Nate Silver: 2 Insurgents Could Hurt G.O.P. Chances for Senate Takeover

[Winehole23]

2 Insurgents Could Hurt G.O.P. Chances for Senate Takeover (http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/13/2-insurgents-could-hurt-g-o-p-chances-for-senate-takeover/)

By NATE SILVER (http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/author/nate-silver/)

Tomorrow’s primaries in New York and six other states (http://elections.nytimes.com/2010/calendar) — the last of the 2010 cycle, save for Saturday’s primary in Hawaii and a runoff in Louisiana on Oct. 2 — originally looked as though they’d have little impact on the electoral landscape. Although some of the primaries were nominally competitive – like the Republican Senate race in Maryland (http://elections.nytimes.com/2010/senate/maryland), where a suite of 11 candidates will be on the ballot — they were typically not so in places where the nominee stood a strong chance of winning the general election.


Two races, however, have changed that equation. And depending on how they are resolved, Republican chances of taking over the Senate (http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/07/republicans-have-one-in-four-chance-to-claim-senate-majority-model-shows) could be enhanced or significantly diminished.


The first race in Delaware (http://elections.nytimes.com/2010/senate/delaware), where Christine O’Donnell, a political activist and commentator, is running against Michael N. Castle, who has held elected office in Delaware for 30 years as its governor, lieutenant governor and lone United States representative. The contest originally appeared to be a mismatch. Republican strategists were thrilled to have a well-known and manifestly electable candidate like Mr. Castle, who announced his interest in running for the Senate last October. Ms. O’Donnell, meanwhile, was far from a fresh face, having been the Republican nominee for Senate in 2008, when she was badly defeated by Joseph R. Biden Jr., now, of course, the vice president. Ms. O’Donnell was also on the ballot for the Republican Senate primary in 2006, finishing in third place with barely more than 2,500 votes.


But then a strange thing happened. Joe Miller, who had the backing of Sarah Palin and the Tea Party Express, upended the incumbent Lisa Murkowski in the Republican Senate primary in Alaska. Although the outcome arguably should not have been such a surprise – a dearth of polling concealed whatever momentum Mr. Miller might have been gaining – it emboldened Tea Party activists and some other conservatives, who were reminded that in this topsy-turvy electoral cycle, few incumbents and establishment politicians are safe. Mr. Castle — a moderate who is unambiguously a member of the establishment – was next on their target list. And so Ms. O’Donnell, who already had the support of the Tea Party, last week received endorsements from Republican thought-leaders like Ms. Palin, the National Rifle Association and Senator James DeMint of South Carolina.


In contrast to Alaska, however, where Mr. Miller is the favorite (http://elections.nytimes.com/2010/forecasts/senate/alaska) to be elected unless Ms. Murkowski finds her way onto the ballot as a Libertarian or write-in candidate, Delaware is a blue state, and the electoral prospects of Mr. Castle and Ms. O’Donnell there are wildly divergent. Whereas Mr. Castle is nearly a 95 percent favorite against the Democratic nominee, Chris Coons, according to last week’s FiveThirtyEight forecasting model (http://elections.nytimes.com/2010/forecasts/senate/delaware), Ms. O’Donnell would have just a 17 percent chance of winning a race against Mr. Coons.


A parallel version of this chain of events exists in New Hampshire (http://elections.nytimes.com/2010/senate/new-hampshire), where Kelly Ayotte, the state’s attorney general, was expected to be the Republican standard-bearer in the Senate race there. Although Ms. Ayotte’s matchup against the Democratic nominee, Representative Paul W. Hodes, remains competitive, she has led in every poll of the race for more than a year, and is pegged as better than an 85 percent favorite (http://elections.nytimes.com/2010/forecasts/senate/new-hampshire) by the FiveThirtyEight model. Another Republican candidate, however, the attorney Ovide Lamontagne, has trailed in most polls against Mr. Hodes and would be a modest underdog to defeat him.


http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/blogs/fivethirtyeight/denh2.png


But like Ms. O’Donnell, Mr. Lamontagne has won the backing of Mr. DeMint and several Tea Party groups (although not that of Ms. Palin, who endorsed Ms. Ayotte in July). And also like Ms. O’Donnell, he appears to have some late momentum, with one poll putting him just 7 points behind (http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_NH_912907.pdf) — an uncomfortably small margin in a late-developing primary. Primary polls thus far in 2010 have missed the final margin between the candidates by an average of about 10 points, so Mr. Lamontagne is well within striking distance.


