Dispelling the myth that Kobe Bryant had no help against the Suns in '06

[midnightpulp]

Really just another attempt by Kobe-cocksuckers to rewrite history with the purpose of excusing their hero while placing blame everywhere else. When we go back and examine the stats, we discover that Kobe had sufficient support, to not only make the series competitive (which is was), but to possibly win it outright.

Another fact to consider is that Steve Nash's supporting cast wasn't much superior to that of his superstar counterpart.

The Lakers' unheralded supporting cast wasn't the primary reason the Lakers lost the series, blowing a 3-1 lead in the process. They deserve some of the blame, sure, but so does Bryant. It's not like he was out there scoring 40 a game on 50% shooting (like Jordan would often do before he got a capable supporting cast). Aside from his 50 point explosion in Game 6, Kobe had a very substandard series, and was thoroughly outplayed by Steve Nash(the rightful MVP of the '06 season).

Now, let us digress and take a look at the stats.

Game 1:

A game the Lakers lost by 5. The great, transcendent, mythical-in-stature Kobe Bryant scored 22 points on 33% shooting. On the other hand, Lamar Odom had a 21 and 14 performance on 53% shooting. Luke Walton chimed in with 19 on 56%. Even the much maligned Smush Parker scored 15, managing to out shoot Kobe with a 38% mark.

Truth is, if Kobe contributes the way he's supposed to in that game, the Lakers steal Game 1 on the road.

Game 2:

Lakers win by 6, on the road. Kobe had a nice game with 29 points and 10 boards on 50% shooting. His shitty supporting cast that let him down time and time again did little. Lamar Odom had 21 and 7 on 75% shooting. Kwame Brown was decent with 12 points on 50%, and the bench outscored Phoenix's bench 22 to 4. NO HELP!!!!

Game 3:

Lakers win by 7, at home. The successor to Michael Jordan had 17 points on 33% shooting, but once again, got no help. Luke Walton had 17 points and 10 rebounds on 42%, Smush had a breakout game with 18 points on 56% shooting. Kwame rode the wave and had a double-double, 13 and 11 on 62%, while Odom dominated the boards with 17 rebounds. NO HELP!!!!

Game 4:

Lakers win by 1. Game winner by Kobe. He scored 24 on 64% shooting with 8 dimes, but also 7 TOs. Still, he played a good game. But once again he did all himself, never mind the fact that Odom scored 25 points and LA's bench once again, for the 3rd straight game, outscored Phoenix's. NO HELP!!!!

Game 5:

Back on the road at Phoenix. The Suns were cooking and blew out the Lakers by 17. Kobe had a good game with 29 points, 7 boards, and 5 assists, but also turned the ball over 5 times. Odom's line was 18, 15, and 6 on 50%. Kwame Brown didn't miss a shot and scored 14 points on 6-6 shooting. That said, there was nothing much the Lakers could've done. Phoenix was too hot that night.

Game 6:

Now this is the game Kobe cocksuckers always refer to as evidence that "Kobe had no help." They might say, "The love of my life scored 50 points and we still lost. Kobe's supporting cast sucks!!!!"

Let's take a look.

It was an overtime thriller, which the Lakers lost by 8. Kobe had his first superstar game of the series (all his other games were below his season average, yet, he gets no blame), scoring 50 points, grabbing 8 boards (also had 7 TOs) on 57% shooting. Great game, indeed. But he had more than enough contribution from the other Lakers to win this game (if not, how did the game go into overtime, which only did so because of a Tim Thomas 3?). Odom was stellar with 22 points, 11 boards, and 9 assists on 57% shooting. Kwame Brown scored 17 and only missed one shot. Devean George came off the bench with a solid 14 points.

More than enough offense. Maybe their defense let them down? And Kobe, being the celebrated defender he is, definitely factors into that equation.

Nash had arguably a better game than Kobe. He scored 32 points, dished out 13 assists with only 3 TOs, on an unconscious 64% shooting. Kobe is supposed to be this lockdown defender who will always guard the other team's best perimeter player and shut him down. Guess he needed more than reputation to slow down Nash (or Barbosa, who scored 22 points on 7-9 shooting).

Point is, despite Kobe's scoring performance, he deserves to shoulder some of the blame for this loss. Suns' guards lit up their Lakers' counterparts, and last I checked, Kobe is a guard.

Game 7 isn't really worth going into detail over. The heartbreaking fashion they lost game 6 in all but sealed their fate and the Lakers were already beaten in Game 7 before they even stepped on the floor.

There you have it. Kobe was in no way out there "all by himself" like many of his intellectually challenged fans like to claim.

[NRHector]

Really just another attempt by Kobe-cocksuckers to rewrite history with the purpose of excusing their hero while placing blame everywhere else. When we go back and examine the stats, we discover that Kobe had sufficient support, to not only make the series competitive (which is was), but to possibly win it outright.

Another fact to consider is that Steve Nash's supporting cast wasn't much superior to that of his superstar counterpart.

The Lakers' unheralded supporting cast wasn't the primary reason the Lakers lost the series, blowing a 3-1 lead in the process. They deserve some of the blame, sure, but so does Bryant. It's not like he was out there scoring 40 a game on 50% shooting (like Jordan would often do before he got a capable supporting cast). Aside from his 50 point explosion in Game 6, Kobe had a very substandard series, and was thoroughly outplayed by Steve Nash(the rightful MVP of the '06 season).

Now, let us digress and take a look at the stats.

