spurs have a top 5 all-star shooting guard

[violentkitten]

just thought i'd point that out. i had to pinch myself when i was sitting in the litterbox today.

r.i.p. vinny del negro

[Mark in Austin]

vinnie did have shorter hair though. yeah, shorter...less hairballs.


Seriously. Now here comes the heresey:

Is Ginobili's all-around game and clutch play more valuable to a team than Gervin's scoring brilliance?

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Well considering Ginobili already has a ring, I'd say yes.

Scoring is great, but the ring is the thing.

[E20]

Take away Duncan and Ginobili has nothing. Don't mean to be a hard ass.

[E20]

I don't think the Argentine national team would win a ring in the NBA.

[Tek_XX]

i don't know, he did good against supposed great NBA talent.

woah, Vinny Del Negro that takes me back

[danyel]

I don't think the Argentine national team would win a ring in the NBA.

If Washington got the to 2nd round, I'd say they at least make the playoffs...

[mrpach]

u dont think a team with duncan, iverson, lebron, etc etc could win a ring???

[E20]

Making the playoffs? I agree with with that but, when people start comparing Ginobili to Gervin it's pretty.......not very comparable. Ginobili is a stud, El equipo de Basqetbol de Argentina son montantes.

[Brutalis]

I think he did alright without Duncan this past summer.
That was ownage. Nice.

[Brutalis]

u dont think a team with duncan, iverson, lebron, etc etc could win a ring???
They cant even co-exsist on the same team dude. :drunk

[BadlyDrawnBoy]

Most of Manu's big games came when he was getting most of the plays called for him.

When it was either Tim not playing due to injury or because Tim was off and Manu was hot.

He does well with and without Tim.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Take away Duncan and Ginobili has nothing. Don't mean to be a hard ass.

Don't mean to be a hard ass, but in his trophy case Manu has:

NBA Championship
Gold Medal
World Championship

Two of the three of those he won without a Tim Duncan on his team.

And considering they owned Team USA twice, I'd have to say that they would make the playoffs and would probably find their way to the Finals.

Yeah, Gervin was a great scorer, but the league has a lot of those. I think Gervin was an awesome player, but you can keep your scoring titles, I'll take NBA titles, thank you.

[danyel]

He doesn't have a World Championship, he does have an Euroleague title and finals MVP though.

[stéphane]

Don't mean to be a hard ass, but in his trophy case Manu has:

NBA Championship
Gold Medal
World Championship

Two of the three of those he won without a Tim Duncan on his team.

And considering they owned Team USA twice, I'd have to say that they would make the playoffs and would probably find their way to the Finals.

Yeah, Gervin was a great scorer, but the league has a lot of those. I think Gervin was an awesome player, but you can keep your scoring titles, I'll take NBA titles, thank you.

100% agree on that one.
I think that the difference is the dedication and the commitment of the argentine players to their jersey and national flag. They were playing with all their heart wanting the argentine to be proud of Argentina. That's what makes a team when you would "jump under a bus" for a teammate. That makes the difference. I have a lot of respect for what the Argentina bball team made.

[E20]

Aggie you were talking about the NBA ring on your first post and with that you said 'the ring's the thing' which was more valueable than Gervins scoring. Sure a ring is better than a scoring title but, it sounds like that everybody is giving the credit for Manu winning the ring single handley. If a 26 year old Gervin were on the Spurs instead of Manu we would have won lots of rings. I don't know how the talks of an NBA ring stirred up international ball and everybody is talking about the defeat on the pathetic dream team of last summers olympics.


Don't mean to be a hard ass, but in his trophy case Manu has:
NBA title
Gold Medal
World Championship


WTF is a world championship?
A NBA title or a gold medal from the olympics?

[ALVAREZ6]

Take away Duncan and Ginobili has nothing. Don't mean to be a hard ass.
Then what about those great play-off performances coming off the bench? Playing w/o Tim on the court...

[E20]

A6 we're not talking about playoff performence or anything like that. Everyboyd knows Manu can play. It's a ring we're talking about.

[ALVAREZ6]

A6 we're not talking about playoff performence or anything like that. Everyboyd knows Manu can play. It's a ring we're talking about.
Well in that case, there's not a single player in the world that can win an NBA ring by themselves. You said take away duncan and manu is nothing...and if you mean nothing as in he can't win a ring by himself, well neither can AI, Lebron, T-Mac, Kobe, etc.

