Roster and rotation questions ?

[analyzed]

Roster

The way I see it, if the Spurs have to trim their line-up down to 15. The last spot will come down to either Penny or Gee. I'm assuming Gist will make it, while Jerells and the other Big ( Gou..s) get's cut.

Rotation

For the guard rotaton (behind : Parker, Manu and Hill) who will get Pop's nod for the 4th guard ? ( 10 min a game) . I think it's a either Neal or Temple

For the back-up forward behind RJ ( 10-15 min) again its a question of Simmons or Anderson. I think Simmons will get the role early into the season while Anderson eventually replaces him as main back-up.

Bigs: I would be totally surprise if Blair and Splitter don't get the bulk of the minutes behind TD. With Dice and Bonner getting whatever's left. I have no problem if Bonner get's some of Dice minutes early in the season. But would if he gets minutes at the expense of Bair and Splitter especially if both are healthy.

[ChuckD]

roster thread!!!

[honestfool84]

Penny or Gee? i thought Duncan and Manu were battling it out for the 15th spot on the roster??

[Chieflion]

I would be more concerned about the lineup that is finishing the game, which is a huge question mark at this point.

[MaNu4Tres]

I would be more concerned about the lineup that is finishing the game, which is a huge question mark at this point.


Tim, Manu, Tony...

The other big spot filled by Blair or Splitter ( Whoever is playing well that game and whoever doesn't cause a mismatch in favor of the opposition.)

And the other wing spot filled by Hill or Jefferson ( Whoever is playing well that game and whoever doesn't cause a mismatch in favor of the opposition.)

I see the active roster and rotation as this:

Nights with full 12 man active roster-- Meaning Duncan or McDyess aren't resting

Starters to start the 10/11' Season
PG- Parker 31-34 minutes
SG- Hill 30-35 minutes
SF- Jefferson 30-33 minutes
PF- Blair 20-25 minutes
C- Duncan 29-32 minutes

Bench Rotation Spots
PG- Hill (Subs out for Manu at 6 minute mark-- Comes back in for TP at 2 minute mark)
SG- Ginobili - 28-31 minutes
SF- Winner of Simmons/Anderson 10-15 minutes
PF- Antonio McDyess or Bonner - 15-20 minutes
C- Tiago Splitter - 18-25 minutes


Spots 10-12 in the rotation
Mop up minutes/ or only getting minutes if there's significant foul trouble at their position or getting ample amount of run due to the very inferior opposition or 2nd of back to back's on weeks where Spurs play 4-5 games in 7 nights.

PG/SG- Garrett Temple
SF- Loser of Anderson/Simmons
PF- McDyess or Bonner -- Whoever isn't part of the 4- big rotation.

About the Big Rotation
*I don't believe Pop will run a 5-big rotation every game. That will only make it longer for Tiago and the other bigs to start gaining the proper chemistry the team needs in order to reach their full potential (5 man "musical chairs" rotation will only make it longer for the team to start gelling; and how can the bigs (excluding TD) find a confident rhythm if they would only play 10-18 minutes each--if the proposed 5 big rotation per game plays out).

The value of adding an improved DeJuan Blair and a legit 7 footer in Tiago Splitter allows Pop to rest Duncan and McDyess more games without having to worry about a significant drop in production.

* The games McDyess rests or enjoys a Horry-like vacation (1st half of the season) Spurs can have Duncan/Blair-- Tiago/Bonner rotation.

*The games Duncan rests Spurs can have Splitter/Blair-- McDyess/ Bonner rotation.

*The games Spurs have their guns loaded, Spurs can have the Duncan/Blair-- Tiago/ (McDyess or Bonner rotation; Whoever is playing well that part of the season)..

Nomads between Austin and San Antonio at least for the first 3 months of the season.
Inactive Roster- (SG/PG- Neal, SF/SG- Gee, PF-SF Gist)

[chasky]

great analysis Manutres, i agree in a big part. but i think that penney would make the team and gist would be waived.

And in the first two or three mounth the guards rotacion will allow a 5-10 minuts for a fourth player. (Anderson, Temple, Neal or Penney)

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I really doubt the Spurs would give Bonner the contract they did, if they expected him to play 5-10 mins a game and be DNP'd on some nights. A standard 5th big's salary would ideally be around vet min/ LLE, Bonner's role will be bigger than that, otherwise they would have let him walk.

