4 opinions

[2centsworth]

In no particular order.

1. A reduction in the capital gains tax(on stock) is solely a tax cut for the rich and has almost nothing to do with helping the economy.

2. Tax cuts don't always mean Revenue Reduction.

3. Minorities need access to capital. A TAX Incentive for rich people(accredited investors) to directly invest in Minority owned businesses would do wonders. My idea, allow accredited investors to make $25,000 tax deductible loans to minority owned businesses.

4. We can eliminate Defense Spending and still have a budgetary problem. Medicare is eating us alive. When people think of Welfare baby, they need to stop picturing minority families on food stamps. White Elderly People are the Elephant in the room.

[TheSullyMonster]

3. Minorities need access to capital. A TAX Incentive for rich people(accredited investors) to directly invest in Minority owned businesses would do wonders. My idea, allow accredited investors to make $25,000 tax deductible loans to minority owned businesses.


This always amuses me because I'm Whitey O'Whitey, but technically a minority.:toast

[101A]

In no particular order.

1. A reduction in the capital gains tax(on stock) is solely a tax cut for the rich and has almost nothing to do with helping the economy.

I pretty much agree with this. As a small business owner - the ONLY thing the capital gains rate does is affect how I take my income; as W-2 or as a dividend (which is capital gains, PLUS the corporation can't deduct it).


2. Tax cuts don't always mean Revenue Reduction.


3. Minorities need access to capital. A TAX Incentive for rich people(accredited investors) to directly invest in Minority owned businesses would do wonders. My idea, allow accredited investors to make $25,000 tax deductible loans to minority owned businesses.

The govt. is incapable of policing "minority owned". Look at the govt. contracting business for example. Also, seems like a violation of the Constitution; although I'm sure the courts wouldn't see it that way. Also, too many rich people with too much money to shelter; NO WAY you could keep any such scheme from actually achieving its purpose; it would be worked and bastardized.


4. We can eliminate Defense Spending and still have a budgetary problem. Medicare is eating us alive. When people think of Welfare baby, they need to stop picturing minority families on food stamps. White Elderly People are the Elephant in the room.

True that.

[boutons_deux]

"Medicare is eating us alive"

1) Americans inflict themselves with disease. All Freedom, No Responsibility. But don't ever dare ask Americans to eat responsibly, take care of themselves, quit eating too much, and quit eating coporate shit. $200B/year in obesity costs alone. And that ain't genetic, it's good ol' "Christian" gluttony (eg, morbidly obese "Christian" John Hagee).

2) Medicare is paying what the health care providers bill, and the providers still complain that Medicare/Medicaid doesn't pay enough for the docs to live their luxurious life-styles, even after ordering all kinds of useless tests to run up the bill. The real target is not the govt, but the super high cost American health care, because coverage and outcomes are are not better, and often worse than national/universal health care in other industrial countries.

[2centsworth]

This always amuses me because I'm Whitey O'Whitey, but technically a minority.:toast

Great, start a business and hire other Whitey O'Whitey minorities.

[CosmicCowboy]

In no particular order.

1. A reduction in the capital gains tax(on stock) is solely a tax cut for the rich and has almost nothing to do with helping the economy.

Strongly disagree. Raising the capital gains tax raises the cost of capital across the board for anyone that needs to borrow money. For the average person their home is their biggest asset. Any profit they make on it when they eventually sell it is a capital gain and will be taxed at the prevailing rate

2. Tax cuts don't always mean Revenue Reduction.

conditionally agree if combined with a growing economy

3. Minorities need access to capital. A TAX Incentive for rich people(accredited investors) to directly invest in Minority owned businesses would do wonders. My idea, allow accredited investors to make $25,000 tax deductible loans to minority owned businesses.

stupid idea. 1) Minorities are not discriminated against in business loans. In fact, Banks aggressively look for legitimate lending opportunities in the minority communities because of existing Federal lending guidelines. 2) If minority loans were a big deal then set up a Federal business loan program where the Feds guarantee bank loans with the borrowers permission. Default on your loan and the Feds pay the bank off and then the IRS collects from you

4. We can eliminate Defense Spending and still have a budgetary problem. Medicare is eating us alive. When people think of Welfare baby, they need to stop picturing minority families on food stamps. White Elderly People are the Elephant in the room.

