Insurance Premiums

[johnsmith]

Just found out that the company is raising health insurance premiums by 50%..........neat!

[boutons_deux]

Mgmt needs those 10s of $Ms in bonuses.

[TeyshaBlue]

Yup. Never saw that comin'.

[Wild Cobra]

Employees of TRIMET here in the portland metro region are probably going to have to pay for some of their health care costs. Right now, they have 0% payments, and get great service. We are running out of tax payers to keep giving government employees the sweet deals.

Free ride over: TriMet boss says union employees must pay share of health-care costs (http://www.oregonlive.com/roadreport/index.ssf/2010/09/new_trimet_gm_union_employees.html)

[MannyIsGod]

That sucks man. The insurance premiums more than likely aren't going up that much but the company contribution is probably dropping quite a bit. If I had to guess I'd say your company is on hard times and probably sees this as a way to cut costs and blame the insurance company.

[Wild Cobra]

When a perk becomes a thought of as a right, people need to be slapped with a dose of reality.

[MannyIsGod]

Its not a perk asswipe, its a form of compensation. Its no different than any other compensation negotiated in a contract.

[Wild Cobra]

Its not a perk asswipe, its a form of compensation. Its no different than any other compensation negotiated in a contract.
It was a perk before unions made it part of a compensation package. It still is a perk in some industries. You know, plenty of non union jobs offer good health insurance.

[MannyIsGod]

Its never a perk. Its compensation for doing your job. Stop being a complete tool.

[ChumpDumper]

How many facepalms a day does WC inspire?

[boutons_deux]

facepalms?

nah, self bitch-slaps

"Employee benefit plans proliferated in the 1940’s and 1950’s. Strong unions bargained for better benefit packages, including tax-free, employer-sponsored health insurance. Wartime (1939-1945) wage freezes imposed by the government actually accelerated the spread of group health care. Unable by law to attract workers by paying more, employers instead improved their benefit packages, adding health care."

http://www.neurosurgical.com/medical_history_and_ethics/history/history_of_health_insurance.htm

======

no-profit, hard-core public option is the best solution, but the health profit industry has the power to and will kill it.

[CosmicCowboy]

Its not a perk asswipe, its a form of compensation. Its no different than any other compensation negotiated in a contract.

Manny, are you aware that health insurance as a perk was originally started by companies in a "hot" economy competing for workers as a way to evade Federal wage and price controls? As recently as the 1960's "pay for service" was the norm.

[TeyshaBlue]

Manny, are you aware that health insurance as a perk was originally started by companies in a "hot" economy competing for workers as a way to evade Federal wage and price controls? As recently as the 1960's "pay for service" was the norm.

CC, are you aware that you are completely and totally wrong?

Ever heard of The Baylor Plan? 1929?

[Wild Cobra]

Its never a perk. Its compensation for doing your job. Stop being a complete tool.
Yes, master baiter, and PHD of indoctrination.

You don't really believe that do you? When corporations first started offering health care for employees, it was a way of enticing employees to work for a particular firm.

Oh well, I guess I should never expect an indoctrinated master baiter like you to understand such real concepts.

[TeyshaBlue]

Yes, master baiter, and PHD of indoctrination.

You don't really believe that do you? When corporations first started offering health care for employees, it was a way of enticing employees to work for a particular firm.

Oh well, I guess I should never expect an indoctrinated master baiter like you to understand such real concepts.

Ok. You would be incorrect as well. Baylor Health Plan. Google it.

It was initially a means for Baylor Hospital to get paid.

[CosmicCowboy]

CC, are you aware that you are completely and totally wrong?

Ever heard of The Baylor Plan? 1929?

Tesha, I did not say that insurance was not available before 1960. I said that EMPLOYER PAID insurance was not the norm before 1960. Individuals typically did individual insurance or fee for service.

[Wild Cobra]

facepalms?

nah, self bitch-slaps

"Employee benefit plans proliferated in the 1940’s and 1950’s. Strong unions bargained for better benefit packages, including tax-free, employer-sponsored health insurance. Wartime (1939-1945) wage freezes imposed by the government actually accelerated the spread of group health care. Unable by law to attract workers by paying more, employers instead improved their benefit packages, adding health care."

http://www.neurosurgical.com/medical_history_and_ethics/history/history_of_health_insurance.htm

======

no-profit, hard-core public option is the best solution, but the health profit industry has the power to and will kill it.
idiot.