Game 1:

A game the Lakers lost by 5. The great, transcendent, mythical-in-stature Kobe Bryant scored 22 points on 33% shooting. On the other hand, Lamar Odom had a 21 and 14 performance on 53% shooting. Luke Walton chimed in with 19 on 56%. Even the much maligned Smush Parker scored 15, managing to out shoot Kobe with a 38% mark.

Truth is, if Kobe contributes the way he's supposed to in that game, the Lakers steal Game 1 on the road.

Game 2:

Lakers win by 6, on the road. Kobe had a nice game with 29 points and 10 boards on 50% shooting. His shitty supporting cast that let him down time and time again did little. Lamar Odom had 21 and 7 on 75% shooting. Kwame Brown was decent with 12 points on 50%, and the bench outscored Phoenix's bench 22 to 4. NO HELP!!!!

Game 3:

Lakers win by 7, at home. The successor to Michael Jordan had 17 points on 33% shooting, but once again, got no help. Luke Walton had 17 points and 10 rebounds on 42%, Smush had a breakout game with 18 points on 56% shooting. Kwame rode the wave and had a double-double, 13 and 11 on 62%, while Odom dominated the boards with 17 rebounds. NO HELP!!!!

Game 4:

Lakers win by 1. Game winner by Kobe. He scored 24 on 64% shooting with 8 dimes, but also 7 TOs. Still, he played a good game. But once again he did all himself, never mind the fact that Odom scored 25 points and LA's bench once again, for the 3rd straight game, outscored Phoenix's. NO HELP!!!!

Game 5:

Back on the road at Phoenix. The Suns were cooking and blew out the Lakers by 17. Kobe had a good game with 29 points, 7 boards, and 5 assists, but also turned the ball over 5 times. Odom's line was 18, 15, and 6 on 50%. Kwame Brown didn't miss a shot and scored 14 points on 6-6 shooting. That said, there was nothing much the Lakers could've done. Phoenix was too hot that night.

Game 6:

Now this is game Kobe cocksuckers always refer to as evidence that "Kobe had no help." They might say, "The love of my life scored 50 points and we still lost. Kobe's supporting cast sucks!!!!"

Let's take a look.

It was an overtime thriller, which the Lakers lost by 8. Kobe had his first superstar game of the series (all his other games were below his season average, yet, he gets no blame), scoring 50 points, grabbing 8 boards (also had 7 TOs) on 57% shooting. Great game, indeed. But he had more than enough contribution from the other Lakers to win this game (if not, how did the game go into overtime, which only did so because of a Tim Thomas 3?). Odom was stellar with 22 points, 11 boards, and 9 assists on 57% shooting. Kwame Brown scored 17 and only missed one shot. Devean George came off the bench with a solid 14 points.

More than enough offense. Maybe their defense let them down? And Kobe, being the celebrated defender he is, definitely factors into that equation.

Nash had arguably a better game than Kobe. He scored 32 points, dished out 13 assists with only 3 TOs, on an unconscious 64% shooting. Kobe is supposed to be this lockdown defender who will always guard the other team's best perimeter player and shut him down. Guess he needed more than reputation to slow down Nash (or Barbosa, who scored 22 points on 7-9 shooting).

Point is, despite Kobe's scoring performance, he deserves to shoulder some of the blame for this loss. Suns' guards lit up their Lakers' counterparts, and last I checked, Kobe is a guard.

Game 7 isn't really worth going into detail over. The heartbreaking fashion they lost game 6 in all but sealed their fate and the Lakers were already beaten in Game 7 before they even stepped on the floor.

There you have it. Kobe was in no way out there "all by himself" like many of his intellectually challenged fans like to claim.

Mid with the goods as usual

[O.J Mayo]

LMAO Laker fags. What can I say? Even Kwame Brown and Smush Parker came to play while the Kobe Bryant sucked as usual in the playoffs.

[Giuseppe]

Bryant quit. We've had to live with that stain and eat that shit sandwich every day since.

Just like your Rodman had quit years earlier, and Nash would quit several years later.

We all have our crosses to bear and I bear mine in public.

[NRHector]

Bryant quit. We've had to live with that stain and eat that shit sandwich every day since.

Just like your Rodman had quit years earlier, and Nash would quit several years later.

We all have our crosses to bear and I bear mine in public.the topic is Kobe don't try to change it as you always do :nope

[Giuseppe]

Perhaps, but, all dirty laundry will get aired in this types threads. And that's just the way it's gonna be.

Jordan quit.
Pippen quit.
Rodman quit.
Kobe quit.
Nash quit.

Let us proceed...

[NRHector]

Perhaps, but, all dirty laundry will get aired in this types threads. And that's just the way it's gonna be.

Jordan quit.
Pippen quit.
Rodman quit.
Kobe quit.
Nash quit.

Let us proceed...Kobe, stay with the topic

[Giuseppe]

& your Rodman.

[LkrFan]

Spin it all you want midnightpunkass. Kobe still has more rings than the Sp*rs entire franchise. :downspin:

[Giuseppe]

Spin it all you want midnightpunkass. Kobe still has more rings than the Sp*rs entire franchise. :downspin:

And nothing, absolutely nothing is going to change that until at least June of 2011.

ha, ha.

[NRHector]

& your Rodman.if you want to talk about Rod start a thread this one is about KOBE stay with the topic you are a smart man weird but smart

[Giuseppe]

I don't start threads. It's my religion.

