how should spurs defend amare [Archive]

stéphane

05-20-2005, 06:43 PM

That's a tough question a lot of coaches have surely tried to answer this year...
Dallas is trying all kind of things in the series...
The guy should be kept as far of the basket as we can, that means a defender capable of moving fast enough to stay in front of him... so maybe Horry can do the job for a time... for the rest of the game double team him if our bigs struggle.

ducks

05-20-2005, 06:45 PM

by the way I have no beef in letting duncan guard him

I want duncan to guard him in 4

by the way if duncan's ankle is not better duncan may not be the answer

Hook Dem

05-20-2005, 06:48 PM

Like Ray Allen, Stoudemire will probably get his but I think we can shut down the rest of the team to a degree. Make Stoudemire shoot from outside and protect the lane(are you listening Nash?).

Timmy21

05-20-2005, 06:58 PM

Robert Horry

Kori Ellis

05-20-2005, 07:01 PM

Just FYI...

During the regular season against the Spurs, Amare averaged 38.7 points on 73.3% from the field -- his highest numbers against any team in the league.

Shelly

05-20-2005, 07:02 PM

Just FYI...

During the regular season against the Spurs, Amare averaged 38.7 points on 73.3% from the field -- his highest numbers against any team in the league.

Great!

:drunk

Kori Ellis

05-20-2005, 07:06 PM

Well if it makes you feel any better here's the shooting percentages for some others against the Spurs.

Nash 37.5%
QRich 33.3%
JJohnson 38.5%

Only Amare and Marion had big series against the Spurs.

Obstructed_View

05-20-2005, 07:30 PM

With the Suns' three point shooting and a first team all defensive player at the four, you don't double team him. If Duncan can't stop him, you let him score 35 on 30 shots and you hold the rest of the team to 60.

atlfan25

05-20-2005, 07:45 PM

it seems to me that horry could be pretty effective against amare, especially if duncan has mobility problems with his ankles, amare would undress him.

E20

05-20-2005, 07:59 PM

The question is how will the Spurs prepare for AJ and his Mavericks.

Brodels

05-20-2005, 08:05 PM

You've got to keep him out of the paint as much as possible. If he catches the ball real low he's sort of like Shaq - he'll dunk the ball faster than you can react to him catching it. Gotta be physical with him. If you can make him catch the ball from ten feet out, he's not going to hurt you as much. He doesn't have a lot of options to go to out there.

I can't imagine that Duncan will start on him. I think that Pop is going to want to make sure that Tim stays out of foul trouble and stays fresh on the other end. I can't imagine guys like Nazr and Rasho chasing Marion around the perimeter. Duncan's probably slightly better for that.

Everyone will get a chance. I can see it being Tim late in games when Horry is in the game. I can see Horry getting some minutes on him too. But I would be surprised if Nazr and Rasho didn't check him most of the time, especially early in games.

They may have to double team him some, but they'll have to be careful. It's going to better to force him to make a shot one-on-one than it will be to leave their perimeter shooters open.

The defense in general needs to tighten up. The Spurs won the last series, but the defense wasn't what it has been in past seasons and even at other times during the past season.

cherylsteele

05-20-2005, 08:12 PM

I honestly don't think Amare is the main concern....it is the man with the ball and that Nash most of the time.

I say trap him off and on to keep off balance and on his heels as much as possible. TP has had a solid playoff history vs. Nash so I think keeping him in check is not as hard as it may sound.

Nash is the MVP....but a terrible defender....take it to him early in the games and he may be in foul trouble early and you will get him out of the game. I thin Phoenix was a great regular season team....but not a Championship teambecause of the lack of "D".....same can be said of Dallas.

nkdlunch

05-20-2005, 09:06 PM

Amare will have to play defense, actually they whole Suns will have to play defense agains the Spurs. They will play a lot different than they've been playing in their 1st 2 series.

