I've got a problem...

[anti_troll]

This seems like a good place to get some help, short of hiring a shrink. Professional help is good and all, but I'm not so far gone that a handful of acquaintances shouldn't be able to give me some legitimate advice/help. I know that with the genuine helpful comments, I'll also get destroyed by the trolls, and I'm OK with that. Comes with the territory, and if I didn't want to get made fun of I'd pay the money to hire a shrink. So here it goes...

I am afraid of women. There I said it. In public situations, I am fine, I can make anyone laugh, and smile, and feel comfortable. It's when it comes down to approaching a girl I find attractive and end by asking her on a date. I just can't do it. Even as I sit here typing this, I think to myself "that is not a hard thing to do at all, just approach, offer small talk, if it seems like she is feeling me, ask her if she is free to hang out sometime". When the time comes in real life, I get as far as noticing the attractive girl I would like to ask out on a date. I see her and fear (of rejection?) (of not being able to find the words to speak to her?) grabs a hold of my body. I am petrified. Down right terrified at the thought of walking up to this beautiful stranger. Instead of thinking of ways to start a conversation, I start thinking of reasons why I should not approach her. Among those reasons are, and not limited to; "I'm too drunk", "I don't look my absolute perfect best right now" "I have a busy week coming up and dont have time for a date this week", etc. etc. etc. I'm the king of excuses for not talking to a girl and I can come up with ANY reason to not approach a girl I find attractive. The result is feeling like a total loser and that I'll never find a woman because I'm too much of a pussy to even give it a chance. Now all those reasons themselves should be motivation enough to overcome my fear and just approach and talk to her, and I know that, I tell myself that in those situations. But then the petrifying fear creeps over me again and I cannot do it.

Let me get one thing straight. I am a good looking guy. I am in shape, I work out. I am good at sports. Like I said earlier, I have a great personality and can make anyone laugh, smile, and feel comfortable. I have NO GOOD REASON for not approaching girls. It's just when it comes to these particular situations, I lose control and something holds me back.

Let me get another thing straight. I have been with some of the most beautiful women you could ever meet. I'm talking, a couple of them, model beautiful. How did that happen? They approached Me, this is something that seemed to happen a little more frequently when I was a little younger (around the beginning of college, I am 28 now). So I guess I never really thought that the burden of starting a relationship would be 100% on me. I haven't had a beautiful woman approach me in probably 5 years. I'm to the point where I realize that those incidents in my younger years were probably the result of being in the right time and the right place. "Flukish" if you will. So knowing that it is now up to me to go after the women I want to have a relationship with, terrifies me, given my situation, or perceived inability to approach women. What is holding me back? Does anyone know? What am I missing? I feign confidence, I know I can satisfy and woman and keep her interest, but deep down inside I know I'll never get the chance to because I can't even get my foot in the door.

Now down to the really sad part. I am 28 years old and I have only asked ONE girl (who did not approach me first) on a date. Let me say that again. I AM 28 YEARS OLD AND I HAVE ONLY ASKED ONE GIRL OUT ON A DATE. What happened? She said YES! (Again, why am I so scared to approach girls if I have a 100% success rate?) Now here is the even sadder part, Of all the women I have approached, or who have approached me, and I have established a meaningful relationship with, I have had sex with only, get this... TWO of them. One, who was pretty, but totally not my type, finally just threw herself at me. The other was a long term girlfriend (who I still have issues with to this day, but that's another story). Two women out of about 15 girl that I have had serious, meaningful relationships with. That's bad. Let me explain this turn of events... I COULD have had sex with everyone of these girls, I wanted to, and should have. My problem comes back to something holding me back. The same fear that stops me from approaching attractive girls in public, stops me from making the appropriate moves to get laid in private. FUCKED UP RIGHT?? WHAT IS WRONG WITH ME?? The excuses start flying around in my head again; "I don't have a condom", "sometimes I can't stay hard when I use condoms and I don't know this girl well enough to go at it without", "I dont have any gum", "People are in the house, they'll hear us or bust in on us", and the big one... old reliable... "she doesnt want me to make a move on her." The King of Excuses, that's me. You can imagine what all of these missed opportunities does to my psyche and my confidence going forward. Instead of satisfying these wonderful, beautiful girls desires, I send them away (figuratively and literally) wanting and confused about what just happened. I send them away wondering "was it me?" "is he ashamed of something?" when I could be sending them away knowing that the desire was mutual and that I have NOTHING to be ashamed of, in fact I have things I should be very PROUD of. If I had done what I should have done, as a man, my actions would be breeding confidence in my personal and sexual life, instead, my actions breed self doubt, pity, and lack of confidence.

Now I feel like I am past this point, I've matured beyond the level of being uncertain in private situations with women. My long term girlfriend helped me with that. I feel confident in the fact that I can pick up on signals and move appropriately on them now. The problem now remains, Can I ever get a woman in the bedroom with me again if I can't even approach a girl and get her in a date with me. The one time I mentioned I asked a girl out and she said yes was sort of cheating myself. I knew the girl previously, just as an acquaintance, and had friends that knew her personally. I was assured that she did not have a boyfriend and I pounded a couple cans of liquid courage before I nutted up and asked her. It was not smooth, and rather to the point, but she sort of liked that in me and agreed to accompany me on a date. It was awkward, but it worked, even though it didnt give me a lot of confidence in my future abilities to ask a girl out. It was a practice run, for sure, but I still dont feel the freedom or confidence to get out in the field and do it again without the same type of assurances and liquid confidence I had before.

Help me SpursTalk, you're my only hope. (That is so sad :depressed)

Sorry it was so long, thanks to those who took the time to read it.

[koriwhat]

i only read a few sentences, sorry.

think of it this way... it's a numbers game so play until you hit a homerun!

edit: ok i just finished reading it all. wow, that was... anyhow, you think about the little things too much man.

[Cry Havoc]

Am completely disappointed by a lack of Bel-Air in this post.

[anti_troll]

i only read a few sentences, sorry.

think of it this way... it's a numbers game so play until you hit a homerun!
I can't take you're advice seriously unless you've read the whole thing. Thanks for letting me know you only read a little bit of it. It's a complicated situation I am living and I dont even think 6 paragraphs paints a clear enough picture to show what I am going through.