Just WHITE old people? Dumbass. BTW, those "old people" have paid into the medicare "trust fund" all their lives..*checking my statement* As an example, I'm only 55 and have already paid in over $100,000 to Medicare alone. Too bad the motherfuckers in Washington already spent my $100,000 on other shit

[2centsworth]

"Medicare is eating us alive"

1) All Freedom, No Responsibility.

I like All Freedom with Consequences for bad behavior. The No Responsibility of the individual is that part I argue with all the time.




2) Medicare is paying what the health care providers bill, and the providers still complain that Medicare/Medicaid doesn't pay enough for the docs to live their luxurious life-styles. The real target is not the govt, but the super high cost American health care, because coverage and outcomes are are not better, and often worse than national/universal health care in other industrial countries.

American Health Care is much more technologically advanced than other national/universal health care programs. The doctors I've talked to argue the technology adds little to no value in a lot of cases, but does increase the cost. I couldn't tell you, because it's beyond me.

What I do know is too many people want something for nothing. We need to increase the skin in the game.

[coyotes_geek]

In no particular order.

1. A reduction in the capital gains tax(on stock) is solely a tax cut for the rich and has almost nothing to do with helping the economy.

Agreed. Bumping the cap gains tax rates to more closely match the ordinary income tax rates should happen. Maybe not so much at the lower brackets, but definitely up top.


2. Tax cuts don't always mean Revenue Reduction.

Agreed.


3. Minorities need access to capital. A TAX Incentive for rich people(accredited investors) to directly invest in Minority owned businesses would do wonders. My idea, allow accredited investors to make $25,000 tax deductible loans to minority owned businesses.

Not a fan of racially targeted tax breaks.


4. We can eliminate Defense Spending and still have a budgetary problem. Medicare is eating us alive. When people think of Welfare baby, they need to stop picturing minority families on food stamps. White Elderly People are the Elephant in the room.

Agreed. Medicare & SS pose the largest threats to our financial security.

[angrydude]

Tax cuts of any stripe without reductions in spending do not help the economy as a whole.
Investments that don't help businesses accumulate capital don't either.

[TheSullyMonster]

Great, start a business and hire other Whitey O'Whitey minorities.

Thinking of using minority opportunity funds to monetize some hobbies, and found others actually.:lol

[2centsworth]

3. Minorities need access to capital. A TAX Incentive for rich people(accredited investors) to directly invest in Minority owned businesses would do wonders. My idea, allow accredited investors to make $25,000 tax deductible loans to minority owned businesses.

stupid idea. 1) Minorities are not discriminated against in business loans. In fact, Banks aggressively look for legitimate lending opportunities in the minority communities because of existing Federal lending guidelines. 2) If minority loans were a big deal then set up a Federal business loan program where the Feds guarantee bank loans with the borrowers permission. Default on your loan and the Feds pay the bank off and then the IRS collects from you

So more Federal Programs. I thought you were a conservative? Accredited Investors know much more than the federal government. Hence, making underwriting more appropriate for each individual situation. Get the Government out of the way.





4. We can eliminate Defense Spending and still have a budgetary problem. Medicare is eating us alive. When people think of Welfare baby, they need to stop picturing minority families on food stamps. White Elderly People are the Elephant in the room.

Just WHITE old people? Dumbass. BTW, those "old people" have paid into the medicare "trust fund" all their lives..*checking my statement* As an example, I'm only 55 and have already paid in over $100,000 to Medicare alone. Too bad the motherfuckers in Washington already spent my $100,000 on other shit

so of the 1.45% you pay a year in Medicare, you have paid $100,000 at 55. So you have made almost $7,000,000 since the age of 30. About $275,000 per year. No bad, you've almost paid in what you will take out. You need about 20 more working years.

