Wilson Chandler rumored to Spurs

[Blackjack]

Chandler's the better get in terms of value and player, Rush is a better fit for the immediate.

I was thinking about players (non-stars/role-players) I'd like or love to have -- just in terms of fit and not necessarily attainable -- so add any I may leave off. Let's see just how many players there are out there that could possibly, hypothetically, give the Spurs what they need (perimeter D and 3-point shot).

Off the top of my head:

Webster
Batum
Ariza
Pietrus
Rush
D. Greene
C. Brewer
Posey
Battier
D. Wright
B. Walker (?)
D. Brown (?)

Who else?

[Blackjack]

I couldn't get Rush's hotzones chart to pull up on nba.com, couldn't get any individual players to come up. I wonder how he did from the corners. I know he shot over 40% for all 2010 but the corners are what counts.

Had the same problem yesterday and it continues today. Not sure what's up.

[rick1991]

Chandler's the better get in terms of value and player, Rush is a better fit for the immediate.

I was thinking about players (non-stars/role-players) I'd like or love to have -- just in terms of fit and not necessarily attainable -- so add any I may leave off. Let's see just how many players there are out there that could possibly, hypothetically, give the Spurs what they need (perimeter D and 3-point shot).

Off the top of my head:

Webster
Batum
Ariza
Pietrus
Rush
D. Greene
C. Brewer
Posey
Battier
D. Wright
B. Walker (?)
D. Brown (?)

Who else?

Austin Daye... AKA Tayshaun Prince 2.0

[mountainballer]

first pre season game didn't really dissipate doubts about Spurs athletic ability on the perimeter.
some can't move any more (Simmons), some didn't even start to move (Anderson) and those who can move (Gist, Temple) can't play.
so, a trade for a player like Chandler doesn't look like a less reasonable idea, than it looked the day before.
(same goes for Rush, if this ever was a realistic option)

[elemento]

We should try to get Brewer from Minny.

He would be perfect for us. Great size (6"9), athletic and a good defender. Last season his 3p shooting dropped a bit, but in 2009 he had a good % (41,7%). I don't think we would have to give up too much for him.

What you guys think ?

[mountainballer]

I think that about 90% of the people here know more about the player you try to showcase than you do.
btw. 41% 3s isn't a good % when the player is shooting less than 1 time per game. the reason why he didn't shoot 3s was, that he just can't shoot. he couldn't in college and he couldn't in the NBA.
yes, he would help in some other departments.
but he isn't on the block anyhow, so why speculate.
and why don't we have to give up much for him??? because teams urgently want to get rid of young players on cheap rookie contracts, who finally start to show some promise?
let's talk about players, who are available and who are realistic options to get with our assets.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

We should try to get Brewer from Minny.

He would be perfect for us. Great size (6"9), athletic and a good defender. Last season his 3p shooting dropped a bit, but in 2009 he had a good % (41,7%). I don't think we would have to give up too much for him.

What you guys think ?

Would cost us Blair/Hill + picks, unlikely to happen IMO.

[elemento]

Would cost us Blair/Hill + picks, unlikely to happen IMO.

he is in the last year of his contract and Minny is full of wings. I'm not sure it would cost us that much.

i just speculated about him because Minny fans were speculating about trading him in other basket forum.

The problem is: there isn't a perfect player for us considering our assets and the available players.

Anyway ..i just miss Bruce Bowen. We won't find another one. I just hope RJ can improve at least a little bit this season.

[8FOR!3]

he is in the last year of his contract and Minny is full of wings. I'm not sure it would cost us that much.

i just speculated about him because Minny fans were speculating about trading him in other basket forum.

The problem is: there isn't a perfect player for us considering our assets and the available players.

Anyway ..i just miss Bruce Bowen. We won't find another one. I just hope RJ can improve at least a little bit this season.

http://www.loopnet.com/Attachments/A/2/7/xy_A274D3CA-FF9C-4CCB-B19D-41FFE822B534__.jpg ???

[SenorSpur]

We should try to get Brewer from Minny.

He would be perfect for us. Great size (6"9), athletic and a good defender. Last season his 3p shooting dropped a bit, but in 2009 he had a good % (41,7%). I don't think we would have to give up too much for him.

What you guys think ?

Come on man. What's the point of filling a need, yet creating another one (or two) in the process? It's counterproductive - akin to cutting off your nose to spite your face.

[ace3g]

Concerned About Chandler, Knicks Still Like Rudy

The Knicks are concerned about using Wilson Chandler as their starting shooting guard and they remain interested in Portland's Rudy Fernandez.

The New York Post reports that the Knicks won't increase their offer for Fernandez, but they will listen if the Trail Blazers call about a trade.

Knicks coach Mike D'Antoni is reportedly considering moving Amar'e Stoudemire to center, moving Chandler to power forward and starting Roger Mason at shooting guard.


Read more: http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/69550/20101013/concerned_about_chandler_knicks_still_like_rudy/#ixzz12IRtb5T4

[ajballer4]

Concerned About Chandler, Knicks Still Like Rudy

The Knicks are concerned about using Wilson Chandler as their starting shooting guard and they remain interested in Portland's Rudy Fernandez.

The New York Post reports that the Knicks won't increase their offer for Fernandez, but they will listen if the Trail Blazers call about a trade.

Knicks coach Mike D'Antoni is reportedly considering moving Amar'e Stoudemire to center, moving Chandler to power forward and starting Roger Mason at shooting guard.


Read more: http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/69550/20101013/concerned_about_chandler_knicks_still_like_rudy/#ixzz12IRtb5T4

:lol
What a joke.

[objective]

Mason is having a terrible pre-season in NY, shooting 25% against NBA competition.

Chandler looked okay tonight, not afraid to take and make threes.

[timtonymanu]

:lol
What a joke.

Does D'Antoni still think Mason is the same player from 08-09?

[HarlemHeat37]

It's only preseason, but Will's 3-point shot looks improved..

[Flux451]

All the butt slapping in the past has tainted Mike's mind.

[mountainballer]

Concerned About Chandler, Knicks Still Like Rudy

The Knicks are concerned about using Wilson Chandler as their starting shooting guard and they remain interested in Portland's Rudy Fernandez.

The New York Post reports that the Knicks won't increase their offer for Fernandez, but they will listen if the Trail Blazers call about a trade.

Knicks coach Mike D'Antoni is reportedly considering moving Amar'e Stoudemire to center, moving Chandler to power forward and starting Roger Mason at shooting guard.


Read more: http://realgm.com/src_wiretap_archives/69550/20101013/concerned_about_chandler_knicks_still_like_rudy/#ixzz12IRtb5T4

Knicks obviously gamble on this. considering all the reports from the last weeks, Blazers want a 1st rounder for Rudy, Knicks could get that 1st rounder from the Spurs for Chandler, Knicks don't pull the trigger because they hope they can finally get Rudy for 2nd rounders. some more financial aspects might be involved, b/c Spurs will try to avoid to get over the threshold.
maybe an important factor as well: Blazers might not want to help the Spurs by such a scenario, as they see them self pretty much on the same level among West teams and see the Spurs as possible PO opponent. they are one of those teams, that might benefit the most from a weak perimeter defense of the Spurs and for sure they don't like the picture of Chandler guarding Batum or Roy.

however:
IMO Chandler to the Spurs would be the move that could put the Spurs on another level. Chandler obviously is healthy again and his shot looks much improved. Spurs should be prepared to offer even more than just the 1st rounder.

[SenorSpur]

however:
IMO Chandler to the Spurs would be the move that could put the Spurs on another level. Chandler obviously is healthy again and his shot looks much improved. Spurs should be prepared to offer even more than just the 1st rounder.

This ^

[elemento]

What could we offer to get Chandler? I don't think it's a good idea to offer more than a 1st round pick since it's a 1-year rental.

[Ditty]

Yah I'm pretty sure if there is a real deal in place. I'm pretty sure its on the spurs because of course there taking that one year rental in consideration, and lose him this summer with no 1st rounder or they don't pull the trigger keep there 1st round pick, and I don't know too much about chandlers contract situation, but go hard at him with the MLE next summer, but of course every year not won is another year wasted for the big 3 together, so if they want to win then they will do it, but will evaluate at the trade deadline and see if spurs think they can with the team they already have.

[jiggy_55]

Are we seriously still talking about this? It was a stupid rumor by a source that has no credibility what so ever.

Wilson Chandler is not coming to the Spurs now, please forget about it.

[quentin_compson]

Boy, Mike D'Antoni is still as stupid as he used to be. :lol

[SenorSpur]

What could we offer to get Chandler? I don't think it's a good idea to offer more than a 1st round pick since it's a 1-year rental.

Agree. 1st round pick or bust.

[yavozerb]

Are we seriously still talking about this? It was a stupid rumor by a source that has no credibility what so ever.

Wilson Chandler is not coming to the Spurs now, please forget about it.

:toast

[DesignatedT]

lol knicks. lol hiring dantoni.

[dunkman]

When the Lakers need to contend, they get Fisher for nothing, Ariza for a scrub, Gasol for a scrub and proyects to maybe be good players in 5-6 years. When they need to unload an overpaid scrub, inmediately someone takes Radman for MLE with 4-5 years left, they even get a backup PG in the process.

And "do it" Mitch is such a genius that he traded Caron Butler to sign Kwame for $27M.

I'm not talking about getting feed by the golden spoon only like the Lakers, if the reports are true with the first roudner the Spurs are offering a fair value for Chandler, but unfortunately few teams help the Spurs.

I can't imagine the Spurs getting by "trades" 1 franchise player, 2 starters and unloading a bad contract - all that during only one season.

[Sean Cagney]

Why is this rumor thread still up when we all knew notta would come out of it?

[Juanobili]

jeez Robert Mason Jr starting SG for Amar'e's team? I'd be pissed LOL

[SenorSpur]

I wouldn't be so sure about that. I'd be willing to bet the Spurs are the "mystery team" that has the unspoken deal with the Knicks to deal a 1st round pick to them. It's just like the Spurs to swear the Knicks to secrecy. I wouldn't write this trade off just yet.

[G-Dawgg]

..damn.....we'd be right back in the title hunt again......

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

www.twitter.com/incarceratedbob (http://www.twitter.com/incarceratedbob)

This dude has been right before, so:

"Ok after the Yankess news - I am working on Knicks rumored trade of Wilson Chandler to Spurs - Nothing done yet but man is it getting hot"

"Im gathering all the info i can but right now the Spurs are giving Knicks the option to use them in any Melo deal. Nothing done"


would be great theres your sf but where does he fit with rj?!

Exactly.

Fucking RJ.

It would be hilarious (but not in a franchise-retarding way) if they pull off this trade, work out that Chandler is imminently more suited to the Spurs system than RJ, then have to eat RJ's contract for the next 3 years! :lmao :vomit:

Actually, to be fair, maybe Wilson Chandler concentrating on being the number one perimeter defender would free RJ up to play a scoring role off the bench which he's actually suited to. Still they are paying RJ about the same as Maggette. :lol

:lmao

[TheSpursFNRule]

ok guys this isn't gonna happen....

[MaNu4Tres]

Exactly.

Fucking RJ.

It would be hilarious (but not in a franchise-retarding way) if they pull off this trade, work out that Chandler is imminently more suited to the Spurs system than RJ, then have to eat RJ's contract for the next 3 years! :lmao :vomit:
Still they are paying RJ about the same as Maggette. :lol

:lmao


Is that the best material you can come up with? I mean seriously? Is it?


"Fuck RJ."

"RJ is Gay."


"I hate his contract (even though I'm blind when it comes to actually seeing and understanding the financial situation the Spurs are in now and the future.)"


I'm just asking because that's the only "knowledgeable" take you've contributed to this board for the past 6 months.

Getting pretty old bud.

I thought you contributed more to this board. Then again I can be wrong at times.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

Is that the best material you can come up with? I mean seriously? Is it?


"Fuck RJ."

"RJ is Gay."


