Is Manu past his prime?

[Ace]

Just curious what some here think.

[DesignatedT]

He's still a top 5 SG in this league when he is fresh and healthy but there lies the problem.

[Juanobili]

he's still a top 5 sg in this league when he is fresh and healthy but there lies the problem.

+1

[DJ Mbenga]

manu= roy. when healthy good. but when is the key word.

[ducks]

like way past his prime

[kaji157]

I would think yes, but with Manu is hard to know.

[mingus]

he's a little slower than he was before. not much but a little. however, he's imporved his stroke from pretty much everywhere, which has made up for it. he's still as active without the ball as he was before (case in point being his block on Durant). His passing has gotten better year by year, and he was already phenomenal at that to begin with.

i think the Manu we saw in that stretch of like 20 games where he led the Spurs to a number of great wins is the best Manu we've seen yet. even at 32 (or is it 33 now?).

the issue is can he stay healthy.

Manu's game is predicated on his awkwardness with the ball and his killer first step. once he loses his agility and explosiveness, he's done because his shot is a slow realease, and if he can't get defenders to respect his driving game, he won't be able to get it off. i really haven't seen much of a loss in his agility or explosiveness. the problem with concluding whether he's over the hill or not from that is that we also haven't seen him play a full season as the player he is capable of being in 2 years. can he stay explosive and quick when for a full season? that's what we need to know.

healthy, though, you can bet Manu is one of the best sg guards in the league. i'd only put him only behind Wade and Kobe. i don't see how you can't considering he's extremely efficient at scoring from pretty much anywhere and affects the game in so many ways, offensively and defensively.

[DAF86]

Of course, he's still good though. Prime Manu would get to the rim everytime he wanted, now he can't.

[jason1301]

past his athletic prime for sure.

[mabrignani]

brett favre still doin things in his 40s

[cantthinkofanything]

He's past his physical prime but he'll improve on other areas that can make him just as dangerous.

[Muser]

Yes, but not by much.

[ohmwrecker]

He is athletically past his prime, but as far as, IQ and skills go he is peaking right now.
Earlier on, I thought that he wouldn't have a long career with his physical playing style and his seemingly reckless disregard for his own safety. As time has passed, Manu has developed his game in such a way that I can see him being an effective player past the point where his speed and agility leave him. He has a deadly three point shot that is tough to defend and his passing skills are way above average. He is one of the smartest and quickest reacting players in the league he has an endless supply of shots and moves going to the basket.
Manu is probably the most valuable player in the league when it comes to intangibles. He rarely makes mistakes and even when he does, he hustles on the other end of the floor to make a block, steal or take a charge. He is one of the most unique players in basketball history. He is never the quickest, fastest player on the floor, but he usually comes away with the big play over a more talented player because he is so crafty. He is average height and rail thin, but he is surprisingly strong. He turns any physical disadvantage into an advantage because he is intelligent and uses his body in the most effective and optimal possible manner.
I can really see Manu being a game changing type of player for a good number of years. He could evolve into a clutch bench scoring, defensive specialist (he already is) type and extend his career for a long time.

[cantthinkofanything]

He is athletically past his prime, but as far as, IQ and skills go he is peaking right now.
Earlier on, I thought that he wouldn't have a long career with his physical playing style and his seemingly reckless disregard for his own safety. As time has passed, Manu has developed his game in such a way that I can see him being an effective player past the point where his speed and agility leave him. He has a deadly three point shot that is tough to defend and his passing skills are way above average. He is one of the smartest and quickest reacting players in the league he has an endless supply of shots and moves going to the basket.
Manu is probably the most valuable player in the league when it comes to intangibles. He rarely makes mistakes and even when he does, he hustles on the other end of the floor to make a block, steal or take a charge. He is one of the most unique players in basketball history. He is never the quickest, fastest player on the floor, but he usually comes away with the big play over a more talented player because he is so crafty. He is average height and rail thin, but he is surprisingly strong. He turns any physical disadvantage into an advantage because he is intelligent and uses his body in the most effective and optimal possible manner.
I can really see Manu being a game changing type of player for a good number of years. He could evolve into a clutch bench scoring, defensive specialist (he already is) type and extend his career for a long time.

Yeah, this is what I said but a lot better. I can see Manu still being an effective player for several years with his shooting and passing ability. He may not be 1st or 2nd option for much longer but he will always have to be accounted for.

[cd98]

He's past his prime. But he is still highly effective because many of his skills are not predicated on athletic ability alone, i.e. passing, outside shooting, footwork, and heart.

[Man In Black]

I see you're looking for HELP (W)Ace. I asked YOU to point out why he is past his prime. Not look to solicit opinion. Doing so, makes you look LAZY!!!!!

[Brazil]

He's past his physical prime but he'll improve on other areas that can make him just as dangerous.

+1

adding when or if healthy

[8FOR!3]

I'd say he's athletically past his prime, but he still improves as a player just about every year.

[Ace]

He is athletically past his prime, but as far as, IQ and skills go he is peaking right now.
Earlier on, I thought that he wouldn't have a long career with his physical playing style and his seemingly reckless disregard for his own safety. As time has passed, Manu has developed his game in such a way that I can see him being an effective player past the point where his speed and agility leave him. He has a deadly three point shot that is tough to defend and his passing skills are way above average. He is one of the smartest and quickest reacting players in the league he has an endless supply of shots and moves going to the basket.
Manu is probably the most valuable player in the league when it comes to intangibles. He rarely makes mistakes and even when he does, he hustles on the other end of the floor to make a block, steal or take a charge. He is one of the most unique players in basketball history. He is never the quickest, fastest player on the floor, but he usually comes away with the big play over a more talented player because he is so crafty. He is average height and rail thin, but he is surprisingly strong. He turns any physical disadvantage into an advantage because he is intelligent and uses his body in the most effective and optimal possible manner.
I can really see Manu being a game changing type of player for a good number of years. He could evolve into a clutch bench scoring, defensive specialist (he already is) type and extend his career for a long time.

Good response :tu

Manu is past his prime but still effective role player. Woman in Black seems to believe he can still be a franchise player. He wouldn't listen to me no matter what I would have said. Maybe out the mouth of another Spurs fan he will come to reality.

[wontstartdumbthreads]

Even though he may not be as quick as he once was, he will continue to make his game better.

[Man In Black]

Good response :tu

Manu is past his prime but still effective role player. Woman in Black seems to believe he can still be a franchise player. He wouldn't listen to me no matter what I would have said. Maybe out the mouth of another Spurs fan he will come to reality.
Where's your response? YOURS. I keep pointing out that when Manu sees Miami on the schedule, he ramps his game up and then what does he do? He outplays Wade. That's all the guy does. I've shown that statistically. It's been done...over and over. So again, where is your response? Saying he is out of his prime would lead many to believe that he doesn't have any serious game. That's a huge mistake. Let's just say that Ginobili has serious game and every time he's faced Miami, he's used it to obliterate DWade and his team. I expect that even in a season where they've picked up pieces that have yet to show us anything but possible potential. You can't carry over LBJ and Bosh's averages over as Alpha dogs of previous teams and just say that's what's going to happen. That's not how this TEAM game works.

If this is all you got, W-Ace, then I've already won and proven my point. What little game you had, went away when you decided to ask Spurs fan for HELP!

[LoneStarState'sPride]

Man In Black owning the shit out of this thread right now.

[Ace]

Where's your response? YOURS. I keep pointing out that when Manu sees Miami on the schedule, he ramps his game up and then what does he do? He outplays Wade. That's all the guy does. I've shown that statistically. It's been done...over and over. So again, where is your response? Saying he is out of his prime would lead many to believe that he doesn't have any serious game. That's a huge mistake. Let's just say that Ginobili has serious game and every time he's faced Miami, he's used it to obliterate DWade and his team. I expect that even in a season where they've picked up pieces that have yet to show us anything but possible potential. You can't carry over LBJ and Bosh's averages over as Alpha dogs of previous teams and just say that's what's going to happen. That's not how this TEAM game works.

If this is all you got, W-Ace, then I've already won and proven my point. What little game you had, went away when you decided to ask Spurs fan for HELP!


Manu wasn't the focus of a great defensive team, he also had a great PF and a top PG by his side. As far as rings go Wade won as number one option and turned a series around with one of the greatest finals performances.

All which is irrelevant at this point because the Spurs are not the team they were in the past and Manu is not the player he once was. At this point Wade is the better player and only a homer holding on to the past would say otherwise.
You responded to this post but some how it didn't stick. Like I said Manu has Tim and Tony so unlike Wade he isn't the focus of the opposing D.

[picc84]

Somebody rank Manu's years from when he was best to worst.

[ElNono]

He's on the decline, IMO. But just like with many players that have incredible basketball IQ (think Horry, Duncan, Stockton, etc) which don't rely entirely on their athleticism, he can still turn games around all on his own and dominate. That makes the decline much less pronounced. I think he still has another couple of seasons until his amazing footwork and overall skill can't overcome the physical decline that ultimately settles in. Let's hope they're healthy seasons and we get to enjoy his (and Timmy's) last few seasons at a high level.

[ElNono]

And BTW, Wade has always been an athletically superior player than Manu. Doesn't necessarily mean that they impact the game the same way. They're different type of players, and I suspect Wade's decline will be more pronounced considering how much he relies on his athleticism. That said, we're talking the cream of the crop in the league here. Wade is a phenomenal player.

[arles]

2007/2008 was Manu's prime time, IMHO.
http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu299/lord_arles/manu.jpg

Best in some categories and right there at the top in the rest of them.

[Cane]

With Manu choosing to rest and train for the NBA instead of playing FIBA basketball; we could see a pretty damn good Ginobili next year as long as he stays healthy. Manu started off pretty rusty this past season after missing a lot of time recovering from injury/surgery.

While he may not be dunking as much as he used to, he still had some pretty sick highlight plays FWIW. The ones that stand out the most were his blocks - the one against Kevin Durant and the one on KG that technically didn't count...even Jim Rome was giving praise.

Imo I think next season is his best shot at securing the third best SG spot in the NBA since he'll be playing for Argentina afterwards and who knows whats going to happen to the basketball scene with a lockout.

