Why is it that Laker fans are the only fanbase who hate advanced stats?

[midnightpulp]

Oh, I get it now.

Regular season PER.

1. Michael Jordan* 27.91
2. LeBron James 26.86
3. Shaquille O'Neal 26.59
4. David Robinson* 26.18
5. Wilt Chamberlain* 26.13
6. Dwyane Wade 25.67
7. Bob Pettit* 25.37
8. Tim Duncan 25.02
9. Neil Johnston* 24.72
10. Charles Barkley* 24.63
11. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 24.58
12. Magic Johnson* 24.11
13. Karl Malone* 23.90
14. Dirk Nowitzki 23.76
15. Kevin Garnett 23.59
16. Hakeem Olajuwon* 23.59
17. Kobe Bryant 23.50

Career playoff PER:

1. Michael Jordan* 28.59
2. George Mikan* 28.51
3. LeBron James 27.08
4. Shaquille O'Neal 26.16
5. Tim Duncan 25.74
6. Hakeem Olajuwon* 25.69
7. Tracy McGrady 24.66
8. Dirk Nowitzki 24.66
9. Charles Barkley* 24.18
10. Dwyane Wade 24.04
11. Amare Stoudemire 23.86
12. Dwight Howard 23.33
13. Dolph Schayes* 23.29
14. Jerry West* 23.06
15. David Robinson* 23.02
16. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 23.01
17. Magic Johnson* 22.95
18. Wilt Chamberlain* 22.77
19. Bob Pettit* 22.59
20. Kobe Bryant 22.36

Regular season win shares:

1. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 273.41
2. Wilt Chamberlain* 247.26
3. Karl Malone* 234.62
4. Michael Jordan* 214.02
5. John Stockton* 207.70
6. Oscar Robertson* 189.21
7. Shaquille O'Neal 178.99
8. David Robinson* 178.67
9. Charles Barkley* 177.21
10. Reggie Miller 174.40
11. Moses Malone* 167.07
12. Kevin Garnett 165.71
13. Bill Russell* 163.51
14. Hakeem Olajuwon* 162.77
15. Jerry West* 162.58
16. Tim Duncan 162.31
17. Magic Johnson* 155.79
18. Dirk Nowitzki 150.18
19. Robert Parish* 147.00
20. Kobe Bryant 145.93

Playoff win shares:

1. Michael Jordan* 39.76
2. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar* 35.56
3. Magic Johnson* 32.63
4. Wilt Chamberlain* 31.46
5. Shaquille O'Neal 31.08
6. Tim Duncan 28.61
7. Bill Russell* 27.76
8. Jerry West* 26.75
9. Kobe Bryant 26.12


Now before you mouthbreathing Kobe cocksuckers fly off the handle and say, 'W-Well, PER is a joke. Just look how Amare is ranked above my precious, beautiful, wonderful Kobe Bryant. Right there, that abomination against God should invalidate its legitimacy." First of all, Amare doesn't really deserve his place on the list because he has nowhere near the games played as Bryant, so obviously his stat is going to be skewed (same with Dwight Howard, among others).

And secondly, if you Lakers fans didn't have IQs in the range of LA's yearly temperature average, you'd understand that PER simply takes what elements of the game can be measured, adjusts for minutes and pace, and arrives at a number. It simplifies the whole cumbersome exercise of comparing individual stat categories between two players. This way we don't have to say, "But player A averages more assists," "Yeah, but player B averages three times as many rebounds," "But player A had a higher FG%," "Yeah, but..." You get the point.

We simply use PER in conjunction with observation to arrive at an overall opinion of a player's worth (PER underrates Magic and Bird because it's a tad biased against assists, and of course it can't measure a player's total defensive impact). It's not a be all end all. But it's pretty obvious why you Kobe fantards don't like it (Luva, Shaolin/tbone, Koolaids, etc) and dismiss it every time someone uses it to illuminate a point. Because Kobe Bryant's PER (along with some other advanced stats) doesn't compare relatively well with the other all time greats.