"I hate his contract (even though I'm blind when it comes to actually seeing and understanding the financial situation the Spurs are in now and the future.)"


I'm just asking because that's the only "knowledgeable" take you've contributed to this board for the past 6 months.

Getting pretty old bud.

I thought you contributed more to this board. Then again I can be wrong at times.

I don't use homophobic slurs, I abhor them, so don't conflate what other people say with my stance.

Did you read the RJ thread? Before I read this, I just lauded your post there and replied to it and others at length. I hope that better addresses your objections.

BTW, it's Friday night here, I'm drinking and relaxing and not taking life too seriously right now. In the last 6 months my life focus has shifted somewhat and I'm not around so much. I'm waiting for the season to begin, then maybe my insight will pick up. Not promising anything though. :lmao :drunk: :smokin

[objective]

I don't use homophobic slurs, I abhor them, so don't conflate what other people say with my stance.

Did you read the RJ thread? Before I read this, I just lauded your post there and replied to it and others at length. I hope that better addresses your objections.

BTW, it's Friday night here, I'm drinking and relaxing and not taking life too seriously right now. In the last 6 months my life focus has shifted somewhat and I'm not around so much. I'm waiting for the season to begin, then maybe my insight will pick up. Not promising anything though. :lmao :drunk: :smokin

I think I've seen more accusations of RJ critics using gay slurs than I've actually seen RJ critics using gay slurs in the last week, almost like a distraction technique.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

I think I've seen more accusations of RJ critics using gay slurs than I've actually seen RJ critics using gay slurs in the last week, almost like a distraction technique.

Classic internet debating. Strawman argument.

One thing I will always object to is people putting words in my mouth. I am usually (not always) very specific about what I say, but it's common for people to generalise with their own interpretation and take things to extremes, ignoring what I actually said, in order to "win the argument". We should all strive to be better than that... or at least funnier! :smokin :lmao

[benefactor]

"I hate his contract (even though I'm blind when it comes to actually seeing and understanding the financial situation the Spurs are in now and the future.)"

Let's say the Spurs did trade for Chandler. Would it be a safe assumption to say that the Spurs could potentially lose him because they could not afford to match an offer sheet that he signs with another team this summer?

[temujin]

Let's say the Spurs did trade for Chandler. Would it be a safe assumption to say that the Spurs could potentially lose him because they could not afford to match an offer sheet that he signs with another team this summer?

As safe as assuming they could lose Parker and, because of this and the rapidly degrading knees of Duncan, this is the last season they have a vaguely remote chance of winning it all.

[yavozerb]

Let's say the Spurs did trade for Chandler. Would it be a safe assumption to say that the Spurs could potentially lose him because they could not afford to match an offer sheet that he signs with another team this summer?

I think when trading for a player all positives and negatives of the trade need to be evaluated. One of the negatives of such a trade I believe is that he believes he is worth more $ than the spurs believe he is worth (which is usualy the case with the spurs) and therefore would get better offers from other teams.

[ChuckD]

Let's say the Spurs did trade for Chandler. Would it be a safe assumption to say that the Spurs could potentially lose him because they could not afford to match an offer sheet that he signs with another team this summer?

Well, I doubt ANYONE will be signing an offer sheet during the lockout, but yes, he would likely be a rental, between RJ's contract, and Parker's prospective new one, whenever contract signings resume.

[benefactor]

I think when trading for a player all positives and negatives of the trade need to be evaluated. One of the negatives of such a trade I believe is that he believes he is worth more $ than the spurs believe he is worth (which is usualy the case with the spurs) and therefore would get better offers from other teams.
Him getting re-signed would be more tied to the Spurs cap situation than it would be perceived worth.

[benefactor]

Well, I doubt ANYONE will be signing an offer sheet during the lockout, but yes, he would likely be a rental, between RJ's contract, and Parker's prospective new one, whenever contract signings resume.
:tu

Exactly.

[ChuckD]

:tu

Exactly.


Well, I doubt ANYONE will be signing an offer sheet during the lockout, but yes, he would likely be a rental, between RJ's contract, and Parker's prospective new one, whenever contract signings resume.

Don't overlook that second part. If anything, that will be the cause, not RJ's.

[benefactor]

So wiping away 9 million would not help?

[MaNu4Tres]

Let's say the Spurs did trade for Chandler. Would it be a safe assumption to say that the Spurs could potentially lose him because they could not afford to match an offer sheet that he signs with another team this summer?



They could certainly lose him, unless Spurs make a hypothetical trade ( like the one your presenting) to make room to match the offer under the new luxury tax; or unless Holt and his investors decided to go a little into the luxury tax for another season (little as in 4-5 million into the luxury--costing them 8-10 million--if all holds true in the new CBA). In all honesty, the only way it would be smart to retain him is if he's significantly better than what they have right now; which right now is questionable because both have relatively the same skill-set. If he's not significantly better than what the Spurs have already-- I'd simply let him walk--Spurs do own a first round pick next year where they can address the back up 3 spot if they need to and they'll still have Anderson developing. So it's not such of a dilemma as you are implying if Chandler is "so-so", which could most likely be the case because he's not a very efficient player to stand out on a limited 15-20 minute role.

On the other hand of the hypothetical scenario:

If he is significantly better than what the Spurs have, then Spurs will be put in a great position to win this year. And if they do win and Chandler makes a significant contribution, then I think Holt would try retain him by going a little into the luxury tax just for his first year (the guy loves to win-- and that is his ultimate goal). Especially considering the fact that him and his investors did save 25 million this past season when they solidified the huge whole at SF by agreeing with RJ under the table. If this is the hypothetical scenario that plays out-- then I think Spurs would try to cut corners in finances-- such as trading their 1st round pick for a future 1st round pick--trading Bonner or trading Anderson. Which wouldn't be so bad if it meant retaining a hypothetical important piece for a championship.

[ohmwrecker]

I think I've seen more accusations of RJ critics using gay slurs than I've actually seen RJ critics using gay slurs in the last week, almost like a distraction technique.

It's certainly cooled down (mostly, I assume, because Kori groused about it), but are you shitting me? There were whole threads dedicated to "RJ is gay". Please. You are better than that. Just because it hasn't happened as much this week doesn't mean it didn't happen. I'm not against a joke or two, if it's funny, but it was beaten to death and used in legitimate arguments. I had gay insinuations directed at me when I defended RJ.
GTFO.


Classic internet debating. Strawman argument.

It's not a "strawman argument" if it actually happened. In fact, using "RJ is gay" in a real discussion is more of a strawman. You guys use this term way too often to not know what it means.

[yavozerb]

What exactly is a strawman arguement? Just wondering since I too have been called this for crossing the "Bonner/RJ haters".

[FuzzyLumpkins]

What exactly is a strawman arguement? Just wondering since I too have been called this for crossing the "Bonner/RJ haters".

Its claiming someone made an argument that you did not in fact make. Instead of arguing what a person actually said, you make up something else (a strawman) and argue that instead. Typically its something easy to discredit.

RuffNReady never actually said that RJ was gay. Someone else may have but he did not. You claim he did so anyway and argue that. Its kind of blurred in a forum of 100 people.

Its been said by the antiRJ camp a lot.

[Bruno]

With the training camp ending, I think that it isn't the right time to do a trade.

Spurs first need to evaluate what they really have. It looks like James Anderson has a good training camp considering that he came from a big injury and hadn't played a game for 6 months. It's possible that in a couple of months Anderson will be good enough to fill the backup SF spot. Spurs also need to evaluate if Blair and Splitter are good enough that they can give up McDyess or Boner in a trade. Fixing the backup SF problem would be moot if it creates a hole in the frontcourt.

[yavozerb]

Its claiming someone made an argument that you did not in fact make. Instead of arguing what a person actually said, you make up something else (a strawman) and argue that instead. Typically its something easy to discredit.

RuffNReady never actually said that RJ was gay. Someone else may have but he did not. You claim he did so anyway and argue that. Its kind of blurred in a forum of 100 people.

Its been said by the antiRJ camp a lot.

Thanks...

[SenorSpur]

With the training camp ending, I think that it isn't the right time to do a trade.

Spurs first need to evaluate what they really have. It looks like James Anderson has a good training camp considering that he came from a big injury and hadn't played a game for 6 months. It's possible that in a couple of months Anderson will be good enough to fill the backup SF spot. Spurs also need to evaluate if Blair and Splitter are good enough that they can give up McDyess or Boner in a trade. Fixing the backup SF problem would be moot if it creates a hole in the frontcourt.

It wouldn't be moot if all the Spurs needed to give up was a 1st round pick.

[Biggems]

well to be honest, RJ is probably gay...and you would be too, if you were able to sign a multi million dollar contract for a legit contender and play with 2-3 future HOFers and a future HOF coach. plus he gets to live in such a low key city, where he can come and go as he pleases without being hassled by the masses at every turn. Yep, RJ is as gay as a beastly looking fellow who scores a swimsuit model girlfriend. You just cannot measure that kind of gayness.

[Bruno]

It wouldn't be moot if all the Spurs needed to give up was a 1st round pick.

I rather wait a little to see how good Anderson is before throwing away a lot of money and a great asset to get Chandler.

[MaNu4Tres]

I rather wait a little to see how good Anderson is before throwing away a lot of money and a great asset to get Chandler.

:tu

[Obstructed_View]

Don't overlook that second part. If anything, that will be the cause, not RJ's.

If Chandler gets more than RJ, then you can bump this post and we can discuss it some more.

For Parker's contract, you get Parker in his prime, and signing him is a foregone conclusion; there's no way you DON'T sign Parker if you have an opportunity. The Spurs spent more money on RJ to have him for three extra years rather than have him as an expiring this season and they still don't know if he can be effective with this team. So the difference between the two contracts is huge.

[SenorSpur]

I rather wait a little to see how good Anderson is before throwing away a lot of money and a great asset to get Chandler.

It doesn't matter how good Anderson is or will be, he's likely NOT going to transform himself into an above-average defender - which Chandler most certainly is.

Normally, I would agree with your point about taking a wait-and-see approach. However, we know the Spurs are playing for THIS year.

I've been a strong advocate of retaining assets, like 1st round picks -especially when you're burning them for older players. Because of their perennial draft position, the Spurs have not been able secure a talented SF-type in the past few drafts, dating back to the Batum miss. If they can get a young, athletic, SF now, and all it would cost is next year's 1st, count me in.

[anonoftheinternets]

It doesn't matter how good Anderson is or will be, he's likely NOT going to transform himself into an above-average defender - which Chandler most certainly is.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chandwi01.html
Wilson Chandler - his best defensive rating in the last three years is 110 and above .. while RJ's worst in his entire career is 112 once and 110 once. Last year when he sucked his rating was 106.

Not saying RJ is good, but WC sucks.

[ChumpDumper]

It wouldn't be moot if all the Spurs needed to give up was a 1st round pick.How would that possibly be all they needed to give up?

[SenorSpur]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chandwi01.html
Wilson Chandler - his best defensive rating in the last three years is 110 and above .. while RJ's worst in his entire career is 112 once and 110 once. Last year when he sucked his rating was 106.

Not saying RJ is good, but WC sucks.

Sobering info.

[lefty]

12 pages on Wilson Chandler :lmao

[ChumpDumper]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chandwi01.html
Wilson Chandler - his best defensive rating in the last three years is 110 and above .. while RJ's worst in his entire career is 112 once and 110 once. Last year when he sucked his rating was 106.

Not saying RJ is good, but WC sucks.It's a strange mania that strikes spurfan when presented with the possibility of acquiring a player 6'7" or taller. The NBA player is always a better defender when he is on another team.

[MaNu4Tres]

It's a strange mania that strikes spurfan when presented with the possibility of acquiring a player 6'7" or taller. The NBA player is always a better defender when he is on another team.

:lol

Ain't that the truth.

