funny article -- Pop was ready to trade RJ

[Samr]

70 percent of the article is not new information; we all know Jefferson has been working out over the off-season, and we all know that Pop likes that. However, some of these quotes are just priceless.

(The part on RJ is a bit down the page, under its own heading.)

Full article (http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/david_aldridge/10/04/morning-tip-john-wall/index.html?ls=iref:nbahpt1)

Highlights:


So Popovich gave Jefferson a choice, telling him there would be no hard feelings either way. Jefferson could agree to meet Popovich and assistant coach Chip Engelland during the summer in San Antonio to go "back to school," as Popovich put it, on regaining the fundamentals that the Spurs' coach thought Jefferson had lost over the last few seasons. He would also work with Spurs assistant Chad Forcier in New York. And he'd take part in Tim Grgurich's skills camp in Vegas in August.

Or he could refuse, and enjoy his summer.

"And I would have definitely tried to trade him on the spot," Popovich said. "I told him I would definitely go to work on getting your ass out of Dodge."


Popovich wasn't sure Jefferson would agree. He'd established himself as a star of sorts, and it's sometimes hard to get players on that level to keep from coasting. They are, they often say, who they are. But to his credit, Jefferson bought in.

"I just think he needed somebody to demand it of him," Popovich said. "He's a smart guy and he's got great character. It was lucky for me that I could address him straight on. If he was a dumb guy or a smart ass I would probably have had to try to trick him. Overall, I hope it translates to more consistent play."

[lefty]

Love Pop

Trading Dick's ass

See what he did there ?

[#2!]

Love Pop

Trading Dick's ass

See what he did there ?


man that is fresh. you're funny. you are very funny.

[wildbill2u]

Pop is not just and x and o coach. The man knows how to deal with people in a fair way that respects them but lets them know who is boss.

That's why there is no dissension on the Spurs. The players buy into the coach and his system.

[spurs10]

Love Pop

Trading Dick's ass

See what he did there ?
Got to say, I love that sig of Manu almost beheading that big girl Sasha. Man he really knocked the crap out of him....judging from his reaction, that is! :ihit

[Leftyventricle]

http://www.nba.com/2010/news/features/david_aldridge/10/04/morning-tip-john-wall/

"I asked him if he wanted to reach his potential, or just let the next few years slough away and just put money in the bank," Popovich said. "He said 'I want to reach my potential.' "

[falconqb1234]

glad to see him put in the work. maybe he can actually do something productive in the offense this year.

[lefty]

man that is fresh. you're funny. you are very funny.

Yeah I know


Got to say, I love that sig of Manu almost beheading that big girl Sasha. Man he really knocked the crap out of him....judging from his reaction, that is! :ihit

Yeah Sasha almost died

[history2b]

Gee this news is shocking.

All the Spurs fans I know claimed Jefferson clearly was going to improve in the Spurs system in his 2nd year because there's no way he could play worse than last season.

That said Pop shouldn't have had anything to say to RJ; he was just going to magically play better because after all he'd be more acclimated with the Spurs system.:rolleyes

[JustinJDW]

I'm very happy to read that.

[The_Worlds_finest]

Gee this news is shocking.

All the Spurs fans I know claimed Jefferson clearly was going to improve in the Spurs system in his 2nd year because there's no way he could play worse than last season.

That said Pop shouldn't have had anything to say to RJ; he was just going to magically play better because after all he'd be more acclimated with the Spurs system.:rolleyes

Damn your an idiot

[Leetonidas]

Damn your an idiot

:tu

[Mitch Cumsteen]

He reported to camp last week with 7 percent body fat and a cut-up physique.The best part of the article. Among the rest of his problems, RJ was out of shape last year.

[YoMamaIsCallin]

Got to say, I love that sig of Manu almost beheading that big girl Sasha. Man he really knocked the crap out of him....judging from his reaction, that is! :ihit

I've done that myself... the guy shows the ball, I swipe at it, and hit him in the eye. I felt really bad. You can see that Manu did too... immediately raised his hand with a sheepish look. Sasha is not faking. That is the human reaction when something swipes you across the eyeball hard.

[ironman2886]

In the second year of the spurs system, along with a tongue lashing, the player improves. Cant argue with history.

[duncan228]

Pop details the reclamation of Richard Jefferson (http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/tim_griffin/2010/10/pop-details-the-reclamation-of.html)
By Tim Griffin

http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/tim_griffin/2010/10/pop-details-the-reclamation-of.html

*********************

Jefferson: "I didn't forget how to play basketball" (http://projectspurs.com/2010-articles/october/jefferson-looking-to-reach-potential.html)
by Michael A. De Leon
Project Spurs

http://projectspurs.com/2010-articles/october/jefferson-looking-to-reach-potential.html

[phxspurfan]

Pop details the reclamation of Richard Jefferson (http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/tim_griffin/2010/10/pop-details-the-reclamation-of.html)
By Tim Griffin

http://blogs.mysanantonio.com/weblogs/tim_griffin/2010/10/pop-details-the-reclamation-of.html

*********************

Jefferson: "I didn't forget how to play basketball" (http://projectspurs.com/2010-articles/october/jefferson-looking-to-reach-potential.html)
by Michael A. De Leon
Project Spurs

http://projectspurs.com/2010-articles/october/jefferson-looking-to-reach-potential.html

7% body fat my butt. The guy looks like he's 20%

[ironman2886]

7% body fat my butt. The guy looks like he's 20%
Yeah, let's take your word for it, and not the Spurs' trainers. :rolleyes

[history2b]

Yeah, let's take your word for it, and not the Spurs' trainers. :rolleyes

Spurs trainers would never embellish this kind of thing ever.

Just like the idea of a non-fitting, anti-role playing dud improving in his 2nd year just because of "tongue lashing."

[ironman2886]

I'm still waiting for the 'community service" speech. How many posters will be in attendence? Cant wait.

[history2b]

I'm still waiting for the 'community service" speech. How many posters will be in attendence? Cant wait.

That comment seemed to have cut deep. Sorry ironman but I rarely make the same speech twice. I communicate necessary points as I see fit.

And this is just the honeymoon period. I can't wait til we're in mid-season form when guys like you won't be around because of how far down your foot will be down your own throat. Just like last season.

[ironman2886]

That comment seemed to have cut deep. Sorry ironman but I rarely make the same speech twice. I communicate necessary points as I see fit.

And this is just the honeymoon period. I can't wait til we're in mid-season form when guys like you won't be around because of how far down your foot will be down your own throat. Just like last season.
:lmao

[history2b]

:lmao

I agree, I think it's funny that you are a preseason warrior who puffs out his chest and talks up the Spurs in October and November and once they predictably start sputtering you disappear and wait for winning streaks to come back and actually discuss the game.

I consider fans like that sackless but to each their own.

[ironman2886]

I agree, I think it's funny that you are a preseason warrior who puffs out his chest and talks up the Spurs in October and November and once they predictably start sputtering you disappear and wait for winning streaks to come back and actually discuss the game.

I consider fans like that sackless but to each their own.
:lol This is what an obsessive troll does.

[Bruno]

I'm cautious about all these positive RJ articles. The fact that he worked hard during this offseason isn't enough to offset his bad previous season. I have almost no expectation regarding him and I'm just waiting to see if this great offseason will give results on the court.

[Blackjack]

I'm cautious about all these positive RJ articles. The fact that he worked hard during this offseason isn't enough to offset his bad previous season. I have almost no expectation regarding him and I'm just waiting to see if this great offseason will give results on the court.

The points about him getting down to 7% body fat are encouraging (and noticeable to anyone who does any kind of weightlifting or training) and I expect him to be a better, more useful player this year. But I think it's both fair and wise to take a wait-and-see approach.

It stands to reason he'd be better in his second year with the Spurs and after having a full offseason and camp to train and do all it entails to succeed with this team - he had bulked up a bit and lost edge/fundamentals playing on bad teams and in a more prominent role. But it can't be overlooked that he's now a 30-year-old that's been reliant on his athleticism and doesn't possess all that great of a shot. He is and always will be a scorer and slasher more than a shooter.

Basically, the expectations have done such a 180 with the fan base that it can't possibly be as bad as the complete naysayers would have you believe. I didn't believe he was the answer to what the Spurs needed or some kind of savior then, and I don't believe he's a bum that can't possibly help the cause in some way, shape or fashion now.

I hope and expect improvement, but I don't believe he'll be the reason this team does or doesn't win.

[history2b]

I'm cautious about all these positive RJ articles. The fact that he worked hard during this offseason isn't enough to offset his bad previous season. I have almost no expectation regarding him and I'm just waiting to see if this great offseason will give results on the court.

