Serious question - real geeks only please

[Wild Cobra]

My daughter needs a new laptop for her college courses. She does drafting and uses some rather powerful programs. Her birthday is next month and I would like to get her a new computer. I'm thinking of one that will set me back I think $999.

Not the resolution that I would demand, but she is happy with her current 1440 x 900 17" laptop, except it's too slow for the programs she runs. Bought this computer several years ago. I forget which one, or specs, but it is less than 2 ghz and a single core processor. I am looking at replacing it with the Toshiba Satellite P505-S8025. It has the i5 processor at 2.4 ghz. it has an 18.4" screen at 1680 x 945.

Thoughts please. I will talk to her again tomorrow. If I remember, I'll ask what programs she needs more speed on.

satellite P505-S8025 specs (http://cdgenp01.csd.toshiba.com/content/product/pdf_files/detailed_specs/satellite_P505-S8025.pdf)

Real geeks only please. Some of you here have proven not to be worthy of that title.

[Cry Havoc]

My daughter needs a new laptop for her college courses. She does drafting and uses some rather powerful programs. Her birthday is next month and I would like to get her a new computer. I'm thinking of one that will set me back I think $999.

but she is happy with her current 1440 x 900 17" laptop, except it's too slow for the programs she runs. Bought this computer several years ago. I forget which one, or specs, but it is less than 2 ghz and a single core processor. I am looking at replacing it with the Toshiba Satellite P505-S8025. It has the i5 processor at 2.4 ghz. it has an 18.4" screen at 1680 x 945.

Thoughts please. I will talk to her again tomorrow. If I remember, I'll ask what programs she needs more speed on.

satellite P505-S8025 specs (http://cdgenp01.csd.toshiba.com/content/product/pdf_files/detailed_specs/satellite_P505-S8025.pdf)

Real geeks only please. Some of you here have proven not to be worthy of that title.

If she needs a really fast laptop, why not get an i7? There's quite a big difference between the i5 and the i7, as far as I know.


Not the resolution that I would demand

:rolleyes

[phxspurfan]

My daughter needs a new laptop for her college courses. She does drafting and uses some rather powerful programs. Her birthday is next month and I would like to get her a new computer. I'm thinking of one that will set me back I think $999.

Not the resolution that I would demand, but she is happy with her current 1440 x 900 17" laptop, except it's too slow for the programs she runs. Bought this computer several years ago. I forget which one, or specs, but it is less than 2 ghz and a single core processor. I am looking at replacing it with the Toshiba Satellite P505-S8025. It has the i5 processor at 2.4 ghz. it has an 18.4" screen at 1680 x 945.

Thoughts please. I will talk to her again tomorrow. If I remember, I'll ask what programs she needs more speed on.

satellite P505-S8025 specs (http://cdgenp01.csd.toshiba.com/content/product/pdf_files/detailed_specs/satellite_P505-S8025.pdf)

Real geeks only please. Some of you here have proven not to be worthy of that title.

What video card does it have? If it is the Intel onboard gfx you'll want to get her another laptop with discrete gfx if you can (preferrably Nvidia).

(I test CPUs for a living)

[Wild Cobra]

The specs say it's the NVIDIA® GeForce® GT 330M.

Add:

The processor is the Intel® Core™ i5-450M.

Some online hype:

Toshiba Satellite P505-S8025 - Core i5 450M / 2.4 GHz - RAM 4 GB - HDD 500 GB - DVD±RW (±R DL) / DVD-RAM - GF GT 330M TurboCache - WLAN : 802.11b/g/n (draft) - Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit - 18.4" Widescreen TFT 1680 x 945 TruBrite - camera - fusion finish in quantum black

How about opening the PDF file for the specs I included.

[Sense]

The specs say it's the NVIDIA® GeForce® GT 330M.

Add:

The processor is the Intel® Core™ i5-450M.

Some online hype:

Toshiba Satellite P505-S8025 - Core i5 450M / 2.4 GHz - RAM 4 GB - HDD 500 GB - DVD±RW (±R DL) / DVD-RAM - GF GT 330M TurboCache - WLAN : 802.11b/g/n (draft) - Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit - 18.4" Widescreen TFT 1680 x 945 TruBrite - camera - fusion finish in quantum black

How about opening the PDF file for the specs I included.