Your own link says the first group plan was an agreement, and it was before it mentions unions.

Yes, it's in contracts when unions are involved, but non union workers also have health care plans not part of any contract, and a benefit package is to entice and maintain good employees.

[TeyshaBlue]

Tesha, I did not say that insurance was not available before 1960. I said that EMPLOYER PAID insurance was not the norm before 1960. Individuals typically did individual insurance or fee for service.

Ah...I misread you. as a perk. Doh! My bad.:toast

[boutons_deux]

So without unions (and the govt war-time salary controls), we'd all be screwed on health insurance even worse than now, because we know corps will fuck the employees out of as much salary as possible.

Did you see the recent, but years too late, US govt attack on a cartel of huge Silicon Valley wealth, profitable corps that conspired not to poach each others employees and thereby artificially, and illegally, screw high-demand employees out of salary?

That group of corps is the same one that wants the H1B quote raised so they can undercut US citizens and import cheap Asian engineers and programmers.

There is direct causality by the employers' war on employees (wanted by conservatives, corps, and officially kicked off in the post WWII era by St Ronnie's mass firing of air traffic controllers) of the stagnation of household real income and vastly increased wealth inequality since 1980.

[Wild Cobra]

So without unions (and the govt war-time salary controls), we'd all be screwed on health insurance even worse than now, because we know corps will fuck the employees out of as much salary as possible.

No, we are screws because of union and government involvement.

Health care became common and overused. When you are in a group plan that spreads out the cost, people don't control their usage of such plans. If we actually had to thing if we wanted to spend money for a doctor visit, the self restraint would lower cost.

Frivolous lawsuits are a problem too. Doctors performing more tests and procedures than they otherwise would to reduce the risk of being sues increases costs also.

Knowing government to be as it is, I'm sure you can trace overzealous regulations as a cause for added costs as well.

[MannyIsGod]

Yes, master baiter, and PHD of indoctrination.

You don't really believe that do you? When corporations first started offering health care for employees, it was a way of enticing employees to work for a particular firm.

Oh well, I guess I should never expect an indoctrinated master baiter like you to understand such real concepts.

:lol

Oh you mean in order to attract employees they started offering this form of compensation?

Amazing how that works. You pay people more (in one way or another) and they come work for you.

[MannyIsGod]

idiot.

Your own link says the first group plan was an agreement, and it was before it mentions unions.

Yes, it's in contracts when unions are involved, but non union workers also have health care plans not part of any contract, and a benefit package is to entice and maintain good employees.

Tell me, is an hourly wage of non contract worker in a contract? Since when does compensation have to be in a contract.

Perk. LOL.

[Wild Cobra]

:lol

Oh you mean in order to attract employees they started offering this form of compensation?

Amazing how that works. You pay people more (in one way or another) and they come work for you.
Sure. In the past. Today, we have an overage of qualified people. Still, benefit packages include health insurance. When employees can easily move from one job to another, they often stick with the employer with the best benefit package. I guess being a union dog, this in not understandable by you. You expect the best you can negotiate for the least amount of work, all the while, having unions protect the least common denominator attitude.

[Wild Cobra]

Tell me, is an hourly wage of non contract worker in a contract? Since when does compensation have to be in a contract.

Perk. LOL.
I'm not even sure what you are trying to distinguish here. It is in union contracts, but can be changed at a moments notice by employers without a union contract. It is a benefit, not a right, at least in non union jobs.

[MannyIsGod]

Can someone translate WC's last post for me?

[MannyIsGod]

I'm not even sure what you are trying to distinguish here. It is in union contracts, but can be changed at a moments notice by employers without a union contract. It is a benefit, not a right, at least in non union jobs.

Uh, so can a wage. Since when is compensation locked in for a non contract employee?

[Wild Cobra]

Can someone translate WC's last post for me?
Think outside that box of indoctrination you seem to live in.

[CosmicCowboy]

If un-employment and under-employment is not addressed by stimulating private sector economic growth the argument about employer paid health insurance will become irrelevant. Employees are now having to compete for employers and not the other way around.

[MannyIsGod]

Think outside that box of indoctrination you seem to live in.

Sorry, I've been indoctrinated in the language of English and I can't understand people when they don't use the same language. I also read Spanish and I'm currently learning Latin but I don't suspect you know either of those either?

I'm not sure if I'll ever be fluent in WildCobraese.

