The Fed is Selling Us Out

[Parker2112]

Ron Paul:
"In times such as these, Liquidation is necessary, but the Fed insists on transferring the debt from the rich to the general public."

"This results in devaluation of the dollar, and inflation, which is killing the lower and middle classes, who lose jobs and savings."

"Devaluation is not good policy, it is criminal theft...and all the countries in the world are doing this"

"We cannot afford to be the policemen of the world and be a welfare state and solve our problems with financial reform."

"Role of govt needs to be revamped, and limited"

Alex Jones:
"Govt is the conduit through which Mega-corps rob and pillage the people."

N4bXb9QldDU

"Exemptions to 29 corps from Obamacare violates equal protection under the law"

"Fear is the tool of the Thugs in Govt"

"Its just Crying wolf...who believes the stuff anymore?"

GqhdICVInuo

There is treason afoot. Right before our eyes...

[Parker2112]

Worldwide Hyperinflation Race (http://fskrealityguide.blogspot.com/2010/10/worldwide-hyperinflation-race.html)


In the USA and Europe, there is massive inflation to bail out the banksters. Aiming for stable exchange rates, other countries are also inflating their money.

Politicians in other countries value their exports to the USA. As dollar inflation occurs, prices of non-US goods rise relative to US-produced goods. To keep exports at the same level, the other country must also inflate.

Consider a factory owner in China. The factory exports to the USA, receiving dollars. The factory owner trades his dollars with China's government for newly-printed yuan. China's government merely holds the dollars, rather than buying tangible goods. The net effect is that the USA exports inflation to China. In effect, China's politicians are subsidizing the banksters in the USA.

Why are foreign bureaucrats so eager to export to the USA, in exchange for a piece of paper? That can't continue forever.

Foreign politicians are eager to manipulate exchange rates. When politicians do this, currency speculators say "Woohoo! Free money!" It's like the government is writing currency speculators a check, when politicians try to manipulate currency exchange rates.

How does inflation subsidize the banksters? Suppose the bank owns a $1M mortgage on a house currently worth $400k. That's a $600k loss. If there's 100% inflation, then it's a $1M mortgage on a house currently worth $800k, for a loss of only $200k. If there's 200% inflation, then the bank can sell the foreclosed house with money left over. In this manner, inflation helps bail out insolvent banks. The loans can be repaid with devalued money; the assets backing the loan is worth more.

The foreclosure process takes a year or two. Over time, inflation helps bail out the banksters. The bank is borrowing at the Fed Funds Rate of 0.25%, while inflation helps underwater loans become more solvent.

Banks don't care about the actual inflation rate. They borrow at the Fed Funds Rate and make loans, profiting from leverage and the interest rate spread and the yield curve. Right now, the banksters are borrowing at the Fed Funds Rate and buying Treasury debt. That's the reason the banks are make huge profits while the rest of the country is stuck in a recession/depression.

The current situation is pretty ridiculous. The USA is inflating to bail out the banksters. Other countries are inflating to keep stable exchange rates with the US dollar. It's a worldwide hyperinflation race.

http://fskrealityguide.blogspot.com/2010/10/worldwide-hyperinflation-race.html

[Parker2112]

no nonsense explanation of inflation solution and the currency war.

[PublicOption]

no sir, WASHINGTON is selling us out.

NAFTA, CAFTA

fuck American Worker.afta.

[MiamiHeat]

I'm pretty sure Obama administration did NOT want to hand out any exemptions....

but I am also pretty sure that the corporations know they have Obama by the balls. If they threaten to cut employee benefits, or even lay off workers.... with the economy the way it is.....the country is going to be even angrier than it is...

So...

in a way, we are doing this to ourselves. Forcing Obama to play politics to save his own ass, helping the coporations....

[Winehole23]

^^^wrong thread?

[Winehole23]

Obama doesn't give orders to the Fed.

[MiamiHeat]

^^^wrong thread?

"Exemptions to 29 corps from Obamacare violates equal protection under the law"

is in the OP

[boutons_deux]

WASHINGTON is selling us out.



does anybody think Washington originates anything?

Washington is a proxy for corporations, and does whatever the corporations want.

Here's the corporatons selling Texas oil for export to China. Where are the tea bagger "morans" and their silly costumes on this?

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/China_stakes_claim_to_S_Texas_oil_gas_104753969.ht ml?showFullArticle=y

[Parker2112]

Washington is a proxy for corporations, and does whatever the corporations want.


How then is Govt the answer? Isnt this always going to be the case with big govt?

[boutons_deux]

How then is Govt the answer? Isnt this always going to be the case with big govt?

Govt as corporate stoolie isn't the answer.

Govt as visionary guardian of the best interests of the citizens is the answer, but that govt doesn't exist.

There is no answer. America is ...

[Parker2112]

Govt as corporate stoolie isn't the answer.

Govt as visionary guardian of the best interests of the citizens is the answer, but that govt doesn't exist.

There is no answer. America is ...

I agree. But doesnt limited govt power necessarily limit the reach of corps into our rights?

If you create a political office, with real power, wont those individuals/corps with sufficient resources and bad intentions be drawn in to occupy that space for personal gain, to expand the scope of their power and wealth?

This is the thing that cant be stopped. Expanding govt is ready-made failure.

[boutons_deux]

The corps have already "limited" the government.

ie, gutting regulations and defunding/capturing regulatory/enforcement agents.

What the corps want absence of govt, except for govt spending power for transferring tax payer dollars to the corporations.

[boutons_deux]

The Final End of Bretton Woods 2

Consider the enormity of the situation at hand. The Federal Reserve is poised to crank up the printing press for the sake of satisfying their domestic mandate. One mechanism, perhaps the only mechanism, by which we can expect meaningful, sustained reversal from the current set of imbalances is via a significant depreciation of the dollar. The rest of the world appears prepared to fight the Fed because they know no other path.

