Who would you cut after this game? - Clippers game edition

[ElNono]

If you had to make a decision to cut one guy after this game, which guy would that be?

[ducks]

Hill

[DPG21920]

Before the poll my answer is the same as the first one. Simmons.

[FvckMavs]

Manu. We need a better coach.

[MaNu4Tres]

Rj

[Ditty]

I voted gist but hope he finds himself in austin and works on the offensive game a bit and comes back on the squad next year

[DesignatedT]

Giving Gee a pass, I voted Gist.

[DespЏrado]

Bonner, he hit a nice three, but as Steve Smith says he gets too many minutes for the team to be successful.

George Hill needs to play a little better.

Hill and Parker should be dominating everyone, and they just aren't.

[Manu20]

I have been rooting for temple from the beginning but he has not shown absolutely nothing this preseason :(

[CFH]

Temple, I haven't seen him do anything positive so far. I guess that injury really set him back.

[ogait]

Based on today's performance it would be Temple. But I like him and still hope his poor play is related with the injury.
So either Gee or Gist.

[ElNono]

I'm debating between the Temple/Simmons/Gist trio. Gee is an easy option but I've seen zero from the guy.

[Obstructed_View]

Gist has regressed. The promise he showed his rookie year is a distant memory. The square peg into a small forward experiment is a dismal failure. They should just let him be what he is, an undersized power forward and let him get blocks and rebound in Austin before they just wash their hands of him altogether.

Pop loves shooters, so anybody who makes a shot is going to stick in his memory. We know how important threes are...to the front office.

Temple was a lock to make the team three games ago, and CJ certainly seems to be carrying the momentum from summer league into preseason. BTW, if Hairston and Mahinmi don't get credit for playing well in the past, neither does Temple.

Definitely need some news on Gee. He's a mystery at this point.

[DPG21920]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I guarantee Malik would be the best perimeter defender on this team at this point.

[DesignatedT]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I guarantee Malik would be the best perimeter defender on this team at this point.

:deadhorse

[DPG21920]

It's the truth. But again, that is not saying much compared to what you have seen defensively from the new guys brought in, no?

[Obstructed_View]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I guarantee Malik would be the best perimeter defender on this team at this point.

You mean if he didn't have a debilitating injury, right? He still hasn't recovered if the most recent information is correct.

[HarlemHeat37]

IMO, at this point, it's pretty obvious that Hairston's injury was the main contributor to going overseas(as the SpursTalk insider Trill Clinton has already said)..he looked much, much better in last year's preseason than any of the Spurs' current prospects right now..

[DPG21920]

You mean if he didn't have a debilitating injury, right? He still hasn't recovered if the most recent information is correct.

Yeah. I meant from what we have seen. I know he is injured, but the Spurs really need someone with at least his ability on the defensive end. To date, none of the prospects kept look any where even close on that end.

[DesignatedT]

Well I would love to see what Gee can do. I thought his overall defense was pretty solid during the Summer League. I'm hoping he's somewhat "safe" and that is the reason he is seeing very limited playing time. Could be a little injury or something also. Who knows.

[Obstructed_View]

Yeah, dude should have been playing all last year, probably starting a number of games. We'd just miss having him more now, but at least there would be a chance of getting him back. Oh well.

[HarlemHeat37]

BTW, even though I dislike Bobby Simmons's game and don't want him on the team, I would actually say he's nearly a lock to make the team..I would be very, very surprised if he doesn't make the team..he's a prototypical Pop player..

[DPG21920]

Yeah, Gee seems to be the only one with enough upside to come close. I really hope he gets to prove what he can do and I am rooting for him to pan out.

[DPG21920]

BTW, even though I dislike Bobby Simmons's game and don't want him on the team, I would actually say he's nearly a lock to make the team..

It's a numbers/positional/shooting game. Spurs really need shooters. They also really need SF's.

[ElNono]

Gee was supposed to be the Hairston replacement... I just don't know what happened between Vegas and now...

