Daddy_Of_All_Trolls
09-20-2010, 04:20 PM
It's off season, have fun with this what-if:
Two trades changed the dynamics of the west last decade, Shaq to the Heat, and Gasol to the Lakers. (I’m a real devil with the Gasol trade, as you will see) I already posted a hypothetical Kobe for Tim trade in 2003 here:
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4628114&postcount=327
That, and the debate in that thread over who forced Shaq out of LA led me to become fascinated with the following hypothetical situation in 2004. Who cares if salaries don’t work or not. This is really going to mess with everyone’s mind because some favorite and hated players get traded away, or don’t. Hey, it’s all about your team anyway, isn’t it? The last 6 titles are now “unofficially” up for grabs.
Here’s the criteria
1) Summer of 2004: Tim Duncan is traded to the Miami Heat for Caron Butler, Lamar Odom, and Brian Grant
2) Phil Jackson stays with the Lakers. Shaq agrees to give the reins of the team to Kobe. Both Kobe and Shaq put up numbers as they did in reality. Derek Fisher leaves for Golden State. Payton stays, Malone retires. Lakers remain a two man team, filling holes in the lineup from the stock available.
3) 2005: Spurs draft Bynum and Farmar. Spurs get Kwame Brown in 2005 for Butler and trade him for Pau Gasol in 2008. (Gasol has to go somewhere, right? So I play Devil here and send him to the Spurs). Assumption will be Spurs are not serious contenders until Gasol trade.
4) Mavs beat Golden State in 2007 playoffs.
5) Phoenix will not be trading Marion for Shaq
6) The Cavs won’t make the finals in 2007, east is too tough.
7) All contending teams remain unchanged except as above.
8) Everyone stays healthy. Tough to assume, but go with it, ok?
9) 6 titles are now up for grabs from 2005 to 2010, Spurs give up 2, Lakers 2, Celtics 1, Heat 1.
10) 2010: LeBron joins the Heat. Duncan tries to extend his career like Kareem did. Bosh can go to the Bulls, Knicks, Nets, Clippers, or Rockets. Carmelo Anthony team status still undetermined.
Pistons fans should like this because the Spurs won’t be there to beat them in 2005.
Mavs fans should like this because they rule the west for at least 3 years.
Heat fans should like this because it keeps them competitive longer and they may even win in 2005 and 2006.
Spurs fans might like this if they buy into the fact they are the current Lakers core with Parker and Ginobili replacing Kobe, and still have their better bench. If they win 2 of 3 LOB’s in 2008-10, they still have 4 titles and a chance for more. I know no Spurs fan wants to trade Duncan, but if there was a time and a way to do it, this would seem to clearly put the Spurs at the top of the west now:
C: Bynum
PF: Gasol
SF: RJ
PG: Parker
SG: Ginobili
Bench: Odom, Blair, Hill, Splitter, Farmar? etc….
Lakers fans should like this because it shows Dr. Buss made the right choice to trade Shaq when he had value.
Suns fans should like this as no Spurs team is on hand to spoil their seasons for awhile.
Now three questions:
1) What do you think happens in 2005-2010? My impression is the west plays out like this.: Chances are the Mavs make the finals 2005-07 and probably win at least one. The Lakers last chance may be 2005 with a core of Shaq and Kobe. After that they fall off the radar a bit each year. In 2008 the Spurs begin to represent the west for 3 seasons, with tough fights with the Mavs who have more playoff experience. The east sees the Pistons and Heat fight it out 2005-07. The east wins 1 or 2 titles. In 2008, the Celtics take over and reach the finals 3 years running. Spurs and Celtics probably go 2-1, but who comes out on top? Cavs don’t make a finals.
2) How do these revamped Spurs fare against either Miami or Boston in 2011 and on? Who can challenge the Spurs in the west now?
3) Would the Heat with Duncan today be better than with Bosh?
See it gets tricky now. If a Spurs fan says they will beat the Heat, they may be saying the Lakers in reality will too. See, it all comes down to team loyalty, thanks for reading.