[SenorSpur]

Pop and RC are both on record as indicating how the Spurs have needed to "get better" defensively at that position. When a team is as poor defensively on the perimeter and woefully "unathletic" as the Spurs have been at that spot, it's easy to understand the fascination with a young, athletic, SF.

[objective]

fwiw, Brandon Rush has fallen out of the Pacer rotation (http://www.indystar.com/article/20101015/SPORTS04/10150354/Out-of-rotation-out-of-sync)


"We have three guys -- Mike, Danny and Paul -- who are our top three guys at the wing spots," O'Brien said. "Unless something happens, he's going to have to find a way to move above those three guys in order to get the type of playing time he got in the past."

On a related note, the Pacers are reported by their beat guy (http://twitter.com/MikeWellsNBA/status/27370634471) to be trying to dump a two for one to get the roster to 15, speculation amongst the fans is that it's to keep Magnum Rolle. The two reported to be offered around the league are Dahntay Jones and Solomon Jones. Obviously neither of those two are worthwhile with DJ being a zero-threat from long range.

But if Rush is out and they want to trim the roster?

Rush if extended before the end of October wouldn't be a one-year rental. And he can stick the 3. And likes to party.

[ChumpDumper]

Pop and RC are both on record as indicating how the Spurs have needed to "get better" defensively at that position. When a team is as poor defensively on the perimeter and woefully "unathletic" as the Spurs have been at that spot, it's easy to understand the fascination with a young, athletic, SF.It's also easy to understand how such a player can be automatically overrated here as well.

[objective]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/c/chandwi01.html
Wilson Chandler - his best defensive rating in the last three years is 110 and above .. while RJ's worst in his entire career is 112 once and 110 once. Last year when he sucked his rating was 106.

Not saying RJ is good, but WC sucks.

Okay, I looked it up.

Unsurprisingly, Chandler's been on terrible defensive teams. The Knicks as a team have had DRtgs the past three seasons as 4th worst last year, 8th worst in 09, and 2nd worst in 08 as a rookie.

RJ's teams the last 5 years have been going backwards 8th, 15th, 20th, 15th, and 3rd. As an aside, the Spurs starting in 06 until last year were 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th (1st year without Bowen as the main guy) and 8th.

And a further look at the numbers:

Chandler's rating each of the last 3 years has been worse than his team's in 10, but slightly better than his team's rating in 09 and 08.

RJ's rating each of the last 5 years has been worse than his team's rating.

What are we to make of that?

What would RJ's rating be on these Knicks teams?

EDIT : fixed the numbers, got WC's 10-stats wrong.

EDIT 2 : Mixed up Bowen's retirement with his demotion by Pop

[SenorSpur]

It's also easy to understand how such a player can be automatically overrated here as well.

Touche'

Point taken.

[HarlemHeat37]

The Spurs were 2 points better defensively with Jefferson on the floor last year..he obviously benefited from spending time with the best Spurs lineups for most of the season..

The Knicks were 5 points worse defensively with Chandler off the floor, which was #1 on their team, better than Jeffries, the player with the best defensive reputation on the team..

Using defensive ratings to compare perimeter defenders when their teams are levels apart defensively doesn't make any sense..defensive rating is a team stat more than any other advanced stat..

I have the scouting stats that show Chandler is a better defender, I'll post them when I get home..

[Bruno]

fwiw, Brandon Rush has fallen out of the Pacer rotation (http://www.indystar.com/article/20101015/SPORTS04/10150354/Out-of-rotation-out-of-sync)


I would rather trade Jerrells+Temple+Gee for Rush than the same package and a first round pick for Chandler.

If Spurs do some creative financing than can do this trade for Rush without going over the tax.

[anonoftheinternets]

Okay, I looked it up.

Unsurprisingly, Chandler's been on terrible defensive teams. The Knicks as a team have had DRtgs the past three seasons as 4th worst last year, 8th worst in 09, and 2nd worst in 08 as a rookie.

RJ's teams the last 5 years have been going backwards 8th, 15th, 20th, 15th, and 3rd. As an aside, the Spurs starting in 06 until last year were 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 5th (1st year without Bowen) and 8th.

And a further look at the numbers:

Chandler's rating each of the last 3 years has been worse than his team's in 10, but slightly better than his team's rating in 09 and 08.

RJ's rating each of the last 5 years has been worse than his team's rating.

What are we to make of that?

What would RJ's rating be on these Knicks teams?

EDIT : fixed the numbers, got WC's 10-stats wrong.

ok but what about defensive win shares? W chandler is down in that as well (same link). I knew the bad team argument would pop up. But honestly based on all this, again, im not saying RJ is good, all im saying is WC is not really battier or bowen or even close. So assuming WC is better than RJ, on offense he is not really a knock down shooter and i would still say RJ is hte better offensive player (@ driving and one on one situations). We need a really good Defensive wing player with size and i just feel WC is not that person.

Why should we "settle" for more or less the same RJ (ill even grant slightly better on D and slightly worse on O). I would rather get it right this time, and find a true fit, else change the game plan.

[TD 21]

I would rather trade Jerrells+Temple+Gee for Rush than the same package and a first round pick for Chandler.

If Spurs do some creative financing than can do this trade for Rush without going over the tax.

With his repeated off court problem (I know Chandler got caught once, too), I doubt the Spurs would trade for Rush. At least at this juncture.

Why would the Pacers make that trade? I understand he's somewhat fallen out of favor or worn out his welcome and they have a glut of wings, but he's still young, is a decent player and is inexpensive. Why trade him for three fringe players? Let's face it, it would likely take the 1st round pick to get it done.

If the Spurs view him or someone in that class (Chandler, etc.) as the potential missing piece and as a useful piece going forward, then they should surrender their 1st. This team has four young, talented players now, they'd be acquiring a fifth in the trade and right now, it's more important to improve their chances at winning one last championship in the Duncan era, then holding out hope of landing a decent prospect picking 20-25. People get so caught up in 1st round picks a lot of the time, but in reality, picking where the Spurs are likely to be picking, you're just hoping to get a player like Chandler or Rush. Only, they've already got some experience and don't need to be developed as much.

[objective]

ok but what about defensive win shares? W chandler is down in that as well (same link). I knew the bad team argument would pop up. But honestly based on all this, again, im not saying RJ is good, all im saying is WC is not really battier or bowen or even close. So assuming WC is better than RJ, on offense he is not really a knock down shooter and i would still say RJ is hte better offensive player (@ driving and one on one situations). We need a really good Defensive wing player with size and i just feel WC is not that person.

Why should we "settle" for more or less the same RJ (ill even grant slightly better on D and slightly worse on O). I would rather get it right this time, and find a true fit, else change the game plan.

re: the bolded parts

You posted that WC sucked. I looked at your numbers, dug marginally deeper, and came away completely unconvinced by your own stats, as opposed to finding them sobering.

RJ has played with . . .

A. Better defensive players, especially in the post having his back and even on the wing. Tim Duncan's DRtg numbers are amazing. Andrew Bogut for MIL last year, without even having to look up his numbers, was a good defensive center. Manu Ginobili, statistically by DRtg, I believe was just as good or even better than Bowen.

Who was out there having Chandler's back? David Lee and Danilo Galinari?

B. RJ has had defensive minded coaches who had systems. Pop, Skiles, Frank.

Chandler spent the last two years with D'Antoni. What was he supposed to do?

So no, I don't think anyone is arguing that Chandler is Bowen or Battier.

But is it really such a stretch to think he's an upgrade over RJ defensively?

Shouldn't the Spurs want an upgrade option?

He's not much of an improvement over RJ in the 3pt department, though he's looked good in the games I've watched this pre-season. But unlike RJ, he can play the 4, something RJ either can't or won't, as evidenced by the stories last year about RJ being removed from the role of smallball 4.

I've posted most recently on Chandler that I didn't think it was realistic because he'd be a one year rental, as the Spurs likely wouldn't/couldn't fork out the money to keep him.

But today I was recalling how they dumped 1 first round pick for what at the time was a 1/2 year rental of Kurt Thomas because they were in the desperate 'win now' mode.

Maybe that could happen again?

EDIT: confused the # of picks of the Thomas trade for the Nazr trade, fixed it to only 1 first rounder

[objective]

With his repeated off court problem (I know Chandler got caught once, too), I doubt the Spurs would trade for Rush. At least at this juncture.

Why would the Pacers make that trade? I understand he's somewhat fallen out of favor or worn out his welcome and they have a glut of wings, but he's still young, is a decent player and is inexpensive. Why trade him for three fringe players? Let's face it, it would likely take the 1st round pick to get it done.

If the Spurs view him or someone in that class (Chandler, etc.) as the potential missing piece and as a useful piece going forward, then they should surrender their 1st. This team has four young, talented players now, they'd be acquiring a fifth in the trade and right now, it's more important to improve their chances at winning one last championship in the Duncan era, then holding out hope of landing a decent prospect picking 20-25. People get so caught up in 1st round picks a lot of the time, but in reality, picking where the Spurs are likely to be picking, you're just hoping to get a player like Chandler or Rush. Only, they've already got some experience and don't need to be developed as much.

As for why the Pacers would dump Rush, I don't know. Right now in the media the only player they're trying to dump is Dahntay Jones (I'm not even counting Solomon Jones who is just a fringe roster guy).

Dahntay Jones is more unmovable than Rush with his longer contract, and he hasn't caused Larry Bird any headaches.

Rush has no future in Indiana. Not that they're really keen to keep Dunleavy, but Paul George is the future and Fightin' Lance Stephenson was their most promising, exciting summer leaguer and 2nd round pick until he had to act like Lance Stephenson.

Brandon Rush getting suspended for the 5 games isn't his first offense, I think it's the third time he's been popped. He's not a good enough player for them to jerk around with him.

Getting a first for Rush might be the best they can do.

Not that I'm saying they will dump Rush, I don't even expect them to.

But he's in his coaches doghouse, his GM's doghouse, behind other young players in the rotation, and they've so far refused to decide to pick up his option, unlike their beloved Hibbert.

[SenorSpur]

As for why the Pacers would dump Rush, I don't know. Right now in the media the only player they're trying to dump is Dahntay Jones (I'm not even counting Solomon Jones who is just a fringe roster guy).

Dahntay Jones is more unmovable than Rush with his longer contract, and he hasn't caused Larry Bird any headaches.

Rush has no future in Indiana. Not that they're really keen to keep Dunleavy, but Paul George is the future and Fightin' Lance Stephenson was their most promising, exciting summer leaguer and 2nd round pick until he had to act like Lance Stephenson.

Brandon Rush getting suspended for the 5 games isn't his first offense, I think it's the third time he's been popped. He's not a good enough player for them to jerk around with him.

Getting a first for Rush might be the best they can do.

Not that I'm saying they will dump Rush, I don't even expect them to.

But he's in his coaches doghouse, his GM's doghouse, behind other young players in the rotation, and they've so far refused to decide to pick up his option, unlike their beloved Hibbert.

From Rush to Jones, then drafting George. Honestly, I never understood why the Pacers loaded up on some many wings.

[objective]

I should add, regarding Brandon Rush and the doghouse he's in:

In the article I linked to, Jim O'Brien says that not only is he not in the rotation, but that O'Brien isn't even going to play him in the remaining pre-season games because there's no point in giving him minutes when he's going to be suspended anyway.

Now that's some doghouse. He's only going to be out 5 games, why effectively suspend him for the rest of the pre-season? Wouldn't you want to see his effort and commitment to finish the pre-season?

[TD 21]

As for why the Pacers would dump Rush, I don't know. Right now in the media the only player they're trying to dump is Dahntay Jones (I'm not even counting Solomon Jones who is just a fringe roster guy).

Dahntay Jones is more unmovable than Rush with his longer contract, and he hasn't caused Larry Bird any headaches.

Rush has no future in Indiana. Not that they're really keen to keep Dunleavy, but Paul George is the future and Fightin' Lance Stephenson was their most promising, exciting summer leaguer and 2nd round pick until he had to act like Lance Stephenson.

