McDonald's, 29 other firms get health care coverage waivers

[ducks]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/2010-10-07-healthlaw07_ST_N.htm?loc=interstitialskip

[CosmicCowboy]

Bastards. It's a shitty, stupid law, and as usual, the "big guys" buy their way out of compliance. I will probably have to drop my employee family coverage that I now pay for because I simply won't be able to afford to comply with the new mandates.

[boutons_deux]

These companies' cheapo insurance plans, esp MacDo, were only "better than nothing". MacDo was capped at $2000, for $1600/year premiums.

If there were a hard-core public option, these low-end employees, and all poor people, even the unemployed, would have better coverage for less cost.

But the for-profit health care industry will always do what's best for its profits, not for its customers' health care.

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/10/07/business/07insure.html?_r=2&hp=&pagewanted=print

[CosmicCowboy]

Well, all I know is the insurance I pay 100% of for my employees, wives, and children (with a $35 doctor co-pay, drug card, etc. but a $5000 deductible on big stuff) is now not "good enough". I now have to provide a lower deductible, pay for "totally free" preventive care INCLUDING surgical procedures like colonoscopies and pay for their kids insurance till they are 26. Bullshit. Of course, I have a choice. I can finally say "fuck it" and just pay for coverage for employees only.

Fuck Obamacare...stupid,stupid,stupid,stupid,stupid.

[101A]

Obamacare has successfully thrown the baby out with the bathwater.

It is utter bullshit that the big corps and govt. plans are given a pass - undoubtedly to keep the headlines of "Thousands lose coverage BECAUSE of Obamacare!"

[boutons_deux]

sure, it's really insurance company care since they gutted the real cost saving reform, like public option. but continue bleating and whining at Magic Negro.

as always, you wrongies always miss your target, mostly intentionally

[CosmicCowboy]

sure, it's really insurance company care since they gutted the real cost saving reform, like public option. but continue bleating and whining at Magic Negro.

as always, you wrongies always miss your target, mostly intentionally

Whose insurance do YOU pay for shitforbrains?

[101A]

sure, it's really insurance company care since they gutted the real cost saving reform, like public option. but continue bleating and whining at Magic Negro.

as always, you wrongies always miss your target, mostly intentionally


There was never any proposal that would actually lower the cost of care - only manipulations of the funding of those same costs.

[CosmicCowboy]

There was never any proposal that would actually lower the cost of care - only manipulations of the funding of those same costs.

It was NEVER intended to lower the cost of health care. In fact, it was intentionally written to INCREASE the cost to the current payers of health care. The whole point was to make it so expensive and painful that single payer could be rammed through later.

[101A]

It was NEVER intended to lower the cost of health care. In fact, it was intentionally written to INCREASE the cost to the current payers of health care. The whole point was to make it so expensive and painful that single payer could be rammed through later.


http://www.bobsviews.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/obama-mission-accomplished.jpg

[Wild Cobra]

Well, all I know is the insurance I pay 100% of for my employees, wives, and children (with a $35 doctor co-pay, drug card, etc. but a $5000 deductible on big stuff) is now not "good enough". I now have to provide a lower deductible, pay for "totally free" preventive care INCLUDING surgical procedures like colonoscopies and pay for their kids insurance till they are 26. Bullshit. Of course, I have a choice. I can finally say "fuck it" and just pay for coverage for employees only.

Fuck Obamacare...stupid,stupid,stupid,stupid,stupid.
They just want to make all productive citizens like you, a serf to the government. But then, I'll bet you already know that.

[Wild Cobra]

It was NEVER intended to lower the cost of health care. In fact, it was intentionally written to INCREASE the cost to the current payers of health care. The whole point was to make it so expensive and painful that single payer could be rammed through later.
Very true. My employer sees that, and is now only hiring temporary employees where overtime isn't enough. I'll bet they keep this hiring freeze in place until they know what the future costs will be to add employees.