[midnightpulp]

please love my Kobe :cry

[lefty]

Kobe is a pussy

And the Lakers are Gasol's team

[BadOdor]

Kobe is a pussy

And the Lakers are Gasol's team

lefty, with the bads.

[Giuseppe]

And the Spurs got skunked.

[NRHector]

I don't start threads. It's my religion.then stay with the topic don't try to divert it

[lefty]

lefty, with the bads.
BadOdor, obsessed with Lefty :lmao

[Giuseppe]

That is exactly what I'm doing.

[NRHector]

That is exactly what I'm doing.yeap that's exactly what you are doing diverting it

[Giuseppe]

Nope. I'm staying with it, you just don't like the answer.

Bryant learned from the Phoenix series, passed it, and now you're lit.

That's the way the cookie crumbles.

[NRHector]

Nope. I'm staying with it, you just don't like the answer.

Bryant learned from the Phoenix series, passed it, and now you're lit.

That's the way the cookie crumbles.we are not talking about me is about Kobe

[Banzai]

Put Smush Parker,Kwame Brown,Maurice Evans,Brian Cook, on the Suns..and what happens?

[Ace]

Atleast he didn't quit like Lebron.... Oh wait

[lefty]

Put Smush Parker,Kwame Brown,Maurice Evans,Brian Cook, on the Suns..and what happens?
Trip to the WCF

[midnightpulp]

Put Smush Parker,Kwame Brown,Maurice Evans,Brian Cook, on the Suns..and what happens?

We can't know. Speculation that has no basis in reality is irrelevant. Only facts can be examined. And the facts say that Kobe had sufficient help to win the series. If not for a Tim Thomas 3, he would've.

Anyhow, Nash made shulbs like Barbosa, Tim Thomas, and Diaw look like all-stars, so anything is possible. Those players haven't done shit since.

[Giuseppe]

Put Smush Parker,Kwame Brown,Maurice Evans,Brian Cook, on the Suns..and what happens?

They skunked the Spurs.

tee, hee.

[lefty]

Put Smush Parker,Kwame Brown,Maurice Evans,Brian Cook, on the Suns..and what happens?
1 white boys and 4 niggas

[Giuseppe]

and a skunk.

[NRHector]

They skunked the Spurs.

tee, hee.and how did it go from Kobe topic to the Spurs topic?

[lefty]

and how did it go from Kobe topic to the Spurs topic?
Because bandwagon Laker fan is insecure

[Giuseppe]

16 NBA World Championships withstanding.

[midnightpulp]

16 NBA World Championships withstanding.

Flaccid peter notwithstanding.

[ezau]

amazing, amazing thread. Props midnight! Now let's see how "real" Laker fans respond.

[ezau]

and a skunk.

People who caused the defeat during the Vietnam war should stay quiet until the last days of theirs lives. TBH, losing against a bunch of little Asians was fucking embarrassing.

[ezau]

Spin it all you want midnightpunkass. Kobe still has more rings than the Sp*rs entire franchise. :downspin:

Stay on topic. Midnight put up all those stats for you Laker fans to look at. Now let's discuss Midnight's points by staying on topic. :flag::flag:

[Giuseppe]

People who caused the defeat during the Vietnam war should stay quiet until the last days of theirs lives. TBH, losing against a bunch of little Asians was fucking embarrassing.

They're difficult to get aholt of. You try controlling an Oriental fire drill.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Put Smush Parker,Kwame Brown,Maurice Evans,Brian Cook, on the Suns..and what happens?
As usual Lakerfan revises history and pretends Lamar Odom wasn't on the Lakers from 2005-2007.

Btw Maurice Evans wasn't even on the Lakers during the 2006 season, but one seldom expect Lakerfan to know anything about the 2005-2007 Lakers, since they didn't really watch them.

[Nathan89]

Great thread.

I knew kobe's career has been drastically overrated but the closer you look the worst it gets. Thanks for opening my eyes even wider.

[Giuseppe]

Kobe: 5

Duncan: 4

[SomeCallMeTim]

We can't know. Speculation that has no basis in reality is irrelevant. Only facts can be examined. And the facts say that Kobe had sufficient help to win the series. If not for a Tim Thomas 3, he would've.

That's pretty much what I took from the series. Though PHX easily won scoring margin in the series because of the blowouts in Games 5 and 7, the Lakers could've easily won the series. It wasn't just Thomas hitting a 3, it was the fact that he even got to take that shot in the first place because the Lakers couldn't secure their own defensive boards that really stung.

I remember that moment vividly. Ouch.

The road was wide open that year, too. They would've faced the Clippers in the 2nd round... and of course that series was eminently winnable. There's never been a hallway series in the history of the NBA and you'd have to think the Lakers would've had a pretty decent "home on the road" crowd even for their away games. The Clippers were very good that year but not exactly a great team.

Then it likely would've been Dallas in the WCFs... they would've been big favorites, but like the Suns I think beatable for the Lakers -- certainly a better draw than the Spurs.

Then Miami in the Finals? Shaq vs. Kobe? Would've been a crazy series.

Oh, what could've been.

[Giuseppe]

^That loss hurt more than the joy of 15 & 16.

[Giuseppe]

It's nice to dream. The Suns simply played down to their weaker opponent.

Luva, per usual, with the goods.

