Tea Party movement being cynically manipulated.

[RandomGuy]

Yet another story in a long line of stories that make me worry about government of the money, by the money, for the money.

I will also be watching to see how much Tea Party members, who I generally regard as being poor in critical thinking skills, realize that they are being co-opted by people who care less for their movement, and more for using that movement to advance their own financial interests.--RG

http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpolitics/2010/09/17/129928863/tea-party-s-grassroots-watered-by-deep-pockets



Tea Party's Grassroots Watered By Deep Pockets From Above

09:32 am

September 17, 2010


As the Tea Party movement has loomed ever larger on the U.S. political scene, increasing attention has been paid to where the money flowing into the movement is coming from.

There was New Yorker writer Jane Mayer's recent opus about the quiet money links between billionaire Koch brothers and the Tea Party movement. That controversial piece has gotten a lot of attention and some push back from one of its main subjects, David Koch

The Kochs made much of their money in the oil industry and as Morning Edition co-host Steve Inskeep discussed with Dave Levinthal, editor of the OpenSecretsblog for the Center for Responsive Politics, that's just one establishment source of the money for what many view as an anti-establishment movement.

Not that the grassroots participation isn't real. It is. The Tea Party has tens of thousands of real people who are angry about the country's direction. Of that there is no doubt.

But that doesn't mean that there aren't rich conservatives and corporate types who aren't trying to harness this energy to their own ends which, they just happen to believe, would be good for the country, too.


LEVINTHAL: Arguably, there are some groups out there who have co-opted this energy. One would be the Tea Party Express. It's an organization that has largely been criticized by even some of the more grassroots organizations as being run by political operatives, run by Republicans.

STEVE: What is it? Is it an office somewhere? Is it an organization?

LEVINTHAL: It's an organization out of California. But at the end of the day, this is a group that has come into a number of key Senate races throughout this country and dumped in, poured in hundreds of thousands of in some cases in a very, very short period of time in favor of a candidate they wanted to win.

STEVE: And where do they get their money?

LEVINTHAL: They get their money from a variety of sources. A lot of individuals, some institutional support, but they have received a ton of it...

Levinthal also mentioned the Tea Party Caucus on Capitol Hill, a group of lawmakers who are trying to tap into the populist energy.


LEVINTHAL: We actually did a study to see where they're getting their money from. They're receiving the bulk of their money, or at least the most amount of their money from retirees, from health professionals, and also people who are involved in the financial industries. The oil and gas industries.

STEVE: Excuse me. You just said health professionals are giving a lot of money to candidates in the Tea Party Caucus?

LEVINTHAL: Absolutely. Individuals who...

STEVE: This is a movement that was fueled by anger at the health care law and people in the health care industry are financing the Tea Party caucus?

It certainly shocked us when we found that out too.

I wonder if there's been reaction within Tea Party activists themselves to realize that people who are taking on their banner are funded by people in the health care industry and oil industry.

This goes back to the notion that there maybe are some people out there who are trying to co-opt the Tea Party movement, the energy, the grass-roots nature of this movement and use it at a very high level in politics for their purposes...

[TeyshaBlue]

I'm not sure that the average Tea Party member is capable of discerning whether or not his particular group has been co-opted. Much like our major political parties. I'm not sure what makes them any different that the Democratic or Republican party in that regard. I do find it odd that observers will label them as grassroots and organized and astro-turf-co-opted in the same sentence. I think that quirk of duality drives alot of media attention and, indeed, attracts the moneied interests like moths to a flame.

[RandomGuy]

I'm not sure that the average Tea Party member is capable of discerning whether or not his particular group has been co-opted. Much like our major political parties. I'm not sure what makes them any different that the Democratic or Republican party in that regard. I do find it odd that observers will label them as grassroots and organized and astro-turf-co-opted in the same sentence. I think that quirk of duality drives alot of media attention and, indeed, attracts the moneied interests like moths to a flame.

I would agree.

[boutons_deux]

Repug, Dem, tea bagger voters, are duped into thinking thinking that their votes count.

90% of the time, the only vote that counts is how much money the candidate spends.

[BlairForceDejuan]

At the end of the day, whatever Government does should not greatly impact your well-being.

Just work with whatever system is going to be put in place because you really have no control over anything outside your own life. I hope the Teabaggers keep it up, because while I sure as hell would not spend my time for politicians - these teabaggers are pissing off the right type of people.

[BlairForceDejuan]

The funny thing is RandomGuy loves the fact of the astro-turfing and all of that, yet ignores that the same thing is going on with Climate Change, Hope & Change, and all of the other manufactured bullshit.

[RandomGuy]

Repug, Dem, tea bagger voters, are duped into thinking thinking that their votes count.

90% of the time, the only vote that counts is how much money the candidate spends.

Sadly, more true than I could care for.

[RandomGuy]

The funny thing is RandomGuy loves the fact of the astro-turfing and all of that, yet ignores that the same thing is going on with Climate Change, Hope & Change, and all of the other manufactured bullshit.

I don't ignore the fact that there is indeed some scare-mongering about Climate Change going on, driven by people with an economic interest.