[TD 21]

Gist is a lost cause..he's a fan favorite, I like him too, but he's never going to find a niche in the NBA..he's stuck in a tough spot..he doesn't have the tools to play the 3, and he still hasn't figured out how to use his athleticism advantage against 4s..

Neal and Simmons haven't impressed me at all..I've been saying Simmons was done for months, he hasn't proven me wrong..they are both shooters though, and we know how much Pop and his system needs shooters, so I would be very surprised if they are both cut..Simmons is Bogans, with a slightly better 3-point shot and significantly worse on defense..

Temple is tough..he has looked absolutely horrible, but you also have to consider how he played during meaningful games last year..I was never high on him, but he definitely should get some credit for how he played last year..

CJ looks like he's finally getting it together..I would have him ahead of Temple at this point..

Gee is my favorite of the bunch, but he has barely gotten any PT during preseason..is it due to injury?..is he going to get cut without having a chance?..does he already have a spot?..tough to say..he's by far the closest thing the Spurs have to a potential wing defender though..

Simmons and Neal are strictly shooters. Three games isn't a large enough sample size to determine whether they can be of use, since their use should be judged almost strictly on their percentage from 3 (I'd be saying the same thing if they were scorching the net). If they can shoot 40% or better from 3, they can justify their existence on this team.

Simmons is going to make the cut by default. He's not assured of sticking all season, though.

Temple is going to beat out Jerrells because not only did he play well in meaningful games last season, but he's versatile and decent enough defensively to potentially play spot minutes against top opposition wings, which is obviously the biggest need on the team.

I seriously doubt the Spurs would cut Gee without giving him a chance. If he were injured, I presume we would have heard something by now. I still think he's 50/50 to make the team (depending on whether they carry 13 or 14), but even if he does, I expect him to primarily play with the Toros.

[DesignatedT]

BTW, even though I dislike Bobby Simmons's game and don't want him on the team, I would actually say he's nearly a lock to make the team..I would be very, very surprised if he doesn't make the team..he's a prototypical Pop player..

Unfortunately, you're probably right. Only thing keeping me optimistic there is the fact that the Spurs didn't give him a guaranteed deal to begin with... like Bogans last year.

[Obstructed_View]

It's a numbers/positional/shooting game. Spurs really need shooters. They also really need SF's.

And point guards. As someone mentioned, Jerrells has been running the team better than anyone but Parker. If he can just be steady and do what he does well, he can be a solid backup.

[ElNono]

BTW, even though I dislike Bobby Simmons's game and don't want him on the team, I would actually say he's nearly a lock to make the team..I would be very, very surprised if he doesn't make the team..he's a prototypical Pop player..

Masterpiece indeed.

[DPG21920]

I am not really worried about the guard spot with TP/Hill/Manu.

[HarlemHeat37]

I understand the logic of having Simmons on the roster, it's just unfortunate that the Spurs don't really have any options..

Jefferson better make some fucking 3-pointers this season, it would negate having a guy like Simmons on the roster..

[ElNono]

Simmons in means Gee out, I believe. You just have to wonder what happened with Alonzo. He did play a bit the previous game.

[#2!]

Temple has played terribly, and its really a question of whether or not the Spurs feel they can wait for him to get his shit together during the regular season. Probably not though considering he isn't going to be getting minutes in the playoffs anyways. Jerrells has been looking better with each game.

I get there's a fear of overplaying him, but I don't get why everyone bags on Simmons as much as they do. He isn't a good defender, but from what I can tell neither are the guys he's competing with. On the plus side, he seems to always know when to take a shot, and even has some junk in his game in order to get better looks.


Based on tonight's team performance of guys running around with no sense of spacing (especially in the 1st half) I think it'd do the Spurs well to have a thoughtful player like Simmons available.

[DesignatedT]

Maybe they want Gee to spend more time in Austin. I dont know

[Obstructed_View]

Temple is going to beat out Jerrells because not only did he play well in meaningful games last season, but he's versatile and decent enough defensively to potentially play spot minutes against top opposition wings, which is obviously the biggest need on the team.

