2010-11 San Antonio Spurs are not contenders

[history2b]

They fall into the category of "pretenders" despite the "benefit of the doubt" given to this old washed up team that manages to make the playoffs every year.

Here are the facts:

- Tim Duncan has declined too much
- Manu is an glass ankle snap away from not playing
- Parker is an overrated no defense euro chucking softie
- Richard Jefferson was the worst pick up in the summer of 09
- No elite perimeter defenders to guard the elite wings
- Tims interior defense has fallen off too much
- No real shot blocking presence on the team
- Tiago Splitter's hyped arrival ignores his massive deficiencies on defense and on the boards

Few bright spots include:

- George Hill appears to be a solid PG of the future on both ends of the floor
- Dejuan Blair could prove to be a solid energy role player off the bench
- Pop is still a great coach

Projection:

45 wins - 7th seed in the West - 1st round loss in the playoffs

[Trill Clinton]

http://i722.photobucket.com/albums/ww221/Slapaho2009/abesimpsoninout9f3d9.gif

[Giuseppe]

Splitter will transform them if he's the goods. He'll relieve the pressure across the board.

[Muser]

Can you fucksticks get some new material? DD was right.

[midnightpulp]

http://oi51.tinypic.com/2a5lqtz.jpg
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http://oi51.tinypic.com/2a5lqtz.jpg
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http://oi51.tinypic.com/2a5lqtz.jpg

[history2b]

Can you fucksticks get some new material? DD was right.


This isn't "material."

This is the reality of the 2010-11 San Antonio Spurs.

[cornbread]

The obsession continues...

[Muser]

This isn't "material."

This is the reality of the 2010-11 San Antonio Spurs.

And it's been posted 12345678987653234567898754 times before. Again, think of something new.

[Muser]

And considering Tiago was brought in as a defensive big next to Timmy your last point fails.

[history2b]

And considering Tiago was brought in as a defensive big next to Timmy your last point fails.

He was brought in for his defensive purposes? lol

Have you seen him play? Or let me guess, you read this on a Spurs hyping article and it got you all pumped up for the season and that's your insight as to how Tiago Splitter actually plays basketball?

Splitter's defensive is weak and his rebounding is subpar for a big. His strength is his ability to run a pick and roll with a guard, a few offensive moves around the rim and a knack offensive rebounding.

Defense? lol

[history2b]

Posters who deal with reality by pretending these things don't exist by spamming photos reveal their inability to counter realistic basketball points and prove to be imbeciles worth ignoring.

[Trill Clinton]

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/30/fail_thread.jpg

[z0sa]

http://i621.photobucket.com/albums/tt300/themagni/super-cool-story-bro.png

[midnightpulp]

Posters who deal with reality by pretending these things don't exist by spamming photos reveal their inability to counter realistic basketball points and prove to be imbeciles worth ignoring.

Pretending these things don't exist?

The points you made in your shitty OP have been discussed on this board ad nauseum. Anyone with an ounce of sanity understands that the Spurs aren't championship bound. I have them winning anywhere from 45 (if not healthy) to 55 games, and if they get a few lucky breaks along the way, they might sneak into the WCF.

But why should we give you a sincere reply when your topic is nothing more than a thinly veiled insult against the Spurs?

[Giuseppe]

Pretending these things don't exist?

The points you made in your shitty OP have been discussed on this board ad nauseum. Anyone with an ounce of sanity understands that the Lakers are championship bound. I have them winning anywhere from 45 to 55 games, and if they get a few lucky breaks along the way, they might sneak into the record books.

But why should we give you a sincere reply when your topic is nothing more than a thinly veiled insult against the Lakers?
:wow

[Cocaine]

history2b your one of the few ppl in this forum who speaks with the truth here and for that I respect you.

[history2b]

Pretending these things don't exist?

The points you made in your shitty OP have been discussed on this board ad nauseum. Anyone with an ounce of sanity understands that the Spurs aren't championship bound. I have them winning anywhere from 45 to 55 games, and if they get a few lucky breaks along the way, they might sneak into the WCF.

But why should we give you a sincere reply when your topic is nothing more than a thinly veiled insult against the Spurs?

If my post is accurate and these points are understood then the post would not be taken as an "insult."

Glad to see you acknowledging the facts. You may exist the thread and find a new one to spam, thanks.

[history2b]

history2b your one of the few ppl in this forum who speaks with the truth here and for that I respect you.

No worries.

Your 4 posts surely reflect a longevity on this board. Next time just name yourself "Glass" for being so transparent.

[BoricuaCJA]

Posters who deal with reality by pretending these things don't exist by spamming photos reveal their inability to counter realistic basketball points and prove to be imbeciles worth ignoring.
Why do you come to this board???