[Jelloisjigglin]

the topic is Kobe don't try to change it as you always do :nope


Troll threads are fair game imo

[Quit Hatin']

What's worse quiting a game or quiting for 3 years straight?
oh ya
Quit Hatin'

[midnightpulp]

What's worse quiting a game or quiting for 3 years straight?
oh ya
Quit Hatin'

I don't know. Ask Kobe. He quit in a game and quit for 5 years straight when he was shooting his team out of the Finals against the Pistons, leading the Lakers to the lottery, choking a 3-1 lead to the Suns, losing to the Suns again, blowing a 24 point lead at home in the Finals, which concluded in a 39 point beatdown.

[Medvedenko]

I don't know. Ask Kobe. He quit in a game and quit for 5 years straight when he was shooting his team out of the Finals against the Pistons, leading the Lakers to the lottery, choking a 3-1 lead to the Suns, losing to the Suns again, blowing a 24 point lead at home in the Finals, which concluded in a 39 point beatdown.

Dude, your obsession is unparralled. I wish you were born around the time Jordan was leading the league. Things would be have interesting back then.

Great Harlem Heat impersonation lately. Kudos to you.

[Giuseppe]

You've no room, Mid. Your Rodman quit in the playoffs as well. If he hadn't you may very well have 5 right now instead of only 4.

[Quit Hatin']

I don't know. Ask Kobe. He quit in a game and quit for 5 years straight when he was shooting his team out of the Finals against the Pistons, leading the Lakers to the lottery, choking a 3-1 lead to the Suns, losing to the Suns again, blowing a 24 point lead at home in the Finals, which concluded in a 39 point beatdown.

What he do after that? o ya he rang twice.

Quit Hatin'

[midnightpulp]

Dude, your obsession is unparralled. I wish you were born around the time Jordan was leading the league. Things would be have interesting back then.

Great Harlem Heat impersonation lately. Kudos to you.

Please love my Kobe :cry

Care to address the content of my original post? It's not blind hate, despite what you might believe. I back up my argument with statistics and analysis.

[Quit Hatin']

hey if you gonna put the sole blame on kobe for losing, then you got to give him sole credit for winning.

[SomeCallMeTim]

hey if you gonna put the sole blame on kobe for losing, then you got to give him sole credit for winning.

:lol

I don't think the point of trolling is logical consistency.

[Giuseppe]

^Yep, yep.

[#2!]

man midnight is returning fire lately. kinda cool to see. I understand Kobe has more rings, and if he gets to 6 w/out Duncan ever hitting 5, or at least making it back to the finals, then it is pretty much inevitable that ESPN analysts (unfortunately the closest thing the general public has to "sports historians") will consider Kobe the man of the era.

The argument, as the 'ships are currently distributed, still leans a little towards Duncan when you consider the Shaq as Batman factor, and look at how much lower Kobe's low points are in comparison to Duncan's. The fact that in the first years of the Laker's Kobe era they weren't any kind of a force for contenders to fear makes Duncan's consistency stand out as an achievement rather than just an arbitrary stat.

[midnightpulp]

hey if you gonna put the sole blame on kobe for losing, then you got to give him sole credit for winning.

I never even suggested as such in my original post.

I addressed the false claim, made by you Kobe fans, that "he had no help" and basically carried the Lakers. The stats illustrate otherwise.

[Medvedenko]

Please love my Kobe :cry

Care to address the content of my original post? It's not blind hate, despite what you might believe. I back up my argument with statistics and analysis.

Why, is this an internet challenge...yikes, better get my bball reference guide out and my box score glasses on.

Please, argue with yourself.

[Quit Hatin']

so if smush and kwame were so good why they out of the league within a year of leavin the lakers?

[midnightpulp]

:lol

I don't think the point of trolling is logical consistency.

There aren't any logical inconsistencies in my original post. Nowhere did I state that Kobe was solely responsible for the Lakers series loss against the Suns.

I'm arguing that he had enough support to win that series and should bear some of the responsibility.

[SomeCallMeTim]

man midnight is returning fire lately. kinda cool to see. I understand Kobe has more rings, and if he gets to 6 w/out Duncan ever hitting 5, or at least making it back to the finals, then it is pretty much inevitable that ESPN analysts (unfortunately the closest thing the general public has to "sports historians") will consider Kobe the man of the era.

The argument, as the 'ships are currently distributed, still leans a little towards Duncan when you consider the Shaq as Batman factor, and look at how much lower Kobe's low points are in comparison to Duncan's. The fact that in the first years of the Laker's Kobe era they weren't any kind of a force for contenders to fear makes Duncan's consistency stand out as an achievement rather than just an arbitrary stat.

So much obsession with individuals when it is teams that win championships.

I enjoy talking about individuals players since teams are comprised of them and there is plenty to discuss about said players... but the obsession with K*be, L*Br*n, D*nc*n, etc. borders on pathological round these parts.

[midnightpulp]

so if smush and kwame were so good why they out of the league within a year of leavin the lakers?

You're focusing on only two players. Players enter and leave the league quite frequently. Should I excuse Tim Duncan for not winning because Keith Bogans and Matt Bonner were a significant part of the rotation?

Point is, Kwame and Smush played decently enough in that series for the Lakers to win. Luke also had a few good games, and the Lakers bench outscored the Suns bench in over half the games. Not to mention the fact that Odom had a very strong series.

Kobe had enough help. That's it, and that's all.

[midnightpulp]

Why, is this an internet challenge...yikes, better get my bball reference guide out and my box score glasses on.

Please, argue with yourself.

So you have no argument? I thought you were the one leading the charge to "raise the bar" around here? I didn't simply open this thread with "Kobe sucks, har, har, har." I presented a coherent argument, supported by facts.