Ms. O’Donnell, for her part, already leads in at least one poll (http://www.publicpolicypolling.com/pdf/PPP_Release_DE_912806.pdf) of Delaware. Although her lead in the survey, from Public Policy Polling, was within the poll’s margin of error, it is probably right to consider her a very slight favorite to defeat Mr. Castle based on the sharp upward trajectory in her numbers — a phenomenon that can sometimes be dispositive in primaries, where voters may jump on the bandwagon of a once-obscure candidate who suddenly appears to be viable.


The primaries in Delaware and New Hampshire have implications far beyond their borders. The forecast model that we ran last week gave Republicans a 26 percent chance of taking over the Senate — and enough states are tossups that they would be well within reach of doing so if the elections were held today. But this forecast was based on a weighted average likelihood of various candidates winning their primaries — for example, we had estimated that Ms. O’Donnell had a 25 percent chance of prevailing in Delaware, and Mr. Lamontange a 30 percent chance of doing so in New Hampshire — leaving Mr. Castle and Ms. Ayotte as the favorites.


If Ms. O’Donnell and Mr. Lamontange were both to win their primaries, however, the Republican chances of a Senate takeover would fall to just 16 percent, according to the model. Conversely, if Mr. Castle and Ms. Ayotte were to win, Republicans chances would rise to 30 percent. Thus, Republican prospects of claiming the Senate could be nearly halved if both the insurgent candidates were to prevail. They would still have a chance of doing so — but it might require them to expand the playing field further, like to West Virginia or Connecticut, where the Democratic candidates are clear favorites but not prohibitive ones — or to perform a quick makeover on a candidate like Ms. O’Donnell, who is unlikely to make a good first impression with moderate and independent voters.


Nevertheless, it should be remembered that were it not for the enthusiasm of the Tea Party — and other conservative voices outside the Republican establishment — the party might not be in the intriguing position that it finds itself in heading into November. Although Republicans enjoy many advantages in this cycle, perceptions of the party itself is not one of them.


Nor are most figures who are identified with the party establishment popular. Instead, it has been the party’s occasional success at portraying itself as consisting of ordinary, aggrieved, disempowered outsiders – a new type of ‘silent majority’ — that have freshened its message for some voters.


Meanwhile, some Tea Party-backed Senate candidates — like Marco Rubio in Florida and Rand Paul in Kentucky — have been improving their position in polls and are now favorites in their races. But while Mr. Rubio has charisma, and Mr. Paul has the advantage of running in a state in which President Obama is very unpopular, neither of those advantages would hold for someone like Ms. O’Donnell, whose nomination would represent a clear setback for Republican chances of taking over the Senate. But few voters in either party seem in much mood for measuring their risk.

[Winehole23]

O'Donnell beat Mike Castle in Delaware.

Montaigne leads Ayotte by 44.1%-36.2% with about 20% of precincts reporting.

[Winehole23]

For the first time since the 1930s, participation in Republican primaries exceeds participation in Democratic primaries, according to a report by the Center for the Study of the American Electorate (http://www1.american.edu/ia/cdem/csae/) at American University.http://fivethirtyeight.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/14/primary-voter-turnout-stays-low-but-more-so-for-democrats/?hp

[Winehole23]

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/blogs/fivethirtyeight/chart2.png

[Winehole23]

http://graphics8.nytimes.com/images/blogs/fivethirtyeight/chart1.png

[Wild Cobra]

I don't know the individual candidates, but my thought is this. What good is a GOP take over if they are RINO's rather than conservatives?

[Winehole23]

What good are Tea Party insurgents who win in the primary if they stand little chance of beating the Dem in November?

[ElNono]

I don't know the individual candidates, but my though is this. What good is a GOP take over if they are RINO's rather than conservatives?

Playing the opposition role as a majority >>> remain a minority RINO or not.

[Wild Cobra]

What good are Tea Party insurgents who win in the primary if they stand little chance of beating the Dem in November?
As I said recently, and during the 2008 election cycle. I would rather see democrats win than RINO's, and die a swift death rather than in torture as a nation.