[koriwhat]

I can't take you're advice seriously unless you've read the whole thing. Thanks for letting me know you only read a little bit of it. It's a complicated situation I am living and I dont even think 6 paragraphs paints a clear enough picture to show what I am going through.

maybe you've invested too much into your "ethics" or "morals" or whatever you want to call them. maybe too much into believing every chick you get with has to be "the one". whatever it is, you're not going to find much of an answer to your problem from some internet messageboard. play the field and realize in order to get what you want you must go for it head first with everything you've got. confidence is only built by being confident even if at first that confidence is a facade.

[anti_troll]

maybe you've invested too much into your "ethics" or "morals" or whatever you want to call them. maybe too much into believing every chick you get with has to be "the one". whatever it is, you're not going to find much of an answer to your problem from some internet messageboard. play the field and realize in order to get what you want you must go for it head first with everything you've got. confidence is only built by being confident even if at first that confidence is a facade.
it has nothing to do with ethics or morals. How can I get out and "play the field" if I am petrified by the bright stadium lights? so to speak

[anti_troll]

you're not going to find much of an answer to your problem from some internet messageboard.
I've been here for a while, I've seen some solid advice passed back and forth between people in need and people who have been there before.

[Cry Havoc]

it has nothing to do with ethics or morals. How can I get out and "play the field" if I am petrified by the bright stadium lights? so to speak

You might want to think twice before consulting koriwhat for advice. :lol

[koriwhat]

btw, last week i asked this cute little mexican chick out from peiwei and well... i got the "my boyfriend actually works with me, he's right over there." hahaha!

i don't talk to anyone at that peiwei but i do eat there a ton when i work at my other job and for the past couple weeks this chick has been initiating conversation after conversation with me. we talk about everything from mexico to music and all things in-between and so you can understand why i thought she had a bit of interest.

anyhow, the other week i order my food as usual. before my food was cooked this chick brings me some wonton soup for free, because it's her favorite soup there, and also brings me some limes, because she loves lime juice in her soup. and so i start to think, "well maybe i should ask her out sometime." anyhow, i didn't ask her out because of the soup but because she's cool to talk with and her body is killer.

well, shot down! anyhow, like i said before. it's a numbers game and maybe the next chick i come across works with her man too and so it goes... keep on trying. there's nothing to be ashamed of or lose confidence over if there's no mutual interest. just move along and remember, you actually asked her out!

[anti_troll]

You might want to think twice before consulting koriwhat for advice. :lol
I'm addressing everyone with my responses.

[koriwhat]

You might want to think twice before consulting koriwhat for advice. :lol

and why's that? because i am trolled here daily? pshhh...

[anti_troll]

btw, last week i asked this cute little mexican chick out from peiwei and well... i got the "my boyfriend actually works with me, he's right over there." hahaha!

i don't talk to anyone at that peiwei but i do eat there a ton when i work at my other job and for the past couple weeks this chick has been initiating conversation after conversation with me. we talk about everything from mexico to music and all things in-between and so you can understand why i thought she had a bit of interest.

anyhow, the other week i order my food as usual. before my food was cooked this chick brings me some wonton soup for free, because it's her favorite soup there, and also brings me some limes, because she loves lime juice in her soup. and so i start to think, "well maybe i should ask her out sometime." anyhow, i didn't ask her out because of the soup but because she's cool to talk with and her body is killer.

well, shot down! anyhow, like i said before. it's a numbers game and maybe the next chick i come across works with her man too and so it goes... keep on trying. there's nothing to be ashamed of or lose confidence over if there's no mutual interest. just move along and remember, you actually asked her out!

as silly as it sounds, there is no greater feeling than overcoming a fear, actually asking a girl out in my case

[redzero]

Women have diseases, OP. Stay away.

[anti_troll]

Women have diseases, OP. Stay away.
lol. yes this is one of my excuses to not approach a girl or to not "make my move"

I'm not looking for one-night-stands. I'm looking for relationships, and if our relationship becomes sexual, I'd know her well enough by that point to know she is as squeaky clean as I am.

[koriwhat]

as silly as it sounds, there is no greater feeling than overcoming a fear, actually asking a girl out in my case

like i said, you won't find an answer here as to how you will overcome your fear of asking a woman out. the easy answer to your question is to... ask a woman out!

fuck that! for practice... ask every woman out! just keep doing it over and over until it becomes second nature. like driving a manual, you gotta get into first gear first and foremost!

[Cry Havoc]

Women have diseases, OP. Stay away.


http://www.meme-shop.com/wp-content/uploads/wpsc/product_images/Joseph-Ducreux-DISREGARD-FEMALES-ACQUIRE-CURRENCY.jpg

[koriwhat]

haha CH i love that photo!

[jack sommerset]

I'm addressing everyone with my responses.

Get spur calf tats.

[anti_troll]

like i said, you won't find an answer here as to how you will overcome your fear of asking a woman out. the easy answer to your question is to... ask a woman out!

fuck that! for practice... ask every woman out! just keep doing it over and over until it becomes second nature. like driving a manual, you gotta get into first gear first and foremost!
i'll try, but the fear will grip me again. seriously I will take steps to improve my situation and keep this thread updated. I am not one to complain about something and not work towards solutions. But this is beyond an "easier said than done" situation. I have serious mental blocks.

[lebomb]

Definitely a problem with gender. Sound like you want to come out of the closet and announce you are indeed a faggot. In my professional opinion of course.

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

As paradoxical as this might sound the best thing for you to do is to dive right in and get shot down a couple of times. In reading that it sounds like fear of failure is the biggest hurdle. From there, just approach it like any other skill you would want to develop and practice, learn from mistakes, and keep at it. In sports terms think like baseball, not chess. If it's the right girl you don't have be two steps ahead of anything, you just have to be ready for the next pitch. Don't go up to a woman wondering how you'll get her number, go up to her thinking how you're going to hold a conversation for the next 60 seconds. If it goes bad you've just spent one minute of your life learning what not to do. Keep that mindset front and center.

[koriwhat]

i'll try, but the fear will grip me again. seriously I will take steps to improve my situation and keep this thread updated. I am not one to complain about something and not work towards solutions. But this is beyond an "easier said than done" situation. I have serious mental blocks.

have you ever taken a speech course? when i took one way back when i first started college i never knew how chicken-shit i was to speak formally to a class full of people i didn't know but the more i did it the easier it became. like that, just rinse and repeat man and sooner or later it'll be second nature to approach women you are interested in.