[Ashy Larry]

Some Laker fans will freak out over the PER and certain stats but all I care about are the LOB's in the office of Doc Buss and those banners flying high.

[MavDynasty]

regulated, imho

[Jelloisjigglin]

I'm sure when people look back on Kobe's career, they'll turn to this.

[bbarry]

I'm sure when people look back on Kobe's career, they'll turn to this.
first they'll realize kobe couldn't win jack without being the robin to a big man.

[midnightpulp]

Please love my Kobe :cry.

Big man dependent, imo.

[Jelloisjigglin]

Big man dependent, imo.


I know i know, you're upset. I would be to if i was a Spurs fan.

[midnightpulp]

I know i know, you're upset. I would be to if i was a Spurs fan.

Why? My team won 4 titles, all of which I got to witness. When I became a fan, I never imagined they'd win that many. So I'm pretty content. Yeah, the run has ended, but all good things must.

I'm also content with the fact that I can comfortably sit down because I don't have Kobe Bryant's cock planted in my rectum, unlike yourself.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Why? My team won 4 titles, all of which I got to witness. When I became a fan, I never imagined they'd win that many. So I'm pretty content. Yeah, the run has ended, but all good things must.

I'm also content with the fact that I can comfortably sit down because I don't have Kobe Bryant's cock planted in my rectum, unlike yourself.

Unfortunately you will forever hate the the Lakers b/c they overshadowed San Antonio's only relevant decade

[midnightpulp]

Unfortunately you will forever hate the the Lakers b/c they overshadowed San Antonio's only relevant decade

No. I hate the Lakers because of their dumbass fans. See my signature. Stupid beaners and frontrunners (lol @ the majority of you signing up here after the Gasol trade) make up the majority of the fanbase.

[Jelloisjigglin]

Why? My team won 4 titles, all of which I got to witness. When I became a fan, I never imagined they'd win that many. So I'm pretty content. Yeah, the run has ended, but all good things must.

I'm also content with the fact that I can comfortably sit down because I don't have Kobe Bryant's cock planted in my rectum, unlike yourself.

Are you sure you don't? All your threads/posts i've seen here from you revolve around Kobe and the Lakers. That's a pretty unhealthy obsession you have there..

[Giuseppe]

I just thank Christ Artest made Pierce sorry.

[Latarian Milton]

the PER system is Hollinger's patented invention imho, which is only used to adjust his paranoid fondness for some players like Kobe, Lebron...

[Giuseppe]

I just thank Christ Vuj center cut those two free throws.

[midnightpulp]

Are you sure you don't? All your threads/posts i've seen here from you revolve around Kobe and the Lakers. That's a pretty unhealthy obsession you have there..

No. I don't.

[Giuseppe]

I just thank Christ that we're topsy & Mid is turvy.

[midnightpulp]

I just thank Christ that we're topsy & Mid is turvy.

Did you thank Christ when that little boy was unable to finger you in the lineup?

[Giuseppe]

I just thank Christ for The Skunker.

[midnightpulp]

I just thank Christ for The Skunker.

I just thank Christ that "I can achieve tumescence" without pharmaceutical aid.

How's that working out for you?

[BoricuaCJA]

Just wondering, who are the Laker fans that joined Spurstalk before Gasol got handed to them??

[picc84]

midnight, paddin' his search results for DeadlyDynasty

Not enough pages, son?

[midnightpulp]

midnight, paddin' his search results for DeadlyDynasty

Not enough pages, son?

No.

[ohmwrecker]

lol Neil Johnston

King of the peach basket!

[Giuseppe]

I just thank Christ that "I can achieve tumescence" without pharmaceutical aid.

How's that working out for you?

lmcontrollinao!!!

[midnightpulp]

lmcontrollinao!!!