If you have nothing to contribute beyond stock responses, then please resume sucking Kobe's dick, Highlights.

[Medvedenko]

You're focusing on only two players. Players enter and leave the league quite frequently. Should I excuse Tim Duncan for not winning because Keith Bogans and Matt Bonner were a significant part of the rotation?

Point is, Kwame and Smush played decently enough in that series for the Lakers to win. Luke also had a few good games, and the Lakers bench outscored the Suns bench in over half the games. Not to mention the fact that Odom had a very strong series.

Kobe had enough help. That's it, and that's all.

Who's arguing that Kobe didn't have enough help. All laker fans know that they should have won that series against the Suns. They had a few unlucky breaks and blew it. The bottom line is this, without Kobe you wouldn't see the likes of Kwame, Smush, Cook or Walton have any decent games. It all starts with Kobe and ends with him. He wasn't good enough to win that series and if not for a Tim Thomas 3 after a blown rebound by Lamar, you'd be discussing the next series where the Lakers would have lost regardless. It wasn't their year.

[midnightpulp]

Is the idea of getting skunked by a lesser team hurting you that much? It was either us or them, and just imagine if we had dipped in that ass.

Last year's playoffs have nothing to with this thread. Try to keep up.

[Quit Hatin']

ill take keith bogans and matt bonner everyday over smush and kwame. i still have nightmares about these two playing basketball. They might have been the worst decision makers i have ever seen. These scrubs were supposed to run the triangle and be our 3rd and 4th best players. Odom is a 3rd wheel at best and luke had one decent year and now he is a permenant ir.

[midnightpulp]

Who's arguing that Kobe didn't have enough help.

Kobe fans argued that constantly after the series concluded. They spun it in such a way to lead us to believe that Kobe was scoring 35 a game on 50% shooting while the rest of the Lakers were standing around holding their dicks.

To this day, that myth is still propogated. And I'm doing my part in proving it wrong.

[#2!]

So much obsession with individuals when it is teams that win championships.

I enjoy talking about individuals players since teams are comprised of them and there is plenty to discuss about said players... but the obsession with K*be, L*Br*n, D*nc*n, etc. borders on pathological round these parts.

Okay you could just ask me what I think about the teams, instead of assuming I have only opinions about individual players based on a single post.

Or you could just put labels on me to make it seem like you're a better fan/more intelligent/more sane whatever it is you're aiming for.

Also, the franchises follow the paths of their franchise player, so the conversation would go about the same anyways. The Lakers have made it to the finals 3 more times and won 1 more championship (99/2000 AND 09/10 are allowed to be considered the same decade by LA fans, and its excused by calling it an "era." So I have no problem throwing in 99 as well, and just labeling that era "post Jordan."), which puts them ahead of San Antonio. But, once again it is at best (for Laker supporters) a close call when considering that their team missed the playoffs once, and were not considered contenders for 3 straight seasons.

[Quit Hatin']

Kobe fans argued that constantly after the series concluded. They spun it in such a way to lead us to believe that Kobe was scoring 35 a game on 50% shooting while the rest of the Lakers were standing around holding their dicks.

To this day, that myth is still propogated. And I'm doing my part in proving it wrong.

and to this day kobe haters are trying to find excuses to put kobe down. lay off the haterade and try defending your team for a change :flag:

[SomeCallMeTim]

Point is, Kwame and Smush played decently enough in that series for the Lakers to win. Luke also had a few good games, and the Lakers bench outscored the Suns bench in over half the games. Not to mention the fact that Odom had a very strong series.

Kobe had enough help. That's it, and that's all.

You keep talking about how Smush played decently, and I have no idea why.

Smush had two games you could construe as good. The rest of the series he played like hot trash and was a huge reason they lost the series.

Luke did play pretty well. But there were only two players who consistently brought it all series long: Kobe and Odom. Before then, Odom got ragged on constantly by Laker fans who complained that he shrank in big games. That series shut a lot of them up. He was fantastic. Didn't take long for people to forget (or discredit it entirely since the Lakers didn't win the series) and then he played very well against the Suns again in the 2007 postseason.

The 2006 Lakers were two phenomenal players and ten below-average NBA players. Full stop. They had the depth of a birdbath in July at every position. That they took the Suns to within a missed ORB of elimination is testament to what Phil Jackson can do with a minimal level of talent IMO.

[SomeCallMeTim]

Okay you could just ask me what I think about the teams, instead of assuming I have only opinions about individual players based on a single post.

Or you could just put labels on me to make it seem like you're a better fan/more intelligent/more sane whatever it is you're aiming for.

Also, the franchises follow the paths of their franchise player, so the conversation would go about the same anyways. The Lakers have made it to the finals 3 more times and won 1 more championship (99/2000 AND 09/10 are allowed to be considered the same decade by LA fans, and its excused by calling it an "era." So I have no problem throwing in 99 as well, and just labeling that era "post Jordan."), which puts them ahead of San Antonio. But, once again it is at best (for Laker supporters) a close call when considering that their team missed the playoffs once, and were not considered contenders for 3 straight seasons.

My comments weren't directed at you, per se, more at the constant discussions that are single-mindedly focused on individual players to the point of missing the forest for the trees.

[21_Dickings]

and to this day kobe haters are trying to find excuses to put kobe down. Lay off the haterade and try defending your team for a change :flag:

Hell of a post!

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

I'm surprised SomeCallMeTim is even willing to acknowledge Odom's presence on the 2006 Lakers, it's Lakerfan code of conduct to pretend he didn't exist.