[CosmicCowboy]

Very true. My employer sees that, and is now only hiring temporary employees where overtime isn't enough. I'll bet they keep this hiring freeze in place until they know what the future costs will be to add employees.

Full time employees are getting rarer and rarer because of federal intrusion in employer/employee mandates. Work someone 38 hours a week and you are fine. Work em 40 and the government gets to tell you who, what, where and when.

[clambake]

Full time employees are getting rarer and rarer because of federal intrusion in employer/employee mandates. Work someone 38 hours a week and you are fine. Work em 40 and the government gets to tell you who, what, where and when.

thats been around for 25 years.

[CosmicCowboy]

thats been around for 25 years.

Thats true, but as full time baby boomers retire more and more jobs are going to be replaced by part-timers or the jobs will be completely outsourced. You youngsters should do yourself a favor and learn Mandarin or Hindu so you can catch the next wave of the future. The same increased bandwidth that has Americans in love with facebook and youtube allows virtually every "desk job" in the country to be outsourced.

[Wild Cobra]

Thats true, but as full time baby boomers retire more and more jobs are going to be replaced by part-timers or the jobs will be completely outsourced. You youngsters should do yourself a favor and learn Mandarin or Hindu so you can catch the next wave of the future. The same increased bandwidth that has Americans in love with facebook and youtube allows virtually every "desk job" in the country to be outsourced.
Yes, Chinese of some dialect.

I think there is some future truth to the series Firefly.

[boutons_deux]

"intentionally written to INCREASE the cost to the current payers of health care"

"man up, America. Getting screwed by the for-profit health care system is a patriotic"

[boutons_deux]

Whose insurance do YOU pay for shitforbrains?

I paid for my own insurance when self-employed, with after-tax money.

If you don't like running a company and compensating your employees with expensed health plans, then stop, shitforbrains.

It ain't Magic Negro's fault that you brains are shit or the US health system is perversely, exorbitantly expensive.

[boutons_deux]

Health insurance is so expensive to subsidize the greedy, predatory docs and hospitals, even abusive monopolist MS won't pay it all.

Microsoft workers to pay part of health care in 2013

http://news.cnet.com/8301-13860_3-20019065-56.html?part=rss&subj=news&tag=2547-1_3-0-20

[DMX7]

No public option was a huge victory for the insurance companies. Well done.

[MiamiHeat]

You mean corporations don't give a shit about people and only worry about their profits?

What a surprise. Greed and a harmonious civilization cannot co-exist.

This country will go down the shitter soon enough.

[DMX7]

You mean corporations don't give a shit about people and only worry about their profits?

What a surprise. Greed and a harmonious civilization cannot co-exist.

This country will go down the shitter soon enough.

It's better than a public option. A public option would have been a victory for the terrorist and would have turned America communist.

[CosmicCowboy]

I can certainly understand how you guys would favor a public option where the "the gubment" (better known as other producing members of society) would pay for your health care.

[DMX7]

I can certainly understand how you guys would favor a public option where the "the gubment" (better known as other producing members of society) would pay for your health care.

Oh you mean the people paying into a public option system would be paying for their own healthcare? I see, that sounds horrible. That almost sounds like an insurance company.

[CosmicCowboy]

Oh you mean the people paying into a public option system would be paying for their own healthcare? I see, that sounds horrible. That almost sounds like an insurance company.

:lmao

Yeah right. The fucking bum at the Valero that hits you up for change when you go in to get your 40? I'm sure he will be paying in.

[DMX7]

:lmao

Yeah right. The fucking bum at the Valero that hits you up for change when you go in to get your 40? I'm sure he will be paying in.

Sounds like you don't know what a public OPTION is... :lmao

[CosmicCowboy]

That pissant "fine" for not buying healthcare? PLEEEEEZE.

HEALTH CARE IS TOO DAMN GOOD AND TOO DAMN EXPENSIVE FOR EVERYONE TO GET CRADLE TO GRAVE CADILLAC HEALTH CARE. THERE ARE NEW EXPENSIVE TREATMENTS FOR VIRTUALLY EVERYTHING BEING INVENTED/RESEARCHED DAILY.