Brandon Rush getting suspended for the 5 games isn't his first offense, I think it's the third time he's been popped. He's not a good enough player for them to jerk around with him.

Getting a first for Rush might be the best they can do.

Not that I'm saying they will dump Rush, I don't even expect them to.

But he's in his coaches doghouse, his GM's doghouse, behind other young players in the rotation, and they've so far refused to decide to pick up his option, unlike their beloved Hibbert.

I definitely think they'd be open to trading him and I understand why, but at the same time, it's going to take decent value.

Jones was a foolish contract at the time and it's coming back to bite them now. They already had Rush to fill that role, who's younger, cheaper, already better and has a higher upside.

Why would they be keen to keep Dunleavy? If Rush ever matures and George and Stephenson reach their potential, then those three, along with Granger, could form a nice wing rotation. There's good versatility amongst them too, as Granger can play small ball four and Stephenson can play some point (or at least they're going to force him to play some point, it appears).

I agree Rush isn't good enough to jerk them around, but I still think it'll take a 1st round pick to pry him away from the Pacers.

[objective]

I definitely think they'd be open to trading him and I understand why, but at the same time, it's going to take decent value.

Jones was a foolish contract at the time and it's coming back to bite them now. They already had Rush to fill that role, who's younger, cheaper, already better and has a higher upside.

Why would they be keen to keep Dunleavy? If Rush ever matures and George and Stephenson reach their potential, then those three, along with Granger, could form a nice wing rotation. There's good versatility amongst them too, as Granger can play small ball four and Stephenson can play some point (or at least they're going to force him to play some point, it appears).

I agree Rush isn't good enough to jerk them around, but I still think it'll take a 1st round pick to pry him away from the Pacers.

sorry, I thought I was clear enough. They're not keen to keep Dunleavy and it's likely they'll just dump him when his contract is over this summer.

But he is not the reason Rush is in stuck behind in their future plans, Paul George and Rush's poor decisions are. So I was addressing the possibility that when Dunleavy is gone that would free up a spot for Rush, but a bigger consequence instead would free up the starting spot for Paul George.

I agree a first round for Rush would be required, and I think it would be worth it for the Spurs for a number of reasons:

A. He has rookie option for next season and then a QO RFA season, so it wouldn't be a one year rental, but a two year at worst.

B. His drug of choice won't result in any harsher penalties than repeated 5 game suspensions. It's not like one more strike and he's gone for a year or two like what happened with Chris Anderson's harder drugs. The only way his suspensions get worse is if he blows off the league's drug program/rehab lessons.

C. Will the 2011 first rounder be better defensively and as good a three point shooter as Rush? Hard to project when the Spurs will likely be picking in the 20s. James Anderson fell because of an injury preventing workouts, no guarantee someone else falls like that.

D. He's a Kansas guy and can chill with RC and Jr.

[HarlemHeat37]

As I said earlier in the thread, I would prefer Rush to Chandler for this team, he would be a better fit..

While I'm high on Chandler, I don't know if I would give up a 1st round pick for a rental..while Chandler is just as good or better than Jefferson right now, his potential still heavily outweighs his current production..I'm high on him due to his ceiling..I would be excited to get him so that he can work with Pop and the rest of the Spurs for the future, but I don't know how much of a difference he would make right now..

He still has a lot of bad habits right now..he still has to get the D'Antoni and Knicks franchise out of his system..unfortunately, I don't know if the Jefferson and Bonner contracts would allow for a long-term deal(considering all the other circumstances with other players on the team)..

[anonoftheinternets]

re: the bolded parts

You posted that WC sucked. I looked at your numbers, dug marginally deeper, and came away completely unconvinced by your own stats, as opposed to finding them sobering.

RJ has played with . . .

A. Better defensive players, especially in the post having his back and even on the wing. Tim Duncan's DRtg numbers are amazing. Andrew Bogut for MIL last year, without even having to look up his numbers, was a good defensive center. Manu Ginobili, statistically by DRtg, I believe was just as good or even better than Bowen.

Who was out there having Chandler's back? David Lee and Danilo Galinari?

B. RJ has had defensive minded coaches who had systems. Pop, Skiles, Frank.

Chandler spent the last two years with D'Antoni. What was he supposed to do?

So no, I don't think anyone is arguing that Chandler is Bowen or Battier.

But is it really such a stretch to think he's an upgrade over RJ defensively?

Shouldn't the Spurs want an upgrade option?

He's not much of an improvement over RJ in the 3pt department, though he's looked good in the games I've watched this pre-season. But unlike RJ, he can play the 4, something RJ either can't or won't, as evidenced by the stories last year about RJ being removed from the role of smallball 4.

I've posted most recently on Chandler that I didn't think it was realistic because he'd be a one year rental, as the Spurs likely wouldn't/couldn't fork out the money to keep him.

But today I was recalling how they dumped 1 first round pick for what at the time was a 1/2 year rental of Kurt Thomas because they were in the desperate 'win now' mode.

Maybe that could happen again?

EDIT: confused the # of picks of the Thomas trade for the Nazr trade, fixed it to only 1 first rounder

right, the point being, im saying WC is no defensive wiz, and on O he is inferior to RJ, whats the point of getting another slightly better RJ?

all u can say based on RJ having better teammates and WC having worse teammates is possibly he can be better on D on the spurs than he is in NY.

How does that quantify into getting a definite wing stopper the spurs desperately need? All im saying is we need to focus on proven Defensive options. And i dont really see feel the WC move is worth it imo. He is a very ordinary fit on O and not a proven defender on D.

[objective]

right, the point being, im saying WC is no defensive wiz, and on O he is inferior to RJ, whats the point of getting another slightly better RJ?

all u can say based on RJ having better teammates and WC having worse teammates is possibly he can be better on D on the spurs than he is in NY.

How does that quantify into getting a definite wing stopper the spurs desperately need? All im saying is we need to focus on proven Defensive options. And i dont really see feel the WC move is worth it imo. He is a very ordinary fit on O and not a proven defender on D.

he may not be definate, but people are realizing that behind RJ's average/mediocre defense there's cement shoes Bobby Simmons and unproven 6-6 rookie James Anderson. Maybe Anderson becomes the man, but who knows?

So if people are intrigued by conjecture that Chandler, who has some some decent tools plus size, could be available for a 1st and filler, I don't think that's such a bad option. What other defensive options are there on the market? Besides Chandler's name in rumours, there's Fernandez who is no stopper, and Dahntay Jones who can't shoot. And mine and others' hopeful suppositions about Brandon Rush.

That's all that comes to mind.

[objective]

more on Rush:

True to his word, O'Brien didn't even play Rush tonight against the Hornets. 12 guys got minutes, but a DNP-CD for Rush.

[anonoftheinternets]

he may not be definate, but people are realizing that behind RJ's average/mediocre defense there's cement shoes Bobby Simmons and unproven 6-6 rookie James Anderson. Maybe Anderson becomes the man, but who knows?

So if people are intrigued by conjecture that Chandler, who has some some decent tools plus size, could be available for a 1st and filler, I don't think that's such a bad option. What other defensive options are there on the market? Besides Chandler's name in rumours, there's Fernandez who is no stopper, and Dahntay Jones who can't shoot. And mine and others' hopeful suppositions about Brandon Rush.

That's all that comes to mind.

right, the only reason i was skeptical about WC was, i dint want a drew gooden repeat, where it was a one year rental and would slow down Andersons progress. If it was someone who was definitely a stopper i would be all for it, or even making RJ his backup :).

But at this point i think i feel all the fuss over a 1 year rental whose defense is only potential at this point is *not worth it. Especially since there are some signs from Anderson that he might be up to handling the backup 3 spot.

edit - correction - Freudian slip :lol .

[objective]

more on Rush:

True to his word, O'Brien didn't even play Rush tonight against the Hornets. 12 guys got minutes, but a DNP-CD for Rush.

more specifically, Granger sprained his ankle and sat the second half, and Rush still didn't get minutes.

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

It's certainly cooled down (mostly, I assume, because Kori groused about it), but are you shitting me? There were whole threads dedicated to "RJ is gay". Please. You are better than that. Just because it hasn't happened as much this week doesn't mean it didn't happen. I'm not against a joke or two, if it's funny, but it was beaten to death and used in legitimate arguments. I had gay insinuations directed at me when I defended RJ.
GTFO.

It's not a "strawman argument" if it actually happened. In fact, using "RJ is gay" in a real discussion is more of a strawman. You guys use this term way too often to not know what it means.

I have never used a gay slur against RJ, that was my point to Manu. I shouldn't be grouped with the fools who do.

As for a strawman, it is a misrepresentation of someone else's position to make a point, which is exactly what Manu did by implying that I used gay slurs against RJ.

[thispego]

imvo you can use gay as a cutdown because being gay is most certainly a negative thing

[dunkman]

Unfortunately the FO plan to divide the MLE between Splitter and the wing defender wasn't succeful. True to be said, Barnes and Jones signed for less money than the $2.4M / year that the Spurs can offer and Raja Bell signed for not much more than that.

Chandler would be a nice addition for the post-Duncan era, since quality SF's are difficult to get with lower first round picks. However, the Spurs already have RJ signed for 4 seasons and Pop isn't as good as Riley or Brown in taking a wing defender to another level, so it's not a sure bet Chandler will make all-defensive teams with the Spurs if he didn't already.

The Spurs have some holes in the roster, as evidenced by the vulnerability to the Suns P&R offense. Splitter may help there in the switch P&R defense and perhaps Anderson or Neal can pass trough the screens better than Hill. Parker will make more offensive pressure over Nash, and they lost Amare, plus Nash is one year older. In the end most teams have some deficiencies, even the Celtics with 3 of 4 star players being old. The Spurs don't really lack talent and Hill is good defensive player.

After this season, the Spurs will have various options. Prince and Battier are free agents. Dice will retire apparently, which would open financial possibilities to sing one of those players.

[Obstructed_View]

Pop should offer Bowen an assistant coach job.

[ohmwrecker]

I have never used a gay slur against RJ, that was my point to Manu. I shouldn't be grouped with the fools who do.

As for a strawman, it is a misrepresentation of someone else's position to make a point, which is exactly what Manu did by implying that I used gay slurs against RJ.

I took his comment as more of a general complaint and that is how I intended mine, mostly. I really don't have a problem with jokes if they are funny, but to attempt to derail someone's argument by essentially becoming an "lol gay" troll is cheap.
I appreciate that you are able to discuss the issue without resorting to the tactic.
I know exactly what a strawman is and it is often overused and incorrectly defined on this board. If it was a general statement about "RJ haters" using gay slurs in arguments it's not a strawman. A strawman, as a debate tactic, is used to derail an opponent by arguing a tangent to their point. If it is successful your opponent will lose his train of thought and argue the tangent as well. At which point, you can go back to your point to "win" the debate. It's a simple diversion and only works on a weak opponent.
For our purposes, it is usually the weak opponent who uses the strawman because they are ill equipped to argue on topic.

[Mal]

I really dont want to dig whole 14 pages, so can someone tell me what is this trade status for now ? Only a rumour or something actually going on ?

[Leetonidas]

Rumor, no real concrete evidence the Spurs are even talking to the Knicks about him. Brandon Rush seems more likely.

[ChuckD]

Rumor, no real concrete evidence the Spurs are even talking to the Knicks about him. Brandon Rush seems more likely.

Actually, neither of them seems remotely likely to me. I think the roster will be constituted from a subset of the players now signed.

[TheSpursFNRule]

will you guys shut the fuck up already?

[Blackjack]

will you guys shut the fuck up already?

Commie.

[TheSpursFNRule]

Commie.

You don't think its a little much to keep this thread going? Its like leaving an empty popsicle box in the freezer, you get excited because something might be in there but in the end its just nothing.
:toast

[Blackjack]

You don't think its a little much to keep this thread going? Its like leaving an empty popsicle box in the freezer, you get excited because something might be in there but in the end its just nothing.
:toast

It's a thread existing because it has to do with the one thing that may be keepin the Spurs from getting another title: wing defender.