[Quit Hatin']

we should do a "where are they now" for the 2005-2006 lakers. I wouldn't be suprised if brian cook is selling hotdogs outside of staples. lol.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

lol gray named Lakers fans talking about how bad Smush and Kwame are pretending they actually watched in 2006.

[#2!]

and to this day kobe haters are trying to find excuses to put kobe down. lay off the haterade and try defending your team for a change :flag:
you forgot to say


Quit Hatin'

[Quit Hatin']

lol midnight fucked up.

[SomeCallMeTim]

I'm surprised SomeCallMeTim is even willing to acknowledge Odom's presence on the 2006 Lakers, it's Lakerfan code of conduct to pretend he didn't exist.

I'm a big Odom fan.

Always have been. The guy has been nothing but great for the Lakers in his role. Inconsistent at times, but so much of what he does is underappreciated. Believe me, I get frustrated with many Laker fans, too, who just don't get what he brings to this team.

No Odom and this team doesn't even make the Finals these last three years.

Rebounds, efficient scoring, unselfish play, and defense -- all from a guy who has been a model citizen and who can get along with one of the moodier and more difficult superstars in the league? Yeah, I'll take that.

[Quit Hatin']

nice save midnight i mean 21_dickings.

[#2!]

My comments weren't directed at you, per se, more at the constant discussions that are single-mindedly focused on individual players to the point of missing the forest for the trees.


Cool, then you shouldn't have quoted my post.

[SomeCallMeTim]

we should do a "where are they now" for the 2005-2006 lakers. I wouldn't be suprised if brian cook is selling hotdogs outside of staples. lol.

Only relevant in the context of doing a "where are they now" for other playoff teams that year.

But with that caveat I do agree with your point and it would be interesting to make that comparison with the Lakers, Suns, Spurs, Mavs, Clips, etc.

I do think it's fair to say that that season was the high water mark for some bad NBA players in Kwame, Smush, and Luke Walton.

[SomeCallMeTim]

Cool, then you shouldn't have quoted my post.

Sir, you have my most heartfelt apology.

[midnightpulp]

You keep talking about how Smush played decently, and I have no idea why.

Smush had two games you could construe as good. The rest of the series he played like hot trash and was a huge reason they lost the series.

Luke did play pretty well. But there were only two players who consistently brought it all series long: Kobe and Odom. Before then, Odom got ragged on constantly by Laker fans who complained that he shrank in big games. That series shut a lot of them up. He was fantastic. Didn't take long for people to forget (or discredit it entirely since the Lakers didn't win the series) and then he played very well against the Suns again in the 2007 postseason.

The 2006 Lakers were two phenomenal players and ten below-average NBA players. Full stop. They had the depth of a birdbath in July at every position. That they took the Suns to within a missed ORB of elimination is testament to what Phil Jackson can do with a minimal level of talent IMO.

Odom consistenly bringing would qualify as "help," would it not?

I remember when the Lakers smoked the Spurs in 01 and 02. Duncan got ZERO help. Didn't even have a legitimate second option. But I don't excuse him for not winning that series and proceed to underrate his teammates to an absurd level so I can prop him up. I understand you're not one of these types of fans, but Kobe homers, to this day, attempt to rewrite history so Kobe looks more favorable.

They still won't recognize Nash's MVP as legit, always caterwauling about the disparity between Nash and Kobe's respective supporting casts.

Truth is, Nash's cast wasn't that much better than Kobe's.

[Quit Hatin']

boris diaw, nash, marion, raja bell, amare stoudemire, tim thomas, barbosa, kurt thomas all still have jobs in the nba and their starting 5 are still starters today.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

boris diaw, nash, marion, raja bell, amare stoudemire, tim thomas, barbosa, kurt thomas all still have jobs in the nba and their starting 5 are still starters today.
:lmao Amare was injured for the entire 2006 season, did you even watch the NBA back then?

[Quit Hatin']

he was still on the team. chris mihm was supposed to be the starter for the lakers but he was injured too.

[#2!]

Sir, you have my most heartfelt apology.
:lol I like when we all loosen up a little bit.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

he was still on the team
Nice save attempt. Don't worry, no one here thought you were a pre-Gasol trade fan anyway.

[Jose Canseco]

Kobe did have some help in the form of Lamar Odom in 2006. But that's pretty much it. After Lamar, the next three best players on the Lakers against the Suns were Luke Walton, Kwame Brown, and Smush Parker. Those three as the third, fourth, and fifth best players on a playoff team. Think about that. Now, it's interesting that Matt Bonner and Keith Bogans were used as examples to compare to Smush and Kwame. In the 2006 Lakers series against the Suns, Kwame put up 13/7 and Smush put up 9/3. Last year for the Spurs in the playoffs, Bonner put up 5/3 and Bogans put up 0.6/0.8. A naive person might say well Kwame and Smush actually played well against the Suns. Ummm no. When you're relying on Kwame Brown and Smush Parker to be two of your five most productive players on the team, that's a problem. Kwame and Smush are like Bonner and Bogans in a very major way, they're all scrubs. Except with the Lakers, Kwame and Smush were asked to be better than scrubs as productive starters and key impact players, while with the Spurs, Bonner and Bogans were appropriately placed as scrub role players.

Kobe got help from Lamar, but it was pretty bad after those two. And let's not forget that now on a championship level Lakers team, Lamar is a 30 minute per game spark off the bench while in 2006, the Lakers needed him to average 45 MPG against the Suns and be the second best player for the Lakers. That's speaks volumes.