[mountainballer]

I really doubt the Spurs would give Bonner the contract they did, if they expected him to play 5-10 mins a game and be DNP'd on some nights. A standard 5th big's salary would ideally be around vet min/ LLE, Bonner's role will be bigger than that, otherwise they would have let him walk.

agree. I'm still not sure if this signing wasn't (still is?) part of a plan/option to trade Dice (for a big SF/small ball PF). people hate this idea, but this is the only scenario that makes sense IMO. Bonner as the 4th big behind a rotation of Tim-Tiago-Blair makes some sense. at least when considering the theoretically abilities. Bonner on that contract as the 5th big is pure luxury.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

agree. I'm still not sure if this signing wasn't (still is?) part of a plan/option to trade Dice (for a big SF/small ball PF). people hate this idea, but this is the only scenario that makes sense IMO. Bonner as the 4th big behind a rotation of Tim-Tiago-Blair makes some sense. at least when considering the theoretically abilities. Bonner on that contract as the 5th big is pure luxury.

Indeed. I think Dice will play in the first half of the season helping Tiago in his transition and then look to trade him around the Feb deadline for a wing defender.

[MaNu4Tres]

I really doubt the Spurs would give Bonner the contract they did, if they expected him to play 5-10 mins a game and be DNP'd on some nights. A standard 5th big's salary would ideally be around vet min/ LLE, Bonner's role will be bigger than that, otherwise they would have let him walk.

Spurs signed Bonner so they could have a quality 5th big option this year. Duncan and Dyess will have their overall minutes limited by sitting out some games if all goes as planned.

The main reason Spurs gave Bonner the contract they did is because after this season, Dyess will be gone and the Spurs would then have only 3 quality bigs on the entire roster with a late 1st-2nd round pick (uncertainties) and a limited exception(depending on if Spurs want to go into the *new* luxury tax or not) to add a quality 4th and 5th big on the roster. And as long as Duncan is still playing from here on out, the Spurs will need 4-5 quality bigs to give Duncan the rest he needs in order for the Spurs to be able to compete with the elite of the league.

Basically in a nut shell, resigning Bonner guaranteed the Spurs depth (4-deep at least) at the front-court position til Tim's wheels essentially fall off and at the same time-- it gives the Spurs the proper roster flexibility to limit Duncan and Dyess' minutes by letting them sit out some games this season.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

I see your point, MaNu4Tres, and it's certainly a viable one. Hope you're right because I don't want to see Dice traded.

[dbestpro]

I would be more concerned about the lineup that is finishing the game, which is a huge question mark at this point.

Finishers: Duncan, Parker, Manu, and RJ

The last spot depends on matchups and will include, Dice, Splitter, Blair, Bonner, and Hill.

That 5th spot will always be a variable depending on the matchup of the other team. Most likely Blair and Bonner will not be on the court due to foul shooting and Bonner due to defense. Splitter looks like the best of the rest to fill the 5th slot most of the time.

[ElNono]

PF- Antonio McDyess or Bonner - 15-20 minutes
C- Tiago Splitter - 18-25 minutes


I actually expect Bonner to play more minutes than Tiago overall throughout the season. I have a feeling Tiago will be eased up into the team much like how Oberto was in his first season (averaged about 9 minutes per game).

[MaNu4Tres]

I actually expect Bonner to play more minutes than Tiago overall throughout the season. I have a feeling Tiago will be eased up into the team much like how Oberto was in his first season (averaged about 9 minutes per game).

The only thing Oberto and Splitter have in common is that they are smart "heady" players.

Splitter is much more skilled in every aspect of the game and is much more of an interior defensive threat than Oberto and Bonner combined. (The major leak in the Spurs' overall arsenal the past 3 years has been their interior defense-- which has been the culprit to the Spurs progressing defensive demise from the elite of the NBA.)


Saying Splitter won't get quality burn his first year because Oberto didn't is pretty dumb. imo

[benefactor]

Manu can't play 28-31 minutes during the regular season at this point in his career. If he does he'd better have a lot of back to backs off.

[MaNu4Tres]

Manu can't play 28-31 minutes during the regular season at this point in his career. If he does he'd better have a lot of back to backs off.