Many of the threads here start from something that evolves. If it keeps going, it's because there are people here that keep it going. There's a point of contention or the topic is pressing enough to keep it going.

It's a message board. Some of the best reading is nonsense. :hat

[mountainballer]

It's a thread existing because it has to do with the one thing that may be keepin the Spurs from getting another title: wing defender.

Many of the threads here start from something that evolves. If it keeps going, it's because there are people here that keep it going. There's a point of contention or the topic is pressing enough to keep it going.

It's a message board. Some of the best reading is nonsense. :hat

this.
and maybe our friends from the "we will keep this forum clean from insubstantial threads" force may have noticed that currently on the first 5 pages of ST there isn't a single other thread about the Spurs need of a wing defender, when usually there a 5 such threads on the very first page of the ST forum. well, maybe b/c some of this has been discussed in here.

however.
if Chandler maybe has been on the market for a (late) 1st rounder a month ago, he likely isn't any longer, or (more likely) his price now is significantely higher. for those who didn't notice: he looks great this preseason, probably the 2nd best player on the Knicks behind Amare. and considering the latest reports that Azubuike will be out for some more months, Knicks also have one more reason to keep him.

so, back to the other obvious options.
Rush is on his way out of Indy. my guess is, the Pacers just want a pick back and are waiting for the best offer. a 1st rounder will do it. interested teams likely only offer 2nd rounders. I would take the risk and offer the 2011 1st rounder, if the Pacers send back also their 2nd rounder. (I assume this will be somewhere between 33 and 38)

the other one is Dahntay Jones. yes, not very intriguing. still and upgrade over our defensive options for the perimeter. and even if he is 2 inches smaller than Simmons (and exactly the same size like Anderson) he would be a better solution to defend SFs than Simmons and Anderson will be.

[TD 21]

this.
and maybe our friends from the "we will keep this forum clean from insubstantial threads" force may have noticed that currently on the first 5 pages of ST there isn't a single other thread about the Spurs need of a wing defender, when usually there a 5 such threads on the very first page of the ST forum. well, maybe b/c some of this has been discussed in here.

however.
if Chandler maybe has been on the market for a (late) 1st rounder a month ago, he likely isn't any longer, or (more likely) his price now is significantely higher. for those who didn't notice: he looks great this preseason, probably the 2nd best player on the Knicks behind Amare. and considering the latest reports that Azubuike will be out for some more months, Knicks also have one more reason to keep him.

so, back to the other obvious options.
Rush is on his way out of Indy. my guess is, the Pacers just want a pick back and are waiting for the best offer. a 1st rounder will do it. interested teams likely only offer 2nd rounders. I would take the risk and offer the 2011 1st rounder, if the Pacers send back also their 2nd rounder. (I assume this will be somewhere between 33 and 38)

the other one is Dahntay Jones. yes, not very intriguing. still and upgrade over our defensive options for the perimeter. and even if he is 2 inches smaller than Simmons (and exactly the same size like Anderson) he would be a better solution to defend SFs than Simmons and Anderson will be.

The Spurs pick will probably be somewhere between 20-25. Let's say it's 24 or 25 and the Pacers pick is 34 or 35. Sure, they move up ten spots, but is that enough for Rush? I know he's not a star in the making and he's had his problems, but still, I'm not sure that's enough. Although, a team might not give up a 1st for him at this point without getting back a 2nd. If that's the case, it'll come down to how desperate they are to move him.

Jones doesn't make much sense. Sure, he's a good perimeter defender, but he's a poor perimeter shooter and he's signed for three more seasons. He's not good enough to justify taking on his contract.

[mountainballer]

The Spurs pick will probably be somewhere between 20-25. Let's say it's 24 or 25 and the Pacers pick is 34 or 35. Sure, they move up ten spots, but is that enough for Rush? I know he's not a star in the making and he's had his problems, but still, I'm not sure that's enough. Although, a team might not give up a 1st for him at this point without getting back a 2nd. If that's the case, it'll come down to how desperate they are to move him.

Jones doesn't make much sense. Sure, he's a good perimeter defender, but he's a poor perimeter shooter and he's signed for three more seasons. He's not good enough to justify taking on his contract.

agree about Jones. just mentioned him, because he definitely is on the block.
(I thought his 3rd year is a TO, in fact it's a PO, so yes, his contract is a deal breaker)

back to Brandon Rush.
Pacers need to make some decisions soon. as far as I know Pacers didn't yet pick up his option for 2011-12. (I guess they need to do it till Oct.31st)
no team would trade a 1st rounder for him, if he will become an unrestricted FA in 2011.

btw. came across a nice analysis about the defensive numbers of Brandon Rush. pretty impressive.
http://alwaysmillertime.com/2010/07/08/i-owe-brandon-rush-an-apology/

[ChuckD]

I really dont want to dig whole 14 pages, so can someone tell me what is this trade status for now ? Only a rumour or something actually going on ?

The fact that it's 14 pages, weeks old, and nothing has happened should tell you all you need to know.

[dunkman]

agree about Jones. just mentioned him, because he definitely is on the block.
(I thought his 3rd year is a TO, in fact it's a PO, so yes, his contract is a deal breaker)

back to Brandon Rush.
Pacers need to make some decisions soon. as far as I know Pacers didn't yet pick up his option for 2011-12. (I guess they need to do it till Oct.31st)
no team would trade a 1st rounder for him, if he will become an unrestricted FA in 2011.

btw. came across a nice analysis about the defensive numbers of Brandon Rush. pretty impressive.
http://alwaysmillertime.com/2010/07/08/i-owe-brandon-rush-an-apology/

Brandon Rush seems to be undersized at 6'6.1/2" with shoes, but has compact neck and large arms (6'11.1/4" wingspan).

40% 3pt shooter and, as stats show, a great defensive player.

He mostly played SG in the NBA. However, I think that the Spurs should start Anderson or Neal, which would move Rush to SF. If he proves he can defend for the Spurs, Pop will start him in no time. The team always started Bowen and sometimes Bogans.

BTW, there should be a separate thread about Rush.

[Bruno]

The Jerrells trade makes an eventual trade for Chandler or Rush even more difficult to do. Gee+Temple isn't enough to match their salaries. It's even more unlikely than before to see Spurs doing that kind of moves.

For dreaming people: Spurs could theoretically package Gee+Temple+Gist to get Chandler and Rush in 1 week when Gist would be eligible to be traded.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The Jerrells trade makes an eventual trade for Chandler or Rush even more difficult to do. Gee+Temple isn't enough to match their salaries. It's even more unlikely than before to see Spurs doing that kind of moves.

For dreaming people: Spurs could theoretically package Gee+Temple+Gist to get Chandler and Rush in 1 week when Gist would be eligible to be traded.

Definitely makes it seem like any other trades they might have been pursuing have been given up on.

[Obstructed_View]

The Jerrells trade makes an eventual trade for Chandler or Rush even more difficult to do. Gee+Temple isn't enough to match their salaries. It's even more unlikely than before to see Spurs doing that kind of moves.

For dreaming people: Spurs could theoretically package Gee+Temple+Gist to get Chandler and Rush in 1 week when Gist would be eligible to be traded.

Setting an alarm on my phone! :lol

[MannyIsGod]

:lol likely

[Sean Cagney]

Rumor, no real concrete evidence the Spurs are even talking to the Knicks about him. Brandon Rush seems more likely.

Which is not so likely.. Rumor someone started or heard about, but it won't happen and this thread will just go away soon.

[ChuckD]

BTW, there should be a separate thread about Rush.

Why? The common factor is that neither one of them is coming here in a trade. You can discuss that in one thread. No need to clutter up the forum.

[Obstructed_View]

Why? The common factor is that neither one of them is coming here in a trade. You can discuss that in one thread. No need to clutter up the forum.

:lol Seconded. Only one "trades I just dreamed up" per page.

[dunkman]

Why? The common factor is that neither one of them is coming here in a trade. You can discuss that in one thread. No need to clutter up the forum.

It's better not to hijack the Chandler trade thread.

Look at this link:
brandon-rush-out-of-indy/ (http://alwaysmillertime.com/2010/10/15/nba-rumors-brandon-rush-out-of-indy/)

Rush seems to be available, that quotes are clear.

The Spurs could now offer the second rounder they got for Jerrells or their own.

[objective]

The Jerrells trade makes an eventual trade for Chandler or Rush even more difficult to do. Gee+Temple isn't enough to match their salaries. It's even more unlikely than before to see Spurs doing that kind of moves.

For dreaming people: Spurs could theoretically package Gee+Temple+Gist to get Chandler and Rush in 1 week when Gist would be eligible to be traded.

Would Simmons be available for trade?

[dunkman]

Simmons, Gist, Cousin, Neal, Bonner and Jefferson can't be traded because they were recently signed.

[ChuckD]

It's better not to hijack the Chandler trade thread.

Look at this link:
brandon-rush-out-of-indy/ (http://alwaysmillertime.com/2010/10/15/nba-rumors-brandon-rush-out-of-indy/)

Rush seems to be available, that quotes are clear.

The Spurs could now offer the second rounder they got for Jerrells or their own.

Oh, I don't doubt he's available. I doubt the Spurs are interested in a player needing to serve a drug suspension. It takes two to tango, or in this case, trade.

That pick is a mirage, BTW. It'll never materialize. The Clippers (the original owners of the pick we got from NO) would have to finish with one of the top 5 records in the NBA.

[dunkman]

Oh, I don't doubt he's available. I doubt the Spurs are interested in a player needing to serve a drug suspension. It takes two to tango, or in this case, trade.

That pick is a mirage, BTW. It'll never materialize. The Clippers (the original owners of the pick we got from NO) would have to finish with one of the top 5 records in the NBA.

Check this link:

Trade rumor of Parker for #10 pick, Troy Murphy and Rush. (http://dimemag.com/2010/06/nba-rumor-tony-parker-to-the-pacers/)

The trade never materialized, but there could have existed interest in Rush. RC has said that the Spurs want a wing defender, between other things.

The Indianapolis Star reported Friday that the former Kansas University player failed an NBA marijuana test for the third time. (http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2010/aug/27/brandon-rush-suspended-five-games-violation-nba-dr/)

It's marijuana, not really something outrageous. Odom was suspended too when was younger.

[ChuckD]

Check this link:

Trade rumor of Parker for #10 pick, Troy Murphy and Rush. (http://dimemag.com/2010/06/nba-rumor-tony-parker-to-the-pacers/)

The trade never materialized, but there could have existed interest in Rush. RC has said that the Spurs want a wing defender, between other things.

The Indianapolis Star reported Friday that the former Kansas University player failed an NBA marijuana test for the third time. (http://www2.ljworld.com/news/2010/aug/27/brandon-rush-suspended-five-games-violation-nba-dr/)

It's marijuana, not really something outrageous. Odom was suspended too when was younger.
Things other teams do aren't things the Spurs will do. Keep rubbing that lucky rabbit's foot, though. Maybe if you wish hard enough...

[TD 21]

agree about Jones. just mentioned him, because he definitely is on the block.
(I thought his 3rd year is a TO, in fact it's a PO, so yes, his contract is a deal breaker)

back to Brandon Rush.
Pacers need to make some decisions soon. as far as I know Pacers didn't yet pick up his option for 2011-12. (I guess they need to do it till Oct.31st)
no team would trade a 1st rounder for him, if he will become an unrestricted FA in 2011.

btw. came across a nice analysis about the defensive numbers of Brandon Rush. pretty impressive.
http://alwaysmillertime.com/2010/07/08/i-owe-brandon-rush-an-apology/

Maybe no team will trade a 1st round pick for him, but if I'm the Pacers, I'd rather keep him than trade him for a 2nd round pick. To me, that's just not enough value for him.

They have quantity on the wings, but not necessarily quality. Rush is their best true SG (Jones and Stephenson are the two others, so that's not saying all that much) and he may yet wake up from this last incident, realize that he's on shaky ground and grow up. If he does, he could still be a useful player and someone they re-sign to a reasonable contract.