Now, while the original post talks about the contributions from a guy like Lamar Odom with his scoring and rebounding, it neglects what was truly pathetic about that 2006 Lakers team. They were playing the Suns so of course some of the Lakers were going to have decent offensive games, decent rebounding games. Just like now, back then the Suns played no defense and had no quality bigs. It's a big reason why Kwame actually had a good series. But from top to bottom on the Lakers squad in that series, no one could defend the Suns. That's where Kobe had the least amount of help. Not that Kobe was Bruce Bowen out there, but as a team, they had a defensive rating of 115. As a team. Kobe could have averaged 50 PPG in that series and the Suns could have still won because the Lakers couldn't stop the Suns.

Now that doesn't absolve Kobe from quitting in game 7. He's a bitchmade punk for that. And Lamar did help him quite a bit. And the Kobe and Lamar were playing well enough to carry the Lakers past that Suns team. They should have won that series. But the original premise of this thread is really reaching just to spew more Kobe hate and antagonize these weakass Laker fans. And it's another example of Kobe brain matter on an obsessive poster who should let it go already.

[SomeCallMeTim]

Odom consistenly bringing would qualify as "help," would it not?

I remember when the Lakers smoked the Spurs in 01 and 02. Duncan got ZERO help. Didn't even have a legitimate second option. But I don't excuse him for not winning that series and proceed to underrate his teammates to an absurd level so I can prop him up. I understand you're not one of these types of fans, but Kobe homers, to this day, attempt to rewrite history so Kobe looks more favorable.

They still won't recognize Nash's MVP as legit, always caterwauling about the disparity between Nash and Kobe's respective supporting casts.

Truth is, Nash's cast wasn't that much better than Kobe's.

Odom was great help. He and Kobe played like champs.

I think it's pretty hard to win a lot of games though with championship-level talent at two positions and below-average talent at the rest, not to mention the bench.

The Lakers got back to the Finals by getting top level talent in Gasol and Bynum's development, not to mention top role players in guys like Ariza and Artest. This year's team is like the anti-2006 Lakers... tons of depth with Kobe, Odom, Gasol, Bynum, and Barnes all above-average NBA players (mostly WAY above average) and then guys like Fisher, Blake, and Artest perfectly fitting role as players even if they are "flawed" players.

Not sure what to say about the 01 and 02 Spurs, the 01 Spurs were a great team, the Lakers were just on another level that postseason and just steamrolled SA. No shame in that, they destroyed everybody.

Nash probably wasn't the best MVP candidate in either season but he wasn't even close to the worst MVP pick of the 2000s and in any event you have to acknowledge that he was (is?) a phenomenal player.

Nash did have a better supporting cast than Kobe, mostly because of depth. Marion and Odom were about as close comps as you could find in the league - both great players - and then from 3-7 the Suns easily had better players:

Suns:
Diaw
Barbosa
Thomas
Bell
Jones

Lakers:
Kwame
Smush
George
Sasha
Walton

Drafting on talent shown in that series, I'd go

1) Diaw
2) Thomas
3) Walton
4) Bell/Kwame
6) George
7) Smush
8) Jones/Sasha

[SomeCallMeTim]

:lol I like when we all loosen up a little bit.

:toast

[BUMP]

:lmao Amare was injured for the entire 2006 season



he was still on the team.

holy shit

[SomeCallMeTim]

Kobe did have some help in the form of Lamar Odom in 2006. But that's pretty much it. After Lamar, the next three best players on the Lakers against the Suns were Luke Walton, Kwame Brown, and Smush Parker. Those three as the third, fourth, and fifth best players on a playoff team. Think about that. Now, it's interesting that Matt Bonner and Keith Bogans were used as examples to compare to Smush and Kwame. In the 2006 Lakers series against the Suns, Kwame put up 13/7 and Smush put up 9/3. Last year for the Spurs in the playoffs, Bonner put up 5/3 and Bogans put up 0.6/0.8. A naive person might say well Kwame and Smush actually played well against the Suns. Ummm no. When you're relying on Kwame Brown and Smush Parker to be two of your five most productive players on the team, that's a problem. Kwame and Smush are like Bonner and Bogans in a very major way, they're all scrubs. Except with the Lakers, Kwame and Smush were asked to be better than scrubs as productive starters and key impact players, while with the Spurs, Bonner and Bogans were appropriately placed as scrub role players.

Kobe got help from Lamar, but it was pretty bad after those two. And let's not forget that now on a championship level Lakers team, Lamar is a 30 minute per game spark off the bench while in 2006, the Lakers needed him to average 45 MPG against the Suns and be the second best player for the Lakers. That's speaks volumes.

Now, while the original post talks about the contributions from a guy like Lamar Odom with his scoring and rebounding, it neglects what was truly pathetic about that 2006 Lakers team. They were playing the Suns so of course some of the Lakers were going to have decent offensive games, decent rebounding games. Just like now, back then the Suns played no defense and had no quality bigs. It's a big reason why Kwame actually had a good series. But from top to bottom on the Lakers squad in that series, no one could defend the Suns. That's where Kobe had the least amount of help. Not that Kobe was Bruce Bowen out there, but as a team, they had a defensive rating of 115. As a team. Kobe could have averaged 50 PPG in that series and the Suns could have still won because the Lakers couldn't stop the Suns.

