who is the better defender?

[ivanfromwestwood]

Gee or Simmons? does Gee have the strength to guard bigger forwards like Carmelo or Ariza? is Simmons quick enough?

[dbestpro]

I wonder who is the better defender between RMJ and Neal? Is Neal really an improvement, or not?

[ivanfromwestwood]

I wonder who is the better defender between RMJ and Neal? Is Neal really an improvement, or not?if its a wash, Neal better shoot lights out or im gonna be pissed.

[ElNono]

In the wing? None of the above.

[DesignatedT]

Neither

[DeadlyDynasty]

RMJ plays defense?

[ivanfromwestwood]

what about Gist. Bowen was never an offensive threat and it never hurt the spurs. can Gist guard smaller forwards?

[Obstructed_View]

I don't think any of those guys can really play defense. Spurs fans need to hope that Splitter's a decent weak side defender next to Duncan, and that Pop plays them together.

[ChuckD]

Gee or Simmons? does Gee have the strength to guard bigger forwards like Carmelo or Ariza? is Simmons quick enough?

Gee was a PF at Alabama. I think he can handle post up wings without getting run over.

[ChuckD]

what about Gist. Bowen was never an offensive threat and it never hurt the spurs. can Gist guard smaller forwards?

Bowen was ALWAYS an offensive threat from the corner, just what SA needed. If Gist had that shot, he'd make the team.

[HarlemHeat37]

The Spurs don't have any above average perimeter defenders on the team right now..only Manu would belong in that category, but obviously you don't want him to use too much energy on defense, and you obviously can't use him as a stopper..

This is the primary reason I don't view them as contenders..

[TJastal]

I'd say Hairston and Gist were the best 1 on 1 wing defender prospects the spurs had in the past year. Hairston was shoved out the door and Gist is probably going to be cut in favor of the terrible defending Simmons.

So far Pop has trashheaped all the players I think had the best chance to actually contribute something to the spurs.

Hairston: best wing defender of the bunch IMO
Mahinmi: athletic 7 footer who can defend
Penney: great shooter, hungry to prove himself
Jerrels: young talented point guard
Gist: on his way to being cut, could have been groomed to be an Odom/Durant stopper

It appears he's holding onto Neal, Temple, & Simmons (all shitty scrubs IMO) and planning on alot of small/micro ball. Can't wait for the season to start. :rolleyes

[Bruno]

Minutes played in the preseason:
Simmons: 83 min.
Gee: 32 min.

I don't get it.
It's not like Simmons has been anywhere near great. Simmons averages 2.7 ppg with a .30 DG% in the preseason.

I hope for Spurs fans mental sake that Anderson will be the one getting the backup SF minutes. Simmons playing significant minutes for Spurs will have the same kind of effect on Spurs fans than Devean George playing significant minutes with Dallas had on Mavs fans.

[TJastal]

The Spurs don't have any above average perimeter defenders on the team right now..only Manu would belong in that category, but obviously you don't want him to use too much energy on defense, and you obviously can't use him as a stopper..

This is the primary reason I don't view them as contenders..

IMO, Pop had the right pieces available to contend but so far he shitcanned all of them.

[Chomag]

Gut feeling that Simmons was just going to be Pop's Bogans (washed up vet but will get minutes over development). I honestly don't want to believe I was right. However so far I'm being proven right, sadly.

[Ditty]

Simmons D is inconsistent he can be really bad or okay he just defends like a average nba player, but his offense game is bad though.

Gee has shown flashes he can defend, but of course can't show it if he doesn't play.

Temple is an average defender he just needs to bulk up and get back in playing shape becuase he was injured this past summer.

Jefferson from the 3 games I've seen him play this year his D has looked better hopefully he continue to improve, but right now imo it's average at best.

Neal can defend pretty well(better than mason), and moves his feet that's why I can see him playing quite a bit, if his shot comes which has been okay so far around during the season in which most fans are jumping off the bridge with this guy then he can be a heck of an player.

[rogcl1]

I don't think any of those guys can really play defense. Spurs fans need to hope that Splitter's a decent weak side defender next to Duncan, and that Pop plays them together.