Bad things happen when you fight the Fed. You find yourself on the wrong side of a whole bunch of trades. In this case, I suspect it means that Bretton Woods 2 finally collapses in a disorderly mess. There may really be no other way for it to end, because its end yields clear winners and losers. And the losers, in this case largely emerging markets, and not prepared to accept their fate.

http://economistsview.typepad.com/timduy/2010/10/the-final-end-of-bretton-woods-2.html

[boutons_deux]

Matt Taibbi on how Wall St is gonna exploit the Fed's QE2


http://readersupportednews.org/off-site-opinion-section/83-83/3561-the-f

[Parker2112]

The corps have already "limited" the government.

ie, gutting regulations and defunding/capturing regulatory/enforcement agents.

What the corps want absence of govt, except for govt spending power for transferring tax payer dollars to the corporations.

So we need maximum regulatory enactment/enforcement powers and limited spending capabilities for max efficiency?

[Parker2112]

which seems to be exactly the opposite of what we have, very likely by the design of a corrupt hand.

[MiamiHeat]

A lot of this can be fixed through campaign finance reform

[coyotes_geek]

A lot of this can be fixed through campaign finance reform

How so?

[Parker2112]

How so?

This is how your politicians are bought/manufactured. This is how the status quo is maintained.

[Wild Cobra]

How so?
The criminals will still violate the laws, and those who follow the laws will lose.

Win win for the liberals.

[coyotes_geek]

This is how your politicians are bought/manufactured. This is how the status quo is maintained.

What does that have to do with the Fed? Fed chairs aren't elected politicians.

[MiamiHeat]

What does that have to do with the Fed? Fed chairs aren't elected politicians.

Because then we can get some real politicians again, who will go in and begin to clean house.

Another Andrew Jackson would be great.

Bankers and people with lots of $$ are the real power behind this country. The best way to get rid of them is to take their biggest weapon away from them - their influence in elections.

[Parker2112]

The criminals will still violate the laws, and those who follow the laws will lose.

Win win for the liberals.

Because conservatives dont violate laws?

Funny how the OP transcends partisan politics, and here you come with partisan drivel.

You need to take a hard look at the process by which you wound up brainwashed, WC.

[MiamiHeat]

Brainwashed is a very good way to put it, Parker

Wild Cobra goes straight into partisan behavior. "Us vs Them", etc etc.... pretty sad but he's a glaring example of how people in this country behave. This is exactly how you conquer a nation. Divide and conquer. Democrats vs Republicans, Hutu's and Tutsi's, etc etc... let the people argue amongst themselves while the real issues go ignored.

[MiamiHeat]

Here are some good quotes

The Bank of the United States (1816-36), an early attempt at an American central bank, was abolished by President Andrew Jackson, who believed that it threatened the nation. He wrote: "The bold effort the present bank had made to control the government, the distress it had wantonly produced...are but premonitions of the fate that awaits the American people should they be deluded into a perpetuation of this institution or the establishment of another like it."


Something a bit more current:

Georgetown professor Dr. Carroll Quigley (Bill Clinton's mentor while at Georgetown) wrote about the goals of the investment bankers who control central banks: "... nothing less than to create a world system of financial control in private hands able to dominate the political system of each country and the economy of the world as a whole... controlled in a feudalist fashion by the central banks of the world acting in concert, by secret agreements arrived at in frequent private meetings and conferences."

[MiamiHeat]

How about some Roosevelt?

Behind the ostensible government sits enthroned an invisible government owing no allegiance and acknowledging no responsibility to the people.

- Theodore Roosevelt

[MiamiHeat]

How about some Eisenhower?

nUXtyIQjubU


The only way to fix this country is to remove the power in elections from the people/corporations who have all the $$$.

[MiamiHeat]

How about some Thomas Jefferson?

"The Central Bank is an institution of the most deadly hostility existing against the principles and form of our Constitution...if the American people allow private banks to control the issuance of their currency, first by inflation and then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around them will deprive the people of all their property until their children will wake up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered."

- Thomas Jefferson

[MiamiHeat]

How about some Woodrow Wilson?

"A great industrial nation is controlled by its system of credit. Our system of credit is privately concentrated. The growth of the nation, therefore, and all our activities are in the hands of a few men ... [W]e have come to be one of the worst ruled, one of the most completely controlled and dominated, governments in the civilized world—no longer a government by free opinion, no longer a government by conviction and the vote of the majority, but a government by the opinion and the duress of small groups of dominant men.

Since I entered politics, I have chiefly had men's views confided to me privately. Some of the biggest men in the United States, in the field of commerce and manufacture, are afraid of somebody, are afraid of something. They know that there is a power somewhere so organized, so subtle, so watchful, so interlocked, so complete, so pervasive, that they had better not speak above their breath when they speak in condemnation of it."

- Woodrow Wilson

[MiamiHeat]

some John Adams :

All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise not from defects in their Constitution or Confederation, nor from want of honor or virtue, so much as downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit, and circulation.

- John Adams

[Wild Cobra]

Because conservatives dont violate laws?

Funny how the OP transcends partisan politics, and here you come with partisan drivel.

You need to take a hard look at the process by which you wound up brainwashed, WC.
No, because there are more liberals who break laws than conservatives. Agree or disagree, but that is how I see things. Remember also, I'm speaking liberal/conservative. Not democrat/republican.

[boutons_deux]

"there are more liberals who break laws than conservatives"

hey, fullofshit, got any links? or do I have to my own research? :lol

The Clintons left numerous dead people in their wake.

[boutons_deux]

QE2 Means A Lower Dollar and Higher Gold Price

Ben Bernanke has no sure fire policy solution for economic stagnation. QE2, the $1 trillion quantitative easing expected, hoped for, prayed for, gossiped about, will only pour money into an economy that has no use for it. There is already $1.8 trillion cash on corporate balance sheets, $2 trillion cash in money market mutual funds and over $1 trillion reserves in commercial banks– a total of $4.8 trillion unused cash sitting silent. Creating no jobs, no consumer purchases.

The upshot will only drive down the dollar and drive up the price of gold, silver, platinum and other commodities. Thank David Rosenberg, the best informed, clearest thinker on Wall Street (Gluskin Sheff) for that strong sure view. Anyway, you missed the first 3% ride in commodities as the market began discounting QE2. last week.