Mark in Austin

05-20-2005, 09:30 PM

Man defense...no double teams. Duncan, Horry, and Nazr will guard him at times. But you defend him best by limiting Nash's ablilty to get him the ball where he likes it. Force him away from the basket, but make him put it on the floor.

Let him score 40+ but limit everybody else. If he is forced out of his normal comfort zone offensively even 25% of the time he has the ball, he's having to work a lot harder for the baskets. If the Spurs make him defend a little too, it'll take its toll as the series goes on. Attack the rim with Manu, Parker, Barry, Horry to try to get him in foul trouble. Get the ball to Duncan whenever he is being guarded by Amare for the same reason. When Massenberg and Rasho are in, take the foul over the dunk. Between them that's 12 potential team energizer dunks a game that can be erased.

JsnSA

05-20-2005, 09:36 PM

Well...we definatly have to a better job guarding the pick-N-roll than we did with the Sonics.

We let James get too active sometimes...and were slow to block him out.

Amare is 10 times better than James...and gets many of his baskets of power slams once nash dishes to him of the pick-N-roll.

A lot is going to come down to just recognizing it and getting into place quickly.

Hopefully we can draw some charges early and get him into foul trouble.

Other than that...its mostly shutting down the others and hope he is the only one to really go off.

picnroll

05-20-2005, 10:47 PM

ducks

05-20-2005, 10:50 PM

spurs only played suns with nazr once right?

GSH

05-20-2005, 10:51 PM

Why would the Spurs defend Amare? That's why he has lawyers.

Tux Da Penguin

05-20-2005, 10:52 PM

Game one should be a 1-1 matchup vrs Duncan. Amare wont guard TD on defense though, reported by TNT and ESPN. He wouldnt stand a chance. But TD will be guarding Amare, believe it.

After game 1 id answer this. Right now we should just man him up and see what happens.

What the fuck are you talking about?

Do me a favor:

Go look up Timmy's stats from the Spurs' 2003 series against the Suns.

Tell me how many points Duncan averaged that series.

Recall that Amare was a rookie fresh out of high school.

Then tell me Amare wouldn't stand a chance guarding Duncan.

Ya fuck.

vsnba

05-20-2005, 11:00 PM

give ball to TD them amare will be in foul trouble

wildbill2u

05-20-2005, 11:00 PM

?
front him?
with who?
Foul him?

How about with a Jedi light saber?

picnroll

05-20-2005, 11:03 PM

What the fuck are you talking about?

Do me a favor:

Go look up Timmy's stats from the Spurs' 2003 series against the Suns.

Tell me how many points Duncan averaged that series.

Recall that Amare was a rookie fresh out of high school.

Then tell me Amare wouldn't stand a chance guarding Duncan.

Ya fuck.
Being a Clipper fan you probably don't see too many post season games. In that series Amare didn't guard Duncan, the entire Suns team guarded Duncan. He was quintiple teamed.

Tux Da Penguin

05-20-2005, 11:05 PM

Being a Clipper fan you probably don't see too many post season games. In that series Amare didn't guard Duncan, the entire Suns team guarded Duncan. He was quintiple teamed.

I watched the series, you dumbfuck. And I saw a 19 year old kid hold the MVP to 13 ppg.

picnroll

05-20-2005, 11:06 PM

Dumbass. Amare didn't guard Duncan. He was doubled and tripled everytime he touched the ball. Since when has Amare been anything but a crappy defender. Clipper fan? :lol

Tux Da Penguin

05-20-2005, 11:08 PM

Dumbass. Amare didn't guard Duncan. He was doubled and tripled everytime he touched the ball. Since when has Amare been anything bt a crappy defender.

Nevermind. I don't debate lowlife fuckwad homers.

