shows he will indeed show up big time in the spotlight.

I'd argue that we have not seen that '06 Finals D-Wade again. What he did in that Finals was the most amazing display of greatness I have ever seen.

Also, LBJ and D-Wade playing together might hurt their individual efficiency. Just depends on how you define 'efficiency' in basketball terms.

[Leonard Curse]

well i can say manu single handedly beat the orlando magic when they were on a ridiculous streak and this was without parker and tim duncan playing horrible if i remember correctly he also destroyed clev and the lakers i believe so i do think he has alot of game in him hes like steve nash in a way, IM NOT SAYING HES BETTER THAN D WADE i am saying he is still able to carry this team through some very tough teams, and i think what has been killing us is our role players and our coachs decisions illsay it right now coach pop has turned into a freaking stubborn old man and if he doesnt get back to coaching & teaching/encouraging mental and physical toughness than were fucked if pop pulls his small ball line up this year we should really consider replacing him he just doesnt look like he has that fire to get rings esp last year

[Man In Black]

Wow what a horribly delusional post. Manu out playing Wade and shutting him down? Hill/RJ guarding Lebron? Sorry but even looking at that match-up optimistically they just don't have much a chance.
Manu has pretty much scoreboard-owned DWade throughout all their games played against each other.
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4617696#post4617696

[Ginobilirules]

first off manu rules over wade' he does things that dwayne could never do wade is very good but manu is elite and has been winning on all levels with 3 rings and was a huge part each of those rings . wade only has 1 ring and has never won on every level like manu has. dont be blind to the fact that [manu is much better than wade.] manu is elite superstar wade is good but over rated and selfish unlike manu. manu rips wade apart when head to head'' i see this all the time. SO WAKEUP IDIOTS'' GINOBILI IS MUCH BETTER THAN WADE.

[Ace]

Manu has pretty much scoreboard-owned DWade throughout all their games played against each other.
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4617696#post4617696

Manu wasn't the focus of a great defensive team, he also had a great PF and a top PG by his side. As far as rings go Wade won as number one option and turned a series around with one of the greatest finals performances.

All which is irrelevant at this point because the Spurs are not the team they were in the past and Manu is not the player he once was. At this point Wade is the better player and only a homer holding on to the past would say otherwise.

[Man In Black]

Manu wasn't the focus of a great defensive team, he also had a great PF and a top PG by his side. As far as rings go Wade won as number one option and turned a series around with one of the greatest finals performances.

All which is irrelevant at this point because the Spurs are not the team they were in the past and Manu is not the player he once was. At this point Wade is the better player and only a homer holding on to the past would say otherwise.
To say that Wade clearly wins out would be a miscarriage of justice and show us that there are lazy fans who are coerced by the 4-letter. I'll say it again, if Manu was a Knick or a Celtic, he'd be called a demi-god. I pointed out the stats. And the fact that Manu gets all his as a sidekick shows you how big he can play. Spurs fan can attest to how big he plays when the other 2 are out due to injury. ARG Fan will tell you that it is Manu who optimizes their team when it's most called for.

If anything, the only reason that Pop doesn't let Manu do that is because he goes all out for this game. He's got to be protected from his competitiveness at times until it's time not to be. If Disney/ABC/4-letter didn't control it with their snide bitchy attitude, they would have let Ginobili co-MVP with Duncan in 2005. To say Manu isn't the player that he was would belie why the Spurs re-signed him to an extension. In fact, it's because HE IS THAT PLAYER, he got that extension. You'll see it. And when he blocks DWade on National TV Again, perhaps you'll finally recognize just how good he really is. I can tell you this, ARG missed him today but I can also say that I'm glad he got to rest this off-season.
1QiR0t7rw7g

[Ace]

To say that Wade clearly wins out would be a miscarriage of justice and show us that there are lazy fans who are coerced by the 4-letter. I'll say it again, if Manu was a Knick or a Celtic, he'd be called a demi-god. I pointed out the stats. And the fact that Manu gets all his as a sidekick shows you how big he can play. Spurs fan can attest to how big he plays when the other 2 are out due to injury. ARG Fan will tell you that it is Manu who optimizes their team when it's most called for.

If anything, the only reason that Pop doesn't let Manu do that is because he goes all out for this game. He's got to be protected from his competitiveness at times until it's time not to be. If Disney/ABC/4-letter didn't control it with their snide bitchy attitude, they would have let Ginobili co-MVP with Duncan in 2005. To say Manu isn't the player that he was would belie why the Spurs re-signed him to an extension. In fact, it's because HE IS THAT PLAYER, he got that extension. You'll see it. And when he blocks DWade on National TV Again, perhaps you'll finally recognize just how good he really is. I can tell you this, ARG missed him today but I can also say that I'm glad he got to rest this off-season.
1QiR0t7rw7g

I like said Manu can be a top player in the league when he is on but how often is that or when was the last time he has been able maintain that high level of play?

BTW putting a YouTube video of a play from two years ago doesn't say much.

[Man In Black]

RECOGNIZE! You espouse to the "ride your star player" theory. You're perfect for the 4-letter demographic, basketball fan easily swayed by dunks, scoring around 1 point per shot taken, and ball domination. I espouse to more of a balanced load. In San Antonio, while Tim would still be option 1, it's easy to label Parker and/or Ginobli as 1A/1B. That's how good the Big 3. I feel that this year, with the Big 3 well rested for the 1st time in years, with continued improvement from Hill, Blair, McDyess & especially Jefferson, add 1 solid pick & roll big who can defend and pass, then add the cohesion that Pop preaches, this team could beat Miami. When it gets down to it, outside of National Team play or All-Star games, these guys have no clue of how it really is going to be. I think Erik Spoelstra, is a good coach and I root for he guy since his heritage matches mine but I'm not sure he'll be able to rapidly turn Miami into this championship contender overnight like the Q ratings people hope. I've watched this game an awfully long time and watched many supposed All-Star teams tumble to failure.

Oh and the video was just for Spurs fans amusement and since it was DWade vs. Manu, I found it relevant.

[Ace]

RECOGNIZE! You espouse to the "ride your star player" theory. You're perfect for the 4-letter demographic, basketball fan easily swayed by dunks, scoring around 1 point per shot taken, and ball domination. I espouse to more of a balanced load. In San Antonio, while Tim would still be option 1, it's easy to label Parker and/or Ginobli as 1A/1B. That's how good the Big 3. I feel that this year, with the Big 3 well rested for the 1st time in years, with continued improvement from Hill, Blair, McDyess & especially Jefferson, add 1 solid pick & roll big who can defend and pass, then add the cohesion that Pop preaches, this team could beat Miami. When it gets down to it, outside of National Team play or All-Star games, these guys have no clue of how it really is going to be. I think Erik Spoelstra, is a good coach and I root for he guy since his heritage matches mine but I'm not sure he'll be able to rapidly turn Miami into this championship contender overnight like the Q ratings people hope. I've watched this game an awfully long time and watched many supposed All-Star teams tumble to failure.

Oh and the video was just for Spurs fans amusement and since it was DWade vs. Manu, I found it relevant.

:lmao

You think I wanted Wade to carry the team with no help? What do I want to see this year now that the Heat have their own big 3? I mean since you know already right? Wade did what a superstar should and carried a team of scrubs until now.

As for the Spurs beating the Heat in series. Not a chance of that happening period. First they must get past the Lakers and then some how without the defenders needed, stop Wade and Lebron. At this point Manu is past his prime and Wade is in his.

[DrSteffo]

Funny thing with chaz is that he always ignores defence. I don't even think he understands what the word means or its relevance.

Chaz, do you still think Hill played good D against Nash in the Suns series? Then why did we get swept?

[2Cleva]

Pointless to compare what SA can do against the East when they can't get by LA.

Hoping age hampers LA while ignoring 2 of 3 of SA's Big 3 are older than any of the top players on the Lakers (Especially when its been SA routinely running out of gas come playoff time) is as delusional as they come.

[picc84]

Manu could probably match Wade's output for a couple games during a 7-game series. However I honestly don't think a series between the Heat and Spurs would get past 4, so it wouldn't last long enough for that to happen.

Miami is going to be a historically great offensive team, and the Spurs just aren't a good defensive team anymore. With Bowen and a prime Duncan manning the middle they could probably hold down the paint well enough to mitigate some damage, but Wade and James defended by Dick and Manu with old Timmy guarding the rim....it would be ugly. One of them could average 40.

[TD 21]

Manu could probably match Wade's output for a couple games during a 7-game series. However I honestly don't think a series between the Heat and Spurs would get past 4, so it wouldn't last long enough for that to happen.