QE2 will have a boomerang effect on the middle class. It will raise the price of wheat, sugar, coffee, poultry, beef, pork, raising their cost of living, reducing their disposable income. Just the opposite that Bernanke intends. Horrors!

http://blogs.forbes.com/robertlenzner/2010/10/12/qe2-means-a-lower%20-dollar-and-higher-gold-price/

[Parker2112]

No, because there are more liberals who break laws than conservatives. Agree or disagree, but that is how I see things. Remember also, I'm speaking liberal/conservative. Not democrat/republican.

Dont fool yourself. Liberal/Conservative is still a failure. The color of money doesnt change.

[Parker2112]

"there are more liberals who break laws than conservatives"

hey, fullofshit, got any links? or do I have to my own research? :lol

The Clintons left numerous dead people in their wake.

Boutons, you are just as insistant on engaging in the partisan combat.

[boutons_deux]

me, partisan? GFY

[Parker2112]

me, partisan? GFY

You are bound in partisan ties. You think the bad guys are conservative. The bad guys dont give a fuck about repubs, repugs, neocons, etc. But they definitely want you to.

[Parker2112]

comprehensive history of Bankster's attempts/successes/oustings/repeated attempts/repeated successes at controlling our currency.

This was already posted in a previous thread, however many couldnt view on the previously posted link.

This is a VERY GOOD DISCUSSION of the history of banksters and our currency, and the battle that has been waged, which history has conspicuously swept away from our collective memory.

D22TlYA8F2E

[Parker2112]

comprehensive history of Bankster's attempts/successes/oustings/repeated attempts/repeated successes at controlling our currency.

This was already posted in a previous thread, however many couldnt view on the previously posted link.

This is a VERY GOOD DISCUSSION of the history of banksters and our currency, and the battle that has been waged, which history has conspicuously swept away from our collective memory.

D22TlYA8F2E

Precis:
"Banks who loan to the federal govt make over 1000% interest on the purchase of US debt, through Fractional Reserve Lending"
"Govt could issue money without such bank controlled debt money system, by controlling currency themselves."
"Politicians trying to reduce the national debt dont have a chance until they address the underlying problem: the debt money system"
"Otherwise they are trying to borrow their way out of debt"
"Bulk of money world-wide is created by commercial banks through debt money systems"

Monetary History:
England:
"Establishment of the Bank of England, where bankers gained control of the currency in 1694, meaning govt had to borrow its currency, and England suffered."
"Within 75 years, the debt had balloned to consume 3/4 of taxes to pay interest alone."

Colonies:
"Colonies issued Colonial Scrip. England began requiring payment in gold, and the Colonies hit depression."
"Stamp Act drove colonials to revolt, essentially removing the ability of the colonials to print their own money."
"Continental Currency was issued after independence, but Britan counterfieted it and flooded the supply."
"1781 Continental Congress had to do something, they turned to a Central Bank modeled after bank of England"
"Inflation went rampant, Bank was killed within 4 years."
"During war, typically inflation is rampant when quantity of money goes through the roof."
"1791, another deceptively named bank was given the reigns through a 20 year charter."
"Jefferson wanted to stop federal borrowing to implement currency."
"Bank's chartered was not renewed, and the bank was called a scam."
"1816, bankers came back wanting the right to print money again."
"2nd Bank of US was again established."

Attempted assassination on Jackson:
"Andrew Jackson ran to repeal the banks charter, which was being condemned by the people at that time, and he won."
"Jackson vetoed renewal of the charter of the Central Bank."
"Jackson was the subject of an attempted assination."
"At that time he gave stern warnings against ever going back to a centralized bank."
"Booms and busts are engineered to strip people of assets."

Abe Lincoln defies bankers, and dies:
"Abe Lincoln creates Greenbacks 25 years later."
"High financial powers of Europe, schemed successfully to split the nation to Civil War, to prevent any success with fiat money."
"Lincoln attempted assination on the way to inauguration."
"Another attempted assasination the next month."
"Lincoln created greenbacks to pay troops in a debt free manner."
"Lincoln was subsequently assinated."

"Bankers began to reassert their control over the currency, using currency retraction."
"Money panics after the civil war caused people to began to agree that centralized control was needed."
"Depression followed."
compare: from 07-08, 40% of the world's wealth was retracted.
during the great depression: 33% of the currency was retracted.
The point: these events are engineered.

@53:00
Garfield's Assassination:
"1877, American Bankers Association put together a plan to subvert govt and media to stop a return to greenbacks."
"1878 election, 21 independents were elected as Greenbackers"
"James Garfield, in 1881, publicly slams banksters as the cause of boom/bust cycles."
"Within a few weeks, he is assassinated."

"1894 ABA schemes to trigger a depression and take 2/3's of the mortgaged farms east of the mississippi."
"unemployment goes up 600%"
"thousands of farms are foreclosed upon"
"William Jennings Bryan (the Lion) champions silver as a way to undo the stranglehold of gold based currency."
"ABA schemes to divide the population over tariffs, while they focus on keeping a stranglehold on currency."
"Bryan condemns the gold standard, as a crown of thorns upon the brow of labor."
@1:10
"Woodrow Wilson was backed by bankers, and eventually passed the Federal Reserve Act."

[Parker2112]

Bottom Line of the film:
Its not what you use to back your currency, it is who controls the currency that counts.

Bankers want to control currency to make interest off of the issuance at an astronomical amount.

Whats more, when bankers control the currency, not only do they make interest off of every dollar that enters circulation, but they can manipulate the amount of $ in circulation to engineer booms and busts, and during busts the retraction of $ supply moves wealth from citizens to banks through debt colection/foreclosure.

Govts can just as easily control issuance through a govt agency, with no need to borrow, and with the boom/bust cycle eliminated the citizens and the economy can maintain optimal levels of productivity with prudent issuance.

[LnGrrrR]

No, because there are more liberals who break laws than conservatives. Agree or disagree, but that is how I see things. Remember also, I'm speaking liberal/conservative. Not democrat/republican.

:lol A classic example of WC at his biased best. Throws out a "fact" without any data, then says "agree or disagree" to cover his own bias.