[MannyIsGod]

If un-employment and under-employment is not addressed by stimulating private sector economic growth the argument about employer paid health insurance will become irrelevant. Employees are now having to compete for employers and not the other way around.

Depends on the field. Unskilled labor is simply fucked outside of an alien race kidnapping the countries of China and India for their cheap labor.

[Drachen]

My Total Compensation Report for 2009 (and before) includes the employer paid portion of the various insurances that I have through them.

[MannyIsGod]

That would be because its compensation, not a perk.

Perk = Nice coffee in the break room as opposed to crap coffee (pun intended)

Compensation = major service company pays for on your behalf.

[CosmicCowboy]

Depends on the field. Unskilled labor is simply fucked outside of an alien race kidnapping the countries of China and India for their cheap labor.

Even skilled labor is going to be fucked in our new "big government" economy. You wouldn't believe the calls/resumes I get every day.

[MannyIsGod]

I would. I'm screening resumes for a position in our practice and I've gotten people with useful degrees applying for what is basically a glorified receptionist. That being said, for some reason I doubt I'll run across any science, engineering, or computer science degrees.

[CosmicCowboy]

I would. I'm screening resumes for a position in our practice and I've gotten people with useful degrees applying for what is basically a glorified receptionist. That being said, for some reason I doubt I'll run across any science, engineering, or computer science degrees.

Actually, I know of a HIGHLY qualified mechanical engineer with a stellar resume thats been looking here for 6 months...and our job market is better here than the rest of the country.

[MannyIsGod]

Thats pretty shitty for him. Still, Id think you'd agree with the gist of my point.

[CosmicCowboy]

Actually, with the exponential growth in global bandwidth, science, computer, and engineering jobs aren't safe either. They may be managed from the US but the "projects" now rotate around the globe 24/7 to offshore locations as daylight moves around the earth.

[CosmicCowboy]

Hell, Manny...take your degree as an example...do you really think a meteorologist in India can't look at the same satellite data you are looking and come to the same conclusion?

[boutons_deux]

cc, there is no bigger big govt economy.

the job enquiries you get are completely due to the Banksters Great Depression, not big govt. Govt's role was passively enabling and bailing out the banksters, not initiating the Depression.

But keep up your tea party lies, they have no credibility.l

[MannyIsGod]

Sure, but the demand for meteorologists and the outlook for it here in the US is strong - especially with graduate degrees. I'm not worried in the least. I wouldn't be worried with an engineering degree or a CS degree either or most other sciences.

[CosmicCowboy]

cc, there is no bigger big govt economy.

the job enquiries you get are completely due to the Banksters Great Depression, not big govt. Govt's role was passively enabling and bailing out the banksters, not initiating the Depression.

But keep up your tea party lies, they have no credibility.l

speaking of lack of credibility...:lmao

[101A]

It was a perk before unions made it part of a compensation package. It still is a perk in some industries. You know, plenty of non union jobs offer good health insurance.

It began during WWII when there were wage freezes; to allow employers a means of attracting employees; Perk/Compensation - Tomato/Tomata.

[CosmicCowboy]

Sure, but the demand for meteorologists and the outlook for it here in the US is strong - especially with graduate degrees. I'm not worried in the least. I wouldn't be worried with an engineering degree or a CS degree either or most other sciences.

I am in no way questioning your statement and literally asking for my own information...

Who hires meteorologists? I mean, I know all the TV stations have their own "meteorologists" but lets face it, you have a face for radio...:p:

Why is there a strong demand for meteorologists with graduate degrees and who hires them?

[MannyIsGod]

The government is the largest employer by a sizable margin (NOAA, NWS, Military) but there is a large need for them in the private sector too (energy companies are HUGE for this but also think the private forecasting companies).

Theres a strong demand for meteorologists with graduate degrees simply because we don't graduate many of them.

I'm planning on grad school and likely going the PhD route because I want to do research.

[CosmicCowboy]

The government is the largest employer by a sizable margin (NOAA, NWS, Military) but there is a large need for them in the private sector too (energy companies are HUGE for this but also think the private forecasting companies).

Theres a strong demand for meteorologists with graduate degrees simply because we don't graduate many of them.

I'm planning on grad school and likely going the PhD route because I want to do research.

cool...good luck!

[LnGrrrR]

No, we are screws because of union and government involvement.

I'd actually say that it can't be blamed on any one faction.


Health care became common and overused. When you are in a group plan that spreads out the cost, people don't control their usage of such plans. If we actually had to thing if we wanted to spend money for a doctor visit, the self restraint would lower cost.