[024]

ginobili is not going to be anything but a role player now. he might be a crafty and dangerous role player but a role player nonetheless.

[Chomag]

If there was one player in the NBA that I thought could keep re-developing his game to fit his current abilities it would be Manu.

After saying that though, yes Manu is no longer in his prime, but he wont be falling off the face of the map for awhile.

[vander]

:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin:rollin


are you kidding?
He was past his prime in 09

[Man In Black]

When it comes to prime, All things Ginobili is bolded for your perusal.

For you Duck Lovers out there, please read each definition twice. It might take a 2nd time for you guys to get it.

Prime people, if you're going to argue it, at least know what it is. Because from the looks of it, the OP and some people really do not know what it means. Also, there are role players who are stars. What's Miami going to call LeBron & Bosh? They too, will have defined roles. All players do, and it's the ones that doe theirs best that win titles. Our team has a championship past and they're still relevant, even though the 4-letter and it's ilk have been telling us all that the Spurs have been dead since 05.
DON'T POKE THE ZOMBIE!

prime   [prahym] Show IPA adjective, noun, verb, primed, prim·ing.
–adjective
1. of the first importance; demanding the fullest consideration: a prime requisite.
2. of the greatest relevance or significance: a prime example.
3. of the highest eminence or rank: the prime authority on Chaucer.
4. of the greatest commercial value: prime building lots.
5. first-rate: This ale is prime!
6. (of meat, esp. of beef) noting or pertaining to the first grade or best quality: prime ribs of beef.
7. first in order of time, existence, or development; earliest; primitive.
8. basic; fundamental: the prime axioms of his philosophy.
9.Mathematics . (of any two or more numbers) having no common divisor except unity: The number 2 is prime to 9.
–noun
10. the most flourishing stage or state.
11. the time of early manhood or womanhood: the prime of youth.
12. the period or state of greatest perfection or vigor of human life: a man in his prime.
13. the choicest or best part of anything.
14. (esp. in the grading of U.S. beef) a grade, classification, or designation indicating the highest or most desirable quality.
15. the beginning or earliest stage of any period.
16. the spring of the year.
17. the first hour or period of the day, after sunrise.
18. Banking . prime rate.
19. Ecclesiastical . the second of the seven canonical hours or the service for it, originally fixed for the first hour of the day.
20. Mathematics .a. prime number.
b. one of the equal parts into which a unit is primarily divided.
c. the mark (′) indicating such a division: a, a′.
21. Fencing . the first of eight defensive positions.
22. Music . a. unison ( def. 2 ) .
b. (in a scale) the tonic or keynote.
23. Linguistics . any basic, indivisible unit used in linguistic analysis.
24. Metallurgy . a piece of tin plate free from visible defects.
–verb (used with object)
25. to prepare or make ready for a particular purpose or operation.
26. to supply (a firearm) with powder for communicating fire to a charge.
27. to lay a train of powder to (a charge, mine, etc.).
28. to pour or admit liquid into (a pump) to expel air and prepare for action.
29. to put fuel into (a carburetor) before starting an engine, in order to insure a sufficiently rich mixture at the start.
30. to cover (a surface) with a preparatory coat or color, as in painting.
31. to supply or equip with information, words, etc., for use: The politician was primed by his aides for the press conference.
32. to harvest the bottom leaves from (a tobacco plant).
–verb (used without object)
33. (of a boiler) to deliver or discharge steam containing an excessive amount of water.
34. to harvest the bottom leaves from a tobacco plant.
Origin:
bef. 1000; 1910–15 for def. 5; (adj.) ME (< OF prim ) < L prīmus first (superl. corresponding to prior prior1 ); (n.) in part deriv. of the adj.; in part continuing ME prim ( e ) first canonical hour, OE prim < L prīma ( hōra ) first (hour); (v.) appar. deriv. of the adj.

—Related forms
primeness, noun
non·prime, adjective
re·prime, verb (used with object), -primed, -prim·ing.
self-primed, adjective
un·primed, adjective
well-primed, adjective

[ElNono]

ginobili is not going to be anything but a role player now. he might be a crafty and dangerous role player but a role player nonetheless.

I think he's more than a role player. I don't think we make the playoffs last season if he doesn't step it up a notch when Tony went down. Role players normally don't have that extra gear to go to.

That said, I'm sure he prefers that everyone is healthy and playing well instead of having to be 'supermanu' night in and out.

[DAF86]

2007/2008 was Manu's prime time, IMHO.
http://i657.photobucket.com/albums/uu299/lord_arles/manu.jpg

Best in some categories and right there at the top in the rest of them.

2001-2005/06 Was Manu's physical prime. In '07 Manu had better stats 'cause he played more/had more responsabilites because of injuries to Tony and Tim.

[Manufan909]

Where's your response? YOURS. I keep pointing out that when Manu sees Miami on the schedule, he ramps his game up and then what does he do? He outplays Wade. That's all the guy does. I've shown that statistically. It's been done...over and over. So again, where is your response? Saying he is out of his prime would lead many to believe that he doesn't have any serious game. That's a huge mistake. Let's just say that Ginobili has serious game and every time he's faced Miami, he's used it to obliterate DWade and his team. I expect that even in a season where they've picked up pieces that have yet to show us anything but possible potential. You can't carry over LBJ and Bosh's averages over as Alpha dogs of previous teams and just say that's what's going to happen. That's not how this TEAM game works.

If this is all you got, W-Ace, then I've already won and proven my point. What little game you had, went away when you decided to ask Spurs fan for HELP!

You should quote your stats so I can see.:king

[Man In Black]

You should quote your stats so I can see.:king
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4617696#post4617696

[it's me]

F u

[kaji157]

ginobili is not going to be anything but a role player now. he might be a crafty and dangerous role player but a role player nonetheless.

Role players are not ranked by almost all sportwriters as a top 5 SG for 5 consecutive years.

[gospursgojas]

manu= roy. when healthy good. but when is the key word.

Rookie of the Year???

[024]

if ginobili tries to be anything more than a role player next year, he will be too fatigued/or suffer more injuries by the end of the season to help the spurs. last year is a good indication of ginobili's inconsistency. he started out slow, then ended the season with a strong finish. but he also looked tired in the playoffs and delivered some mediocre games. ginobili is only getting older and less athletic. he's not going to magically revert to 08 form.

ginobili will not be able to drive as much as he wants, and will have to slow down to adjust to his declining athleticism. if he does not, he will suffer more injuries. while he may deliver some great games, his inconsistency would ultimately hurt the spurs. ginobili needs to adapt, which means sliding into the spot up shooter/passer role who plays defense. this will take a lot of his game away from him but at least he can still meaningfully contribute when the time comes.

[ezau]

Last year, in a game against the Lakers wherein the Spurs won, I remember Jeff Van Gundy saying that Manu has the quickest last step of any player in the NBA. That's first time I heard of it, but hey, Van Gundy made sense when he said that.

[Tracy McGrady]

Manu'll be like me. I like his game, but if he gets injured again it will suck for you Spurs fans.

[mountainballer]

past his prime? yes.
still special? yes.
crucial question for the Spurs next 2 seasons will be: is Tony past his prime?

[DaDakota]

Guys from Argentina are prime until 34-35, how old is Manu?

DD

[Manufan909]

if ginobili tries to be anything more than a role player next year, he will be too fatigued/or suffer more injuries by the end of the season to help the spurs. last year is a good indication of ginobili's inconsistency. he started out slow, then ended the season with a strong finish. but he also looked tired in the playoffs and delivered some mediocre games. ginobili is only getting older and less athletic. he's not going to magically revert to 08 form.

ginobili will not be able to drive as much as he wants, and will have to slow down to adjust to his declining athleticism. if he does not, he will suffer more injuries. while he may deliver some great games, his inconsistency would ultimately hurt the spurs. ginobili needs to adapt, which means sliding into the spot up shooter/passer role who plays defense. this will take a lot of his game away from him but at least he can still meaningfully contribute when the time comes.

I believe he had a perfectly fine reason for having a slow start, wasn't he recovering from injury? My memory is hazy, I thought he got hurt in 08 at the Olympics, why was he just barely recovering in 09, that makes no... oh yeah, he hurt his other foot.:bang

And I don't think you can take the passion out of Ginobili's game, it would be as harmful as if you took away Duncan's fundamentals. He just needs his PT to be monitored more than ever before.

Unless most of this happens:

- TP reverts to 08-09
- Duncan stays relatively good because Tiago and Blair are able to take some load off in the post
- Hill continues to improve
- Alonzo/Anderson/Neal/Temple shine as new Spurs.
- RJ somewhat meets his lowered expectations

But I expect a healthy combo of TP/Hill will allow Manu to pick and choose when he takes over more than anything else. Hopefully whenever the rotation settles he's playing with two of RJ/Blair/Splitter, I believe he makes them much better (just assuming with Tiago cuz he can cut to the basket like Dejuan)

[kaji157]

if ginobili tries to be anything more than a role player next year, he will be too fatigued/or suffer more injuries by the end of the season to help the spurs. last year is a good indication of ginobili's inconsistency. he started out slow, then ended the season with a strong finish. but he also looked tired in the playoffs and delivered some mediocre games. ginobili is only getting older and less athletic. he's not going to magically revert to 08 form.

ginobili will not be able to drive as much as he wants, and will have to slow down to adjust to his declining athleticism. if he does not, he will suffer more injuries. while he may deliver some great games, his inconsistency would ultimately hurt the spurs. ginobili needs to adapt, which means sliding into the spot up shooter/passer role who plays defense. this will take a lot of his game away from him but at least he can still meaningfully contribute when the time comes.

The reason Manu started slow was because he came off from a foot fracture.
Look how much time is taking to Yao to come back from that same injury.
He wasn´t by any means, "tired" on the PO, he did all in his powers to get the team to the winning line. The team just lacked defense against PHX, he scored around 25 in 2 games on great percentages and we lost both. Duncan looked tired in that series, not Manu.
Not to say that Ginobili also needed to took care of PG duties for half a season, and that really cuts on your legs if your usual position is SG.