Now that doesn't absolve Kobe from quitting in game 7. He's a bitchmade punk for that. And Lamar did help him quite a bit. And the Kobe and Lamar were playing well enough to carry the Lakers past that Suns team. They should have won that series. But the original premise of this thread is really reaching just to spew more Kobe hate and antagonize these weakass Laker fans. And it's another example of Kobe brain matter on an obsessive poster who should let it go already.

It's impossible for me to take issue with anything you wrote here.

Well played, sir.

[BUMP]

I wonder if Quit Hatin' actually laughs at himself for being so retarded

[Quit Hatin']

bump bringing the uglys to this thread. wonder if he ever keeps things within the subject. 2005-2006 that's when bump was labeled 0 and forever.

Quit Hatin'

[SomeCallMeTim]

bump bringing the uglys to this thread. wonder if he ever keeps things within the subject. 2005-2006 that's when bump was labeled 0 and forever.

Quit Hatin'

When you're in a hole... best to stop digging.

[Dr House]

bump bringing the uglys to this thread. wonder if he ever keeps things within the subject. 2005-2006 that's when bump was labeled 0 and forever.

Quit Hatin'

:lol

Funny stuff, bro. BUMP has no idea what he's talking about. Ultimately Amare was too much for us that series. Him cheering from the bench in street clothes was just too much firepower for us to match up with.

[midnightpulp]

:lol

Funny stuff, bro. BUMP has no idea what he's talking about. Ultimately Amare was too much for us that series. Him cheering from the bench in street clothes was just too much firepower for us to match up with.

:lmao

[LkrFan]

Tim Duncan quit the Olympic team. :hat

[namlook]

Spin it all you want midnightpunkass. Kobe still has more rings than the Sp*rs entire franchise. :downspin:

:lmao

[ezau]

Tim Duncan quit the Olympic team. :hat

Kobe quit on the Lakers:toast

[Koolaid_Man]

:lmao

:lol ay Mid that Kobe shits Duncan's Legacy Post still got your shit steaming aye...:lol

Now Your Ass Is Laid Bare...I submit to ST the battle of the century...
Kool vs the whiny muthafuckers Mid, Vulva, and Ace...you'll see quite a bit in the vid below.

Notice Mid crying about Kool killing his brother (Timmy) and forcing him to shoot his boy (ICEMAN Gervin) in the back of the head, Vulva whining bout Kool breakin his nose and Ace just being the dumb mute fuck that he is. :lol

This pretty much sums it all up folks... that's it and that's all:

cLPI_p5RnR0

[DAF86]

Put Smush Parker,Kwame Brown,Maurice Evans,Brian Cook, on the Suns..and what happens?

The Suns win by forfeit.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

:lol

Funny stuff, bro. BUMP has no idea what he's talking about. Ultimately Amare was too much for us that series. Him cheering from the bench in street clothes was just too much firepower for us to match up with.
:lmao

[picc84]

I don't recall anyone saying Kobe was the only one to show up vs the Suns. Odom had a good series. Walton played alright. etc.

Despite that, the Lakers as a team weren't as good as the Suns as a team. So they lost.

So whats the point of the OP?

[RsxPiimp]

Truth is, Nash's cast wasn't that much better than Kobe's.

You were doing good but this had to come out, so now you have to start from scratch again:wakeup

[RsxPiimp]

And I dont understand why people insists on analyzing box score stats. Anyone who actually saw the series, knows Smush Parker and Kwame Brown were no asset.

[DUNCANownsKOBE2]

Kwame Brown actually played well in the series.

[TinTin]

boris diaw, nash, marion, raja bell, amare stoudemire, tim thomas, barbosa, kurt thomas all still have jobs in the nba and their starting 5 are still starters today.


:lmao Amare was injured for the entire 2006 season, did you even watch the NBA back then?


he was still on the team. chris mihm was supposed to be the starter for the lakers but he was injured too.


Nice save attempt. Don't worry, no one here thought you were a pre-Gasol trade fan anyway.


:lol

Funny stuff, bro. BUMP has no idea what he's talking about. Ultimately Amare was too much for us that series. Him cheering from the bench in street clothes was just too much firepower for us to match up with.

Oh man :wow That was just brutal. Awful damage control

[Duncan21kid]

croflmao

[midnightpulp]

All this Jordan vs. Kobe talk lately, but Jordan, never in a million years, would let Smush fuckin' Parker outplay him in an important playoff game, much less two.

[Giuseppe]

All this Jordan vs. Kobe talk lately, but Jordan, never in a million years, would let Smush fuckin' Parker outplay him in an important playoff game, much less two.

Immediately afterward he took off after Buss with a pair a pliers and a blow torch....3 years later?

Kobe: 5

Duncan: 4

just like that.

[Nathan89]

Immediately after Pau came in with a very long coat-tail....3 years later?

Kobe: 5

Duncan: 4

just like that.

[Giuseppe]

Immediately afterward he took off after Buss with a pair a pliers and a blow torch....3 years later?

Kobe: 5

Duncan: 4

just like that.

Let us proceed...

[ezau]

Let us proceed...

Viet Cong 1

Cully 0

[Giuseppe]

Viet Cong 1

Cully 0

:rolleyes

[spurraider21]

legendary thread

[Killakobe81]

I cant believe Mid of all people was placing value on Smush Parker or Kwame Brown ...

I will say this Lamar did have a good series (overall) vs. Marion who was considered a MVP candidate by some ...

Outside of that LOL

[Thebesteva]

This thread is filled with guys who dont get enough head