[2centsworth]

Not a fan of racially targeted tax breaks.




biggest hurdle, but I'll explain why it makes sense later. Be back in an hour or so.

[fyatuk]

Medicare is paying what the health care providers bill, and the providers still complain that Medicare/Medicaid doesn't pay enough...

Just to point out, Medicare pays what health care providers bill it for because health care providers arent' allowed to bill it for anything else. I'm not a doctor, so it's not like I can give a comparison regarding cost vs payout, just wanted to be clear that Medicare is very restricted in what Dr.s are allowed to bill it for and what the payouts will be.

It's not like the Drs are billing their normal prices and Medicare is paying them. Every year Drs write off a large amount of money between what they normally charge and what Medicare pays.

[2centsworth]

The govt. is incapable of policing "minority owned". Look at the govt. contracting business for example. Also, seems like a violation of the Constitution; although I'm sure the courts wouldn't see it that way. Also, too many rich people with too much money to shelter; NO WAY you could keep any such scheme from actually achieving its purpose; it would be worked and bastardized.





Very powerful word is "AUDIT". The mere fact it's a red flag issue should police it IMO.

[CubanMustGo]

[/B]so of the 1.45% you pay a year in Medicare, you have paid $100,000 at 55. So you have made almost $7,000,000 since the age of 30. About $275,000 per year. No bad, you've almost paid in what you will take out. You need about 20 more working years.

If he's self-employed, then he's paying 2.9%, not 1.45%.

[RandomGuy]

In no particular order.

1. A reduction in the capital gains tax(on stock) is solely a tax cut for the rich and has almost nothing to do with helping the economy.

2. Tax cuts don't always mean Revenue Reduction.

3. Minorities need access to capital. A TAX Incentive for rich people(accredited investors) to directly invest in Minority owned businesses would do wonders. My idea, allow accredited investors to make $25,000 tax deductible loans to minority owned businesses.

4. We can eliminate Defense Spending and still have a budgetary problem. Medicare is eating us alive. When people think of Welfare baby, they need to stop picturing minority families on food stamps. White Elderly People are the Elephant in the room.

I would mostly agree.

I do think we need to bite the bullet and just get a single payor system. We need more socialism, not less, simply because health insurance is one area where capitalism doesn't work well due to our own laws.

You know, those laws that require hospitals to take anybody in their emergency rooms, regardless of their ability to pay or not.

I think we have two choices in the long run:
1) Decide we are comfortable with letting people who can't pay literally die on the steps of hospitals
or
2) Realize that this begins a cycle of highly inefficient cost-shifting

It is a bit more complicated than that, of course, but one other thing I think a single payor system will do is to reduce the administrative costs associated with health care providers having to file bazillions of different forms with bazillions of different insurance companies who have bazzillions of different policies.

[RandomGuy]

Medicare & SS pose the largest threats to our financial security.

Our aging population poses the largest threat to our financial security, followed closely behind by our over-dependence on fossil fuels.

Medicare/SS are simply convenient whipping-boys. Get rid of them if you want, but the problems will not go away.

How then do you deal with an aging population who would not, or for that matter could not, save the required amount of money to retire, when they are literally too old to work?

Forced euthanasia? What is the free-market solution for poor, sick old people? Anyone?

[CosmicCowboy]

If he's self-employed, then he's paying 2.9%, not 1.45%.

The sad part is he doesn't realize that he's paying 2.9% too. That other 1.45% he "forgot" about is his compensation that his employer deducted and paid before he wrote the paycheck he saw that took out the next 1.45%.

[2centsworth]

The sad part is he doesn't realize that he's paying 2.9% too. That other 1.45% he "forgot" about is his compensation that his employer deducted and paid before he wrote the paycheck he saw that took out the next 1.45%.

No, I didn't give you credit for being a business owner. If so, you paid about 2.4% after-tax.

Still waiting for why you are advocating bigger government?