I agree with Harlem though, that Rush would be the better fit for the Spurs at this time, despite the fact that Chandler has a higher upside. If a guy like Pietrus can play the three full time, then so too can Rush.


The Jerrells trade makes an eventual trade for Chandler or Rush even more difficult to do. Gee+Temple isn't enough to match their salaries. It's even more unlikely than before to see Spurs doing that kind of moves.

For dreaming people: Spurs could theoretically package Gee+Temple+Gist to get Chandler and Rush in 1 week when Gist would be eligible to be traded.

It does if it's a straight up trade. If it's a three (or four) way trade, then it doesn't affect anything.

Obviously, it's just a guess, but I think the Spurs would be willing to offer up their 1st for Chandler, Rush, someone of that ilk. I think they view this team as being one piece short and this as more than likely being their last best shot at a championship in the Duncan era. I have a hard time believing they'll let a (likely) 20-25 pick stand in the way between getting a potential over-the-top piece, particularly with four quality young players already on the roster.

However, I don't believe they'd be willing to surrender any of their top ten players to do so (just to be clear, I'm talking about everyone not named Neal, Simmons, Temple and Gee), which means there would have to be at least one other team included to facilitate the trade.

[dunkman]

Things other teams do aren't things the Spurs will do. Keep rubbing that lucky rabbit's foot, though. Maybe if you wish hard enough...

If you don't like to discuss or analyze based on limited information, there must be other threads with less uncertain information.

It's already known the Spurs seldom make trades, also that they sign big contracts with players of good character only.

RC said the Spurs objective was to sign a wing defender and Pop said defense was the main factor in the backup SF selection. Simmons, Gee or Temple are not great wing defenders.

While a probable outcome would normally be that the team will pick 2-3 players from the pre-season roster, it doesn't sound very logical to completely discard the possibility there could be a trade or an additional signing.

Holt was thinking the Spurs were to dominate last season with RJ and Dice. Duncan's era may finish soon. If the difference is going to be a good wing defender, in Rush's case, the team may ignore some details.

Neal had some legal problems but was signed because he already paid a price for his error, matured and he shots excellent - which is what the Spurs need to improve for the 2010/2011 season.

[KenziE]

so where are we on the chandler trade again?

[ace3g]

espn ESPN
Source: New York Knicks making progress on Carmelo Anthony trade - http://es.pn/acFsH0

[TheSpursFNRule]

Lol.

[Leetonidas]

espn ESPN
Source: New York Knicks making progress on Carmelo Anthony trade - http://es.pn/acFsH0

:tu

[Leonard Curse]

i think this maybe the slowest trade ever

[mountainballer]

The offers the Knicks have proposed have always centered around packages including Anthony Randolph, the expiring contract of Eddy Curry and a first-round draft pick they would acquire from a third team, and New York has softened its stance on including forward Danilo Gallinari in a trade.

The most recent obstacle, according to the source, was for the Knicks to use one of those assets, likely Randolph or Gallinari, to acquire a player from a third team that the Nuggets value more highly than either of the Knicks forwards. The source said that obstacle can now be overcome, with the Knicks confident they can get their hands on a player the Nuggets would prefer.

realistically I can't see that either the Spurs low pick (22-25), or a player from the Spurs roster is the crucial factor of such a deal. (ok, maybe if that player is Blair or Hill).
more likely the Knicks have found a potentially higher pick for Chandler, or (like the ESPN article implies) they trade either Gallinari or Randolph for a potential lottery pick (or a young player with former lottery potential) and then send the other of the two to Denver with that pick.
considering that reportedly the Blazers tried hard to dial into the discussed Nets-Nuggets-Bobcats-Jazz deal, it's not totally absurd to look to Portland.
not only do the Blazers have something the Knicks want (Rudy), the Knicks have something the Blazers might like (Douglas. Blazers reportedly wanted Harris from Nets, so Douglas should be intriguing for them as well).

however. we can still hope that a blockbuster around Melo produces so much movements, that the Spurs could sneak in with their 1st rounder and get back a helpful player.

[hsxvvd]

http://games.espn.go.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=2969nua

Spurs get:
Ty Lawson
JR Smith
Wilson Chandler

Nuggets get:
Gallo
Randolph
E Curry
R Turiaf

Kings get:
Azubuike

Knicks get:
Melo
Parker

Ty Lawson, JR Smith & Chandler for Parker... ok it's not fair value, but it's better than losing him to free agency.

Nuggets get Gallo, Randolph and cap space

Knicks get their "Big 3" in Parker, Melo and Stoudamire.

Kings get Azubuike to make it work.

Jesus, the season needs to start... I'm bored.

[Bruno]

The Jerrells trade makes an eventual trade for Chandler or Rush even more difficult to do. Gee+Temple isn't enough to match their salaries. It's even more unlikely than before to see Spurs doing that kind of moves.

For dreaming people: Spurs could theoretically package Gee+Temple+Gist to get Chandler and Rush in 1 week when Gist would be eligible to be traded.

With Gist waived, Spurs now don't really have what it takes to match Chandler or Rush salaries. They had to include McDyess or Anderson if they want to a trade for one of them.

[mountainballer]

IMO the option for a straight deal with the Knicks is dead anyhow. but as the 3rd or 4th team in a blockbuster maybe not. and in such a bigger there will be other options to make things work by salary. (but yes, without including Dice there likely won't be a scenario that works by the numbers)

[dunkman]

With Gist waived, Spurs now don't really have what it takes to match Chandler or Rush salaries. They had to include McDyess or Anderson if they want to a trade for one of them.

I'm not an cap expert but I would say that a first rounder for Chandler can be done straight up. The picks count as salary IMO, a first rounder means a guaranteed contract for the player.

The Spurs traded Jerrells for a conditional second rounder without receiving a contract back or a trade exception as the Hornets are over the cap.

Dice signed with the Spurs for a chance to win the title, it would be very un-Spur to get him traded, if the deal isn't to sign him after the buyout. Besides, Butler is still playoffs unproven and Splitter has yet to play in the NBA.

It's very unlikely that the Spurs ship Anderson. He was a high pick for Spurs standards. He could have all-star potential. The trade wouldn't make sense for Chandler who's a role player.

[SenorSpur]

I'm not an cap expert but I would say that a first rounder for Chandler can be done straight up. The picks count as salary IMO, a first rounder means a guaranteed contract for the player.


That's what I'm hoping as well. The prevailing notion seems to be that acquiring Chandler would somehow cost the Spurs more that a 1st. I'm no cap expert either, so I'm not sure why.

I don't think anyone is foolish enough to believe that the Spurs have solved their issues at the SF spot. Chandler, while not perfect, could help. Can't wait to see how this all turns out.

[mountainballer]

I'm not an cap expert but I would say that a first rounder for Chandler can be done straight up. The picks count as salary IMO, a first rounder means a guaranteed contract for the player.

The Spurs traded Jerrells for a conditional second rounder without receiving a contract back or a trade exception as the Hornets are over the cap.

Dice signed with the Spurs for a chance to win the title, it would be very un-Spur to get him traded, if the deal isn't to sign him after the buyout. Besides, Butler is still playoffs unproven and Splitter has yet to play in the NBA.

It's very unlikely that the Spurs ship Anderson. He was a high pick for Spurs standards. He could have all-star potential. The trade wouldn't make sense for Chandler who's a role player.

a pick always counts zero!

the Hornets use one of their many trade exceptions in their trade for Jerrells.
(that way they created a TE for the Spurs with the value of the Jerrells salary= 762K)

[Seventyniner]

a pick always counts zero!

the Hornets use one of their many trade exceptions in their trade for Jerrells.
(that way they created a TE for the Spurs with the value of the Jerrells salary= 762K)

Does this mean the 1st rounder + Gee + Temple + that trade exception is enough to take back Chandler? Or can that TE not be packaged?

[oligarchy]

Does this mean the 1st rounder + Gee + Temple + that trade exception is enough to take back Chandler? Or can that TE not be packaged?

You can only package a TE with picks, which, as previously stated, have 0 value.

[dbestpro]

With Gist waived, Spurs now don't really have what it takes to match Chandler or Rush salaries. They had to include McDyess or Anderson if they want to a trade for one of them.

It seems Dice would be of interest to Denver if they go in rebuilding mode.

[EricB]

Danny ferry is in Philly to watch sixers and knicks....

[ace3g]

Danny ferry is in Philly to watch sixers and knicks....

If only Chandler was playing tonight...

[mountainballer]

Danny ferry is in Philly to watch sixers and knicks....

if true that's pretty interesting.
(and there could have been several reasons why Chandler didn't play. Ferry might still have expected to see him play)

or there are other players involved? the rumor was that the Knicks want the Spurs 2011 1st rounder, they might still be interested, but maybe the offer has changed. Walker and my man Landry Fields could be intriguing for the Spurs as well. Fields played a good summer league and showed also some decent games during this pre season. (last night 15 points)

if anyone is interested, some posts about Fields:
http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=148289&highlight=Landry+Fields

I saw Fields in the Gomes and Dudely niche. (although he is significantly better an athlete than Dudely)
maybe even even a bit Battier?

however. he isn't the super athlete like Chandler, but he offers a lot what we would call Spurs material. again: I wouldn't be surprised if he was the reason for Ferry's trip to the Knicks game.
(and I really don't think he was there to just scout the Sixers as an opponent. they play them in about 4 weeks and there will be about 10 regular season games to scout them before that game. and the Knicks the Spurs don't play before January)

[ChumpDumper]

(and I really don't think he was there to just scout the Sixers as an opponent. they play them in about 4 weeks and there will be about 10 regular season games to scout them before that game. and the Knicks the Spurs don't play before January)Probably there to see if anyone else is waived.

[mountainballer]

might be. Knicks and Sixers need to cut at least one player.
but I fear ST will cry if any of those possible cuts (Rautins, Shawne Williams, Ewing Jr., Plaisted, Quinn) is signed.

[mountainballer]

since this the inofficial "every rumor around the league that might or might not affect the Spurs" thread:


According to ESPN, Varejao could be involved in a trade that is progressing with the Knicks and Nuggets. Maybe in fact it could be a three-team trade with the Knicks, Cavs and Nuggets!
http://bleacherreport.com/articles/497673-lebron-james-was-right-all-along-with-racist-comments


this does make some sense IMO, if Nuggets get back either Gallinari along with Varejao and a pick and Randolph ends up with the rebuilding Cavs team.
(Cavs might as well be very interested in Chandler).
the question is, do the Cavs include their 2011 pick? they are likely lottery bound, so are they willing to ship a lottery pick? on the other hand, if the pick is lottery protected, are the Nuggets interested? (can't see that).
there might still a 4th team (Spurs?) come into play.

[mountainballer]

since this the inofficial "every rumor around the league that might or might not affect the Spurs" thread:



this does make some sense IMO, if Nuggets get back either Gallinari along with Varejao and a pick and Randolph ends up with the rebuilding Cavs team.
(Cavs might as well be very interested in Chandler).
the question is, do the Cavs include their 2011 pick? they are likely lottery bound, so are they willing to ship a lottery pick? on the other hand, if the pick is lottery protected, are the Nuggets interested? (can't see that).
there might still a 4th team (Spurs?) come into play.

EDIT:
just looked at the potential of a Nuggets-Cavs-Knicks deal. could be very nice for all teams. the Cavs TE from the Lebron S&T make it work.
and that way the Nuggets could also save about 12-15 million in salary and taxes. (for example: Nuggets get Varejao and Gallinari, Cavs get Curry and Randolph, Knicks get Melo. picks will be involved. Nuggets are still pretty good, especially when considering the Nuggets get more size to match better in the West)

[lefty]

Ok, so I went to Raps vs Knicks game, and I observed Chandler - during the 1st quarter only, I didnt give a fuck after that...