All you do is troll the whole time and its funny that your on Spurs message board. You have a HUGE obesession with your our team. Weren't you always on the ESPN Spurs forum even though your a Supposed Laker fan? Your here just to tell us we suck, ring smack, were no threat to your team but then why are you here so much? You look like your scared of our team.

[Giuseppe]

This is the NBA Board.

The Spurs Board is upstairs.

[O.J Mayo]

LMAO another faggot attention whore thread by hisucking2me.

[Cocaine]

This is the NBA Board.

The Spurs Board is upstairs.
Really? So where can I find your moms room?

[Giuseppe]

In the ground. She's been dead 10 years. Should be mighty ripe about now.

Chow!

[Ashy Larry]

This is the NBA Board.

The Spurs Board is upstairs.


lol @ basement dwellers ...... that's what we are

[Cocaine]

In the ground. She's been dead 10 years. Should be mighty ripe about now.

Chow!

Sorry to hear that, ill visit her grave "shake shake zip

[O.J Mayo]

First of all, any player is an ankle snap away from not playing. What a great rationale.

Secondly, I would like to have a "chucker" on my team that can shoot at least 50% from the field in his prime.

Thirdly, the Spurs won 50 game slast year. If you are stating that this will drop by 5 games next seaosn for no legit reason, yo are a dumbfuck Laker fag.

That's it and that's all.

[NRHector]

wow reaching koolaidman level in record time congrats!!!!!!:toast

[Jt.ONE]

2nd round exit i say

[DJB]

They fall into the category of "pretenders" despite the "benefit of the doubt" given to this old washed up team that manages to make the playoffs every year.

Here are the facts:

- Tim Duncan has declined too much
- Manu is an glass ankle snap away from not playing
- Parker is an overrated no defense euro chucking softie
- Richard Jefferson was the worst pick up in the summer of 09
- No elite perimeter defenders to guard the elite wings
- Tims interior defense has fallen off too much
- No real shot blocking presence on the team
- Tiago Splitter's hyped arrival ignores his massive deficiencies on defense and on the boards

Few bright spots include:

- George Hill appears to be a solid PG of the future on both ends of the floor
- Dejuan Blair could prove to be a solid energy role player off the bench
- Pop is still a great coach

Projection:

45 wins - 7th seed in the West - 1st round loss in the playoffs


Why are you so concerned with us, Laker fan?

[BadOdor]

Tbh most black named spur fan agree they are not contenders. Only GNSF still thinks that they are.

[xellos88330]

The arrival of Splitter will hopefully leave Pop little room to go with small ball exclusively in fourth quarters. On the defensive end, Splitter I do not think is a stellar on ball defender, but his mobility should make his 7ft frame a huge asset for help defense. From what I have seen of him (it is limited btw) he does seem to do a solid job on the pick and roll defensively. This is where the Spurs were killed last season. In order to stop it, Popovich went with smaller faster lineups which completely killed the boards, the offense, and the overall defense and flow of the game.

Most contenders are only 1 injury away from becoming pretenders. I do not think that is a valid point.

Duncan's individual defense is still pretty good, but his help defense is starting to suffer due to his mobility being limited.

Parker is an elite PG. He more often than not shoots above 50% and is usually at or near the top in PG FG% I do not classify him as a chucker.

During the preseason, what I have seen of RJ is movement with a purpose. He seems to be getting it, just not being very efficient. I still think he is the weak link if his defense doesn't improve. He is moving well and making better rotations, but his defensive judgement and reaction is still suspect.

No shot blocking is true.

No wing defenders, true.

I think that the impression of Duncan on the decline is absolute poppycock. It isn't Tim that is declining, it is his minutes. Playoffs last season when he started back up to what he used to play in the regular season, a solid 20-10 player still. I define declining is when he gets the minutes and isn't able to put up the consistent numbers he has been known for his entire career. The first season he doesn't do it will be the first of his decline or his first "bad year".

[mingus]

all i needed was '99 and '03.

going through LA this year would be gravy on gravy on gravy.

[ezau]

They fall into the category of "pretenders" despite the "benefit of the doubt" given to this old washed up team that manages to make the playoffs every year.