[Winehole23]

Why are you so convinced this country will die a swift death?

[Wild Cobra]

Why are you so convinced this country will die a swift death?
Liberal legislation that demands more and more revenue for government control is killing the US job makers. Democrats just do that faster than republicans, but both do it.

[Winehole23]

Supposing arguendo that the Dems keep control of government and lead the USA to ruination, how much consolation will it really be to point the finger of blame?

[Winehole23]

Wouldn't it be altogether better to fight like hell to keep ruination from happening, if that's what you think is happening?

[Wild Cobra]

Supposing arguendo that the Dems keep control of government and lead the USA to ruination, how much consolation will it really be to point the finger of blame?
It's not the consolation for me. It's that if it happens slowly, the general public won't know why it happened. When they see more immediate cause and effects, maybe we can save this nation before the elitists in DC kill it.

[Winehole23]

With 28% reporting, the gap between Lamontaigne and Ayotte is now just under 4 points.

[Wild Cobra]

Wouldn't it be altogether better to fight like hell to keep ruination from happening, if that's what you think is happening?
Conservatives have been for decades. It hasn't worked until the liberals do really dumb things. Still, the public at large gets lulled into the seemingly nicer democrats. Rebublicans mostly have gone too liberal also. Just about all we have in DC is liberal, and liberal lite. Very few conservatives. And please don't try to call the RINOs conservative.

[ElNono]

Conservatives have been for decades. It hasn't worked until the liberals do really dumb things. Still, the public at large gets lulled into the seemingly nicer democrats. Rebublicans mostly have gone too liberal also. Just about all we have in DC is liberal, and liberal lite. Very few conservatives. And please don't try to call the RINOs conservative.

I always forget, was Reagan a conservative or a RINO?

[Wild Cobra]

With 28% reporting, the gap between Lamontaigne and Ayotte is now just under 4 points.
Don't know the reporting %, but this has the separation at 3%:

http://i181.photobucket.com/albums/x262/Wild_Cobra/deleteme.jpg

Site: AP; New Hampshire - County Vote Results (http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/files/elections/2010/by_county/NH_US_Senate_0914.html?SITE=AP&SECTION=POLITICS) from a few minutes ago.

[Wild Cobra]

At 11:45, down to 2%

Way too early to tell.

[Wild Cobra]

LOL...

12:10, down to 1%.

[Wild Cobra]

I always forget, was Reagan a conservative or a RINO?
Why would he be a RINO?

[ElNono]

Why would he be a RINO?

Because he spoke conservative rhetoric but did the exact opposite?

Increased spending, bureaucracy, debt (http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=488).

Very, very far from the alleged claim of fighting off ruination.

[Wild Cobra]

12:34 and Ayotte is now ahead...

[Wild Cobra]

Because he spoke conservative rhetoric but did the exact opposite?

Increased spending, bureaucracy, debt (http://mises.org/freemarket_detail.aspx?control=488).

Very, very far from the alleged claim of fighting off ruination.
I disagree with the tone of that article.

[ElNono]

I disagree with the tone of that article.

But not the content...

[Wild Cobra]

But not the content...
Cannot argue facts, just how they are portrayed.

[Wild Cobra]

well, at 2:18, 249 of 301 precincts reporting. Ayotte 45,038 (38%) and Lamontagne 43,573 (37%).

I predict Palin's candidate, Ayotte, but where is the recount set at?

[DarrinS]

Insurgents :lol

[boutons_deux]

Tea bagger Congresspeople, all freshman lacking any seniority, are gonna obstruct Dems and vote 100% of the time with Repug party. yawn

And they will all be corrupted and bought off with pork and corporate contributions.

Scam I read aboust last week: Congressperson starts a charity, employs his family members with high salaries, then orps contribute $Ms to the charity, all tax deductible charity contributions. Congressperson votes the way the charity contributors want him to.

[Crookshanks]

Here's the difference between liberals and conservatives - conservatives are sick of the RINOs and want candidates who will stand up and fight for conservative ideas. That is why the Tea Party candidates are doing pretty good so far. Liberals, on the other hand, continue to elect the same old corrupt, career politicians over and over and over... i.e. Charlie Rangel.

