Can Kobe win with another PF other than Gasol? No, he cannot

[LeHeat_Dynasty]

This crossed my mind because several times but sincerely think the Lakers would've had similar succcess if they had either Wade, Lebron or even Paul Pierce in place of Kobe last year. Kobe's one of the most deadliest NBA player to date but I think his value is exaggerated a bit by sports fans.



If we flip the script a little bit, I don't Kobe paired with another PF would make them back to back champions.


With all due respect to Mr. Nowitzki, I don't think he can be as effective as Gasol defensively. Amare basically plays no defense and has no fundamental understaing like Gasol. Bosh? Softer than Pau. Carlos Boozer? forget about him. Duncan? Maybe, but he's too old and last year I think Pau showed the value of youth and fresher legs.



Which brings me into the conclusion that Gasol really has been LA's most valuable piece, not Phil or Kobe. I mean Phil Jackson is really good, but I think if you replace him with Larry Brown or Greg Popovich, the Lakers won't miss much, in fact I think they'll probably close out teams in a much dominating fashion instead of giving up leads because Phil can be a very stubborn egomaniac at times. Kobe though the undisputed leader and best offensive player in LA is also expendable, this is not to bash Kobe, I love his work ethic, on the court persona and his set of offensive skills, but lets face the fact that Wade shares the same skillset and intensity but he's younger, quicker and shoots at a higher efficiency than Kobe. Ditto with Lebron (Not a bash on Kobe, just stating the obvious)



We all know, Gasol has a 0-12 playoff record and that he's not without fault during LA's title runs. But let's not forget that he has been LA's most productive player last season and to a degree its best defensive presence.

[Nahtanoj]

Pretty sure he can win with Tim Duncan.

[NASHville]

I remember people saying Kobe couldn't win a championship without Shaq. :rolleyes

[LeHeat_Dynasty]

Pretty sure he can win with Tim Duncan.
Tim Duncan of last year? I don't think so.

I remember people saying Kobe couldn't win a championship without Shaq. :rolleyes
I was never one of those critics. I knew he can win again but he needed another big man.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

I remember people saying Kobe couldn't win a championship without Shaq. :rolleyes

People will be saying Wade can't win without Shaq when the Heat experiment fails!

[NRHector]

of course he can't, that's why he went on national radio demanding to be traded because he needed more help,he couldn't do it by himself

[Giuseppe]

Ron Artest didn't hurt either.

tee, hee.

[Ace]

People will be saying Wade can't win without Shaq when the Heat experiment fails!
Hows the wife?


BTW OP's logic is flawed. Gasol while talented is not miles ahead of every PF in the league. Duncan, KG and with a healthy Bynum even LO would've been suitable for the Lakers to win a championship.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Hows the wife?

She says Wade can't win without Shaq as well.

[Venti Quattro]

Prime Tim Duncan. I'm pretty sure that if you pair them, you could get a three-peat.

[Giuseppe]

BTW OP's logic is flawed. Gasol while talented is not miles ahead of every PF in the league.

The GH Gasol Hypothesis is dynamic. It's used to thwart Kobe...but, can quickly morph to condemn Pau, and then get it's chameleon on and bring Marc Gasol to the fray.

It's (GH) is something to behold.

[Ace]

She says Wade can't win without Shaq as well.

Was before or after she left you?

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Was before or after she left you?

She never left me, I left her. We are still friends and fuck for old times' sake every now and then. Meanwhile, we all know you haven't had pussy since pussy had you. You have no time for it, you are here 24/7.

[Ace]

She never left me, I left her. We are still friends and fuck for old times' sake every now and then.
I'm sure everybody believes that...

[Giuseppe]

I'm sure everybody believes that...

I'm envious. Nutting at crisis is better than nutting at peace.

It's better, isn't it, Daddy?

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

I'm sure everybody believes that...
Jealous much? dude, when you know how to get girls to sleep with you, it's as easy as pie to accomplish, they want it just as much as we do. Of course you wouldn't know that. Everyone here knows you haven't broken your cherry yet.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

I'm envious. Nutting at crisis is better than nutting at peace.

It's better, isn't it, Daddy?