I agree 100%. Even with a decent wing defender, Duncan alone underneath is a formula for disaster. I was hoping to see Splitter tonight , but it was not to be.From what I saw tonight , Temple and Simmons sure have not earned any minutes for offense or defense. I am not impressed with Neal either ,but I do believe that he could be useful (maybe)if paired with the stronger players for spot minutes. He is not afraid to shoot but cannot create his own shot.
As for Anderson, I think he needs to play right now to get in shape and get comfortable , but at this time he does not appear ready to contribute either. But I think that can change .He certainly has a body that looks like a basketball player.
But yes, I think Splitter has to pan out to be a good help defender and if he is then he and Duncan must play together or the spurs will be mediocre at best on the defensive end.

[rogcl1]

I'd say Hairston and Gist were the best 1 on 1 wing defender prospects the spurs had in the past year. Hairston was shoved out the door and Gist is probably going to be cut in favor of the terrible defending Simmons.

So far Pop has trashheaped all the players I think had the best chance to actually contribute something to the spurs.

Hairston: best wing defender of the bunch IMO
Mahinmi: athletic 7 footer who can defend
Penney: great shooter, hungry to prove himself
Jerrels: young talented point guard
Gist: on his way to being cut, could have been groomed to be an Odom/Durant stopper

It appears he's holding onto Neal, Temple, & Simmons (all shitty scrubs IMO) and planning on alot of small/micro ball. Can't wait for the season to start. :rolleyes

Thats a pretty good D league team but I don't think these guys put the spurs over the top.I think it is a big jump from being d league stars like most of these guys to contributing NBA player.

[rogcl1]

I'd say Hairston and Gist were the best 1 on 1 wing defender prospects the spurs had in the past year. Hairston was shoved out the door and Gist is probably going to be cut in favor of the terrible defending Simmons.

So far Pop has trashheaped all the players I think had the best chance to actually contribute something to the spurs.

Hairston: best wing defender of the bunch IMO
Mahinmi: athletic 7 footer who can defend
Penney: great shooter, hungry to prove himself
Jerrels: young talented point guard
Gist: on his way to being cut, could have been groomed to be an Odom/Durant stopper

It appears he's holding onto Neal, Temple, & Simmons (all shitty scrubs IMO) and planning on alot of small/micro ball. Can't wait for the season to start. :rolleyes

Now don't get me wrong , from what I have seen Simmons is sucking up oxygen and Temple has not shown much this year, but solid nBA players do not grow on trees.

[TJastal]

Thats a pretty good D league team but I don't think these guys put the spurs over the top.I think it is a big jump from being d league stars like most of these guys to contributing NBA player.

Perhaps not over the top, it's hard to say. With an eye towards the future however I think they were the best prospects of the bunch.

Instead Pop is investing in RJ, Bonner, Neal, Simmons, & Temple as the future face of the franchise. Does this not scare you?

[rogcl1]

Perhaps not over the top, it's hard to say. With an eye towards the future however I think they were the best prospects of the bunch.

Instead Pop is investing in RJ, Bonner, Neal, Simmons, & Temple as the future face of the franchise. Does this not scare you?

I do not think any of these players are the face of the future. The hope is that there are minutes that can be earned on an NBA level to rest the stars.I certainly don't think that anyone in the organization thinks that any of these guys are the face of the future. And yes , Bonner and RJ are NBA players in their own roles. Not stars or faces of the future , just role players . The others are not yet. I do agree that Simmons and Temple so far show not much at all.Neal , as I said earlier , I believe maybe he can contribute in a limited role with proper pairings, but not on his own.I suppose he and Penny had similar games , I honestly did not see Penny play.
Anderson is the wild card. I do not have an opinion yet. He needs to play, get in shape, and get comfortable and then we will see. The others are d league stars or end of the bench fillers if that on an NBA team.

[ivanfromwestwood]

i would rather see Gee playing 10-15 mins a night backing up RJ because what he lacks in defense he makes up for with his athleticism and slashing to the hole. like a poor mans Sjax when he was with the spurs. as long as he plays good team defense, i dont see why we should cut him. im rooting for him.

[chasky]

Both sucks, only Tiago can save us at the defensive end of the court.

[rogcl1]

i would rather see Gee playing 10-15 mins a night backing up RJ because what he lacks in defense he makes up for with his athleticism and slashing to the hole. like a poor mans Sjax when he was with the spurs. as long as he plays good team defense, i dont see why we should cut him. im rooting for him.