Here are the facts:

- Tim Duncan has declined too much
- Manu is an glass ankle snap away from not playing
- Parker is an overrated no defense euro chucking softie
- Richard Jefferson was the worst pick up in the summer of 09
- No elite perimeter defenders to guard the elite wings
- Tims interior defense has fallen off too much
- No real shot blocking presence on the team
- Tiago Splitter's hyped arrival ignores his massive deficiencies on defense and on the boards

Few bright spots include:

- George Hill appears to be a solid PG of the future on both ends of the floor
- Dejuan Blair could prove to be a solid energy role player off the bench
- Pop is still a great coach

Projection:

45 wins - 7th seed in the West - 1st round loss in the playoffs

I don't think they're real contenders right now. Hopefull, they'll achieve better cohesion and chemistry by playoff time. :toast

[Man In Black]

Now, if we talk about the current climate of the NBA, who the best players are and which teams are true contenders and those who are just pretenders we can actually get somewhere because we'll have the factual evidence of the NBA to rely on...

Let's see if you give us that factual evidence to rely on. Remember this was your quote above...the term "factual evidence."


So you wrote the following. I've taken the time to go point-by-point.


They fall into the category of "pretenders" despite the "benefit of the doubt" given to this old washed up team that manages to make the playoffs every year.

Here are the facts:

- Tim Duncan has declined too much
- Manu is an glass ankle snap away from not playing
- Parker is an overrated no defense euro chucking softie
- Richard Jefferson was the worst pick up in the summer of 09
- No elite perimeter defenders to guard the elite wings
- Tims interior defense has fallen off too much
- No real shot blocking presence on the team
- Tiago Splitter's hyped arrival ignores his massive deficiencies on defense and on the boards

Few bright spots include:

- George Hill appears to be a solid PG of the future on both ends of the floor
- Dejuan Blair could prove to be a solid energy role player off the bench
- Pop is still a great coach

Projection:

45 wins - 7th seed in the West - 1st round loss in the playoffs


Here are the facts: Technically, the factual thing to say is...Here is your OPINION.

- Tim Duncan has declined too much
By what standard? Can you give us more than just opinion? In short, what kind of factual evidence do you have that supports this hypothesis. It's gotta be more than mere observation. If you say that, then explain the following.


It of course starts with Duncan. Everything remains gradual, even his descent; there are no great ripples, no major plummet. His per game averages dipped slightly (to 18 points and 10 rebounds), but consider that he played just 31 minutes per game (the fifth straight year this his minutes have decreased) and his per-minute stats remain as healthy as ever. Age is catching him but the precision is still there – the footwork, the angles, the defensive coverage. He may not have captured fans in a way that the flashier, more marketable players did, but when you consider that of all active players only he was the best one on four title teams, he’s really the envy of them all.

So if his per minute stats are as healthy as ever, then how has he declined too much. I mean, if you want to talk about per minute stats on the decline, one only has to look at Bean. Mathematically...that is factual evidence.
Using the NBA's official stat engine, one can see a statistic called Effectiveness. In essence, it's a simple calculation. It goes like so: [(Pts+Reb+Ast+Blk+Stl) – (Missed FG+Missed FT+TO)] / Games Played. Going 1 step further, 1 can then change the divosor to Minutes Played instead of Games Played to get an Effectivess Per Minute.

It's easy math, an even though the NBA doesn't list it, we can do it here in plain sight.
Bean for 06-07 EFF Score Per Game is 27.65 * 77 Games Played = 2129 Total Score / 3142 Minutes Played = .678
Tim for 06-07 EFF Score Per Game is 25.39 * 80 Games Played = 2031 Total Score / 2728 Minutes Played = .744

Bean for 07-08 EFF Score Per Game is 26.60 * 82 Games Played = 2181 Total Score / 3193 Minutes Played = .683
Tim for 07-08 EFF Score Per Game is 24.60 * 78 Games Played = 1918 Total Score / 2653 Minutes Played = .723


Bean for 08-09 EFF Score Per Game is 24.18 * 82 Games Played = 1982 Total Score / 2965 Minutes Played = .668
Tim for 08-09 EFF Score Per Game is 24.2 * 75 Games Played = 1815 Total Score / 2525 Minutes Played = .719

Bean for 09-10 EFF Score Per Game is 22.89 * 73 Games Played = 1670 Total Score / 2835 Minutes Played = .589
Tim for 09-10 EFF Score Per Game is 23.42 * 78 Games Played = 1826 Total Score / 2438 Minutes Played = .749

It's Math aka Factual Evidence that it's Bean and Not Tim that is Declining. I await your counterpoint.


- Manu is an glass ankle snap away from not playing

Couldn't the same thing be said about Bean's oft-injured knee? What about Bynum? In essence, that can happen to anybody. But for now, Manu wasn't injured last season and comes in well rested. The same can't be said for either Bynum or Bean or even Luke Walton's back.