How much in control can you really be if you can't control whether or not you get an erection?

[Giuseppe]

I thank Christ Artest wasn't sittin' next to JRich when Kobe airballed it.

[midnightpulp]

I thank Christ Artest wasn't sittin' next to JRich when Kobe airballed it.

But who's there to bail you out when you try to put it in Katie-girl's basket and "airball?"

[Giuseppe]

I just thank Christ Pierce stopped Artest from driving to the basket.

[Greg Oden]

I sometimes use my nutsack as a bowling ball and katie girl's fleshy boobs as the pins.

[Giuseppe]

1 & 77!

[Greg Oden]

nope. I usually roll straight strikes. Kinda hard to miss those big knockers.

[Giuseppe]

lmcontrollinao!

[Greg Oden]

yer only controllin the tv remote whilst bunked out on the couch.

[Giuseppe]

With my 16 NBA World Championships.

[Greg Oden]

nope, uh huh. me and katie girl's got em stashed and that's where they're stayin put.

[Giuseppe]

lmcontrollinao!

[Venti Quattro]

Stats that I care about are those of my fantasy teams/players and a Lakers championship. I do look at stats but in the end I care about the team winning.

[Killakobe81]

I dont hate advanced stats EXCEPT PER ...
I think win shares, true shooting percentage and line up combination =/- ALl have SOME value ... but using stats alone is just like someone using 5 rings faggot ...both mean crap without context. Also the irony of pointing out that amare is ahead of kobe and he is an abomination when you used PER to slam Kobe. IF you question it because amare has a prominet place in it doesnt the original crux of your argument fail? I understand you are trolling but this is pretty weak by your standards, pulp ...step your game up.

[midnightpulp]

I dont hate advanced stats EXCEPT PER ...
I think win shares, true shooting percentage and line up combination =/- ALl have SOME value ... but using stats alone is just like someone using 5 rings faggot ...both mean crap without context. Also the irony of pointing out that amare is ahead of kobe and he is an abomination when you used PER to slam Kobe. IF you question it because amare has a prominet place in it doesnt the original crux of your argument fail? I understand you are trolling but this is pretty weak by your standards, pulp ...step your game up.

No. Because Amare's sample size is way too small to arrive at any meaningful conclusion. As you can see, Amare doesn't appear on the regular season list where the sample size is obviously much larger.

[4>0rings]

Did you thank Christ when that little boy was unable to finger you in the lineup?
:lmao

[Giuseppe]

I smell skunk.

[Jt.ONE]

career PERs

18. Larry Bird* 23.50
19. Oscar Robertson* 23.17
21. Jerry West* 22.90
23. Elgin Baylor* 22.70
25. Moses Malone* 22.31
29. John Stockton* 21.83
31. George Gervin* 21.74

* = Hall of Fame



your point is?

*the whole PERs system is wacked.

many laker fans dismiss PER because its not kobe-friendly.it makes sense to dismiss it as it is clearly flawed.

at the end of the day, who the fuck cares as long as you're out there winning?

[Purch]

Advanced stats are pointless.

I can watch Wade,Lebron and Kobe and tell that they're the best players in the Nba. I don't need advanced stats to tell me things I can clearly see by watching players.

[Giuseppe]

^Purch has a healthy modicum of common sense.

Bully, bully for you, Purch.

[midnightpulp]

career PERs

18. Larry Bird* 23.50
19. Oscar Robertson* 23.17
21. Jerry West* 22.90
23. Elgin Baylor* 22.70
25. Moses Malone* 22.31
29. John Stockton* 21.83
31. George Gervin* 21.74

* = Hall of Fame



your point is?

*the whole PERs system is wacked.

many laker fans dismiss PER because its not kobe-friendly.it makes sense to dismiss it as it is clearly flawed.

at the end of the day, who the fuck cares as long as you're out there winning?

I understand that you Laker fans dismiss PER because it's not Kobe friendly, so thanks for admitting that.

