Buck Harvey: Last days of rest for Manu

[Solid D]

Last days of rest for Manu
Buck Harvey
Published: Yesterday
The Spurs have had Manu Ginobili on a basketball diet. He's been held to two informal scrimmages a week in the practice facility.

And if they didn't do this? Would he play six days a week?

"Maybe seven," said one in the organization.

But next year, at this time, they won't have this kind of control. There will likely be a lockout, and then Manu Ginobili will return to his Argentine team.

That's why a report this week surprises no one with the Spurs.

According to a South American publication, La Republica, the president of the Argentine Confederation confirmed Ginobili will re-join the national team next August. Luis Scola will celebrate, and other countries in the tournament will not.

There was a time when this would have made the veins in Gregg Popovich's neck bulge. Now the Spurs shrug and accept the news.

The Spurs would still prefer Ginobili didn't participate in international competition. He's under contract until 2013, after all.

But after this season they know they won't be in position to persuade or even plead. Besides, they did well to keep Ginobili home this summer, and this probably took some work.

No one within the organization has confirmed this, but last spring's back-and-forth contract negotiations surely included the international issue. In return for the contract, couldn't Ginobili rest this summer?

Ginobili, the new father, had other reasons to stay home. But the Spurs probably sold him on the importance of this season, and Tony Parker surely heard the same message. With Tim Duncan at this stage in his career, the team could not risk another summer injury.

But after this season? If the Spurs couldn't talk Ginobili out of China, when he had an existing injury, they have no chance next summer in a lockout.

Given that, Ginobili should enjoy these final days of rest. So should the Spurs. This time next year, they can't stop him from playing eight days a week..

[Blackjack]

Eiiiggghhht daaayyysss a week

I luhhhh-uh-luh-uh-love you


Intellectual property. :)

[Muser]

Be sweet if Manu played in the 2012 Olympics.

[Dex]

With the trend of the NBA going more international, this is going to become more of a general rule than an exception with players. Both the NBA and FIBA seem to be making amends to assimilate the two games. On Oct. 1, FIBA will begin using the square NBA-style lane and will also extend its three-point arc nearer to the NBA standard. For the past few years now, NBA teams have been making regular exhibition appearances in Europe and China. All of this is means to an end.

More and more teams are sporting foreign players who, summer after summer, will face decisions about their patriotism vs. their loyalty. On top of that, 12-15 other U.S. players will also have their teams biting their nails at home, but they don't seem to catch the same flack for supporting our country as other players get for supporting theirs.

I expect both Manu and Tony to play in 2012 (if they qualify).

[Mel_13]

Many NBA fans get angry and upset when international players participate in these summer FIBA tourneys. That anger is almost aleays directed at the players when it should be directed at David Stern and NBA team owners.

Going back to the original Dream Team, Stern saw the participation of the NBA's biggest stars in FIBA events as an important part of his plan to globalize the NBA brand. There have been several iterations of the CBA since 1992 and no effort to limit the number of FIBA events that an NBA player can play in. Quite the opposite. The current CBA guarantees the rights of players to participate.

The NBA, as a corporate entity, has no interest in keeping their players out of these events. The fact that an injury could adversely impact a few franchises is viewed as a cost of doing business. An owner like Cuban will occasionally make a little noise on the subject, but to no effect. The CBA will be renegotiated again in 2011. The owners will try to limit maximum salaries and contract lengths. History and money says that they'll leave the clauses on participation in FIBA events unchanged.

From this weeks news:

Spanish bank BBVA signs $100 million marketing deal with NBA

http://probasketballtalk.nbcsports.com/2010/09/spanish-bank-bbva-signs-100-million-marketing-deal-with-nba.php

[DesignatedT]

If this article was about tony this thread would have taken a much different path.

[temujin]

"As I expressed before, my two previous experiences on the Olympics where the best thing that ever happened to me as an athlete, including the NBA rings, European championships and everything I lived on my almost 15 years of career, and I have no doubts in my head that I would like to live that again."