[Mel_13]

Is he past his peak?
Yes

Is he past his prime?
Depends on how you define prime. For athletes, it typically refers to a range of years including time before and after the peak. If Manu isn't past his prime, he's certainly at the tail end of his prime.

Is he worth the price of admission?
Absolutely.

[VuK]

He is. He's not as atletic as he used to be, but he can still shoot, pass and defend the opponent. Not to mention his hustle play.
He's a freaking warior, you know it.

[mingus]

Manu did have I pretty inconsistent series against the Suns. I think part of that inconsistency was having TP back. Manu didn't dominate the ball as much as he did when tp was out. The lack of spacing really hurt everybodys game though I think as much as anything. With more spacing Manu has more room to operate in that series. they weren't letting him get in the paint because they'd just sag way of of RJ.

[ALVAREZ6]

He is athletically past his prime, but as far as, IQ and skills go he is peaking right now.
Earlier on, I thought that he wouldn't have a long career with his physical playing style and his seemingly reckless disregard for his own safety. As time has passed, Manu has developed his game in such a way that I can see him being an effective player past the point where his speed and agility leave him. He has a deadly three point shot that is tough to defend and his passing skills are way above average. He is one of the smartest and quickest reacting players in the league he has an endless supply of shots and moves going to the basket.
Manu is probably the most valuable player in the league when it comes to intangibles. He rarely makes mistakes and even when he does, he hustles on the other end of the floor to make a block, steal or take a charge. He is one of the most unique players in basketball history. He is never the quickest, fastest player on the floor, but he usually comes away with the big play over a more talented player because he is so crafty. He is average height and rail thin, but he is surprisingly strong. He turns any physical disadvantage into an advantage because he is intelligent and uses his body in the most effective and optimal possible manner.
I can really see Manu being a game changing type of player for a good number of years. He could evolve into a clutch bench scoring, defensive specialist (he already is) type and extend his career for a long time.

This is exactly what I was going to say.

Manu is obviously not in his athletic prime, but with that said, he is just as effective as he has ever been. It's really a tough question to respond to because there are a lot of variables, and as everybody knows it weighs a lot on whether he's healthy or not.

The way Manu played towards the end of last season was the best basketball in such a stretch of time he's ever played in his life, and that's due to his increasing IQ and small skills he never stops developing and improving. His game is becoming more versatile in the ways he helps the team win, but obviously his athleticism has declined and has been declining for a while now.

[ALVAREZ6]

ginobili is not going to be anything but a role player now. he might be a crafty and dangerous role player but a role player nonetheless.
Except he's a star. He is streaky, but he's more than a "role player" for the Spurs and has been more for a while. Role players can be replaced with other role players around the league on any given team. Given Manu's relatively small salary for his contributions, Manu could not be replaced on the Spurs roster by anyone in the league. You would have had to pay double his salary in order to find a player to do that.

[024]

for ginobili, you have to factor in his tendency to get injured when you evaluate him as a player. injuries make him inconsistent as he teeters back and forth into the lineup and injuries will be an unavoidable consequence as long as ginobili plays as he did in the past. if he does not adjust, we will see more bad streaks from him. ginobili was great in the 08 regular season but suffered an injury in the playoffs against the lakers, was largely inconsistent in 09 and suffered a season ending injury, and was too tired/playing with a broken nose in the playoffs last season. it's not going to get any better unless ginobili gives up his regular style of play.

also, i never said ginobili wasn't important to the team and that he was just a role player in the past. i just claimed that ginobili needs to be a role player now so he can be consistent and help the spurs when it matters. no point in pretending that he can still play like he did in his late 20s. spurs should just accept ginobili's decline and hope hill/jefferson/splitter can pick up his scoring load.

[DAF86]

Rookie of the Year???

Who is that reporter in your sig?

[ALVAREZ6]

Who is that reporter in your sig?

Ines Sainz of Mexico's TV Azteca


http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/news/story?id=5564228

AKA the hottest reporter:

http://urbansportstalk.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/ines-sainz3.jpg

[Ginobilirules]

Stupid post"" truly Manu who is hands down the 2nd best sg still today in the game behind only kobe, and has at least 3 great yrs left in his prime. he's in the middle of his prime dont' fool yourself into thinking otherwise. i've stated this fact many times he is still much better than wade is right now and does things that wade cant do. wade is way over rated and Manu eats wade up most every time they go head to head, GET IT STRAIGHT"

[Lukor]

Stupid post"" truly Manu who is hands down the 2nd best sg still today in the game behind only kobe, and has at least 3 great yrs left in his prime. he's in the middle of his prime dont' fool yourself into thinking otherwise. i've stated this fact many times he is still much better than wade is right now and does things that wade cant do. wade is way over rated and Manu eats wade up most every time they go head to head, GET IT STRAIGHT"

I'd like to have some of your Kool-Aid.

[Ginobilirules]

Of course, he's still good though. Prime Manu would get to the rim everytime he wanted, now he can't.
you are a total idiot and have zero knowledge Manu still gets to the rim whenever he desires and takes over games at will and lately" he's been staying more healthy

[Ginobilirules]

I'd like to have some of your Kool-Aid.
typical uneducated dallas fan" OPEN YOUR EYES

need i say more? Duh? da da da da ll as fa fa fan"

[Ace]

Stupid post"" truly Manu who is hands down the 2nd best sg still today in the game behind only kobe, and has at least 3 great yrs left in his prime. he's in the middle of his prime dont' fool yourself into thinking otherwise. i've stated this fact many times he is still much better than wade is right now and does things that wade cant do. wade is way over rated and Manu eats wade up most every time they go head to head, GET IT STRAIGHT"

Manu better than Wade? :lmao

[Ginobilirules]

Where's your response? YOURS. I keep pointing out that when Manu sees Miami on the schedule, he ramps his game up and then what does he do? He outplays Wade. That's all the guy does. I've shown that statistically. It's been done...over and over. So again, where is your response? Saying he is out of his prime would lead many to believe that he doesn't have any serious game. That's a huge mistake. Let's just say that Ginobili has serious game and every time he's faced Miami, he's used it to obliterate DWade and his team. I expect that even in a season where they've picked up pieces that have yet to show us anything but possible potential. You can't carry over LBJ and Bosh's averages over as Alpha dogs of previous teams and just say that's what's going to happen. That's not how this TEAM game works.

If this is all you got, W-Ace, then I've already won and proven my point. What little game you had, went away when you decided to ask Spurs fan for HELP!
amen"" to man in black HE GETS THE FACTS RIGHT"" and haters are always jealous and make baseless weak excuses when they know ginobili rips wade apart and does obliterate him as Manu always gets amped up to destroy wade true fact". ginobilis crossover and over all atheliticism and skills are just better than wades good skills. the media is paying more attention this in recent yrs.

[Ace]

amen"" to man in black HE GETS THE FACTS RIGHT"" and haters are always jealous and make baseless weak excuses when they know ginobili rips wade apart and does obliterate him as Manu always gets amped up to destroy wade true fact". ginobilis crossover and over all atheliticism and skills are just better than wades good skills. the media is paying more attention this in recent yrs.

:lmao :lmao I must be getting trolled nobody is this dumb.

[Ginobilirules]

Manu better than Wade? :lmao
ace we know you're a homer so your lonely weak opinion doesnt even count seriously"". the only joke here is you"". blind idiots like you are infested on these sites how sad'". Manu destroys wade when they go head to head and gets up more him than anybody. also"" Ginobili does skils i've never seen wade be able to do example watch the youtube video for Ginobili walks the great wall of china"" i remember that too well sick"" how Manu literally climbed up with a fierce dunk on yao when both were healthy just two yrs ago and then last yr when Manu went high in the air to sweetly reject a grizzlie player named either oj mayo or rudy gay with a sick block"" that was last yr. NEVER seen wade do that'". and Manu snuffed wade himself a couple times last yr once in miami"" and in sa town too"" both on drive attempts"". sweeeeeeeet"" sIIIIIck'" snuffs eat your heart out ace'" wade has NEVER DONE THAT TO SUPER MANU"" simply amazing

[Ace]

ace we know you're a homer so your lonely weak opinion doesnt even count seriously"". the only joke here is you"". blind idiots like you are infested on these sites how sad'". Manu destroys wade when they go head to head and gets up more him than anybody. also"" Ginobili does skils i've never seen wade be able to do example watch the youtube video for Ginobili walks the great wall of china"" i remember that too well sick"" how Manu literally climbed up with a fierce dunk on yao when both were healthy just two yrs ago and then last yr when Manu went high in the air to sweetly reject a grizzlie player named either oj mayo or rudy gay with a sick block"" that was last yr. NEVER seen wade do that'". and Manu snuffed wade himself a couple times last yr once in miami"" and in sa town too"" both on drive attempts"". sweeeeeeeet"" sIIIIIck'" snuffs eat your heart out ace'" wade has NEVER DONE THAT TO SUPER MANU"" simply amazing
Great troll :lmao

You must be Man In Black's brother

[TD 21]

Ines Sainz of Mexico's TV Azteca


http://sports.espn.go.com/new-york/nfl/news/story?id=5564228

AKA the hottest reporter:

http://urbansportstalk.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/ines-sainz3.jpg

I heard the story and saw a pint sized picture of her that only showed her face (and not even her entire face, because she was turned to the side). Suffice it to say, that picture didn't do her justice.

I have to say, she deserves what she got. Either for being unprofessional by showing up to a cover a sporting event looking as if it she were going to a club or by being oblivious to the type of attention she'd draw (which I don't buy for a second).

She may not have liked what was allegedly said to her, but she can't honestly be surprised by it. Let's face it, being as attractive as she is and dressing as inappropriately as she did given her job, she was asking for it.

[Dex]

I heard the story and saw a pint sized picture of her that only showed her face (and not even her entire face, because she was turned to the side). Suffice it to say, that picture didn't do her justice.

I have to say, she deserves what she got. Either for being unprofessional by showing up to a cover a sporting event looking as if it she were going to a club or by being oblivious to the type of attention she'd draw (which I don't buy for a second).

She may not have liked what was allegedly said to her, but she can't honestly be surprised by it. Let's face it, being as attractive as she is and dressing as inappropriately as she did given her job, she was asking for it.