Just my opinion, I don't believe Manu turned 45 over the summer. He played roughly 29 minutes a game last season after having major surgery on his foot and is coming off a summer of relaxation and a summer where he worked on his leg strength to make him more explosive ( not that he will be; just stating what he said in his exit interview).


I don't believe the minutes will change just because Manu is 6-12 months older.

In 2 years or 3 years then I'd agree with you.

But for now, I don't.

I can actually see him play over 33 minutes in big meaningful games this year during the regular season. (The least I see him playing (on average) is roughly 26 minutes a night). IMO

[ElNono]

The only thing Oberto and Splitter have in common is that they are smart "heady" players.

Don't be disingenuous. I'm not comparing the players. Merely their situation as rookies in this team.


Splitter is much more skilled in every aspect of the game and is much more of an interior defensive threat than Oberto and Bonner combined. (The major leak in the Spurs' overall arsenal the past 3 years has been their interior defense-- which has been the culprit to the Spurs progressing defensive demise from the elite of the NBA.)

There's no doubt that we've slipped considerably on the interior defense department. That said, expecting a rookie Tiago to be the solution to that problem is to be setting yourself up for disappointment, IMO.
Not only he doesn't know the team's defensive system, he also needs to adjust to a much more athletic league, refs need to get to know him, has to get used to the grueling 82 games season after playing all summer.

For a team that lives and dies with their system, familiarity with it plays a huge role. That's why Bonner got the contract he got, and why his number will be called often.


Saying Splitter won't get quality burn his first year because Oberto didn't is pretty dumb. imo

I brought up Oberto as an example because Tiago is somewhat in a similar situation: came from Europe as a seasoned player but really has zero experience in the NBA game. You could argue Manu was also in the same situation, but I would say Manu is, without a doubt, way more intelligent basketball player.

And BTW, I didn't say he wouldn't get quality burn. I merely disagreed with your thought that he's going to get more burn than Bonner. I simply have a feeling he's behind Matt, as far as what this coaching staff values, when it comes to minutes distribution.

[benefactor]

Just my opinion, I don't believe Manu turned 45 over the summer. He played roughly 29 minutes a game last season after having major surgery on his foot and is coming off a summer of relaxation and a summer where he worked on his leg strength to make him more explosive ( not that he will be; just stating what he said in his exit interview).


I don't believe the minutes will change just because Manu is 6-12 months older.

In 2 years or 3 years then I'd agree with you.

But for now, I don't.

I can actually see him play over 33 minutes in big meaningful games this year during the regular season. (The least I see him playing (on average) is roughly 26 minutes a night). IMO
Relaxing and working on leg strength doesn't make him any younger or take away the very hard miles that are already on his body. You act like another year older for Manu is no big deal...how long have you been watching this team? 2 to 3 years? In 2 to 3 years he will be little more than a very savvy spot up shooter that can occasionally make a play passing or going to the rim.

One good relaxing summer is not going to turn the clock back on Manu. He is in decline already...and anyone who can't see that is in denial. Sure, he can play dominant in stretches, but playing him 30mpg and expecting him to have anything left for the playoffs is foolishness. His body simply cannot handle it anymore.

IMO, he should play 22-25 in most games for the bulk of the season if he is going to play the back to backs too. I agree that division games and games against contenders he should probably play a little more. He will need to play over 30 in the playoffs, so his minutes should start gradually increasing to where you suggested when the Spurs are 65ish games in.

[MaNu4Tres]

For El Nono...

Quotes from Pop, Tim and Tony about Splitters transition into the NBA.

“It's not his first rodeo,” Duncan said. “We're going to let him bring what he can bring to the table and let him learn along the way.”

“He’s won championships overseas and played against wonderful players,” Popovich said Thursday. “He’ll come in running, so to speak, and not have a problem.”

"I've been knowing for Tiago for along time, playing against him overseas and I know what you can do. So now it's just a matter to see what he can do in the NBA. He definitely can play and is a smart player. It's the same situation as when Manu came. He's played in a lot of big games and won championships, so hopefully he can adapt quickly and help us out," Parker said.

"He'll have a great NBA career, but he won't be our leading scorer. He'll grab rebounds, defend, running the court, make good decisions and do well with the community,"said Popovich.

"Tiago is a very solid player. He is a professional and ready. Like Manu Ginobili was when he came to the NBA. He has been through a lot, played against great players in adverse situations. Of course he will have to adjust to some different rules. The game in Europe is much more physical than here , " Popovich explained.