Miami is going to be a historically great offensive team, and the Spurs just aren't a good defensive team anymore. With Bowen and a prime Duncan manning the middle they could probably hold down the paint well enough to mitigate some damage, but Wade and James defended by Dick and Manu with old Timmy guarding the rim....it would be ugly. One of them could average 40.

Wrong. They're no longer historically great or even very good, but they're still one of the better defensive teams in the league. They finished 9th last season in defensive efficiency and they figure to be better next season with the addition of Splitter. Also, Jefferson, McDyess and Blair should be more comfortable with the rotation's.

The problem with the Spurs defense is it get's compared to what it used to be, which is unfair. If any other team finished 9th in defensive efficiency, guess what they'd be considered? A fairly good defensive team. So why aren't the Spurs?

[DrSteffo]

I agree that the Spurs is a fairly good defensive team, about 9th in the league. Problem is then there are 8 better teams on D and we would have to compensate by having better O than all those teams.

[picc84]

I should have said "very good". But good isn't good enough in todays NBA. You have to be great at it. Especially against a team like the Heat. They're going to make a lot of 'good' defenses look horrible.

[chazley]

Funny thing with chaz is that he always ignores defence. I don't even think he understands what the word means or its relevance.

Chaz, do you still think Hill played good D against Nash in the Suns series? Then why did we get swept?

Hill obviously has trouble defending quick pgs. That wont be a problem against heat or lakers. Hill has perfect body to defend a Wade, just needs to get it right mechanically and mentally. Plus, everyone assumes their offense is gonna be top notch... Lets remember heat played at one of the slowest paces in the league last year with zero post presence, which is incredible, not to mention theyve now added bosh who they have to feed. Also, their pgs are pitiful right now. Wade and lebron also might avg. The most turnovers for two teammates combined in history.

[Ace]

Hill obviously has trouble defending quick pgs. That wont be a problem against heat or lakers. Hill has perfect body to defend a Wade, just needs to get it right mechanically and mentally. Plus, everyone assumes their offense is gonna be top notch... Lets remember heat played at one of the slowest paces in the league last year with zero post presence, which is incredible, not to mention theyve now added bosh who they have to feed. Also, their pgs are pitiful right now. Wade and lebron also might avg. The most turnovers for two teammates combined in history.

:nope

[Chomag]

Well, in a world where age does not matter Spurs would allways be winners but...

[mingus]

if the Spurs can stay healthy they can beat anyone. it would be in every other teams best interest for the Spurs to be injured, otherwise they have their hands full.

[chazley]

:nope

Do u plan on posting anything beneficial in this thread, or just keep posting stuff a 4th grader heat fan could rebuttle with

[BadOdor]

How does a team go from getting swept in the second round to becoming contenders without pulling major moves?(getting splitter is not a major move).

And enough with the "this time tim/manu/tony will be healty!!!". There is even more chance right now that tim/manu will not be 100% come playoff time. There will be a race to make the playoffs in the west this year, and spurs cannot simply play duncan 25 minutes if they hope on making the post season.

Signing players like bonner/dick also makes me wonder about the direction the spurs organization wanna go...

[DrSteffo]

Hill obviously has trouble defending quick pgs. That wont be a problem against heat or lakers. Hill has perfect body to defend a Wade, just needs to get it right mechanically and mentally. Plus, everyone assumes their offense is gonna be top notch... Lets remember heat played at one of the slowest paces in the league last year with zero post presence, which is incredible, not to mention theyve now added bosh who they have to feed. Also, their pgs are pitiful right now. Wade and lebron also might avg. The most turnovers for two teammates combined in history.

:wow :lmao

[BadOdor]

Hill obviously has trouble defending quick pgs. That wont be a problem against heat or lakers. Hill has perfect body to defend a Wade, just needs to get it right mechanically and mentally. Plus, everyone assumes their offense is gonna be top notch... Lets remember heat played at one of the slowest paces in the league last year with zero post presence, which is incredible, not to mention theyve now added bosh who they have to feed. Also, their pgs are pitiful right now. Wade and lebron also might avg. The most turnovers for two teammates combined in history.

Hill couldn't stay in front of a 50 year old nash, and now he's gonna defend wade?

Not surprising this is coming from the maker of suck classics as "spurs need bonner".

[FuzzyLumpkins]

We have three guys that can still put up 30 any night.

If Splitter can play we will have two legitimate defensive 7 footers which will help us be more consistent on defense.

People are definitely putting the cart before the horse in these discussions. Right now its not Lakers vs. Spurs, its about to be an 82 game season. If we stay healthy, we can win 60 games and a good seed.

If we do that then you bet your ass we're contenders. Right now the season has not even started.

[BadOdor]

We have three guys that can still put up 30 any night.


How many times those guys put up 30 points last season?

[DrSteffo]

Not so many i guess. I love the Spurs but let's face it we will never be champions again until we seriously improve our D. The big 3 are our best defenders right now but they are not getting younger. We add some shooters and Splitter. That's fine but far from enough if u ask me.

[2Cleva]

How many times those guys put up 30 points last season?

LOL. Great question so I had to check for games of 30+

Parker did it once - 11/25 vs GS
Duncan did it twice - 12/15 vs Phx, 1/8 vs Dal
Ginobili did it three times - 3/8 vs Cle, 3/21 vs Atl, 3/26 vs Cle, 4/4 vs LA

7 times all season, twice vs Cle, once vs LA & Dal, and GS, Phx, Atl who should barely count because of no defense and uptempo play.

Hard to bank on any of them gettting 30.

[Ace]

Do u plan on posting anything beneficial in this thread, or just keep posting stuff a 4th grader heat fan could rebuttle with

Response fit the post perfectly. :tu

Athleticism is something that the Spurs struggle with greatly and next year being a year older won't help. You said Hill struggles against quick PGs then turned around and said he would be perfect for Wade. Last I checked Hill had a hard time with Nash. Hill also doesn't fight through screens well and Wade uses a lot in his game. Not mentioning that Wade is much stronger and much more athletic.

The match up of Lebron would be terror for the Spurs and with both Wade and Bosh who present match up problems themselves, just makes the case of the Spurs winning a 7 game series unlikely. The Spurs don't have a big with the foot speed to chase around Bosh. Duncan just can't dominate a series anymore and you could see it in the Suns series, where he should have had his way.

[TD 21]

LOL. Great question so I had to check for games of 30+

Parker did it once - 11/25 vs GS
Duncan did it twice - 12/15 vs Phx, 1/8 vs Dal
Ginobili did it three times - 3/8 vs Cle, 3/21 vs Atl, 3/26 vs Cle, 4/4 vs LA

7 times all season, twice vs Cle, once vs LA & Dal, and GS, Phx, Atl who should barely count because of no defense and uptempo play.

Hard to bank on any of them gettting 30.

That's far more a reflection of the way the Spurs play than it is any of their capabilities.

Here's their field goal attempts per game and minutes per game from last season...

Duncan: 13.9, Ginobili: 12.0, Parker: 12.8.

Duncan: 31.3, Ginobili: 28.7, Parker: 30.9

It's difficult to score 30 when you don't shoot even 14 times per game or average even 32 minutes per game, but it's much easier to do so when you shoot 21.5 times per game and play 38.8 minutes per game.

I know Lakers fans think real basketball is to have one phony, rapist, stats obsessed gunner firing away relentlessly, but there are still some teams that realize it's a team game.

[LakeShow]

How many times those guys put up 30 points last season?

Check


LOL. Great question so I had to check for games of 30+

Parker did it once - 11/25 vs GS
Duncan did it twice - 12/15 vs Phx, 1/8 vs Dal
Ginobili did it three times - 3/8 vs Cle, 3/21 vs Atl, 3/26 vs Cle, 4/4 vs LA

7 times all season, twice vs Cle, once vs LA & Dal, and GS, Phx, Atl who should barely count because of no defense and uptempo play.

Hard to bank on any of them gettting 30.

Mate! :lol

[BadOdor]

I know Lakers fans think real basketball is to have one phony, rapist, stats obsessed gunner firing away relentlessly, but there are still some teams that realize it's a team game.

Lakers basketball = repeat champ.

Spurs basketball = getting swept in the second round.



cue in "it's a conspiracy!!!111" post by grey named spur fan.

[DPG21920]

Lakers basketball = repeat champ.

Spurs basketball = getting swept in the second round.



cue in "it's a conspiracy!!!111" post by grey named spur fan.

You are a grey Laker fan :lol

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Lakers basketball = repeat champ.

Spurs basketball = getting swept in the second round.



cue in "it's a conspiracy!!!111" post by grey named spur fan.