And why is it that no one ever scolds the democrats for having candidates that are too liberal? Why aren't they told to field candidates who are more moderate? This country is still a center/right country, yet conservatives are always told they need to move more to the center; yet the dems have flaming liberals like Pelosi, Waxman, Kennedy, and Boxer and no one says they need to move toward the center. Why is that?

[boutons_deux]

"why is it that no one ever scolds the democrats for having candidates that are too liberal"

straw man, bitch.

VRWC has not only "scolded" but demonized anybody who is not right of center-right. Even moderate, only-half-crazy conservatives (those who masturbate occasionally) can't get any love.

[George Gervin's Afro]

If the GOP stays out of the DE race (funding) it's hard to imagine she wins..... who knows.. this is good news for the Dems keeping the Senate.

[TeyshaBlue]

If the GOP stays out of the DE race (funding) it's hard to imagine she wins..... who knows.. this is good news for the Dems keeping the Senate.

Perhaps, but don't ignore what's really fueling this bizarre occurance......anti-incumbency. I don't think that sentiment is restricted to only one side of the political spectrum.

[boutons_deux]

Relax everybody, no matter who wins, either party, total paralysis and corruption will govern in DC.

All this disenfranchised "citizen voting" is so quaint, so masturbatory, and so ineffective.

[Crookshanks]

If the establishment GOP continues to play this dangerous game, I think they're going to regret it. These establishment republicans are the ones responsible for losing the House and Senate in 2006. They forgot how they regained power in 1994 and they contributed to the out-of-control spending. The conservative electorate doesn't want those kinds of politicians - and that's why you see people like Joe Miller and Christine O'Donnell pulling these upsets.

The GOP better wake up and smell the coffee and get behind these candidates, or they're going to experience a huge backlash and it will show in their funding.

[boutons_deux]

"republicans are the ones responsible for losing the House and Senate in 2006"

a terrorist attack permitted on American soil while Repugs did nothing

two bogus and botched Repug wars

running up a huge deficit while cutting taxes on the superweathy and subsidizing corps.

With a record like that, what's not to hate?

Why aren't the Repugs running on their accomplishments 2000-2008?

Elected tea baggers won't accomplish anything in Congress, other than voting 100% of the time with Repugs and against Dems.

[boutons_deux]

anti-masturbator O'DonKnowell is a Bible-thumping, Genesis literalist:

"CHRISTINE O’DONNELL: Well, creationism, in essence, is believing that the world began as the Bible in Genesis says, that God created the Earth in six days, six 24-hour periods. And there is just as much, if not more, evidence supporting that."

http://blogs.alternet.org/speakeasy/2010/09/15/gop-nominee-christine-odonnell-god-created-the-earth-in-six-days/?utm_source=feedblitz&utm_medium=FeedBlitzRss&utm_campaign=alternet

God trash talks: "144 hours, baby. Can y'all top that?" :lol

[Winehole23]

O'Donnell is well-nigh unelectable in Delaware.

62% voted for Obama in 2008, O'Donnell's negatives are too high and Coons will peel off a big chunk of Mike Castle supporters.

[Crookshanks]

Yes, Christine O'Donnell has a tough fight ahead of her, but it's shameful for the GOP establishment to write her off without even trying to help her. Maybe the dems will be so confident of a win that they'll get complacent and stay home on election day. It's no secret that the republicans have more energy and excitement this year.

[ChumpDumper]

What excites you most about O'Donnell?

No masturbation or the 144-hour creation?

[DMX7]

lol what evidence supports a six day creation other than where she got the idea to begin with?

[Winehole23]

Mocking O'Donnell's religious beliefs. Is that really all y'all got? Pitiful.

[Crookshanks]

Just keep laughing libs - John Cornyn faced a firestorm and has now reversed course and said The NSRC will support O'Donnell and will give her money. Also, O'Donnell has had so much money donated since last night that her website crashed!

I realize that much of the money is probably coming from out of state, but at least she'll be able to better compete with the democrat with all this money coming in.

[Winehole23]

$42,000 ain't much for a Senate campaign.

[boutons_deux]

Even if 10 tea baggers are elected, what are they going to change?

[Winehole23]

The way Karl Rove, Charles Krauthammer and Bill Kristol talk about other Republicans, for example. The GOP establishment ain't happy about this. Energizing the base is fine, until it starts electing candidates (possibly) unwilling to tow the party line.