We'll see what happens.

cqsallie

05-20-2005, 11:14 PM

Amare killed the Spurs this year on pick and roll. They played Nash who fed Amare. Pick your poison. Amare also got a lot of points off putbacks. Got to try to keep him off the offensive boards and Nazr should help there. Best way to slow Amare is to try to get him in foul troble with Duncan in the low post or Parker and Manu penetrating.
All the way through the Mavs-Suns series, I heard sports analysts comment that Stoudamire doesn't like to play defense. So, could one solution be to force him to attempt to play defense and get into foul trouble early on? :rolleyes

MadDog73

05-20-2005, 11:34 PM

Nevermind. I don't debate lowlife fuckwad homers.

We'll see what happens.

You must not talk to yourself much either.

Oh, wait, did you mean master-bate?

benjirh

05-21-2005, 10:18 AM

If you plan on putting Duncan on Amare, then that means that either Nazr will never play with Duncan or Nazr will be guarding Marion. Not a chance. Duncan will guard Marion and Nazr will play Amare. Or Horry will get more time than Nazr this series.

Aggie Hoopsfan

05-21-2005, 10:31 AM

We don't have to defend Amare, we have to defend him and Nash on the pick and roll (which if Seattle is any indication, we're in trouble).

m2m, I expect Nazr on Amare, Duncan on Matrix.

TMSKILZ

05-21-2005, 10:33 AM

Well if I'm correct, Amare is getting majority of his pts from easy dunks & FT's. I believe he's avg about 13 FT attempts during the playoff's & has made them @ about 87%.

Key is to keep him far from the rim, defend better on pick-n-roll & keep him off the FT line. His jumper has improved, but I rather have him attempt 18-20 footers than getting easy dunks.
My concern is our DEF against the pick-n-roll, since we had trouble aginst it Vs the Sonics. JJames had success & got the majority of his limited Pts with the pick-n-roll, imagine now with Amare, far better player.

Put Horry on him since Horry more agile/quicker with his feet than Nazr & Rasho in the open court.

T Park

05-21-2005, 10:40 AM

which if Seattle is any indication, we're in trouble).

I think the Spurs made a good effort in game 5 on the PNR, and if they can copy what they did in that game, then they can carry it over to Phoenix.

Besides, I think they wanted the Sonics PGs to shoot outside shots instead of dumping it down low.

just a hunch.

fonzy16

05-21-2005, 12:38 PM

shut down Nash... you shut down amare and suns!

Tek_XX

05-21-2005, 03:53 PM

we might see the return of the massenburg this series

Gummi

05-21-2005, 04:07 PM

I would start Nazr on him. Nazr has impressed me with his one-on-one defense. His rotations and team defense hasn't been great.

I'm sure Pop won't risk getting Duncan into early foul trouble. If you look up Amare's stats, you'll see he shoots alot of free throws so I'm not ready to risk getting Duncan into an early foul trouble. Also Horry will be a nice fit on him. He has the mobility to guard him but I'm concerned about Amare's strength. He had his way with Dampier so he should be able to muscle Horry around.

timvp

05-21-2005, 04:10 PM

we might see the return of the massenburg this series

Hopefully not. In that Suns game where the Spurs came back to win in Phoenix, TMass was the reason why the Suns got off to a big lead. He was sucking and the Suns were running circles around them.

Hopefully Devin Brown is healthy. This is the series for him to shine. He's looked hurt the last few games that the Spurs have put him in, but hopefully he can return to full strength sometime soon.

TwoHandJam

05-21-2005, 04:17 PM

I watched the series, you dumbfuck. And I saw a 19 year old kid hold the MVP to 13 ppg.
Then you're blind. Frank Johnson swarmed Tim with three defenders every time he touched the ball and forced the other spurs to beat them. If Amare tried to guard Tim with the form he was in in 2003, he'd have been eaten alive.

Even the gimpy Tim of this year would have his way with him.

Ya fuck.

Tux Da Penguin

05-21-2005, 05:10 PM

Even the gimpy Tim of this year would have his way with him.