The expectation should be that he is not a role player, never has been and never will be because he's a player whose relative success relied entirely on his athleticism. His jump shooting ability has always been atrocious, his defense sub par and his court vision / IQ below average.

He enjoyed some success playing with the best passing point guard of this generation dishing out gift wrapped dimes while a young RJ filled the lane and got to the cup with ease.

When the Spurs acquired him last summer, I laughed. Seriously. I was sitting in my chair at the office and guffawed. Why Pop would want such a fundamentally poor sap who's defense is light years behind what Bruce Bowen contributed was beyond me.

What was even more laughable was the wink wink restructured $40M contract that he was awarded this summer. I guffawed again.

[Blackjack]

What was even more laughable was the wink wink restructured $40M contract that he was awarded this summer. I guffawed again.

Why is that?

[history2b]

Why is that?

Is that a joke?

[5in10]

http://espn.go.com/blog/TrueHoop/post/_/id/20185/gregg-popovich-and-richard-jefferson-work-overtime

[Blackjack]

Is that a joke?

No, what would you have had them do this past summer?

[history2b]

No, what would you have had them do this past summer?

First of all not tell him to opt out of his previously horrendous contract, in order to reward him with a wink wink longer term contract for less per year, saving the Spurs from delving into luxury tax territory this season.

Bite the bullet for the contract you traded for, pay it for the time being and use your front office savvy to yield a new piece (or pieces) for that massive expiring contract come February.

That would have been smart.

[Blackjack]

First of all not tell him to opt out of his previously horrendous contract, in order to reward him with a wink wink longer term contract for less per year, saving the Spurs from delving into luxury tax territory this season.

Bite the bullet for the contract you traded for, pay it for the time being and use your front office savvy to yield a new piece (or pieces) for that massive expiring contract come February.

That would have been smart.

What piece or pieces would have been available to be had, and would said piece(s) make them better off on the court or financially after restructuring the contract?

[history2b]

What piece or pieces would have been available to be had, and would said piece(s) make them better off on the court or financially after restructuring the contract?

How am I supposed to project who will be available in the future? That's a stupid question.

And what do you care about what the Spurs do financially? Are you multi-millionaire Peter Holt's beneficiary? He ok'd the deal to trade for RJ knowing full well it was a 2 year contract so what's the problem now? He didn't want to pay it? lol.

[Blackjack]

How am I supposed to project who will be available in the future? That's a stupid question.

No, that's a stupid answer. Those are the questions and circumstances asked and assessed before making that kind of move.

Maybe you're just much smarter than the Spurs' front office and have more insight as to what their options really were?


And what do you care about what the Spurs do financially? Are you multi-millionaire Peter Holt's beneficiary? He ok'd the deal to trade for RJ knowing full well it was a 2 year contract so what's the problem now? He didn't want to pay it? lol.

Because what they do financially has bearing on what they can and are willing to do moving forward, Ace.

After the contract's restructuring, the Spurs will only be paying $13,492,000- $14,492,000 for RJ's final 3 years after the savings. They won't have the huge contract of Duncan (gone or paycut) and possibly Parker (could bolt), so his contract won't be all that cumbersome should he play it out.

Doing what they did allowed them to field a more talented team while remaining under the tax - something that allows an owner that isn't among the richest in the league to do more for his team down the road when any or all of the Big 3 are gone.

It's what smart front offices do - they can't all be Buss, Cuban, Allen or Prokhorov

[dbestpro]

So, when is Pop gonna have a talk with Bonner?

[Blackjack]

So, when is Pop gonna have a talk with Bonner?

He did: "shoot the ball or sit on the bench."

Like I said, wait-and-see.

[history2b]

No, that's a stupid answer. Those are the questions and circumstances asked and assessed before making that kind of move.

Maybe you're just much smarter than the Spurs' front office and have more insight as to what their options really were?



Because what they do financially has bearing on what they can and are willing to do moving forward, Ace.

After the contract's restructuring, the Spurs will only be paying $13,492,000- $14,492,000 for RJ's final 3 years after the savings. They won't have the huge contract of Duncan (gone or paycut) and possibly Parker (could bolt), so his contract won't be all that cumbersome should he play it out.

Doing what they did allowed them to field a more talented team while remaining under the tax - something that allows an owner that isn't among the richest in the league to do more for his team down the road when any or all of the Big 3 are gone.

It's what smart front offices do - they can't all be Buss, Cuban, Allen or Prokhorov

So when the Lakers traded Kwame for Pau Gasol are you implying the Lakers knew in advance prior to the season starting Pau was going to want out of Memphis, Memphis was going to want to shed cap space and a deal was going to be made? That's the kind of magical insight front offices need in order to make successful deals?

The reality is that no one knows who is going to want out and who's going to be willing to sell for pennies on the dollar. Chris Paul might that guy, could be someone else. No one knows right now. But what we do know is that it happens every year now and this is where the best deals are to be had.

Perhaps you'd like to share your mathematical insight on RJ's new deal. He opted out of a $15.2M deal this year for an $8.4M one. $6.8M difference x2 for luxury tax penalty = $13.6M saved this season.

Now add up the 9.3, 10.1 and 11M he makes the following 3 years and you have over $30M. Subtract 13.6 and it's still just a tad under $17M not 13.4 or 14.4. But whatever.

What's the luxury tax going to be in 2011-12? No one knows. It could be much lower, higher or non-existent. The new CBA will determine that.

That considered, let's say it's lower than it is now; You have to re-sign Tony Parker to a new contract? How much does that $9.3M to RJ factor in to what you'd pay to keep Tony Parker now? Does signing him to a multi-year contract at (presumably) $10M+ put you back in the luxury tax territory? Possibly.

What about the next year when George Hill will be looking to get paid? Does RJ's $10.1M contract assist or impede that process?

Bottom line in the NBA is you never make a bad business deal consciously. And the Spurs did just that vastly overpaying an underachieving scrub in order to save a buck or two this year. And they'll pay eventually. Guaranteed. And I'll be laughing all the way.

[Blackjack]

So when the Lakers traded Kwame for Pau Gasol are you implying the Lakers knew in advance prior to the season starting Pau was going to want out of Memphis, Memphis was going to want to shed cap space and a deal was going to be made? That's the kind of magical insight front offices need in order to make successful deals?

No. Terrible and irrelevant analogy.


The reality is that no one knows who is going to want out and who's going to be willing to sell for pennies on the dollar. Chris Paul might that guy, could be someone else. No one knows right now. But what we do know is that it happens every year now and this is where the best deals are to be had.

But you already know that the resigning and restructuring of RJ's contract was a stupid move all the way around? Interesting.


Perhaps you'd like to share your mathematical insight on RJ's new deal. He opted out of a $15.2M deal this year for an $8.4M one. $6.8M difference x2 for luxury tax penalty = $13.6M saved this season.

Now add up the 9.3, 10.1 and 11M he makes the following 3 years and you have over $30M. Subtract 13.6 and it's still just a tad under $17M not 13.4 or 14.4. But whatever.

The contract was originally $15.2M, the tax payment would have been between $6,039,921 and $6,894,310 (depending on 13 or 14 players) and the redistribution they wouldn’t have been eligible for is projected as being $3.3M.

Holt's line actually improved by $24,539,921 for 13 players and $25,394,310 for 14 with RJ's opt out -- but they were still over the cap.

When all is said and done, after re-signing RJ, the savings come out between $16-17M.

And if you look at the $16-17M in savings for the upcoming year, because of the Jefferson refinancing, the Spurs will only be paying $14-15M in additional spending for Jefferson’s final 3 years:

2011/12: $9,282,000

2012/13: $10,164,000

2013/14: $11,046,000 (player option)

Total = $30,492,00

Minus the upcoming year’s savings ($16-17M) = $14,492,000 – $13,492,000



What's the luxury tax going to be in 2011-12? No one knows. It could be much lower, higher or non-existent. The new CBA will determine that.

And? You don't think the Spurs' front office is aware of that? Do you believe the the Spurs and Holt are looking to pay tax once the Big 3 are gone and they're no longer a viable contender? Would they pull the trigger on something like that if they didn't believe they had enough flexibility?


Bottom line in the NBA is you never make a bad business deal consciously. And the Spurs did just that vastly overpaying an underachieving scrub in order to save a buck or two this year.

Sure, that's usually the case. But they did what they believe they had to for a very short and closing window. They're looking to capitalize on a championship window that doesn't come around often (if at all) for a small market team. They're not looking to punt one of Duncan's final years away.

Was RJ overpaid? Most definitely. But it's about winning now and what they could have got from their exceptions (again, over the cap) wasn't deemed to be better than what RJ offered


And they'll pay eventually. Guaranteed.