[2centsworth]

Our aging population poses the largest threat to our financial security, followed closely behind by our over-dependence on fossil fuels.

Medicare/SS are simply convenient whipping-boys. Get rid of them if you want, but the problems will not go away.

How then do you deal with an aging population who would not, or for that matter could not, save the required amount of money to retire, when they are literally too old to work?

Forced euthanasia? What is the free-market solution for poor, sick old people? Anyone?


Our country is built on taking care of our elderly and poor. Problem is that we do it inefficiently. I'm in agreement on a one payer system if we do it in the form of an annual Tax Credit that pays for government mandated minimum coverage from private insurer. People who want additional coverage can pay for it on their own.

[clambake]

The sad part is he doesn't realize that he's paying 2.9% too. That other 1.45% he "forgot" about is his compensation that his employer deducted and paid before he wrote the paycheck he saw that took out the next 1.45%.

why don't you drop the healthcare and give your employees the option?

thats what i'm considering. right now, not including my family, i'm paying 17k a month.

[RandomGuy]

The sad part is he doesn't realize that he's paying 2.9% too. That other 1.45% he "forgot" about is his compensation that his employer deducted and paid before he wrote the paycheck he saw that took out the next 1.45%.

Bingo. Most tend to forget that, so it is a widely repeated mistake.

[CosmicCowboy]

No, I didn't give you credit for being a business owner. If so, you paid about 2.4% after-tax.

Still waiting for why you are advocating bigger government?

First, you have the numbers wrong.

It's a sleight of hand to make you think you pay less.

Before your employer writes your check he pays 6.2% of that number for SS and 1.45% for medicare. Then he writes the check to you and deducts another 6.2% for SS and another 1.45% for medicare.

If your check for the month says you made $3000 less taxes you employer REALLY paid you an additional $230 that month that he just deducted for your taxes before he wrote the check.

Your cost to him as an employer was $3230. for that month, not counting other taxes and expenses like unemployment insurance, workmans comp, etc.

And what makes you say I'm for bigger government? Because I preferred a loan guarantee backed up by the IRS hammer over tax credits you never get back?

I feel the same way about student loans. Hell, yeah, lets give government guarantees for student loans. Then, if they try to default then turn it over to the IRS and garnish their paychecks forever till the loans are paid off.

[clambake]

not to mention the anxiety i get with every piece of literature that comes from blue cross.

[RandomGuy]

Our country is built on taking care of our elderly and poor. Problem is that we do it inefficiently. I'm in agreement on a one payer system if we do it in the form of an annual Tax Credit that pays for government mandated minimum coverage from private insurer. People who want additional coverage can pay for it on their own.

Private insurers cost far more in terms of overhead than Medicare does to do the exact same job.

Forcing everybody onto the rolls of private insurers simply will make insurance cost far more to society as a whole than it would otherwise.

[RandomGuy]

It is beer time for me and my conservative liberatarian friends. Yes, I have them in RL.

I am the token liberal guy. :lol

On more than one occasion we end up by saying, quite literally "fuck you, you're wrong, see you next week, man."

See y'all later.

[CosmicCowboy]

why don't you drop the healthcare and give your employees the option?

thats what i'm considering. right now, not including my family, i'm paying 17k a month.

I'm always looking at my options. I'm pretty sure they are gonna have to start paying a percentage for family coverage.

[CosmicCowboy]

Private insurers cost far more in terms of overhead than Medicare does to do the exact same job.


and you KNOW this how?

[2centsworth]

First, you have the numbers wrong.

It's a sleight of hand to make you think you pay less.

Before your employer writes your check he pays 6.2% of that number for SS and 1.45% for medicare. Then he writes the check to you and deducts another 6.2% for SS and another 1.45% for medicare.

If your check for the month says you made $3000 less taxes you employer REALLY paid you an additional $230 that month that he just deducted for your taxes before he wrote the check.

Your cost to him as an employer was $3230. for that month, not counting other taxes and expenses like unemployment insurance, workmans comp, etc.