This. She wouldn't be the first chick to let her tits hang out, then throw a fit when people take notice.

Sure, the behavior of the players is completely unprofessional and uncalled for, but these are some of the most testosterone packed male athletes in the world, not other business professionals. What did she really expect?

[TMTTRIO]

Well Manu may not be in his prime anymore with some loss in athleticism and more injury prone but this video from last season shows he can still be a big contributor and can still bring it. Also he can always be our bat swatter :).

MzMRbPJ5YK8&feature=related

[ALVAREZ6]

I heard the story and saw a pint sized picture of her that only showed her face (and not even her entire face, because she was turned to the side). Suffice it to say, that picture didn't do her justice.

I have to say, she deserves what she got. Either for being unprofessional by showing up to a cover a sporting event looking as if it she were going to a club or by being oblivious to the type of attention she'd draw (which I don't buy for a second).

She may not have liked what was allegedly said to her, but she can't honestly be surprised by it. Let's face it, being as attractive as she is and dressing as inappropriately as she did given her job, she was asking for it.

Oh I completely agree, it's the first thing I said. Women are either retarded or just playing people most of the time. She wants attention, no one knew who the fuck she was until last night when she appeared on a main story on ESPN.com

Now all sports fans know who that slut is, and LOL @ her saying she was embarrassed and harassed, it's exactly what she wanted, LMAO why else do you walk into an NFL locker room dressed like a whore with a mic in your hand? Might as well have worn nothing, and charged a nice NFL price for post game fuck fests in the bathroom.

[ElNono]

for ginobili, you have to factor in his tendency to get injured when you evaluate him as a player. injuries make him inconsistent as he teeters back and forth into the lineup and injuries will be an unavoidable consequence as long as ginobili plays as he did in the past. if he does not adjust, we will see more bad streaks from him. ginobili was great in the 08 regular season but suffered an injury in the playoffs against the lakers, was largely inconsistent in 09 and suffered a season ending injury, and was too tired/playing with a broken nose in the playoffs last season. it's not going to get any better unless ginobili gives up his regular style of play.

The fact that Manu came into the league in 2002 and the first 'serious' injury you can pin point is in 2008, really tells the story how his 'tendency to get injured' is just really plain silly and overblown.
Manu played 93, 87, 97, 78, 95, 91, 44 and 85 games during his 8 seasons in the league. And the broken nose has nothing to do with any tendencies. He just got elbowed good to the nose, and broke. Could have happened to the healthiest guy. It's a contact sport, so it happens.

I agree that being tired is a factor, that not only applies to him but also to Tim. Unfortunately, with Tony going down for stretches, the other two had to pick it up considering the rest was basically average (perhaps with the exception being Hill). But that's something we've been having to deal with for a while now. Tim needs help inside and we need more people to contribute.
I also thought he played a fine series against the Suns, even if he didn't shoot well in some games. I mean, if you want to pick apart the problems we had in that series, Gino was among the least of the problems. We couldn't win even when he was shooting a high percentage.

[Matches Malone]

I heard the story and saw a pint sized picture of her that only showed her face (and not even her entire face, because she was turned to the side). Suffice it to say, that picture didn't do her justice.

I have to say, she deserves what she got. Either for being unprofessional by showing up to a cover a sporting event looking as if it she were going to a club or by being oblivious to the type of attention she'd draw (which I don't buy for a second).
She may not have liked what was allegedly said to her, but she can't honestly be surprised by it. Let's face it, being as attractive as she is and dressing as inappropriately as she did given her job, she was asking for it.

There is "no deserving" or "being unprofessional" or "she was asking for it" here. If the Jets extended an official press pass to her, which means that she was cleared to enter that locker room and deserved to be addressed with all the decorum and respect that a female reporter demands when she is conducting an interview.

Regarding what she was wearing being inappropriate: Jeans and a white button-downed blouse with boots has never been a club in-fashion garment. Maybe you should leave mom's basement one of these days and check some clubs to get an idea of what people wear today.

By the way, Inez Sainz has more than 250 interviews with the top athletes of almost every sport. Soccer locker room are common stages for her interviews. Does she profit on her former career and attractiveness to get access and conduct these interviews?: YES. Does she deserve the catcalling and testosterone-charged comments?: NO



Oh I completely agree, it's the first thing I said. Women are either retarded or just playing people most of the time. She wants attention, no one knew who the fuck she was until last night when she appeared on a main story on ESPN.com
Now all sports fans know who that slut is, and LOL @ her saying she was embarrassed and harassed, it's exactly what she wanted, LMAO why else do you walk into an NFL locker room dressed like a whore with a mic in your hand? Might as well have worn nothing, and charged a nice NFL price for post game fuck fests in the bathroom.

You statement about her wanting attention is probably the only lucid one from your asinine discourse. Obviously, genius, that she wants attention. She is, for God's sake, a blazing-hot, former Miss Spain, nowadays reporter that uses the talents that God gave her to land a list of high-rated interviews that very few people can racked up. This, my troglodyte friend, doesn't equal to be a slut or a whore. Maybe, you should finally man up and ask you good old uncle to get you to your town's red zone to check some real sluts. Not that you would finally get to "do it", but at least to give you some idea of how properly qualify people. Check my prior statement of who she is and what she does.

This is 2010 America, where reporters, women and men alike, are welcome everywhere, including the showers and lockers of NFL players, if they have press passes extended by the club. If any of the players would have the minimum tone of respect and honor, they should have piped up to stop this unfortunate event from developing. If any of them, might have felt "outraged" by her dress-code, they should have contacted the club officials to escort her out of the premises (although she has the press pass credited by the Jets PR department). None of this had happened, these mofos are on the hook, with Jets owner Woody Johnson issuing an apology and telling ESPN that an investigation will be conducted.

Rather that all sports fans knowing who that slut is, all ST posters knows what kind of sexiest , discriminatory, misogynist person you are (BTW, go and look this last one on the dictionary, you'll love it).

Guys, try to put yourselves in the position of who you are blasting. It would prevent you from looking like fools.
Cheers!

[ohmwrecker]

She is, for God's sake, a blazing-hot, former Miss Spain, nowadays reporter that uses the talents that God gave her to land a list of high-rated interviews that very few people can racked up. This, my troglodyte friend, doesn't equal to be a slut or a whore.

She has a fantastic ass, but she's kind of a butterface . . . what does this have to do with Manu?

[Matches Malone]

That Manu is still in his prime and she is a prime piece of woman, I guess.

[TD 21]

There is "no deserving" or "being unprofessional" or "she was asking for it" here. If the Jets extended an official press pass to her, which means that she was cleared to enter that locker room and deserved to be addressed with all the decorum and respect that a female reporter demands when she is conducting an interview.

Regarding what she was wearing being inappropriate: Jeans and a white button-downed blouse with boots has never been a club in-fashion garment. Maybe you should leave mom's basement one of these days and check some clubs to get an idea of what people wear today.

By the way, Inez Sainz has more than 250 interviews with the top athletes of almost every sport. Soccer locker room are common stages for her interviews. Does she profit on her former career and attractiveness to get access and conduct these interviews?: YES. Does she deserve the catcalling and testosterone-charged comments?: NO

Yes, there is. Just because you don't like the outcome of something (though in this case, she clearly did; she's getting exactly what she wanted out of this: publicity), you can't complain about it when you knew going in what it would be. It's like if a fan of a rival team wears their jersey in "enemy territory", then complains that they were cussed at, threatened and had beer thrown on. That's par for the course and one should expect it if they're ignorant enough to do that.

Don't give me this shit about "she's just wearing everyday clothes and didn't have an agenda". You don't think she knows how her ass looks in those jeans? All you have to do is go to YouTube and type in her name to find out that she's not exactly shy when it comes to showing off her ass...ets. As for the club comment, the gist of it was that it was inappropriate attire for what she was doing, genius.

You're missing the point. She deserves it not for being attractive, but for being all dolled up to go cover a sporting event. Those two things in conjunction, her attractiveness and the way she presented herself, indicates that she was clearly asking for it and had an agenda.

[Mel_13]

she's getting exactly what she wanted out of this: publicity)

Bingo.

[Matches Malone]

Bingo.

So because she is using he "appeal" to get some publicity, in your opinion, she deserved the catcalls and rude comments.

On the other hand, you can see her in several other of her interviews wearing clothing even more provocative that jeans and a blouse, and the targets of her interviews never reacted like that.
Come on!

[Mel_13]

So because she is using he "appeal" to get some publicity, in your opinion, she deserved the catcalls and rude comments.

On the other hand, you can see her in several other of her interviews wearing clothing even more provocative that jeans and a blouse, and the targets of her interviews never reacted like that.
Come on!

My post was one single word which expressed agreement that she wanted, and received, publicity. I did not quote the rest of that post, so your characterization of my opinion has no basis.

I do not believe that she deserved the catcalls and rude comments. She has, however, capitalized on the event as evidenced by her immediate booking on multiple American TV shows to bring attention to herself.

[Matches Malone]

Yes, there is. Just because you don't like the outcome of something (though in this case, she clearly did; she's getting exactly what she wanted out of this: publicity), you can't complain about it when you knew going in what it would be. It's like if a fan of a rival team wears their jersey in "enemy territory", then complains that they were cussed at, threatened and had beer thrown on. That's par for the course and one should expect it if they're ignorant enough to do that.

Don't give me this shit about "she's just wearing everyday clothes and didn't have an agenda". You don't think she knows how her ass looks in those jeans? All you have to do is go to YouTube and type in her name to find out that she's not exactly shy when it comes to showing off her ass...ets. As for the club comment, the gist of it was that it was inappropriate attire for what she was doing, genius.
You're missing the point. She deserves it not for being attractive, but for being all dolled up to go cover a sporting event. Those two things in conjunction, her attractiveness and the way she presented herself, indicates that she was clearly asking for it and had an agenda.

The Jets PR extended the press pass knowing who she was and what she was wearing. If her attire was good enough for the club's PR, it should have been good enough for the players in that locker room too. Woody Johnson offering an apology pretty much render weightless your argument, right?