They would have paid this year had RJ not opted out. They prevented that from happening - they're putting off payment to a later date in order to give themselves the best and most opportune situation now and under the likely assumption that their future salary won't be teetering on the tax line once the Big 3 run's over.

Sometimes it's not if you pay but when - just look at tax and redistribution ramifications.


And I'll be laughing all the way.

Good for you. I'll have to try going to another team's board to find satisfaction in my life.

Trolls I can respect. This, not so much. :lol

[history2b]

No. Terrible and irrelevant analogy.

Actually it's not. You claimed you need to know who will be available so you can assess what moves to make. You can't because no one knows how things will shake up this season. Period. But you hold onto you hand in order to have the chance to make a play. Will anyone in this league, I'm talking every single one of the 29 other teams, touch Jefferson's contract now? Hell no.



But you already know that the resigning and restructuring of RJ's contract was a stupid move all the way around? Interesting.

Of course. If he was overpaid, it was a bad deal. You can sit high and mighty in the first year of the restructuring priding yourself on the great move your franchise made in saving a couple of bucks in taxes this one season but in year 4 when a washed up 34 year old Jefferson is hobbled on the bench sucking the team for $11Million you'll still be singing the praise of the 2010-11 luxury tax savings extravaganza presumably right?




And? You don't think the Spurs' front office is aware of that? Do you believe the the Spurs and Holt are looking to pay tax once the Big 3 are gone and they're no longer a viable contender? Would they pull the trigger on something like that if they didn't believe they had enough flexibility?

The Spurs aren't contenders anyway, lol. Was the 2010 sweep of an ass kicking not wake up call enough for you? How many more times do you have to watch your Spurs fail miserably in the playoffs to understand this fact. I bet that if Tim was 50 years old playing in a wheel chair you'd be one of those fan boys claiming "Hey if Tim's out there on the floor we still have a shot."

Worse case scenario you let RJ's contract expire at the end of the 10-11 season and you wipe your hands clean and save even more money that could be appropriately spent on players worthwhile, whether it was your own free agents or through the MLE. Overpaying underachieving scrubs never works out for the better. Never.




Sure, that's usually the case. But they did what they believe they had to for a very short and closing window. They're looking to capitalize on a championship window that doesn't come around often (if at all) for a small market team. They're not looking to punt one of Duncan's final years away.

Was RJ overpaid? Most definitely. But it's about winning now and what they could have got from their exceptions (again, over the cap) wasn't deemed to be better than what RJ offered

You're not winning now. End of story.



They would have paid this year had RJ not opted out. They prevented that from happening - they're putting off payment to a later date in order to give themselves the best and most opportune situation now and under the likely assumption that their future salary won't be teetering on the tax line once the Big 3 run's over.

Sometimes it's not if you pay but when - just look at tax and redistribution ramifications.

It won't matter. And at the end of the day they'll have shot themselves in the foot for their future in order to stubbornly and delusionally believe they still had a shot now. This is play out for all to see and know shortly. Guaranteed.

[ChumpDumper]

lol why does lakerfan care so much about the Spurs?

[history2b]

lol why does lakerfan care so much about the Spurs?

I care about basketball first and foremost and can talk about the game all day.

What do you want me to do? Find a Laker board and say "Hooraaay we're the best, we're number one, woo hoo!"

I came here at the challenge of a Spurs fan on the ESPN board who claimed I was "afraid" to come here and post on this board. So here I am, doing what I do, which is talk about the game of basketball without a filter, honestly and openly. Sit back and pay close attention to what I have to say and you'll stand to learn a lot.

[ChumpDumper]

What do you want me to do? Find a Laker board and say "Hooraaay we're the best, we're number one, woo hoo!"Why not? That's all you are doing here.


I came here at the challenge of a Spurs fan on the ESPN board who claimed I was "afraid" to come here and post on this board. So here I am, doing what I do, which is talk about the game of basketball without a filter, honestly and openly. Sit back and pay close attention to what I have to say and you'll stand to learn a lot.Frankly, I already knew that many lakerfans are douches.

[history2b]

Why not? That's all you are doing here.

Frankly, I already knew that many lakerfans are douches.

ChumpDumper I'm officially making you history2b fanboy #1. Man_in_Black almost sealed it but fizzled at the last minute.

Get ready cause it's going to be a long season.

[ChumpDumper]

ChumpDumper I'm officially making you history2b fanboy #1. Man_in_Black almost sealed it but fizzled at the last minute.Ah, insecure lakerfan needs to act like he is in control and can actually dole out official titles on a spurboard.


Get ready cause it's going to be a long season.So you are going to continue trolling a spurboard because you want to make it personal with spurfans like you did on the ESPN boards and you think that being a fan of a basketball teams gives you some kind of magical power on the internets.

Good luck with that.

[senorglory]

Frankly, I already knew that many lakerfans are douches.

Apparently, there's some truth to this stereotype.

[Seventyniner]

The Spurs aren't contenders anyway, lol. Was the 2010 sweep of an ass kicking not wake up call enough for you? How many more times do you have to watch your Spurs fail miserably in the playoffs to understand this fact. I bet that if Tim was 50 years old playing in a wheel chair you'd be one of those fan boys claiming "Hey if Tim's out there on the floor we still have a shot."

When the Lakers got swept in 1999, they won the title the next year.

When the Spurs got swept in 2001, they won the title 2 years later.

How do you know that a sweep completely destroys a team? Anything can happen, and that's what keeps fans following the sport. If you insist that the Spurs have no chance, so be it. Just don't expect Spurs fans to agree with you, even if you brand your opinion as "fact" or "truth".

[dbestpro]

I care about basketball first and foremost and can talk about the game all day. .

Ok, what are the three most common types of screens in a motion offense?

....and for your bonus question what type of offense is a shuffle offense?

[Blackjack]

Actually it's not. You claimed you need to know who will be available so you can assess what moves to make. You can't because no one knows how things will shake up this season. Period. But you hold onto you hand in order to have the chance to make a play. Will anyone in this league, I'm talking every single one of the 29 other teams, touch Jefferson's contract now? Hell no.

No, I was correct: terrible and irrelevant analogy.

Not sure if you're from LA or just the typical front-running douche, so maybe there's some inherent lack of knowledge when it comes to burden of proof (if the glove don't fit...), but you suggested the Spurs were crazy for what they did.

The burden of proof lies with you to provide evidence that they were in fact crazy. Simply suggesting such without anything to back it up only makes you look like a douche or in over your head.


Of course. If he was overpaid, it was a bad deal. You can sit high and mighty in the first year of the restructuring priding yourself on the great move your franchise made in saving a couple of bucks in taxes this one season but in year 4 when a washed up 34 year old Jefferson is hobbled on the bench sucking the team for $11Million you'll still be singing the praise of the 2010-11 luxury tax savings extravaganza presumably right?

Overpaying a player doesn't mean the deal was bad or not the right thing to do under the circumstance. I was against the trade for RJ to start. I've been one of the biggest critics of his fit on this team. I've also come to believe the Spurs' logic was sound in restructuring his deal the way they did.

Why do I believe that? Because I followed the money and looked at the outside opportunities and probabilities as best I could.

Playing some good percentages -- as in, given their options and the probabilities of -- I've yet to hear or see you suggest anything better.


The Spurs aren't contenders anyway, lol. Was the 2010 sweep of an ass kicking not wake up call enough for you? How many more times do you have to watch your Spurs fail miserably in the playoffs to understand this fact. I bet that if Tim was 50 years old playing in a wheel chair you'd be one of those fan boys claiming "Hey if Tim's out there on the floor we still have a shot."

Are the Spurs a favorite? No. Are they a contender? Yes. Can they win without a solid trade? I don't believe so.

The Spurs beat the No. 2 seed last year without playing on all cylinders and ran into a hot team and bad matchup. There's no real great separation between 2-8. And to the notion that a team that gets swept the prior year is devoid of any chance to win a championship the following year?

Who knows ... maybe the reigning champions have their franchise player and All-Everything get injured, miss the playoffs and the team they swept the prior year wins it all.

Nah ... that could never happen.


Worse case scenario you let RJ's contract expire at the end of the 10-11 season and you wipe your hands clean and save even more money that could be appropriately spent on players worthwhile, whether it was your own free agents or through the MLE. Overpaying underachieving scrubs never works out for the better. Never.

Worst case scenario is you let Tim's final year(s) go by without doing everything in your power to win it all one more time.


You're not winning now. End of story.

I don't play and the season hasn't even started yet, so it's kinda not 'end of story.'


It won't matter. And at the end of the day they'll have shot themselves in the foot for their future in order to stubbornly and delusionally believe they still had a shot now. This is play out for all to see and know shortly. Guaranteed.