And what makes you say I'm for bigger government? Because I preferred a loan guarantee backed up by the IRS hammer over tax credits you never get back?

I feel the same way about student loans. Hell, yeah, lets give government guarantees for student loans. Then, if they try to default then turn it over to the IRS and garnish their paychecks forever till the loans are paid off.

One thing at a time:

We were talking about you and the amount of Medicare you say you paid in. You as a self-employed individual paid about 2.4% after-tax for medicare. That amounts to $168k/yr, which I point out so you can check your math.

Lastly, accredited investors don't need the government to be their bill collectors.

[clambake]

several docs put a limit on the amount of medicare patients they'll accept.

so, not quite the exact same job, rg.

[CosmicCowboy]

One thing at a time:

We were talking about you and the amount of Medicare you say you paid in. You as a self-employed individual paid about 2.4% after-tax for medicare. That amounts to $168k/yr, which I point out so you can check your math.

Lastly, accredited investors don't need the government to be their bill collectors.

I own a C corporation that pays me a salary. I know the math.

[2centsworth]

I own a C corporation that pays me a salary. I know the math.

then what is your expected annual benefit from Medicare when you retire?

I'll help you, per the Medicare Trustees Report over $20,000 per year. Since you are scheduled to contribute another $45,000 or so, if you don't die by age 73 you then become another welfare baby.

On average, current retires receive over $100,000 more than they have paid in.


I point this out, not because I don't want to take care of our seniors, but to correct the misconception that the entitlement problems are because of immigrants and minorities. It's Medicare Stupid (not calling you stupid)

[CosmicCowboy]

then what is your expected annual benefit from Medicare when you retire?

I'll help you, per the Medicare Trustees Report over $20,000 per year. Since you are scheduled to contribute another $45,000 or so, if you don't die by age 73 you then become another welfare baby.

On average, current retires receive over $100,000 more than they have paid in.


I point this out, not because I don't want to take care of our seniors, but to correct the misconception that the entitlement problems are because of immigrants and minorities. It's Medicare Stupid (not calling you stupid)

I have said all along the problem is that medical care is too good and too expensive. Health care will have to be rationed. The only question is whether it will be rationed by ability to pay or rationed by a government panel who decides who gets it and who doesn't. Obama was dead serious when he said grandma may have to take an aspirin and go home instead of being treated.

[boutons_deux]

"current retires receive over $100,000 more than they have paid in"

I'm pretty sure they paid more into employer group plans on average than they claimed.

If those payments went into a universal public option instead of for-profit insurers, the country would be in much better shape fiscally, but still a country over self-inflicted diseased fat asses.

[2centsworth]

I have said all along the problem is that medical care is too good and too expensive. Health care will have to be rationed. The only question is whether it will be rationed by ability to pay or rationed by a government panel who decides who gets it and who doesn't. Obama was dead serious when he said grandma may have to take an aspirin and go home instead of being treated.

Per a conversation I had with a Doctor, 80% of the medicare expense is during the last 6 months of life.

Maybe grandma needs to take one for the team.:lol

[coyotes_geek]

Our aging population poses the largest threat to our financial security, followed closely behind by our over-dependence on fossil fuels.

Medicare/SS are simply convenient whipping-boys. Get rid of them if you want, but the problems will not go away.

Medicare & SS aren't "simply convienent whipping-boys". You acknowledged as much when you posted this in another thread:


http://www.federalbudget.com/chart.gif

There are only about 4 places in the federal budget that you could cut to where it would make a difference.

There is no way to bring the federal debt/defecit situation without making drastic cuts in SS&M.


How then do you deal with an aging population who would not, or for that matter could not, save the required amount of money to retire, when they are literally too old to work?

Forced euthanasia? What is the free-market solution for poor, sick old people? Anyone?

Lots of people are going to get screwed. Millions and millions of seniors are destined to die in poverty. It sucks, but it's inevitable. The decline in the American standard of living is assured. The only alternative is continuation down an unsustainable path ending in complete financial collapse.