It's all Stern's fault.

Stern's and Joey Crawford's.

[Mel_13]

"As I expressed before, my two previous experiences on the Olympics where the best thing that ever happened to me as an athlete, including the NBA rings, European championships and everything I lived on my almost 15 years of career, and I have no doubts in my head that I would like to live that again."

It's all Stern's fault.



Manu would not be able to fulfill these ambitions, while simultaneously pursuing an NBA career, if the CBA did not protect his right to do so.

[alchemist]

If this article was about tony this thread would have taken a much different path.
By now I think most (level headed) Spur fans can't take anymore Int. talk, players will go or they won't.

[temujin]

BBVA has acquired banks in the US over the last 2 years.
They came really cheap.

BBVA pays $100 millions to boost its brand name through the NBA.

Makes sense.

What it DOES NOT make sense is that BBVA pays $100 millions to boost its brand in Spain.

For that, BBVA correctly sponsors the first division soccer tournement in Spain (Liga) for a small fraction of $100 Millions.

That makes sense.

So the $100 millions received by the NBA has MOSTLY to do with the american market, NOT the spanish market.

Hence it has little to do with the "internationalization of the NBA" and even less the decision to let players play in FIBA tournements.

I definitely underestimated this chap.
I should probably follow more closely his logic-defying posts.
They are a case study.

[Mel_13]

They are a case study.

You take a shot at the portion of my post regarding Stern and the CBA. I counter that and you change the subject. Case study indeed.

[DesignatedT]

By now I think most (level headed) Spur fans can't take anymore Int. talk, players will go or they won't.

sounds about right.

[temujin]

Many NBA fans get angry and upset when international players participate in these summer FIBA tourneys. That anger is almost aleays directed at the players when it should be directed at David Stern and NBA team owners.



Whether they like or not, international players will spend a few years in the US,
get vastly overpayed,
winning nothing,
and actually not caring much about winning anything,
bring all that money home,
where they will spend the rest of their lives, surrounded by people that will only remember what they did for their NT.

Maybe, just maybe, a lot of angry fans you mentioned would agree with this post?

[Mel_13]

Whether they like or not, international players will spend a few years in the US,
get vastly overpayed,
winning nothing,
and actually not caring much about winning anything,
bring all that money home,
where they will spend the rest of their lives, surrounded by people that will only remember what they did for their NT.

Maybe, just maybe, a lot of angry fans you mentioned would agree with this post?

:lmao

Continued self-ownage.

[Solid D]

Many NBA fans get angry and upset when international players participate in these summer FIBA tourneys. That anger is almost aleays directed at the players when it should be directed at David Stern and NBA team owners.

Going back to the original Dream Team, Stern saw the participation of the NBA's biggest stars in FIBA events as an important part of his plan to globalize the NBA brand. There have been several iterations of the CBA since 1992 and no effort to limit the number of FIBA events that an NBA player can play in. Quite the opposite. The current CBA guarantees the rights of players to participate.

The NBA, as a corporate entity, has no interest in keeping their players out of these events. The fact that an injury could adversely impact a few franchises is viewed as a cost of doing business. An owner like Cuban will occasionally make a little noise on the subject, but to no effect. The CBA will be renegotiated again in 2011. The owners will try to limit maximum salaries and contract lengths. History and money says that they'll leave the clauses on participation in FIBA events unchanged.

Even beyond David Stern and the owners, thank/blame Juan Antonio Samaranch (and the IOC). Around 1986, the decision to "officially" allow paid athletes to compete in the Olympic Games opened the door.

[temujin]

You take a shot at the portion of my post regarding Stern and the CBA. I counter that and you change the subject. Case study indeed.

What about the CBA?

That part of the current CBA is perfectly understandable.
There is a LOGIC in the decision to let non american players employed by NBA teams play in FIBA.
1) It makes the product known world-wide.
2) You get good players that might not come if forbidden to play in FIBA. Hence making the product better.