- Parker is an overrated no defense euro chucking softie Curious to see the factual evidence that backs this up. Provide it. He was hurt with knick-knack injuries all season starting with National Team commitments all the way until the playoffs. What's factual is that if you're hurting the whole season, then your stats will reflect that. And when you say no defense, then why is it that when Parker guarded Steve Nash that Nash played worse as opposed to him playing better when defended by noted defender, George Hill? So...prove your statement with factual evidence.


- Richard Jefferson was the worst pick up in the summer of 09 Worst among playoff teams. I'll agree. But this system is where one, normally, benefits from time and a 2nd season. It's no guarantee but improvement is a to be determined. I mean this guy ain't Vujacic, a never was, he's just a guy who didn't acclimate smoothly. Again, this one is to be determined.


- No elite perimeter defenders to guard the elite wings Singularly speaking, there isn't a Bruce Bowen on the team(The best Perimeter defender for the 2000's as evidenced by his continual placements on ALL-NBA D Team) But there are some candidates on the team who seemingly have the right tools. This part I'll defer but this too...is a to be determined.



- Tims interior defense has fallen off too much
Wrong in all sense of the word. You have to quantify this one. Opp FG% is affected just as much by the aforementioned perimeter defender AND a good 2nd big. When your 2nd big is Matt Bonner, then there is a problem. The 2nd big this year is a combo of DeJuan Blair and Tiago Splitter. Just by being physical, the Spurs have shored up the interior. Also, you can't base it off the PHX series. Gentry's plan the whole time was to switch to have the Big defend the perimeter. When that happened Duncan had too, too much ground to cover if a pass was thrown to the low post. So it's more a design scheme than Tim's physical attributes. Had Channing Frye been as nuclear hot against the LAL as he was against the Spurs, then either Pau or Bynum would have had the same issue. Alas, Frye blew his wad against the Spurs and relaxed because PHX had finally slayed their Devil.


- No real shot blocking presence on the team
I've explained that up above. It's not really about blocked shots as opposed to making the opposition take tough shots. All that will be revealed in Opp FG%. No one gives a fuck if they're team gets the most blocks if they ain't winning anything. OKC had the most Blocks Per Game by team last season at 5.9 Per Game. The Clippers finished in 3rd place at 5.7 Per Game and didn't even sniff playoffs. And while the vaunted LAL finished tied for 15th with 4.9 BPG, you make it seem as if San Antonio finished far, far below. That would be incorrect. They finished at 4.6 BPG with Bonner playing significant minutes. Both McDyess and Bonner will be playing less, while Splitter and Blair get duty to run post area with Duncan.

So...factual evidence seems to suggest you've overhyped your team's blocking capablitilies. Considering you have 3 close to or taller,7-footers who play significant minutes, whereas the Spurs went in with just Duncan at 6-11.



- Tiago Splitter's hyped arrival ignores his massive deficiencies on defense and on the boards
I'm curious about this one too. The NBA has been pining for this guy since he was 18. If he was a LAL guy, then he'd be hyped as the next White Hope but since he's coming to San Antonio, then you just assume he's no good. Typical LAL bandwagon fan logic. It reeks of Steve Blake being hyped as a GREAT defender when, in fact, he's just SLIGHTLY better than Fisher. It's an improvement true, but TP didn't have a problem going around Blake or Fisher in the past, and fully healthy, he's going to attack with infinite ease around either of those guys. But back to Splitter. What he is, is a smart player with a great understanding of Flex cut and Pick & Roll offenses. His passing ability will surpise you(Trust me...you don't know how adept a passer he is, but some say...it approaches that of Russian Legend, Arvydas Sabonis) and his ability to read and cover P & R attackers is really good. Does that amount to lots of blocks? Maybe, maybe not...but it will result in lower FG% for opponents. If you look at Luis Scola's indoctrination into the NBA, you have an approximation of what Splitter can give a team, except that he's much taller than Scola and will play in the interior more often. In the World's, A small sample true, but still one that can be referenced as factual evidence, Splitter held his own against Team USA and in the interior, he proved to be too much for the likes of Lamar Odom, Kevin Love, & Tyson Chandler.

SO...we're waiting for Factual Evidence to back up the opinions you posted. I gave you some, I await your counter with some FACTUAL EVIDENCE.

[NRHector]

Let's see if you give us that factual evidence to rely on. Remember this was your quote above...the term "factual evidence."


So you wrote the following. I've taken the time to go point-by-point.


Technically, the factual thing to say is...Here is your OPINION.

By what standard? Can you give us more than just opinion? In short, what kind of factual evidence do you have that supports this hypothesis. It's gotta be more than mere observation. If you say that, then explain the following.