WC knows he can't back up theta t but tries to state his opinion as if it were assumed true.

[TDMVPDPOY]

devalue the US currency does jackshit to solve ur economic problems...

USA doesnt manufacture goods when most of the shit is outsouce into china...

the only thing you clowns are selling are weapons, even that is not enough to fund ur economy...

[Parker2112]

devalue the US currency does jackshit to solve ur economic problems...

USA doesnt manufacture goods when most of the shit is outsouce into china...

the only thing you clowns are selling are weapons, even that is not enough to fund ur economy...

Dont know where you're at, but this is a world-wide phenomena. There is a very good chance your country is doing it as well.

[DarkReign]

devalue the US currency does jackshit to solve ur economic problems...

USA doesnt manufacture goods when most of the shit is outsouce into china...

the only thing you clowns are selling are weapons, even that is not enough to fund ur economy...

Limited view of it, for sure. What you fail to account for is "Who buys all the world's shit?"

Thats the US. Without the USA consuming China's/India's/Mexico's exports, those countries are finito, as well.

...which is why China is trying to dissuade the US from devaluing our currency.

[Wild Cobra]

Limited view of it, for sure. What you fail to account for is "Who buys all the world's shit?"

Thats the US. Without the USA consuming China's/India's/Mexico's exports, those countries are finito, as well.

...which is why China is trying to dissuade the US from devaluing our currency.
My point has always been that devaluing our currency will make imports more expensive, our exports cheaper to the rest of the world, and return manufacturing jobs here.

[Wild Cobra]

:lol A classic example of WC at his biased best. Throws out a "fact" without any data, then says "agree or disagree" to cover his own bias.

WC knows he can't back up theta t but tries to state his opinion as if it were assumed true.
Take a poll sometime of the prison population. Liberal vs. conservative.

[Parker2112]

My point has always been that devaluing our currency will make imports more expensive, our exports cheaper to the rest of the world, and return manufacturing jobs here.

Returns manufacturing jobs at 3rd world wages. $15 dollars an hour after inflation could be worse than the current minimum wage.

[Parker2112]

Anyone else here see the connection between [control of our currency] and [political assassinations]?

[Wild Cobra]

Returns manufacturing jobs at 3rd world wages. $15 dollars an hour after inflation could be worse than the current minimum wage.
I see that one flew over your Cuckoo nest.

You fail to see what happens when world currency rates change.

[DarkReign]

My point has always been that devaluing our currency will make imports more expensive, our exports cheaper to the rest of the world, and return manufacturing jobs here.

To sell to whom and at what price?

I think you may be missing the overall effect of a devalued currency.

Will a devalued currency make domestic goods cheaper than foreign? Absolutely.
Will anyone domestically be able to afford those goods? Most likely not.

Phrases like "feeling the pinch" and "minding your money" will become incapable of describing the transition for a normal, tax-paying American.

If our currency is devalued, oil becomes more expensive...by an astronomical amount, pricing everyday citizens right out of the market. How do you get to work? How do you sell your current house to move closer to work in an economy where no one can even buy? Even worse, youre already close to work but your company fails or dismisses you? What then? Back to square one.

A devalued currency certainly makes our exports cheaper, but kindly ask who is going to buy them? We are one of the few open markets in the world, most governments have tariffs and protectionist policies that "level the playing field" with their own domestic goods.

No easy answers to any of this, really. Two that I see: isolationism, which is the way I always thought it should be, and the one I most loathe, single currency.

[Wild Cobra]

To sell to whom and at what price?

I think you may be missing the overall effect of a devalued currency.

Will a devalued currency make domestic goods cheaper than foreign? Absolutely.
Will anyone domestically be able to afford those goods? Most likely not.

Phrases like "feeling the pinch" and "minding your money" will become incapable of describing the transition for a normal, tax-paying American.

If our currency is devalued, oil becomes more expensive...by an astronomical amount, pricing everyday citizens right out of the market. How do you get to work? How do you sell your current house to move closer to work in an economy where no one can even buy? Even worse, youre already close to work but your company fails or dismisses you? What then? Back to square one.

A devalued currency certainly makes our exports cheaper, but kindly ask who is going to buy them? We are one of the few open markets in the world, most governments have tariffs and protectionist policies that "level the playing field" with their own domestic goods.

No easy answers to any of this, really. Two that I see: isolationism, which is the way I always thought it should be, and the one I most loathe, single currency.
Yes, your points have merit for the cost of oil. However, it would probably prompt us to drill more oil. The extra supply might keep the prices in check, and even make oil cheaper for other nations. That said, it might reduce funding to terrorists from nations like Iran, as their selling price drops with the extra supply.

[Winehole23]

That's very wishful thinking, WC.

[LnGrrrR]

Take a poll sometime of the prison population. Liberal vs. conservative.

Considering that blacks are far more represented in jail vs their representation in the general population, there's a chance you're right. Of course, it must just be because they're liberal. I'm sure lower wealth, race, or any other factors play in.

There are more white people in jail than blacks. Does that mean a white person is more likely to cause a crime WC?

[Parker2112]

I see that one flew over your Cuckoo nest.

You fail to see what happens when world currency rates change.

Inflation is inflation. If there is too much currency in circulation, its worth squat. All day every day. Exchange rates wont help you buy a loaf of bread at the supermarket for reasonable price after devaluation has trashed the currency.

[Parker2112]

To sell to whom and at what price?

I think you may be missing the overall effect of a devalued currency.

Will a devalued currency make domestic goods cheaper than foreign? Absolutely.
Will anyone domestically be able to afford those goods? Most likely not.



WC is not the brightest bulb in the pack.

[Parker2112]

That's very wishful thinking, WC.

more like lack of thinking...

[Wild Cobra]

That's very wishful thinking, WC.
It doesn't take much of a supply change to make a large price change.

Don't ask me to quantify it. I do think it can keep the impact from being damaging.

[Wild Cobra]

Considering that blacks are far more represented in jail vs their representation in the general population, there's a chance you're right. Of course, it must just be because they're liberal. I'm sure lower wealth, race, or any other factors play in.