Wow, how insightful. Well to actually discuss real basketball rather than your epeen, Bynum has played 35, 50 and 65 games over the last three years. Last year his knees were poor down the stretch and he would disappear some games because of it.

Now personally, I think Jackson jeopardized the young man's career but I would put the over-under on games played next year at about 50.

I will take the under.

Gasol is 30. Kobe is 32. Artest will be 31. Odom will be 31.

I know you think you are all wonderful now but as Spurs fans are all too aware of you are going to see your players begin to break down. One of your starters knees are just about shot and four others are going to decline in their physical skills. They are past their peaks and will only decline now.

You take it as a given that you are going to get an average of 70 games out of those guys again. Like I said its an 82 game grind were entering, not the playoffs.

[mingus]

since when does having a lot of guys be able to put up 30 on any given night even matter?

how many guys did Boston have who scored 30 points numerous times? what about Houston 2 years ago? OKC has Kevin Durant, who can put up 30 on any given night, but he was pretty much crap in that aspect against LA. they took LA to 7.

see, this is why i really like the Spurs chances for next year if they can stay healthy. the Spurs are probably going to be better than all those teams offensively when healthy, esp. now that they've addressed the spacing issues of last year with guys who can gun from Downtown. Spurs' shooting coach, Chip England, said that Neal is the best shooter he's seen since he's been with the Spurs. Anderson was lights out in college. they've also got Splitter now, who can help the Spurs get easy baskets.

so the question now is our defense. anybody who is even questioning the Spurs' offense is retarded. they're as good as anyone in the league in that aspect when healthy with the exception of Miami

with Splitter though we've now got another 7-footer to guard the paint. he's going to make the Spurs defense better without question. he's an automatic upgrade. right now it's all on our perimiter defense. it's on guys like Neal, Anderson, and Hill to play above average defense. if they can do that, the Spurs will be a force to be reckoned with and can definitely compete for a championship.

[BadOdor]

You are a grey Laker fan :lol

Tbh the grey named spur fan thing works cause it's a spurs board, don't think you can play the "grey named laker fan" card. Just doesn't sound right, you know?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

since when does having a lot of guys be able to put up 30 on any given night even matter?

how many guys did Boston have who scored 30 points numerous times? what about Houston 2 years ago? OKC has Kevin Durant, who can put up 30 on any given night, but he was pretty much crap in that aspect against LA. they took LA to 7.

see, this is why i really like the Spurs chances for next year if they can stay healthy. the Spurs are probably going to be better than all those teams offensively when healthy, esp. now that they've addressed the spacing issues of last year with guys who can gun from Downtown. Spurs' shooting coach, Chip England, said that Neal is the best shooter he's seen since he's been with the Spurs. Anderson was lights out in college. they've also got Splitter now, who can help the Spurs get easy baskets.

so the question now is our defense. anybody who is even questioning the Spurs' offense is retarded. they're as good as anyone in the league in that aspect when healthy with the exception of Miami

with Splitter though we've now got another 7-footer to guard the paint. he's going to make the Spurs defense better without question. he's an automatic upgrade. right now it's all on our perimiter defense. it's on guys like Neal, Anderson, and Hill to play above average defense. if they can do that, the Spurs will be a force to be reckoned with and can definitely compete for a championship.

Its because you have three guys that can score not the amount they can score that is important. Its about being able to defend them. You can double and rotate fairly easily against one player. Two becomes problematic and two is nigh impossible.

Duncan, Parker and Manu can create their own shots, trash a mismatch on a rotation, are excellent passers and hit tough shots. All three of them are.

[TDMVPDPOY]

not winnin shit since bonner is still on this team

[chazley]

Response fit the post perfectly. :tu

Athleticism is something that the Spurs struggle with greatly and next year being a year older won't help. You said Hill struggles against quick PGs then turned around and said he would be perfect for Wade. Last I checked Hill had a hard time with Nash. Hill also doesn't fight through screens well and Wade uses a lot in his game. Not mentioning that Wade is much stronger and much more athletic.

The match up of Lebron would be terror for the Spurs and with both Wade and Bosh who present match up problems themselves, just makes the case of the Spurs winning a 7 game series unlikely. The Spurs don't have a big with the foot speed to chase around Bosh. Duncan just can't dominate a series anymore and you could see it in the Suns series, where he should have had his way.

Spurs don't struggle against athleticism, they struggle against teams that spread the floor well. Huge difference. Heat have one shooter on their team, Mike Miller. Spurs are content to letting Mike Miller try and beat them and try to take the ball out of either Wade or Lebron's hands.

And please, Tony/Tim are matchup nightmares for Heat too. It's not like after Wade/Lebron, the remainder of the Heat players and the entire Spurs team is a wash. Spurs have a huge advantage at PG and at overall depth, and it's doubtful that Wade/Lebron are playing at 100% in June considering the massive amount of minutes they will be playing throughout the entire season.

Also, Duncan cancels out Bosh, don't kid yourself. Bosh is the least of the Spurs concerns. Bosh is a terrible defensive player, and when he is the only notable big on the roster, that is a massive concern. Duncan not only cancels him out on the offensive end, Duncan is 10x the help defender that Bosh will ever be.

[Ace]

Spurs don't struggle against athleticism, they struggle against teams that spread the floor well. Huge difference. Heat have one shooter on their team, Mike Miller. Spurs are content to letting Mike Miller try and beat them and try to take the ball out of either Wade or Lebron's hands.

And please, Tony/Tim are matchup nightmares for Heat too. It's not like after Wade/Lebron, the remainder of the Heat players and the entire Spurs team is a wash. Spurs have a huge advantage at PG and at overall depth, and it's doubtful that Wade/Lebron are playing at 100% in June considering the massive amount of minutes they will be playing throughout the entire season.

Also, Duncan cancels out Bosh, don't kid yourself. Bosh is the least of the Spurs concerns. Bosh is a terrible defensive player, and when he is the only notable big on the roster, that is a massive concern. Duncan not only cancels him out on the offensive end, Duncan is 10x the help defender that Bosh will ever be.

Your arguments are foolishly homer and totally off. First off, you say you doubt Lebron and Wade are 100% in June :lol but you think the Spurs who haven't in the last 2 years had enough left in the tank to even win a game in the 2nd round, make it to June? :lmao That's if they even make it that far cause afterall I don't see them getting past the Lakers.

Spurs struggles against the Suns spreading the floor was due to the Suns' great 3pt shooting and the bad D of the Spurs. Everyone was lost and out of place. Duncan against the Suns' athleticism just looked slow and helpless. So if your biggest anchor on defense struggles against athleticism, then I say its a problem.

Tony and Tim are hardly the night match up that Wade and Lebron present. Wade and Lebron are top 3 players in the league don't fool yourself. In the finals teams play a 8-9 man rotation with the starters play the majority of the minutes. So the bench is hardly a factor. Its all irrelevant anyway because the Spurs or anyone in the West doesn't get to the finals without getting past the Lakers.

[picc84]

Spurs playing in June. :lol

[DPG21920]

It's not inconceivable, so I don't know why you are laughing. It is not like the Spurs are a bunch of scrubs. Is it likely? No. But laughable, give me a break.

[mingus]

what's funny is that Laker's fans only show their insecurity and fear of the Spurs when they post in threads like this. the fact that Lakers' fans are just willing to argue about it, never mind stalk every thread in which the Spurs are mentioned as a possible threat, speaks for itself.

[BadOdor]

I just don't see how a team that got swept in the second round last season can contend without pulling major moves. Bringing in a guy who never played in the NBA is not a major move. Resigning Bonner and Dick are not major moves.

I guess blair/hill can improve, parker has a contract year coming up so he might play much better as well, but that's about as far as positives changes go. Manu/Duncan were healthy against the suns(despite spur fans constant excuses), and they are now 1 year older.

I don't think the spurs can even be considered a top 5 team anymore.

[Man In Black]

I just don't see how a team that got swept in the second round last season can contend without pulling major moves. Bringing in a guy who never played in the NBA is not a major move. Resigning Bonner and Dick are not major moves.

I guess blair/hill can improve, parker has a contract year coming up so he might play much better as well, but that's about as far as positives changes go. Manu/Duncan were healthy against the suns(despite spur fans constant excuses), and they are now 1 year older.

I don't think the spurs can even be considered a top 5 team anymore.

Does the broken nose affect Ginobili's game in any way? I'm just trying to see it from your point of view, since my former life as a college trainer would point out that having a broken nose means, you aren't as healthy as you could be.

Keep poking the zombie. Saying a team got swept last year isn't an indicator of what can happen this year. Since PHX didn't make the playoffs the season before last, did anyone think that they could make it to the conference finals?
Same linear logic, it doesn't apply.