It's that fucking simple.

[CosmicCowboy]

Sounds like you weren't listening to Obama when he said old people were going to have to get used to be given an aspirin and sent home. I was.

That's your fucking public OPTION.

[DMX7]

Sounds like you weren't listening to Obama when he said old people were going to have to get used to be given an aspirin and sent home. I was.

That's your fucking public OPTION.

LOL. You don't even know what you're railing against. You're all over the place. :lmao

[CosmicCowboy]

LOL. You don't even know what you're railing against. You're all over the place. :lmao

You don't know what you are advocating.

Who PAYS for your cherished "public option"?

I've got a pretty good idea from your previous ignorant posts that you figure it's in your best interest to support it since you think you won't be paying for it.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

You don't know what you are advocating.

Who PAYS for your cherished "public option"?

I've got a pretty good idea from your previous ignorant posts that you figure it's in your best interest to support it since you think you won't be paying for it.

How are prices set with your cherished "private option?"

[CosmicCowboy]

How are prices set with your cherished "private option?"

Uhhh...the ones that work and pay for health care get health care?

[boutons_deux]

I can certainly understand how you guys would favor a public option where the "the gubment" (better known as other producing members of society) would pay for your health care.

The govt doesn't pay for health care. Typical right wing lying.

The govt taxes all income as insurance premiums to create a huge insurance pool to spread the gouging treatment costs. Sickos don't have to put off treatment (until it's unbearably worse and more expensive to treat) for want of money, don't have to worry about being destroyed/bankrupted by catastrophic illnesses, and docs and patients don't have to guess about and fight with insurance companies. A public option wouldn;t have entire departments and mgmt incentives to disqualify treatments, disqualify and cancel patients.

But keep up your bullshit, there's plenty dumbfucks who believe it.

[boutons_deux]

:lmao

Yeah right. The fucking bum at the Valero that hits you up for change when you go in to get your 40? I'm sure he will be paying in.

You're paying 100s of $Bs for the homeless health care now provided by public health care centers, which are reimbursed by state and federal tax dollars.

And private hospitals that take in under/non-paying patients recover their costs from the same public reimbursements and/or by overcharging insurance/paying patients.

Keep up you lying bullshit, you seem to be infinitely full of it.

[boutons_deux]

That pissant "fine" for not buying healthcare? PLEEEEEZE.

HEALTH CARE IS TOO DAMN GOOD AND TOO DAMN EXPENSIVE FOR EVERYONE TO GET CRADLE TO GRAVE CADILLAC HEALTH CARE. THERE ARE NEW EXPENSIVE TREATMENTS FOR VIRTUALLY EVERYTHING BEING INVENTED/RESEARCHED DAILY.

It's that fucking simple.

Many of the new drugs are worthless, and/or really no better than the generics they're trying to replace. And the side effects are often fatal or crippling or pathogenic. BigPharma is one of the biggest scams going.

It's that fucking simple.

[CosmicCowboy]

Many of the new drugs are worthless, and/or really no better than the generics they're trying to replace. And the side effects are often fatal or crippling or pathogenic. BigPharma is one of the biggest scams going.

It's that fucking simple.

You are probably right. Your meds clearly aren't working.

[MiamiHeat]

You are probably right. Your meds clearly aren't working.

You should look into the scams he is talking about.

1) Big money is made by creating new patent for new drugs. Once you get a new patent, even if it's a variation of an existing drug, or even if it only mildly improves on the last one, you get rich. Patients are sold this expensive treatment. Doctors are bribed to peddle them.

2) Big money is made by keeping people on pills that prolong your life and improve your condition

3) but no money is made by curing you.

4) So, as a consequence, private corporate research dollars go into developing pills that improve, but do not cure.

It's corporate waste.

Spend precious resources like money and scientist manpower on developing better plastic packaging, but ignore humanity's real issues because there is no money to be made there.