So if his per minute stats are as healthy as ever, then how has he declined too much. I mean, if you want to talk about per minute stats on the decline, one only has to look at Bean. Mathematically...that is factual evidence.
Using the NBA's official stat engine, one can see a statistic called Effectiveness. In essence, it's a simple calculation. It goes like so: [(Pts+Reb+Ast+Blk+Stl) – (Missed FG+Missed FT+TO)] / Games Played. Going 1 step further, 1 can then change the divosor to Minutes Played instead of Games Played to get an Effectivess Per Minute.

It's easy math, an even though the NBA doesn't list it, we can do it here in plain sight.
Bean for 06-07 EFF Score Per Game is 27.65 * 77 Games Played = 2129 Total Score / 3142 Minutes Played = .678
Tim for 06-07 EFF Score Per Game is 25.39 * 80 Games Played = 2031 Total Score / 2728 Minutes Played = .744

Bean for 07-08 EFF Score Per Game is 26.60 * 82 Games Played = 2181 Total Score / 3193 Minutes Played = .683
Tim for 07-08 EFF Score Per Game is 24.60 * 78 Games Played = 1918 Total Score / 2653 Minutes Played = .723


Bean for 08-09 EFF Score Per Game is 24.18 * 82 Games Played = 1982 Total Score / 2965 Minutes Played = .668
Tim for 08-09 EFF Score Per Game is 24.2 * 75 Games Played = 1815 Total Score / 2525 Minutes Played = .719

Bean for 09-10 EFF Score Per Game is 22.89 * 73 Games Played = 1670 Total Score / 2835 Minutes Played = .589
Tim for 09-10 EFF Score Per Game is 23.42 * 78 Games Played = 1826 Total Score / 2438 Minutes Played = .749

It's Math aka Factual Evidence that it's Bean and Not Tim that is Declining. I await your counterpoint.


Couldn't the same thing be said about Bean's oft-injured knee? What about Bynum? In essence, that can happen to anybody. But for now, Manu wasn't injured last season and comes in well rested. The same can't be said for either Bynum or Bean or even Luke Walton's back.
Curious to see the factual evidence that backs this up. Provide it. He was hurt with knick-knack injuries all season starting with National Team commitments all the way until the playoffs. What's factual is that if you're hurting the whole season, then your stats will reflect that. And when you say no defense, then why is it that when Parker guarded Steve Nash that Nash played worse as opposed to him playing better when defended by noted defender, George Hill? So...prove your statement with factual evidence.
Worst among playoff teams. I'll agree. But this system is where one, normally, benefits from time and a 2nd season. It's no guarantee but improvement is a to be determined. I mean this guy ain't Vujacic, a never was, he's just a guy who didn't acclimate smoothly. Again, this one is to be determined.
Singularly speaking, there isn't a Bruce Bowen on the team(The best Perimeter defender for the 2000's as evidenced by his continual placements on ALL-NBA D Team) But there are some candidates on the team who seemingly have the right tools. This part I'll defer but this too...is a to be determined.


Wrong in all sense of the word. You have to quantify this one. Opp FG% is affected just as much by the aforementioned perimeter defender AND a good 2nd big. When your 2nd big is Matt Bonner, then there is a problem. The 2nd big this year is a combo of DeJuan Blair and Tiago Splitter. Just by being physical, the Spurs have shored up the interior. Also, you can't base it off the PHX series. Gentry's plan the whole time was to switch to have the Big defend the perimeter. When that happened Duncan had too, too much ground to cover if a pass was thrown to the low post. So it's more a design scheme than Tim's physical attributes. Had Channing Frye been as nuclear hot against the LAL as he was against the Spurs, then either Pau or Bynum would have had the same issue. Alas, Frye blew his wad against the Spurs and relaxed because PHX had finally slayed their Devil.

I've explained that up above. It's not really about blocked shots as opposed to making the opposition take tough shots. All that will be revealed in Opp FG%. No one gives a fuck if they're team gets the most blocks if they ain't winning anything. OKC had the most Blocks Per Game by team last season at 5.9 Per Game. The Clippers finished in 3rd place at 5.7 Per Game and didn't even sniff playoffs. And while the vaunted LAL finished tied for 15th with 4.9 BPG, you make it seem as if San Antonio finished far, far below. That would be incorrect. They finished at 4.6 BPG with Bonner playing significant minutes. Both McDyess and Bonner will be playing less, while Splitter and Blair get duty to run post area with Duncan.

So...factual evidence seems to suggest you've overhyped your team's blocking capablitilies. Considering you have 3 close to or taller,7-footers who play significant minutes, whereas the Spurs went in with just Duncan at 6-11.