[chazley]

Your arguments are foolishly homer and totally off. First off, you say you doubt Lebron and Wade are 100% in June :lol but you think the Spurs who haven't in the last 2 years had enough left in the tank to even win a game in the 2nd round, make it to June? :lmao That's if they even make it that far cause afterall I don't see them getting past the Lakers.

Spurs struggles against the Suns spreading the floor was due to the Suns' great 3pt shooting and the bad D of the Spurs. Everyone was lost and out of place. Duncan against the Suns' athleticism just looked slow and helpless. So if your biggest anchor on defense struggles against athleticism, then I say its a problem.

Tony and Tim are hardly the night match up that Wade and Lebron present. Wade and Lebron are top 3 players in the league don't fool yourself. In the finals teams play a 8-9 man rotation with the starters play the majority of the minutes. So the bench is hardly a factor. Its all irrelevant anyway because the Spurs or anyone in the West doesn't get to the finals without getting past the Lakers.

You obviously aren't a knowledgeable basketball fan, but I will bite.

My point is, Spurs are deep and their stars play 28-34 minutes per game in the regular season. The Heat trio will be playing 42+ min a game, every game, from October through June. Yes, I think the Spurs have a better chance at not being tired in June than the Heat do. Not to mention, Wade before last year was considered very injury-prone. That doesn't just go away, especially with his style of play. Of course, Spurs are injury-prone as well so point is moot. But if we're talking about which team is more fresh in a potential June matchup, it's the Spurs and it's not even close because our bench is really good and the Heat's is terrible.

Bosh isn't the athletic beast that Stoudemire is, and they have completely different games. Duncan struggles against Amare because Amare is a beast in the pick and roll and he's an athletic freak, and Duncan no longer has the foot speed to keep up with him, nor has he ever had the foot speed to keep up with him really. Bosh has a completely different game that is more dependent on finesse than athleticism, and Duncan will have an easier time defending him.

Again, the Spurs struggle against teams that spread the floor well, and the Suns were an absolutely disastrous matchup for us last year. It's the same scenario as the Warriors in '07 vs. the Mavs. I HONESTLY believe if we had played the Lakers we would've taken them to at least 6 and potentially could have won the series. Of course, we will never know...

[Ace]

You obviously aren't a knowledgeable basketball fan, but I will bite.

My point is, Spurs are deep and their stars play 28-34 minutes per game in the regular season. The Heat trio will be playing 42+ min a game, every game, from October through June. Yes, I think the Spurs have a better chance at not being tired in June than the Heat do. Not to mention, Wade before last year was considered very injury-prone. That doesn't just go away, especially with his style of play. Of course, Spurs are injury-prone as well so point is moot. But if we're talking about which team is more fresh in a potential June matchup, it's the Spurs and it's not even close because our bench is really good and the Heat's is terrible.

Bosh isn't the athletic beast that Stoudemire is, and they have completely different games. Duncan struggles against Amare because Amare is a beast in the pick and roll and he's an athletic freak, and Duncan no longer has the foot speed to keep up with him, nor has he ever had the foot speed to keep up with him really. Bosh has a completely different game that is more dependent on finesse than athleticism, and Duncan will have an easier time defending him.

Again, the Spurs struggle against teams that spread the floor well, and the Suns were an absolutely disastrous matchup for us last year. It's the same scenario as the Warriors in '07 vs. the Mavs. I HONESTLY believe if we had played the Lakers we would've taken them to at least 6 and potentially could have won the series. Of course, we will never know...

Your the one who actually thinks the Spurs will be playing in June and I'm not knowledgeable? Spurs have been done for 3 years and are not even in the top 5 in league at this point. Same team that got swept in the second round.

[chazley]

Your the one who actually thinks the Spurs will be playing in June and I'm not knowledgeable? Spurs have been done for 3 years and are not even in the top 5 in league at this point. Same team that got swept in the second round.

Let me ask you a question. Take only March/April and what we did against Dallas, forget about the Suns for sec, where would you have ranked us in the league compared to how every other team playing during the same time period? If you say anywhere but top 3, you just do not know basketball. Bottom line is, we ran into a team that had the perfect personnel to take us out, and the 07 Warriors vs the Mavs was a perfect example. Some teams just have the edge in match ups/style of play against certain teams.

That Suns team no longer exists. We match up well against other teams in the West in my opinion. I was one of the people who REALLY wanted to play the Lakers in the first round last year because I knew we would've had a shot when we were at our peak like we were.

And we are not the same team that got swept in the second round. Hill/Blair/Parker/RJ will all be improved, and Duncan was a top 5 player last year, so to say he might drop off this year is to say he might only be a top 8-10 player in this league. Manu is obviously at or near his peak as evidenced last February/March.

Get a clue please.

[BadOdor]

Does the broken nose affect Ginobili's game in any way? I'm just trying to see it from your point of view, since my former life as a college trainer would point out that having a broken nose means, you aren't as healthy as you could be.

Here we go again, Excuses. This is like kobe fan who claims kobe was "injured" because of his finger:(:(:(

If you step on the court, you are healthy enough to play. No excuses.



Keep poking the zombie. Saying a team got swept last year isn't an indicator of what can happen this year.

So you don't think what a team did last playoffs is an indicator of what they will do next time around?:lol(Ceteris Paribus).



Since PHX didn't make the playoffs the season before last, did anyone think that they could make it to the conference finals?


No one thought they would. They got lucky with an injured Portland team and an old, not very good spurs team.

If your argument is that improbable things happen, then I agree. It's very improbable that the spurs will make it even as far as the WCF.

[BadOdor]

Manu is obviously at or near his peak as evidenced last February/March.
Get a clue please.

Yeah, Manu's play against the suns really blew people away, huh?

"cue in his fucken nose was broken:(:(:(:(:( post.

[O.J Mayo]

Let me ask you a question. Take only March/April and what we did against Dallas, forget about the Suns for sec, where would you have ranked us in the league compared to how every other team playing during the same time period? If you say anywhere but top 3, you just do not know basketball. Bottom line is, we ran into a team that had the perfect personnel to take us out, and the 07 Warriors vs the Mavs was a perfect example. Some teams just have the edge in match ups/style of play against certain teams.

That Suns team no longer exists. We match up well against other teams in the West in my opinion. I was one of the people who REALLY wanted to play the Lakers in the first round last year because I knew we would've had a shot when we were at our peak like we were.

And we are not the same team that got swept in the second round. Hill/Blair/Parker/RJ will all be improved, and Duncan was a top 5 player last year, so to say he might drop off this year is to say he might only be a top 8-10 player in this league. Manu is obviously at or near his peak as evidenced last February/March.

Get a clue please.
LMAO delusional thinking Duncan was a top 5 player last season. LeBron, Wade, Kobe, Dwight, Durant and some other players were better than Duncan. Your opinion, as usual sucks.

Suddenly wanting to talk about April. Does the playoffs only last for 1 month?

How do people who disagree with you not know basketball? It is the opposite. You just don't know shit about basketball.

[Ace]

Let me ask you a question. Take only March/April and what we did against Dallas, forget about the Suns for sec, where would you have ranked us in the league compared to how every other team playing during the same time period? If you say anywhere but top 3, you just do not know basketball. Bottom line is, we ran into a team that had the perfect personnel to take us out, and the 07 Warriors vs the Mavs was a perfect example. Some teams just have the edge in match ups/style of play against certain teams.

That Suns team no longer exists. We match up well against other teams in the West in my opinion. I was one of the people who REALLY wanted to play the Lakers in the first round last year because I knew we would've had a shot when we were at our peak like we were.

And we are not the same team that got swept in the second round. Hill/Blair/Parker/RJ will all be improved, and Duncan was a top 5 player last year, so to say he might drop off this year is to say he might only be a top 8-10 player in this league. Manu is obviously at or near his peak as evidenced last February/March.

Get a clue please.

So if I don't agree with you, I don't know anything about basketball? :lol
Spurs did not look like a top 3 team in the first round as the Lakers, Cavs and Boston looked much better. How the Spurs looked in the first round is irrelevant anyways as is the second that they looked gassed. You named players that were on last year's team but say its not the same team :lmao

Ginobili is at his peak? :lol :lol He's past his prime and now a year older. I don't know what I find laughable the fact that you really made those arguments or that you labeled yourself the #1 poster.

[Ace]

LMAO delusional thinking Duncan was a top 5 player last season. LeBron, Wade, Kobe, Dwight, Durant and some other players were better than Duncan. Your opinion, as usual sucks.