[Leonard Curse]

I really doubt the Spurs would give Bonner the contract they did, if they expected him to play 5-10 mins a game and be DNP'd on some nights. A standard 5th big's salary would ideally be around vet min/ LLE, Bonner's role will be bigger than that, otherwise they would have let him walk.

see i thought that too, but judging from what i saw @ open practice dejuan is going to tear teams a new butt hole, theres no denying his talent. Even pop said he has to get good minutes because of his dedication and improvment. (in a round about way)

i definitely see bonner getting trash minutes during the post season, although i think they play him more so than dice to preserve mr . antonio. Bonners pay cut is just the way the spurs work and reward for things we dont understand as fans. the pay check gives no insight into minutes with players like bonner i mean look at manu, im pretty sure hell be coming off the bench.call me crazy but i see dejuan blair making this team way better than people think i mean this kid almost ripped off richard jeffersons arms at open practice (i think it was rj)

[Obstructed_View]

I would be more concerned about the lineup that is finishing the game, which is a huge question mark at this point.

While that whole attitude of who finishes is a nice sound bite for the media, you want your best players to start the game so you aren't trying to catch up the whole game. The Spurs need to do a better job of setting the tone, and the way you do that for a game is with your starters.

Setting the lineup to finish the game is easy, because you can put in the guys having a good night and the ones playing well together, as well as taking advantage of matchups. It's all adjustments. The Spurs should have lots of options this season. The question is: will they take advantage of them.

[MaNu4Tres]

Relaxing and working on leg strength doesn't make him any younger or take away the very hard miles that are already on his body.

You act like another year older for Manu is no big deal...how long have you been watching this team? 2 to 3 years?

Until the day I see significant regression in Manu's game, then I will agree with you. But just 6-7 months ago I saw Manu play the best ball of his career and scoring in every which way. So I have to disagree with take.


In 2 to 3 years he will be little more than a very savvy spot up shooter that can occasionally make a play passing or going to the rim.

Little more than a savvy spot up shooter? That's a wild assumption for the fact that Manu has yet to show significant regression in his game . There's been no inclination that Manu's game has regressed or slowed down considerably to where it's easy to assume he will be a little more than a 02' Steve Smith in 2 years. In fact, last year he played more minutes than he did the previous season. And that's because he came back from a major surgery on his foot. Smdh


One good relaxing summer is not going to turn the clock back on Manu. He is in decline already...and anyone who can't see that is in denial. Sure, he can play dominant in stretches, but playing him 30mpg and expecting him to have anything left for the playoffs is foolishness. His body simply cannot handle it anymore.

Again, where were you last season after the all-star break when Manu was just getting his confidence back after significant surgery on his foot? Did you see Manu play at all last year?

He was the best player in the NBA for a solid month 1/2. Probably the 3rd best shooting guard behind Wade and Bryant the entire year. What in gods name gives you the opinion Manu is in his decline from all that? You really boggle my mind at times bro. And this is one of those times. I understand that he is 33 years old, but I've seen no decline in his game as of yet (imo).



IMO, he should play 22-25 in most games for the bulk of the season if he is going to play the back to backs too. .

Wow 22-25 minutes a night? You are acting like 28-30 minutes is most of the game, when in fact it's barely over half.

I can't see your reasoning. I just can't... Not with the Manu most of us witnessed last season and for the fact that his play has yet to decline.

The 3rd best shooting guard in the game. Yeah oook..You're right, he needs to be limited to 22 minutes a night because his game is already declining and we need to save him for 2 years down the road when this team is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things ( Title talk). SMDH

[ElNono]

For El Nono...

Quotes from Pop, Tim and Tony about Splitters transition into the NBA.

“It's not his first rodeo,” Duncan said. “We're going to let him bring what he can bring to the table and let him learn along the way.”

“He’s won championships overseas and played against wonderful players,” Popovich said Thursday. “He’ll come in running, so to speak, and not have a problem.”

"I've been knowing for Tiago for along time, playing against him overseas and I know what you can do. So now it's just a matter to see what he can do in the NBA. He definitely can play and is a smart player. It's the same situation as when Manu came. He's played in a lot of big games and won championships, so hopefully he can adapt quickly and help us out," Parker said.