So that part is there to last.

So Mr Ginobili can be quite sure that he can do whatever he wants NT-wise, even with the next CBA in place.

That's exactly why he says the word you seem to like to read.

[temujin]

Even beyond David Stern and the owners, thank/blame Juan Antonio Samaranch (and the IOC). Around 1986, the decision to "officially" allow paid athletes to compete in the Olympic Games opened the door.

This.

[Bruno]

NBA franchises bitching about NT is pure hypocrisy. When Spurs signed Ginobili or Parker, they knew that they were international players and playing for their country was important for them. You had to take the whole package or leave it.

And the NBA/FIBA system is crap because players are put in a awful position. A fair system would be that players are obliged to play for their NT and in exchange NT plays less way games.

[temujin]

Obliged????

How can you oblige someone to play?

I can imagine a game in which a few players are obliged to play....

This is nonsense.

[Bruno]

:lol

It's not like the biggest sport in the world has a rule that oblige players to play for their NT.

[Solid D]

NBA franchises bitching about NT is pure hypocrisy. When Spurs signed Ginobili or Parker, they knew that they were international players and playing for their country was important for them. You had to take the whole package or leave it.

And the NBA/FIBA system is crap because players are put in a awful position. A fair system would be that players are obliged to play for their NT and in exchange NT plays less way games.

I often muse at the professional sports scene today where $15-30M annual salaries are paid. The investments are huge and the efforts by pro sports owners to protect investments are at a high ebb. When I was a kid and young man, in order to make a decent living, pro basketball, football, baseball and hockey players were selling insurance in the off-season. Now, players are insuring their hair.

[DPG21920]

The rule should be changed so the NBA owners can put in players contracts that they can't play.

NBA players, more than any other major sport in the US (see NFL), make a ton of guaranteed money.

That way, the players can either sign the contract or not. Same with the owners. Not giving the owners the chance to negotiate when they pay that much money is bogus in my opinion. They already pay more guaranteed money to their players (even if they don't play due to injury) than any other sport.

Of course NBA teams know foreign players play for their NT's and pay them anyways. There is no choice and there is a market for those players. If you give them a choice, things would change. That is the only fair way.

The players give up nothing. The owners are getting screwed here.

[temujin]

The biggest sport in the world has a rule that obliges players to play in the NT.
Except that if the players do NOT want to play in the NT (plenty of examples, even at the last WC), they are simply not "selected" by the coach.

No coach is stupid enough to select someone that doesn't want to play.

[Mel_13]

What about the CBA?

That part of the current CBA is perfectly understandable.
There is a LOGIC in the decision to let non american players employed by NBA teams play in FIBA.
1) It makes the product known world-wide.
2) You get good players that might not come if forbidden to play in FIBA. Hence making the product better.

So that part is there to last.

So Mr Ginobili can be quite sure that he can do whatever he wants NT-wise, even with the next CBA in place.

That's exactly why he says the word you seem to like to read.

Well, now we have real agreement. Most of what you say here was explicitly stated or clearly implied in my OP. We may well disagree on the primary motivation for the inclusion of these protections in the CBA, but the points you highlight were very likely contributing factors.

It all supports the main point of my OP: fan anger at international players for participation in FIBA events is misplaced. The players have a contractual right to do so and while ownership may appear, to the fan, to be harmed by this arrangement they have never tried to change it.

[Mel_13]

The rule should be changed so the NBA owners can put in players contracts that they can't play.

NBA players, more than any other major sport in the US (see NFL), make a ton of guaranteed money.

That way, the players can either sign the contract or not. Same with the owners. Not giving the owners the chance to negotiate when they pay that much money is bogus in my opinion. They already pay more guaranteed money to their players (even if they don't play due to injury) than any other sport.

Of course NBA teams know foreign players play for their NT's and pay them anyways. There is no choice and there is a market for those players. If you give them a choice, things would change. That is the only fair way.

The players give up nothing. The owners are getting screwed here.