[anti_troll]

As paradoxical as this might sound the best thing for you to do is to dive right in and get shot down a couple of times. In reading that it sounds like fear of failure is the biggest hurdle. From there, just approach it like any other skill you would want to develop and practice, learn from mistakes, and keep at it. In sports terms think like baseball, not chess. If it's the right girl you don't have be two steps ahead of anything, you just have to be ready for the next pitch. Don't go up to a woman wondering how you'll get her number, go up to her thinking how you're going to hold a conversation for the next 60 seconds. If it goes bad you've just spent one minute of your life learning what not to do. Keep that mindset front and center.
good advice SFIE, I have a tendency to overthink every situation and a habit of talking myself out of taking actions I should take. If I see a girl I like should I immediately approach without "game planning" first?

[koriwhat]

good advice SFIE, I have a tendency to overthink every situation and a habit of talking myself out of taking actions I should take. If I see a girl I like should I immediately approach without "game planning" first?

stop thinking, start acting!

[nkdlunch]

I didn't bother reading that whole mess.

Just in here to post I also got 99 problems and they all bitches

[anti_troll]

have you ever taken a speech course? when i took one way back when i first started college i never knew how chicken-shit i was to speak formally to a class full of people i didn't know but the more i did it the easier it became. like that, just rinse and repeat man and sooner or later it'll be second nature to approach women you are interested in.
Well yeah, I took speech before and I am definitely not good at that either, being the center of attention like that is nerve wrecking. One girl might as well be a classroom full of people because it is the exact same feeling.

[CuckingFunt]

Yo, homes, to Bel Air!

[koriwhat]

Well yeah, I took speech before and I am definitely not good at that either, being the center of attention like that is nerve wrecking. One girl might as well be a classroom full of people because it is the exact same feeling.

yeah i'm not awesome at speaking to crowds but with women, i just let it flow regardless of the outcome. my friend always says, "it is what it is", so that's the mentality i go with when talking with women. if it pans out, "it is what it is", and if it doesn't, "it is what it is". haha!

hope you stop fearing what shouldn't be feared. but CH did give a great response earlier, "disregard femals, acquire currency!"

[anti_troll]

yeah i'm not awesome at speaking to crowds but with women, i just let it flow regardless of the outcome. my friend always says, "it is what it is", so that's the mentality i go with when talking with women. if it pans out, "it is what it is", and if it doesn't, "it is what it is". haha!

hope you stop fearing what shouldn't be feared. but CH did give a great response earlier, "disregard femals, acquire currency!"
:lol I got little money and no women so I must really be doing something wrong.

[nkdlunch]

have you tried hitting on fat bitches. If you still nervous doing that you are hopeless

otherwise, bang a few fatties and see how you feel after that.

[anti_troll]

If nothing else, it was therapeutic typing all of this out and sharing my problem with others. Even though it is anonymous, I still feel like I got it out there and maybe someone will have something to say that turns on a light on my head. Also, being a long-time member of SpursTalk, I know that there are probably a lot of fellow ST'ers that are going through the same situation. Misery enjoys company! :toast

[anti_troll]

have you tried hitting on fat bitches. If you still nervous doing that you are hopeless

otherwise, bang a few fatties and see how you feel after that.
I dont need to bang anyone to feel better, and i dont want to waste time hitting on girls i'm not attracted to. Like I said ( or maybe I didn't) I would probably have a high success rate if I did actually start asking girls out. I've got nothing stopping me except this mental hump. Seriously, what is so depressing to me is all the time I've wasted.

[nkdlunch]

I dont need to bang anyone to feel better, and i dont want to waste hitting on girls i'm not attracted to. Like I said ( or maybe I didn't) I would probably have a high success rate if I did actually start asking girls out. I've got nothing stopping me except this mental hump. Seriously, what is so depressing to me is all the time I've wasted.

well then you have no hope. If you don't want to practice on fat asses to improve your game, you are not even willing to take step 1.

The game requires practice, if you are not willing to put in the effort you will have to marry either Handela or Palmela and call it a day.

[admiralsnackbar]

I feel you, A_T... I used to be the same way. I became a barfly in my 20's in order to get the Dutch courage to make my moves, but eventually I figured out how to stop over-thinking everything without getting blotto, so if nothing else, spare yourself the cirrhosis.

You say you've been hit on by girls, so ask yourself which ones did it well and which were artless. I'm guessing the ones that were clearly just interested in getting some were, ironically, less sexy for it, while the ones that made you laugh or said something you agreed with scored points out of the gate.

I guess I'd say the thing to bear in mind is to not get so overwhelmed by a girl's hotness that you don't pay attention to other things about her, like whether you may have anything in common with her. If you can't get a read on her personality visually, just linger around a bit and eavesdrop -- as stalker as it sounds, it's also a great way to avoid wasting time on a chick who looks hot but would actually irritate the shit out of you.

Anyway, if you can detect some commonality, use that as the basis to try and establish some friendly banter, or at least give yourself enough of a sense of familiarity around her to defuse your anxiety. If you can't detect anything, there's a good chance she isn't for you so you may as well pass on her and not feel bad about it. There's nothing worse than flirting with a chick and making jokes she doesn't get.

After doing it long enough, you'll eventually realize (on a visceral level) that rejection doesn't sting as much as you think it may, and that it never hurts to just open your mouth and start jabbering about something/anything. If you crash and burn, you can always have a laugh about it later, but more often than not a girl will meet you halfway if there's any interest on her part.

Not a quick-fix magic bullet, I guess, but what is?

[Cry Havoc]

I didn't bother reading that whole mess.

Just in here to post I also got 99 problems and they all bitches

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_kt2qdm75zK1qzqsgqo1_500.jpg

[Cry Havoc]

I dont need to bang anyone to feel better, and i dont want to waste time hitting on girls i'm not attracted to. Like I said ( or maybe I didn't) I would probably have a high success rate if I did actually start asking girls out. I've got nothing stopping me except this mental hump. Seriously, what is so depressing to me is all the time I've wasted.

Stop thinking about it in terms of "hitting" on them. Don't see a gorgeous girl and think, "Man, I want to be her boyfriend." Don't. Anyone who refers to it as a "game" is just setting themselves up for high-drama women. You don't want a girl you're going to have to play games with to get, if you play games to get her, you're going to have to play games to keep her.