Agree with you here.


Frivolous lawsuits are a problem too. Doctors performing more tests and procedures than they otherwise would to reduce the risk of being sues increases costs also.

Yup. Very true.


Knowing government to be as it is, I'm sure you can trace overzealous regulations as a cause for added costs as well.

Certainly.

That's the thing though; everyone's at fault, and no one's at fault, at the same time.

You can blame unions for making health insurance mandatory, but you can't blame union workers for wanting to get the best deal they can from their employer, right?

You can blame doctors for ordering too many tests and driving up the prices for all in said insurance company, but you can't blame them for wanting not to get sued.

You can blame government for writing too many regulations, but you can't blame them for wanting to protect consumers from quack doctors.

Etc etc. It's a conglomeration of bad effects but from all fields, with a lack of foresight throughout.

[LnGrrrR]

Sure, but the demand for meteorologists and the outlook for it here in the US is strong - especially with graduate degrees. I'm not worried in the least. I wouldn't be worried with an engineering degree or a CS degree either or most other sciences.

<--- working on his IT degree with Security focus... or was until I got to Hawaii... no good college programs for that here

[DarrinS]

Premiums are going up and companies are dropping coverage -- and it was part of the design all along.

[MannyIsGod]

<--- working on his IT degree with Security focus... or was until I got to Hawaii... no good college programs for that here

UofH doesn't have what you need or are you just too far from it?

[LnGrrrR]

UofH doesn't have what you need or are you just too far from it?

Not necessarily too far; just that they don't have a campus on-base that does IT courses, and I don't have the time to leave work and get there. (Traffic towards Honolulu is horrible around 4 PM, and it would take me an hour to drive 20 miles.)

As well, they don't have a strong bachelor's degree program, whereas Tulane's off-campus (since it was located next to Keesler AFB, which trains communicators) had a strong IT development program, with various focuses on security, programming, web design, etc etc.

The worst thing is that in order to complete my associates through Tulane, I have to take classes at HPU... but I had to take pre-req classes first before I could even take the classes that Tulane will give me credit for. A huge pain in the ass.

[MannyIsGod]

Not necessarily too far; just that they don't have a campus on-base that does IT courses, and I don't have the time to leave work and get there. (Traffic towards Honolulu is horrible around 4 PM, and it would take me an hour to drive 20 miles.)

As well, they don't have a strong bachelor's degree program, whereas Tulane's off-campus (since it was located next to Keesler AFB, which trains communicators) had a strong IT development program, with various focuses on security, programming, web design, etc etc.

The worst thing is that in order to complete my associates through Tulane, I have to take classes at HPU... but I had to take pre-req classes first before I could even take the classes that Tulane will give me credit for. A huge pain in the ass.

Hopefully you're in a position to finish soon. I put it off all through my 20s and I'm just now finishing and although I don't feel incredibly behind at my ripe old age of 30 I do envy the peers in my classes who are 10 years younger.

[RandomGuy]

I am in no way questioning your statement and literally asking for my own information...

Who hires meteorologists? I mean, I know all the TV stations have their own "meteorologists" but lets face it, you have a face for radio...:p:

Why is there a strong demand for meteorologists with graduate degrees and who hires them?

Shipping companies, and any company that moves things around on the water.

Large agricultural companies, the Department of Agriculture, some larger property and casualty insurers, airlines, etc.

The kinds of companies that would be hiring would probably be in the larger end of the scale.

Here is a good resource:
http://www.theweatherprediction.com/jobs/

More varied than I would have thought.

[RandomGuy]

Premiums are going up and companies are dropping coverage -- and it was part of the design all along.

The socialist plot.

Personally I think health care in the US is broken. We need more socialism rather than less.

BUT

I am more than willing to really give whatever "free market" solutions the right can or wants to come up with a shot.

Repeal health care reform, take the ball and run with it. Do every idea that fits within the realm of your ideology and lets try that.

If, as I suspect, "free market health care" is the abject failure I suspect it to be, we will know for certain.

If it works, then that is awesome too.

At this point, I just want SOMETHING done, because the half-assed system we have isn't working.

As it is, we have HCR coming up. Either it will work or not. Personally I think it was far too watered down to be really much of a solution.

[CosmicCowboy]

Health care isn't broken. It's just too damn good for everyone to afford the latest technology. Period. Until we get over the concept that everyone deserves the latest and greatest health care we won't ever be able to find a solution.