- Defense: I like what I saw from him; he was really focused, displayed a nice footwork on the perimeter, and did a great job on Kleiza, who had been red hot in the preseason prior to tonight's game
However, Keep in mind that Kleiza is not the fastest guy on the court, but he had been playing with confidence, and stopping a confident scorer is already a good thing.
Also, he didnt seem to be lost on the court.

He also did a good job in pick'n'roll situations, but was so-so when it comes to defensive help: sometimes good, sometimes a bit late

- Rebounding: he crashed the board without hesitation; didnt grab a lot of rebounds, but the mindset was there

- Offense: as Timvp mentioned in the 1st page of this thread, I wouldn't rely too much on him for scoring a lot of points; however, he played smartly, and did a very good job at passing the ball on the perimeter and at kicking the ball out when trying to penetrate.
On the very rare times he cut to the basket without the ball, he did it with a good timing; that's something he should do more often.

Let's not forget that the Raps have one of the shittiest D in the NBA though.

Overall, he has a good potential; he is dedicated to playing D, has good offensive IQ and positioning, but is not agressive enough offensively.


Current status: a good project

http://img94.imageshack.us/img94/9334/imagerma.jpg

[ChuckD]

Current status: a Knick

[8FOR!3]

Current status: a trade with the Spurs isn't happening.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Was there ever any definitive answer on whether or not the Spurs had the horses to get a deal done if it came down to it? Do we have a TE and if so can we package it with the pick plus scrubs to make the deal work?

Of course it all comes down to NY getting a deal to work but I just want to know in theory if this can even happen.

[Bruno]

Was there ever any definitive answer on whether or not the Spurs had the horses to get a deal done if it came down to it? Do we have a TE and if so can we package it with the pick plus scrubs to make the deal work?

Of course it all comes down to NY getting a deal to work but I just want to know in theory if this can even happen.

The definitive answer is NO.

Spurs can't do a trade for Chandler (or for Rush) without including at least one of Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, McDyess, Splitter, Anderson, Blair or Hill.

[Spurs Brazil]

There have been preliminary discussions between Wilson Chandler and the Knicks regarding a potential contract extension, The Post has learned. "There's been positive dialogue," Chandler's agent, Chris Luchey, told The Post. "I wouldn't be surprised if he is extended." New York Post

http://hoopshype.com/rumors.htm

[tav1]

Brandon Rush is completely out of the rotation in Indiana. Jim O'Brien has committed to Granger, Mikey D and George.

http://www.indystar.com/article/20101019/SPORTS04/10190332/Pacers-O-Brien-picks-Rush-to-fill-in-for-injured-Granger?odyssey=obinsite

It's too bad even the most creative math can't make something work between the Pacers and Spurs. It would be a win for everybody.

[Spursfanfromafar]

The definitive answer is NO.

Spurs can't do a trade for Chandler (or for Rush) without including at least one of Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, McDyess, Splitter, Anderson, Blair or Hill.

That means that the Spurs have to make do with whatever perimeter defense they can get from their current set atleast till December 25th. And then try swapping Bonner for Rush (more likely) or Chandler. Rush is more likely because the Pacers might a replacement for their lost PF, Troy Murphy. Bonner's 3Point scoring is as good or even better than Murphy, but his rebounding isn't. But his contract is not so bad for the Pacers.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

The definitive answer is NO.

Spurs can't do a trade for Chandler (or for Rush) without including at least one of Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, McDyess, Splitter, Anderson, Blair or Hill.


so there is no TE?

[Bruno]

That means that the Spurs have to make do with whatever perimeter defense they can get from their current set atleast till December 25th. And then try swapping Bonner for Rush (more likely) or Chandler. Rush is more likely because the Pacers might a replacement for their lost PF, Troy Murphy. Bonner's 3Point scoring is as good or even better than Murphy, but his rebounding isn't. But his contract is not so bad for the Pacers.

Bonner can be traded after December 15th.
If Blair and Splitter are both good and if Anderson isn't, it's realistic to think that Spurs will try to trade Bonner for a backup SF.
But that's a lot of ifs and it can't happen before nearly two months, so wait and see...


so there is no TE?

Spurs have two little TEs (from the Ratliff and the Jerrells trade) but TEs can't be added or combined with other players.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Bonner can be traded after December 15th.
If Blair and Splitter are both good and if Anderson isn't, it's realistic to think that Spurs will try to trade Bonner for a backup SF.
But that's a lot of ifs and it can't happen before nearly two months, so wait and see...



Spurs have two little TEs (from the Ratliff and the Jerrells trade) but TEs can't be added or combined with other players.

Alright good deal thanks.

[dunkman]

Bonner can be traded after December 15th.
If Blair and Splitter are both good and if Anderson isn't, it's realistic to think that Spurs will try to trade Bonner for a backup SF.
But that's a lot of ifs and it can't happen before nearly two months, so wait and see...



Spurs have two little TEs (from the Ratliff and the Jerrells trade) but TEs can't be added or combined with other players.

I read some cap documents today. Players on minimal salary are traded without taking contracts back, as there is exception in that case. Same as draft picks, those contracts simply count for 0 in trades.

Which would mean the Spurs don't have a TE from the Jerrells trade.

That being said, the Spurs could make a trade with a pick and Gee, but they would need a third team. Every team needs a third PG, so Temple should stay with the team.

[dunkman]

However, the option that exists is that Bowen or Horry make a S&T not 100% guaranteed deal for what is missing in salaries.

For example:

Spurs send
- S&T Bowen to the required number with a small guaranteed part
- cash to compensate the Knicks or Indiana for that small part they will have to pay
- Gee with a second rounder or a first rounder only

The Pacers or the Knicks send
- Chandler or Rush

[Bruno]

I read some cap documents today. Players on minimal salary are traded without taking contracts back, as there is exception in that case. Same as draft picks, those contracts simply count for 0 in trades.

Which would mean the Spurs don't have a TE from the Jerrells trade.


That's false.

It's true that a team can acquire a minimum salary player without an exception. But when a team trade away a minimum salary player for picks, a trade exception is generated.

[Bruno]

However, the option that exists is that Bowen or Horry make a S&T not 100% guaranteed deal for what is missing in salaries.

For example:

Spurs send
- S&T Bowen to the required number with a small guaranteed part
- cash to compensate the Knicks or Indiana for that small part they will have to pay
- Gee with a second rounder or a first rounder only

The Pacers or the Knicks send
- Chandler or Rush

First, Spurs can't S&T Bowen since his last team was Bucks.
Second, when you S&T a player the first year must be fully guaranteed.

In theory, a S&T with Horry could work to get Chandler or Rush but there are good chances that the league forbid it.

[bluebellmaniac]

My understanding of the whole Chandler rumor is that it is based on the Knicks wanting to get under the cap enough to be able to trade for Melo. So they wouldn't want salary back, but do need an extra first round draft pick for the Melo trade... as a sweetener.

I also don't see us sending away Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, McDyess, Splitter, Anderson, Blair or Hill for Chandler. This leaves few options at this point. Here is what looks most plausible to me, although it'll take a couple months before it can occur.

1. If the Spurs found a team that wanted to take Bonner's salary off our hands in return for a draft pick, that would give us a $3M Trade Exception. This could only happen after Dec 15th though, almost 2 months from now.

2. We could then use the trade exception to have the Knicks send us Chandler.

3. We'd give the Knicks the first round draft pick they need for the Melo trade.

Everyone's happy.

Although I need to see who could absorb / make room (and would want) a contract like Bonner's.

[dunkman]

Melo isn't a FA, AFIK the Knicks don't need to get under the cap to sign him. The Nuggets want various draft picks.

The Spurs send: Gee + first round pick + S&T Horry + cash
The Knicks send: Chandler

Or

The Spurs send: Gee + second round pick + S&T Horry + cash
The Pacers send: Rush

The Spurs would have to pay around $1M in cash (for Horry's first year), the move would put them over the luxury threshold and there would be some luxury tax to pay, finally the Spurs would also lose the 1/30 luxury tax retribution (may be around $3M).

All in all, in that scenario, Chandler and Rush would be expensive, however the team gets complete with talent.

Mid season is too late for a player to catch-up with the Spurs system. The wing defender wouldn't be ready by playoffs time.

[xtremesteven33]

Why is this thread still open

[dunkman]

ecumenically? or in general?

[ChuckD]

Wilson Chandler isn't walking through that door. Rush isn't walking through that door.

The final roster will be a subset of the players under contract now. Sorry to rain on your fucking parade, dream heads.

[Blackjack]

FWIW:

Pacers pick up Rush's option (http://twitter.com/#!/MikeWellsNBA/status/29117707362).

[Solid D]

http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/file.php?2,file=14818,filename=Thread-Crap-Wont_Die.jpg

[Bender]

:( I gave up on clicking on this thread way back... but when I just noticed Solid D as the last poster, I thought... oh man maybe some real news finally... :(

[slick'81]

yeah i think its safe to say wilson chandler isnt coming lol

[Blackjack]

http://www.fairfaxunderground.com/forum/file.php?2,file=14818,filename=Thread-Crap-Wont_Die.jpg

Well, if you stopped posting pics it would. :downspin:

[Blackjack]

In theory, a S&T with Horry could work to get Chandler or Rush but there are good chances that the league forbid it.

I honestly don't see how they could forbid it at this point. There was some uproar with the Gasol deal and others in recent years, but the hole exists until it doesn't anymore. And with the CBA set to expire next year, when they can address such a loophole, this may be the last time you could take advantage of it.

This contract was collectively bargained so they may frown upon it or dissuade people from doing it, but I'm not sure how they'd have any standing on enforcement.

[SenorSpur]

First, Spurs can't S&T Bowen since his last team was Bucks.
Second, when you S&T a player the first year must be fully guaranteed.

In theory, a S&T with Horry could work to get Chandler or Rush but there are good chances that the league forbid it.

I seem to remember that the Mavs facilitated a similar such deal, a few years ago. They used the rights of the recently-retired Keith Van Horn, as part of assets used in a trade with the NJ Nets. Van Horn, who had been retired at least 2 years, was required to show up to the Nets for a physical. He was released immediately back into retirement - and in return he received an undisclosed amount of cash for his agreement to the sign-n-trade scenario.

Unless there has been new rules implemented to forbid such a trade - using Robert Horry in a S&T scenario to get Chandler would be quite a coup.

Great thinking, Bruno.

[jjktkk]

I seem to remember that the Mavs facilitated a similar such deal, a few years ago. They used the rights of the recently-retired Keith Van Horn, as part of assets used in a trade with the NJ Nets. Van Horn, who had been retired at least 2 years, was required to show up to the Nets for a physical. He was released immediately back into retirement - and in return he received an undisclosed amount of cash for his agreement to the sign-n-trade scenario.

Unless there has been new rules implemented to forbid such a trade - using Robert Horry in a S&T scenario to get Chandler would be quite a coup.

Great thinking, Bruno.

Cmon Senor, lets say the Spurs would pull off a trade like this using Horry. The Spurs ownership doesn't have the money to pay off Horry on the side. Maybe they could give Horry A Taco Cabana gift card. Would that do it?

[20beastie45]

I like the way when he dunks on someone...he has no emotion like some other spurs!

[SenorSpur]

Cmon Senor, lets say the Spurs would pull off a trade like this using Horry. The Spurs ownership doesn't have the money to pay off Horry on the side. Maybe they could give Horry A Taco Cabana gift card. Would that do it?

That, along with a gift certificate from Yardley's Spa should cover it.

I realize the Spurs rarely, if ever, throw cash around, in this fashion - even if they could afford to. It's just wishful thinking on my part. However, the point is that it HAS been done before by other clubs.

[thOOdee]

2 cents

[dunkman]

I seem to remember that the Mavs facilitated a similar such deal, a few years ago. They used the rights of the recently-retired Keith Van Horn, as part of assets used in a trade with the NJ Nets. Van Horn, who had been retired at least 2 years, was required to show up to the Nets for a physical. He was released immediately back into retirement - and in return he received an undisclosed amount of cash for his agreement to the sign-n-trade scenario.