But explain to me how it is clearly flawed? I fully admit it is flawed (it can't measure a player's defensive impact and it is slightly biased against assists), but not to the extent where it isn't useful for statistically evaluating players. Jordan is regarded as the greatest player of all-time and he also has the highest all time PER, for both the regular season and the playoffs.

You might be inclined to cite Larry Bird as an example. He's regarded as a top 10 player, but ranks 18th in PER. Well, when Larry was winning MVPs, he led the league in the PER. His later years bringing down his overall average.

Despite what you believe, PER is pretty solid.

So again, come up with an argument instead of defaulting to insubstantial one-liners like "the whole PER system is wacked."

[midnightpulp]

Advanced stats are pointless.

I can watch Wade,Lebron and Kobe and tell that they're the best players in the Nba. I don't need advanced stats to tell me things I can clearly see by watching players.

No matter how much you want to believe it, your opinion is only subjective and not without its biases.

[Venti Quattro]

Advanced stats are pointless.

Advanced-stats hater. Lakers fan? :lmao

[midnightpulp]

Advanced-stats hater. Lakers fan? :lmao

You morons still make up the overwhelming majority, so...

[Purch]

No matter how much you want to believe it, your opinion is only subjective and not without its biases.

So why should I depend on advanced stats to form my opinions for me?

Before 2-3 years ago i didn't even know they existed. And I didn't need them to confirm that Nash shouldn't have back to back mvps or that Lebron was talented as hell.

Now people use advanced stats as the basis to all their arguments and use advanced stats to form all their opinions.

What's the point in even watching basketball then?

[024]

advanced stats exposes bryant's inefficiency.

[phyzik]

despite Bryants inefficency, I still think he is one of the best players to grace the NBA with his presence, rape and being a 2nd man throughout his career notwithstanding.

He is a great player and will be remembered as probably the greatest side-kick of all time, eclipsing some of the greatest 2nd go-to guys of all time such as Robert Horry, John Stockton, Scottie Pippen, Amare Stoudamire, Manu Ginobilli, Shaq in his Post-Laker career, Penny Hardaway and several others.... He towers above them all as the greatest 2nd option in a really long time.

He trully is the imbodiment of the "Robin" role when it comes to basketball.

Props to Kobe.

[BUMP]

http://tekniklr.com/wpblog/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/iranzilla2.jpg

[Killakobe81]

Advanced stats are pointless.

I can watch Wade,Lebron and Kobe and tell that they're the best players in the Nba. I don't need advanced stats to tell me things I can clearly see by watching players.

Amen. Been saying this for years ...Lebron is the most dominant player in the game right now ...I dont need PER to see that. I have eyes.
I also dont need it to notice he is ringless either ...

[midnightpulp]

Amen. Been saying this for years ...Lebron is the most dominant player in the game right now ...I dont need PER to see that. I have eyes.
I also dont need it to notice he is ringless either ...

Rings are a team accomplishment, Killa. You, of all people who put supposedly put the front of the jersey before the back, should understand that.

[history2b]

Advanced stats? lol.

Yeah, lets ignore the reality of how the games play out throughout the playoffs and just partake in a circle around a shrine of John Hollinger.

[midnightpulp]

:cry My precious Kobe isn't as dominant as I think he is, so let's ignore facts and instead default to opinion, because my opinion "objectively" states that my Kobe is the bestest best ever!

[DPG21920]

Laker fans hate advanced stats because they suck at math. Even if they have tutors their ceiling is a "C".

[history2b]

Are teams and players of the past celebrated for winning or for superior advanced statistics?

[DPG21920]

Are tutors supposed to help you get better than a "C"?

[midnightpulp]

Are teams and players of the past celebrated for winning or for superior advanced statistics?

Depends on the player. To this day, there's much hand wringing over whether or not Bill Russell deserves his place among the top 5/10 players. On the other hand, Oscar and Wilt, both statistically dominant, are permanent fixtures on any top 10 list, despite their lack of multiple titles.