I'm curious about this one too. The NBA has been pining for this guy since he was 18. If he was a LAL guy, then he'd be hyped as the next White Hope but since he's coming to San Antonio, then you just assume he's no good. Typical LAL bandwagon fan logic. It reeks of Steve Blake being hyped as a GREAT defender when, in fact, he's just SLIGHTLY better than Fisher. It's an improvement true, but TP didn't have a problem going around Blake or Fisher in the past, and fully healthy, he's going to attack with infinite ease around either of those guys. But back to Splitter. What he is, is a smart player with a great understanding of Flex cut and Pick & Roll offenses. His passing ability will surpise you(Trust me...you don't know how adept a passer he is, but some say...it approaches that of Russian Legend, Arvydas Sabonis) and his ability to read and cover P & R attackers is really good. Does that amount to lots of blocks? Maybe, maybe not...but it will result in lower FG% for opponents. If you look at Luis Scola's indoctrination into the NBA, you have an approximation of what Splitter can give a team, except that he's much taller than Scola and will play in the interior more often. In the World's, A small sample true, but still one that can be referenced as factual evidence, Splitter held his own against Team USA and in the interior, he proved to be too much for the likes of Lamar Odom, Kevin Love, & Tyson Chandler.

SO...we're waiting for Factual Evidence to back up the opinions you posted. I gave you some, I await your counter with some FACTUAL EVIDENCE.

damn:toast

[Man In Black]

Waiting for Toby to answer this with his factual evidence. Your term, not mine.
I've got opinions too but I'll wait when the real basketball talk begins. In the interim, I thought I'd add some other opinions on what some media outlets are saying about the Spurs.
Yahoo NBA has the Spurs going to the WCF.
NBA TV has the Spurs going to the WCF.
Slam Online has the Spurs going to the WCF.
Sports Illustrated has the Spurs going to the WCF.

What do they see that you CANNOT?

[Booharv]

NBA's efficiency rating is one of the most laughed at advanced stats in the apbrmetric community. I just browsed through your post but if that is what you used you probably failed.

[Roddy Beaubois]

Why are you so concerned with us, Laker fan?

This is the goods coming from you

[Man In Black]

NBA's efficiency rating is one of the most laughed at advanced stats in the apbrmetric community. I just browsed through your post but if that is what you used you probably failed.
I read the APBR stuff. I've been reading stuff like Belloti's Points Created since the early 1990's. I disagree with what you're saying but I felt the PER wasn't the choice to use as well. EFF ratings were the lesser of two evils and could easily be found as an OFFICIAL stat on the NBA.com site.

But if you're going to wow us with you statistical brilliance, what stats would YOU use? Remember, one needs to provide us with FACTUAL EVIDENCE.

Besides, everyone should know that 1 ratings isn't the tell all. It's just an indicator. The gist of it is undeniable. Per Minute Stats overall between Bean and Tim? Tim is absolutely efficient with his time on the court and is more productive.

[AussieFanKurt]

thanks for your prediction, luckily you aren't the oracle

[Giuseppe]

I'd give up my celibacy for the oracle, inbred swine withstanding.

[Man In Black]

It's the next day and still no factual evidence to back up Toby's opinion. :depressed

I wonder, is it because he has none? :rolleyes

[nkdlunch]

Well the Spurs are the last pretenders to win it all, in 2007. So I like it.

[Ashy Larry]

San Antone's run is slowly ............... Fading to Black

Q7C90sLh5Ok

[TinTin]

Tbh most black named spur fan agree they are not contenders. Only GNSF still thinks that they are.

I know I am grey

[history2b]

Let's see if you give us that factual evidence to rely on. Remember this was your quote above...the term "factual evidence."


So you wrote the following. I've taken the time to go point-by-point.


Technically, the factual thing to say is...Here is your OPINION.

Nope, those were the facts, not opinions.


By what standard? Can you give us more than just opinion? In short, what kind of factual evidence do you have that supports this hypothesis. It's gotta be more than mere observation. If you say that, then explain the following.

By NBA superstar standards, DUH. Observation is the only evidence you need and the 2010 playoffs were evidence enough of Tim Duncan's decline as a dominant player. If Tim is not dominant, the Spurs aren't contenders. A fanboy like yourself naturally will point to per minute statistics of "facts" while the reality of what took place on the floor. I'm going to guess you're the typical moron who understands basketball through the aid of a stat sheet.



So if his per minute stats are as healthy as ever, then how has he declined too much. I mean, if you want to talk about per minute stats on the decline, one only has to look at Bean. Mathematically...that is factual evidence.
Using the NBA's official stat engine, one can see a statistic called Effectiveness. In essence, it's a simple calculation. It goes like so: [(Pts+Reb+Ast+Blk+Stl) – (Missed FG+Missed FT+TO)] / Games Played. Going 1 step further, 1 can then change the divosor to Minutes Played instead of Games Played to get an Effectivess Per Minute.