"He'll have a great NBA career, but he won't be our leading scorer. He'll grab rebounds, defend, running the court, make good decisions and do well with the community,"said Popovich.

"Tiago is a very solid player. He is a professional and ready. Like Manu Ginobili was when he came to the NBA. He has been through a lot, played against great players in adverse situations. Of course he will have to adjust to some different rules. The game in Europe is much more physical than here , " Popovich explained.

That's all good, but what do you expect them to say? "No, he's gonna suck"?

There's no doubt he's a professional, and that he might be ready to be in the NBA, but that doesn't mean that the transition will be immediate or anywhere near as good as Manu's (which BTW, took him a couple of seasons to eventually shine and be the star he is).

I wish him to do awesome. And I think over time he might be. But I can't pretend that the guy is a plug and play piece for this team in his rookie season. And due to the urgencies this team has, the jury is still out how much patience is going to be there for him to learn the ropes.

So, we'll see what happens. As you tell me your gut feeling, I'm telling you mine. We obviously don't agree. As a Spur fan, I certainly hope you're right, but right now I don't see it.

[ElNono]

I see 22-25 minutes a night for Manu too... I think it will depend on how the team is doing and how the rest of the west is doing too. One of the stated goals is to try to rank up there and get some form of HCA for the playoffs.

I mean, Manu himself talked about his physical decline over the summer and how he's not 25 years old anymore.

[MaNu4Tres]

I see 22-25 minutes a night for Manu too... I think it will depend on how the team is doing and how the rest of the west is doing too. One of the stated goals is to try to rank up there and get some form of HCA for the playoffs.

I mean, Manu himself talked about his physical decline over the summer and how he's not 25 years old anymore.

What I meant by 28-31 minutes a night is the overall average-- Although I believe it will be closer to 28. But in reality who cares? 26-28 minutes a night is off by 2 minutes. Huge difference?

I can see Manu playing 22 minutes a night on several occasions when Spurs are up by a wide margin early in the 2nd half. But the overall average, when you correlate the big games against the elite of the NBA and the games against the JV of the league, I think he will average around 28 minutes a night when it's all said and done. ( Which has been the norm excluding his rookie season; 28 is not a lot by any means).

And of course his body is 33 years old, but so far in his career the age of his body has not effected or declined his overall play as we saw first hand last season. That is where I disagree on his "obvious decline".

[ElNono]

What I meant by 28-31 minutes a night is the overall average-- Although I believe it will be closer to 28. But in reality who cares? 26-28 minutes a night is off by 2 minutes. Huge difference?

I can see Manu playing 22 minutes a night on several occasions when Spurs are up by a wide margin early in the 2nd half. But the overall average, when you correlate the big games against the elite of the NBA and the games against the JV of the league, I think he will average around 28 minutes a night when it's all said and done. ( Which has been the norm excluding his rookie season; 28 is not a lot by any means).

And of course his body is 33 years old, but so far in his career the age of his body has not effected or declined his overall play as we saw first hand last season. That is where I disagree on his "obvious decline".

I agree. I suspect that a lot of both the lineups and minutes decisions will hinge on wins/losses. Can't do what we did last season of laying an egg early and sneaking into the playoffs.

[benefactor]

Until the day I see significant regression in Manu's game, then I will agree with you. But just 6-7 months ago I saw Manu play the best ball of his career and scoring in every which way. So I have to disagree with take.


Little more than a savvy spot up shooter? That's a wild assumption for the fact that Manu has yet to show significant regression in his game . There's been no inclination that Manu's game has regressed or slowed down considerably to where it's easy to assume he will be a little more than a 02' Steve Smith in 2 years. In fact, last year he played more minutes than he did the previous season. And that's because he came back from a major surgery on his foot. Smdh



Again, where were you last season after the all-star break when Manu was just getting his confidence back after significant surgery on his foot? Did you see Manu play at all last year?

He was the best player in the NBA for a solid month 1/2. Probably the 3rd best shooting guard behind Wade and Bryant the entire year. What in gods name gives you the opinion Manu is in his decline from all that? You really boggle my mind at times bro. And this is one of those times. I understand that he is 33 years old, but I've seen no decline in his game as of yet (imo).



Wow 22-25 minutes a night? You are acting like 28-30 minutes is most of the game, when in fact it's barely over half.