I'm getting to the point where I think the issues have separated. They might keep CJ as a point guard and keep Temple because he has a chance to be a defensive specialist. If it comes down to a decision between the two, I'll be happy if they choose defense, though I'm pretty impressed with CJ's development (he was frustrating to watch at Baylor).

[ElNono]

I get there's a fear of overplaying him, but I don't get why everyone bags on Simmons as much as they do. He isn't a good defender, but from what I can tell neither are the guys he's competing with. On the plus side, he seems to always know when to take a shot, and even has some junk in his game in order to get better looks.

Based on tonight's team performance of guys running around with no sense of spacing (especially in the 1st half) I think it'd do the Spurs well to have a thoughtful player like Simmons available.

I'd just like to take a look at Gee before handing the keys to Simmons. If Gee sucks, then you definitely have a point.

[SenorSpur]

I have to admit that I did rather enjoy seeing my first extensive look at CJ. Watching Hill masquerade as a shoot-first PG, while strictly looking for his offense is more that I can bear. I'd say CJ has the inside track over Temple at this point.

Still waiting to hear from Gee. He's got to make his presence known.

[Obstructed_View]

I am not really worried about the guard spot with TP/Hill/Manu.

I'm worried any time Hill's running the point.

[ElNono]

I'm worried any time Hill's running the point.

He's a SG. He should play SG.

[DesignatedT]

I still rather Hill play spot minutes at the backup 1 with Manu in the game than having Temple in there. just my opinion I guess.

[SenorSpur]

Maybe they want Gee to spend more time in Austin. I dont know

I believe you're right on there. Gee probably could use a year of D-League seasoning.

[SenorSpur]

Even though Simmons sucked for the most part, I did like the fact that Pop used him at SF, along with Anderson at SG. While matchups will dictate everything, as always, I could do without having to see Anderson having defend the Corey Maggettes, LeQuit James and Caron Butlers of the NBA.

[TD 21]

I understand the logic of having Simmons on the roster, it's just unfortunate that the Spurs don't really have any options..

Jefferson better make some fucking 3-pointers this season, it would negate having a guy like Simmons on the roster..

Given their lack of options, I don't see how anyone could not want him to make the team.

Not only does Simmons give the Spurs a second true SF and an established three-point shooter, but he can double as the sixth big. He's also far more experienced than Anderson, Neal, Temple and Gee put together.

Obstructed_View, the one scenario I could see them keeping Temple and Jerrells in, is if they cut Gee but decide to start the season with 14 anyway. I'd be surprised if this happened though.

[Obstructed_View]

I still rather Hill play spot minutes at the backup 1 with Manu in the game than having Temple in there. just my opinion I guess.

Yeah, it annoys me that Hill makes it nearly impossible to put Ginobili back into the starting lineup where he belongs, and his size makes it nearly useless to have Jerrells as the backup. Both of them can defend, but they just don't have the size unless the Spurs start really defending the rim with that front line.

[#2!]

I still rather Hill play spot minutes at the backup 1 with Manu in the game than having Temple in there. just my opinion I guess.

It's a good lineup with Hill and Manu, but a problem I had with last year's team is that Pop got so caught up in "this guy plays better with that guy" that the best group of 5 never really had time to gel. I want the 5 best guys on the team to be playing with each other throughout the season, lineups be damned.

If that means George has to sit at the end of games b/c the opposing SF is too big for Manu to defend then so be it.

[DPG21920]

Given their lack of options, I don't see how anyone could not want him to make the team.

Not only does Simmons give the Spurs a second true SF and an established three-point shooter, but he can double as the sixth big. He's also far more experienced than Anderson, Neal, Temple and Gee put together.

Because he sucks and I would rather have a player like Gee fill the void.

[ShoogarBear]

Face it. Untll Splitter starts getting time, this whole preseason is a waste.

[Obstructed_View]

Face it. Untll Splitter starts getting time, this whole preseason is a waste.

/thread

[MaNu4Tres]

Hill should see split minutes at both the point ( 13-18 mpg) and at the SG spot (13-18 mpg).



I don't understand how some people strictly only see him at the SG spot. He has only been the best back up point guard the Spurs have ever had. After all the years people cried and bitched about Carter, Hart, Beno, Vaughn, Stoudamire; people are now saying Hill can't play PG?