I have the i7 and so far it's awesome... the specs on that laptop look well above average, but this might be just me.. but I think the processor is by far the most important thing to look for in a laptop if you want it to last you a while, so I think you should look into laptops with the i7 with similar specs. You will have to spend a couple more hundred bucks, but it is all worth it.

[phxspurfan]

The specs say it's the NVIDIA® GeForce® GT 330M.

Add:

The processor is the Intel® Core™ i5-450M.

Some online hype:

Toshiba Satellite P505-S8025 - Core i5 450M / 2.4 GHz - RAM 4 GB - HDD 500 GB - DVD±RW (±R DL) / DVD-RAM - GF GT 330M TurboCache - WLAN : 802.11b/g/n (draft) - Windows 7 Home Premium 64-bit - 18.4" Widescreen TFT 1680 x 945 TruBrite - camera - fusion finish in quantum black

How about opening the PDF file for the specs I included.

That's probably enough system for her. Just make sure she keeps it in good shape by defragging the hard drive and installing ccleaner

[phyzik]

This is practically right up my alley.... I work for southwest research afterall, and all they do is use programs like AutoCAD, Pro/E, Ansys and Solidworks.

Do you have any idea what CAD software she would be using yet?

If she is going to be using something like Solidworks or Ansys, where you are dealing with complex 3D models that show real time stress analysis and such, you deffinately need a beefy video card.... Almost no laptop is going to be able to handle a complex job, but if it HAS to be a laptop, what your getting would be OK for multi-purpose use (surfing, gaming and the occasional CAD design work)... Just dont expect crisp and smooth model manipulation.

When it comes to CAD designing, the video card is the most important feature. These programs are reliant on the GPU, not the CPU. Every computer we purchase for engineers at Southwest Research, the most expensive component is the video cards, often costing upwards of $1000 JUST for the video card.

This is the typical one we have been purchasing recently in our systems.... and it's about middle of the road in performance....

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814133252&cm_re=Nvidia_Quadro-_-14-133-252-_-Product

Just giving you an idea what these CAD workstations cost so your not disappointed with your purchase. Top-of-the-line state-of-the-art Workstation graphics cards are going for upwards of $2800.


But those are for dedicated Desktop workstations.......

They are way overpriced IMHO, but they are designed specifically for these type of applications. The best video game graphics cards cant come close to touching these things in CAD design, and vice-versa. They are purpose built.

If you can find a laptop that has a Quadro-based video card in it, that would be better.

This HP laptop would be more suited for CAD design and its close to your price range...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834157333&cm_re=Laptop_Quadro-_-34-157-333-_-Product

This HP is better, though its a few hundred dollars more...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834157336&cm_re=Laptop_Quadro-_-34-157-336-_-Product

You will notice, even though they have a Quadro chipset in them, there are no reviews for either..... Thats because if you are doing this type of work, a laptop is not the way to go. Im not trying to disuade you from the purchase, its just the way the industry is. Either one would be great for a student thats using this type of software. No business is going to buy one over a much more capable desktop for their employee though.

Whatever you decide, if you want something thats going to help your daughter, make SURE it has a Quadro-based graphics card.

all said and done though, and I understand the need of a laptop at school, a laptop for this type of work will never come close to a desktop workstation.


Just in case you dont take my word for it, as I know I've been an ass towards you several times in my drinking binges, here's a direct comparisson between a Geforce GTX 280 and its comparitive Quadro-based graphics card designed for this kind of stuff.... The drivers are probably the biggest component to how this stuff works, and you could probably find a way to load a Quadro driver for a Geforce card or equivelant, but there are some minor hardware differences that help provide that extra peak performance, such as denser memory and such.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/quadro-fx-4800,review-31555.html

Definately get one with a Quadro GPU. What ever company she goes to work for, in my experience, will hook her up with a badass desktop workstation. Let them pay for that shit. All I'm trying to do is let you know what your expectations should be from the laptop you purchase.

[Wild Cobra]

If you can find a laptop that has a Quadro-based video card in it, that would be better.

This HP laptop would be more suited for CAD design and its close to your price range...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834157333&cm_re=Laptop_Quadro-_-34-157-333-_-Product

This HP is better, though its a few hundred dollars more...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16834157336&cm_re=Laptop_Quadro-_-34-157-336-_-Product

I'm actually surprised you suggested these two. The NVS 5100 is a little better in some tests but generally not as good in others compared to the GT 330M that this laptop has. For about $140 more, I can get a laptop with the GTS 360M in it. I just may do it. Same case, etc, but 0.4 lbs heavier due to the doubled batter capacity for the graphics demands. 87 watt hours or battery!