Individual players should be judged by performance (both in the regular and post-season) not by titles won. Titles are a team accomplishment. I don't understand why you Kobe fans find this such a hard concept to grasp (actually I do, so never mind). You morons take it as an insult when we say that Kobe has the most talented supporting cast in the league, which is something you should celebrate instead of knee-jerking into Kobe defense mode.

Yes, I think Kobe is vastly overrated. Always thought that. But who gives a shit when your team is collecting O'Briens?

[history2b]

Depends on the player. To this day, there's much hand wringing over whether or not Bill Russell deserves his place among the top 5/10 players. On the other hand, Oscar and Wilt, both statistically dominant, are permanent fixtures on any top 10 list, despite their lack of multiple titles.

Individual players should be judged by performance (both in the regular and post-season) not by titles won. Titles are a team accomplishment. I don't understand why you Kobe fans find this such a hard concept to grasp (actually I do, so never mind). You morons take it as an insult when we say that Kobe has the most talented supporting cast in the league, which is something you should celebrate instead of knee-jerking into Kobe defense mode.

Yes, I think Kobe is vastly overrated. Always thought that. But who gives a shit when your team is collecting O'Briens?


Anyone who questions Bill Russell's place in history is a moron who simply does not know the game of basketball because they have their head shoved too far down a stat sheet to make sense of something that if they actually had the intellect to dissect, they wouldn't need a stat sheet in the first place.

I have never taken insult to saying Kobe has the most talented supporting cast in the NBA. I think he has a really good one, maybe the best, maybe not. But it's good enough to win and that's all that matters because that's all that will be remembered. Morons who argue over things like this on the internet for cyber supremacy of message boards will ultimately be forgotten.

And morons who make up their own reality of other people? They are the most helpless of all as they live in a constant state of delusion, lies and deceit in order to fabricate a cyber identity to anonymous men on a message board.

[history2b]

Anyone think John Wooden or Dean Smith has his television turned off during the NCAA tourney or NBA Finals in favor of getting the latest "advanced stats sheets" sent to their email?

What did people do before advanced stats? No one must have known who was the best back then cause the PERs didn't exist to tell us all. :lmao

[HarlemHeat37]

Laker fans hate all stats, except for 2: Points, PPG..

Laker fans NEVER used "rings" as an argument in 2005, 2006 and 2007..when Spurs fans used Duncan's rings as an argument until 2008, Laker fans dismissed it, due to the differential in the quality of teammates(which is a fair argument)..now it's their favorite stat..

Whether you dislike advanced stats or not, it isn't a coincidence that Kobe is usually the exception..apparently, there's just something about him that separates him from every other mega-star in NBA history..

PER is a decent box score stat, overrated by a lot of people, but it translates fairly well..Duncan has finished in the top 3 5 times..O'Neal has finished in the top 3 9 times, including 5 consecutive #1 finishes..Jordan finished in the top 3 10 times, including 7 consecutive #1 finishes..Olajuwon finished in the top 3 4 times..Kareem finished in the top 3 12 times, including 9 #1 finishes..Bird finished in the top 3 6 times, including 2 #1 finishes..

Magic Johnson only placed twice, but everybody that knows the stat knows that it severely undervalues PGs..

Kobe has only finished in the top 3 twice, never higher than #3..

Win Shares?..Kobe is the only guy on this list that has never placed in the top 3..in fact, every other player on this last, except Olajuwon(placed in the top 3 twice, his real value is in defensive win shares, where he has historic numbers) played in the top 3 at least 5 times..

Those are just 2 examples, you can keep going..

So even if you dislike advanced stats, which many do, why is it that Kobe is essentially the ONLY player of this caliber that has none of these stats working in his favor?..curious..