I can't see your reasoning. I just can't... Not with the Manu most of us witnessed last season and for the fact that his play has yet to decline.

The 3rd best shooting guard in the game. Yeah oook..You're right, he needs to be limited to 22 minutes a night because his game is already declining and we need to save him for 2 years down the road when this team is irrelevant in the grand scheme of things ( Title talk). SMDH
When did I say I wanted to save him for 2 years down the road? I just want him healthy for the playoffs. 28-30 minutes is just over half the game? I guess you will need to give me link to where they have decided to make games somewhere between 56 and 60 minutes long. If you can't then you will probably need to stick with the 25 minutes I suggested, which is...well...just over half the game. Remember, the 25 minutes I suggested is for the bulk of the season. I have no problem increasing his minutes during the games and stretches of the season I previously mentioned.

He played outstanding last late year...especially after Parker went down. I was actually very concerned with the load he was having to carry and his minutes during that time. I just knew an injury was coming...but thankfully, it didn't. I'd love to see that Manu late in the year again. Getting him there is where my minutes concern lies.

That good stretch does suddenly make him Supermanu for a full season again. I'm not sure where you get this idea that players are going to be better or stay the same as they get older(you do the same thing with RJ). If everyone stays, healthy the Spurs do not need Manu to play 30mpg during the season to win 50-55 games. The Spurs have enough help to where they can beat most teams on most nights with him playing 25. Supermanu needs to show up for the playoffs..and getting him there will be predicated on monitoring his minutes closer than ever.

[mingus]

Manu clearly looked tired in some of the Suns games/losses. he was flat on a lot of his threes. blame his nose, but that doesn't make you have no lift on your 3's. that's why everyone has to stay healthy this year. one guy goes down, and Manu and Tim can't pick up the slack and not being affected by it later on in the season.

[MaNu4Tres]

When did I say I wanted to save him for 2 years down the road? I just want him healthy for the playoffs. 28-30 minutes is just over half the game? I guess you will need to give me link to where they have decided to make games somewhere between 56 and 60 minutes long. If you can't then you will probably need to stick with the 25 minutes I suggested, which is...well...just over half the game. Remember, the 25 minutes I suggested is for the bulk of the season. I have no problem increasing his minutes during the games and stretches of the season I previously mentioned.

He played outstanding last late year...especially after Parker went down. I was actually very concerned with the load he was having to carry and his minutes during that time. I just knew an injury was coming...but thankfully, it didn't. I'd love to see that Manu late in the year again. Getting him there is where my minutes concern lies.

That good stretch does suddenly make him Supermanu for a full season again. I'm not sure where you get this idea that players are going to be better or stay the same as they get older(you do the same thing with RJ). If everyone stays, healthy the Spurs do not need Manu to play 30mpg during the season to win 50-55 games. The Spurs have enough help to where they can beat most teams on most nights with him playing 25. Supermanu needs to show up for the playoffs..and getting him there will be predicated on monitoring his minutes closer than ever.

So basically our argument is over 3-5 minutes give or take?

[benefactor]

So basically our argument is over 3-5 minutes give or take?
That 5 minutes per game can be the difference between sustaining and injury and staying healthy...especially with a player like Manu who is balls out the whole time he is in the game. No one in the league pushes themselves like Manu does...and that type of pushing leads to quicker muscle fatigue which leads to injury.

[MaNu4Tres]

Manu clearly looked tired in some of the Suns games/losses. he was flat on a lot of his threes. blame his nose, but that doesn't make you have no lift on your 3's. that's why everyone has to stay healthy this year. one guy goes down, and Manu and Tim can't pick up the slack and not being affected by it later on in the season.

Manu wasn't bending over on his knees because of the minutes he played in the regular season. Manu was bending over on his knees because Pop elected to invest in the wrong players( Mason/Bogans)who didn't perform for the last 4 months of the year. Which consequently lead to Pop overplaying Manu 38 minutes a night against Phoenix because he was left with no bench after Mason and Bogans were still the same terrible performers.

Manu and Tim can't play those type minutes in the playoffs anymore (36-42 minutes a night) and be efficiently effective in the 4th quarter ( where the Spurs need them most for executing purposes).

[MaNu4Tres]

That 5 minutes per game can be the difference between sustaining and injury and staying healthy...especially with a player like Manu who is balls out the whole time he is in the game. No one in the league pushes themselves like Manu does...and that type of pushing leads to quicker muscle fatigue which leads to injury.