Suddenly wanting to talk about April. Does the playoffs only last for 1 month?

How do people who disagree with you not know basketball? It is the opposite. You just don't know shit about basketball.

The guy is the idiot who got owned by a bunch of Spur fans and claimed victory. I don't know if he is being a homer or is just stupid. Duncan a top 5 last year :lol

[Man In Black]

Ginobili is at his peak? He's past his prime and now a year older
EXPLAIN!!!! Don't give us opinion...Prove it!

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Interesting thread. Jerry West broke his nose just about every season and still led his team to many finals. Look at photos of his nose late in his career, it's nasty. He waited until he retired to get it fixed.

Injuries and age attack every team at some point. All I can say is, the Lakers may be the favorite in the west, but they aren't a lock. Look at Magic Johnson's career. Lakers were favored to make the finals in his first 11 seasons, but the Rockets beat the Lakers twice and the Suns got them once. If the Lakers lose a western playoff series, another team gets to the finals. To me, the Spurs would have just as good a shot as any other Western team. Plus, they have a core with championship experience. If Spurs win the west, why couldn't they win the finals? Remember, many thought LA and Boston wouldn't make it to the finals last year when the playoffs started.

[BadOdor]

EXPLAIN!!!! Don't give us opinion...Prove it!

You want people to prove that is he 1 year older?:rolleyes

[Ace]

EXPLAIN!!!! Don't give us opinion...Prove it!

Just watch his play for the whole season.

[Man In Black]

LMAO delusional thinking Duncan was a top 5 player last season. LeBron, Wade, Kobe, Dwight, Durant and some other players were better than Duncan. Your opinion, as usual sucks.

Suddenly wanting to talk about April. Does the playoffs only last for 1 month?

How do people who disagree with you not know basketball? It is the opposite. You just don't know shit about basketball.

By what standard are you using? Let's just make sure that there is quantifiable analysis is done in your ranking. IS IT?

[Man In Black]

Just watch his play for the whole season.
Observation is only a partial barometer. If he has a better statistical year than any other he's had in his career, does that mean, because he's a year older like you say, that he isn't in his prime?

Just want to make sure you guys understand the whole statistical argument. Because the bulk of you wise-asses, don't use any to support your arguments.

[Ace]

By what standard are you using? Let's just make sure that there is quantifiable analysis is done in your ranking. IS IT?
You mind telling us how Duncan was a top 5 player last season?

[Ace]

Observation is only a partial barometer. If he has a better statistical year than any other he's had in his career, does that mean, because he's a year older like you say, that he isn't in his prime?

Just want to make sure you guys understand the whole statistical argument. Because the bulk of you wise-asses, don't use any to support your arguments.

Its not need for the given. Basically all the arguments from Spurs fans are "if"

[BadOdor]

Observation is only a partial barometer. If he has a better statistical year than any other he's had in his career, does that mean, because he's a year older like you say, that he isn't in his prime?

Just want to make sure you guys understand the whole statistical argument. Because the bulk of you wise-asses, don't use any to support your arguments.

I don't understand your argument. Manu is a year older and is not longer in his prime. Are you really trying to argue that manu is still in his prime?:wtf

[Ace]

I don't understand your argument. Manu is a year older and is not longer in his prime. Are you really trying to argue that manu is still in his prime?:wtf

I think his last post was what if Manu isn't past his prime :lmao

[Leonard Curse]

I think his last post was what if Manu isn't past his prime :lmao


you act as if theres no "ifs" in your upcoming season, cmon man who in the hell is going up against dwight howard or keeping him from getting offensive rebounds????? bosh?? hahaha oh wait i forgot you have big Z....please my friend oh and "IF" theres not one single injury to the 3 allstars then yes i see yall doing pretty good i still dont see you getting past the celtics, so tell me what happens if lets say D wade gets injured ?
you guys are so depleted its ridiculous yeah lebron can carry you past the timberwolves but none of the big west teams thats for sure, so just like we say if everyones healthy thats what your betting on too is it not?
all im saying is dont be so ignorant to think your team has an easy road ahead of them i would actually take them behind the celtics

[Ginobilirules]

i can't stand it when i read a bunch of uneducated idiots like this o.j. mayo grizzlie fan and this idiot homer ace character

wake up"' get a life get real"" Ginobili is still in his prime for about another two yrs and he's still better than wade at this point too"' not just for a game or two either"' but just better PERIOD"" especially when they play head to head wade has fits with manu on the defensive end especially when manu guards him"'. wade has a hard time guarding manu for sure. i've witnessed this over and over and manu is the 2nd best sg only behind kobe. manu's a better defender shooter and competitor and overall player period.

[Ginobilirules]

ace is an idiot manu is better period over wade wakeup jackass"' wade has been over rated for yrs manu's better in every way""

[chazley]

Ginobili is not better than Wade, sorry.

[chazley]

Its not need for the given. Basically all the arguments from Spurs fans are "if"

This is hilarious.. and all your arguments about the Heat who haven't played a single game together yet contain no 'if's' right? rofl...

[Ace]

i can't stand it when i read a bunch of uneducated idiots like this o.j. mayo grizzlie fan and this idiot homer ace character

wake up"' get a life get real"" Ginobili is still in his prime for about another two yrs and he's still better than wade at this point too"' not just for a game or two either"' but just better PERIOD"" especially when they play head to head wade has fits with manu on the defensive end especially when manu guards him"'. wade has a hard time guarding manu for sure. i've witnessed this over and over and manu is the 2nd best sg only behind kobe. manu's a better defender shooter and competitor and overall player period.
You want me to wake up and pretend Manu is still in his prime?

[Man In Black]

Those who are too lazy to provide data to support their hypotheses are straight talking out of their ass. Looking at you Odor and not-really-an-Ace.

Ginobili is not better than Wade, sorry.
I have statistical analysis that say otherwise. If Manu was the go-to guy, he could probably average 25, 5 & 8, but again, he can't do that in a full 82 game season. But he could for say a stretch of 30 games or so. That's winning time and if he's healthy, watch out!

Again...support your hypotheses lazy asses! If you can't, then I claim yet another dim-witted victim in the message board wars. :cooldevil

[Ace]

If Manu was the go-to guy, he could probably average 25, 5 & 8, but again, he can't do that in a full 82 game season.

So I guess he can't then can he? To bad the NBA season is not only 30 games :lol

[ohmwrecker]

Do stupid people naturally become Heat fans, or does being Heat fan cause stupidity?

[Ace]

Do stupid people naturally become Heat fans, or does being Heat fan cause stupidity?

Lol grey name Spurs fan

[ohmwrecker]

Lol grey name Spurs fan

So, you're saying that it doesn't matter?

[Ace]

So, you're saying that it doesn't matter?
Do you think the Spurs will make the finals?

[ohmwrecker]

Do you think the Spurs will make the finals?

Will? No. Could? Yes.

[Man In Black]

So I guess he can't then can he? To bad the NBA season is not only 30 games :lol

Riddle me this WACE, how many games average is the NBA playoffs should you make it to the finals?
If each series goes 7, then we can say that it's about what 28 games?

YOU FOLLOW ME NOW?

You're a loser. If you really knew hoops, you'd know I was telling you that Ginobili is money when it counts most. So you were saying?

[Ace]

Riddle me this WACE, how many games average is the NBA playoffs should you make it to the finals?
If each series goes 7, then we can say that it's about what 28 games?

YOU FOLLOW ME NOW?

You're a loser. If you really knew hoops, you'd know I was telling you that Ginobili is money when it counts most. So you were saying?


If Manu was the go-to guy, he could probably average 25, 5 & 8, but again, he can't do that in a full 82 game season.

So now your going to say you were talking about the playoffs along?

[Man In Black]

So now your going to say you were talking about the playoffs along?

Ahem....lack of comprehension appears to be one of your strong suits.


That's winning time...

The playoffs are what matters most of course, that's why it's called winning time, but hey, even in regular season, every time they've met, Ginobili has exceeded Wade's production and done so in a more efficient manner.

[Ace]

The playoffs are what matters most of course, that's why it's called winning time, but hey, even in regular season, every time they've met, Ginobili has exceeded Wade's production and done so in a more efficient manner.
So wait you actually believe the Spurs make the finals? :lmao

[admiralsnackbar]

So wait you actually believe the Spurs make the finals? :lmao

I don't know which is worse: arguing that the Spurs' chances of a Finals appearance are good, or douchebags who started jocking Miami a few month ago because their odds of reaching the finals became so good.

Hmmm.

[pad300]

On the interest of making trouble,

"Spurs' chances of a Finals appearance are good"

Define good. There are 30 NBA teams and each has a chance of appearing in the Finals every year. Is being in the top 15 of these chances a good chance? The top 10? The top 6?