Laker fan argument in 2010:

#1- rings
#2- opinions from NBA people with no arguments or logic presented
#3- unquantifiable arguments, such as "killer instinct", "will to win"
#4- revisionist history

[midnightpulp]

Anyone who questions Bill Russell's place in history is a moron who simply does not know the game of basketball because they have their head shoved too far down a stat sheet to make sense of something that if they actually had the intellect to dissect, they wouldn't need a stat sheet in the first place.

I personally don't. He was greater than the sum of his parts. To understand his impact, all you have to do is look at his years at San Francisco when he won back-to-back NCAA titles. Something that the college hasn't done before or since. I think he was a better basketball player than Wilt, even though Wilt was far more statistically dominant. Corollary to Russell's success at San Francisco was Wilt's failure to win at a top flight program in Kansas. The fact that Russell won, twice, at a much smaller, less renown school while Wilt couldn't achieve similar at Kansas says a lot.


I have never taken insult to saying Kobe has the most talented supporting cast in the NBA. I think he has a really good one, maybe the best, maybe not. But it's good enough to win and that's all that matters because that's all that will be remembered. Morons who argue over things like this on the internet for cyber supremacy of message boards will ultimately be forgotten.


Good for you.


And morons who make up their own reality of other people? They are the most helpless of all as they live in a constant state of delusion, lies and deceit in order to fabricate a cyber identity to anonymous men on a message board.

I can only make my judgment of who a person is on the Internet by their posting history. Yours tells me that you're quite the Laker homer who has an obsession and a hatred for the Spurs.

If you're not a ring smacking Laker fan with a superiority complex who constantly has to remind us how incredibly great the team they root for is and are here to talk basketball, I have no problem with you, even if that means trolling dumbfuck Spurs fans.

But if you're here to be Lakaluva 2.0, then I will flood your bullshit threads with nonsense.

[history2b]

I personally don't. He was greater than the sum of his parts. To understand his impact, all you have to do is look at his years at San Francisco when he won back-to-back NCAA titles. Something that the college hasn't done before or since. I think he was a better basketball player than Wilt, even though Wilt was far more statistically dominant. Corollary to Russell's success at San Francisco was Wilt's failure to win at a top flight program in Kansas. The fact that Russell won, twice, at a much smaller, less renown school while Wilt couldn't achieve similar at Kansas says a lot.

College basketball is a different game which is why it doesn't matter that Shaq and Duncan never won and a guy like Joakim Noah won 2 (back to back btw) [Lew Alcindor, Bill Walton too]

The reality is that Russell's true impact that can be traced back to his days at San Francisco, is that he defined the sport of basketball to be one of defense, not offense, proving that the key to success was controlling an opponents ability to score, specifically in the paint where the easiest opportunities to score are to had. The game was forever changed and that same principle is as valid today as it was back in 1962.




Good for you.

So much for the idiotic half witted assumptions huh?



I can only make my judgment of who a person is on the Internet by their posting history. Yours tells me that you're quite the Laker homer who has an obsession and a hatred for the Spurs.

If you're not a ring smacking Laker fan with a superiority complex who constantly has to remind us how incredibly great the team they root for is and are here to talk basketball, I have no problem with you, even if that means trolling dumbfuck Spurs fans.

But if you're here to be Lakaluva 2.0, then I will flood your bullshit threads with nonsense.

I have zero hatred for the Spurs. I call the game as it is plain and simple. You can flood my threads and posts all you want. I'm not going to stop a troll from being a troll. In the process you only expose yourself to be a moron with an agenda to be a troll flooding moron with no ability to talk basketball when it does not include mindless worship of the San Antonio Spurs. By all means little man, be you.

[midnightpulp]

College basketball is a different game which is why it doesn't matter that Shaq and Duncan never won and a guy like Joakim Noah won 2 (back to back btw) [Lew Alcindor, Bill Walton too]

The reality is that Russell's true impact that can be traced back to his days at San Francisco, is that he defined the sport of basketball to be one of defense, not offense, proving that the key to success was controlling an opponents ability to score, specifically in the paint where the easiest opportunities to score are to had. The game was forever changed and that same principle is as valid today as it was back in 1962.