There is also no small part of the "Denier" movement that is being directly funded by opposing financial interests.

[boutons_deux]

"whatever Government does should not greatly impact your well-being"

bullshit.

[boutons_deux]

Sadly, more true than I could care for.

With her announcement Tuesday that she had contributed another $15 million of her personal fortune to her quest to defeat Attorney General Jerry Brown, Ms. Whitman became the leading self-financing political candidate in American history with a total of $119 million donated to her own campaign.

She surged past New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg, who previously held the personal financing record with the $109.2 million he spent while seeking his third term as Hizzoner last year. The spending averaged out to about $186 per vote and bested the previous title of $85 million — also held by Mr. Bloomberg, from his 2005 campaign.

http://wonkette.com/422090/meg-whitman-gives-herself-a-lot-of-money-again

Bloomberg said recently he fully supports the idea of a candidate spending $100M+ of its own money to buy an election, even when there is no credible opposition (in Bloomberg's last campaign).

[jack sommerset]

The funny thing is RandomGuy loves the fact of the astro-turfing and all of that, yet ignores that the same thing is going on with Climate Change, Hope & Change, and all of the other manufactured bullshit.

I would agree.

[boutons_deux]

"astro-turfing and all of that, yet ignores that the same thing is going on with Climate Change, Hope & Change"

bullshit. false equivalence.

VRWC/Koch/oil/coal/gas/chemical $$$ are secretly buying the warming denial bullshit, paying for tea baggers anti-govt rants to deflect tea baggers from real culprits.

Who's paying for the scientists world-wide whose data demonstrates anthropogenic global warming?

Hope & Change was a campaign slogan, basically "Dems are a "change" from the Repugs", no conspiracy there. Just a campaign communicating to an electorate fed up with bullshit wars and Repug malfeasance and lying.

[Wild Cobra]

"whatever Government does should not greatly impact your well-being"

bullshit.Are you saying government is suppose to fuck with our well being?

No wonder you are a liberal.

[boutons_deux]

the govt impacting citizens' well-being is, in your perverted hate-all-government(except your sacred govt military)-all-the-time ideology, necessarily fucking with their well-being?

[Stringer_Bell]

Are you saying government is suppose to fuck with our well being?

No wonder you are a liberal.

As opposed to "conservatives" that need to carry around cards stating they want to regulate wombs, marriage, and gays in the military. Personal freedoms for all vs Economic free for all...decisions, decisions, decisions.

[Wild Cobra]

As opposed to "conservatives" that need to carry around cards stating they want to regulate wombs, marriage, and gays in the military. Personal freedoms for all vs Economic free for all...decisions, decisions, decisions.
Link?

I want Womb? Abortion is murder. Yes, it can be debatable except once into the 2nd trimester. It is definitely murder at that point.

Marriage... I want the government to get out of it. They have no right to license who can and cannot get married, or give tax breaks for one action vs. another regarding relationships.

Gays in the military... When men and women share the same group barracks, sleeping in the same rooms and share the showers, then gays can join also. Once that is acceptable, then so are the gays. Unless, you are going to give all soldiers their own private space.

[Stringer_Bell]

Link?

I want Womb? Abortion is murder. Yes, it can be debatable except once into the 2nd trimester. It is definitely murder at that point.

Marriage... I want the government to get out of it. They have no right to license who can and cannot get married, or give tax breaks for one action vs. another regarding relationships.

Gays in the military... When men and women share the same group barracks, sleeping in the same rooms and share the showers, then gays can join also. Once that is acceptable, then so are the gays. Unless, you are going to give all soldiers their own private space.

I can't link for the same reason why I wouldn't expect you to link me if i asked you to link me to how liberals "fuck with our well-being." It's the general idea of Liberals being about entitlements, same as I and others point out the general idea of the "conservatives" wanting to police households. We can only choose one or the either, and I think even in the midst of economic uncertaintly I'd rather stop the Tea Party loonies from voting whackos into office than be afraid of the Liberals.

[Winehole23]

You can do both.

[Wild Cobra]

I can't link for the same reason why I wouldn't expect you to link me if i asked you to link me to how liberals "fuck with our well-being." It's the general idea of Liberals being about entitlements, same as I and others point out the general idea of the "conservatives" wanting to police households. We can only choose one or the either, and I think even in the midst of economic uncertaintly I'd rather stop the Tea Party loonies from voting whackos into office than be afraid of the Liberals.
My response of "Are you saying government is suppose to fuck with our well being?" was a response to "whatever Government does should not greatly impact your well-being." It reads as if he thinks it should impact us some, just not "greatly."

Why do liberals want more government interference/help?

[boutons_deux]

"Why do liberals want more government interference/help"

why do you insist on creating straw men?

[Winehole23]

Tax junk food and obesity.

[Stringer_Bell]

Mr. Winehole, taxing "junk food" to curb obesity and the various conditions that arise from being overweight and ingesting all the stuff in shitty food is BAD for the food industry. It's bad for business and stops them from pursuing their goals for prosperity if taxes cause people to buy less of their products. It's just wrong.