The Spurs are definitely top 15, very likely top 10, and perhaps top 6...

[anonoftheinternets]

I don't know which is worse: arguing that the Spurs' chances of a Finals appearance are good, or douchebags who started jocking Miami a few month ago because their odds of reaching the finals became so good.

Hmmm.

ace is a member of the newly formed miami mavericks franchise and appears to be bent on trolling spurs fans instead of focusing on laker fans like he is supposed to be doing.

[Man In Black]

So wait you actually believe the Spurs make the finals? :lmao


Ahem....lack of comprehension appears to be one of your strong suits.



The playoffs are what matters most of course, that's why it's called winning time, but hey, even in regular season, every time they've met, Ginobili has exceeded Wade's production and done so in a more efficient manner.

See this is exactly what losing posters do all the time, I point out and define what's most important to understand and then you, BECAUSE YOU ARE LOSING, ATTEMPT MISDIRECTION. Ginobili's time in the playoff's when healthy is documented. If you followed basketball as much as I do, you'd know that.

Understand this (W)ace. You beating me is like a nail talking to a hammer. And you should know, THE HAMMER WINS EVERY TIME!

[Ace]

See this is exactly what losing posters do all the time, I point out and define what's most important to understand and then you, BECAUSE YOU ARE LOSING, ATTEMPT MISDIRECTION. Ginobili's time in the playoff's when healthy is documented. If you followed basketball as much as I do, you'd know that.

Understand this (W)ace. You beating me is like a nail talking to a hammer. And you should know, THE HAMMER WINS EVERY TIME!

You already beat yourself but don't seem to have the comprehension skills to see it. You say Ginobili is better than Wade but are only posting stats from when they went head to head. The fact you fail to mention is that Ginobili wasn't the one guarding Wade majority of the time.

I already stated that the once great defense of the Spurs were cause of Wade's struggles, as they were are able to focus on making him take tough shots. Manu benefitted from having Tim and Tony by his side making the opposing defense focusing on him not as easy.

At this point Wade is the better player and your to much of a homer to understand or just to stupid. Now I'm really interested in how you think the Spurs stop Lebron? Since your convinced they will beat the Heat. Hammer :lol

[Ace]

In layman's terms Wade is a franchise player and Ginobili is a role player. No disrespect to him but its the cold hard truth that your failing to see. :ace

[Ace]

ace is a member of the newly formed miami mavericks franchise and appears to be bent on trolling spurs fans instead of focusing on laker fans like he is supposed to be doing.

Mavericks? :lmao

I do troll Lakers fans. Just look at the hate towards the Heat they been spewing lately. Just wait till they fail to 3 peat, that's when the fun begins.

[Man In Black]

Finally, something I agree with you on. THERE WILL BE NO THREEPEAT!

[Man In Black]

You already beat yourself but don't seem to have the comprehension skills to see it. You say Ginobili is better than Wade but are only posting stats from when they went head to head. The fact you fail to mention is that Ginobili wasn't the one guarding Wade majority of the time.

I already stated that the once great defense of the Spurs were cause of Wade's struggles, as they were are able to focus on making him take tough shots. Manu benefitted from having Tim and Tony by his side making the opposing defense focusing on him not as easy.

At this point Wade is the better player and your to much of a homer to understand or just to stupid. Now I'm really interested in how you think the Spurs stop Lebron? Since your convinced they will beat the Heat. Hammer :lol
Please, this is a TEAM GAME. I posted what they did for their teams. Is it DWade's fault that he was getting his ass kicked regularly by Ginobili and the Spurs? Yeah it was, because he wasn't as efficient, nor did he maximize what he had at home. Why didn't DWade try to stop Ginobili?

I pointed out that MIA won 3 games in their series during Wade's time there. I know Wade is PERCEIVED AS a better player, but in a big game situation, Ginobili has only won at every level he's been in. Let's say they are both Top 4 SG. I'll say Bean is the best but the rest of the rankings are dependent upon what factors a team needs. For the Spurs, what Manu brings, fits this team best. So, to me he's at #2. It's not just my opinion.

At his best and healthiest, Manu is just a step below Kobe Bryant

[Ace]

Please, this is a TEAM GAME. I posted what they did for their teams. Is it DWade's fault that he was getting his ass kicked regularly by Ginobili and the Spurs? Yeah it was, because he wasn't as efficient, nor did he maximize what he had at home. Why didn't DWade try to stop Ginobili?

I pointed out that MIA won 3 games in their series during Wade's time there. I know Wade is PERCEIVED AS a better player, but in a big game situation, Ginobili has only won at every level he's been in. Let's say they are both Top 4 SG. I'll say Bean is the best but the rest of the rankings are dependent upon what factors a team needs. For the Spurs, what Manu brings, fits this team best. So, to me he's at #2. It's not just my opinion.
Couple years ago I would agree but now he's merely a role player.

[Man In Black]

Couple years ago I would agree but now he's merely a role player.
I just want to point out that guys like Kevin McHale, Robert Parish, Sidney Moncreif, Jeff Hornacek, and Randy Smith were all considered role players, in addition to being pivotal stars for their teams.

[chazley]

Couple years ago I would agree but now he's merely a role player.

lol at Manu being a role player. Role players cannot carry their teams.

[Ace]

lol at Manu being a role player. Role players cannot carry their teams.

Lol at being the only one ignorant enough here to say otherwise

[chazley]

Lol at being the only one ignorant enough here to say otherwise

You honestly believe that I am the only one here who thinks Manu isn't a role player? How many times do you want to get owned in this thread before you stop posting? You haven't had one good point yet.

You obviously didn't watch games in February/March.

[Ace]

You honestly believe that I am the only one here who thinks Manu isn't a role player? How many times do you want to get owned in this thread before you stop posting? You haven't had one good point yet.

You obviously didn't watch games in February/March.

Owned? :lmao

The fact you say February/March like its the only time basketball is played, you just owned yourself. When Manu plays at a high level beyond the first round then I got owned.

[chazley]

Dude, all you do is take what other people are saying and say it's wrong. You come up with nothing on your own and just act like everything everyone else says is just stupid. When you decide to post something useful let me know.

[Ace]

Dude, all you do is take what other people are saying and say it's wrong. You come up with nothing on your own and just act like everything everyone else says is just stupid. When you decide to post something useful let me know.

So when someone doesn't agree with you its wrong?

I even made another thread showing you that's its not just my opinion that Manu is past his prime but the opinion of others as well. Yet, even when other Spurs fans agree your still to ignorant to come to grips with the reality of it.

[chazley]

In that thread, the prevalent opinion was Manu, when healthy, is a top notch SG in this league. Not that he was a role player. Stop putting words in people's mouths.

[Ace]

In that thread, the prevalent opinion was Manu, when healthy, is a top notch SG in this league. Not that he was a role player. Stop putting words in people's mouths.

So answer me this if Manu is not role player then would you build a team around him? Is he a franchise player?

[FuzzyLumpkins]

So answer me this if Manu is not role player then would you build a team around him? Is he a franchise player?

Do you ever do anything other than ask questions that you try and pass off as rhetorical.

Your question is flawed. There are more categories of players than franchise and roleplayer. If Manu's role is to score from the perimeter, be able to get into the lane easily, be an excellent passer, good man defender, great help defender and a great leader than sure hes a role player.

You are such a doucher. Miami has not done shit. There are also more than a few questions surrounding them. Chemistry on offense and in the lockerroom, how the refs are going to respond to two different players who have depended on star treatment on the same team, spares at the PG and pivot, a starting 5 that lacks defense, health, James needing to adjust to playing on the baseline like forwards typically do and Wade being unable to do so.

LA got taken to 7 games and nearly lost that one to a 3rd seed Boston so why they think they are unbeatable sure locks is hilarious.

For us it comes down to health. Parker was hurt all year and never got on track but hes young and coming out well rested. Everyone wants to talk about Splitter, RJ, Hill, Blair and Anderson but Duncan and Manu both at stretches carried this team last season showing they still have it in them. They just got dinged esp Duncan.

Both of them are coming into the season with a full offseason of rest and if the big three can be healthy coming down the stretch then you bet your ass we are contenders.

All this talk of finals is fucking stupid. Its all about matchups in the playoffs and you have no idea what those are going to be until March. At least wait until the AllStar break before babbling about the playoffs. Your bluster is meaningless.

[chazley]

Do you ever do anything other than ask questions that you try and pass off as rhetorical.