There are more white people in jail than blacks. Does that mean a white person is more likely to cause a crime WC?
Ha ha.

Why pose such a silly question?

Look, I've seen the data in the far past. I haven't a clue where to find it. i will assume it boils down to more people who depend on government end up being liberal minded than conservative. This same class, regardless of color, commit more crimes. If you wish to interject race, which i wasn't implying, I think that boils down the same way. there are simply more black living lower standards, and being and voting liberal.

It comes down to culture and wealth. Not race.

[Parker2112]

It doesn't take much of a supply change to make a large price change.

Don't ask me to quantify it. I do think it can keep the impact from being damaging.

because bread will come rushing in from Mexico?

[Winehole23]

WC is not the brightest bulb in the pack.Neither are you.

[CosmicCowboy]

WC, sometimes I think you can't possibly believe some of the stuff you post and just take your positions to be a contrarian to the forum libs. Either way, your positions on the economy are terribly myopic and overly simplistic.

[Winehole23]

more like lack of thinking...You more resemble than differ from him in that respect.

[Wild Cobra]

WC, sometimes I think you can't possibly believe some of the stuff you post and just take your positions to be a contrarian to the forum libs. Either way, your positions on the economy are terribly myopic and overly simplistic.
I never claimed to have all the answers. I simply know some causes and effects. Agreed that the overall points I make may have bad aspects I don't foresee. However, I understand the real sciences pretty good.

Oh...

Sometimes I do take the extreme point, to make a point.

[Parker2112]

Ha ha.

Why pose such a silly question?

Look, I've seen the data in the far past. I haven't a clue where to find it. i will assume it boils down to more people who depend on government end up being liberal minded than conservative. This same class, regardless of color, commit more crimes. If you wish to interject race, which i wasn't implying, I think that boils down the same way. there are simply more black living lower standards, and being and voting liberal.

It comes down to culture and wealth. Not race.

It ALL boils down to economics, WC. If you never learned a single thing, learn this: A man with nothing to lose will do anything he damn well pleases.

I have a distant family member who is a three-time ex-con, a white supremicist, and who hates Obama as much as you.

[Wild Cobra]

I have a distant family member who is a three-time ex-con, a white supremicist, and who hates Obama as much as you.
Are all white supremacists conservative? The one I know is rather liberal.

[Parker2112]

You more resemble than differ from him in that respect.

At times, you'll see me with my pants down, no doubt.

But regardless: WH, Did you take anything from the assassination timeline?

[CosmicCowboy]

But regardless: WH, Did you take anything from the assassination timeline?

I thought you posted that shit as a joke.

[Parker2112]

Are all white supremacists conservative? The one I know is rather liberal.

He would give his left nut for a white president right now. And since Dems are the party whose policies lean towards minorities, they are the scourge of the Earth to him.

[Winehole23]

WH, Did you take anything from the assassination timeline?Yes. Correlation does not equal causation.

What did you take from it?

[Parker2112]

I thought you posted that shit as a joke.

It was a summary of the film. The guy tied the civil war and the various assissination attempts to the strife over currency control . He also references the European influence over the American Bankers Assoc, even back then. According to him, the Europeans had been trying to get in on our currency since the Dec of Independ.

[Parker2112]

Yes. Correlation does not equal causation.

What did you take from it?

It gave me a knew respect for history, I guess you could say.

I dont know one way or the other, but I do know that if the film's premise is true, then this timeline is incredibly important for citizens to know.

The film contends that every time people forgot about the downfalls of central banking, they would leave their guard down and allow it back in.

Did you get the bit about media control by the ABA in the late 1800's?

[MiamiHeat]

This is all about MONEY.

Stop arguing lilberal conservative, dem vs repub garbage.

The real problems in this world all arise due to GREED FOR MONEY.

1) There is absolutely nothing wrong with making money. Making money is a good thing.

2) However, GREED is a bad thing. Devoid of ethics and gluttonous.

Wars, all of the problems, are rooted in powerful people and corporations who just want to make more and more $$$.

Get focused on the right issues. These powerful entities don't care if you're black or white, dem or repub, they don't give a shit. They don't care if you're Axis or Allied, they will fund both sides of the war, fund both political parties in USA, etc...

[Winehole23]

Did you get the bit about media control by the ABA in the late 1800's?No. What about it?

[Parker2112]

Does anyone here know how boom/bust cycles can be manipulated to extract wealth from a nation? Anybody bother to look up Fractional Reserve Lending? Anybody figure out whether the Federal Reserve is actually a Federal Agency?

[Parker2112]

No. What about it?

The guy cited ABA publications saying that if they were going to retain control and keep silver from slipping in, which the bankers had no control over, they were going to have to control the press and brainwash voters.

Which they used to defeat Bryan the Lion.

[Parker2112]

Anyone catch this?

compare:
from 07-08, 40% of the world's wealth was retracted.
vs.
during the great depression: 33% of the currency was retracted.
The point: these depression events are engineered.

[Wild Cobra]

Anyone catch this?
Was it engineered, or enough people with money saw the writing on the wall, pulling out their money and putting it in safer investments?

[LnGrrrR]

Ha ha.

Why pose such a silly question?

I merely inverted your burden of proof. You said that liberals are more likely to commit crime because (you believe) that more liberals are in jail. As I pointed out, that is a non-sequitur, as obviously you can't assume that whites commit more crimes before there are more whites in jail.


Look, I've seen the data in the far past. I haven't a clue where to find it.

Then you'll understand why I'm skeptical of your memory. You are a big skeptic yourself, aren't you? Don't you often say you want the facts?


i will assume it boils down to more people who depend on government end up being liberal minded than conservative. This same class, regardless of color, commit more crimes.

Without proof, why should I believe you?


If you wish to interject race, which i wasn't implying, I think that boils down the same way. there are simply more black living lower standards, and being and voting liberal.

Why do you think that "voting liberal" has more to do with crime than lower living standards, hm?


It comes down to culture and wealth. Not race.

I agree that it culture and wealth play much bigger roles than race. I was merely using an analogy. But your assertion that "being liberal" means one is more likely to commit crimes should probably be backed up by some sort of facts.