The only guarantee is your detachment from reality when it comes to basketball and finance outside of your LA team.

Seems to me you'd rather have your team make the perfect move rather than make the best move possible under the circumstance.

But I guess that's what happens when you're gifted an All-NBA big man that takes you from first-round fodder to back-to-back champions.

lol Lakerfan.

[duhoh]

bahaha history is getting crapped on. to us, you're a troll in a forum of trolls. raise yo game son! at our existing trolls are funny/entertaining.

i like how he's making all of these ridiculous statements saying how stupid it was to trade away pretty much a fossilized kurt thomas + bruce bowen for richard jefferson.

blackjack, you need speak no more

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

And then there's this from Henry Abbott:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/20185/gregg-popovich-and-richard-jefferson-work-overtime

This gives me a little hope for RJ in the coming season:


So Jefferson chose summer school, working out for two hours at a time with the Spurs' coaches all over the country. It was all basics: pivoting with the ball, jump-stopping, drills designed to improve his efficiency of movement on the court. On the defensive end, Jefferson got reinforcements on the Spurs' defensive concepts, which go into much greater detail than simply pushing everything baseline and keeping guards from dribble penetrations in the paint. He reported to camp last week with 7 percent body fat and a cut-up physique.

"I asked him if he wanted to reach his potential, or just let the next few years slough away and just put money in the bank," Popovich said. "He said 'I want to reach my potential.' "

I still hate his contract (we could have had a 15mil expiring trade chip at the deadline this year!), and I rate him a 27.2% chance of being the difference maker at the defensive end that we need him to be, but at least he's trying.

[Chieflion]

And then there's this from Henry Abbott:

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/20185/gregg-popovich-and-richard-jefferson-work-overtime

This gives me a little hope for RJ in the coming season:



I still hate his contract (we could have had a 15mil expiring trade chip at the deadline this year!), and I rate him a 27.2% chance of being the difference maker at the defensive end that we need him to be, but at least he's trying.

How did you come up with that percentage? :lol

[OrEmuN]

Worse case scenario you let RJ's contract expire at the end of the 10-11 season and you wipe your hands clean and save even more money that could be appropriately spent on players worthwhile, whether it was your own free agents or through the MLE. Overpaying underachieving scrubs never works out for the better. Never.


So when the Lakers traded Kwame for Pau Gasol ...

I am just pointing out the irony. Continue your trolling

[RuffnReadyOzStyle]

How did you come up with that percentage? :lol

Off the top of my head. I like to make gut reads sometimes. You'd be surprised how often I'm close. ;)

And really, all I'm saying is that he's a smidgeon less than 1-to-3 (or "3-to-1 on" as we say here) to be the wing defender we need him to be. Oh, and I threw the '7' in there because of his bodyfat percentage. :lmao

[Cessation]

This troll is pathetic, accusing others of delusion while acting so himself, if Perkins didnt get injured in the Finals, he'd still be crying himself to sleep, lol.

[Fabbs]

The Spurs beat the No. 2 seed last year without playing on all cylinders and ran into a hot team and bad matchup.
In the running for Lamest Excuse by Fanboy award.

[jag]

I am just pointing out the irony. Continue your trolling

:lol

[Blackjack]

In the running for Lamest Excuse by Fanboy award.

You know me, Fabulous, I'm certainly the resident Fanboy.

How is it the Spurs were able to beat the No. 2 seed before being swept, Fabulous?

[Fpoonsie]

Damn your an idiot

Jesus. If I had a nickel...

[Blackjack]

I still hate his contract (we could have had a 15mil expiring trade chip at the deadline this year!), and I rate him a 27.2% chance of being the difference maker at the defensive end that we need him to be, but at least he's trying.

If the Spurs weren't in a position where Tim's health and durability were in question and the team wasn't in the midst of one last-ditch effort to win one for the thumb with this group (the Big 3), I'd be much more upset about them not going the expiring route.

But think about it this way, what player(s) could be had for a $15.2M expiring that could fill a need better than RJ, or be a upgrade over him, that could adapt and help the team to win a championship in half of a season?

Again, I was against the initial trade. I've never liked the fit, as in he didn't address a need as much as he presented something different and somewhat attractive: a weapon at the 3 they hadn't had since Elliott.

I always think back to something pretty basic and brilliant that Mel_13 said a while back: the nature of an all-in bet is that you're all-in. (paraphrasing)

They're simply too far down the road at this point and at this stage of the game with this team (Big 3). Since that '09 loss to the Mavs they've made it their focus to address the talent level, corporate knowledge and address their shortcomings as best possible.

08-09 (Playoff Roster)

10-11 (So Far)

Tony Parker - Tony Parker
Tim Duncan - Tim Duncan
Manu Ginobili - Manu Ginobili
Matt Bonner - Matt Bonner
George Hill - George Hill
Roger Mason - Neal
Michael Finley - Anderson
Kurt Thomas - Splitter
Ime Udoka - Simmons
Bruce Bowen - Richard Jefferson
Drew Gooden - Blair
Fabricio Oberto - McDyess
Jacque Vaughn - Temple
Malik Hairston - Gee


The talent's definitely been upgraded -- whether by addition or development -- and the team's kept last year's bulk of the roster intact, which should help to cultivate some sort of corporate knowledge.

That's 2 out of 3 ... not bad, most likely not enough.

It is what it is.

[ohmwrecker]

You know me, Fabulous, I'm certainly the resident Fanboy.

How is it the Spurs were able to beat the No. 2 seed before being swept, Fabulous?

HarlemHeat called me the biggest homer on Spurstalk, so I got to be in the running.
Harlem is certainly not one to exaggerate or over-hype anything . . . He is trustworthy and loyal, not the kind of guy who would jump ship or bandwagon another team when things get rough . . .

It's funny how, as the season draws near, everyone is coming around to my way of thinking. Blackjack is right, Fabbs. Lame excuse or not, that's what happened.

The 2010-2011 San Antonio Spurs . . . It Is What It Is.

[history2b]

I am just pointing out the irony. Continue your trolling

Expiring contract. Look to trade that asset in 2014 when his contract expires too so you can build around Duncan, errr Manu, errr, umm, Dejuan Blair and James Anderson, lol.

As opposed to 2011, when his contract would have expired and that vastly overpaid bargaining chip could have yielded a superstar to play with Tim and Manu in their twilight years opening up the possibility of actually returning to contender status.

If not hold your breath and hope that in 4 years when RJ is an expiring contract you too can repeat that magic that the Lakers did with Gasol.

[history2b]

HarlemHeat called me the biggest homer on Spurstalk, so I got to be in the running.
Harlem is certainly not one to exaggerate or over-hype anything . . . He is trustworthy and loyal, not the kind of guy who would jump ship or bandwagon another team when things get rough . . .

It's funny how, as the season draws near, everyone is coming around to my way of thinking. Blackjack is right, Fabbs. Lame excuse or not, that's what happened.

The 2010-2011 San Antonio Spurs . . . It Is What It Is.



Because the #2 seed sucked.

[jag]

I'm impressed with blackjack. I feel like the emotional shock of seeing Hairston leave was clouding his thinking...but it appears that time does in fact heal all wounds. So far I can't say i've disagreed with one thing you've said in this thread concerning RJ and his contract.

[jag]

Expiring contract. Look to trade that asset in 2014 when his contract expires too so you can build around Duncan, errr Manu, errr, umm, Dejuan Blair and James Anderson, lol.

As opposed to 2011, when his contract would have expired and that vastly overpaid bargaining chip could have yielded a superstar to play with Tim and Manu in their twilight years opening up the possibility of actually returning to contender status.

If not hold your breath and hope that in 4 years when RJ is an expiring contract you too can repeat that magic that the Lakers did with Gasol.


You do realize he opted out of his contract, right?

[Blackjack]

HarlemHeat called me the biggest homer on Spurstalk, so I got to be in the running.
Harlem is certainly not one to exaggerate or over-hype anything . . . He is trustworthy and loyal, not the kind of guy who would jump ship or bandwagon another team when things get rough . . .

It's funny how, as the season draws near, everyone is coming around to my way of thinking. Blackjack is right, Fabbs. Lame excuse or not, that's what happened.

The 2010-2011 San Antonio Spurs . . . It Is What It Is.

I am not afraid of you and I will beat your ass for the No. 1 Fanboy award.

[Blackjack]

I'm impressed with blackjack. I feel like the emotional shock of seeing Hairston leave was clouding his thinking...but it appears that time does in fact heal all wounds. So far I can't say i've disagreed with one thing you've said in this thread concerning RJ and his contract.

Nah, I just played up something I was right about but wasn't all that significant in the grand scheme of things - beat the alternative at the time.