Yet Manu's minutes have been relatively the same his entire career and he has yet to show a sign of "obvious decline" as his age has reached 33 years old.

28 minutes a night is not too much for Manu, even being balls to wall. It's 4 more minutes than half the game. Which is "barely" than half the game by the way.

[elemento]

I igree with Manu4tres in eveything, except for Neal not making the starting 12.

They gave Neal a guaranteed contract in the 1st year for a reason. He will be among the 12.

Inactive roster will be Temple/Gee/Gist IMO.

[ducks]

Manu wasn't bending over on his knees because of the minutes he played in the regular season. Manu was bending over on his knees because Pop elected to invest in the wrong players( Mason/Bogans)who didn't perform for the last 4 months of the year. Which consequently lead to Pop overplaying Manu 38 minutes a night against Phoenix because he was left with no bench after Mason and Bogans were still the same terrible performers.

Manu and Tim can't play those type minutes in the playoffs anymore (36-42 minutes a night) and be efficiently effective in the 4th quarter ( where the Spurs need them most for executing purposes).

HE IS FUCKING OLD and can only play 25 minutes a game during the regular season
that is why spurs got fucked with the big contract he signed

[DesignatedT]

Roster

The way I see it, if the Spurs have to trim their line-up down to 15. The last spot will come down to either Penny or Gee. I'm assuming Gist will make it, while Jerells and the other Big ( Gou..s) get's cut.

That could be a problem

[elemento]

I have a question for the salary experts

From what I've read (especially from Bruno's topic), we could have 13 guys in our roster without having to pay the luxury tax. Fourteen would only be possible if Gist is the 14th guy, right?

Are we willing to pay Bobby Simmons more than the NBA minimum? If we do, would we still have to waive Gee or Temple ?

[spectator]

why do we have to worry so much about the 3rd string guys? they never make the difference in the PO. simmons, gee, temple, gist - will not see ANY minutes in the PO if 1st and 2nd strings are healthy.

my opinion is that pop will play tony-hill-manu-rj at the 1-2-3 in the PO - just like he did last year; again, just like he did when it mattered. personally, i would find a more interesting debate in arguing who should play next to duncan. i like what i have seen from blair in practice and i am looking forward to seeing how splitter fits in. since we have to beat la anyway, i think pop needs to work duncan and tiago together so they get used to playing with each other.

[TD 21]

What I meant by 28-31 minutes a night is the overall average-- Although I believe it will be closer to 28. But in reality who cares? 26-28 minutes a night is off by 2 minutes. Huge difference?

I can see Manu playing 22 minutes a night on several occasions when Spurs are up by a wide margin early in the 2nd half. But the overall average, when you correlate the big games against the elite of the NBA and the games against the JV of the league, I think he will average around 28 minutes a night when it's all said and done. ( Which has been the norm excluding his rookie season; 28 is not a lot by any means).

And of course his body is 33 years old, but so far in his career the age of his body has not effected or declined his overall play as we saw first hand last season. That is where I disagree on his "obvious decline".

Excellent overall analysis and breakdown of the roster/rotation. I agree with virtually everything you said, right down to Ginobili's minutes.

In terms of Duncan's and Ginobili's minutes, the problem wasn't the minutes per se, it was how arduous many of them were. I'd say the lowest average we'll see is Duncan 30 mpg and Ginobili 27 mpg and I'm confident that they can handle that just fine, so long as many of those minutes aren't as arduous as they were last season. Fortunately, in the case of both, they don't figure to be.

elemento, I presume the reason the Spurs gave Neal a guaranteed contract is not necessarily because they wanted to guarantee him or see him as an automatic for the active roster, but because that was what it took to get him out of Europe, where he was a featured player and to fend off opposing NBA teams that were interested in signing him.

It's low risk/high reward. If he doesn't pan out, he's inexpensive and they can easily dispose of him at any time if they so choose. If he does pan out, then they've got an inexpensive, young, knockdown shooter for up to three seasons.

If they were a 100% sold on him, I don't think they'd have even bothered bringing Penney and Gardner to camp. Rare is the team that doesn't bring in camp fodder, but they could have went in another direction.

[lurker23]

I also agree with pretty much everything MaNu4Tres says in this thread. Great analysis. :tu :toast