[FuzzyLumpkins]

Just to point out, Medicare pays what health care providers bill it for because health care providers arent' allowed to bill it for anything else. I'm not a doctor, so it's not like I can give a comparison regarding cost vs payout, just wanted to be clear that Medicare is very restricted in what Dr.s are allowed to bill it for and what the payouts will be.

It's not like the Drs are billing their normal prices and Medicare is paying them. Every year Drs write off a large amount of money between what they normally charge and what Medicare pays.

Its not compulsory for doctors to accept medicare/aid yet they still do.

[Winehole23]

Private insurers cost far more in terms of overhead than Medicare does to do the exact same job.

Forcing everybody onto the rolls of private insurers simply will make insurance cost far more to society as a whole than it would otherwise.It sounds like another version of the healthcare reform we have right now, sure, but the tax credit is a different sort of incentive than a fine for noncompliance.

2cents didn't give us very much info about that. But I'll readily admit to having no handy information about the incentives built in to the healthcare reform recently passed.

[Winehole23]

(is a bit out of his depth in this thread)

[CosmicCowboy]

There is no way to bring the federal debt/defecit situation without making drastic cuts in SS&M.



Lots of people are going to get screwed. Millions and millions of seniors are destined to die in poverty. It sucks, but it's inevitable. The decline in the American standard of living is assured. The only alternative is continuation down an unsustainable path ending in complete financial collapse.

I agree that in our new dumbed down democracy there is no way that the USA can halt it's decline. It's not just old people. You young guys are fucked too. Hell, It's your fault too...you just don't realize it yet. My generation has raised a generation of wimps that were told they were special when they weren't. It wasn't about winning, it was about being on the team. The truth is about to hit home. being a mediocre non-achiever means you are fucked.

[fyatuk]

Its not compulsory for doctors to accept medicare/aid yet they still do.

Not for long...

http://www.texastribune.org/texas-health-resources/health-reform-and-texas/texas-doctors-drop-medicaid-and-medicare-patients/

http://www.nydailynews.com/money/2010/10/04/2010-10-04_more_new_york_doctors_shun_low_reimbursement_ra tes_drop_medicare_patients_left_f.html

Etc.

And with huge cuts in reimbursement rates planned for Medicare, we'll see more of this I'd bet.

You can't expect people who pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for education to accept losing money in their profession....

[ElNono]

In no particular order.

1. A reduction in the capital gains tax(on stock) is solely a tax cut for the rich and has almost nothing to do with helping the economy.

Agree


2. Tax cuts don't always mean Revenue Reduction.

Disagree.


3. Minorities need access to capital. A TAX Incentive for rich people(accredited investors) to directly invest in Minority owned businesses would do wonders. My idea, allow accredited investors to make $25,000 tax deductible loans to minority owned businesses.

Not a fan of this idea.


4. We can eliminate Defense Spending and still have a budgetary problem. Medicare is eating us alive. When people think of Welfare baby, they need to stop picturing minority families on food stamps. White Elderly People are the Elephant in the room.

Debatable at many levels. We like to simply use the monolithic label, such as Medicare, but once you start breaking down that mammoth into pieces, there's individual items that could be addressed without having to necessarily throw all of it away. The problem is that there's no political will to do that in an orderly and sincere manner.

[ElNono]

You can't expect people who pay hundreds of thousands of dollars for education to accept losing money in their profession....

Maybe this is part of the problem, not the solution...

[RandomGuy]

Medicare & SS aren't "simply convienent whipping-boys". You acknowledged as much when you posted this in another thread:

(federal budget graphic)

There is no way to bring the federal debt/defecit situation without making drastic cuts in SS&M.


Lots of people are going to get screwed. Millions and millions of seniors are destined to die in poverty. It sucks, but it's inevitable. The decline in the American standard of living is assured. The only alternative is continuation down an unsustainable path ending in complete financial collapse.

Given that wealth distribution in this country is hyper-concentrated in the upper deciles, that "millions of seniors are destined to die in poverty", what does that say about the way we think materialistically?