Your question is flawed. There are more categories of players than franchise and roleplayer. If Manu's role is to score from the perimeter, be able to get into the lane easily, be an excellent passer, good man defender, great help defender and a great leader than sure hes a role player.

You are such a doucher. Miami has not done shit. There are also more than a few questions surrounding them. Chemistry on offense and in the lockerroom, how the refs are going to respond to two different players who have depended on star treatment on the same team, spares at the PG and pivot, a starting 5 that lacks defense, health, James needing to adjust to playing on the baseline like forwards typically do and Wade being unable to do so.

LA got taken to 7 games and nearly lost that one to a 3rd seed Boston so why they think they are unbeatable sure locks is hilarious.

For us it comes down to health. Parker was hurt all year and never got on track but hes young and coming out well rested. Everyone wants to talk about Splitter, RJ, Hill, Blair and Anderson but Duncan and Manu both at stretches carried this team last season showing they still have it in them. They just got dinged esp Duncan.

Both of them are coming into the season with a full offseason of rest and if the big three can be healthy coming down the stretch then you bet your ass we are contenders.

All this talk of finals is fucking stupid. Its all about matchups in the playoffs and you have no idea what those are going to be until March. At least wait until the AllStar break before babbling about the playoffs. Your bluster is meaningless.

Five stars.

[Ace]

Yet with all those "questions" surrounding Miami they still are much more likely to win then the Spurs. Like it or not. :ace

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Yet with all those "questions" surrounding Miami they still are much more likely to win then the Spurs. Like it or not. :ace

The 2004 US Olympic team had James, Wade, Duncan, Stoudemire, Iverson and Anthony. They came in third.

You do not even know what Miami's chances are.

[Ace]

The 2004 US Olympic team had James, Wade, Duncan, Stoudemire, Iverson and Anthony. They came in third.

You do not even know what Miami's chances are.
So you disagree in that Miami's chances are better than the Spurs?

[chazley]

So you disagree in that Miami's chances are better than the Spurs?

Dude, honestly, do you post anything other than rhetorical questions?

[Ace]

Dude, honestly, do you post anything other than rhetorical questions?

Do you even post anything other than non-sense that continuing gets you owned?

[Man In Black]

Do you even post anything other than non-sense that continuing gets you owned?
I answered a question you posed and then I asked you a relevant question in return, and what did you do? You asked Spurs Fan for help by starting a thread.
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162175


That is the very definition of getting owned. RECOGNIZE! :flag:

[2Cleva]

Ya'll can't handle the truth.

http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162251

[Ace]

I answered a question you posed and then I asked you a relevant question in return, and what did you do? You asked Spurs Fan for help by starting a thread.
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=162175


That is the very definition of getting owned. RECOGNIZE! :flag:

I've answered your question just took a different approach so even you would understand that I'm not trolling. Your just a bigger homer than I thought and still really believe that Manu is better than Wade which laughable itself. Now I just can't take you serious.

[Man In Black]

I've answered your question just took a different approach so even you would understand that I'm not trolling. Your just a bigger homer than I thought and still really believe that Manu is better than Wade which laughable itself. Now I just can't take you serious.
In other words, I kicked your ass up and down this message board so instead of continuing the debate, you've raised the white flag and surrendered? Yeah I thought so.

If you're thinking that I'm just a homer and what I post is bullshit conjecture, just like you ALWAYS DO, well then..if I post that this part from a national magazine:

SG Manu Ginobili
Manu continues to get the short shrift, despite his enduring popularity, because he plays so few minutes per game. But when you balance his overall efficiency and pace? He's just a small step behind Kobe Bryant. If not even with him.

Did you see the name Wade up there? I didn't. Now, I've given you stats, I've pointed out that if Wade was so good, then why didn't he defend Manu. I then pointed out his last game against Miami where he kills Wade & Company by himself, with no Parker and Duncan not scoring 1 point until the 2nd half.

You want to beat me? Then give us FACTS, not conjecture. If you just avoid me, then it's like I said. You've raised the white flag. I get that a lot from posters who want to battle me. Here's my flag-> :flag:

[Ace]

:lol How can anyone take you serious if you really believe that? Manu, at one point in his career I would say was the better of the two, but at this point its not debatable. Stop trying to compare the two from the 2 games they play a season. If you really want to compare who's better then you would look at season stats. You keep saying I gave up like your begging me to. :lol

[ohmwrecker]

In how many threads are the two of you engaged in the same argument?

[Ace]

In how many threads are the two of you engaged in the same argument?
Not really much of a argument as its not a debatable subject, but one to many. :lol

[chazley]

Not really much of a argument as its not a debatable subject, but one to many. :lol

You've been dominated and humiliated every time you post.

Now ask another rhetorical question.

[chazley]

And just for some reference.. Wade is without a doubt my favorite NBA player not in a Spurs uniform, and his dominance in the 06 Finals is the greatest performance in a series I have ever witnessed. I literally own 2 jerseys, a Manu jersey and Wade's. Again, he is the better player, but Manu can match him for 1 or 2 games or even outplay him. I don't see how you cannot accept that that may be a possibility.

[Ace]

You've been dominated and humiliated every time you post.

Now ask another rhetorical question.
I've owned both you and Man In Black so bad that's actually sad. Your just to stupid to realize you've been owned. Hell, you even think you didn't get owned in the Mason thread and when every Spurs fan was laughing at your stupidity. Now move along kiddo

[Man In Black]

I've owned both you and Man In Black so bad that's actually sad. Your just to stupid to realize you've been owned. Hell, you even think you didn't get owned in the Mason thread and when every Spurs fan was laughing at your stupidity. Now move along kiddo
Man...you're just like a Laker bandwagon fan. I know more about his team than he does, and I own you too....You guys have a bad habit of being PREMATURE.

Get back to it...Let's battle preemie boy! And just so you stop embarassing yourself, in proper context, you're TOO much of an IDIOT for you to understand. But hey, I'll oblige, if you want a continual ass-kicking. You might have some people follow you. Hell even sequ and ducks have followers. :hat

[Ace]

And just for some reference.. Wade is without a doubt my favorite NBA player not in a Spurs uniform, and his dominance in the 06 Finals is the greatest performance in a series I have ever witnessed. I literally own 2 jerseys, a Manu jersey and Wade's. Again, he is the better player, but Manu can match him for 1 or 2 games or even outplay him. I don't see how you cannot accept that that may be a possibility.

Point is Wade is the better player, but you butt buddy thinks otherwise. Your also the idiot who thinks Hill can guard Wade. Spurs have no answer for LeBron and apparently neither do you. LeBron can dominate a series far better than Tim can at this point in their respective careers.

[Ace]

Man...you're just like a Laker bandwagon fan. I know more about his team than he does, and I own you too....You guys have a bad habit of being PREMATURE.

Get back to it...Let's battle preemie boy! And just so you stop embarassing yourself, in proper context, you're TOO much of an IDIOT for you to understand. But hey, I'll oblige, if you want a continual ass-kicking. You might have some people follow you. Hell even sequ and ducks have followers. :hat

Go back to the other thread, your already getting bukkaked there and there's no need for it here too.

[chazley]

Point is Wade is the better player, but you butt buddy thinks otherwise. Your also the idiot who thinks Hill can guard Wade. Spurs have no answer for LeBron and apparently neither do you. LeBron can dominate a series far better than Tim can at this point in their respective careers.

Again, all you do is say rhetorical questions. Quote one instance in this thread where you have 'owned' me, and ill give you three more.

[Ace]

Again, all you do is say rhetorical questions. Quote one instance in this thread where you have 'owned' me, and ill give you three more.
Where was the question? I simply stated a fact.

[chazley]

You are quite possibly the worst poster of all time.

[Ace]

You are quite possibly the worst poster of all time.

Yet you and Man In Black are the only ones who think so. I can live with that being everyone else seems to think your an idiot and Man In Black is a homer. We'll see who's right in June and I'm willing to bet your not around for that.

[Ace]

Hill obviously has trouble defending quick pgs. That wont be a problem against heat or lakers. Hill has perfect body to defend a Wade, just needs to get it right mechanically and mentally.
:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

[chazley]

:lmao :lmao :lmao :lmao

Another quality post from Ace.

[BadOdor]

Another quality post from Ace.

Ace is right. Your post is absolutely laughable. Hill couldn't stay in front of nash, and you think he will somehow guard Wade, who is much faster and stronger than nash?

Yeah, good luck with that.

[chazley]

Ace is right. Your post is absolutely laughable. Hill couldn't stay in front of nash, and you think he will somehow guard Wade, who is much faster and stronger than nash?

Yeah, good luck with that.