Two trades changed the dynamics of the west last decade, Shaq to the Heat, and Gasol to the Lakers. (I’m a real devil with the Gasol trade, as you will see) I already posted a hypothetical Kobe for Tim trade in 2003 here:
http://www.spurstalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4628114&postcount=327
That, and the debate in that thread over who forced Shaq out of LA led me to become fascinated with the following hypothetical situation in 2004. Who cares if salaries don’t work or not. This is really going to mess with everyone’s mind because some favorite and hated players get traded away, or don’t. Hey, it’s all about your team anyway, isn’t it? The last 6 titles are now “unofficially” up for grabs.
Here’s the criteria
1) Summer of 2004: Tim Duncan is traded to the Miami Heat for Caron Butler, Lamar Odom, and Brian Grant
2) Phil Jackson stays with the Lakers. Shaq agrees to give the reins of the team to Kobe. Both Kobe and Shaq put up numbers as they did in reality. Derek Fisher leaves for Golden State. Payton stays, Malone retires. Lakers remain a two man team, filling holes in the lineup from the stock available.
3) 2005: Spurs draft Bynum and Farmar. Spurs get Kwame Brown in 2005 for Butler and trade him for Pau Gasol in 2008. (Gasol has to go somewhere, right? So I play Devil here and send him to the Spurs). Assumption will be Spurs are not serious contenders until Gasol trade.
4) Mavs beat Golden State in 2007 playoffs.
5) Phoenix will not be trading Marion for Shaq
6) The Cavs won’t make the finals in 2007, east is too tough.
7) All contending teams remain unchanged except as above.
8) Everyone stays healthy. Tough to assume, but go with it, ok?
9) 6 titles are now up for grabs from 2005 to 2010, Spurs give up 2, Lakers 2, Celtics 1, Heat 1.
10) 2010: LeBron joins the Heat. Duncan tries to extend his career like Kareem did. Bosh can go to the Bulls, Knicks, Nets, Clippers, or Rockets. Carmelo Anthony team status still undetermined.
Pistons fans should like this because the Spurs won’t be there to beat them in 2005.
Mavs fans should like this because they rule the west for at least 3 years.
Heat fans should like this because it keeps them competitive longer and they may even win in 2005 and 2006.
Spurs fans might like this if they buy into the fact they are the current Lakers core with Parker and Ginobili replacing Kobe, and still have their better bench. If they win 2 of 3 LOB’s in 2008-10, they still have 4 titles and a chance for more. I know no Spurs fan wants to trade Duncan, but if there was a time and a way to do it, this would seem to clearly put the Spurs at the top of the west now:
C: Bynum
PF: Gasol
SF: RJ
PG: Parker
SG: Ginobili
Bench: Odom, Blair, Hill, Splitter, Farmar? etc….
Lakers fans should like this because it shows Dr. Buss made the right choice to trade Shaq when he had value.
Suns fans should like this as no Spurs team is on hand to spoil their seasons for awhile.
Now three questions:
1) What do you think happens in 2005-2010? My impression is the west plays out like this.: Chances are the Mavs make the finals 2005-07 and probably win at least one. The Lakers last chance may be 2005 with a core of Shaq and Kobe. After that they fall off the radar a bit each year. In 2008 the Spurs begin to represent the west for 3 seasons, with tough fights with the Mavs who have more playoff experience. The east sees the Pistons and Heat fight it out 2005-07. The east wins 1 or 2 titles. In 2008, the Celtics take over and reach the finals 3 years running. Spurs and Celtics probably go 2-1, but who comes out on top? Cavs don’t make a finals.
2) How do these revamped Spurs fare against either Miami or Boston in 2011 and on? Who can challenge the Spurs in the west now?
3) Would the Heat with Duncan today be better than with Bosh?
See it gets tricky now. If a Spurs fan says they will beat the Heat, they may be saying the Lakers in reality will too. See, it all comes down to team loyalty, thanks for reading.