It's easy math, an even though the NBA doesn't list it, we can do it here in plain sight.
Bean for 06-07 EFF Score Per Game is 27.65 * 77 Games Played = 2129 Total Score / 3142 Minutes Played = .678
Tim for 06-07 EFF Score Per Game is 25.39 * 80 Games Played = 2031 Total Score / 2728 Minutes Played = .744

Bean for 07-08 EFF Score Per Game is 26.60 * 82 Games Played = 2181 Total Score / 3193 Minutes Played = .683
Tim for 07-08 EFF Score Per Game is 24.60 * 78 Games Played = 1918 Total Score / 2653 Minutes Played = .723


Bean for 08-09 EFF Score Per Game is 24.18 * 82 Games Played = 1982 Total Score / 2965 Minutes Played = .668
Tim for 08-09 EFF Score Per Game is 24.2 * 75 Games Played = 1815 Total Score / 2525 Minutes Played = .719

Bean for 09-10 EFF Score Per Game is 22.89 * 73 Games Played = 1670 Total Score / 2835 Minutes Played = .589
Tim for 09-10 EFF Score Per Game is 23.42 * 78 Games Played = 1826 Total Score / 2438 Minutes Played = .749

It's Math aka Factual Evidence that it's Bean and Not Tim that is Declining. I await your counterpoint.

I was right! You are a run of the mill stat moron! I had an inking of hope you wouldn't be this dumb, I suppose because I am in constant search of a worthy adversary, but it is what it is.

Using these moronic irrelevant formulas to break down the game will never be apart of my language. Effing efficiency ratings, lol. When will the idiots ever learn?

How did you manage to measure the intangibles of the game with your efficiency breakdown? Heart, hustle, clutch, defense? A rebound collected in the 1st quarter is the same as a clutch board made on a crucial defensive stance in the 4th quarter? Same with shots made, steals, blocks, assists, etc etc. How are these important distinctions separated in your "efficiency statistics?"

And defense? How are proper defensive elements measured? When a player successfully cuts off a driving player or alters a shot just enough to cause a miss, how is this taken into account? What about defensive rotations that are made or failed to be made fast enough? How do we determine if players are playing the game "the right way?" How do we weigh making the most important plays of the game versus just run of the mill plays? It can't be done. It won't be done. The game is too complex and their are way too many intangibles to ever put the game in its entirety into mathematical context.

Stats are a useful, limited guide but any time anyone starts rationalizing in stat geek I immediately understand their brain's limitation on the game.


Couldn't the same thing be said about Bean's oft-injured knee? What about Bynum? In essence, that can happen to anybody. But for now, Manu wasn't injured last season and comes in well rested. The same can't be said for either Bynum or Bean or even Luke Walton's back.

Bean's oft injured knee hasn't caused him to miss big chunks of the season and Bean plays through the pain well enough to win championships. Manu's hang nail re-appears and he's back on the pine for weeks while Spurs fans resurrect the slew of excuses for why they'd really win if Manu had played. If I had a nickel every time a Spurs fan cried excuses about a Manu injury...

And Bynum is injury prone.... how has that inhibited the Lakers success?

Cool Luke Walton comment, a player who has absolutely no impact on winning or losing... You realize I picked Manu for a reason and not say, Matt Bonner, right?


Curious to see the factual evidence that backs this up. Provide it. He was hurt with knick-knack injuries all season starting with National Team commitments all the way until the playoffs. What's factual is that if you're hurting the whole season, then your stats will reflect that. And when you say no defense, then why is it that when Parker guarded Steve Nash that Nash played worse as opposed to him playing better when defended by noted defender, George Hill? So...prove your statement with factual evidence.

I called him:

soft - Are you suggesting he's tough?
euro - Is he African because he's black?
chucker - is he a distributing PG or a scoring PG?
no defense - because he plays horrendous man to man defense and has incredibly poor defensive instincts. Funny that you'd point to a single game where he played seemingly effective defense on Steve Nash, despite the Suns winning. Is Parker now a better defender than Hill based on this one game in your objective, non-homeristic eyes?


Worst among playoff teams. I'll agree. But this system is where one, normally, benefits from time and a 2nd season. It's no guarantee but improvement is a to be determined. I mean this guy ain't Vujacic, a never was, he's just a guy who didn't acclimate smoothly. Again, this one is to be determined.

Vujacic sucks, doesn't bother me one bit to admit that because I am not a homer moron who needs to justify everything for my team. Moreover critical thinking forces me to acknowledge that Vujacic's role and impact on the Lakers is not the same as what Jefferson's was expected to be.