Consider something...

3100M 16 pipelines at 600 mhz 64 bit 512 meg GDDR3 72 GFLOPS
5100M 48 pipelines at 550 mhz 128 bit 1 gig DDR3 174 GFLOPS
GT 330M 48 unified pipelines at 575 mhz 128 bit 1 gig GDDR3 182 GFLOPS
GTS 360M 96 unified at 575 mhz 128 bit 1 gig GDDR5 413 GFLOPS

Your quadro 4800 has 462 GFLOPS by another source not listed by the same one I looked at comparing the four.

Shader speeds are 1470, 1210, 1265, and 1325 mhz in order for the 3100 to 360.

Memory speed is 800, 800, 1066, and 1800 mhz.

Max processor speeds are 1470, 1210, 1265, and 1436 mhz.

I would like to note that the 360M's 1800 mhz memory speed is as installed in the Toshiba laptop with the installed 1GB GDDR5 memory. The GPU supports up to 2000 mhz.

Transistors are 260, ???, 486, and 727 million.

Memory bandwidth is 12.8, 25.6, 25.6, and 57.6 GB/sec

For $1,140, I can get the Toshiba Qosmio X505-Q885 (http://cdgenp01.csd.toshiba.com/content/product/pdf_files/detailed_specs/qosmio_X505-Q885.pdf). It's less at some places on the web, but if I get it, i will pay the $1,140.

As for what she's running. She has Autocad and some 3d rendering programs. I forget which, but she says one of her 3D designs take a painstaking 7 minutes to render. That's with her 6 year old laptop with the 1.8 GHz AMD Turion and the ATI RADEON XPRESS 200M IGP.

http://laptops.toshiba.com/images/products/prod_qosmio505-q882-85_600-01.jpg

[eyeh8u]

I'm actually surprised you suggested these two. The NVS 5100 is a little better in some tests but generally not as good in others compared to the GT 330M that this laptop has. For about $140 more, I can get a laptop with the GTS 360M in it. I just may do it. Same case, etc, but 0.4 lbs heavier due to the doubled batter capacity for the graphics demands. 87 watt hours or battery!

Consider something...

3100M 16 pipelines at 600 mhz 64 bit 512 meg GDDR3 72 GFLOPS
5100M 48 pipelines at 550 mhz 128 bit 1 gig DDR3 174 GFLOPS
GT 330M 48 unified pipelines at 575 mhz 128 bit 1 gig GDDR3 182 GFLOPS
GTS 360M 96 unified at 575 mhz 128 bit 1 gig GDDR5 413 GFLOPS

Your quadro 4800 has 462 GFLOPS by another source not listed by the same one I looked at comparing the four.

Shader speeds are 1470, 1210, 1265, and 1325 mhz in order for the 3100 to 360.

Memory speed is 800, 800, 1066, and 1800 mhz.

Max processor speeds are 1470, 1210, 1265, and 1436 mhz.

I would like to note that the 360M's 1800 mhz memory speed is as installed in the Toshiba laptop with the installed 1GB GDDR5 memory. The GPU supports up to 2000 mhz.

Transistors are 260, ???, 486, and 727 million.

Memory bandwidth is 12.8, 25.6, 25.6, and 57.6 GB/sec

For $1,140, I can get the Toshiba Qosmio X505-Q885 (http://cdgenp01.csd.toshiba.com/content/product/pdf_files/detailed_specs/qosmio_X505-Q885.pdf). It's less at some places on the web, but if I get it, i will pay the $1,140.

As for what she's running. She has Autocad and some 3d rendering programs. I forget which, but she says one of her 3D designs take a painstaking 7 minutes to render. That's with her 6 year old laptop with the 1.8 GHz AMD Turion and the ATI RADEON XPRESS 200M IGP.

http://laptops.toshiba.com/images/products/prod_qosmio505-q882-85_600-01.jpg


i have a qousimo, the screen is awesomely huge and its heavy, i just wish it had windows xp

[Wild Cobra]

i have a qousimo, the screen is awesomely huge and its heavy, i just wish it had windows xp
Yep. She doesn't mind getting the windows 7. I don't have a laptop, so I'll take her old one with XP for the next time I travel.