Maybe we should tax parents with obese children? If they are involved in their children's diet, and scared of getting taxed for fat kids, the children are less likely to be obese, thus less likely to become reliant on the government/insurance for the health problems that arise in youth and old age.

[boutons_deux]

"I'm not sure what makes them any different that the Democratic or Republican party in that regard."

I am. Dems and Repugs know their parties are corrupted and controlled by money.

Naive, duped tea baggers think they are grassroots and pure.

[ducks]

so according to the poster who started this thread
any tea party member is stupid wow

you are stupid now to want change but before you were ok to vote change

[Wild Cobra]

Maybe we should tax parents with obese children? If they are involved in their children's diet, and scared of getting taxed for fat kids, the children are less likely to be obese, thus less likely to become reliant on the government/insurance for the health problems that arise in youth and old age.
If health care is mandatory, i will be one of many petitioning that people get taxed for their controllable conditions.

How about a tax based on an added percentage past a certain BMI?

[Stringer_Bell]

If health care is mandatory, i will be one of many petitioning that people get taxed for their controllable conditions.

How about a tax based on an added percentage past a certain BMI?

That's what I was thinking too, but I think the adults are too hard to change and it would cause a lot more unhappiness than helpfulness. The best thing to do is punish lazy parents for having fat kids until they are 18, which trains the kids into becoming adults that realize that there's consequences for being fat pieces of shit. :downspin:

[Wild Cobra]

which trains the kids into becoming adults that realize that there's consequences for being fat pieces of shit. :downspin:
LOL...

You mean besides being a fat piece of shit?

[boutons_deux]

If health care is mandatory, i will be one of many petitioning that people get taxed for their controllable conditions.

How about a tax based on an added percentage past a certain BMI?

BMI is famously unreliable.

A composite score of several health indicators is my preference.

I think fat percentage is better than BMI.

There could also be some functional/performance tests run once/year. minutes to run one mile. a treadmill test. lung capacity.

Also, blood and urine tests could also measured, glucose, tryglycerides, BP, stress hormones.

I wouldn't have a system of penalties or taxes for being in the bad range, but serious discounts on mandated public option health insurance.

Everybody pays 100% of a percentage of their earned income. If you have no earned income, but have unearned income, that's your basis (no cap).

Then as you increase your health composite score, you get x% off your health premium. The discounts must be serious to motivate optional participation in the discount scheme, like up to 50%.

Of course, this will never happen because the measurements are too complex, too many people will game the system making anti-gaming tactics too burdensome, and corps will of course corrupt the govt people designing the system.

And of course, the corrupt legislators would never have enough responsibility nor hold the nation's well-being above their own campaign contributors' profits. Self-inflicted disease is a huge industry and that industry owns Congress.

Anyway, the tea party is a bunch of naive fools to think they can change anything.

[Wild Cobra]

BMI is famously unreliable.

There are three methods of BMI measurements I am aware of. One is unreliable, another good, the third is rteasonably accurate.


A composite score of several health indicators is my preference.

Like preexisting conditions too?


I think fat percentage is better than BMI.

What do you think BMI is? It's exactly that. What matters is the accuracy of the measurement style.


There could also be some functional/performance tests run once/year. minutes to run one mile. a treadmill test. lung capacity.

Like an annual military PT test?


Also, blood and urine tests could also measured, glucose, tryglycerides, BP, stress hormones.

Yes..

At the same time, I'll bet the government checks for amphetamines, marijuana, alcohol, etc.

They love building data bases.


I wouldn't have a system of penalties or taxes for being in the bad range, but serious discounts on mandated public option health insurance.

With the concept of laws that pay for themselves, shouldn't the riskier people pay more? I don't get it. You favor subsidizing the healthy, but not the unhealthy?

While you're at it, shouldn't we tax the productive people less and tax the less productive more, giving them incentive to work better?


Everybody pays 100% of a percentage of their earned income. If you have no earned income, but have unearned income, that's your basis (no cap).

Don't we do that with medicare? So you are in favor of raising medicare rates i take it?


Then as you increase your health composite score, you get x% off your health premium. The discounts must be serious to motivate optional participation in the discount scheme, like up to 50%.

Lets do the the same thing with out income tax system. The healtier you are for the economy, the l3ss you get taxed. If you don't want something, tax it, right? If you want less rich people tax them. instead, we want less poor people, so let's tax the instead. OK?


Of course, this will never happen because the measurements are too complex, too many people will game the system making anti-gaming tactics too burdensome, and corps will of course corrupt the govt people designing the system.

Measurements are easy if you use the right methodology.


And of course, the corrupt legislators would never have enough responsibility nor hold the nation's well-being above their own campaign contributors' profits. Self-inflicted disease is a huge industry and that industry owns Congress.

No, self inflicted harm is what people do to themselves. The evil corporations only sell what the people want to buy. Don't blame the evil corporations, but the lack of people's self control.

wait. i forget. You want a nanny state where the government tells people what they can and cannot do.

Sorry, my bad.


Anyway, the tea party is a bunch of naive fools to think they can change anything.

Doesn't look so foolish to me. they seem to have a pretty wide impact, and people like you have their panties all bunched up over their success so far.