[Parker2112]

The film is well-worth watching.

Bottom line: Why have the currency in the hands of private banking interests, when the currency can be controlled by an actually federal agaency, hopefully to suit the needs of our nation rather than promote increased consumer leveraging for long periods of time and then come in and suck up assetts like a vacuum.

[Parker2112]

Was it engineered, or enough people with money saw the writing on the wall, pulling out their money and putting it in safer investments?

we are not talking about capital. we are talking about wealth...currency in circulation. That is what the film claims anyway.

Starts around 46:00 mark of the video.

[Parker2112]

Heres the cite: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE52966Z20090310

[Parker2112]

Here is another:


Milton Friedman: The Federal Reserve definitely caused the Great Depression by contracting the amount of money in circulation by one-third from 1929 to 1933

National Public Radio interview (Jan 1996)

[Wild Cobra]

Oh, I see...

You mean wealth on paper, not backed by anything tangible. Well you know what... That's why bubbles burst.

[Parker2112]

Oh, I see...

You mean wealth on paper, not backed by anything tangible. Well you know what... That's why bubbles burst.

How could I spell it out for you any more than I have, WC? Its not the backing, its the control. By fluctuating the amount of currency, you can engineer recessions, AND bubbles.

But gold std actually allows MORE control of currency by the elite class.

[Parker2112]

Go-Go Cosmic Cowboy and his keen economic savvy!!!

[Wild Cobra]

How could I spell it out for you any more than I have, WC? Its not the backing, its the control. By fluctuating the amount of currency, you can engineer recessions, AND bubbles.

But gold std actually allows MORE control of currency by the elite class.
OK, call me dense in this area.

Please explain how someone just makes wealth disappear.

[Parker2112]

OK, call me dense in this area.

Please explain how someone just makes wealth disappear.

Under the law, currency can be extrated from circulation. Im sure they just take money from banks and decommission it, or destroy it.

[Parker2112]

Ever wonder why we stopped seeing the old money at some point, and every bill had a big head on it? Same concept.

[Wild Cobra]

How could I spell it out for you any more than I have, WC? Its not the backing, its the control. By fluctuating the amount of currency, you can engineer recessions, AND bubbles.

But gold std actually allows MORE control of currency by the elite class.
If you mean by pulling out money/wealth that doesn't really exist, then I agree. Like I said, on paper...

[Wild Cobra]

Under the law, currency can be extrated from circulation. Im sure they just take money from banks and decommission it, or destroy it.
And how does this affect anyone who has real money already?

[Parker2112]

And how does this affect anyone who has real money already?

You already know what happens when a market seizes up due to lack of liquidity. You know what affect that has. economic recession or depression.

[Winehole23]

@Parker2112:

Is it your contention that the Panic of 2008 was the result of currency manipulation?

[Parker2112]

@Parker2112:

Is it your contention that the Panic of 2008 was the result of currency manipulation?

The film says that.

[Parker2112]

I havent been able to verify the global currency retraction they reference for 07-08...and I did briefly look.

[Winehole23]

So you're just throwing shit on the wall again. Thought so. See ya later.

[Wild Cobra]

You already know what happens when a market seizes up due to lack of liquidity. You know what affect that has. economic recession or depression.
A viable market exists just fine without liquidity. When business relies on borrowing, then there is something wrong.

[Wild Cobra]

The film says that.
OK I understand...

If I want you to believe me, I have to make a YouTube video.

OK.

[Parker2112]

So you're just throwing shit on the wall again. Thought so. See ya later.

From a single point of your choosing, you dismiss the whole thing? How very astute. bye now.

[Parker2112]

A viable market exists just fine without liquidity. When business relies on borrowing, then there is something wrong. You admittedly know shit about economics.

I think the larger point is: when know-it-all types are confronted with major information which challenges the paradigm they fervently cling to, they may get scared and dismiss the whole thing rather than admit potential fallibility.

[Wild Cobra]

You admittedly [don't] know shit about economics.
There are many facets of economics. I understand some rather well, others I have little understanding in. Your point simply does not ring true, and you have yet to convince me.

I think the larger point is: when know-it-all types are confronted with major information which challenges the paradigm they fervently cling to, they may get scared and dismiss the whole thing rather than admit potential fallibility.
Actually, I often ask questions or investigate when I don't know.

Consider this. If wealth relies on the actions of other entities, is it really wealth? If someone can suddenly pull a string here and there, and make it disappear, I don't see how it was ever real.

[Parker2112]

study boom bust cycles. try on some of the info I presented above. You wont be disappointed.

[Wild Cobra]

study boom bust cycles. try on some of the info I presented above. You wont be disappointed.
Without a synopsis of what I will see and a link, forget it. And don't expect me to watch or load an hr. + video.

[Parker2112]

Synopsis, you say?


Precis:
"Banks who loan to the federal govt make over 1000% interest on the purchase of US debt, through Fractional Reserve Lending"
"Govt could issue money without such bank controlled debt money system, by controlling currency themselves."
"Politicians trying to reduce the national debt dont have a chance until they address the underlying problem: the debt money system"
"Otherwise they are trying to borrow their way out of debt"
"Bulk of money world-wide is created by commercial banks through debt money systems"

Monetary History:
England:
"Establishment of the Bank of England, where bankers gained control of the currency in 1694, meaning govt had to borrow its currency, and England suffered."
"Within 75 years, the debt had balloned to consume 3/4 of taxes to pay interest alone."

Colonies:
"Colonies issued Colonial Scrip. England began requiring payment in gold, and the Colonies hit depression."
"Stamp Act drove colonials to revolt, essentially removing the ability of the colonials to print their own money."
"Continental Currency was issued after independence, but Britan counterfieted it and flooded the supply."
"1781 Continental Congress had to do something, they turned to a Central Bank modeled after bank of England"
"Inflation went rampant, Bank was killed within 4 years."
"During war, typically inflation is rampant when quantity of money goes through the roof."
"1791, another deceptively named bank was given the reigns through a 20 year charter."
"Jefferson wanted to stop federal borrowing to implement currency."
"Bank's chartered was not renewed, and the bank was called a scam."
"1816, bankers came back wanting the right to print money again."
"2nd Bank of US was again established."