Some of those Qosimo's get near $2k (http://laptops.toshiba.com/laptops/qosmio/X500/X505-Q890), but sport the i7 and 360M.

[eyeh8u]

Yep. She doesn't mind getting the windows 7. I don't have a laptop, so I'll take her old one with XP for the next time I travel.

Some of those Qosimo's get near $2k (http://laptops.toshiba.com/laptops/qosmio/X500/X505-Q890), but sport the i7 and 360M.


i have a q870, it has an i7, the graphics card that came with it reviews good, but i think it looks real nice,

i got it for 1100 back when tigerdirect was giving 20% bing cashback, one thing to be careful with, with the quosmio is the side media controls, if your daughter types fast, she will constantly be hitting the media controls and starting up windows media player or changing the volume.

[The Reckoning]

if she does drafting, the two most popular computers off the top of my head are macs and vaios. atleast thats what all the architecture students use that i know of.

[velik_m]

SSD is a real speed booster now days. 8GB RAM is not that much, especially for graphic programs and if she's running several of them at once she'll be hitting swap all the time. I doubt getting a better processor will improve performance as much as SSD. These days processors sit idle most of the time waiting for data to be retrieved/stored anyway.

[Wild Cobra]

i have a q870, it has an i7, the graphics card that came with it reviews good, but i think it looks real nice,

i got it for 1100 back when tigerdirect was giving 20% bing cashback, one thing to be careful with, with the quosmio is the side media controls, if your daughter types fast, she will constantly be hitting the media controls and starting up windows media player or changing the volume.
Your Q870 looks like an upgrade from the Q885 i was considering. Same guts except you have the i7 and BD.

She's OK without the Bluray, and we decided to go with the one in my Op because we are both concerned about the extra power consumption and heat of the 360M GPU. She's not doing anything so intensive, so cutting her rending speed in half isn't such a big deal. Just going to the 330M GPU will make her very happy. The laptop is for between home and class. If she needs more, that's what towers are for.

[Wild Cobra]

If she needs a really fast laptop, why not get an i7? There's quite a big difference between the i5 and the i7, as far as I know.

I'm not absolutely certain here, but I don't think there is any notable difference with programs that are primarily graphic intensive, relying on the GPU. I even considered one with the i3 processor, as long as I get at least the speed of the GT 330M GPU.

She isn't using the computer for much outside of class. I was prepared to get the more expensive and faster system with an i7/GTS 360M, but she doesn't want her boyfriend preferring her new computer over his. She doesn't want games on it. She just wants faster rendering than she has now.

[Wild Cobra]

SSD is a real speed booster now days. 8GB RAM is not that much, especially for graphic programs and if she's running several of them at once she'll be hitting swap all the time. I doubt getting a better processor will improve performance as much as SSD. These days processors sit idle most of the time waiting for data to be retrieved/stored anyway.
Thanx for the tip.

I knew they existed, but haven't checked on them for a while. I just looked at a few site. I see they are affordable now. I think I'll go to Fry's after getting the computer, and get one for it.

[Wild Cobra]

if she does drafting, the two most popular computers off the top of my head are macs and vaios. atleast thats what all the architecture students use that i know of.
Well, she's not a Mac person and like most of us, wants to stick with what she knows. I haven't looked at the Vaio's for a while, but I agree, they are top notch computers.

How much does a fast one in a minimum 17" screen minimum 1440 x 900 screen cost?

She is so happy with the idea of the 18.4" screen and 1680 x 945 resolution. I cannot go backwards now. I definitely cannot go with less than what she already has.

[TDMVPDPOY]

the vaios are overrated and expensive man, u can look at a competitor for cheaper prices

[Wild Cobra]

OK...

Anyone?

Is there a better price/performance laptop than the Toshiba in my OP for CAD applications, with a minimum 17" 1440 x 900 screen?

[Cry Havoc]

OK...

Anyone?

Is there a better price/performance laptop than the Toshiba in my OP for CAD applications, with a minimum 17" 1440 x 900 screen?

Why don't you use your extensive knowledge of Intel processors and make a decision yourself?

Why do you need to ask for advice when apparently you know more about computers than anyone on SpursTalk?

Serious questions.

[Wild Cobra]

Why don't you use your extensive knowledge of Intel processors and make a decision yourself?

Why do you need to ask for advice when apparently you know more about computers than anyone on SpursTalk?