They have had multiple opportunities over the last two decades to place limitations on NT participation and have chosen not to do so. They will have another chance in 2011. I'll bet we see no changes.

[Brazil]

If Manu announces he is ready to leave the spurs and test FA market, spurs fans say it's normal NBA is a business after all. Now if TP announces the exact same thing, spurs fans say you TP piece of shit ! Trade his ass for Biedrins and a filler.

If Manu says I will play next summer, it's a: well this is how it works, it's important for Manu, 2 pages thread. Now TP says the same it's a 10 pages meltdown thread.


As for me, I agree with Bruno when you sign TP or Manu a contract extension you know they will play for their NT and there is nothing you can do about it. Spurs FO accepted the whole package, fans should do the same.

[DPG21920]

Just because it has not changed, does not mean that many owners did not want it.

[DPG21920]

As for me, I agree with Bruno when you sign TP or Manu a contract extension you know they will play for their NT and there is nothing you can do about it. Spurs FO accepted the whole package, fans should do the same.

The only problem I have with that is that there are no other options. They can't legally not make them play.

Of course they are going to pay them, because they are great players.

[Mel_13]

Just because it has not changed, does not mean that many owners did not want it.

Not nearly enough to push for a change.

[DPG21920]

Not nearly enough to push for a change.

Or perhaps the owners are granted other things in order not to press this issue because it helps the NBA promote their global brand.

I am not saying I really care one way or the other, but what would it hurt to allow for NBA teams to put that in contracts?

Would Manu turn down tons of money? Dirk? I doubt it and the best players could still get it in their contracts.

Or at least allow them to make their contracts non-guaranteed if they get injured for their NT. Same with USA players.

[Brazil]

The only problem I have with that is that there are no other options. They can't legally not make them play.

Of course they are going to pay them, because they are great players.

Of course there are other options, a franchise can choose to not pick int players or trade them for american players who have less chances to make the US NT.

I'm pretty sure spurs could have traded Manu instead of signing him an extension but they also know with Manu risk is higher but the reward is also much higher. It's just a business decision to make: a risky investment has a higher potential payback than a safe solution. At the end it's a managerial decision.

[Bruno]

Allowing contract's clause that allow NBA teams to forbid their players not to play for their NT has nothing to do with the new CBA. It is related to the NBA/FIBA agreement.

I don't know what is the structure of this agreement but one thing seems sure: FIBA will never signs an agreement with the NBA if this agreement allow NBA teams to forbid players to play with their NT.

You can imagine a NBA that works without an agreement with FIBA but it means that there won't have a single NBA player playing international basketball.

[Mel_13]

The only problem I have with that is that there are no other options. They can't legally not make them play.

Of course they are going to pay them, because they are great players.

I know it gets repetitive, but this is why I keep going back to the CBA.

Every five years or so, the owners and the players negotiate the terms of their relationship. Both sides are then bound by those terms. If it is important enough to ownership, they'll negotiate for limitations on NT play. So far, it hasn't.

[DPG21920]

Of course there are other options, a franchise can choose to not pick int players or trade them for american players who have less chances to make the US NT.

I'm pretty sure spurs could have traded Manu instead of signing him an extension but they also know with Manu risk is higher but the reward is also much higher. It's just a business decision to make: a risky investment has a higher potential payback than a safe solution. At the end it's a managerial decision.

Well, in the basic sense, of course there is a choice. But not signing elite talents is not realistic.

What is the problem with allowing the owners to have the option to negotiate national team play? Then both parties would have a choice.

[temujin]

Well, now we have real agreement. Most of what you say here was explicitly stated or clearly implied in my OP. We may well disagree on the primary motivation for the inclusion of these protections in the CBA, but the points you highlight were very likely contributing factors.

It all supports the main point of my OP: fan anger at international players for participation in FIBA events is misplaced. The players have a contractual right to do so and while ownership may appear, to the fan, to be harmed by this arrangement they have never tried to change it.

I am worried.