The only thing clouded IS THIS ROOM FROM THE THC!!! :smokin

:elephant :elephant :elephant

[history2b]

No, I was correct: terrible and irrelevant analogy.

Not sure if you're from LA or just the typical front-running douche, so maybe there's some inherent lack of knowledge when it comes to burden of proof (if the glove don't fit...), but you suggested the Spurs were crazy for what they did.

The burden of proof lies with you to provide evidence that they were in fact crazy. Simply suggesting such without anything to back it up only makes you look like a douche or in over your head.

You're right to claim you have to know who is going to be available come February during the trade frenzy ahead of time before you make moves in the summer? Have you been a moron your whole life or is this idiotic stance just a position you've decided to take because you're a typical Spurs homer who will rationalize every move the Spurs make as a positive because, well, you're a Spurs homer?

Here's your quote:

"What piece or pieces would have been available to be had, and would said piece(s) make them better off on the court or financially after restructuring the contract?"

This is the unknown. Something that cannot be projected and the example I gave provided what can happen. If you think that's a poor example you're a moron. No one knew Gasol would be traded for pennies on the dollar and the Lakers capitalized. When he have a $15M expiring contract you put yourself in position to gain in this way or worst case scenario he expires and you never pay him the $30M+ you'll owe him in 12, 13, and 14. Yes, the math of saving money now is important to the short sighted homer fan boy looking out for Peter Holt's money but it still eliminates the Spurs from being a true player in these final years of Tim's career. Bad move.




Overpaying a player doesn't mean the deal was bad or not the right thing to do under the circumstance. I was against the trade for RJ to start. I've been one of the biggest critics of his fit on this team. I've also come to believe the Spurs' logic was sound in restructuring his deal the way they did.

Why do I believe that? Because I followed the money and looked at the outside opportunities and probabilities as best I could.

Playing some good percentages -- as in, given their options and the probabilities of -- I've yet to hear or see you suggest anything better.

You can follow the money and rationalize if you like but I'm going to put basketball first, not the money. Saving Holt money in 2011 is really not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of the Spurs. RJ would have expired and you never would have had to pay him a dime again, opting to more wisely send money to contributing players / future free agents.

A cheap alternative SF option could have been found this summer; Travis Outlaw, Anthony Morrow, Matt Barnes, etc were all bargain deals as examples. Houston gave up Trevor Ariza for garbage and Shane Battier may also be on the block next.

Logic says it doesn't have to be a direct trade with a division rival too for the simple minded and short sighted.

But you have no shot at any of this because you took yourself out of the game in order save a few bucks now and you're stuck with Richard Jefferson until 2014 even though he's already in the washed up old bum category. It's only going to get worse.



Are the Spurs a favorite? No. Are they a contender? Yes. Can they win without a solid trade? I don't believe so.


LOL! They need a solid trade to win but even so they are a contender now? Making logical sense seems to be an afterthought for you. I've met guys like you before and it's always the same story; you're fairly bright and seem to understand the game well enough but you're so hell bent on being a homer you don't even see how you don't make sense. You remind me of a guy on the espn board; SacRules99. Are you related?


The Spurs beat the No. 2 seed last year without playing on all cylinders and ran into a hot team and bad matchup. There's no real great separation between 2-8. And to the notion that a team that gets swept the prior year is devoid of any chance to win a championship the following year?

Whoop dee doo, the Mavericks suck. You also got swept by the Suns which is much more revealing than celebrating a 1st round victory.


Who knows ... maybe the reigning champions have their franchise player and All-Everything get injured, miss the playoffs and the team they swept the prior year wins it all.

Nah ... that could never happen.


Yeah! Bank on everyone else to get injured in order to win. Classic logic.



Worst case scenario is you let Tim's final year(s) go by without doing everything in your power to win it all one more time.

Congratulations. You've done exactly that by restructuring Jefferson's contract and handicapping your roster for 4 more years. Bye bye Timmy! Don't let the door hit you on your way out!:lmao




I don't play and the season hasn't even started yet, so it's kinda not 'end of story.'

Are the Wizards contenders because the season hasn't started or do you have a brain to decipher what constitutes a true contender?




The only guarantee is your detachment from reality when it comes to basketball and finance outside of your LA team.

Seems to me you'd rather have your team make the perfect move rather than make the best move possible under the circumstance.

But I guess that's what happens when you're gifted an All-NBA big man that takes you from first-round fodder to back-to-back champions.

lol Lakerfan.

Detachment from reality for saying that re-signing Richard Jefferson (terrible NBA player at 30) to a 4 year contract is a bad move?? Lol. Thanks delusional Spurs fan boy but I absolutely guarantee this unbelievably ignorant premise you seemingly take a lot of pride in believing right now will be exposed in due time. Each year that hideous contract gets even worse and the implications of awarding that contract cannot be understood now to begin with.

Again, as a Laker fan i'm rejoicing over this contract. It eliminated the remote possibility of the Spurs assembling a championship core around Duncan in his twilight years. I think it's hilarious too.

And fyi the "best move possible under the circumstance" would be the "perfect move" all things considered.

Good luck with Jefferson over the next 4 years!

[jag]

It's entertaining watching Lakerfan try to convince everyone that having D-League players fill the entire SF rotation is actually the smart way to go.

[ChumpDumper]

No one knew Gasol would be traded for pennies on the dollarhttp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/78/Jerry_West.jpg

Actually, he and anyone who actually follows basketball knew that would happen. People who love the game first knew that.

[history2b]

It's entertaining watching Lakerfan try to convince everyone that having D-League players fill the entire SF rotation is actually the smart way to go.


As opposed to paying a D league caliber player $39 million over 4 years?

You guys sure are smart.

[history2b]

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/78/Jerry_West.jpg

Actually, he and anyone who actually follows basketball knew that would happen. People who love the game first knew that.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2840564

Smart fans usually use facts as evidence but retarded fan boys will be retarded fan boys.

[ChumpDumper]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=2840564

Smart fans usually use facts as evidence but retarded fan boys will be retarded fan boys.I knew you would take the bait.

It's so easy to troll a troll. Especially Laker trolls.

Notice I didn't say what he knew that everyone who follows basketball also knew. You are too eager to defend your beloved team.

lol objective.

[Drachen]

I agree, I think it's funny that you are a preseason warrior who puffs out his chest and talks up the Spurs in October and November and once they predictably start sputtering you disappear and wait for winning streaks to come back and actually discuss the game.

I consider fans like that sackless but to each their own.


... says the guy with 98 posts trying to devolop pre-conceived notions. Go back 100 pages and see how active this place was all year last year.

[jag]

As opposed to paying a D league caliber player $39 million over 4 years?

You guys sure are smart.


And what do you care about what the Spurs do financially? Are you multi-millionaire Peter Holt's beneficiary?

It's not my money. And getting RJ off the books didn't open money to sign free agents considering it was RJ's contract that put the Spurs over the cap.

Do your best to convince me that Alonzo Gee is better than Richard Jefferson. GO

[history2b]

I knew you would take the bait.

It's so easy to troll a troll. Especially Laker trolls.

Notice I didn't say what he knew that everyone who follows basketball also knew. You are too eager to defend your beloved team.

lol objective.


Wow, great troll post.

Pointing out that Jerry West stepped down from his position in Memphis is not defending the Lakers at all. It was stating the obvious.

Does logic ever make it's way into any of your posts?

[ChumpDumper]

Wow, great troll post.

Pointing out that Jerry West stepped down from his position in Memphis is not defending the Lakers at all. It was stating the obvious.

Does logic ever make it's way into any of your posts?Absolutely.

You still haven't used any logic in deducing why everyone else who really follows basketball -- not lakerfan douche trolls who merely claim to in an ttempt to distract from their trolling -- knew exactly what West knew.

You just outed yourself as ignorant after outing yourself as a troll.

Good job! :tu

Stick around. You might learn something.

[history2b]

Absolutely.

You still haven't used any logic in deducing why everyone else who really follows basketball -- not lakerfan douche trolls who merely claim to in an ttempt to distract from their trolling -- knew exactly what West knew.

You just outed yourself as ignorant after outing yourself as a troll.

Good job! :tu

Stick around. You might learn something.

You're welcome to back up your statements with actual facts and not cryptic hogwash without a leg to stand on.

I'm going to go ahead and guess that you'll continue your little game of playing coy and not actually producing anything of substance because you are a classic message board troll.

[Blackjack]

You're right to claim you have to know who is going to be available come February during the trade frenzy ahead of time before you make moves in the summer?

No, spanky. You claimed it to be a terrible and crazy move, slapnuts. I asked you to provide an alternative, son.