This Spurs offense and team doesn't need a prototypical point guard like Jason Kidd to run the show. That being said, Hill has done as good of a job as you can ask at the back up point guard position (Including the games he started at the SG spot).

[#2!]

Because he sucks and I would rather have a player like Gee fill the void.

Gee hasn't (been enabled to) shown us anything. I think its foolish for the spurs to pick up a guy over some one else simply b/c of potential. Could the Spurs be kicking themselves over letting a good defender in Gee walk?

Yes, but not for 3 or 4 seasons. Long arms and springy legs do not help the team more than a knowledgeable veteran. (don't confuse me for a Bogans fan though, I think Simmons can help more than Keith ever came close to doing).

[DPG21920]

I agree. While Hill is not a "true PG" and he is not ultra creative, he does more than adequate when called upon over the course of the season when it matters.

[Ditty]

I love how cj been playing lately but theres really no need of him on the team this year because he is a pure point guard who really can't run the offense

temple can run the point guard which he isn't great tbh but has the size to play the 2 also which I think should get more of his minutes at..I haven't given up on temple I think it's more injury and rust because dude was a beast last year

[MaNu4Tres]

Because he sucks and I would rather have a player like Gee fill the void.

I agree with this.


Simmons has been pretty damn bad and Harlem has been the one guy ( that I can think off the top of my head) that explained how bad of a player he is nowadays.

I still can't believe there was a point in time where he earned a 6 year 57 million dollar contract.

The way I see it, either Anderson or Gee steps up tremendously this season or R.C needs to make a trade for a multidimensional 5th wing of quality. If neither of those happen, Spurs will be fishing again in early May.

[Nathan89]

/thread

Everybody stop posting already the thread has ended.

[HarlemHeat37]

I don't have a problem with Hill playing PG off the bench either..

There aren't many teams that have a "reliable" PG as their 3rd guard, in regards to playmaking..

If Manu is injured and Hill has to play more of a playmaking role, then ya, but if Manu is injured, there are obviously bigger concerns..

The backcourt doesn't concern me at all from an offensive standpoint(Parker/Ginobili/Hill is about as good as you can find), and I'm feeling confident about the frontcourt too(assuming Bonner doesn't play too much, and Splitter at least lives up to some of the hype)..the main flaw with this team is the SF position, and perimeter defense in general..that's my only concern, other then injuries..

[DPG21920]

I don't have a problem with Hill playing PG off the bench either..

There aren't many teams that have a "reliable" PG as their 3rd guard, in regards to playmaking..

If Manu is injured and Hill has to play more of a playmaking role, then ya, but if Manu is injured, there are obviously bigger concerns..

The backcourt doesn't concern me at all from an offensive standpoint(Parker/Ginobili/Hill is about as good as you can find), and I'm feeling confident about the frontcourt too(assuming Bonner doesn't play too much, and Splitter at least lives up to some of the hype)..the main flaw with this team is the SF position, and perimeter defense in general..that's my only concern, other then injuries..

Exactly my sentiments. Spurs desperately need perimeter defense and 3 pt shooting from the wings.

[DPG21920]

I agree with this.


Simmons has been pretty damn bad and Harlem has been the one guy ( that I can think off the top of my head) that explained how bad of a player he is nowadays.

I still can't believe there was a point in time where he earned a 6 year 57 million dollar contract.

The way I see it, either Anderson or Gee steps up tremendously this season or R.C needs to make a trade for a multidimensional 5th wing of quality. If neither of those happen, Spurs will be fishing again in early May.

I have said for a while, that as things stand, the only solution I see is a trade. I don't see any other way around it.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Anderson can be our 3 point guy for sure. I shoot lights out with him on 2k11, which solidifies it.

[ShoogarBear]

Hill should see split minutes at both the point ( 13-18 mpg) and at the SG spot (13-18 mpg).



I don't understand how some people strictly only see him at the SG spot. He has only been the best back up point guard the Spurs have ever had. After all the years people cried and bitched about Carter, Hart, Beno, Vaughn, Stoudamire; people are now saying Hill can't play PG?