Fans anger is partially misplaced. What they perceive is a sometimes furious will to play for the NT, even the most irrelevant of the tourneys.
The reasons for that I explaned in the famous post....

Personally I would introduce a restriction allowing players to take part only in the major events, WC Euros and Americas tourneys.
To see Parker getting hurt last year on a "qualification" campaign against Finland was ridiculous.

[DPG21920]

I know it gets repetitive, but this is why I keep going back to the CBA.

Every five years or so, the owners and the players negotiate the terms of their relationship. Both sides are then bound by those terms. If it is important enough to ownership, they'll negotiate for limitations on NT play. So far, it hasn't.

Sure, I get that. It is a part of a bigger picture, not just the CBA, but the NBA & FIBA and their working relationship.

If the owner's really wanted it, they could probably get it, but obviously they don't care that much. They might be annoyed, and I really don't care. I am just speaking about the theoretical application of allowing this to be negotiable and who is winning/losing in this deal.

Even though the owners appear to be losing in this particular singular area, that means they and basketball have gained else where.

[Mel_13]

Allowing contract's clause that allow NBA teams to forbid their players not to play for their NT has nothing to do with the new CBA. It is related to the NBA/FIBA agreement.

I don't know what is the structure of this agreement but one thing seems sure: FIBA will never signs an agreement with the NBA if this agreement allow NBA teams to forbid players to play with their NT.

You can imagine a NBA that works without an agreement with FIBA but it means that there won't have a single NBA player playing international basketball.

It would be nice to be able to see the exact terms of this agreement. The provisions in the CBA relating to NT participation are easy enough to find.

At any rate, you're right. The NBA benefits from this arrangement. They're not pulling their players out of FIBA events.

[ohmwrecker]

As long as it is the same for American players. I don't see near as much grousing about American NBA players playing in international competition. There is a double standard at play. Foreign NBA players are not being treated equally by some American fans. Why are American players not being held to the same standard of criticism as foreign players?

[temujin]

I'd be curious to see the figures of the sales of Spurs items in the whole US, except SA, compared to France and Argentina. Or even Slovenia.

[DPG21920]

These rules should be for every NBA player and their NT. The reason there seems to be a double standard is because the "foreign" players seem to have suffered more injuries. There are a lot more of the foreign players playing for their NT's that play in the NBA as well.

[Mel_13]

I am worried.

Fans anger is partially misplaced. What they perceive is a sometimes furious will to play for the NT, even the most irrelevant of the tourneys.
The reasons for that I explaned in the famous post....

Personally I would introduce a restriction allowing players to take part only in the major events, WC Euros and Americas tourneys.
To see Parker getting hurt last year on a "qualification" campaign against Finland was ridiculous.

More for you to worry about. I agree completely with this sentiment as a reasonable basis for compromise among all parties involved.

[temujin]

More for you to worry about. I agree completely with this sentiment as a reasonable basis for compromise among all parties involved.

:downspin:

Then it is really time to go to bed.

[Bruno]

It would be nice to be able to see the exact terms of this agreement. The provisions in the CBA relating to NT participation are easy enough to find.

At any rate, you're right. The NBA benefits from this arrangement. They're not pulling their players out of FIBA events.

The league send a memo to NBA teams when Spurs asked Manu not to play:

http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/news/presClip/p/newsid/19079/arti.html


This is a reminder that, under the NBA's agreement with FIBA, NBA teams are required to permit their players to play in certain major national-team competitions, provided that adequate insurance is obtained.
[...]
These include the Olympics, world championships, continental championships [such as the European Championships], and relevant qualifying tournaments.
[...]
The NBA/FIBA agreement also provides that NBA teams may not take any steps that are intended to deter players from playing in such competitions

[ohmwrecker]

These rules should be for every NBA player and their NT. The reason there seems to be a double standard is because the "foreign" players seem to have suffered more injuries. There are a lot more of the foreign players playing for their NT's that play in the NBA as well.