The burden of proof is on you when you lay forth an allegation or make a judgment from opinion.

What would you have them done if they were your team?


Have you been a moron your whole life or is this idiotic stance just a position you've decided to take because you're a typical Spurs homer who will rationalize every move the Spurs make as a positive because, well, you're a Spurs homer?

Facts are fun.

If your team happened to be in a small market and their cashcow wasn't done but was nearing its end, what would you do, ace? Do you pass on doing the best you can under the circumstance -- even if not the most ideal -- or do you pull the trigger and go forth on something that gives you at least a shot at getting better and attaining your objective, goober?


Here's your quote:

"What piece or pieces would have been available to be had, and would said piece(s) make them better off on the court or financially after restructuring the contract?"

Great quote. You should quote me more often.


This is the unknown. Something that cannot be projected and the example I gave provided what can happen. If you think that's a poor example you're a moron. No one knew Gasol would be traded for pennies on the dollar and the Lakers capitalized. When he have a $15M expiring contract you put yourself in position to gain in this way or worst case scenario he expires and you never pay him the $30M+ you'll owe him in 12, 13, and 14. Yes, the math of saving money now is important to the short sighted homer fan boy looking out for Peter Holt's money but it still eliminates the Spurs from being a true player in these final years of Tim's career. Bad move.

The Lakers and Spurs are and were not in comparable situations, tiger. The Lakers were in rebuild mode while trying to appease their star. They weren't relevant from 05-07. They made some financial gambles and ended up getting bailed out by their farm club - they don't have a problem taking financial gambles because they've got an owner like Buss who's willing to pay, yuck-yuck.

Gasol's acquisition had nothing to do with intelligent moves, it was pure luck and/or collusion.

But go ahead and give me some type of hypothetical where the Spurs land a 'Gasol' with the contract RJ opted out of, young'n.


You can follow the money and rationalize if you like but I'm going to put basketball first, not the money. Saving Holt money in 2011 is really not that big of a deal in the grand scheme of the Spurs. RJ would have expired and you never would have had to pay him a dime again, opting to more wisely send money to contributing players / future free agents.

The future is now, silly goose. Tim's in maybe his final year with a CBA up for renegotiation next year, lad. MLE and minimum players weren't going to put this team closer to a title this year, sweetheart.

Restructuring the contract allowed them to field a more talented team, while sustaining a business model that sustains the organization.

Would you like to tell me that you know how to run the Spurs' books better than they do?

You honestly don't believe this is all part of a business model and gameplan that they've put together that will allow them to compete now and manage the finances to a level Holt deems manageable, hoss?


A cheap alternative SF option could have been found this summer; Travis Outlaw, Anthony Morrow, Matt Barnes, etc were all bargain deals as examples. Houston gave up Trevor Ariza for garbage and Shane Battier may also be on the block next.

Travis Outlaw cheap?

Anthony Morrow can defend the 3?

Matt Barnes would have picked the Spurs over Lakers?

The Rockets were looking to trade Ariza for another small forward?

Trading for Shane Battier during the season puts the Spurs in beter position to win a title?


Logic says it doesn't have to be a direct trade with a division rival too for the simple minded and short sighted.

Logic says you don't read all that well or think things out all that much before responding emotionally in your homeristically douchebaggdiom fashion.


But you have no shot at any of this because you took yourself out of the game in order save a few bucks now and you're stuck with Richard Jefferson until 2014 even though he's already in the washed up old bum category. It's only going to get worse.

Again, I don't play, and I haven't taken myself out of anything, silly rabbit. I await your solution and alternative to what the Spurs have done.


LOL! They need a solid trade to win but even so they are a contender now? Making logical sense seems to be an afterthought for you. I've met guys like you before and it's always the same story; you're fairly bright and seem to understand the game well enough but you're so hell bent on being a homer you don't even see how you don't make sense. You remind me of a guy on the espn board; SacRules99. Are you related?

A solid trade doesn't mean Gasol, freckles. Adding a decent role player should suffice. They're a contender whether you like it or not; who knows what can happen if a team sustains an injury??? :wow

The Spurs could very easily finish 2-4 in the West this year. They're good enough to take advantage of some good fortune. They're in contention, not favorites. Comprende, Jose?


Whoop dee doo, the Mavericks suck. You also got swept by the Suns which is much more revealing than celebrating a 1st round victory.

That's some pretty sound and reasonable logic. "The Mavericks suck."

It's funny how bent you are after back-to-back championships. I asked you for an explanation as to why the Spurs were morons and what you would have rather had them do. You've offered nothing of reason: They should have let him expire! Put your eggs in a Gasol-like trade basket! Punt and look to win championships down the road when Duncan is no longer an elite player or even around!

lol Lakerfan and the divorcement from reality.

Your front-running ass doesn't realize championships and championship-caliber players don't come around -- and aren't expected to -- for the vast majority of NBA-folk (i.e., non-Laker-folk).


Congratulations. You've done exactly that by restructuring Jefferson's contract and handicapping your roster for 4 more years. Bye bye Timmy! Don't let the door hit you on your way out!:lmao

Your density is adorable, pumpkin. :lol

[Blackjack]

I'm going to go ahead and guess that you'll continue your little game of playing coy and not actually producing anything of substance because you are a classic message board troll.

I

Run

E


:rollin

[ohmwrecker]

Because the #2 seed sucked.

Yet, all the "experts" had them pegged as the team best equipped to beat the Lakers . . . and the Spurs beat them . . . soundly . . . hmmm . . . .

[history2b]

No, spanky. You claimed it to be a terrible and crazy move, slapnuts. I asked you to provide an alternative, son.

The burden of proof is on you when you lay forth an allegation or make a judgment from opinion.

What would you have them done if they were your team?

Hmmm, I seemed to have hit a nerve considering the ensuing "lad, sweetheart, ace" comments. That was easy.

Perhaps we'll actually make a breakthrough this time and communication will be understood.

What part of not extending Richard Jefferson do you not understand? You keep asking for an alternative when I've layed out various possibilities repeatedly. I really shouldn't be that complicated.




Facts are fun.

If your team happened to be in a small market and their cashcow wasn't done but was nearing its end, what would you do, ace? Do you pass on doing the best you can under the circumstance -- even if not the most ideal -- or do you pull the trigger and go forth on something that gives you at least a shot at getting better and attaining your objective, goober?

I love how you cling to the idea of being "small market" as some kind of handicap for not being able to make bold moves. I understand your mentality clearly; conservatism at all costs because it is the safest route.

Meanwhile you didn't "get better" by re-signing Richard Jefferson to a long term contract. In fact it is the opposite.




The Lakers and Spurs are and were not in comparable situations, tiger. The Lakers were in rebuild mode while trying to appease their star. They weren't relevant from 05-07. They made some financial gambles and ended up getting bailed out by their farm club - they don't have a problem taking financial gambles because they've got an owner like Buss who's willing to pay, yuck-yuck.

You're right they are different. One franchise has repeatedly pulled off the moves to successfully rebuild and retool championship teams over 5 generations and one has had 1 successful era due to a lucky bounce of a ping pong ball in a draft lottery in 1997.

Can't expect a team with dumb luck to actually know what it takes to get back on top. "getting bailed out by their farm club" only illustrates a level of bitterness and stupidity that was to be expected from a bona fide Spurs homer to the highest power.


Gasol's acquisition had nothing to do with intelligent moves, it was pure luck and/or collusion.

Collusion? lol. My god you are one delusional schmuck. There was some luck involved because it had to do with having the right pieces at the right time. Timing is everything in this league.

But we know for certain that had the Lakers extended Kwame Brown to a multi-year extention in the summer of 2007 that Pau Gasol trade never would have happened because they wouldn't have had the expiring contract necessary to complete the deal. Gee, I wonder how anyone could have the magical insight to understand the power of an expiring contract in today's NBA? Without prior knowledge of who will become available there is no way to properly evaluate this type of scenario. :rolleyes


But go ahead and give me some type of hypothetical where the Spurs land a 'Gasol' with the contract RJ opted out of, young'n.

You want to talk about "collusion" talk about Richard Jefferson opting out of a guaranteed $15.2M contract for one year and then re-signing with the Spurs for $8.4M WELL ABOVE HIS CURRENT MARKET VALUE for multiple years despite bombing out in embarrassing fashion throughout his one season in SA.

That said, once RJ opted out of his contract the Spurs were not obligated to pay him a cent. But they did. A lot of them too. Talk about a horrendous allocation of resources, lol. That was one of the worst contracts ever awarded in the history of the NBA.

Cheaper, more reliable options were available on the open market at that point.


The future is now, silly goose. Tim's in maybe his final year with a CBA up for renegotiation next year, lad. MLE and minimum players weren't going to put this team closer to a title this year, sweetheart.