:lol

manustarting2gd

05-21-2005, 05:35 PM

TwoHandJam

05-21-2005, 08:48 PM

You defend Amare by crushing Steve Nash's penetrations...
other than that, your going to get dunked on repeatedly. I expect Tim to get smashed on a good number of times this series by Amare. Hell, when Amare was a rookie he dunked straight over Tim in the playoffs. Right then, I knew he was a monster in the making.
I also remember a 37 year old David Robinson reducing him to a little schoolgirl on offense. Whenever David covered him, he got stuffed or gave up the ball. Watch the tapes. It's amazing what a good defender Dave was, even in his last year. Dave in his prime would have embarrassed him.

A very gimpy Tim won't be guarding him much or have much success in guarding him. The key is to take away the guy who spoon-feeds him, Steve Nash. If you take away Nash's gifts, Amare is actually very poor at creating for himself. Look at his numbers when Nash was injured this year.

Tux Da Penguin

05-21-2005, 11:31 PM

I also remember a 37 year old David Robinson reducing him to a little schoolgirl on offense.

Yeah. A little schoolgirl. 14.2 ppg for the series. A 19 year old rookie fresh out of high school. You're a stupid motherfucker, aren't you?

Experiment2100

05-21-2005, 11:35 PM

shut down Nash... you shut down amare and suns!

Damn right he could not even get through the dunk contest without Nash.

Catharsis

05-21-2005, 11:57 PM

spurs only played suns with nazr once right?

And Mohammed didn't even play.

The problem with the suggestion of having Duncan guarding Amare and Mohammed guarding Marion is you put Duncan at risk of getting into foul trouble and more importantly you let Marion have his way offensively against Mohammed. Just ask Dirk Novflopface. He's a PF that moves like a PG and he couldn't keep up with Marion.

Dallas actually had a decent strategy and that was to let Nash dp all the scoring. The flaw was they didn't have a defensive stopper to put on him. Bowen is the perfect player to place on Nash.

Also, Quentin Richardson has COMPLETELY lost his stroke from 3pt range. I think this is because Joe Johnson is out. If you're going to double Amare, leave Richardson open until he can prove that he'll hit the shot. If Johnson isn't in the lineup--and it's looking like he won't be tomorrow--let Q shoot. He may hit a couple, but he'll be 2-12 and that should play perfectly into the Spurs game plan as they should expect to score over 100 points.

BUT DO NOT think that the Suns will give a lot of rebounds like they did in the regular season. That is probably the main thing they've been working on and Amare has been a madman on the glass the last two series. Second chance points will be huge for the Spurs.

Catharsis

05-21-2005, 11:57 PM

Damn right he could not even get through the dunk contest without Nash.

Hehe, cute.

mattyc

05-22-2005, 01:00 AM

Attack him. Get him in foul trouble.

Catharsis

05-22-2005, 01:17 AM

Attack him. Get him in foul trouble.

But that's why the Suns are a poor defensive team--they try everything they can not to foul. Two of the fouls against Amare in game 6 against Dallas were touch fouls. One was in retaliation to Henderson grabbing at his arms.

Pandaemonaeon

05-22-2005, 01:26 AM

The only solution I could think of is getting him into foul trouble by attacking the basket and hope he fouls or let them run an iso for him. Other than that, you guys are going to get creamed by that pick-and-roll one way or the other, but I suppose Pop had prior adjustments for this seeing how that's also been a problem against Seattle.

http://img280.echo.cx/img280/9500/pandafish2jp.gif

TwoHandJam

05-22-2005, 08:54 AM

Yeah. A little schoolgirl. 14.2 ppg for the series. A 19 year old rookie fresh out of high school. You're a stupid motherfucker, aren't you?
At least I can read. Ask your mommy to setup the VCR for you and count how many points Amare gets when Robinson is guarding him. You should still have plenty of time to masturbate to your lifesize poster of Amare and get your hairnets washed in time for work.

Amare is a great player with Nash spoonfeeding him but without someone setting him up, he's just an above average post player. What were his averages with Nash out?

Run along now.

Catharsis

05-22-2005, 11:44 AM

Amare is a great player with Nash spoonfeeding him but without someone setting him up, he's just an above average post player. What were his averages with Nash out?