Serious questions.
Wow...

It's pretty hard too look up the thousands of products out there. I have only looked a maybe two dozen.

Even of those I find, I can grasp the differences of benchmark tests, but the overall design still matters. You know, weakest link theory.

Edit add...

I think I selected a very good laptop to begin with, and asked because I didn't want to miss out on better options. Would you agree that by this viewpoint, I know I don't know everything?

I did have a few good replies. Why can't yours be one of them?

[Wild Cobra]

-delete, wrong thread-

[Useruser666]

Wildcobra,

The laptop you have is fine for basic CAD work (Assuming AutoCAD by Autodesk 2009 or newer.). As others have said it might lag behind on medium to large size CAD projects but this would be encountered more in a professional environment. The "I" CPUs I have worked with seem to be great performers. I would however recommend the I7 chip 920 or 960 with whatever the highest amount of ram the laptop can be upgraded to. I would say at least 6 gigs of ram. This will depend on what price point you are at. Another consideration might be a docking station so that she can connect it to a larger monitor/mouse when available. Whatever you do, do not buy a computer from Cyberpower Inc., they are a total ripoff.

I do design/drafting/engineering for a living and have used CAD software for 15+ years.

Good luck....

[stretch]

Thoughts please. I will talk to her again tomorrow. If I remember, I'll ask what programs she needs more speed on.


She probably spends 98% of her time on redtube.com

[resistanze]

:lmao

[Wild Cobra]

She probably spends 98% of her time on redtube.com
face to face, I would knock you out. This is my daughter we are speaking of you low life piece of shit.

[TDMVPDPOY]

lmao redtube

yes the notebook quasimo u listed is very good...

why dont u get one custom assembled to ur specifics?

look at this guys list, even though he gets his stuff from the states and sells it down here, just have a look at specs and price...and see if you can get one same in ur country?
http://www.logicalblueone.com.au/store/

[Wild Cobra]

yes the notebook quasimo u listed is very good...

Yes, I know. passed that one and orderd the one in my OP yesterday.


why dont u get one custom assembled to ur specifics?

The one I ordered will work fine, and adding another 4 gigs and SSD, which I can do myself, it will be a sweet laptop for her courses.


look at this guys list, even though he gets his stuff from the states and sells it down here, just have a look at specs and price...and see if you can get one same in ur country?
http://www.logicalblueone.com.au/store/

Looks good, but I have certain favorite retailers I go with. In this case, I ordered it on my Sears card with 18 month interest free.

http://s.sears.com/is/image/Sears/00317826000?hei=600&wid=600&op_sharpen=1&qlt=90,0& resMode=sharp&op_usm=0.9,0.5,0,0 (http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_00317826000P)

[TDMVPDPOY]

[QUOTE=Wild Cobra;4642789]

Looks good, but I have certain favorite retailers I go with. In this case, I ordered it on my Sears card with 18 month interest free.

how much did that end up costing you?? did you buy insurance? can i drop by? :lmao

[Wild Cobra]

[QUOTE=Wild Cobra;4642789]

Looks good, but I have certain favorite retailers I go with. In this case, I ordered it on my Sears card with 18 month interest free.

how much did that end up costing you?? did you buy insurance? can i drop by? :lmao
Why are you being an idiot?

[Cry Havoc]

[QUOTE=TDMVPDPOY;4643183]
Why are you being an idiot?

I think he means he wants to drop by to game on it. Just how I read that.

[TDMVPDPOY]

[QUOTE=Wild Cobra;4643495]

I think he means he wants to drop by to game on it. Just how I read that.

lol i quoted wrongly didnt put the end bit [/]

was hoping if he wants to a insurance scam :( lol

[Wild Cobra]

I don't buy into the insurance stuff. The shipping is UPS ground, and cheap for this one. The bill is $1,009.64 for the $999.99 purchase.

Yes, I could have ordered it elsewhere for less. I simply like doing business with Sears. Businesses that have my respect get my business rather than the lowest price.

[TDMVPDPOY]

Oi WILDCOBRA

did you end up getting the laptop for ur daughter??

question about ur daughter, is she freshmen doing architecture? cause my brother also selected to do this course unless he gets enough qualified points for the course, or just go the long way by spending 1-2 years at a trade school doing draftsman before getting a credit transfer into a architecture course at some random uni...

if he gets selected, i might beed to build him a new comp or just go lappy...