[Man In Black]

I see (W)ace doesn't feel like continuing this debate with ME.

Say hello to my Hammer, dude.

Bring it. Hey, you know what, I watched that last game where Manu kills Wade over and over again in Miami. He takes 4 guys to the rim and dunks on their heads. Check it, it's at the AAC and was played March 16, 2010. For someone you say is past his prime, he's doing a great job of kicking Miami ass. Almost as good as me in kicking yours.

[Man In Black]

I see (W)ace doesn't feel like continuing this debate with ME.

Say hello to my Hammer, dude.

Bring it. Hey, you know what, I watched that last game where Manu kills Wade over and over again in Miami. He takes 4 guys to the rim and dunks on their heads. Check it, it's at the AAC and was played March 16, 2010. For someone you say is past his prime, he's doing a great job of kicking Miami ass. Almost as good as me in kicking yours.

[Ace]

I see (W)ace doesn't feel like continuing this debate with ME.

Say hello to my Hammer, dude.

Bring it. Hey, you know what, I watched that last game where Manu kills Wade over and over again in Miami. He takes 4 guys to the rim and dunks on their heads. Check it, it's at the AAC and was played March 16, 2010. For someone you say is past his prime, he's doing a great job of kicking Miami ass. Almost as good as me in kicking yours.
Your arguments for Manu being better than Wade are just so laughable that I no longer take you serious. Your trying to compare the two when then go head to head, but neither are guarding each other majority of the game so its a moot point. All it takes is a look at the season stats and you can see Wade is easily better. You refuse to answer my question but turn around and still say Manu is better. So unless your going to tell me that you would build a franchise around Manu over Wade, we're done.

[Man In Black]

All it takes is a look at the season stats and you can see Wade is easily better. You refuse to answer my question but turn around and still say Manu is better. So unless your going to tell me that you would build a franchise around Manu over Wade, we're done.
C'mon Chicken...Let's do this...Let's BATTLE.
Season stats? Please motherfucker...season stats my ass. Prove to me Wade is easily better. Ask your questions. I'll shred each and every one. If you got game, then ask. Because up until now, your game has been pretty non-existent. SO I CHALLENGE YOU. ASK, if you dare. But I think you won't, because you ain't down with YET ANOTHER ASS-KICKING.
But then again, you might have something to ACTUALLY bring...(W)ace.

[Man In Black]

Also, why isn't there any video of Wade blocking Ginobili?

[Ace]

C'mon Chicken...Let's do this...Let's BATTLE.
Season stats? Please motherfucker...season stats my ass. Prove to me Wade is easily better. Ask your questions. I'll shred each and every one. If you got game, then ask. Because up until now, your game has been pretty non-existent. SO I CHALLENGE YOU. ASK, if you dare. But I think you won't, because you ain't down with YET ANOTHER ASS-KICKING.
But then again, you might have something to ACTUALLY bring...(W)ace.

I did and you've yet answer a single one. So answer me this, would you build a team around Manu over Wade? You must be bored.

[Ace]

Also, why isn't there any video of Wade blocking Ginobili?

Is that how you determine the better player? :lmao :lmao

[Man In Black]

I'd build one around Ginobili. Why not. He's accomplished more than Wade has. Wade's younger but, since the Spurs have a dominant big, and an attacking PG. The system requires a SG with creativity and RANGE. Wade makes less 3 pointers and shoot's a lower 3FG%. So, in the Spurs case, they already have the best SG for them.
Wade has 246 3's made at a 3fg% of 28.9%. Look it up. I didn't make that shit up.
Ginobili has 804 3's made at a 3fg% of 37.6%.

In the playoffs, it's like this:
Wade has 51 3's made at a 3fg% of 34.7%
Ginobili has 190 3's made at a 3fg% of 37.5%
That's now 2 times Ginobili has Wade beat at a critical stat.

Let's assume that they are exactly the same age. If that's the case, it's easily Ginobili, because he has a more complete all-around game.

So, what is it that makes Wade EASILY Better than Ginobili. You better not talk season stats because that's, like you say, indicative of what Wade does with what he has.
But, take that out of the equation and POINT out EXACTLY, what it is that you say, makes WADE EASILY better. So what is it.

Oh and the video basically means the following: For as large as the internet is, and for as powerful as Google can be for a search engine, there is no video of Wade blocking Ginobili. Think about that, they've met 14 times since Wade got to the league. And for all the times they've played, you can't tell me that he hasn't tried to defend Ginobili and gotten at least 1 block? What does that tell you. It means that Wade pretty much chooses to not try to stop Ginobili.
It basically means that no video for Wade means he hasn't attempted to stop Ginobili.

NEXT QUESTION. Or do you need more of an answer...you simpleton.

[The Franchise]

Manu has been past his prime for about 2 years now, but it doesn't mean that he's not a very good player. He's just not as good as he used to be.

[Man In Black]

Manu has been past his prime for about 2 years now, but it doesn't mean that he's not a very good player. He's just not as good as he used to be.
Okay Rocket fan...quantify that for me. He's not as good as he used to be. Explain why, and then show us what it is that proves that he isn't still in his prime. It's something heat fan can't or hasn't been able to do.

[The Franchise]

Okay Rocket fan...quantify that for me. He's not as good as he used to be. Explain why, and then show us what it is that proves that he isn't still in his prime. It's something heat fan can't or hasn't been able to do.

Because even when healthy now he just doesn't play with the same consistency as he once did. Manu is still a good player, but there was a time when he could come in and turn the teams fortune around on an almost nightly basis. Now you are lucky to get that once in a week(if then). I can only go by his performance on the floor, but he just doesn't seem as effective as he once was. I would like to pose the same question to you. Do you honestly think he is as effective as he once was? If so why?

[Ace]

I'd build one around Ginobili. Why not. He's accomplished more than Wade has. Wade's younger but, since the Spurs have a dominant big, and an attacking PG. The system requires a SG with creativity and RANGE. Wade makes less 3 pointers and shoot's a lower 3FG%. So, in the Spurs case, they already have the best SG for them.
Wade has 246 3's made at a 3fg% of 28.9%. Look it up. I didn't make that shit up.
Ginobili has 804 3's made at a 3fg% of 37.6%.

In the playoffs, it's like this:
Wade has 51 3's made at a 3fg% of 34.7%
Ginobili has 190 3's made at a 3fg% of 37.5%
That's now 2 times Ginobili has Wade beat at a critical stat.

Let's assume that they are exactly the same age. If that's the case, it's easily Ginobili, because he has a more complete all-around game.

So, what is it that makes Wade EASILY Better than Ginobili. You better not talk season stats because that's, like you say, indicative of what Wade does with what he has.
But, take that out of the equation and POINT out EXACTLY, what it is that you say, makes WADE EASILY better. So what is it.

Oh and the video basically means the following: For as large as the internet is, and for as powerful as Google can be for a search engine, there is no video of Wade blocking Ginobili. Think about that, they've met 14 times since Wade got to the league. And for all the times they've played, you can't tell me that he hasn't tried to defend Ginobili and gotten at least 1 block? What does that tell you. It means that Wade pretty much chooses to not try to stop Ginobili.
It basically means that no video for Wade means he hasn't attempted to stop Ginobili.

NEXT QUESTION. Or do you need more of an answer...you simpleton.

You'd build around a player who can't play at a high level for entire season? So is 3 pt shooting the only thing important for building a team around? If three point shooting determines the better player then your say Ray Allen is better than Manu? Not sure what significance one block plays in determining the better player. Like I said your arguments are ridiculously laughable. Just look below:
2010 playoffs:
Wade
PPG 33.2
RPG 5.60
APG 6.8
EFF +31.40
Manu
PPG 19.4
RPG 3.7
APG 6.0
EFF +19.80
Career stats:
Wade
MPG 37.6
FG% .482
RPG 4.9
APG 6.6
BPG 1.1
PPG 25.4
SPG 1.8

Manu
MPG 27.8
FG% .452
RPG 4.0
APG 3.8
BPG .3
PPG 15.0
SPG 1.5

[Man In Black]

If you say he doesn't "play with the same consistency as he once did," what's your basis?
How do you quantify that?

From a statistical standpoint, he's right where he has always been. I'm a strong supporter of a stat called Points Created. It's like PER so it's not a full picture but it provides a strong foundation for evaluation. A foundation for evaluation is something most posters are too lazy to do.
I need a few minutes to give you the complete stats but I'll post those. I'll post Wade's too. 2 scores will pop. A per minute effectiveness and a per game effectiveness.

[Ace]

Okay Rocket fan...quantify that for me. He's not as good as he used to be. Explain why, and then show us what it is that proves that he isn't still in his prime. It's something heat fan can't or hasn't been able to do.

Somebody already posted the stats and even then you still failed to comprehend it then. Like you want to be spoon fed your stupidity.

[Man In Black]

You'd build around a player who can't play at a high level for entire season? So is 3 pt shooting the only thing important for building a team around? If three point shooting determines the better player then your say Ray Allen is better than Manu? Not sure what significance one block plays in determining the better player.
You can't be this dense can you? You can. I told you how well Manu fits the Spurs and their system and why 3FG% is most important for that particular system. We can say that Ray Allen is a better 3fg shooter, but he isn't better than Ginobili defensively, nor does he pass the ball better. So try again wace. 1 block video of Ginobili on Wade shows us ALL that Manu has attempted to and stopped Wade for all of us to see. Wade not having 1 video back shows us the opposite. That he hasn't stopped Ginobili in all the times, they've played. OR DOES THAT LOGIC ESCAPE YOU?

[Ace]

You can't be this dense can you? You can. I told you how well Manu fits the Spurs and their system and why 3FG% is most important for that particular system. We can say that Ray Allen is a better 3fg shooter, but he isn't better than Ginobili defensively, nor does he pass the ball better. So try again wace. 1 block video of Ginobili on Wade shows us ALL that Manu has attempted to and stopped Wade for all of us to see. Wade not having 1 video back shows us the opposite. That he hasn't stopped Ginobili in all the times, they've played. OR DOES THAT LOGIC ESCAPE YOU?
I say would you build a team around Ginobili and you say he's a good fit for the Spurs that was built around Duncan? The Spurs were not built around Ginobili, so try again. Your not to smart and your avoiding the question. I posted stats and yet you failed to recognize those because they disclaim your argument. Sorry Woman in Black but one block doesn't define one's defense on another beside he made one single play. Which is his .3 BPG :lmao. You don't find it funny that the ratio saying Manu is past is prime is greater than that who say otherwise? Maybe your to stupid to realize that little fact too.