Without Nash in 2004-2005: 22.4ppg, 7.4rpg--Oops.

Without Nash in 2003-2004: 20ppg, 9rpg, Not bad for a 20 year old who played only one year of organized high school basketball.

And he molested a team headed up by Lebron and Carmelo in the Rookie/Sophomore game that year too--without Nash. Hmm...

Tom_Foolery

05-22-2005, 12:03 PM

Personally, I would love Duncan to guard him because Duncan has always been able to answer the call on any assignment. Remember when people said he couldn't guard Dirk? Remember when the Spurs & Mavs last played eachother and Duncan had to guard Dirk in the game? It resulted in a Duncan block & steal.

Plus, I'm pretty bored with people saying "Duncan can't guard Amare". I would absolutely love to see Duncan quiet those fans.

But, I think Nazr should get the assignment. I have a strong feeling that not only will Nazr do a much better job against the pick & roll but also do a much better job guarding him one-on-one than Rasho.

If things get ugly late in the game, they should just have Duncan guard him.

Catharsis

05-22-2005, 12:07 PM

Personally, I would love Duncan to guard him because Duncan has always been able to answer the call on any assignment. Remember when people said he couldn't guard Dirk? Remember when the Spurs & Mavs last played eachother and Duncan had to guard Dirk in the game? It resulted in a Duncan block & steal.

But the difference between Dirk and Amare is Dirk is more of a perimeter shooter. Amare is a true post up forward. Duncan will committ fouls if guarding him.

If things get ugly late in the game, they should just have Duncan guard him.

And that's what will probably happen.

mcshine

05-22-2005, 12:07 PM

Catharsis

05-22-2005, 12:15 PM

Amere's gonna get most of his looks off the pick and roll and off the the left wing extended; he's gonna try and face his defender and take him off the dribble. If Tim guards him he's gonna need help (not a double team) when he tries to put it on the floor, to stay out of foul trouble. Tim needs to space him and not crowd him and block him out when the ball goes up.

On the pick and roll, a third defender is going to need to help on Nash so Tim can stay with Amare.

I bet if Amare is being guarded by Duncan, he'll try to draw him out by shooting some jumpshots. If he's hitting that, then Pops will need to go with Nazr since Duncan cannot keep up with Amare if he sucks him out of the key and drives--his ankles won't let him.

TwoHandJam

05-22-2005, 12:17 PM

Without Nash in 2004-2005: 22.4ppg, 7.4rpg--Oops.

Without Nash in 2003-2004: 20ppg, 9rpg, Not bad for a 20 year old who played only one year of organized high school basketball.

And he molested a team headed up by Lebron and Carmelo in the Rookie/Sophomore game that year too--without Nash. Hmm...
The 4 games stretch where Nash was out i get 16.5 ppg, not 22.4. I didn't check if Nash was out more than that so you may be right but the fact is when Nash is out, he plays well below his average of 26 ppg as I'm sure any Suns fan can tell you. He just doesn't have polished post moves outside of trying to blow by his defender and dunk. He will be a great player no doubt but so far he's taking the path David Robinson did in milking his athleticism without improving his post skills.

Please tell me you're not holding up the rookie/sohpmore game as any kind of evidence of play during a real game. That contest disintegrated into a no-defense streetball game/dunk contest and was taken so lightly by the players that there were several analysts calling it a disgrace.

mcshine

05-22-2005, 12:27 PM

I bet if Amare is being guarded by Duncan, he'll try to draw him out by shooting some jumpshots. If he's hitting that, then Pops will need to go with Nazr since Duncan cannot keep up with Amare if he sucks him out of the key and drives--his ankles won't let him.

I agree with your logic. I figure if Nazr is guarding him, Spurs will have to treat him like Shaq and double, just to get the ball out of his hands and try to match up again. I think it would be a good strategy to create havoc in the half-court and try to get the Suns to rush their shots, as opposed to letting them play under control.