There doesn't "seem" to be a double standard, there is a double standard. It's ethnocentrism at it's worst. Americans cannot relate to a foreign player being as committed to his NT as an American player. Nobody complained when Duncan played for Team U.S.A., or if they did, it was nowhere near as vitriolic as it is with Manu and Tony.

[Mel_13]

The league send a memo to NBA teams when Spurs asked Manu not to play:

http://www.fiba.com/pages/eng/fc/news/presClip/p/newsid/19079/arti.html

Thanks.

I'm too lazy to look it up now, but the CBA contains identical, or nearly identical, language as to which events qualify. There's also a part about health/injury which, I believe, is what allowed the Spurs to recall Tony for examinations/tests last summer and allowed Philadelphia to recall Nocioni this summer.

[Mel_13]

There doesn't "seem" to be a double standard, there is a double standard. It's ethnocentrism at it's worst. Americans cannot relate to a foreign player being as committed to his NT as an American player. Nobody complained when Duncan played for Team U.S.A., or if they did, it was nowhere near as vitriolic as it is with Manu and Tony.

There's some of that, to be sure. There are also some who oppose any NT participation as a general rule. Among Spurs fans, the opposition to Manu and Tony playing in the summers has greatly increased as they have aged and suffered injuries. Without the injuries, there would be much less noise.

[Man In Black]

Even beyond David Stern and the owners, thank/blame Juan Antonio Samaranch (and the IOC). Around 1986, the decision to "officially" allow paid athletes to compete in the Olympic Games opened the door.

Actually, the blame goes to Boris Stankovic, who is now the Secretary Emeritus. for FIBA. He was the one who started working with David Stern in setting up pre-season games between NBA teams and Europe. It was his proposition that started the vote to allow NBA Players in International competition. That vote was passed on April 7th, 1989.

[Dex]

I blame society.

[ohmwrecker]

I blame society.

What about the government . . . Oh, and Jesus!

[Leonard Curse]

HERES MY SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM :

i say if you play for your national team and you get hurt you dont get payed that year or time your out from the NBA. depending on the severity of the injury is how long you go without pay. now if the injury is done after well you deal with it regularly. people from other countries can have all the pride they want which i think is great but they cannot go out there and play like they dont have an employer thats just the way it is like it or not when you have a job you have certain responsibilities that doesnt exclude the nba period. so this will put the decesion on them and will also allow the player to show that much more pride in their country (if thats what it is) or do they really do it because theyre afraid of losing fans??? my suggestion and rule will bring truth and consequence as well as showing you love your country that much more. manu is not excluded if he gets injured and is useless for the spurs they need to have consequences its just not fair. if his national team gets him they need to pay for his living as well

[polandprzem]

Who is this Manu and who is he playing for?

[Dex]

HERES MY SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM :

i say if you play for your national team and you get hurt you dont get payed that year or time your out from the NBA. depending on the severity of the injury is how long you go without pay. now if the injury is done after well you deal with it regularly. people from other countries can have all the pride they want which i think is great but they cannot go out there and play like they dont have an employer thats just the way it is like it or not when you have a job you have certain responsibilities that doesnt exclude the nba period. so this will put the decesion on them and will also allow the player to show that much more pride in their country (if thats what it is) or do they really do it because theyre afraid of losing fans??? my suggestion and rule will bring truth and consequence as well as showing you love your country that much more. manu is not excluded if he gets injured and is useless for the spurs they need to have consequences its just not fair. if his national team gets him they need to pay for his living as well

The problem isn't isolated to the money that is being paid to the player. In fact, players must have the proper insurance to be allowed to play in summer events and international games, otherwise the team can deny it. So I'd imagine that accounts for most of the fiscal liabilities.

The problem is that if you have a main guy like a Manu Ginobili, Tony Parker, Pau Gasol, or even third wheel like Lebron James go down with an injury, how do you replace that production? Even being compensated for the player's salary, that player is still filling up cap space and a roster spot. Furthermore, there are only so many players available on a dwindling free market, and they are surely not going to fill the shoes of a star player.