Just go talk to her. Don't think about it. You don't have to have scintillating conversation for her to be interested. If there's chemistry there, it will evolve naturally rather than being forced.

And it's obviously troll-bait in The Club, but check out a dating site. It takes the pressure off of having to think quickly the first time you talk to a girl. OKCupid is pretty decent, and free.

[anti_troll]

well then you have no hope. If you don't want to practice on fat asses to improve your game, you are not even willing to take step 1.

The game requires practice, if you are not willing to put in the effort you will have to marry either Handela or Palmela and call it a day.
why and where do I hit on fat girls? talking to them is not so much the problem, it's the asking them out on a date. If i dont want to ask them on a date then there is no reason to fear talking to them. It's the girls I'm attracted to that I am afraid to talk to. I keep thinking, "there are so many other good looking guys in here, she doesnt want me talking to her, she wants someone else to talk to her." I constantly have the self-defeating thoughts even though most of these girls are probably thinking "I wish he would come talk to me"

[CuckingFunt]

Having now read your post...

I know from experience (I have no problem approaching people I'm interested in romantically, for some reason, but am horrible at approaching new people to make friends) that the two things you're doing -- trying to force yourself to become magically confident and thinking there's something wrong with you when it doesn't work -- are exactly the things that are going to make approaching women scarier. As some said, you're way overthinking it. At a certain point, you have to just jump in and risk making an ass of yourself.

[anti_troll]

I feel you, A_T... I used to be the same way. I became a barfly in my 20's in order to get the Dutch courage to make my moves, but eventually I figured out how to stop over-thinking everything without getting blotto, so if nothing else, spare yourself the cirrhosis.

You say you've been hit on by girls, so ask yourself which ones did it well and which were artless. I'm guessing the ones that were clearly just interested in getting some were, ironically, less sexy for it, while the ones that made you laugh or said something you agreed with scored points out of the gate.

I guess I'd say the thing to bear in mind is to not get so overwhelmed by a girl's hotness that you don't pay attention to other things about her, like whether you may have anything in common with her. If you can't get a read on her personality visually, just linger around a bit and eavesdrop -- as stalker as it sounds, it's also a great way to avoid wasting time on a chick who looks hot but would actually irritate the shit out of you.

Anyway, if you can detect some commonality, use that as the basis to try and establish some friendly banter, or at least give yourself enough of a sense of familiarity around her to defuse your anxiety. If you can't detect anything, there's a good chance she isn't for you so you may as well pass on her and not feel bad about it. There's nothing worse than flirting with a chick and making jokes she doesn't get.

After doing it long enough, you'll eventually realize (on a visceral level) that rejection doesn't sting as much as you think it may, and that it never hurts to just open your mouth and start jabbering about something/anything. If you crash and burn, you can always have a laugh about it later, but more often than not a girl will meet you halfway if there's any interest on her part.

Not a quick-fix magic bullet, I guess, but what is?
great advice, admiral. This is really the kind of advice I was looking for when i thought about starting this thread. I've already decided that the worst place for me to meet girls in a bar. I used to be a booze hound, but not so much any more. The funny thing is, I've never been approached by a girl in a bar, at parties, where drinking is involved, yes, but never a bar. I'd like to meet a girl through clubs (jogging club or spanish club, etc), school, work, or mutual acquaintances. good things come to those who wait, but time is really becoming a factor.

[admiralsnackbar]

At a certain point, you have to just jump in and risk making an ass of yourself.

Words to live by.

[anti_troll]

Stop thinking about it in terms of "hitting" on them. Don't see a gorgeous girl and think, "Man, I want to be her boyfriend." Don't. Anyone who refers to it as a "game" is just setting themselves up for high-drama women. You don't want a girl you're going to have to play games with to get, if you play games to get her, you're going to have to play games to keep her.

Just go talk to her. Don't think about it. You don't have to have scintillating conversation for her to be interested. If there's chemistry there, it will evolve naturally rather than being forced.

And it's obviously troll-bait in The Club, but check out a dating site. It takes the pressure off of having to think quickly the first time you talk to a girl. OKCupid is pretty decent, and free.
I've thought about that, but I think I'll wait til I'm desperate and around 35 before signing up for an eHarmony account! haha

[anti_troll]

Having now read your post...

I know from experience (I have no problem approaching people I'm interested in romantically, for some reason, but am horrible at approaching new people to make friends) that the two things you're doing -- trying to force yourself to become magically confident and thinking there's something wrong with you when it doesn't work -- are exactly the things that are going to make approaching women scarier. As some said, you're way overthinking it. At a certain point, you have to just jump in and risk making an ass of yourself.
that's a good point, playing off of that, I'd imagine the feeling I get before approaching a woman is similar to the feeling of a person who can't swim preparing to jump in the water. The difference is, person who can't swim runs the risk of jumping in, drowning, and dying. I dont think I'll die if I approach a woman and start to drown :lol

[Cry Havoc]

I've thought about that, but I think I'll wait til I'm desperate and around 35 before signing up for an eHarmony account! haha

So you'll make a pretty huge self-divulging post to a random sports forum, but you won't sign up for an e-dating site because it's too embarrassing for you? Do you apply this same kind of logic to your dating life? If so, that might be a starting problem.

It sounds to me like you're still attempting to dictate your options thinking it's going to get you somewhere. I mean, who cares where you meet a girl, if she's hot, has a good sense of humor, and is fun to be around?

She's not going to just fall out of the sky and ask you to be her boyfriend. You have to put in the work. And right now, you're stuck in, "I want it to happen MY way, the easy way!" land.

[CuckingFunt]

great advice, admiral. This is really the kind of advice I was looking for when i thought about starting this thread. I've already decided that the worst place for me to meet girls in a bar. I used to be a booze hound, but not so much any more. The funny thing is, I've never been approached by a girl in a bar, at parties, where drinking is involved, yes, but never a bar. I'd like to meet a girl through clubs (jogging club or spanish club, etc), school, work, or mutual acquaintances. good things come to those who wait, but time is really becoming a factor.

I've found that, in general, making a conscious effort to meet a girl (or anyone else) can signal instant disaster for those of us who may suffer a bit of social anxiety (which, for the record, is everyone on the planet whether or not they want to admit it). Going out to meet someone puts too much pressure on the situation -- it places a goal on the evening by which you can measure tangible success or failure.