Raising taxes on the "haves" is not the death knell of the country, far from it.

That the wealthy have suckered so many tea-baggers into thinking it is, does make for a depressing realization.

There are two kinds of Republicans, millionaires and suckers.

The suckers are the ones who have the delusion that someday they may be wealthy, so they support all sorts of things that are directly incimal to their own interests.

I disagree that the US has to go into decline. I think we will probably go sideways for a while, until the 2-3bn people in China/India start catching up a bit, and Africa finally starts jumping on that bandwagon.

[2centsworth]

(is a bit out of his depth in this thread)

Required Reading IMO. Universal Health Care Solution without the inefficiencies of government.

http://www.robert-h-frank.com/PDFs/Emanuel-Fuchs.NEJM.3-24-05.pdf

[fyatuk]

Maybe this is part of the problem, not the solution...

One of the reasons I was opposed to health care reform is it didn't address many of the cost issues. There's needs to be more grants for medical training (both doctors and nurses) as well as decent lone forgiveness programs for doctors who donate time/services, etc. Reduce the cost of creating doctors and you reduce the cost of medicine in general.

[101A]

One of the reasons I was opposed to health care reform is it didn't address many of the cost issues. There's needs to be more grants for medical training (both doctors and nurses) as well as decent lone forgiveness programs for doctors who donate time/services, etc. Reduce the cost of creating doctors and you reduce the cost of medicine in general.


It addressed NONE of the cost issues.

Doctors don't charge what they NEED to charge; they charge what the market will bear; the market (since it is insurance companies and/or government) has VERY deep pockets, so it can bear quite a bit. Return much of the market to a more limited pocket book, and prices will drop. Otherwise, they won't.

[2centsworth]

Originally Posted by 2centsworth http://spurstalk.com/forums/images/Style_Templates/DefaultStyle/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://spurstalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=4674785#post4674785)
2. Tax cuts don't always mean Revenue Reduction.










ELNONO: Disagree.Allow me to give you an example.

For instance, we allow a Wealthy Individual a $25,000 tax deduction for investing in another persons small business.

That small business person then invests that $25,000 in a product that can be sold for 4 times the cost. That is a $100,000 increase in Sales. Not only will local municipalities benefit from the sales taxes collected, but the small business man will pay income taxes on profit and most likely will hire someone who will also pay income taxes and add to the productivity of the business.

In this case, we took $25,000 of idle got it moving in the system.









.

[CosmicCowboy]

Allow me to give you an example.

For instance, we allow a Wealthy Individual a $25,000 tax deduction for investing in another persons small business.

That small business person then invests that $25,000 in a product that can be sold for 4 times the cost. That is a $100,000 increase in Sales. Not only will local municipalities benefit from the sales taxes collected, but the small business man will pay income taxes on profit and most likely will hire someone who will also pay income taxes and add to the productivity of the business.

In this case, we took $25,000 of idle got it moving in the system.

You want to make loaning money to drug dealers tax deductible? :lol

Seriously, your idea sucks.

[RandomGuy]

Per a conversation I had with a Doctor, 80% of the medicare expense is during the last 6 months of life.


That bears out with the studies done that I have seen, yes.

That is why they are paying serious attention to the counties in the US that have requirements that everybody receive end-of-life counseling.

A simple DNR and clearly outlining your wishes and who should be responsible for making decisions, means that these counties have VERY low expenditures on health care.

[2centsworth]

You want to make loaning money to drug dealers tax deductible? :lol

Seriously, your idea sucks.

seriously, you're dumb as a doornail. Are you sure you're 55 yrs old? bring a little more to the table than drug dealers.

[CosmicCowboy]

seriously, you're dumb as a doornail. Are you sure you're 55 yrs old? bring a little more to the table than drug dealers.

Get a sense of humor dude...

Seriously,

Bring me a legal business with a 400% profit margin and we'll talk.

[2centsworth]

Get a sense of humor dude...

Seriously,

Bring me a legal business with a 400% profit margin and we'll talk.