[Ace]

Wade's PER - 25.67
Ginobili's PER - 21.65

[Man In Black]

I say would you build a team around Ginobili and you say he's a good fit for the Spurs that was built around Duncan?
You asked the question. I said that I would build around Ginobili. But on the Spurs, he's a perfect fit. Everywhere he's gone, he's been a champion. DWade can't say that.


The Spurs were not built around Ginobili, so try again. Your not to smart and your avoiding the question.
At first they aren't but, this is a true team. Each player has a designated role and Ginobili's on this team is as important as Tim or Tony. But you fail to recognize that.


I posted stats and yet you failed to recognize those because they disclaim your argument. Sorry Woman in Black but one block doesn't define one's defense on another beside he made one single play.
What it means is that in 14 games of Spurs vs. Heat, there aren't any videos of Wade making defensive play on Ginobili. In a world where one can find pink puppies on video v0THLFJq1Mo,
Why is it, that one CANNOT find a video of DWade playing defense on Ginobili?


Which is his .3 BPG :lmao. You don't find it funny that the ratio saying Manu is past is prime is greater than that who say otherwise? Maybe your to stupid to realize that little fact too. No, what I find too funny is that many people don't even understand the context of the word, PRIME. I count you among them. I'm smarter than you are, been watching this game longer, and know this team better.

Try again. Being the MIB means that there is going to be some issue with someone who disagrees with me. It always seems that at the end, the other poster grows weary of me and then fades away. I think, eventually...you'll do the same. But truthfully, debate some more. The more you post, the more people will see what you really know about hoops. Which'll amount to LESS than I do. :hat

[Sigz]

The fuck happened to Manu's 3pt shot? Dude as bricking a ton last season.

[Mel_13]

career 3pt percentage: 37.6%
2009-10 3pt percentage: 37.7%

[ducks]

minutes played in 2010
minutes played in 2009
minutes played in 2008
minutes played in 2007 and so on




?

[ducks]

minutes played in playoffs 2010
2009
2008
2007 and so on

[Mel_13]

minutes played in 2009-10

Manu: 2150
Tony: 1728

[mingus]

towards the end (in the suns series) Manu had a couple of games where he shot like shit from three. like 2/9 and 2/10 or something. he looked visibly tired in both of those games and had trouble getting to the basket to boot. it also didn't help that the spacing wasn't what it was when Parker was out and you had RJ and Parker in the game a the same time and they were just sagging of of those guys making it hard for Manu to drive.

[ALVAREZ6]

Man in Black, your arguments are retarded.

Manu is my all-time favorite athlete, but come on man, he's not better than Wade.

[Ace]

You asked the question. I said that I would build around Ginobili. But on the Spurs, he's a perfect fit. Everywhere he's gone, he's been a champion. DWade can't say that.
Now your reaching. Manu a champion everywhere he has gone? Where his home country? Your getting desperate with this one.

At first they aren't but, this is a true team. Each player has a designated role and Ginobili's on this team is as important as Tim or Tony. But you fail to recognize that
Where have I failed to realize that? It's a team built around Duncan and was built well by a great franchise but all is irrelevant in saying Manu is better than Wade. The question is would you build a team around Manu or Wade, not who's the better fit in the team built around Duncan.


What it means is that in 14 games of Spurs vs. Heat, there aren't any videos of Wade making defensive play on Ginobili. In a world where one can find pink puppies on video v0THLFJq1Mo,
Why is it, that one CANNOT find a video of DWade playing defense on Ginobili?
Now your going Koolaid_man on me posting random YouTube videos. Like I said your only showing your stupidity knows no bounds the more you go on. One block has very little to do with one's defense on another. Manu has a career .3 BPG compared to Wade's 1.0. So by your logic than makes Wade a much better defender.

No, what I find too funny is that many people don't even understand the context of the word, PRIME. I count you among them. I'm smarter than you are, been watching this game longer, and know this team better.

Try again. Being the MIB means that there is going to be some issue with someone who disagrees with me. It always seems that at the end, the other poster grows weary of me and then fades away. I think, eventually...you'll do the same. But truthfully, debate some more. The more you post, the more people will see what you really know about hoops. Which'll amount to LESS than I do. :hat
You just seemingly don't understand much do you? I posted stats backing myself and you've not really said much but retarded arguments. You just keep begging me to own you, even when I tired to help you save face. :ace

[Ace]

Man in Black, your arguments are retarded.

Manu is my all-time favorite athlete, but come on man, he's not better than Wade.

Listen to this guy. Your embarrassing yourself at this point.

[Man In Black]

Et Tu Alvarez? The point is, if a team was smart and they could choose to build around a player, if Wade & Ginobili were exactly the same age, and had their same unique expereince, Ginobili's road has BETTER prepped him for team success. That's all I'm trying to say. For some teams, The NBA is like a grown up version of AAU. Where it's the star theory that comes into play and that guy gets pushed up the chain. Wade's road wasn't All-State like Darius Miles. But he made his situation great at Marquette. Doesn't mean he ain't good. Doesn't he mean he can't lead a team, it just means that Ginobili has accomplished more as a team player. While Wade was struggling(he didn't play with any kind of real consistency) on the US Olympic Team in 04, Ginobili was leading his team to a gold medal.

But hey....I said he's won at every level...But you're a dumb ass because you don't know that he's been a champ everywhere he's gone. It just takes a little bit of research...Retarded? No...try intellectually superior :king
Let's see:

Ginóbili then entered the 1999 NBA Draft and the San Antonio Spurs selected him late in the second round with the 57th overall pick.[8] However, he did not sign with the Spurs at this point in time. Instead, he returned to Italy to play for Kinder Bologna, which he helped win the 2001 Italian Championship, the 2001 and 2002 Italian Cups, and the 2001 Euroleague, where he was named the Euroleague 2000–01 Euroleague Final Four MVP.[5] He was also named the Italian League MVP in 2000–01 and 2001–02, and made the Italian league's All-Star game three times during this period.[5]
Add the aforementioned Gold, and 3 LOB's, in which 1 of them he should've been at least co-mvp and once again, I take you down And sadly....add an Argentine with you.
You were saying (W)ace?

[ALVAREZ6]

The whole Manu blocking Wade video is stupid, and here's why:

Whether or not Wade has ever blocked Manu...I am not sure, who knows. But it doesn't matter, one block doesn't mean the difference, nor many blocks, as blocking is not the only part of defense. In fact, it's probably the least significant, in my opinion, as sometimes you can get blocks as a result of playing poor defense earlier in the possession but then making up for it, catching up and getting a block.
But regardless, I am not arguing that because of this it doesn't mean Manu isn't a better defender. I think he's a great defender. And even again, all of this is not the main point.

Back to the video aspect, this may explain why there isn't a video of Wade blocking Ginobili. While we know Manu does a lot of amazing, unorthodox crazy plays and a lot of nice dunks for a white boy, especially earlier when he was younger, Wade does more athletically-freakish things than Manu, and more often. He is just more athletic (perhaps because he's black? LOL, again, not really the concern). But that is a fact. He dunks all over people's heads multiple times per game. And has been doing so for his whole career. And he's 2 inches shorter than Manu.
Just watch his highlights, he smashes all over people, and I've watched so many games where he does so 6 or 7 times per game. If I remember correctly, a few seasons back for at least half or most of the season, he lead the league in dunks, and he's 6'4".

So what I'm essentially saying is there is just way more higher-priority highlights out there to put in highlight reels and videos for Wade, compared to Manu. And believe me, I am not taking anything away from Manu, he is a freak as well, but they are simply on different levels. So given this, Manu's followers have a little less to work with for the videos on youtube or anywhere (yes, because the fan groups of each player are the ones putting the videos up).

And this is just arguing against the stupid video argument. Oh yeah, and the Manu block on Wade is not even that impressive, Wade is falling over Tony or whoever it was in the video and Manu comes from behind to erase it. It was help defense. Not nearly as impressive as his blocks on Durant and Garnett from last season. And this connects to my point about the actual material to choose from, for each player, to put in videos. Wade may or may not have blocks similar to the Manu block on Wade, but they don't make the cut/capture the attention for people to care enough to put it online, instead they upload things like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5uRN7iJ5CqQ

[Ace]

Et Tu Alvarez? The point is, if a team was smart and they could choose to build around a player, if Wade & Ginobili were exactly the same age, and had their same unique expereince, Ginobili's road has BETTER prepped him for team success. That's all I'm trying to say. For some teams, The NBA is like a grown up version of AAU. Where it's the star theory that comes into play and that guy gets pushed up the chain. Wade's road wasn't All-State like Darius Miles. But he made his situation great at Marquette. Doesn't mean he ain't good. Doesn't he mean he can't lead a team, it just means that Ginobili has accomplished more as a team player. While Wade was struggling(he didn't play with any kind of real consistency) on the US Olympic Team in 04, Ginobili was leading his team to a gold medal.

But hey....I said he's won at every level...But you're a dumb ass because you don't know that he's been a champ everywhere he's gone. It just takes a little bit of research...Retarded? No...try intellectually superior :king
Let's see:

Add the aforementioned Gold, and 3 LOB's, in which 1 of them he should've been at least co-mvp and once again, I take you down And sadly....add an Argentine with you.
You were saying (W)ace?

They are not the same age. Ginobili at his age has three LOB's and most likely won't see the finals again. Wade has one LOB and one finals MVP, sure deal to win more while still in his prime. He as well has gold while being the leading score on that team. Again your reaching in your arguments and it seems your the only one who thinks Manu is the better player.

[ALVAREZ6]

PS. I'm not even saying I would take Wade over Manu, value per value, because for Manu's contract compared to his worth, I'd probably take him because you just can't find a better investment in the NBA at his price. But I think I'd rather build a franchise around Wade.