This Spurs offense and team doesn't need a prototypical point guard like Jason Kidd to run the show. That being said, Hill has done as good of a job as you can ask at the back up point guard position (Including the games he started at the SG spot).

Hill is a good player, and is not a liability handling the ball, but has never shown that he can use his skills to get other players shots or otherwise involved in the offense. He's in no way selfish, but his court vision makes Parker look like the second coming of Magic.

If you want to talk about doing the job of a point guard on offense, from your list Beno, Stoudamire and Vaughn were better at it than Hill.

Vaughn's problem was that he couldn't shoot for squat, and so the defense could sag off him with impunity. But he still knew how to run an offense.

Mighty Mouse was actually doing a very good job at point until Pop, in one of his "bench Bowen and let Kobe get loose" moments, insisted he stop passing and start jacking up shots from everywhere.

Beno was easily the best backup point guard the Spurs have had, but of course we all know Beno's problems were all between the ears.

Hell, Brent Barry was a better point guard than Hill. And if Speedy's half a season counts, him too.

Having said all that, finding a better point guard than Hill is definitely NOT a priority need for the Spurs.

[DesignatedT]

I do keep forgetting about Anderson. Hopefully this guy can take it over if Gee isn't the guy Pop is looking for.

[ElNono]

I don't understand how some people strictly only see him at the SG spot. He has only been the best back up point guard the Spurs have ever had. After all the years people cried and bitched about Carter, Hart, Beno, Vaughn, Stoudamire; people are now saying Hill can't play PG?

I'd just like players to play their natural positions. Ultimately, when both Manu and Hill are out there, 90% of the time Manu is actually playing PG, instead of SG, which is his comfort zone.
I don't disagree with you that Hill has been the best backup PG compared to the laundry list above, that doesn't mean he feels comfortable running the Spurs offense.


This Spurs offense and team doesn't need a prototypical point guard like Jason Kidd to run the show. That being said, Hill has done as good of a job as you can ask at the back up point guard position (Including the games he started at the SG spot).

I don't think we need a top of the line backup PG either. That doesn't mean that Hill wouldn't be more productive playing SG (what he played all his life), instead of PG.

[ElNono]

The way I see it, either Anderson or Gee steps up tremendously this season or R.C needs to make a trade for a multidimensional 5th wing of quality. If neither of those happen, Spurs will be fishing again in early May.

Who's available? lol, i kid... :toast

[MaNu4Tres]

Hill is a good player, and is not a liability handling the ball, but has never shown that he can use his skills to get other players shots or otherwise involved in the offense. He's in no way selfish, but his court vision makes Parker look like the second coming of Magic.

If you want to talk about doing the job of a point guard on offense, from your list Beno, Stoudamire and Vaughn were better at it than Hill.

Vaughn's problem was that he couldn't shoot for squat, and so the defense could sag off him with impunity. But he still knew how to run an offense.

Mighty Mouse was actually doing a very good job at point until Pop, in one of his "bench Bowen and let Kobe get loose" moments, insisted he stop passing and start jacking up shots from everywhere.

Beno was easily the best backup point guard the Spurs have had, but of course we all know Beno's problems were all between the ears.

Hell, Brent Barry was a better point guard than Hill. And if Speedy's half a season counts, him too.

Having said all that, finding a better point guard than Hill is definitely NOT a priority need for the Spurs.

Spurs have yet to need a " true (Jason Kidd-like)" back-up point guard since Manu and Tony have joined the team.

Spurs have had the luxury of having 3 very efficient ball-dominant creators/scorers for the past 8-9 years; where the back up point guards duties would be to mainly spot up on the perimeter ( while Tim has the ball in the post; while Manu/Parker has the ball in P&R's) and to also defend the opposing point guards (or whoever they match up better with --In Barry's case during the 05'-06' deep playoff runs).

That being said let me rephrase, Hill has been the most productive and most talented back up point guard the Spurs have ever had.

[DrSteffo]

Gist seems to be out to me.