Attempted assassination on Jackson:
"Andrew Jackson ran to repeal the banks charter, which was being condemned by the people at that time, and he won."
"Jackson vetoed renewal of the charter of the Central Bank."
"Jackson was the subject of an attempted assination."
"At that time he gave stern warnings against ever going back to a centralized bank."
"Booms and busts are engineered to strip people of assets."

Abe Lincoln defies bankers, and dies:
"Abe Lincoln creates Greenbacks 25 years later."
"High financial powers of Europe, schemed successfully to split the nation to Civil War, to prevent any success with fiat money."
"Lincoln attempted assination on the way to inauguration."
"Another attempted assasination the next month."
"Lincoln created greenbacks to pay troops in a debt free manner."
"Lincoln was subsequently assinated."

"Bankers began to reassert their control over the currency, using currency retraction."
"Money panics after the civil war caused people to began to agree that centralized control was needed."
"Depression followed."
compare: from 07-08, 40% of the world's wealth was retracted.
during the great depression: 33% of the currency was retracted.
The point: these events are engineered.

@53:00
Garfield's Assassination:
"1877, American Bankers Association put together a plan to subvert govt and media to stop a return to greenbacks."
"1878 election, 21 independents were elected as Greenbackers"
"James Garfield, in 1881, publicly slams banksters as the cause of boom/bust cycles."
"Within a few weeks, he is assassinated."

"1894 ABA schemes to trigger a depression and take 2/3's of the mortgaged farms east of the mississippi."
"unemployment goes up 600%"
"thousands of farms are foreclosed upon"
"William Jennings Bryan (the Lion) champions silver as a way to undo the stranglehold of gold based currency."
"ABA schemes to divide the population over tariffs, while they focus on keeping a stranglehold on currency."
"Bryan condemns the gold standard, as a crown of thorns upon the brow of labor."
@1:10
"Woodrow Wilson was backed by bankers, and eventually passed the Federal Reserve Act."

[Nbadan]

Ron Paul and Prison Planet...this has win written all over it!

[Wild Cobra]

OK, so the real wealth, not the imaginary wealth, was transferred. I didn't see any real wealth disappearing. Did you?

[Parker2112]

Ron Paul and Prison Planet...this has win written all over it!

Hey, it won best film at the Sierra Nevada Film Festival:wow

[Parker2112]

OK, so the real wealth, not the imaginary wealth, was transferred. I didn't see any real wealth disappearing. Did you?

you understand the transfer of wealth that is currently taking place between the classes right?

[Wild Cobra]

you understand the transfer of wealth that is currently taking place between the classes right?
Do you mean the government giving our tax dollars to the elite?

I doubt I know what you are talking about. I'm not a mind reader. You could mean one of several things. Please explain.

[Parker2112]

Do you mean the government giving our tax dollars to the elite?


yeah that one. Well, it has nothing to do with govt. Everything to do with the commercial banking interests, manipulating the currency through the fed. Do the homework above.

[Wild Cobra]

yeah that one. Well, it has nothing to do with govt. Everything to do with the commercial banking interests, manipulating the currency through the fed. Do the homework above.
Not a priority.

[Parker2112]

http://www.activistpost.com/2010/10/after-fed-solutions-debate-begins.html

[Parker2112]

Not a priority.

Im sure you would much rather continue railing on Obama than educate yourself on how economics actually work.

[CosmicCowboy]

Im sure you would much rather continue railing on Obama than educate yourself on how economics actually work.

LMAO. I remember telling my friends before the 2010 election I couldn't imagine ANYONE wanting to be President for the next few years with the economy going to shit. Obama won. Suck on it, big boy.

[Parker2112]

Give me control of a nation's money supply, and I care not who makes its laws.

Mayer Rothschild

[Winehole23]

From a single point of your choosing, you dismiss the whole thing? How very astute. bye now.Hello. I had to work. What you been doing?

[Winehole23]

You still like a stuffed shirt apparently. I never confessed to even watching that bullshit.

[Winehole23]

Why else did you think I was askin you questions? :lol

[Winehole23]

LMAO. I remember telling my friends before the 2010 election I couldn't imagine ANYONE wanting to be President for the next few years with the economy going to shit. Obama won. Suck on it, big boy.N.B., CC, Parker2112 is nonpartisan. He'll tell you so himself. :lol

[TDMVPDPOY]

doesnt the devalue of the dollar and appreciation of the yuan just fucks up ur NFD and interest payments? means you be forking out more then whatever is numbered on that banner

[Winehole23]

China's coordination is crucial. China needs to unclench a little.

[Winehole23]

From a single point of your choosing, you dismiss the whole thing?Actually, you made the selection. You quoted it upstream.

I'm the one who didn't watch your youtube. I just judged your selection from it.

If you can't tell me in your own words WTF you're talking about, your argument barely exists for me Parkay. I ain't gonna watch your bs youtubes. Your wisdom writing is overrated, and the only reason I have any confidence about that, is I'm slightly familiar with the one person who overrates it. If you can't fill in the blanks shut up and listen for a change. Your bs is weak.

[Winehole23]

In essence, you criticized me for highlighting your own emphasis. Got something to hide?

[Winehole23]

(...butter...)

[Winehole23]

You sure couldn't back it up.

[Parker2112]

Actually, you made the selection. You quoted it upstream.

I'm the one who didn't watch your youtube. I just judged your selection from it.

If you can't tell me in your own words WTF you're talking about, your argument barely exists for me Parkay. I ain't gonna watch your bs youtubes. Your wisdom writing is overrated, and the only reason I have any confidence about that, is I'm slightly familiar with the one person who overrates it. If you can't fill in the blanks shut up and listen for a change. Your bs is weak.

Why is it that everything posted is my argument?

Thats your strawman to dismiss it. All day every day.

Why cant you just shoot straight? If youre skeptical, call it.

I looked up some info about the great depression, and was able to confirm a couple of cites. But actually, I found one cite that I think the film misrepresented, and in fact it was about the retraction of world currency in 07-08. It has made me a little skeptical.