Catharsis

05-22-2005, 12:30 PM

The 5 games stretch where Nash was out i get 21 ppg, not 22.4. I didn't check if Nash was out more than that. When Nash is out, he plays well below his average of 26 ppg I'm sure any Suns fan can tell you. He just doesn't have polished post moves outside of trying to blow by his defender and dunk. He will be a great player no doubt but so far he's taking the path David Robinson did in milking his athleticism without improving his post skills.

Please tell me you're not holding up the rookie/sohpmore game as any kind of evidence of play during a real game. That contest disintegrated into a no-defense streetball game/dunk contest and was taken so lightly by the players that there were several analysts calling it a disgrace.

Nash missed 7 games this season. Did you see the game where Nash missed? The first two were at the end of a eastern conf. road trip. The bad game Amare had was against Detroit where he was guarded by Ben Wallace. Not having Nash really hurt his game there since he was facing one of the best post up defenders in the league. The next game was against Memphis where Amare got into early foul trouble. The rest of the games Amare dominated the paint.

I'm sorry, but for anyone to say Amare Stoudemire is a below average post player without Nash hasn't watch him play. He averages more shot attempts with Nash in the game--mainly because the Suns run and gun with Nash. Without him they tend to slow down--less shot attempts. At 22.4 ppg (without Nash) he ranks 14th in the league in scoring behind Shaq (22.9). I guess Shaq isn't that good of a post up player either.

Tux Da Penguin

05-22-2005, 12:46 PM

At least I can read. Ask your mommy to setup the VCR for you and count how many points Amare gets when Robinson is guarding him. You should still have plenty of time to masturbate to your lifesize poster of Amare and get your hairnets washed in time for work.

Amare is a great player with Nash spoonfeeding him but without someone setting him up, he's just an above average post player. What were his averages with Nash out?
Run along now.

You're the one swooning over DRob and you're talking to ME about beating off to lifesize posters?

Take your lifesize David Robinson penis replica dildo out of your silver dollar-sized asshole, ya fucking fairy, and quit getting your panties wet about a washed up grampa who retired 3 fuckin' years ago.

samikeyp

05-22-2005, 12:53 PM

Just ask Dirk Novflopface.

:lol ok...that was funny!

You make good points, Catharsis, welcome to the board and look forward to more good stuff.

Catharsis

05-22-2005, 01:06 PM

:lol ok...that was funny!

You make good points, Catharsis, welcome to the board and look forward to more good stuff.

Thanks, and I can already tell Spurs fans have their heads screwed on better than their Dallas counterparts.

ducks

05-22-2005, 03:47 PM

not working!

TwoHandJam

05-22-2005, 07:28 PM

I'm sorry, but for anyone to say Amare Stoudemire is a below average post player without Nash hasn't watch him play. He averages more shot attempts with Nash in the game--mainly because the Suns run and gun with Nash. Without him they tend to slow down--less shot attempts. At 22.4 ppg (without Nash) he ranks 14th in the league in scoring behind Shaq (22.9). I guess Shaq isn't that good of a post up player either.

First of all, I said he was an above average post player without Nash, not below average. I still stand by my point that he's not an accomplished "post player" because he doesn't really have any post moves. He doesn't play with his back to the basket at all. He gets his points on pick and rolls from Nash or tries to beat his man to the basket while facing him and dunk. As I said, he still largely uses his athleticism to score points, not footwork or basketball fundamentals. His play on offense actually reminds me more of Robinson in his prime than any other player in the league right now.

TwoHandJam

05-22-2005, 07:30 PM

You're the one swooning over DRob and you're talking to ME about beating off to lifesize posters?

Take your lifesize David Robinson penis replica dildo out of your silver dollar-sized asshole, ya fucking fairy, and quit getting your panties wet about a washed up grampa who retired 3 fuckin' years ago.
:lol Retired with two rings and a spot in the top 50 players of all time.

Stick a fork in yourself buddy, you're done.