I'm not, personally, a fan of meeting people when I'm drunk off my ass (or meeting anyone else who is drunk off their ass), but that doesn't mean I haven't met great people hanging out in bars with my friends. No reason to rule out an entire location, in my mind.

[admiralsnackbar]

great advice, admiral. This is really the kind of advice I was looking for when i thought about starting this thread. I've already decided that the worst place for me to meet girls in a bar. I used to be a booze hound, but not so much any more. The funny thing is, I've never been approached by a girl in a bar, at parties, where drinking is involved, yes, but never a bar. I'd like to meet a girl through clubs (jogging club or spanish club, etc), school, work, or mutual acquaintances. good things come to those who wait, but time is really becoming a factor.

Dude, you're just heaping anxiety onto your current predicament by bringing time into the discussion. Your ideals of how and by what time you're supposed to find a significant other are just that: ideals. There are some things you can't control, and honestly? That's half the fun of it.

Just put yourself out there doing the things you like to do, and meeting the people you like to meet. If it takes awhile, so be it. Just live your life, yo.

[koriwhat]

At a certain point, you have to just jump in and risk making an ass of yourself.

it's not even about making an ass out of yourself but i understand where you're coming from CF.

are you an ass for trying? hell no!

[anti_troll]

So you'll make a pretty huge self-divulging post to a random sports forum, but you won't sign up for an e-dating site because it's too embarrassing for you?

It sounds to me like you're still attempting to dictate your options thinking it's going to get you somewhere. I mean, who cares where you meet a girl, if she's hot, has a good sense of humor, and is fun to be around?

She's not going to just fall out of the sky and ask you to be her boyfriend. You have to put in the work. And right now, you're stuck in, "I want it to happen MY way, the easy way!" land.
I consider dating sites to be "the easy way".

It is not embarassing to go that route, I'd just like to prove to myself that I can do it the old-fashioned, traditional way. Better to get over this hump now while I still have my good looks and relative youth going for me. I'd hate to be 40-years-old and look back and be ashamed that I never gave it a try, god knows i've got enough regrets in my life.

[admiralsnackbar]

I've found that, in general, making a conscious effort to meet a girl (or anyone else) can signal instant disaster for those of us who may suffer a bit of social anxiety (which, for the record, is everyone on the planet whether or not they want to admit it). Going out to meet someone puts too much pressure on the situation -- it places a goal on the evening by which you can measure tangible success or failure.

Word.

[koriwhat]

Dude, you're just heaping anxiety onto your current predicament by bringing time into the discussion. Your ideals of how and by what time you're supposed to find a significant other are just that: ideals. There are some things you can't control, and honestly? That's half the fun of it.

Just put yourself out there doing the things you like to do, and meeting the people you like to meet. If it takes awhile, so be it. Just live your life, yo.

or you can be like my brother and marry the first beast that comes your way because you're so hung up about being married by X age. crazy!

[anti_troll]

I've found that, in general, making a conscious effort to meet a girl (or anyone else) can signal instant disaster for those of us who may suffer a bit of social anxiety (which, for the record, is everyone on the planet whether or not they want to admit it). Going out to meet someone puts too much pressure on the situation -- it places a goal on the evening by which you can measure tangible success or failure.

I'm not, personally, a fan of meeting people when I'm drunk off my ass (or meeting anyone else who is drunk off their ass), but that doesn't mean I haven't met great people hanging out in bars with my friends. No reason to rule out an entire location, in my mind.
I've always looked at it like this, what's the point in going out to drink if you're not trying to meet someone? the drinking itself isn't really the fun part to me, you can get drunk at home with your friends if your desire is just to get drunk (you can do it a lot cheaper too). The fun in going out and drinkning is that everyone is a lot looser, and as a result, conversation should flow a lot easier. Problem is, these days, i go from not drunk enough to approach a woman directly to waaaay too drunk to approach a woman.

[Cry Havoc]

I consider dating sites to be "the easy way".

It is not embarassing to go that route, I'd just like to prove to myself that I can do it the old-fashioned, traditional way. Better to get over this hump now while I still have my good looks and relative youth going for me. I'd hate to be 40-years-old and look back and be ashamed that I never gave it a try, god knows i've got enough regrets in my life.

IF you're going to do it, then do it. No amount of advice in the world is going to help you if you can't man up, walk up to a woman, and say, "Hi. I'm _____. How are you?"

I don't know why you're asking for advice when you have admitted that all you need to do is get over your fear and start talking to chicks. They aren't some magical entities, and you aren't going to spontaneously combust if a few of them roll their eyes at you and think you're an idiot for approaching them. That reflects on them, not you.

[admiralsnackbar]

I consider dating sites to be "the easy way".

It is not embarassing to go that route, I'd just like to prove to myself that I can do it the old-fashioned, traditional way. Better to get over this hump now while I still have my good looks and relative youth going for me. I'd hate to be 40-years-old and look back and be ashamed that I never gave it a try, god knows i've got enough regrets in my life.

That's funny, I think an eHarmony date would be as hard as a date gets. Think about it: when you meet somebody on your own terms, the two of you determine what the relationship will become on your own terms. On a dating service date, you're both there with the explicit goal to find a life partner (unless you're on one of those weird dating sites :wow), and are judging each other on those terms from the go. Fuuuuuck that :lol

[koriwhat]

IF you're going to do it, then do it. No amount of advice in the world is going to help you if you can't man up, walk up to a woman, and say, "Hi. I'm _____. How are you?"

I don't know why you're asking for advice when you have admitted that all you need to do is get over your fear and start talking to chicks. They aren't some magical entities, and you aren't going to spontaneously combust if a few of them roll their eyes at you and think you're an idiot for approaching them. That reflects on them, not you.

:toast

[Chachachango]

Start with the fat or ugly chicks first, then work yourself up to average and hot girls. I got rejected pretty bad one time and looking back at that is quite funny but at that moment it felt like shit. It's all about learning when you fail. Like some said, you over think it. Don't assume the girl is "the one". Just go and say hi and don't come off as a weirdo. Smile,relax, and go with the flow. You'll notice girls laugh at the stupidest things,if they do she like you, so don't think they're making fun of you.