HOWEVER: I watched this film. I learned a good bit about the way the fed works. I learned about fractional reserve lending, and the proift potential for banks loaning to the govt. I learned about greenbacks and goldbugs and such. I reinforced my understanding about how boom/bust cycles can be manipulated, and how bankers can benefit from that manipulation. I gained a historical perspective of how European interests have been interested in our currency for centuries. And how several presidents who pushed for greenbacks and decentralized banking were killed or attempted to be.

All that without having to buy the precis of the film.

THE BENEFIT FROM WATCHING: When the argument is made to end the fed, I understand that take. I also understand the opposition, that says that the central bank allows security for our economy, and prevents runs and public panics.

And if you ask me, the only person I've run across with any solid take on these matters is CC, so the rest of those that took time to involve themselves in the discourse might benefit from the film. And though evidently you know enough to dismiss the film you have never watched (your distinction of "Parker's take on the film" is dubious, when you get right down to it), I havent seen any insightful speak come from your direction.

[Winehole23]

Why is it that everything posted is my argument?You're mostly too wimpy to stake out a real position. You just throw shit on the wall and pretend to fence sit. It's incredibly lame.

If youre skeptical, call it. Already did. I'm skeptical of you.

I looked up some info about the great depression, and was able to confirm a couple of cites. But actually, I found one cite that I think the film misrepresented, and in fact it was about the retraction of world currency in 07-08. It has made me a little skeptical. Skeptical about your own emphasis. That's progress, I guess.


HOWEVER: I watched this film. I learned a good bit about the way the fed works. I learned about fractional reserve lending, and the proift potential for banks loaning to the govt. I learned about greenbacks and goldbugs and such. I reinforced my understanding about how boom/bust cycles can be manipulated, and how bankers can benefit from that manipulation.You just fell off the fence, again.

I gained a historical perspective of how European interests have been interested in our currency for centuries. And how several presidents who pushed for greenbacks and decentralized banking were killed or attempted to be.There's the lame bs again.

All that without having to buy the precis of the film.Go fluff a LaRoucheite.

THE BENEFIT FROM WATCHING: When the argument is made to end the fed, I understand that take. I also understand the opposition, that says that the central bank allows security for our economy, and prevents runs and public panics.More uber courageous fence sitting. :tu

And if you ask me, the only person I've run across with any solid take on these matters is CC, so the rest of those that took time to involve themselves in the discourse might benefit from the film. What it offers up, if your precis of it is accurate, is pretty hackneyed. Go blow a LaRoucheite if you think it's so great. I pass.

And though evidently you know enough to dismiss the film you have never watched (your distinction of "Parker's take on the film" is dubious, when you get right down to it), I havent seen any insightful speak come from your direction.Insightful speak. Did you hit your head when you fell off the fence again? :lol

[Parker2112]

You're mostly too wimpy to stake out a real position. You just throw shit on the wall and pretend to fence sit. It's incredibly lame.
Already did. I'm skeptical of you.
Skeptical about your own emphasis. That's progress, I guess.
You just fell off the fence, again.
There's the lame bs again.
Go fluff a LaRoucheite.
More uber courageous fence sitting. :tu
What it offers up, if your precis of it is accurate, is pretty hackneyed. Go blow a LaRoucheite if you think it's so great. I pass.
Insightful speak. Did you hit your head when you fell off the fence again? :lol

I am skeptical as to whether you know a damn thing about the topic at all. Way to turn the whole issue into another personal attack. Its hard to believe youre still butthurt, WH....but then again I guess not.

[Parker2112]

my argument?

Thats your strawman to dismiss it. All day every day.

Why cant you just shoot straight?

[Winehole23]

(Overrated)

[Winehole23]

Your self-quotation only emphasizes the fail and fatuity (http://dictionary.die.net/fatuity) again. You should quit while you're already behind, Parkay.

[Winehole23]

SOPHISTRY, n. The controversial method of an opponent, distinguished from one's own by superior insincerity and fooling. This method is that of the later Sophists, a Grecian sect of philosophers who began by teaching wisdom, prudence, science, art and, in brief, whatever men ought to know, but lost themselves in a maze of quibbles and a fog of words.

His bad opponent's "facts" he sweeps away,
And drags his sophistry to light of day;
Then swears they're pushed to madness who resort

To falsehood of so desperate a sort.
Not so; like sods upon a dead man's breast,
He lies most lightly who the least is pressed.
—Polydore Smith

[Parker2112]

[Whatever the strawman, fill in blank here...]

Why cant you just shoot straight? If youre skeptical, call it.

[Parker2112]

If you can't tell me in your own words WTF you're talking about, your argument....

What argument? I referenced the film, synthesized the premise, and presented it for discussion.

You attacked me personally.

[Winehole23]

I'm calling you a bullshitter. I don't understand what's not straightforward about that.

[Winehole23]

You attacked me personally.You're hardly above picking on others and you can't take it?

Wah.

[Parker2112]

I dont give a fuck honestly...WH, I know when I post shit that has any tie toe Alex Jones, I all but guarantee personal attacks such as yours. If I gave a fuck I wouldnt post it in the first place.

But on this issue, the message is aligned with quite a few historical characters who stood against any centralized bank. And like many of those warnings explicitly point out, when we cease to understand the monetary system, that is when we will lose our democracy. And so we have. And the lack of insight on the currency...the absolute failure of several, including yourself, to discuss intelligently, makes me think that John Adams was right...


John Adams
All the perplexities, confusion and distress in America arise not from defects in their Constitution or Confederation, nor from want of honor or virtue, so much as downright ignorance of the nature of coin, credit, and circulation.

[Parker2112]

I'm calling you a bullshitter. I don't understand what's not straightforward about that.

And I am saying you're incapable of intelligent debate on the topic. So 1+1=2, I guess we both call-em-as-we-see-em.

[Winehole23]

I'll put it this way, Parker. I'm slightly sympathetic to your cause but it behooves me to to assail your credibility and kill your thread. It's that important to me. You're a bad ambassador for the cause.

[Parker2112]

You have certainly killed it, dumbass.

[Winehole23]

I'm cool with that.