I would have liked to see him play tonight . I have no opinion on him either due to lack of seeing him play at the NBA level(not D league). Hopefully Anderson can become that backup to RJ. I must say when I hear the poor man's comparison to me it means that he probably can't truly play .

[TJastal]

i would rather see Gee playing 10-15 mins a night backing up RJ because what he lacks in defense he makes up for with his athleticism and slashing to the hole. like a poor mans Sjax when he was with the spurs. as long as he plays good team defense, i dont see why we should cut him. im rooting for him.

That's what the spurs got Anderson for. Gee really has no place on the team with Anderson aboard and if Pop keeps him over Gist (who can offer something unique to the spurs -- defense on mobile PF of the league like Odom, Frye, Durant, etc) it would suck for the spurs.

[ivanfromwestwood]

That's what the spurs got Anderson for. Gee really has no place on the team with Anderson aboard and if Pop keeps him over Gist (who can offer something unique to the spurs -- defense on mobile PF of the league like Odom, Frye, Durant, etc) it would suck for the spurs.you know what you may be onto something. Gist would most likely match up better with the the likes of Carmelo and Lebron as well. didnt he also say he guarded smaller players overseas?

[jjktkk]

Perhaps not over the top, it's hard to say. With an eye towards the future however I think they were the best prospects of the bunch.

Instead Pop is investing in RJ, Bonner, Neal, Simmons, & Temple as the future face of the franchise. Does this not scare you?

Gist, Harrison, and Gee are prospects. If any one of these 3 could consistantly hit open 3's, they would probably make this team. Mahimni is still a prospect going into his 6th year, now hes with Dallas. Sometimes you just have to quit fantasizing about a prospect and move on. The Spurs have already shown that they are indeed keeping a eye on the future with promising, young, players in Hill, Blair, Splitter, and Anderson.

[TJastal]

Gist, Harrison, and Gee are prospects. If any one of these 3 could consistantly hit open 3's, they would probably make this team. Mahimni is still a prospect going into his 6th year, now hes with Dallas. Sometimes you just have to quit fantasizing about a prospect and move on. The Spurs have already shown that they are indeed keeping a eye on the future with promising, young, players in Hill, Blair, Splitter, and Anderson.

I don't have qualms about those 4 talented players who were virtual locks to make the team. Even Pop couldn't mess that up.

It's the rest of the squad that Pop has assembled. IMO, Mahinmi, Hairston, Gist, Penney, & Jerrels = better supporting cast than RJ, Bonner, Neal, Temple, Gee & Simmons.

[BG_Spurs_Fan]

It's the rest of the squad that Pop has assembled. IMO, Mahinmi, Hairston, Gist, Penney, & Jerrels = better supporting cast than RJ, Bonner, Neal, Temple, Gee & Simmons.

Bullshit! I bet the latter will play significantly more NBA games in their careers. None of the first bunch are rotation NBA players, some of them will not play another NBA game in their life.

[mingus]

WTF happened to George Hill and all of the defensive potential he had? I hope he can improve as much on defense as he has on offense.

[DrSteffo]

WTF happened to George Hill and all of the defensive potential he had? I hope he can improve as much on defense as he has on offense.

Steve Nash happened to him. Hope he will improve too.

[Obstructed_View]

Gee's legend seems to be growing the more we don't see him play.

[portnoy1]

If Gist can guard 3's I wouldnt mind having Bonner on the roster nearly as much. Pop kinda wants Bonner to be somewhat of a Horry ( a stretch 4). However If Gist can guard 3's that means Bonner can be Danny Ferry ( a tall 3 that can shoot on offense while not being compromised on defense). I seen the Spurs do cross matchups to accomadate their players abilities defensively back in the day. Against the Lakers they would have Rose the PF play against Deavan George, and Ferry the SF play against Horry. That seem to work. If the Spurs play Bonner/Gist together at the Forward Spots while having Duncan Play Center, They maximize Bonners abilities and dont expose as bad. On Defense Bonner plays the 4, While Gist ( a 6'9 mobile/athletic shotblocker in college) can guard the reserve 3's of the other team. On offense Gist would play the 4 grabbing rebounds and cleaning up, while Bonner would be a 3(like Danny Ferry) on offense launching from deep.