You know, every woman is different, by that I mean her vagina. Sometimes you find one similar to one you experienced before, sometimes you get a whole new experience. There's nothing more fun than getting back into familiar turf again though. These criteria also apply to everything else, foreplay, clit licking, motion during sex, and so on.

[Giuseppe]

Yep, strange wool is always better left in the head. It's never quite like you imagine it in actual reality. One thing out of place, or, a "different" scent and your thrown off.

[Ace]

Jealous much? dude, when you know how to get girls to sleep with you, it's as easy as pie to accomplish, they want it just as much as we do. Of course you wouldn't know that. Everyone here knows you haven't broken your cherry yet.

You left her and still go to her for pussy? Yeah, I'm jealous of the over the hill man who's best accomplishment is exposing AEs and still has to go to his ex for pussy. Your just full of fail... :lmao

[21_Blessings]

Prime Tim Duncan. I'm pretty sure that if you pair them, you could get a three-peat.

It would be a 4-peat at the very least.

[picc84]

Pau being the valuable/productive player on the Lakers two title teams is tough to argue against. He's been the best player for the last two championships, 2 more than all-time PF's like Karl Malone and Charles Barkley have led their teams to as the team mvp, 1 more than Duncan has, 2 more than McHale, Garnett, Nowitzi, we can go on and on.

When you count the number of rings these guys have as the #1 option and most productive player, its apparent that not only does Gasol make a lot of all-time's look mediocre, but there's an argument for him being the best PF of all time. Rings as the best guy don't count for everything, I know, but the lack of production from the other guys in that area makes it a pretty decent argument.

Not bad for a gangly kid from Spain with hoop dreams.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Prime Tim Duncan. I'm pretty sure that if you pair them, you could get a three-peat.
Same with a prime KG or even 2008 KG. You replace Pau with that and LA becomes BY FAR the best defensive team in the NBA, Kobe gets to play in the post more because KG can space the floor well for a big, and Bynum gets utilized a lot better as the one low post player on the team.

People will disagree here, but I'd even say that replace Pau with Amare or Dirk and LA still repeats. Gasol was a horrible defender before joining LA, no reason to think Amare or Dirk couldn't go through the same transformation when neither one is as bad a defender as Memphis Pau.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Pau being the valuable/productive player on the Lakers two title teams is tough to argue against. He's been the best player for the last two championships, 2 more than all-time PF's like Karl Malone and Charles Barkley have led their teams to as the team mvp, 1 more than Duncan has, 2 more than McHale, Garnett, Nowitzi, we can go on and on.

When you count the number of rings these guys have as the #1 option and most productive player, its apparent that not only does Gasol make a lot of all-time's look mediocre, but there's an argument for him being the best PF of all time. Rings as the best guy don't count for everything, I know, but the lack of production from the other guys in that area makes it a pretty decent argument.

Not bad for a gangly kid from Spain with hoop dreams.

???

[LeHeat_Dynasty]

Please do not derail the thread by comparing Gasol among some of the All Time greats. To bring things up to speed, I was merely showing Pau's value in his team. Almost any other Laker (Kobe included, with all due respect to the leader of the team). It is not to say, Gasol is a better player than Kobe, but its a testament to how versatile and valuable Pau has been for the Lakers even moreso than the 2x Finals MVP.


Gasol is their best rebounder, best defender, most efficient scorer and probably the smartest player on board. Now, can Pau Gasol lead the Lakers to a championship as the first option? Of course not but pair him with say Wade, Lebron or Pierce, Iwith the same group and they absolutley bring a title to LA. Now, can Kobe and either of Gasol's contemporaries also lead the Lakers to a championship? Without using any sort of bias here, I honestly don't believe so.


Kobe is a HOF, an all time great and one of the games best. I would even say he would probably rank behind Magic Johnson when all is said and done as LA's best. But there's something really wrong with how the media or fans are valuing Kobe at this point.

[Giuseppe]

But there's something really wrong with how the media or fans are valuing Kobe at this point.

After waiting two years for Bryant to fail they finally threw up their hands in disgust and dipped their respective beaks.

Orlando was forgiveable, but, Media thought they had it in the bag at 3-2, even going back to California. They had tried talking Artest out of it for 9 months.