[CuckingFunt]

I've always looked at it like this, what's the point in going out to drink if you're not trying to meet someone? the drinking itself isn't really the fun part to me, you can get drunk at home with your friends if your desire is just to get drunk (you can do it a lot cheaper too). The fun in going out and drinkning is that everyone is a lot looser, and as a result, conversation should flow a lot easier. Problem is, these days, i go from not drunk enough to approach a woman directly to waaaay too drunk to approach a woman.

Then you put way too much importance on meeting someone, in general. It's no wonder you have so much anxiety there.

The drinking/getting drunk, well, that probably shouldn't be the fun part. That would just indicate a different problem. But spending time with your friends should be fun. And, if you stopped stressing so much about meeting someone, probably would be. Word of advice, from a girl: we don't particularly want to spend time with the guy who can't have fun. Go out, spend time with your friends, have fun and be engaging, and the girl thing will be a bajillion times easier. I almost guarantee it.

[silverblk mystix]

Well I am no expert, but I did stay at a holiday express inn last night...

Actually I did see a couple of nice responses here, one by admiral and one by cry havoc,
but I guess I will throw my two cents in.

To the OP;

You actually have a pretty decent attitude concerning women, particularly the attitude that you don't wish to waste your time on women who you see no future with. Either that is a good virtue - or you are a bit snobbish-which is not a bad thing when trying to score.

The thing I would add to the previous responses is that it might be a good idea to stop thinking of the end result-the outcome-the reward...ie; getting laid.

If you just focus on getting to know someone without your wishes or desires getting in the way it will result in two things.

#1) The pressure will be lifted because you are only having a conversation about-whatever and learning about this girl; her thoughts,her mannerisms,her way of carrying herself,her opinions,convictions,beliefs,prejudices,etc....
(take ALL the time you need to discover everything about her, and also giving you and her a level of being comfortable-which is very important)

#2) This leads to a determination by both of you-if there is enough to want to continue...if you have picked her brain-and she still interests you-then you invested your time wisely...if she becomes a drag-you politely excuse yourself and tell her it was great talking to her.

If after all this you want to proceed further it will be pretty easy because , by then, you will be pretty sure of the amount of interest there...she will probably encourage you herself anyway.

Someone mentioned about playing games to get a girl-then having to play games to keep her...that was very good advice and very true--be careful how much work you have to put in to get a girl because she will end up with you in part because of this. One day, another guy will put in TWICE as much work as you did and she will respond to him because that is part of who she is-someone that can be convinced or won over.

The ones where there is time enough to let nature/chemistry take its course are the ones where she didn't have to be convinced of being with you-these relationships usually show more promise and less drama - if the girl as really into you in the first place.

Good luck.

[anti_troll]

I dont have a problem having fun, again, like i said, I can make anyone smile, laugh, and feel comfortable. I guess I have a problem with knowing when to go for it, and who to go for it with? What are the signs? I know eye contact is good, but my eye sight can be kind of fuzzy and sometimes I can't tell if a girl is looking at me or past me. Is there a sure-fire sign that I should be looking for that should tell me "this girl wants you to come talk to her"?

[admiralsnackbar]

I dont have a problem having fun, again, like i said, I can make anyone smile, laugh, and feel comfortable. I guess I have a problem with knowing when to go for it, and who to go for it with? What are the signs? I know eye contact is good, but my eye sight can be kind of fuzzy and sometimes I can't tell if a girl is looking at me or past me. Is there a sure-fire sign that I should be looking for that should tell me "this girl wants you to come talk to her"?

As chivalrous as your concern is for your "mark," I'd advise you to put thoughts regarding her desire to speak to you out of your head. On some level, this isn't even about her: you're doing this for you. Let her be the judge of whether or not you picked the right time.

[anti_troll]

Well I am no expert, but I did stay at a holiday express inn last night...

Actually I did see a couple of nice responses here, one by admiral and one by cry havoc,
but I guess I will throw my two cents in.

To the OP;

You actually have a pretty decent attitude concerning women, particularly the attitude that you don't wish to waste your time on women who you see no future with. Either that is a good virtue - or you are a bit snobbish-which is not a bad thing when trying to score.

The thing I would add to the previous responses is that it might be a good idea to stop thinking of the end result-the outcome-the reward...ie; getting laid.

If you just focus on getting to know someone without your wishes or desires getting in the way it will result in two things.

#1) The pressure will be lifted because you are only having a conversation about-whatever and learning about this girl; her thoughts,her mannerisms,her way of carrying herself,her opinions,convictions,beliefs,prejudices,etc....
(take ALL the time you need to discover everything about her, and also giving you and her a level of being comfortable-which is very important)

#2) This leads to a determination by both of you-if there is enough to want to continue...if you have picked her brain-and she still interests you-then you invested your time wisely...if she becomes a drag-you politely excuse yourself and tell her it was great talking to her.

If after all this you want to proceed further it will be pretty easy because , by then, you will be pretty sure of the amount of interest there...she will probably encourage you herself anyway.

Someone mentioned about playing games to get a girl-then having to play games to keep her...that was very good advice and very true--be careful how much work you have to put in to get a girl because she will end up with you in part because of this. One day, another guy will put in TWICE as much work as you did and she will respond to him because that is part of who she is-someone that can be convinced or won over.

The ones where there is time enough to let nature/chemistry take its course are the ones where she didn't have to be convinced of being with you-these relationships usually show more promise and less drama - if the girl as really into you in the first place.

Good luck.

Thanks for the advice!

The problem has always been the initial approach. I have never had a problem holding a conversation or getting to know someone. It is the initial connection "Hi I'm so and so, who are you?" "Hi, what's going on?" "Hello, I wanted to come introduce myself" etc etc always sounds so stupid in my mind. Like any girl would see right through that and perceive my intentions as "oh this guy is just looking to get laid, give me a break", When really my intention is to get to know them a bit to see if there is potential for a relationship, not necessarily a date or marriage, just to see if this girl is cool or not and to see if she thinks im cool or not. The relationship will build itself if there is chemistry.

[Chachachango]

Look up the three second rule.

here you go man. hope this helps.

http://www.askmen.com/dating/player/48b_love_games.html

[Cry Havoc]

I dont have a problem having fun, again, like i said, I can make anyone smile, laugh, and feel comfortable. I guess I have a problem with knowing when to go for it, and who to go for it with? What are the signs? I know eye contact is good, but my eye sight can be kind of fuzzy and sometimes I can't tell if a girl is looking at me or past me. Is there a sure-fire sign that I should be looking for that should tell me "this girl wants you to come talk to her"?