[TJastal]

If Gist can guard 3's I wouldnt mind having Bonner on the roster nearly as much. Pop kinda wants Bonner to be somewhat of a Horry ( a stretch 4). However If Gist can guard 3's that means Bonner can be Danny Ferry ( a tall 3 that can shoot on offense while not being compromised on defense). I seen the Spurs do cross matchups to accomadate their players abilities defensively back in the day. Against the Lakers they would have Rose the PF play against Deavan George, and Ferry the SF play against Horry. That seem to work. If the Spurs play Bonner/Gist together at the Forward Spots while having Duncan Play Center, They maximize Bonners abilities and dont expose as bad. On Defense Bonner plays the 4, While Gist ( a 6'9 mobile/athletic shotblocker in college) can guard the reserve 3's of the other team. On offense Gist would play the 4 grabbing rebounds and cleaning up, while Bonner would be a 3(like Danny Ferry) on offense launching from deep.

This scenario sounds alot better than watching another year of RJ at PF.

[TJastal]

Or RJ at SF for that matter. :spin

[portnoy1]

Or RJ at SF for that matter. :spin
Yeah, I mean we have a whole bunch of 6-5 slow/old prospects at SF. Gist has the Size of a 4 but is still a better option than Simmons (old/slow/kinda short) Gee (Short) Temple (???? just no). At 6-9 he has length to trouble the shot of Your average backup SF's. He has decent side to side movement, enough to cut someone off or alter the guys path giving the help time to get in position ( even if the help is Bonner). Cause helping doesnt mean Blocking someones shot. Its simply being in position to stop or make it very difficult for a person to get a high percentage look. If Gist forces a guy baseline, while at the same time giving him a little bump on his way to the basket that will give Bonner or Duncan time enough to at least stand right outside that lane area and cut the guy off, like in all the years prior to 2009. Spurs had Fabricio Oberto (non-shotblocker) starting for them 2yrs in a row and still managed to be a top defensive team. Why? He simply understood where to be at what time on the defensive end (offense too).

[mingus]

Steve Nash happened to him. Hope he will improve too.

yeah, but Bowen was probably the only defender i've ever seen guard Nash the way he did. i don't think there's a player in the league that gives Nash any trouble. Nash might be the toughest cover in the league. it's guys like the Richardson that i was hoping he'd be able to cover and keep from going off on us.

[ivanfromwestwood]

lots of good points of view. you can almost make a good case for either Gee or Gist. not so much for Simmons. in a perfect world we could keep both.

[dunkman]

yeah, but Bowen was probably the only defender i've ever seen guard Nash the way he did. i don't think there's a player in the league that gives Nash any trouble. Nash might be the toughest cover in the league. it's guys like the Richardson that i was hoping he'd be able to cover and keep from going off on us.

It's interesting to see how the Nuggets play defense against the Suns:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEpBMpYLq5w&feature=player_embedded

They always bother Nash, he never gives a precise pass and then they rotate quickly on defense, closing out easy points opportunities.

[ChumpDumper]

IMO, Pop had the right pieces available to contend but so far he shitcanned all of them.Hairston + Gist = championship!

[Dex]

Hairston + Gist = championship!

Don't forget Tolliver. He's been carrying the Warriors for a while now.

[dunkman]

Hairston + Gist = championship!

D-League championship, perhaps.

True to be said, there have been some mistakes:

- When the team cut Raja Bell in 2000.
- S-Jax was left go for nothing.
- His replacement Hedo was left to walk for nothing. After S-Jax and Hedo the Spurs struggled big time to get bigger wing players.
- Scola was left too many years in Spain, then traded.

Other than that Sato become a big star in Europe, but it took him many years. Javtokas could have helped but he injured himself.

It was obvious S-Jax, Hedo and Scola were talented players, not sure why the Spurs passed on them. In addition to the 0.4 s distraction, Manu's foul on Dirk, Crawford's sabotage in '06 and '08, that was the reason why the Spurs never repeated.

[TJastal]

Hairston + Gist = championship!

We'll see how Pop's new multi-tool set of Simmons, Neal, & Temple fair this year. I'm sure they'll be filling in at almost every position for every hairbrained lineup Pop can think of.

[L.I.T]

D-League championship, perhaps.