[E20]

But, when it gets to the point where

Manu > Gervin
because of a ring which he contributed less than 25% to get that is when it get's absurd.

[smeagol]

Take away Duncan and Ginobili has nothing. Don't mean to be a hard ass.
E20:

Does this mean Manu wouldn't have won ring if it wasn't for Tim?

Or does it mean he is nothing if he does not play with TD?

If your statement answers the first question, then you have a point. I don't think the 03 Spurs team wins the title without TD.

If it answers the second question, then I can't really explain you handle and your sig.

[mookie2001]

ginobili is a modern day iceman

but then again hedo was a poor mans dirk

ginobili plays alot like pistol pete
from what ive seen of pete
not the movie

[E20]

OK, I'm a BIG Manu fan but, I'm also a realist and don't think it's the San Antonio Manu's. What I am saying is that the 03 Spurs would not have won a ring with TD.
So basically:
Without Duncan Parker has nothing(ring)

Ginobili is an amazing player when he leads the team!!! But, what got to me was when the thing came up of:

Manu >> Gervin

[ALVAREZ6]

But, what got to me was when the thing came up of:

Manu >> Gervin
I haven't been a Spurs fan long enough to really see how Gervin played, so I have no idea how they compare.

[mookie2001]

gervin could go coast to coast and jump up, hang, and then bust it
manu plays like that alot

but he owns gervin at D

[E20]

Well they both play the 2 guard and they both drive in and do some spectacular shit. The things that Manu had on Gervin were 3PT shooting, Gervin standing in at a measly 29.7 percent(career) and that Manu gave out more assists.(Gervin 2.8 APG career)

[Sense]

There's no way we can compare both of them..

Just separate them in different categories with different situations at different eras.

[red kryptonite]

There's no way we can compare both of them..

Just separate them in different categories with different situations at different eras.

This is the most sensible answer. Gervin was good in his time and Manu is good now.

If they ever met one-on-one though, in their primes, I think Manu would own him. Just too strong and athletic.

They played in different times.

[MadDog73]

All right, it's late, and I'm drunk, so I reserve the right to take this back tomorrow.

But isn't it possible to beat the Suns in one game without Duncan?

Here's what I invision: Duncan making a statement by starting the game. He gets pulled out soon after opening tip, replaced by Horry.

Horry, Manu, Tony, Bowen and Nazr. That's a nasty starting line-up right there. Sure, the Spurs will lack a deep bench, but against the Suns, that's less of a problem.

I'll leave it out here for the night, and see how it looks in the sober daylight.

[dav4463]

Having seen the great "Iceman" George Gervin play many times, I have to say there is NO WAY Ginobli "owns" him ! I love Ginobli, I love his game, everything about his game, but George Gervin is one of the greatest players ever to play in the NBA. As for not having a ring, he just didn't get lucky enough....lost some tight ones to Dr.J and the Sixers, those great Bullets teams led by Elvin Hayes, the Lakers, but just like Reggie Miller, Ice never quit trying. He is a LEGEND, He is Dr.J's favorite player ! He did more than just score, that is just what the team needed him to do. As for 3pt shooting, that shot wasn't emphasized in Gervin's time. I'm sure he could shoot it if he needed to shoot it, he just never looked for the three unless trailing late. He was truly greatness and could never be "owned" by anyone past or present !

[MI21]

I have a feeling if you brought up "Ginobili vs Gervin" idea anywhere else but this forum, you would get laughed at very loudly.

[rascal]

u dont think a team with duncan, iverson, lebron, etc etc could win a ring???
Yes that team would win a ring. Put these guys together for an entire season and they will win. Throw them together for a short time in a not so important basketball tournament and they will not do as well.

[rascal]

Gervin is better than Manu. Many here have never even seen Gervin play.
Manu's weak scoring numbers don't compare. Manu has yet to even reach 20 ppg.
Gervin's scoring ability alone puts him ahead of manu's all around game.

Gervin didn't get the help of players like Duncan and Robinson on his team thats the only reason why he never won it all.

[ALVAREZ6]

How many shots per game did Gervin take? Compare that to Manu.

[wildbill2u]

Well considering Ginobili already has a ring, I'd say yes.

Scoring is great, but the ring is the thing.

I only wish Gervin had had an inside presence like Duncan to help his teams.

[slayermin]

http://home.comcast.net/~slayermin_2/manu_1.gif

http://home.comcast.net/~slayermin_2/manu_2.gif

http://home.comcast.net/~slayermin_2/manu_3.gif