The Spurs themselves were under this gun when Manu Ginobili went down to an ankle injury in 2008 in Beijing which hampered him throughout the entire subsequent season and cost him an entire playoff series. It took him until halfway through this past season to regain form, and what sort of compensation did the Spurs receive?

So then, the only logical reasoning becomes allowing the team to waive a player's contract if they get injured due to international play, but that would open up all sorts of gray areas in an otherwise minutely structured salary agreement, and is most likely prohibited by the CBA.

[ElNono]

It's all lies!!!!!111 VSpan much superior player than Manu with no rest!!!!1111

[Solid D]

Actually, the blame goes to Boris Stankovic, who is now the Secretary Emeritus. for FIBA. He was the one who started working with David Stern in setting up pre-season games between NBA teams and Europe. It was his proposition that started the vote to allow NBA Players in International competition. That vote was passed on April 7th, 1989.

Unless you are trying to make a different point, the Olympic Games are "International competition" and the 1986 IOC vote (Olympics with FIBA rules) came prior to 1989. I'm not trying to glorify a man with some questionable moments in his career, but Samaranch was greatly responsible for commercializing the Olympics and creating a television money bonanza. He brought in companies for sponsorships and he spear-headed the changes to the Olympic Charter removing the distinction between “amateur” and “professional” athletes. That paved the way for the participation of NBA and NHL players, among others.

That doesn't take away from Stankovic's influencing international players to play in the NBA and his leadership in FIBA and later with the IOC (after the 1986 vote).

[LongtimeSpursFan]

HERES MY SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM :

i say if you play for your national team and you get hurt you dont get payed that year or time your out from the NBA. depending on the severity of the injury is how long you go without pay. now if the injury is done after well you deal with it regularly. people from other countries can have all the pride they want which i think is great but they cannot go out there and play like they dont have an employer thats just the way it is like it or not when you have a job you have certain responsibilities that doesnt exclude the nba period. so this will put the decesion on them and will also allow the player to show that much more pride in their country (if thats what it is) or do they really do it because theyre afraid of losing fans??? my suggestion and rule will bring truth and consequence as well as showing you love your country that much more. manu is not excluded if he gets injured and is useless for the spurs they need to have consequences its just not fair. if his national team gets him they need to pay for his living as well

This may or may not be an excellent post but with proper punctuation it is so difficult to read. So I just skipped over it.

[Man In Black]

Unless you are trying to make a different point, the Olympic Games are "International competition" and the 1986 IOC vote (Olympics with FIBA rules) came prior to 1989. I'm not trying to glorify a man with some questionable moments in his career, but Samaranch was greatly responsible for commercializing the Olympics and creating a television money bonanza. He brought in companies for sponsorships and he spear-headed the changes to the Olympic Charter removing the distinction between “amateur” and “professional” athletes. That paved the way for the participation of NBA and NHL players, among others.

That doesn't take away from Stankovic's influencing international players to play in the NBA and his leadership in FIBA and later with the IOC (after the 1986 vote).
I'm just talking about the push for NBA players to be allowed to play in IOC competition. The other countries were always using their professionals. Hockey more so, than Basketball.

I've been alive for Olympics since before the 1968 Olympics, Watched my 1st in Sapporo, Japan and learned to love it more so when it was in Montreal for 1976. Commercialization was huge even back then. I remember my McDonald's Card that said if the US won a Long Jump, I'd get a Big Mac.
The push started before Juan but his efforts are duly noted for smooth paving.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Unlike most NBA fans I like it when NBA players participate in important FIBA events. Yes, injuries are a worry, but players get injured all the time, they could get injured practicing. Tiredness is an understandable concern, however, I have no sympathy for the NBA teams in this regard because of the ridiculous 82-game regular season, back-to-backs and stuff like that. Meaningless from a basketball point of view, money generating though.