True to be said, there have been some mistakes:

- When the team cut Raja Bell in 2000.
- S-Jax was left go for nothing.
- His replacement Hedo was left to walk for nothing. After S-Jax and Hedo the Spurs struggled big time to get bigger wing players.
- Scola was left too many years in Spain, then traded.

Other than that Sato become a big star in Europe, but it took him many years. Javtokas could have helped but he injured himself.

It was obvious S-Jax, Hedo and Scola were talented players, not sure why the Spurs passed on them. In addition to the 0.4 s distraction, Manu's foul on Dirk, Crawford's sabotage in '06 and '08, that was the reason why the Spurs never repeated.

There was no room for Bell at the time; though that is one that would be nice to get back.

SJax turned down the Spurs offer to take less money elsewhere and you must not remember Hedo's stint that well.

[dunkman]

There was no room for Bell at the time; though that is one that would be nice to get back.

SJax turned down the Spurs offer to take less money elsewhere and you must not remember Hedo's stint that well.

Hedo whined about being a banch player, he also didn't play well against the Lakers in the playoffs. But he was solid talent since his days with the Kings. His stance with the Spurs wasn't so bad. Horry played worse than Hedo, remember that for both it was their first season with the Spurs.

SJax's agent probably started looking too late at the FA market, SJax was thinking the Spurs were to re-sign him. At that point, there wasn't a team that needed a SG/SF with cap space or the MLE available. But the Spurs offer was lower than one year at vet minimum and two years with MLE, which SJax got. Otherwise, he was good enough to find a team willing to guarantee playtime and touches to showcase his talents, despite being paid the veteran minimum salary.

[L.I.T]

Hedo whined about being a banch player, he also didn't play well against the Lakers in the playoffs. But he was solid talent since his days with the Kings. His stance with the Spurs wasn't so bad. Horry played worse than Hedo, remember that for both it was their first season with the Spurs.

SJax's agent probably started looking too late at the FA market, SJax was thinking the Spurs were to re-sign him. At that point, there wasn't a team that needed a SG/SF with cap space or the MLE available. But the Spurs offer was lower than one year at vet minimum and two years with MLE, which SJax got. Otherwise, he was good enough to find a team willing to guarantee playtime and touches to showcase his talents, despite being paid the veteran minimum salary.

Hedo is a unique talent that requires ball domination to be effective. As much as people complain about RJ, Hedo as well just did not fit in the Spurs system. And his performance in the playoffs most definitely sealed his fate. If I remember he signed for something around 5 mil a year with the Magic. That season as well the Spurs signed Brent Barry for about 4.2 million a year; which worked out well for them.

If anything Hedo's 2007-2008 season with the Magic was a bit of a fluke, only once previously had he shot 45%+.

With regards to SJax, he turned down a 3 year $10 million contract offer (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/marty_burns/10/15/jackson/) from the Spurs. So no it wasn't lower than vet minimum. Financially it turned out well for him after it was all said and done.

[dunkman]

Hedo is a unique talent that requires ball domination to be effective. As much as people complain about RJ, Hedo as well just did not fit in the Spurs system. And his performance in the playoffs most definitely sealed his fate. If I remember he signed for something around 5 mil a year with the Magic. That season as well the Spurs signed Brent Barry for about 4.2 million a year; which worked out well for them.

If anything Hedo's 2007-2008 season with the Magic was a bit of a fluke, only once previously had he shot 45%+.

With regards to SJax, he turned down a 3 year $10 million contract offer (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/marty_burns/10/15/jackson/) from the Spurs. So no it wasn't lower than vet minimum. Financially it turned out well for him after it was all said and done.
Keep in mind that the 3 season period following the 2003 championship, S-Jax got: Ven Minimum AND 2 x MLE = $1M + $5.1M + $5.6M = $11.7M which was more than the Spurs offer during the same period.

His agent said he was a starter and they wanted a contract similar to other NBA starters. The Spurs said they wanted him back. When the Spurs finally specified their offer, S-Jax run out of better options. Never said he was offered a veteran minimum from the Spurs.

The Spurs had their reasons to offer S-Jax $10M for only 3 seasons, skip on Hedo's and Scola's services. My point is that those talented players walked for NOTHING in return or very little in the case of Scola.

For example, after the 2003-2004 season in Atlanta, the Hawks made a S&T with S-Jax which landed them Al Harrington.