First off, I'd love to see some actual numbers as to how much Hill actually guarded Nash when Parker is on the court. Not to mention, Nash killed whoever guarded him because we as a team couldn't stop the pick and roll with Nash/Stoudemire, who along with Malone/Stockton might've been the more devastating pick and roll partners of all time.

Second, Hill has the body to better defend a Wade than he does a Nash. Nash is more of a quirky, quick type, not to mention is quite possibly the best shooter in the NBA, where Wade has a much more traditional speed, even though he is deceptively quick, and lacks a consistent 3-pt shot.

People forget Nash is a first-ballot hall of famer and back-to-back MVP, who last season was arguably still in his prime.

[Ace]

First off, I'd love to see some actual numbers as to how much Hill actually guarded Nash when Parker is on the court. Not to mention, Nash killed whoever guarded him because we as a team couldn't stop the pick and roll with Nash/Stoudemire, who along with Malone/Stockton might've been the more devastating pick and roll partners of all time.

Second, Hill has the body to better defend a Wade than he does a Nash. Nash is more of a quirky, quick type, not to mention is quite possibly the best shooter in the NBA, where Wade has a much more traditional speed, even though he is deceptively quick, and lacks a consistent 3-pt shot.

People forget Nash is a first-ballot hall of famer and back-to-back MVP, who last season was arguably still in his prime.
Ok now you just made it obvious you don't watch basketball. Nash killed Hill and anyone watching would know how bad it was. Wade has traditional speed? Really? Yeah now I'm sure you just started watching basketball and don't really know much.

[chazley]

Ok now you just made it obvious you don't watch basketball. Nash killed Hill and anyone watching would know how bad it was. Wade has traditional speed? Really? Yeah now I'm sure you just started watching basketball and don't really know much.

Do you just sit around and wait for me to post something thoughtful, and then bash it to try and sound like you have a clue about basketball? How about you prove me wrong with facts or an informed opinion rather than just spewing your basketball-retardedness all over my thread.

[cantthinkofanything]

Do you just sit around and wait for me to post something thoughtful, and then bash it to try and sound like you have a clue about basketball? How about you prove me wrong with facts or an informed opinion rather than just spewing your basketball-retardedness all over my thread.

:toast LMAO at "basketball-retardedness".

[Rummpd]

the back and forth arguement is really pretty silly - if the Spurs got through the West (and it is not probable but certainly plausible) and if the Heat got by both the Magic and Celtics (another if that is more probable but not a lock) - it would be a whole Spurs team that had gelled and had an stout team exterior defense that put pressure on the ball; then funneled players to the timbers inside where this year Splitter and Duncan could well be again the "the Spurs line in the sand"

The bottom line = Hill is a fine defender, but no one can stop a Wade or James from going off if they are hot but they can be somewhat contained, and Hill/Manu/Parker/Duncan and Splitter can also be potentially very good offensively etc.

It would take a lot for this Spurs team to beat a young "stud" ridden team like the Heat - but who would have thought that when the Lakers had Malone, Payton, Byrant and Shaq that the Spurs would give them a serious scare (and might have beat them nigh a dubious 0.4 "miracle) and then the Pistons would finish them? NOTHING IN THE NBA IS A LOCK AND THE SPURS AND MANY OTHER TOP TIER TEAMS ARE NOT GOING TO STAND IN AWE AT THE HEAT's 2 superstars and the over-rated Bosh.

Bring on the season.

[Ace]

Do you just sit around and wait for me to post something thoughtful, and then bash it to try and sound like you have a clue about basketball? How about you prove me wrong with facts or an informed opinion rather than just spewing your basketball-retardedness all over my thread.
Wow, you actually put thought in to that?

[chazley]

Gonna bump cause I wanna debate this more and I think my first post is excellent, even though it is slightly outdated.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

This is the portion I found most ridiculous.


4) Lebron, with D-Wade on his team, will not be as big of a factor. Plus, RJ/Hill can do at least a mediocre job guarding him.
Downplaying any factor Lebron will have is absurd. He's Lebron. And I don't see how having a mediocre defensive assignment is any kind of upside. Compared to what? Leaving him open?

First, Lebron will average at least 26-8-8 against us minimum in any series, so I just wanna say that so that what I say has some perspective. Lebron will crush RJ in a game or two in any potential series,
If you admit that he'll average that at the minimum, that further contradicts your previous defensive assignment point. I don't see how with those stats already admitted, any defensive assignment would be positive. And he'll crush RJ in a game or two? RJ hasn't even proved that he's meshing well with the team yet, I don't see how anyone can argue that Lebron won't annihilate him for less than one game of the entire series.

but I think LBJ will be deferring to D-Wade overall,
Based on what?

which makes us capable of sticking RJ on him and not getting slaughtered by him.
26-8-8 is a slaughter.

I also think George has the ability to play LBJ straight up for stretches. Again, Lebron will still get lofty numbers, but I think D-Wade is option #1 on that team, and Manu is capable of matching him on certain nights.
The thought of Hill being James' matchup is sickening. If Lebron will get his numbers, then what does clarifying the first and second option on the team matter? James gets his stats. Manu can possibly match Wade, but Wade will still get his too.

[Muser]

Duncan would shit on the Heats bigs, but Wade/LeBron would be too much.

[chazley]

This is the portion I found most ridiculous.

Downplaying any factor Lebron will have is absurd. He's Lebron. And I don't see how having a mediocre defensive assignment is any kind of upside. Compared to what? Leaving him open?

If you admit that he'll average that at the minimum, that further contradicts your previous defensive assignment point. I don't see how with those stats already admitted, any defensive assignment would be positive. And he'll crush RJ in a game or two? RJ hasn't even proved that he's meshing well with the team yet, I don't see how anyone can argue that Lebron won't annihilate him for less than one game of the entire series.

Based on what?

26-8-8 is a slaughter.

The thought of Hill being James' matchup is sickening. If Lebron will get his numbers, then what does clarifying the first and second option on the team matter? James gets his stats. Manu can possibly match Wade, but Wade will still get his too.

Lol where do I start...

I said he will have less of an impact. Are you trying to argue that he will do as much for this Heat team as he did for the Cavs? Also, never said anything about 'upside'. I said they could do a mediocre job guarding him. That isn't some kind of glowing endorsement of their lockdown defensive abilities.

I believe if LBJ averaged 26-8-8, we could beat them in a series. He is capable of 35-10-10, which would mean we did a good job as a team guarding him.

Based on the fact LBJ has deferred to teammates for his entire career, none of which were even on the same planet as D-Wade. Wade will be used as a pure scorer on this team in my opinion, with LBJ more of a setup guy playing alot of PG, or point forward.

26-8-8, by LBJ's standards, is not a slaughter.

Can't really respond to last statement cause I'm not sure if you disagree with me or not. I honestly believe RJ and Hill have the ability to at least make LBJ work.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Lol where do I start...

I said he will have less of an impact. Are you trying to argue that he will do as much for this Heat team as he did for the Cavs?
If he puts up the 26-8-8, then that's already enough of an impact.

Also, never said anything about 'upside'. I said they could do a mediocre job guarding him. That isn't some kind of glowing endorsement of their lockdown defensive abilities.
Then using it as an argument as to why the Spurs can beat them is pointless.

I believe if LBJ averaged 26-8-8, we could beat them in a series. He is capable of 35-10-10, which would mean we did a good job as a team guarding him.
Yes, but fact remains that if he puts up anywhere near those stats, we're in trouble. His stats are obviously going to go down, but the bigger reason why they would is because he has Bosh and Wade to share it with.

Based on the fact LBJ has deferred to teammates for his entire career, none of which were even on the same planet as D-Wade. Wade will be used as a pure scorer on this team in my opinion, with LBJ more of a setup guy playing alot of PG, or point forward.
Even going by that logic, it's unreasonable to believe that James will merely back down when faced with the pressure he has had before. On the Heat, he could play point forward and show his impact somewhere else late in the game. Or he could break free when the focus is on Bosh and Wade. He's becoming more of a team player, and I don't see that as much of a knock on him as you do.

26-8-8, by LBJ's standards, is not a slaughter.
It doesn't matter by who's standards. I don't know about you, but I'm definitely not okay with someone putting up those kinds of stats against the Spurs no matter who it is. Going by stats on paper, the understanding that there was some defensive improvement by whoever is guarding James and also happily accepting those stats that he puts up are two different ideas.

Can't really respond to last statement cause I'm not sure if you disagree with me or not. I honestly believe RJ and Hill have the ability to at least make LBJ work.
I believe Lebron is too big for Hill to compete with, and to me RJ hasn't shown enough improvement to rely on him for defense, especially against Lebron. Agree to disagree, I guess.