Uh, uh.

[picc84]

Please do not derail the thread by comparing Gasol among some of the All Time greats. To bring things up to speed, I was merely showing Pau's value in his team. Almost any other Laker (Kobe included, with all due respect to the leader of the team). It is not to say, Gasol is a better player than Kobe, but its a testament to how versatile and valuable Pau has been for the Lakers even moreso than the 2x Finals MVP.


Gasol is their best rebounder, best defender, most efficient scorer and probably the smartest player on board. Now, can Pau Gasol lead the Lakers to a championship as the first option? Of course not but pair him with say Wade, Lebron or Pierce, Iwith the same group and they absolutley bring a title to LA. Now, can Kobe and either of Gasol's contemporaries also lead the Lakers to a championship? Without using any sort of bias here, I honestly don't believe so.


Kobe is a HOF, an all time great and one of the games best. I would even say he would probably rank behind Magic Johnson when all is said and done as LA's best. But there's something really wrong with how the media or fans are valuing Kobe at this point.



The thread question is disingenuous though. Because it'd be more accurate to ask if Gasol can win with another SG other than Kobe, as Pau was the driving force behind the lakers championships.

And the answer, as you know, is yes. If Pau can win a title with his 2nd best player shooting 6-24, the question really becomes who couldn't he win with? I don't think you have to dip into the reservoir of great players like Lebron and Pierce to make that point.

All Gasol needs is a guy to make some buckets, feed off the defensive attention and double teams he gets, and hold the fort when he goes out for a breather. It doesn't take being Kobe Bryant to shoot 6-24 from the field. Pau can handle that kind of production from a lot of players. And he proved it in the finals.

[Giuseppe]

^It don't hurt being in Los Angeles for 4 of every 7 games because Bryant made it certain when he took those 7 last second wins to heart.

[LeHeat_Dynasty]

The thread question is disingenuous though. Because it'd be more accurate to ask if Gasol can win with another SG other than Kobe, as Pau was the driving force behind the lakers championships.

And the answer, as you know, is yes. If Pau can win a title with his 2nd best player shooting 6-24, the question really becomes who couldn't he win with? I don't think you have to dip into the reservoir of great players like Lebron and Pierce to make that point.

All Gasol needs is a guy to make some buckets, feed off the defensive attention and double teams he gets, and hold the fort when he goes out for a breather. It doesn't take being Kobe Bryant to shoot 6-24 from the field. Pau can handle that kind of production from a lot of players. And he proved it in the finals.


Aye, we can agree on this post. But will you at least agree with me as well in saying Gasol is much more valuable than Kobe given the circumstances provided above?

[picc84]

Son...what the heck do you think i've been talking about in my last 3 posts? The wall street crash of '29?

Let me find out i've just been over here whistlin dixie.

[ButtHurt Committee]

You left her and still go to her for pussy? Yeah, I'm jealous of the over the hill man who's best accomplishment is exposing AEs and still has to go to his ex for pussy. Your just full of fail... :lmao

Your inexperience with women is glaring. I'm not quite sure, were you laughing at yourself in this post?

[Ace]

Your inexperience with women is glaring. I'm not quite sure, were you laughing at yourself in this post?
Your application is being processed.

[namlook]

LOL at this troll tread.

[JamStone]

With Duncan the last two seasons instead of Gasol, the Lakers still win. With Dirk instead of Gasol, I think it might be more difficult but I think they'd still have a good chance at winning both. Bynum would be more valuable defending Orlando and Dwight Howard in 2009. I think Dirk actually would play better than Pau against Boston and especially KG. Chris Bosh instead of Gasol would be even tougher. I actually think they'd still be ok against Denver and Orlando in 2009 but I think Bosh would struggle against Boston. Amare instead of Gasol would be much more difficult for the Lakers. They'd still contend but I wouldn't bet money that they win either title.

[Giuseppe]

Duncan is inert.

That's it, and that's all.

[Koolaid_Man]

An interesting tidbit..

Kobe won back 2 back without Shaq and 3 titles in all without Gasol...lol

http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a68/Koolbreezey/wilttoKobe-1.jpg

[Giuseppe]

Testify, Brother Kool, testify!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!