But Richard Jefferson puts them closer for $39Million?? :lmao


Restructuring the contract allowed them to field a more talented team, while sustaining a business model that sustains the organization.

Had Jefferson not bombed out in his first season would he have opted out of his contract? Imagine he played really really well. Well enough to warrant his $15.2M contract. Then what? The Spurs knew clearly they were acquiring a 2 year contract back in June 09, so they were committing to that financial obligation upfront.

Now all of sudden it was imperative to restructure that contract in order to "sustain a business model that sustains the organization." You humor me with your pre-conceived rationalizations rah rah rahing the organizations every move. Homer.


Would you like to tell me that you know how to run the Spurs' books better than they do?

I wouldn't be lying if I said yes. The Richard Jefferson trade was a bad move to begin with but then to re-sign him to a 4 year contract? Lol.



You honestly don't believe this is all part of a business model and gameplan that they've put together that will allow them to compete now and manage the finances to a level Holt deems manageable, hoss?

Don't care what their business model is nor should any basketball fan. The Clippers have a business model and gameplan too. And? So do the Wizards. And the Warriors too? I guess we have to respect their plans as being perfect too.



Travis Outlaw cheap?

Compared to Richard Jefferson? Lol. Gee let me pull out my calculator.


Anthony Morrow can defend the 3?

Can Richard Jefferson? No. Is Morrow a role player? Yes. Is RJ? No. Are you now looking for the 'perfect' option or would you be satisfied with the "best available option?"


Matt Barnes would have picked the Spurs over Lakers?

If they offered more money, sure? He wasn't knocking on the Lakers door until all other deals for more money fell through first. And yes the Spurs could have offered more.


The Rockets were looking to trade Ariza for another small forward?

It was a 4 way trade that other teams got involved in in order to make the deal happen. Didn't have to be a direct trade as stated following your miscalculated quoting of this comment.


Trading for Shane Battier during the season puts the Spurs in beter position to win a title?

Better than Richard Jefferson? lol. You got jokes don't you?



Logic says you don't read all that well or think things out all that much before responding emotionally in your homeristically douchebaggdiom fashion.

Nope.



Again, I don't play, and I haven't taken myself out of anything, silly rabbit. I await your solution and alternative to what the Spurs have done.

It's been layed out several times now. Be big boy and try to put it all together.




A solid trade doesn't mean Gasol, freckles. Adding a decent role player should suffice. They're a contender whether you like it or not; who knows what can happen if a team sustains an injury??? :wow

I completely agree. It does not mean Gasol. But regardless, your team is not a contender. You seem to have a serious problem understanding what constitutes a "contender." About 20 teams in the league are "one good trade away" from being a contender.

Time to hit the books harder and think before you post this ridiculous nonsense fan boy.


The Spurs could very easily finish 2-4 in the West this year. They're good enough to take advantage of some good fortune. They're in contention, not favorites. Comprende, Jose?

Maybe they do, maybe they don't. They could just as easily get the 8th spot or miss the playoffs altogether too. Getting a 2-4 seed in a watered down conference does not make you a contender. There is one true contender in the West and a maybe a couple of young up and coming teams that are looking to make a leap. Then there are the carcasses of teams that once were there and delusionally still believe they're there.



That's some pretty sound and reasonable logic. "The Mavericks suck."

Because it is true. They do suck. Crap teams battling out of the 1st round is unimpressive. Your team has won exactly 1 playoff series in 2 years. Cling to it as impressive all you want but know that I'm going stay right where I am in the real world where that is thoroughly pathetic.


It's funny how bent you are after back-to-back championships. I asked you for an explanation as to why the Spurs were morons and what you would have rather had them do. You've offered nothing of reason: They should have let him expire! Put your eggs in a Gasol-like trade basket! Punt and look to win championships down the road when Duncan is no longer an elite player or even around!

Yup, keep him as a trade chip and if that doesn't work out let him expire and move on.

To understand my position you have to come down from your platform of delusion that somehow believes that having Jefferson on your team long term makes you contenders. It doesn't. Your team is middle of the pack in the West with Jefferson or without. He was guaranteed to be on the roster this one final year regardless.

You'd have the EXACT SAME ROSTER. Lol.



Y
our front-running ass doesn't realize championships and championship-caliber players don't come around -- and aren't expected to -- for the vast majority of NBA-folk (i.e., non-Laker-folk).



Your density is adorable, pumpkin. :lol


Blah blah blah, my poor little small market team has all the odds stacked against them, woe is me, we do the best we can. lol.

Doesn't mean you make stupid moves like re-sign Richard Jefferson for 4 years at $39 M WELL ABOVE his market value in a wink wink deal to save a few bucks this year. Dumb move.

[Blackjack]

I might read all of that, I might not.

We'll see pumpkin. ;)

[Blackjack]

You believe the Spurs and RJ had a prearranged deal. Logical. Fair enough.

You believe the Spurs should have prearranged the deal and reneged on said deal - or you haven't a clue that the Spurs couldn't have used anything other than their exceptions -- regardless if RJ opted in or out -- because the team is over the cap.

You seem to think that the Spurs and any team with a comparable owner and market should have no problem winning championships with a soft cap and without the Duncans Shaqs and Kobes of the world. (Detachment: look it up.)

You believe RJ is a scrub. He's not, he's a bad fit.

You believe Tony Parker's the worst defender in the league, but you're 'objective.' :lol

lol homer/fanboy talk

Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Pop, Buford, among others, have all alluded to this year likely being their last shot at winning a title with the Big 3. They're trying to win one last time while Duncan is still among the elite of the league (tell me he's not Mr. Objectivity).

Again, I wasn't for the initial trade. Had they been able to get an Iguodala for him last year, I would have pulled the trigger in a heartbeat. But that time's past.

The Spurs put their chips in with the idea of RJ being a piece to their championship puzzle and they have no choice but to make it work. They're too far down the road, too much time invested and the options are minimal and improbable without RJ aboard

Would you mind telling us how you can be presented with the financial facts and reality, tell us it doesn't matter to you, but use its importance as the basis for an argument moving forward, princess?

Again, what would you have had the Spurs do to give them the best chance at winning a championship this year?

You can either have RJ and the exceptions or;

the exceptions and no RJ.

Fact of the matter is, RJ alluded to opting out as far back as April (http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/04/11/spurs-jefferson-pondering-possibility-of-opting-out-of-contract/). Whether the Spurs managed to prearrange a deal or not, his goal was to secure more guaranteed money over the life of his contract. No one knew or believed prior to him opting out that the market would be as dry as it turned out for his services; and the fact that it took so long for him to re-sign with the Spurs would leave the logical to believe he may have had an offer on the table, but he would be elsewhere had that offer been matched or exceeded.

So it's not simply, 'bring back the expiring.' And even if you make that leap, you're left to hope for the perfect trade -- a seamless fit -- that can get you over the hump and upgrade the roster over RJ.

The Spurs aren't that far off, spanky. The Lakers are a hell of a team, and they're clearly the best team in the West. but they're not leaps and bounds better than everyone else. You do realize the Thunder -- the 8 seed -- took them to 7, right? (And you might wanna to do a little brushing up on the history of basketball and the Spurs - may only have 4 titles but they've been quite the successful bunch, pumpkin.;))

Toodle pip, mucca!

[history2b]

You believe the Spurs and RJ had a prearranged deal. Logical. Fair enough.

You believe the Spurs should have prearranged the deal and reneged on said deal - or you haven't a clue that the Spurs couldn't have used anything other than their exceptions -- regardless if RJ opted in or out -- because the team is over the cap.

You seem to think that the Spurs and any team with a comparable owner and market should have no problem winning championships with a soft cap and without the Duncans Shaqs and Kobes of the world. (Detachment: look it up.)

You believe RJ is a scrub. He's not, he's a bad fit.

You believe Tony Parker's the worst defender in the league, but you're 'objective.' :lol

lol homer/fanboy talk

Duncan, Parker, Ginobili, Pop, Buford, among others, have all alluded to this year likely being their last shot at winning a title with the Big 3. They're trying to win one last time while Duncan is still among the elite of the league (tell me he's not Mr. Objectivity).

Again, I wasn't for the initial trade. Had they been able to get an Iguodala for him last year, I would have pulled the trigger in a heartbeat. But that time's past.

The Spurs put their chips in with the idea of RJ being a piece to their championship puzzle and they have no choice but to make it work. They're too far down the road, too much time invested and the options are minimal and improbable without RJ aboard

Would you mind telling us how you can be presented with the financial facts and reality, tell us it doesn't matter to you, but use its importance as the basis for an argument moving forward, princess?