Unless there has been new rules implemented to forbid such a trade - using Robert Horry in a S&T scenario to get Chandler would be quite a coup.

Great thinking, Bruno.

Bruno confirmed it's possible, it was my idea. Since Jerrells was traded square heads were saying any trade to land Chandler or Rush was "fucking" impossible.

As Melo makes pressure to get traded, well who knows. Finally, trading Chandler for a first round pick is a small sacrifice to get a superstar. Not sure about Rush-Pacers situation, previously it looked Bird has lost the patience.

However, never said it was highly probable. Besides the availability of those players depends on external factors, Chandler or Rush would mean serious money and in the case of the Spurs the payroll level wasn't always directly linked to championships.

[Bruno]

I seem to remember that the Mavs facilitated a similar such deal, a few years ago. They used the rights of the recently-retired Keith Van Horn, as part of assets used in a trade with the NJ Nets. Van Horn, who had been retired at least 2 years, was required to show up to the Nets for a physical. He was released immediately back into retirement - and in return he received an undisclosed amount of cash for his agreement to the sign-n-trade scenario.

Unless there has been new rules implemented to forbid such a trade - using Robert Horry in a S&T scenario to get Chandler would be quite a coup.


It's not exactly what happened with KVH.

The league didn't like at all Mavs using a loophole in the CBA to do this trade and they agreed to it only if KVH stayed with Nets until the end of the season and wasn't waived. It's possible, and even likely, that the league send a memo to all teams after the Kidd trade saying that they won't allow this kind of tricks.
Another problem is that Horry had to agreed. Horry has earned $54M and won 7 rings. It's far from sure he would agreed to be part of that joke to earn an extra $1.5M.
All in all, while a Horry S&T is theoretically possible, in fact, it likely isn't possible.

[Man In Black]

Spurs did the same thing when they got Ron Mercer and Hedo Turkoglu.

San Antonio Spurs
During the 2003 offseason, Türkoğlu was traded to the San Antonio Spurs along with Ron Mercer in a three-team trade. The trade also sent Brad Miller to the Kings and Scot Pollard and Danny Ferry to the Pacers

Danny Ferry, for all intents and purposes, was not going to play anymore.

[Uriel]

With the team playing so well as of late, it might not be a good idea to mess with the chemistry at the moment, but I think this is still worth saying nonetheless.

At the moment, we have 2 trade exceptions worth around $800k and $700k thanks to trades we made earlier involving Theo Ratliff and Curtis Jerrells. We also signed Ime Udoka for the veteran minimum earlier this season which amounts to roughly $700k. Do the math, and that totals to roughly $2.2 million.

Wilson Chandler has a salary of $2.1 million.

With New Jersey making moves to acquire more draft picks to help sweeten their offer to Denver in the Melo sweepstakes, New York has to be able to keep up by offering first round picks of their own. Acquiring our first round pick certainly would help that cause, especially when you consider that reports have surfaced that Anthony would only be willing to sign an extension if he were to be traded to New York.

As for us, if a deal like this were to go through, we would essentially have done a major upgrade on Ime Udoka. Unfortunately, we can't trade him until the last day before the trade deadline, so if we're going to pull the trigger on this move, we have to risk having no one snatch Chandler before we can get him. Alternatively, we could throw Chris Quinn into the fold in place of Udoka, but we can't trade him until much later either. I'm also concerned that this trade might put us over the luxury tax, and we all know how determined the front office is to avoid that.

Personally if I'm Peter Holt, if I was willing to pay $8 million in luxury tax last season for a marginally good team, why wouldn't I pay $1 - 2 million to make a potential championship team even better, especially if all I'm giving up in the process is Ime Udoka and a very late first round pick?

[Chieflion]

You cannot combine trade exceptions. That's it and that's all.

[Uriel]

Then trade Quinn, Udoka, and one of the trade exceptions plus the first round pick for Chandler.

[Ditty]

I wouldn't give up a 1st round pick for chandler unless there is an extension...we could possibly get him this offseaon for the MLE if he doesn't sign an exentsion or no lockout

One guy who I would like the spurs to get is jarred dudley but doubt phoenix will trade him to us :lol unless there having a huge firesale, but I think that team is good enough to be 7 or 8 in the conference

[Nathan Explosion]

Is Chandler 1st round pick material though, considering that the Spurs seemed to have good luck with their first round pick the last 2 out of 3 years with Hill and Anderson in limited action so far this year?

They're not going to luck into Blair again with just a second round pick, so I'd be a little hesitant.

[Uriel]

I wouldn't give up a 1st round pick for chandler unless there is an extension...we could possibly get him this offseaon for the MLE if he doesn't sign an exentsion or no lockout


Maybe so, but if we get him this season, then we'll have him for the playoffs, which would be the point in acquiring him in the first place. Also, we'll be able to preserve our MLE in order to address a different need that may crop up come offseason.


Is Chandler 1st round pick material though, considering that the Spurs seemed to have good luck with their first round pick the last 2 out of 3 years with Hill and Anderson in limited action so far this year?

They're not going to luck into Blair again with just a second round pick, so I'd be a little hesitant.

I think he is, considering that first round pick will likely be a late pick in a bad draft, and that Wilson Chandler is starting to come into his own (or at least, I'd like to think so). He's 6"8 with long arms and would fill that backup small forward / lockdown defender role we'll need, especially against the better teams in the west. It's also worth noting Chandler is averaging nearly 18ppg and shooting the same percentage as Manu this season from 3.

[Ditty]

True but why would you want to give up a talneted 1st round pick to build on the future, then get a guy who you can this offseason. I'm pretty sure spurs could possibly get someone who can get possibly get bought out around trade deadline, but I doubt knicks would just want a 1st round pick as great as chandler been playing this year unless forsure know there getting carmelo.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

Then trade Quinn, Udoka, and one of the trade exceptions plus the first round pick for Chandler.

You can't combine TEs with players. Also, Udoka can only be traded on trade deadline day.

[tdunk21]

You can't combine TEs with players. Also, Udoka can only be traded on trade deadline day.

recently signed FA's can be traded starting dec 15th.....so ime can be traded now

[SenorSpur]

Chandler is an absolute waste on the Knicks. He's probably the best defender on the roster, yet plays for a coach who couldn't care less about defense. As an offensive threat, he's already light years ahead of where he was previously. He now needs to play in a system, where his defensive capabilities would be fully utilized.

I'd love it if the Spurs were to somehow engineer a trade for him - even if it meant burning a 1st round pick in 2011. It's not something I would normally advocate, and I would hope the Spurs could secure him to some sort of an extension as well, but given those parameters, it would make perfect sense.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

recently signed FA's can be traded starting dec 15th.....so ime can be traded now

Yes but Ime wasn't signed in the summer, he was signed on October 24th, which means he'll be trade eligible on February 24th, which is trade deadline day.

Edit : maybe I'm wrong and someone will correct me. Mountainballer? Mel_13?

[tdunk21]

Yes but Ime wasn't signed in the summer, he was signed on October 24th, which means he'll be trade eligible on February 24th, which is trade deadline day.

Edit : maybe I'm wrong and someone will correct me. Mountainballer? Mel_13?

yup u r right.....i just looked it up and it said free agents who signed a contract over the summer....my bad

[UnWantedTheory]

I am not understanding why this is still in discussion.

[TE]

I am not understanding why this is still in discussion.

its an unwanted theory aint it?

[UnWantedTheory]

its an unwanted theory aint it?
To be sure bro., it certainly is. How we love our fantasy basketball.

[Bruno]

Two months ago, the rumor was that Knicks needed a first round pick for a Melo trade and that Chandler would have allowed them to get one.

Chandler has played well this year but Randolph has been bad. The new rumor is that Randolph would now be the one traded to allow Knicks to get a first round pick for a Melo trade. Spurs haven't been linked at all to this new rumor.

To make it short, Chandler isn't available.

[Uriel]

You can't combine TEs with players. Also, Udoka can only be traded on trade deadline day.
Yes, I already stated that Udoka couldn't be traded until the deadline. As for not being able to combine trade exceptions with players, sorry about that, I should've done a little more research before writing my post. But then we can simply replace the trade exception with someone else like Gary Neal, so the offer would be Gary Neal, Ime Udoka, and Chris Quinn plus our first round pick for Wilson Chandler. New York doesn't have enough roster space for a deal like that though, so they're going to have to get a little more creative and do some more maneuvering, like potentially involving a third team, or combing Chandler with other players. In any case, it's not really the players that make New York do the deal, it's the first round pick, so the point still stands.


Two months ago, the rumor was that Knicks needed a first round pick for a Melo trade and that Chandler would have allowed them to get one.

Chandler has played well this year but Randolph has been bad. The new rumor is that Randolph would now be the one traded to allow Knicks to get a first round pick for a Melo trade. Spurs haven't been linked at all to this new rumor.

To make it short, Chandler isn't available.
Maybe so, but if they're not able to acquire a first round pick through Randolph, then dealing Chandler would be a nice fallback option. Besides, just because Chandler has played well and Randolph hasn't doesn't mean they're unwilling to trade him, only that they'd be more inclined to do a deal that involved Randolph instead. In fact, it can be argued that things are actually the other way around: precisely because Chandler is playing well and Randolph isn't makes the former a more tradeable asset than the latter. In any case, if it meant acquiring Carmelo Anthony, I seriously doubt the Knicks would be unwilling to trade anyone on their roster for him not named Amar'e Stoudemire or Raymond Felton.

[rascal]

Two months ago, the rumor was that Knicks needed a first round pick for a Melo trade and that Chandler would have allowed them to get one.

Chandler has played well this year but Randolph has been bad. The new rumor is that Randolph would now be the one traded to allow Knicks to get a first round pick for a Melo trade. Spurs haven't been linked at all to this new rumor.

To make it short, Chandler isn't available.

I agree with Uriel. If the Knicks knew they would land Anthony then they would trade Chandler.

[Mel_13]

In any case, it's not really the players that make New York do the deal, it's the first round pick, so the point still stands.

In any case, if it meant acquiring Carmelo Anthony, I seriously doubt the Knicks would be unwilling to trade anyone on their roster for him not named Amar'e Stoudemire or Raymond Felton.

Which is exactly why Chandler to the Spurs is a virtual impossibility. If you assume that the Knicks will not let their attachment for Chandler stand in the way of trade for Anthony, they aren't going to risk waiting until the trade deadline to acquire a very late first round pick from the Spurs. They'll make a deal with one of the other 28 teams to acquire a future first rounder well before that date.

[MaNu4Tres]

Chandler has been ballin' this year on both ends and has found confidence in his 3 point stroke.

There's no way Chandler is traded for a mid-late first round pick anytime this year. He's a big part of what the Knicks are doing right now. IMO

[objective]

Isn't the Knicks biggest problem with Chandler is the impact he has on their capspace?

I could be wrong, but I believe the only way the Knicks have enough caproom to give Carmelo the max-near max is if Chandler is renounced or gotten rid of. Even if he doesn't get any offers and takes the QO, I think that really junks up the Knicks ability to get Melo as an outright free agent signing.

[Mr. Body]

The Knicks would be stupid to trade Wilson Chandler. And the Knicks are no longer a stupid organization, or that stupid.

[angelbelow]

The Knicks would be stupid to trade Wilson Chandler. And the Knicks are no longer a stupid organization, or that stupid.

Agreed, Knicks shouldn't have any incentive to trade Chandler at this point.. too bad, got pretty excited about the prospect of adding him to our team. Esp. since we didn't know RJ was going to be such a beast this season.

However... it remains to be seen if the Knicks are still a stupid organization, but so far so good for them.

[picnroll]

I think there's a snowballs chance in Helll Spurs could get Wilson but, don't Wilson, Gallniari and Melo all play the same position? If Knicks got Melo something would have to give.

[chazley]

We aren't getting Chandler. /thread