Ton of start ups that are able to produce 400% Asset Growth. Profit Margin is something separate. How much did it take to start Facebook?

Lots of Minorities with brilliant ideas, but would struggle to scrape $10,000 together. We need to encourage capital formation in those communities without the bureaucracy of the banks and SBA.

Accredited Investors have the skill to pick the winners from the litter. Lets give them an incentive to hunt.

[clambake]

"hello, mr.taxman......don't forget my 25k tax deduction i get for giving a guy to start a business."

"i'm sorry.....did you just say audit?"

[CosmicCowboy]

Ton of start ups that are able to produce 400% Asset Growth. Profit Margin is something separate. How much did it take to start Facebook?

Lots of Minorities with brilliant ideas, but would struggle to scrape $10,000 together. We need to encourage capital formation in those communities without the bureaucracy of the banks and SBA.

Accredited Investors have the skill to pick the winners from the litter. Lets give them an incentive to hunt.

Like I said. Bring me a business with a 400% return on investment and we will talk.

Tens of thousands of well intentioned credits/deduction like yours are what has gotten out tax code so incredibly fucked up.

[Drachen]

You want to make loaning money to drug dealers tax deductible? :lol

Seriously, your idea sucks.

I don't think the idea is without merit but maybe use a more realistic profit margin than 4.0

[Wild Cobra]

Let me start by saying this. I haven't yet read any of the 55 responses to this thread yet.


In no particular order.

1. A reduction in the capital gains tax(on stock) is solely a tax cut for the rich and has almost nothing to do with helping the economy.

I disagree. Sure, more rich people invest, but many middle classed Americans have investments that are paid through capital gains. Even houses. if you boy a house and then sell it with a profit, you have a capital gain. What's really bad about this is that the gain is not indexed to inflation, that is unless they changed the tax laws regarding this.


2. Tax cuts don't always mean Revenue Reduction.

I absolutely agree. Less money paid in taxes mean more spending power of the individual, family, etc. This makes for a better economy, and then more tax payers. The difficult part is determining where the sweet spot is.


3. Minorities need access to capital. A TAX Incentive for rich people(accredited investors) to directly invest in Minority owned businesses would do wonders. My idea, allow accredited investors to make $25,000 tax deductible loans to minority owned businesses.

Loans have traditionally been based on risk. It has nothing to do with skin color. How would you make such a tax break? What good is a tax break to reduce taxable money by $25,000 is that $25,000 is completely lost?

Wouldn't it be racist and unfair for the whites who have poor credit?


4. We can eliminate Defense Spending and still have a budgetary problem. Medicare is eating us alive. When people think of Welfare baby, they need to stop picturing minority families on food stamps. White Elderly People are the Elephant in the room.

Yes, but most of us would agree we can take care of the elderly. Why should we take care of those who lack responsibility?

[2centsworth]

"hello, mr.taxman......don't forget my 25k tax deduction i get for giving a guy to start a business."

"i'm sorry.....did you just say audit?"

talk about self-regulating. The fear alone would keep most of it legit IMO.

[2centsworth]

Like I said. Bring me a business with a 400% return on investment and we will talk.

Tens of thousands of well intentioned credits/deduction like yours are what has gotten out tax code so incredibly fucked up.

Every successful business in America. Btw, the investor gets a tax deduction and interest on the loan.

[CosmicCowboy]

Every successful business in America. Btw, the investor gets a tax deduction and interest on the loan.

Like I said previously, if you have a legal legitimate business plan that nets a 400% annual return then bring it to me and we will talk. I don't need no stinkin tax deduction to partner on something like that.

[RandomGuy]

Like I said previously, if you have a legal legitimate business plan that nets a 400% annual return then bring it to me and we will talk. I don't need no stinkin tax deduction to partner on something like that.

+1

I think the best way to do that is to write a book about "how to make money in the stock market". Copy, paste, publish. Some sucker will buy 'em out.

Just need to change up the wording and make people who buy the book feel like they are in on some big secret.