The pharmaceutical industry is no different.

[CosmicCowboy]

You guys crack me up.

The whole world is evil and conspiring against you.

So what are YOU doing to save the world besides blowing shit out of your ass on a political forum?

[MiamiHeat]

The whole world is evil and conspiring against you.


They aren't out to get anyone. They are out to get $$$.

You have nothing real to say in response, apparently..

History will look upon America's greedy system no different than any other in greedy, corrupt nation that has existed.

[CosmicCowboy]

They aren't out to get anyone. They are out to get $$$.

You have nothing real to say in response, apparently..

History will look upon America's greedy system no different than any other in greedy, corrupt nation that has existed.

There's a really easy way to beat that "evil drug company conspiracy" Tell your doctor or pharmacist that you want a generic equivalent. DUH!

[MiamiHeat]

CosmicCowboy

I am not sure if you lack the knowledge about all of these topics.....or if you know it, and just don't care.

How can a human be devoid of compassion and caring for others, for the well being of the world?

[CosmicCowboy]

CosmicCowboy

I am not sure if you lack the knowledge about all of these topics.....or if you know it, and just don't care.

How can a human be devoid of compassion and caring for others, for the well being of the world?

:lmao

I'm not devoid of compassion, rather I am a realist. Theres things you can fix and things you can't. Give everyone in the US, housing, food, and healthcare whether they produce anything or not? Destroy any incentive for a work ethic and personal responsibility? Sheeeeut. Why stop there? How about Mexico? Central America? South America? shit, why stop there...Africa? Asia? The world is full of "needy" people. Where do you stop? I simply don't feel that those people are my responsibility.

[Wild Cobra]

Miami...

Prove yourself to be the compassionate one, and do it with your money rather than other people's money. Get together like minded individuals and form a nonprofit charity. Have like minded people contribute. Just stay out of our pockets who choose a different way of being charitable. It takes away from what we want to do.

[SnakeBoy]

Sounds like you don't know what a public OPTION is... :lmao

Sounds like you haven't figured out there's never going to be a public option...

[Wild Cobra]

Sounds like you haven't figured out there's never going to be a public option...
Why do people think the free market be an option? Shouldn't it be the standard?

[boutons_deux]

public option = no-profit govt universal health insurance, like medicare/medicaid/VA/govt employees

private option = for-profit gouging as we have now.

[Wild Cobra]

public option = no-profit govt universal health insurance, like medicare/medicaid/VA/govt employees

private option = for-profit gouging as we have now.
So you support the communistic takeover of all free market activities then, right?

[ElNono]

So you support the communistic takeover of all free market activities then, right?

Extrapolate much?

Maybe the free market works for certain things, and maybe it doesn't for other things. I gather that's not plausible to you, the free market fundamentalist?

[boutons_deux]

So you support the communistic takeover of all free market activities then, right?

Wrong again, WC. your straw man, you knock it down

[Wild Cobra]

Extrapolate much?

Maybe the free market works for certain things, and maybe it doesn't for other things. I gather that's not plausible to you, the free market fundamentalist?
On the contrary. I agree we need government for some activities. Health care works fine in the free market. Problem is, people want to turn it into a right when it's not. Making it a right allows justification to take other people's

[Wild Cobra]

Wrong again, WC. your straw man, you knock it down
It was a question, just being pointed about it. People like you won't stop at nationalizing health care. Where will you stop?

Communistic bastard.

[boutons_deux]

"Health care works fine in the free market"

You Lie.

For-profit health insurance is an inhumane disaster.

Health providers are vastly overpaid, so that USA pays twice for health care vs other industrial countries, and they provide universal converage, and get better health results

[boutons_deux]

It was a question, just being pointed about it. People like you won't stop at nationalizing health care. Where will you stop?

Communistic bastard.

Lying bastard.

private enterprise works fine in many places.

the financial sector and health care sectors are totally fucked up, and they love the profits from being fucked up. Only the govt can solve those situations.

[ElNono]

On the contrary. I agree we need government for some activities.