7-10 intense games during the summer can make a lot of good for all players, much more than 7-10 early december NBA games anyway. Durant, for example, will return a better player and a better leader because of his participation in the World Cup, so will Scola, so will others. Just like winning the olympic gold has undoubtedly helped Manu grow as a player and in reflection helped the Spurs as well.

[kaji157]

HERES MY SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM :

i say if you play for your national team and you get hurt you dont get payed that year or time your out from the NBA. depending on the severity of the injury is how long you go without pay. now if the injury is done after well you deal with it regularly. people from other countries can have all the pride they want which i think is great but they cannot go out there and play like they dont have an employer thats just the way it is like it or not when you have a job you have certain responsibilities that doesnt exclude the nba period. so this will put the decesion on them and will also allow the player to show that much more pride in their country (if thats what it is) or do they really do it because theyre afraid of losing fans??? my suggestion and rule will bring truth and consequence as well as showing you love your country that much more. manu is not excluded if he gets injured and is useless for the spurs they need to have consequences its just not fair. if his national team gets him they need to pay for his living as well

The problem with that is that you should do it both ways. And a player could choose not to play in their NBA team if he thinks he is at an injury risk (see manu in 08 playoffs. so that he can prevent an injury (Manu 08 Olympics) and then he may have started the season with us, broke down in the NBA and we would be crying the same.
Best situation possible is a signing with a lot of bonuses the way it´s startiong to pan out in soccer.
You get a salary, which 60% is guaranteed, 30% depends on games played. 10% on personal performance, and increases in case of great team performance.
That way players and owners would be aware and protected in each scenario.
You play a lot and win and you get more than expected.
You dont then it´s the contrary.

[Brazil]

These rules should be for every NBA player and their NT. The reason there seems to be a double standard is because the "foreign" players seem to have suffered more injuries. There are a lot more of the foreign players playing for their NT's that play in the NBA as well.

The thing is almost 100% of int players in the NBA are selected for their respective NT. For the american players the reservoir is much bigger, USA can send team D and be competitive in FIBA competition.

[smeagol]

Dudes, get over it. You want internationasl players on the roster, don't complain about them defending their national colors. Otherwise, draft Americans and get it over the crying.

[Mel_13]

Unlike most NBA fans I like it when NBA players participate in important FIBA events. Yes, injuries are a worry, but players get injured all the time, they could get injured practicing. Tiredness is an understandable concern, however, I have no sympathy for the NBA teams in this regard because of the ridiculous 82-game regular season, back-to-backs and stuff like that. Meaningless from a basketball point of view, money generating though.

7-10 intense games during the summer can make a lot of good for all players, much more than 7-10 early december NBA games anyway. Durant, for example, will return a better player and a better leader because of his participation in the World Cup, so will Scola, so will others. Just like winning the olympic gold has undoubtedly helped Manu grow as a player and in reflection helped the Spurs as well.

Careful. Such well-reasoned posts will be reported to the moderators of this forum.

[temujin]

There is no question that FIBA basketball helps US players.
First, they face zones. Serious zones. Zones are the ultimate team defense and you need a team offense to attack them. No circus stuff.
Historically, US teams have had hard times against well organized zones, including at the 08 Olympics. Players like Paul or James were atrocious against zones. They had not the foggiest idea what to do
This time, K organized the offense quite well, and it helped that he had a great PG in Billups and a fantastic shooter in Durant.

Secondly, they get confronted to some real crowds (expecially if you play in the balkans). People get involved, don't arrive late at the game, don't get up to get a beer, don't come back early in the 3rd, don't leave if the team is down by 15 with 5' to go. A game is a war, as it should be, actually. I love a couple of reactions by Durant after two 3s in the second half, and how he looked at the fans.

Third, the player learns to respect opponents made EXCLUSIVELY of non US players. That's different from facing an NBA team in which there will always be a bunch of kids like him. They need to respect players from countries as tiny as one the US states (ex Yugoslavia, Lithuania, Greece), who can still kick your ass, if you are arrogant.