Who cares? Who the hell cares?

http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:lA2zRFsqwF-9PM:http://ganmike.com/images/nike%20just%20do%20it.jpg&t=1

[anti_troll]

As chivalrous as your concern is for your "mark," I'd advise you to put thoughts regarding her desire to speak to you out of your head. On some level, this isn't even about her: you're doing this for you. Let her be the judge of whether or not you picked the right time.
Have i said anything that would indicate I consider girls to be "marks"? thats kind of a negative way to put it. But I understand what you are saying. I guess I just want to increase my chances of success by avoiding the most obvious pitfalls.

[anti_troll]

Look up the three second rule.

here you go man. hope this helps.

http://www.askmen.com/dating/player/48b_love_games.html
Haha :lol Thanks man, this is totally me :lol

[CuckingFunt]

I dont have a problem having fun, again, like i said, I can make anyone smile, laugh, and feel comfortable.

My point is that, in my experience, people are attracted to those who look like they are having fun. The hot guy/girl at a bar who is more focused on looking for the next person to approach than on interacting with others may look like a super model, but I'm not at all interested. The attractive guy/girl who is relaxing with their friends at a table full of laughter and exciting conversation, though? I'm all over that. You may be incredibly personable and fun to be around, but people aren't going to assume that unless they see it in action.

And, I speak from experience, here. As I hinted in an earlier post, I am super shy in situations where I don't know anyone. I tend to shut down, go quiet, and do my own thing. I still get approached in those situations by the icky guys looking to get laid, but that's it. When I'm out with my friends, though, and am confident and talkative within that group, I find that I/we tend to attract a lot more people -- as if people think that's a fun table, that's an interesting bunch, I want to be a part of it.


I guess I have a problem with knowing when to go for it, and who to go for it with? What are the signs? I know eye contact is good, but my eye sight can be kind of fuzzy and sometimes I can't tell if a girl is looking at me or past me. Is there a sure-fire sign that I should be looking for that should tell me "this girl wants you to come talk to her"?

That's where the jump in and risk making an ass of yourself thing comes into play. Is it really that big of a deal if she wasn't looking at you? Introduce yourself anyway and go from there. Girls, unless they're unbelievably high maintenance and/or living in a fantasy world, aren't really expecting guys to be magically flawless. A bit of nervousness can in fact be quite endearing.

[admiralsnackbar]

Have i said anything that would indicate I consider girls to be "marks"? thats kind of a negative way to put it. But I understand what you are saying. I guess I just want to increase my chances of success by avoiding the most obvious pitfalls.

:lol no no no, man -- I was just using the term to add color to the discussion. No offense to you or the ladies of the world intended.

[silverblk mystix]

Thanks for the advice!

The problem has always been the initial approach. I have never had a problem holding a conversation or getting to know someone. It is the initial connection "Hi I'm so and so, who are you?" "Hi, what's going on?" "Hello, I wanted to come introduce myself" etc etc always sounds so stupid in my mind. Like any girl would see right through that and perceive my intentions as "oh this guy is just looking to get laid, give me a break", When really my intention is to get to know them a bit to see if there is potential for a relationship, not necessarily a date or marriage, just to see if this girl is cool or not and to see if she thinks im cool or not. The relationship will build itself if there is chemistry.

You can take two of either approaches and they might even be opposites.

#1) The very direct and blunt and honest approach, ``hey, I wanted to say hi because I find you really interesting.''

or just go the opposite and forget approaching any girl...which is

#2) just stop trying-it is not working for you

go on with your life-but really get into it and stop trying to figure this out.
When you really get into what you are doing-you become a normal interesting person and people will respond. People-including girls of course-will just innocently engage you or be engaged by you in conversation and nature will take its course. Just give up and go on with life and, trust me, women will be in your life without you trying- if you are even HALF as attractive as you described yourself.

[anti_troll]

My point is that, in my experience, people are attracted to those who look like they are having fun. The hot guy/girl at a bar who is more focused on looking for the next person to approach than on interacting with others may look like a super model, but I'm not at all interested. The attractive guy/girl who is relaxing with their friends at a table full of laughter and exciting conversation, though? I'm all over that. You may be incredibly personable and fun to be around, but people aren't going to assume that unless they see it in action.

And, I speak from experience, here. As I hinted in an earlier post, I am super shy in situations where I don't know anyone. I tend to shut down, go quiet, and do my own thing. I still get approached in those situations by the icky guys looking to get laid, but that's it. When I'm out with my friends, though, and am confident and talkative within that group, I find that I/we tend to attract a lot more people -- as if people think that's a fun table, that's an interesting bunch, I want to be a part of it.



That's where the jump in and risk making an ass of yourself thing comes into play. Is it really that big of a deal if she wasn't looking at you? Introduce yourself anyway and go from there. Girls, unless they're unbelievably high maintenance and/or living in a fantasy world, aren't really expecting guys to be magically flawless. A bit of nervousness can in fact be quite endearing.
Thanks CF, nice to have a womans perspective!

[anti_troll]

:lol no no no, man -- I was just using the term to add color to the discussion. No offense to you or the ladies of the world intended.
oh ok! :toast

[anti_troll]

Thanks every one! I wil re-read all the comments and advice in here and see what I can do with it. I'll update in this thread as time goes on...

[The Reckoning]

wait until a thunderstorm, go to a busy college campus with your umbrella and it's all yours for the pickin.

[admiralsnackbar]

A parting word of advice:

http://i291.photobucket.com/albums/ll320/snackbar50/fire-ice-box-shot.jpg

Don't use these condoms unless you want your dick to feel like it's having a febrile outbreak of malaria :lol

[TDMVPDPOY]

the 2 girls OP said he had sex with, his right and left hand dont count...

anyway i know how u feel man, same situation...

[Udokafan05]

try online dating

[mrsmaalox]

I'm a little late to this dance, but looks like all the good advice has been given. I don't think being scared of women is your main problem----you seem to have a few issues occurring that you have lumped under the single heading "Fear of Women", that include "fear of rejection", "fear of intimacy" and some others. And they should probably all be addressed as separate issues, although progress in one will improve the others. By far the simplest initial measure that I think you can take is to remove this "timeline" pressure you are putting yourself under. There is no point to it at all; people find their "one" at any age. There are no time limits; it's better to find your soulmate at 40, than to settle for the first one to meet your requirements at 28. Believe it or not, there are some attractive 40 year olds in the world :lol

[anti_troll]

No you're not late! I don't really have a fear of intimacy, just a fear of rejection. The time thing that I mentioned earlier is more about experiencing crippling feelings of lonliness than it is about a biological clock or something. I just need someone, I've been without for too long and I have an internal need for affection. I need to be loved.