So you support the communistic takeover of all free market activities then, right?

I mean, really. This was your take.


Health care works fine in the free market.

Maybe in your fantasy world it does.


Problem is, people want to turn it into a right when it's not. Making it a right allows justification to take other people's

How about turning it into a government-provided service?
Would that acquiesce your concerns? I somehow doubt that it will.

[Wild Cobra]

So you support the communistic takeover of all free market activities then, right?

I mean, really. This was your take.

Consider bouton's normal MO, and think again.

[Wild Cobra]

How about turning it into a government-provided service?
Would that acquiesce your concerns? I somehow doubt that it will.
Some is necessary. If you look back, this starts when i argue against the term "public option" stating that the free market should be the standard. Not the government. We already have a "government option."

[ElNono]

Consider bouton's normal MO, and think again.

TBH, I expect better from you than to lower yourself at that level of irrationality. Perhaps my expectations are unfounded.


Some is necessary. If you look back, this starts when i argue against the term "public option" stating that the free market should be the standard. Not the government.

And I disagree. I think the free market as we know it has much different goals than the caring, well-being of the population. A role that the government already has taken in a number of other services provided to the public (IE: police force, education, etc).

[Wild Cobra]

In most things, I will contend government is the problem. Not the solution.

Has the Department of Education done anything worth while that justifies the ever increasing rising costs of education? You can apply it to most any government program. It is ineffective, and becomes a means for political forces to control the masses.

Do you believe in the tenth amendment, or not?

[ElNono]

In most things, I will contend government is the problem. Not the solution.

I like to analyze on a case by case basis.


Has the Department of Education done anything worth while that justifies the ever increasing rising costs of education? You can apply it to most any government program. It is ineffective, and becomes a means for political forces to control the masses.

By and large education spending increases can be traced back to increases in population and the fact that certain things such as technology in the classroom is a requisite in the formation of today's kids.
What's the Department of Education to do about that?

Is there some form of wasteful spending in that system? I don't know first hand, but it wouldn't shock me if you found some.

Ultimately, it might be the price to pay to have genuine interest in the education of our children. Tell me how a corporation that has a fiduciary duty to to maximize earnings to their shareholders will prioritize the children over the shareholders. It's a fallacy. In the same vein, I see the same conflict of interests brewing on the health insurance business, and the latitude of control they're been afforded in medical decisions.


Do you believe in the tenth amendment, or not?

What does the 10th amendment has to do with services provided by the government? If this is an attempt at a strawman, it's really badly played.

[CosmicCowboy]

By and large education spending increases can be traced back to increases in population and the fact that certain things such as technology in the classroom is a requisite in the formation of today's kids.
What's the Department of Education to do about that?

Is there some form of wasteful spending in that system? I don't know first hand, but it wouldn't shock me if you found some.

A Federal Department of Education by its very existence is wasteful spending. They don't educate a single student. Education is historically a local issue and should stay a local issue.

[Wild Cobra]

A Federal Department of Education by its very existence is wasteful spending. They don't educate a single student. Education is historically a local issue and should stay a local issue.
Yep. ElNono won't admit it, but doesn't believe in States Rights.

[ElNono]

A Federal Department of Education by its very existence is wasteful spending. They don't educate a single student. Education is historically a local issue and should stay a local issue.

I wouldn't have a problem with a State-run Dept. of Education. Still a government entity.

[ElNono]

Yep. ElNono won't admit it, but doesn't believe in States Rights.

Don't run away from my post. We're discussing services provided by the government (which can be at any level as far as I'm concerned), versus your free market solutions. It's interesting how you decided to respond by proxy without addressing the points I brought up in my post.

But I have to gather from your post that you would be OK with a state-run healthcare service for it's residents? Somehow I don't think that's what you mean.

[Wild Cobra]

I wouldn't have a problem with a State-run Dept. of Education. Still a government entity.
Neither would I, or should I say not as much as the federal bureaucracy.