[TD 21]

The Jets PR extended the press pass knowing who she was and what she was wearing. If her attire was good enough for the club's PR, it should have been good enough for the players in that locker room too. Woody Johnson offering an apology pretty much render weightless your argument, right?

Who said the players had a problem with her attire? Seemed to me they enjoyed it.

Johnson offering her an apology was obviously for PR.

[diego]

manu's driving game picked up steam over the course of the season and that is really what makes him special, but in the PO, probably from fatigue and tighter D, he was unable to consistently (or productively) penetrate. So hopefully there is more of that as his legs have been healthy for a good while now. I think he'll be able to stay at a good level as long as he can shoot/get his shot off.


as for the wade argument, the driving ability is what makes them comparable (and probably the reason both have had injury problems). Obviously wade has an athletic advantage, and plenty of ability to finish, he's overall a better scorer but as MIB points out manu has significantly better range and has shown the abillity to impact the game on both ends, moreso than wade IMO. For a franchise player, assuming all else is equal you take the younger guy, no questions asked. But in my mind they have always been similar players because of their driving ability, I dont see why some people dismiss the argument entirely.

[Man In Black]

They are not the same age. Ginobili at his age has three LOB's and most likely won't see the finals again. Wade has one LOB and one finals MVP, sure deal to win more while still in his prime. He as well has gold while being the leading score on that team. Again your reaching in your arguments and it seems your the only one who thinks Manu is the better player.
If they were the same age with the same skills...WHO DO YOU TAKE?

[BadOdor]

Is spur fan really arguing they would rather build a team around manu rather than wade?

this is worse than manu>dirk.

[Man In Black]

Is spur fan really arguing they would rather build a team around manu rather than wade?

this is worse than manu>dirk.
No it's not. It's as valid a comparison as MJJ>KBean. Because the comparison is SG vs. SG. Everyone always takes the Big over the Small, unless the Small is Jordan or Oscar Robertson or at some level, Isaiah Thomas.

The question remains, you can play too LAL bandwagon. All you have to do it pick a player and then quantify why. But to make the playing field level, assume that they are the same age, but have their requisite skill sets and experience.

WHO DO YOU TAKE AND WHY?

[Ace]

If they were the same age with the same skills...WHO DO YOU TAKE?

They're not the same age with the same skills. If they had the same skills and same age with its the difference at that point. Just another retarded argument. Face it your the only one dumb enough to say Manu is better than Wade.

[Chieflion]

I take Dwyane Wade because he is better. How does anyone quantify that Manu Ginobili is better than Dwyane Wade? Wade has a higher PER, more all-NBA selections, all-NBA defenisve team selections. He is better than Ginobili when it comes to dominating at almost every aspect of the game. Man In Black has been embarrassing himself throughly in this thread and making Spurs fans look like idiots.

If Ginobili is better than Dwyane Wade, the Spurs would have been 2010 NBA champions.

[BadOdor]

I take Dwyane Wade because he is better. How does anyone quantify that Manu Ginobili is better than Dwyane Wade? Wade has a higher PER, more all-NBA selections, all-NBA defenisve team selections. He is better than Ginobili when it comes to dominating at almost every aspect of the game. Man In Black has been embarrassing himself throughly in this thread and making Spurs fans look like idiots.

If Ginobili is better than Dwyane Wade, the Spurs would have been 2010 NBA champions.

:toast

[Ace]

I take Dwyane Wade because he is better. How does anyone quantify that Manu Ginobili is better than Dwyane Wade? Wade has a higher PER, more all-NBA selections, all-NBA defenisve team selections. He is better than Ginobili when it comes to dominating at almost every aspect of the game. Man In Black has been embarrassing himself throughly in this thread and making Spurs fans look like idiots.

If Ginobili is better than Dwyane Wade, the Spurs would have been 2010 NBA champions.
I don't know what he is trying to accomplish. I've posted stats backing my claim gave reasons and yet he continues to come back with utterly retard arguments.

[ALVAREZ6]

I don't know what he is trying to accomplish. I've posted stats backing my claim gave reasons and yet he continues to come back with utterly retard arguments.

Maybe you're getting butthurt and regulated by a troll...just a thought

[Chieflion]

I also don't get how difficult it is to admit that Manu Ginobili is past his prime. He is one of my favorite players but I know he wasn't the same as he was a few seasons ago. He is still an extremely good player and there is no shame in admitting that he is not as good as one of the top 3 players in the NBA.

[Ace]

Maybe you're getting butthurt and regulated by a troll...just a thought

Butthurt? How many times has he called me "Wace" :lol
Regulation? Back peddle much?

[Man In Black]

I take Dwyane Wade because he is better. How does anyone quantify that Manu Ginobili is better than Dwyane Wade? Wade has a higher PER, more all-NBA selections, all-NBA defenisve team selections. He is better than Ginobili when it comes to dominating at almost every aspect of the game. Man In Black has been embarrassing himself throughly in this thread and making Spurs fans look like idiots.

If Ginobili is better than Dwyane Wade, the Spurs would have been 2010 NBA champions.

Cheiflion...I disagree. It's a relevant topic, you have to stretch a little to challenge your intellect. Apparently, a great many of you are drinking Major media Kool-Aid. It ain't nothing new. I grew up in a time where using your brain instead of over-reliance on a search engine meant something.
When people use terms like Bukake, unless they've lived in that country, then we pretty much know what they're using their search engine for. I quantify it like this. Ginobili is very much a big part of why he has 3 Rings to Wade's 1. Hell, if you think about it, he's part of the reason Wade has 1.

[Ace]

Ginobili is very much a big part of why he has 3 Rings to Wade's 1. Hell, if you think about it, he's part of the reason Wade has 1.
Yeah having one of the greatest PFs to play the game of basketball, doesn't mean much. Ginobili played a big part but the reason for his rings has more to do with the great Tim Duncan. Stop trying to discredit him just to make a point. Now that Wade has the same help we'll see how many rings he ends up with.

[Chieflion]

Cheiflion...I disagree. It's a relevant topic, you have to stretch a little to challenge your intellect. Apparently, a great many of you are drinking Major media Kool-Aid. It ain't nothing new. I grew up in a time where using your brain instead of over-reliance on a search engine meant something.
When people use terms like Bukake, unless they've lived in that country, then we pretty much know what they're using their search engine for. I quantify it like this. Ginobili is very much a big part of why he has 3 Rings to Wade's 1. Hell, if you think about it, he's part of the reason Wade has 1.

Ginobili has never been the number 1 player on the Spurs team. Dwyane Wade was the reason why the Miami Heat franchise has an NBA championship banner. Ginobili fouling Dirk is another matter altogether. He carried them like no other. In the 2009 and 2010 season, would a prime Ginobili be able to carry this team to the playoffs? A prime Dwyane Wade was able to lead the league in scoring in 2009 against the likes of Kobe Bryant and LeBron James while being dominant on defense as a SG, playing insanely good help defense and blocking shots like a center.

Although Ginobili has 3 championships, one of them was as a role player strictly off the bench backing up the likes of a young Stephen Jackson. He played a huge role in 2005 but wasn't number 1. In 2007, he was a sidekick to Tim Duncan, along with Tony Parker. His 3 championships do not equal in value as opposed to the main man in Dwyane Wade, who arguably had the greatest finals performance in a series in 1993, when Jordan destroyed the Suns.

There was no way, not even in Ginobili's prime, can he carry a depleted Miami Heat roster to 45-47 wins and get to the playoffs in a harsh 82 game season, unless a miracle occurred.

Mario Chalmers
Manu Ginobili
Quentin Richardson
Udonis Haslem
Jermaine O'Neal

6th man: Michael Beasley

Are you telling me this squad gets to the playoffs, much less the 5th or 6th seed? Dwyane Wade managed to do it. Ginobili had the luxury of playing with a deep Spurs team where he enjoed team success for the whole of his career while Dwyane Wade only had 2 glorious seasons of having deep playoff runs due to the lack of help. He also has plenty more individual accolades as opposed to Ginobili, who last I checked, only had one 3rd all-NBA selection.

Is it so shameful to admit Dwyane Wade has had a much more superior NBA career than Manu Ginobili? When it comes to individual accolades and he also has his fair share of team accolades, Dwyane Wade has been the superior player.

No reasonable fan would need to drink major kool-aid to believe Dwyane Wade, who has dominated the league, is a much more superior but still extremely good player in Manu Ginobili. Disagreeing with the norm with reason is one thing, disagreeing just because everyone believes it out of pure homerism is another.

Again, if Manu Ginobili was anywhere near Dwyane Wade in any of his seasons, the Spurs would have had more than 4 NBA championships.

[Man In Black]

Yeah having one of the greatest PFs to play the game of basketball, doesn't mean much. Ginobili played a big part but the reason for his rings has more to do with the great Tim Duncan. Stop trying to discredit him just to make a point. Now that Wade has the same help we'll see how many rings he ends up with.

For the 05 Championship, There are a few fan bases and media personalities that feel Ginobili deserved, at the very least, a Co-MVP for his play against Detroit.

See, this is where your argument fails for you. You say Wade's stats are all-powerful, because he didn't have any real help outside of the 1 championship year, but then at the same time, you devalue Ginobili for having Tim Duncan next to him.

So, which is it? Is Wade awesome for accumulating those eye-popping stats with scrub teammates, or is Ginobili awesome for lesser stats attained because he plays with Tim Duncan & Tony Parker?

[The Truth #6]

Obviously Manu isn't as durable so Wade is a better choice to build around for an NBA season that is ridiculously too long.

In crunch time with the game on the line (assuming Manu is healthy), I'd easily prefer Manu to just about anyone in the league.

[Ace]

For the 05 Championship, There are a few fan bases and media personalities that feel Ginobili deserved, at the very least, a Co-MVP for his play against Detroit.

See, this is where your argument fails for you. You say Wade's stats are all-powerful, because he didn't have any real help outside of the 1 championship year, but then at the same time, you devalue Ginobili for having Tim Duncan next to him.

So, which is it? Is Wade awesome for accumulating those eye-popping stats with scrub teammates, or is Ginobili awesome for lesser stats attained because he plays with Tim Duncan & Tony Parker?
Wade as number option has dominated. Enough said.