[Crookshanks]

The party needs to wake up and see what's happening. The GOP had lost its way and become not much more than Democrat Lite. The party needs to remember what Ronald Reagan said - NO pale pastels. The conservatives are exerting their will at the ballot box, and the GOP would do well to listen!

[Winehole23]

Guess you forgot the 11th commandment, or what RR said about Republicans who vote with the party only 80% of the time.

[boutons_deux]

"unwilling to tow the party line."

what are the going to do? Vote for Dems' legislation? Abstain from voting?

[Winehole23]

I'm inclined to think tea-partyism amounts to little more than a rebranding of the GOP, but who knows?

A few might take it seriously. If they don't, the voters who put them in office could toss them out on their ears the next time around.

[ElNono]

The party needs to wake up and see what's happening. The GOP had lost its way and become not much more than Democrat Lite. The party needs to remember what Ronald Reagan said - NO pale pastels. The conservatives are exerting their will at the ballot box, and the GOP would do well to listen!

The party will try to use them and eventually take a dump against anybody that doesn't align with party interests. Ultimately, the more popular they get the more damage they do to the GOP, which ultimately only favors the democrats...

[LnGrrrR]

Here's the difference between liberals and conservatives - conservatives are sick of the RINOs and want candidates who will stand up and fight for conservative ideas. That is why the Tea Party candidates are doing pretty good so far. Liberals, on the other hand, continue to elect the same old corrupt, career politicians over and over and over... i.e. Charlie Rangel.

And why is it that no one ever scolds the democrats for having candidates that are too liberal? Why aren't they told to field candidates who are more moderate? This country is still a center/right country, yet conservatives are always told they need to move more to the center; yet the dems have flaming liberals like Pelosi, Waxman, Kennedy, and Boxer and no one says they need to move toward the center. Why is that?

Here's the prob: conservatives get told to move to the center... and then don't. Lefties move to the right even while their base yells at them not to.

But I guess that the liberals are just so radical... that's why they passed that public option healthcare bill.

[Wild Cobra]

lol what evidence supports a six day creation other than where she got the idea to begin with?
The problem is that many people believe the poor translations of the Chaldean language done in the 17th century to English.

[Wild Cobra]

Mocking O'Donnell's religious beliefs. Is that really all y'all got? Pitiful.
Well... I mock truthers...

[ChumpDumper]

Mocking O'Donnell's religious beliefs. Is that really all y'all got? Pitiful.I went to her website to see her platform.

All it said was give money.

I guess that's a platform of sorts.

[ChumpDumper]

OK, I checked out O'Donnell's bio.

I have to say lol.

[Blake]

The problem is that many people believe the poor translations of the Chaldean language done in the 17th century to English.

huh? Are you referring to the King James version as being a poor translation?

[LnGrrrR]

Mocking O'Donnell's religious beliefs. Is that really all y'all got? Pitiful.

Hey, it doesn't say anywhere that mocking religious beliefs is inherently poor taste. After all, it's considered perfectly fine taste to mock the religious beliefs of neo-nazis.

[ElNono]

LOL... I was reading this lady was on the 'voting for Obama is Anti-American' bandwagon back in '08... I wonder if she's a birther like Crookskanks?

[Wild Cobra]

huh? Are you referring to the King James version as being a poor translation?

Absolutely, and translations following it only modernize the language but keep the false wording.

I would say trying to discount a politician for believing poorly translated words is worse than discounting a politician for believing in AGW. At least ones views on religion cannot have the same impact in law as the views of one who believes false science.

[Wild Cobra]

Well...

95.7% of the vote in, Ayotte has 38.2% and Lamontagne has 37.1%. Think a recount will be asked for?

[SnakeBoy]

I predict Palin's candidate, Ayotte,

Good call. Sweet baby is on a roll.

[ChumpDumper]

Sweet babyDisturbing.

[Winehole23]

OK, I checked out O'Donnell's bio.

I have to say lol.She's been on TV a lot. That's one thing she's pretty good at. Semi-frequent guest on Maher's show time was, I've heard.

What's his take on her?

[Winehole23]

@SnakeBoy:


That's ok. Baby says let it slide.