[CosmicCowboy]

Health care rationing in the future is an absolute given.

The question is how we ration it.

There will not ever be a "fair" way to do it...

[TeyshaBlue]

<--- working on his IT degree with Security focus... or was until I got to Hawaii... no good college programs for that here

Who cares? You're in Hawaii, dude!:lol

[LnGrrrR]

Hopefully you're in a position to finish soon. I put it off all through my 20s and I'm just now finishing and although I don't feel incredibly behind at my ripe old age of 30 I do envy the peers in my classes who are 10 years younger.

Eh, not really. I put it off until 25 or so, big mistake. Now I've got too much knowledge/responsibility, and am pretty much on the hook to help if our network goes down. Not to mention that deploying can really put a kink in your classes if they're not a strong online school (Tulane isn't).

I'm still fighting through it though, bit by bit. I'll at least make Bachelor's before I get out (9 years) and some progress towards Master's I'm sure. At least I've got some certs already (Sec+, CCNA).

[LnGrrrR]

Who cares? You're in Hawaii, dude!:lol

I know. :) Now, if only I could get the almost-year-old kiddo to enjoy the frigging beach...

[TeyshaBlue]

I know. :) Now, if only I could get the almost-year-old kiddo to enjoy the frigging beach...

Dude...it's hard to believe it's already been a year....

[TeyshaBlue]

Dude...it's hard to believe it's already been a year....

LnGrr's so screwed.:lol

It just starts goin faster after this.:toast

[RandomGuy]

Health care isn't broken. It's just too damn good for everyone to afford the latest technology. Period. Until we get over the concept that everyone deserves the latest and greatest health care we won't ever be able to find a solution.

That solution is rationing. We already do that.

I am more concerned about simple things like the ability to have access to regular medication that keeps people out of hospitals.

[LnGrrrR]

Dude...it's hard to believe it's already been a year....

I know! Time flies. He just started walking more than crawling... need to get a gate for upstairs.

[RandomGuy]

Health care rationing in the future is an absolute given.

The question is how we ration it.

There will not ever be a "fair" way to do it...

We already ration by ability to pay. That is how goods and services are distributed in a free market system.

If you value something enough, you will pay for it. Therefore the supply will be sold to everybody who values something enough to pay what the going price is.

Self rationing according to ability to pay.

Where this starts to break down is that health care is also distributed on a fee per service basis by physicians and other health care providers, providing a rather perverse incentive to give patients far more care than they probably really need.

That and some defensive medicine, and you get some real demand drivers.

Fee for service is another hallmark of our free market solution. The brainy brains in health care are trying to find something different.

[RandomGuy]

I know! Time flies. He just started walking more than crawling... need to get a gate for upstairs.

Just don't lose your health insurance. HA.

Seriously, though, hope you are enjoying this.

That and watching nanny 9-11 and other similar shows. There are no bad kids, merely bad parents. The nannies in those shows tend to have advanced degrees in child development.

My wife and I learned a lot from them.

Mean what you say. Empty threats are a sure way to bad behavior.
Attach consequences to actions.
Establish clear rules.
Lots and lots of positive comments. Easy to be negative, harder to keep from being nothing but negative. Kids shut down if negative is all you use.
Talk and communicate. Make sure kids understand it is bad behavior you are mad at, not the kid specifically.

Anyhoo gotta get going.

[LnGrrrR]

LnGrr's so screwed.:lol

It just starts goin faster after this.:toast

I know... but I look forward to the day where we can wrestle, play ball and things of that nature. :D

[LnGrrrR]

Just don't lose your health insurance. HA.

Let's just say that losing health insurance for active duty military is unlikely to happen. :D


That and watching nanny 9-11 and other similar shows. There are no bad kids, merely bad parents. The nannies in those shows tend to have advanced degrees in child development.

Yeah, my wife and I have watched a ton of those. Pretty amazing, really, what they're able to do.


Mean what you say. Empty threats are a sure way to bad behavior.
Attach consequences to actions.
Establish clear rules.
Lots and lots of positive comments. Easy to be negative, harder to keep from being nothing but negative. Kids shut down if negative is all you use.
Talk and communicate. Make sure kids understand it is bad behavior you are mad at, not the kid specifically.

I'm big on communication. Of course, it's not really vaild right NOW, but I figure he'll get it as he gets older. And my wife's the real disciplinarian, but I try to help.