Again, what would you have had the Spurs do to give them the best chance at winning a championship this year?

You can either have RJ and the exceptions or;

the exceptions and no RJ.

Fact of the matter is, RJ alluded to opting out as far back as April (http://nba.fanhouse.com/2010/04/11/spurs-jefferson-pondering-possibility-of-opting-out-of-contract/). Whether the Spurs managed to prearrange a deal or not, his goal was to secure more guaranteed money over the life of his contract. No one knew or believed prior to him opting out that the market would be as dry as it turned out for his services; and the fact that it took so long for him to re-sign with the Spurs would leave the logical to believe he may have had an offer on the table, but he would be elsewhere had that offer been matched or exceeded.

So it's not simply, 'bring back the expiring.' And even if you make that leap, you're left to hope for the perfect trade -- a seamless fit -- that can get you over the hump and upgrade the roster over RJ.

The Spurs aren't that far off, spanky. The Lakers are a hell of a team, and they're clearly the best team in the West. but they're not leaps and bounds better than everyone else. You do realize the Thunder -- the 8 seed -- took them to 7, right? (And you might wanna to do a little brushing up on the history of basketball and the Spurs - may only have 4 titles but they've been quite the successful bunch, pumpkin.;))

Toodle pip, mucca!


Wisely using the exceptions on players that actually fit not scrubs who do not fit would seem to make the most sense from a basketball perspective.

You choose not to do this when ample talent is available at "bargain" prices (you seemed to have wrapped your head around this concept now) when you colluded with your own player to work out a long term contract for well above market value. Not smart, period.

You seem to think that having Jefferson on this team affects the teams championship aspirations when it doesn't because 1) he doesn't fit 2) he's a scrub 3) even if he plays well the Spurs aren't contenders

Duncan is no longer dominant. This is not news, this is a fact. Evidenced by his inability to impact a playoff series just as he didn't versus Phoenix. Guards were waltzing into the lane for lay up drill on Duncan's watch all throughout that series. Was that the Duncan of old? Of course not. And only delusional fan boys with their nose jammed in a stat sheet believe otherwise.

I think the root of our problem here is that you believe the Spurs have a chance and I am clearly on the side that says they're irrelevant pretenders.

Guess we'll have to see how this season shapes up and see who is right. I sure hope that investment pans out for the Spurs for your sake as your credibility in this forum will rely heavily on this. I can't wait guess this is like Deja vu for me.

[Blackjack]

Wisely using the exceptions on players that actually fit not scrubs who do not fit would seem to make the most sense from a basketball perspective.

They did. RJ had no bearing on the exceptions, sweetie.


You choose not to do this when ample talent is available at "bargain" prices (you seemed to have wrapped your head around this concept now) when you colluded with your own player to work out a long term contract for well above market value. Not smart, period.

What role players at bargain prices make the Spurs better than what they are with or without RJ?

lol 'you colluded.'


You seem to think that having Jefferson on this team affects the teams championship aspirations when it doesn't because 1) he doesn't fit 2) he's a scrub 3) even if he plays well the Spurs aren't contenders

You seem to think you know what you're talking about because; a.) you keep typing; b.) you don't let the facts get in the way of a good argument; and c.) you seem to believe you're getting over and trolling here.

You really should have just told the Spurs they weren't going to win a championship no matter how hard they tried, how much they paid and that they should have traded Duncan to a team that could use him. It really would have saved the whole organization and fandom a lot of time and energy.

Way to drop the ball, sugartits. Way to look out for your fellow man. :td


Duncan is no longer dominant. This is not news, this is a fact. Evidenced by his inability to impact a playoff series just as he didn't versus Phoenix. Guards were waltzing into the lane for lay up drill on Duncan's watch all throughout that series. Was that the Duncan of old? Of course not. And only delusional fan boys with their nose jammed in a stat sheet believe otherwise.

Duncan is not dominant is fact? There's some objectivity. :lmao

He ain't what he used to be but he's still the second or third best 4/5 in the entire league. GTFO. :lmao


I think the root of our problem here is that you believe the Spurs have a chance and I am clearly on the side that says they're irrelevant pretenders.

The problem here is you came into this arena looking to regulate rather than answer the questions asked. You have an opinion, I asked you to explain it. You've failed to do so -- I never touted the Spurs as the next champ or that I was in love with the RJ contract, or anything else to that effect.

You said the Spurs were crazy for resigning RJ. I said I understand why they did it given the options and financial implications: they made a promise to Tim they'd do everything in their power to put the best team out on the floor possible as his career wound to a close. That's why Tim sacrificed millions on his extension and that's why -- even if it's not the most ideal of situations -- the Spurs were willing to do what they did.

I don't expect a championship and have never pretended to. I believe they're a little more than a gatekeeper at this point: better than most, not quite the best.

But it's not out of the realm they could find a way to get or develop the right piece(s) and stay healthy enough to win another title. There are no guarantees, which is something you just don't quite grasp.


Guess we'll have to see how this season shapes up and see who is right. I sure hope that investment pans out for the Spurs for your sake as your credibility in this forum will rely heavily on this. I can't wait guess this is like Deja vu for me.

See, blinded by your self-importance and wish to be right you've missed the whole reason for discourse:

You've already said the money doesn't mean anything to you, so what would you have had the Spurs do this year to put the best team together:

exceptions and RJ or;

exceptions and no RJ?

All the rest is conjecture and hypothetical.

[OrEmuN]

Expiring contract. Look to trade that asset in 2014 when his contract expires too so you can build around Duncan, errr Manu, errr, umm, Dejuan Blair and James Anderson, lol.

As opposed to 2011, when his contract would have expired and that vastly overpaid bargaining chip could have yielded a superstar to play with Tim and Manu in their twilight years opening up the possibility of actually returning to contender status.

If not hold your breath and hope that in 4 years when RJ is an expiring contract you too can repeat that magic that the Lakers did with Gasol.

Look. We understand the value of expiring contract. You just think too highly of yourself. Except RJ is not an expiring contract last season. He opted out. In any case, you are not giving an explanation to your statements. You went to explain about expiring contract because you know you had no answer about what I have pointed out to you

To reiterate my point & to make sure you understand the irony of your own sentences, I repeat what you said:
"Overpaying underachieving scrubs never works out for the better. Never."
Essentially Lakers paid that underachieving scrub namely Kwame Brown for 3 yrs (2005-2008) before trading him for Pau which worked out nicely for the Lakers. And you said overpaying underachieving scrubs never works out for the better ?!!

You just contradicted yourself there and then. There is no need to discuss anymore basketball matters after this since you have proven that you are just trolling with flippant sentences like these.

[ChumpDumper]

You're welcome to back up your statements with actual facts and not cryptic hogwash without a leg to stand on.

I'm going to go ahead and guess that you'll continue your little game of playing coy and not actually producing anything of substance because you are a classic message board troll.Hey, it's not my fault you didn't and still don't know what West and everyone who follows basketball knew back then.

There is nothing cryptic about your ignorance.

I'm going to go ahead and guess that you'll whine more that I am not spoon feeding your ignorant troll ass.

And here you were saying you were going to educate us.

:lmao

[Cessation]

This troll is a sucker for getting owned, lol.

[manustarting2gd]

check out this article i found... titled will he bounce back..referring to rj this season...
and why he WILL. Do i agree with it , no. But here is some supporting documentation if you will for those that think Rj will step up after being punked by Pop.

http://nbaplaybook.com/2010/07/22/can-he-bounce-back-richard-jefferson/

[SpursFanFirst]

He reported to camp last week with 7 percent body fat and a cut-up physique.
:wow Holy smokes!

[MaNu4Tres]

check out this article i found... titled will he bounce back..referring to rj this season...
and why he WILL. Do i agree with it , no. But here is some supporting documentation if you will for those that think Rj will step up after being punked by Pop.

http://nbaplaybook.com/2010/07/22/can-he-bounce-back-richard-jefferson/



"The reason Jefferson’s attempts are down is that he just doesn’t have the same athletic ability that he had in the beginning of his career."

Couldn't disagree more... He had basically the same athletic ability as he did in Milwaukee, the reason Jefferson's attempts were down at the rim from the previous season in Milwaukee is because of the significant decrease of overall touches he received.

He put up 14.9 shots a game in Milwaukee in 2008/2009 season and 4.0 attempts at the rim. (1,222 overall attempts in 2008/2009 season)

Where here in San Antonio he only put up 9.6 shots a game last season and 3.1 shots at the rim. (775 overall attempts in 2009/2010 season)

Huge difference..It wasn't because he all of a sudden became Roger Mason in athletic ability. It was because the opportunities simply were not there because of the talent around him with the Spurs.