[ElNono]

There was no way, not even in Ginobili's prime, can he carry a depleted Miami Heat roster to 45-47 wins and get to the playoffs in a harsh 82 game season, unless a miracle occurred.

I agree with pretty much all of your post except that quoted part. Manu in his prime was hard to handle (much like Wade). Also, making the playoffs in the East was also not that hard (the 8th seed had a .500 record, 41 wins) when compared with the West (Spurs and Thunder tied the 8th spot and needed 50 wins to make it).

I think Manu actually would have benefited a lot from coming to the NBA earlier in his career, when he was even more athletic. But his NBA career is what it is.

Ultimately, that's part of the problem of trying to compare orange to apples. I personally think Wade is incredibly talented and athletically gifted. You only have a handful of players like that in the entire league. I think Manu has the higher basketball IQ and it's simply the better team player.

It's also silly to compare them right now, because Manu is certainly on the decline, while Wade is still in his prime.

Don't get me wrong. They're both phenomenal players. They're both going to look back at their careers when all is said and done and they'll be certainly pleased with what they've achieved. Which, really, makes this whole comparison really retarded.

[Man In Black]

Wade as number option has dominated. Enough said.
If by dominated you mean won more games and titles, then you're woefully mistaken.

[ALVAREZ6]

I also don't get how difficult it is to admit that Manu Ginobili is past his prime. He is one of my favorite players but I know he wasn't the same as he was a few seasons ago. He is still an extremely good player and there is no shame in admitting that he is not as good as one of the top 3 players in the NBA.

I agree completely with the logic of being able to admit it, but I would agree with all of the above if you'd said athletic prime, because in terms of his all around game, I think he's just as good as he ever was. Other than the first few games of the season, Manu had a great year.

[ALVAREZ6]

Butthurt? How many times has he called me "Wace" :lol
Regulation? Back peddle much?

lol you have to admit all the "wace" calling has been pretty funny, it makes me giggle every time solely for how stupid it is, but it is funny nonetheless haha

[Man In Black]

Ginobili has never been the number 1 player on the Spurs team. Dwyane Wade was the reason why the Miami Heat franchise has an NBA championship banner. Ginobili fouling Dirk is another matter altogether. He carried them like no other. In the 2009 and 2010 season, would a prime Ginobili be able to carry this team to the playoffs? A prime Dwyane Wade was able to lead the league in scoring in 2009 against the likes of Kobe Bryant and LeBron James while being dominant on defense as a SG, playing insanely good help defense and blocking shots like a center.

Although Ginobili has 3 championships, one of them was as a role player strictly off the bench backing up the likes of a young Stephen Jackson. He played a huge role in 2005 but wasn't number 1. In 2007, he was a sidekick to Tim Duncan, along with Tony Parker. His 3 championships do not equal in value as opposed to the main man in Dwyane Wade, who arguably had the greatest finals performance in a series in 1993, when Jordan destroyed the Suns.

There was no way, not even in Ginobili's prime, can he carry a depleted Miami Heat roster to 45-47 wins and get to the playoffs in a harsh 82 game season, unless a miracle occurred.

Mario Chalmers
Manu Ginobili
Quentin Richardson
Udonis Haslem
Jermaine O'Neal

6th man: Michael Beasley

Are you telling me this squad gets to the playoffs, much less the 5th or 6th seed? Dwyane Wade managed to do it. Ginobili had the luxury of playing with a deep Spurs team where he enjoed team success for the whole of his career while Dwyane Wade only had 2 glorious seasons of having deep playoff runs due to the lack of help. He also has plenty more individual accolades as opposed to Ginobili, who last I checked, only had one 3rd all-NBA selection.

Is it so shameful to admit Dwyane Wade has had a much more superior NBA career than Manu Ginobili? When it comes to individual accolades and he also has his fair share of team accolades, Dwyane Wade has been the superior player.

No reasonable fan would need to drink major kool-aid to believe Dwyane Wade, who has dominated the league, is a much more superior but still extremely good player in Manu Ginobili. Disagreeing with the norm with reason is one thing, disagreeing just because everyone believes it out of pure homerism is another.

Again, if Manu Ginobili was anywhere near Dwyane Wade in any of his seasons, the Spurs would have had more than 4 NBA championships.

That was a well thought-out post. I ALMOST agree. Going in, Manu knew he would never get the chance to be "The Man." He knew that. And as an ultimate team player, he's okay with that. But before he became a Spur, he was always the Man. And doing so resulted in Italian League and Euroleague Championships, plus the National Team Play which resulted as the 1st team to beat a US team full of NBA Players in 02 and 2nd place in the World's (out with a grade 3 Ankle Sprain for the Final, thanks Dirk) and of course, the 04 Gold Medal.
So it's not saying that he couldn't do it, it's just more that he wasn't given the opp going in. But I'm cool with that, because Tim and San Antonio got 3 more titles.

Today, Wade is better, I'm not saying dominatingly, but youth helps him out a lot. It's like that stat, youngest ever to 10000 points. It doesn't mean shit really. The stat they should keep that are more relevant would be: Least amount of games to 10000 points or rebounds or assists. Then you'd know who was the most efficient.

I'll end the madness with the following:

Read Yahoo Sports NBA Preview Magazine and in it, you'll see the following:
All-Underrated Team
SG Manu Ginobili
Manu continues to get the short shrift, despite his enduring popularity, because he plays so few minutes per game. But when you adjust for numbers and pace? He's a small step behind Kobe Bryant. If not even with him.


But, if Wade and Ginobili were the same age, and had their same skills, I'd choose Ginobili.

[ALVAREZ6]

That was a well thought-out post. I ALMOST agree. Going in, Manu knew he would never get the chance to be "The Man." He knew that. And as an ultimate team player, he's okay with that. But before he became a Spur, he was always the Man. And doing so resulted in Italian League and Euroleague Championships, plus the National Team Play which resulted as the 1st team to beat a US team full of NBA Players in 02 and 2nd place in the World's (out with a grade 3 Ankle Sprain for the Final, thanks Dirk) and of course, the 04 Gold Medal.
So it's not saying that he couldn't do it, it's just more that he wasn't given the opp going in. But I'm cool with that, because Tim and San Antonio got 3 more titles.

Today, Wade is better, I'm not saying dominatingly, but youth helps him out a lot. It's like that stat, youngest ever to 10000 points. It doesn't mean shit really. The stat they should keep that are more relevant would be: Least amount of games to 10000 points or rebounds or assists. Then you'd know who was the most efficient.

I'll end the madness with the following:

Read Yahoo Sports NBA Preview Magazine and in it, you'll see the following:
All-Underrated Team
SG Manu Ginobili
Manu continues to get the short shrift, despite his enduring popularity, because he plays so few minutes per game. But when you adjust for numbers and pace? He's a small step behind Kobe Bryant. If not even with him.


But, if Wade and Ginobili were the same age, and had their same skills, I'd choose Ginobili.

Good post. But the fact is Manu can't play those many minute per game, an entire NBA season, while maintaining that efficiency. And as someone has already stated in this thread, if Manu were in the league earlier, he would have benefited a lot as his game would have developed quicker as we all know he's a smart dude. If that were the case, his legacy could have been greater.

But that really isn't worth getting much into. About Manu being the man in Europe, again, it was europe, not the NBA, and the international success he's captained has been very impressive, but those are short tournaments.

One thing I believe though, there is no better value per dollar spent on a player in the NBA than Manu. For all of the things he contributes to a team at such an efficient rate...let's just say the Return on Investment is very, very high. Pretty much a complete opposite of Rashard Lewis, who had something like double his contract size, and all he does is stand beyond the arc and chuck threes.

Last season when it was uncertain where Manu was going to end up (before he turned on God-mode), it was weird/sad to think of Manu playing on another team, but at the same time, I was interested in seeing how the market was going to respond because teams would have been all over him.

[Sean Cagney]

Manu will shock some this year again at times, he will come on late and push us towards our run. Manu is the best I have seen at doing unpredictable things and the most exciting I have seen in years! I LOVE HIM!

[temujin]

Wade is a great player, but just another All Star in the history of the NBA.
He was given his title along with zillions FTs, because there was Mark Cuban's Mavs in front of him.

The 09-10 Heat actually played embarassing basketball and I actually prohibited my kids to watch their games. One of the reasons was Wade obsession with having the ball all the time.

You just can't compare Wade to Ginobili.
He's Manu Ginobili (Pop dixit).
He got me back on professional basketball.

[Ace]

Today, Wade is better.

Was that so hard? I'm not gonna get into the euro thing because that would only result in the Greek Guy coming in here. We all already know where they stand in comparison to the NBA.

[Man In Black]

It's a bullshit argument. Wade's got 1, Manu's got 3. If either of them go down, then neither team has chance to win anything. I said it, but again, if these guys were the same exact age, it's Manu by a mile.

[emanueldavidginobili]

hes 33 hes past his prime as is most people at that age but to say he will just be a role player is comical. he averaged like 24 points in a span of like 2 months last year and was probably the best player in the league at that time. he willl still be a force to be reckond with

[Manufan909]

Everyone here has to realize (like whoever said what I'm about to say first, forgot who), you can't truly compare them. There are WAYYYYYYYYYY too many variables.

- Manu has played on more stacked teams than Wade ever has, so it is unfair to compare # of championships because Manu has had Tim and Tony as teammates his entire career
- It's unfair to compare stats because Wade is always the man, so he takes all the shots he wants and then some
- Wade came into the NBA earlier, so he had more time to learn the NBA game while Manu wasted time in Europe and his accomplishments there must come with a grain of salt (not counting Olympics)
- Wade is arguably given the benefit of the doubt more when it comes to refs, and Manu is arguably shafted becuase he is a Spur

I will say comparing FG% and PER do make Wade appear to be the better player, but the only way to truly end this debate would be to see an alternate universe where their career paths were swapped, and I don't see that happening before the Sun super novas and it becomes a moot point.:downspin:

I will admit that like Alvarez I'm a Manu fan, but I consider Wade superior. Not like the difference between the two is substantial.