[SenorSpur]

Hill is a good player, and is not a liability handling the ball, but has never shown that he can use his skills to get other players shots or otherwise involved in the offense. He's in no way selfish, but his court vision makes Parker look like the second coming of Magic.

Having said all that, finding a better point guard than Hill is definitely NOT a priority need for the Spurs.

That's the key point, right there. Hill is passable as a backup PG, but he simply does nothing to create offense for anyone other than himself. It's not his fault, he's been a natural SG for most of his life. It's pretty said that Blair is already a better passer than Hill.

[ShoogarBear]

Spurs have yet to need a " true (Jason Kidd-like)" back-up point guard since Manu and Tony have joined the team.

During Beno's best games, I would disagree. There was actually serious basketball discussion about the merits of trading Tony and making Beno the starter (and real talk, not the usual Tony-hating).



That being said let me rephrase, Hill has been the most productive and most talented back up point guard the Spurs have ever had.

I can probably agree with that statement.

However, just because the Spurs don't require much out of a backup point guard doesn't mean that Hill actually is a point guard.

[SenorSpur]

I like seeing players play their natural positions.

[Solid D]

Bonner.

So, truthfully, I'd have to say Gee or Cousin are about to be jettisoned.

Of the list in the poll, Neal and Jerrells are the most secure. Jerrells has done nothing but show Pop he can play pressure D, shoot when open, make shots when open, and bring lots of energy...enough to earn the 3rd PG slot.

[MaNu4Tres]

From a friend of mine,

"I love Hill, he's going to be a real player, but he's not a real necessity when it comes to size and skill-set. He's just a quality player, one it'd suck to lose, but not someone who couldn't be replaced or upgrade with a different but better fit."

*Referring to the possibility of Hill being traded for a better fit, if say Parker has another 08-09 season.*

I agree with him. Hill is a damn good player, but if Spurs could get a better fit at the 2/3 spot in a trade for him, I might just have to reluctantly pull the trigger. Manu has proved to have the ability to run the show when it matters (April-June; when Parker is resting) anyways.

[FilSpursFan]

Definitely its not Jerrels..

[TJastal]

Gist is a lost cause..he's a fan favorite, I like him too, but he's never going to find a niche in the NBA..he's stuck in a tough spot..he doesn't have the tools to play the 3, and he still hasn't figured out how to use his athleticism advantage against 4s..

Neal and Simmons haven't impressed me at all..I've been saying Simmons was done for months, he hasn't proven me wrong..they are both shooters though, and we know how much Pop and his system needs shooters, so I would be very surprised if they are both cut..Simmons is Bogans, with a slightly better 3-point shot and significantly worse on defense..

Temple is tough..he has looked absolutely horrible, but you also have to consider how he played during meaningful games last year..I was never high on him, but he definitely should get some credit for how he played last year..

CJ looks like he's finally getting it together..I would have him ahead of Temple at this point..

Gee is my favorite of the bunch, but he has barely gotten any PT during preseason..is it due to injury?..is he going to get cut without having a chance?..does he already have a spot?..tough to say..he's by far the closest thing the Spurs have to a potential wing defender though..

Letting Hairston go doesn't seem like such a great idea anymore.

[TJastal]

From a friend of mine,

"I love Hill, he's going to be a real player, but he's not a real necessity when it comes to size and skill-set. He's just a quality player, one it'd suck to lose, but not someone who couldn't be replaced or upgrade with a different but better fit."

*Referring to the possibility of Hill being traded for a better fit, if say Parker has another 08-09 season.*

I agree with him. Hill is a damn good player, but if Spurs could get a better fit at the 2/3 spot in a trade for him, I might just have to reluctantly pull the trigger. Manu has proved to have the ability to run the show when it matters (April-June; when Parker is resting) anyways.

I disagree. Hill is a special player with room to improve even more. Without his playoff heroics the spurs would have been kicked out in the 1st round by the mavs, again. Frankly, as a spurstalk member I'm thankful for this. We'd would've never heard the end of it.

[Chomag]

Is Pop allready trying to play his mind games with Gee? Break him down to build him up I guess?

I don't get it.