The federal government does too much that should be reserved for the state, or the people.

[ElNono]

Neither would I, or should I say not as much as the federal bureaucracy.

The federal government does too much that should be reserved for the state, or the people.

Ultimately, that's your opinion. Certainly respectable, I should add.
That said, Congress is not violating any laws or rights by instituting federal entities, and the burden of proof is on you to prove otherwise.

[Wild Cobra]

Don't run away from my post. We're discussing services provided by the government (which can be at any level as far as I'm concerned), versus your free market solutions.
To clarify, my biggest complaing is federal government programs. Not state. Now as I disagree with many state run programs, at least it isn't one all encompassing blanket.

But I have to gather from your post that you would be OK with a state-run healthcare service for it's residents? Somehow I don't think that's what you mean.
Yes, and no. I will acknowledge the states rights to do it. I will maintain it is unconstitutional for the federal government to do it.

Thing with being a republic is we aren't suppose to have everything dictated by one governmental bureaucracy. We can have in essence 50 different experiments going on at once. If something actually works, then by choice, each state can adopt the policy. Let the free marketplace of ideas work, with the best ones winning, and the bad ones being scrapped. With one "fit everyone" scenario, what do we have to compare it against?

Now I will still disagree with single payer health care, or mandatory insurances. Again however, at least I will acknowledge states rights.

[Wild Cobra]

Ultimately, that's your opinion. Certainly respectable, I should add.
That said, Congress is not violating any laws or rights by instituting federal entities, and the burden of proof is on you to prove otherwise.
We disagree on that. They do too much under the guise of interstate commerce that I will contend, was never meant to be within their power.

Please read the tenth amendment carefully.

[ElNono]

We disagree on that. They do too much under the guise of interstate commerce that I will contend, was never meant to be within their power.

Please read the tenth amendment carefully.

I read the Supreme Court interpretation of it, which eventually it's what gives it it's weight:

The amendment states but a truism that all is retained which has not been surrendered. There is nothing in the history of its adoption to suggest that it was more than declaratory of the relationship between the national and state governments as it had been established by the Constitution before the amendment or that its purpose was other than to allay fears that the new national government might seek to exercise powers not granted, and that the states might not be able to exercise fully their reserved powers.....

Pretty clear cut I'd say.

[ElNono]

To clarify, my biggest complaing is federal government programs. Not state. Now as I disagree with many state run programs, at least it isn't one all encompassing blanket.

...


Yes, and no. I will acknowledge the states rights to do it. I will maintain it is unconstitutional for the federal government to do it.

Well, you'll have to excuse me if I don't take your legal interpretations with any degree of seriousness.


Thing with being a republic is we aren't suppose to have everything dictated by one governmental bureaucracy. We can have in essence 50 different experiments going on at once. If something actually works, then by choice, each state can adopt the policy. Let the free marketplace of ideas work, with the best ones winning, and the bad ones being scrapped. With one "fit everyone" scenario, what do we have to compare it against?

It's interesting that you point this out, because a public service doesn't preempt private services. The fact that you want to prohibit a different 'idea' from competing with the other ideas out there is very anti-free market actually... If you have little doubt that private services are so superior and will win out on the merits, then what are you scared of?


Now I will still disagree with single payer health care, or mandatory insurances. Again however, at least I will acknowledge states rights.

It's really irrelevant which layer of government runs it as far as I'm concerned. What's important to me is that their priority is with the general population, not a small group of shareholders.

[MiamiHeat]

Free market is great for some things.

Preying upon the sick for profits should not be one of them. The health care industry should be a non-profit industry. Period. Only keep what they need to run operations and expand facilities for more medical care.

The rest of any earnings made should go back into funding research and development. The Health care industry would fund the nation's/world's medical breakthroughs instead of all that money going into already wealthy shitheads who want to buy another 10 million dollar yacht.

The right to access medical care so that you can go to work, live your life, and be happy should not be a debate.

Nobody should be allowed to raise the prices of medical care in order to turn profits.