So much for the idiotic half witted assumptions huh?




I have zero hatred for the Spurs. I call the game as it is plain and simple. You can flood my threads and posts all you want. I'm not going to stop a troll from being a troll. In the process you only expose yourself to be a moron with an agenda to be a troll flooding moron with no ability to talk basketball. By all means little man, be you.

Do you have reading comprehension issues?

I just flat out stated that if you're here to talk basketball, rationally and objectively, I won't derail your threads. But if you descend into Kobe vs. Lebron, Kobe=greatest evar!!!1, Spur hating, Laker loving shtick, your threads/posts won't get much respect, from me or others.


when it does not include mindless worship of the San Antonio Spurs.

And I don't like homers, which is why I'm not upstairs too often (although they have a large amount of cynics, as well). So I'm with you there.

[midnightpulp]

Laker fans hate all stats, except for 2: Points, PPG..

Laker fans NEVER used "rings" as an argument in 2005, 2006 and 2007..when Spurs fans used Duncan's rings as an argument until 2008, Laker fans dismissed it, due to the differential in the quality of teammates(which is a fair argument)..now it's their favorite stat..

Whether you dislike advanced stats or not, it isn't a coincidence that Kobe is usually the exception..apparently, there's just something about him that separates him from every other mega-star in NBA history..

PER is a decent box score stat, overrated by a lot of people, but it translates fairly well..Duncan has finished in the top 3 5 times..O'Neal has finished in the top 3 9 times, including 5 consecutive #1 finishes..Jordan finished in the top 3 10 times, including 7 consecutive #1 finishes..Olajuwon finished in the top 3 4 times..Kareem finished in the top 3 12 times, including 9 #1 finishes..Bird finished in the top 3 6 times, including 2 #1 finishes..

Magic Johnson only placed twice, but everybody that knows the stat knows that it severely undervalues PGs..

Kobe has only finished in the top 3 twice, never higher than #3..

Win Shares?..Kobe is the only guy on this list that has never placed in the top 3..in fact, every other player on this last, except Olajuwon(placed in the top 3 twice, his real value is in defensive win shares, where he has historic numbers) played in the top 3 at least 5 times..

Those are just 2 examples, you can keep going..

So even if you dislike advanced stats, which many do, why is it that Kobe is essentially the ONLY player of this caliber that has none of these stats working in his favor?..curious..


Laker fan argument in 2010:

#1- rings
#2- opinions from NBA people with no arguments or logic presented
#3- unquantifiable arguments, such as "killer instinct", "will to win"
#4- revisionist history

Harlem, with the goods.

[history2b]

Do you have reading comprehension issues?

I just flat out stated that if you're here to talk basketball, rationally and objectively, I won't derail your threads. But if you descend into Kobe vs. Lebron, Kobe=greatest evar!!!1, Spur hating, Laker loving shtick, your threads/posts won't get much respect, from me or others.



And I don't like homers, which is why I'm not upstairs too often (although they have a large amount of cynics, as well). So I'm with you there.


It appears that you did not comprehend my initial statement. No worries.

[Jelloisjigglin]

Kobe haters getting real desperate now. They're digging up per stats in a last ditch attempt to discredit him and his legacy. Classic. :lol

[namlook]

9t-r2HASo5M

"Stats are for losers. Final scores are for winners."

[TheSullyMonster]

first they'll realize kobe couldn't win jack without being the robin to a big man.

Fuck, man. If you aren't Michael Jordan(or the Bad Boys? Didn't watch them)? You need a good big man.

Of all the criticisms to give Kobe, that really shouldn't be one of them.

[Giuseppe]

They've no other choice. This 16th hit 'em...hit 'em hard.