[Blake]

Absolutely, and translations following it only modernize the language but keep the false wording.

so what is the correct translation and why hasn't God gotten it out to the masses which would include the ignorant politicians?



At least ones views on religion cannot have the same impact in law as the views of one who believes false science.

Eh. Abortion and gay rights activists will probably disagree with you.

[Wild Cobra]

so what is the correct translation and why hasn't God gotten it out to the masses which would include the ignorant politicians?
This is a different topics, so this will be my only post here on the matter. Want more, start a new thread.

In the creation story, the Chaldean word used that was translated to "create(d)" actually means formed. In other words, changed what was already there. The word translated to "day," is a word used in various ways. It comes from a root meaning of "warm." For all we know, and it would make scientific sense to me, each "day" would be an interglacial period of time on earth. One way it is used is as a "cycle." It is used also as a period of a day as we think of it, but that is not it's only usage. It does not need to be a specific time frame. When we get to the part of creating man, Adam is from a word that means mankind (plural) and Eve means life-bringer. When we get to the story of Adam, Eve, Cain, and Able... the words for Adam and Eve are now not the same Chaldean word, and are specific names. The word used for Heaven has various meanings, and probably meant the simplest form... Sky.

So many things in the translation that are probably wrong. With our understanding of science, and usage of words. When we eliminate some forms of the words that are scientifically wrong, other ancient usages are still there that do not defy our understanding of science.

Eh. Abortion and gay rights activists will probably disagree with you.
Thing is, morality of life doesn't have to come from the Bible. I simply fail to comprehend how so many people can be so cavalier about abortion. It's simple an abomination. I wonder if such people have any good in them at all.

One does not have to be Christian to believe abortion is murder.

[SnakeBoy]

That's ok. Baby says let it slide.

:lol

Good memory.

[Marcus Bryant]

Scott Brown will be outed as "RINO" soon enough, and will lose in the next primary election for his seat to a 'true conservative' who will go on to win 25% of the general election vote in Mass. Ditto for Christie in NJ.

One would think that a certain pragmatism would prevail in this election for some on the right as it relates to winning elections in center-left states.

[SnakeBoy]

She's been on TV a lot. That's one thing she's pretty good at.

I haven't seen her interviews but I saw a liberal leaning guest (forgot his name) on Morning Joe make the case that Dems shouldn't write her off for that very reason.

[LnGrrrR]

Thing is, morality of life doesn't have to come from the Bible. I simply fail to comprehend how so many people can be so cavalier about abortion. It's simple an abomination. I wonder if such people have any good in them at all.

One does not have to be Christian to believe abortion is murder.

I know this is off-topic for the off-topic post, but I think my views on abortion have shifted slightly over time. I believe that abortion after the first trimester is immoral, except for "life of the mother at risk" complications. I'm still not sure about the first trimester.

I'm LEGALLY for disallowing abortions after the first trimster, but I don't think I would ever be for outlawing abortion completely. I think that would just drive the abortion business undergrounds, with its own set of difficulties and unintended consequences.

[Marcus Bryant]

Mocking O'Donnell's religious beliefs. Is that really all y'all got? Pitiful.

One would think a majority would object to the state promoting jacking off to teenagers as a waste of public funds. Oh well, this matter excites prurient interest and deflects attention from the matter of the federal government's fiscal cluster. Please, continue highlighting the issues that really matter.

[Blake]

This is a different topics, so this will be my only post here on the matter. Want more, start a new thread.

In the creation story, the Chaldean word used that was translated to "create(d)" actually means formed. In other words, changed what was already there. The word translated to "day," is a word used in various ways. It comes from a root meaning of "warm." For all we know, and it would make scientific sense to me, each "day" would be an interglacial period of time on earth. One way it is used is as a "cycle." It is used also as a period of a day as we think of it, but that is not it's only usage. It does not need to be a specific time frame. When we get to the part of creating man, Adam is from a word that means mankind (plural) and Eve means life-bringer. When we get to the story of Adam, Eve, Cain, and Able... the words for Adam and Eve are now not the same Chaldean word, and are specific names. The word used for Heaven has various meanings, and probably meant the simplest form... Sky.

So many things in the translation that are probably wrong. With our understanding of science, and usage of words. When we eliminate some forms of the words that are scientifically wrong, other ancient usages are still there that do not defy our understanding of science.