[anti_troll]

wait until a thunderstorm, go to a busy college campus with your umbrella and it's all yours for the pickin.

:lol Good advice! If only I were currently enrolled I'd be all over that idea! I always keep an umbrella with me so who knows...

[MannyIsGod]

btw, last week i asked this cute little mexican chick out from peiwei and well... i got the "my boyfriend actually works with me, he's right over there." hahaha!

i don't talk to anyone at that peiwei but i do eat there a ton when i work at my other job and for the past couple weeks this chick has been initiating conversation after conversation with me. we talk about everything from mexico to music and all things in-between and so you can understand why i thought she had a bit of interest.

anyhow, the other week i order my food as usual. before my food was cooked this chick brings me some wonton soup for free, because it's her favorite soup there, and also brings me some limes, because she loves lime juice in her soup. and so i start to think, "well maybe i should ask her out sometime." anyhow, i didn't ask her out because of the soup but because she's cool to talk with and her body is killer.

well, shot down! anyhow, like i said before. it's a numbers game and maybe the next chick i come across works with her man too and so it goes... keep on trying. there's nothing to be ashamed of or lose confidence over if there's no mutual interest. just move along and remember, you actually asked her out!

If I was a cute little Mexican chick and you asked me out I'd point any any guy nearby and say the same thing.

[anti_troll]

try online dating
No online dating for me.... Yet :lol

I consider dating sites to be "the easy way".

It is not embarassing to go that route, I'd just like to prove to myself that I can do it the old-fashioned, traditional way. Better to get over this hump now while I still have my good looks and relative youth going for me. I'd hate to be 40-years-old and look back and be ashamed that I never gave it a try, god knows i've got enough regrets in my life.

[anti_troll]

Start with the fat or ugly chicks first, then work yourself up to average and hot girls. I got rejected pretty bad one time and looking back at that is quite funny but at that moment it felt like shit. It's all about learning when you fail. Like some said, you over think it. Don't assume the girl is "the one". Just go and say hi and don't come off as a weirdo. Smile,relax, and go with the flow. You'll notice girls laugh at the stupidest things,if they do she like you, so don't think they're making fun of you.
Thanks but I don't want to get any fat or ugly girls hopes up! :lol I'm too nice! I'd end up taking them out on a date! :lol

[MannyIsGod]

No offense but you're 28 and you've asked out one girl. I think its fairly obvious you likely can't do the old fashion thing and there's really not much wrong with that.

The main problem is that you've built it too much now. Trying to rid yourself of the anxiety is going to be like trying to not think about something.

You really should give online dating a shot.

Oh and, you're putting the pussy on a pedestal.

[anti_troll]

No offense but you're 28 and you've asked out one girl. I think its fairly obvious you likely can't do the old fashion thing and there's really not much wrong with that.

The main problem is that you've built it too much now. Trying to rid yourself of the anxiety is going to be like trying to not think about something.

You really should give online dating a shot.

Oh and, you're putting the pussy on a pedestal.
Was waiting for that! :lol No doubt about it.

Manny, I think I CAN do it! It's all about overcoming your fears. It's like a person with a phobia, if I have aracnaphobia I'm not going to die if someone places a spider on my leg. If I have acrophobia I'm not going to die if I go bungee jumping. I just have to learn to let go and jump.

[TDMVPDPOY]

why go double date or on blind dates, get friends to introduce u girls man

i remember back in my teens friends would always intro me the fugly chicks for no reason, fck that shit i bolted as soon i saw there faces....just hate friends who keep all the hot chicks to themselves who cant do shit with them besides being in the friendzone or reserves just in case their current relationship dont work out...fck that shit help out a brother...

plenty of chicks in the sea man, get out of ur tank comfort zone and do something...

[anti_troll]

why go double date or on blind dates, get friends to introduce u girls man

i remember back in my teens friends would always intro me the fugly chicks for no reason, fck that shit i bolted as soon i saw there faces....just hate friends who keep all the hot chicks to themselves who cant do shit with them besides being in the friendzone or reserves just in case their current relationship dont work out...fck that shit help out a brother...

plenty of chicks in the sea man, get out of ur tank comfort zone and do something...

Yep, just gotta get out of my comfort zone. I'm always up for blind dates or being set up with a girl, guess I just don't have those kinds of friends yet. I just started a new job though, so we'll see!

[ploto]

I think you have to ask yourself of what you are so afraid?

Is it just a fear of rejection- that you can not handle being turned down? Are you that insecure that the thought of her saying no paralyzes you?

Is it more about being embarrassed? Are you afraid that other people will see or find out and ridicule or make fun of you? Is that your fear?

When you figure out the specific possible outcome that has you so fearful, then you can do something to counter it.

[anti_troll]

I think you have to ask yourself of what you are so afraid?

Is it just a fear of rejection- that you can not handle being turned down? Are you that insecure that the thought of her saying no paralyzes you?

Is it more about being embarrassed? Are you afraid that other people will see or find out and ridicule or make fun of you? Is that your fear?

When you figure out the specific possible outcome that has you so fearful, then you can do something to counter it.

Ploto, the resident psychologist, thank you for your input!

I think the main fear is being embarassed. I don't want others to see me get rejected and I don't want her company, cause girls usually go in groups, to see me get shot down. Also, I don't want the people I am with see me get shot down. I know it doesn't really matter, and it sounds silly to care about that but I'm just trying to be honest with myself and with you because aren't you a shrink?

[Chachachango]

Thanks but I don't want to get any fat or ugly girls hopes up! :lol I'm too nice! I'd end up taking them out on a date! :lol

Just do it to work on your flirting,teasing and to see how your game flow is. You never know, you might end up::married: with a big girl. lol

[anti_troll]

Just do it to work on your flirting,teasing and to see how your game flow is. You never know, you might end up::married: with a big girl. lol

lol no effing way! :lol

[David Bowie]

Try internet dating. It was pretty much invented for people who have trouble coming up to a person and asking them out.