I didn't realize Moses was Chaldean (he's not), but even so, your one post failed to answer my question(s).

Unfortunate.


Thing is, morality of life doesn't have to come from the Bible. I simply fail to comprehend how so many people can be so cavalier about abortion. It's simple an abomination. I wonder if such people have any good in them at all.

One does not have to be Christian to believe abortion is murder.

That is not the point of my answer to your original statement regarding religion and law.

Even so, what is morally wrong about gay marriage?

[boutons_deux]

"deflects attention from the matter of the federal government's fiscal cluster"

your attention is deflected from the matter of the real government problem: it's owned by the corps, it's a proxy for the corps, the same corps that finance the VRWC to deflect their culpability onto the govt.

[boutons_deux]

"deflects attention from the matter of the federal government's fiscal cluster"

your attention is deflected from the matter of the real government problem: it's owned by the corps, it's a proxy for the corps, the same corps that finance the VRWC to deflect their culpability onto the govt.

[Marcus Bryant]

Don't forget the NWO.

[Marcus Bryant]

And the CIA. Lest we forget the Federal Reserve, and fluoride.

[Winehole23]

Please, continue highlighting the issues that really matter.In this forum it's pretty hard to put one's finger on anything that does.

[LnGrrrR]

In this forum it's pretty hard to put one's finger on anything that does.

Usually, when something important is highlighted, it's swiftly shuttled to the second page.

[Winehole23]

One would think that a certain pragmatism would prevail in this election for some on the right as it relates to winning elections in center-left states.Better to lose the Senate and fail to retake the House, than to elect any GOP moderates in moderate/liberal states.

[Marcus Bryant]

In this forum it's pretty hard to put one's finger on anything that does.

The "issues" discussed here seem to be the ones given importance by the popular 'political entertainment media.'

[SnakeBoy]

Better to lose the Senate and fail to retake the House, than to elect any GOP moderates in moderate/liberal states.

Odds are they'll take the house regardless but politically yes it will be better not to share the blame for te next two years. The RNC can have the slogan Super Majorities 2012.

[Marcus Bryant]

Odds are they'll take the house regardless but politically yes it will be better not to share the blame for te next two years. The RNC can have the slogan Super Majorities 2012.

Wait a second, would it not be preferable to gain as much power in the legislative branch asap to stop the trek down the ruinous path on which the 'Marxist Moslem' in the White House has taken this country or whatever?

[Winehole23]

Seems to me it'd be better to put the brakes on Obama. Divided government would drive him, and the Dems, more to the center.

It's disheartening to hear conservatives spout their own immiseration thesis. Worse to get better seldom works out as well in practice.

[Marcus Bryant]

Seems to me it'd be better to put the brakes on Obama. Divided government would drive him, and the Dems, more to the center.

It's disheartening to hear conservatives spout their own immiseration thesis. Worse to get better seldom works out as well in practice.


Enforcing a foolish consistency seems to be the objective of some.

[SnakeBoy]

Seems to me it'd be better to put the brakes on Obama.

Seems to me they don't need control to put the brakes on him. In fact they're doing it pretty well right now. This morning (on msnbc) the buzz is that dems are running away from letting the "tax cuts for the rich" expire and Obama will be cutting a deal to extend all the Bush tax cuts for 1-2 years.

[Marcus Bryant]

Seems to me they don't need control to put the brakes on him. In fact they're doing it pretty well right now. This morning (on msnbc) the buzz is that dems are running away from letting the "tax cuts for the rich" expire and Obama will be cutting a deal to extend all the Bush tax cuts for 1-2 years.

Popular conservatism is tax cuts, exclusively, at this point.

[SnakeBoy]

Popular conservatism is tax cuts, exclusively, at this point.

If what they said on msnbc is true, it's about to become the motto of popular liberalism too. Or will the left stand up and protest the Obama tax cuts for the rich.

[LnGrrrR]

Again, Dems cave like pansies.

[Winehole23]

"Strategic cringing"

[Winehole23]

If what they said on msnbc is true, it's about to become the motto of popular liberalism too. Or will the left stand up and protest the Obama tax cuts for the rich?Probably not. Instead they'll probably extend them for two (or three) years. Kick the can.