When SA acquired RJ I laughed, literally. I mocked Spurs fans on that other board for months and I was told this meant I was now "scared of the revitalized Spurs" and that he now made them "the best Spurs team of the Duncan era" among a great many other things. You have to understand how much I relish in pointing out this miserable failure by the Spurs FO compounded by the worst contract extention I've seen many years.

It's been determined pal; it is a complete and utter failure that will only get worse over the next 4 years.



Singularly speaking, there isn't a Bruce Bowen on the team(The best Perimeter defender for the 2000's as evidenced by his continual placements on ALL-NBA D Team) But there are some candidates on the team who seemingly have the right tools. This part I'll defer but this too...is a to be determined.

Singularly speaking huh? Lol. No, sorry, there isn't one player on the Spurs roster who comes close to offering the defensive ability of Bruce Bowen, collectively or "singularly." That's a gaping hole in the Spurs roster and it will be exploited when it comes time to compete.



Wrong in all sense of the word. You have to quantify this one. Opp FG% is affected just as much by the aforementioned perimeter defender AND a good 2nd big. When your 2nd big is Matt Bonner, then there is a problem. The 2nd big this year is a combo of DeJuan Blair and Tiago Splitter. Just by being physical, the Spurs have shored up the interior. Also, you can't base it off the PHX series. Gentry's plan the whole time was to switch to have the Big defend the perimeter. When that happened Duncan had too, too much ground to cover if a pass was thrown to the low post. So it's more a design scheme than Tim's physical attributes. Had Channing Frye been as nuclear hot against the LAL as he was against the Spurs, then either Pau or Bynum would have had the same issue. Alas, Frye blew his wad against the Spurs and relaxed because PHX had finally slayed their Devil.

WRONG. You do NOT have to quantify this. You watch how he plays the game. You observe if he effectively rotates to the right position as quickly and successfully as he did say 7 years ago when he was one of the best in the league at doing just that.

"Just being physical" does not protect the paint. Dejuan Blair is strong but stupid and cannot rotate and block shots on an elite level. Neither can Tiago Splitter who's defense is subpar as well. He has some potential to improve but I wouldn't put money on him becoming a "defensive presence."

But getting back to Tim who is no longer a 1st team all NBA / DPOY type player as evidenced by the NBA's voting and recognition this past season and the Phoenix Suns series where unknown back up PG Goran Dragic literally shredded the once vaunted Spurs interior defense anchored by Timothy Duncan.


I've explained that up above. It's not really about blocked shots as opposed to making the opposition take tough shots. All that will be revealed in Opp FG%. No one gives a fuck if they're team gets the most blocks if they ain't winning anything. OKC had the most Blocks Per Game by team last season at 5.9 Per Game. The Clippers finished in 3rd place at 5.7 Per Game and didn't even sniff playoffs. And while the vaunted LAL finished tied for 15th with 4.9 BPG, you make it seem as if San Antonio finished far, far below. That would be incorrect. They finished at 4.6 BPG with Bonner playing significant minutes. Both McDyess and Bonner will be playing less, while Splitter and Blair get duty to run post area with Duncan.

No, you rationalized like Spurs fanboy. Blocked shots are not necessarily the end all be all of interior defense but every elite team needs the threat a lane protector in order to establish elite team defense. Tim had been that guy for years but he no longer protects the paint with the same authority. Not only have his blocks gone down but so have his altered shots. It happens to everyone as they get old; you just aren't as fast on your feet.


So...factual evidence seems to suggest you've overhyped your team's blocking capablitilies. Considering you have 3 close to or taller,7-footers who play significant minutes, whereas the Spurs went in with just Duncan at 6-11.

Nope, not at all. The Lakers play elite defense. See the 2010 NBA playoffs as evidence. If you were rational minded you'd acknowledge that fact before you proclaimed anything to the contrary.



I'm curious about this one too. The NBA has been pining for this guy since he was 18. If he was a LAL guy, then he'd be hyped as the next White Hope but since he's coming to San Antonio, then you just assume he's no good. Typical LAL bandwagon fan logic. It reeks of Steve Blake being hyped as a GREAT defender when, in fact, he's just SLIGHTLY better than Fisher. It's an improvement true, but TP didn't have a problem going around Blake or Fisher in the past, and fully healthy, he's going to attack with infinite ease around either of those guys. But back to Splitter. What he is, is a smart player with a great understanding of Flex cut and Pick & Roll offenses. His passing ability will surpise you(Trust me...you don't know how adept a passer he is, but some say...it approaches that of Russian Legend, Arvydas Sabonis) and his ability to read and cover P & R attackers is really good. Does that amount to lots of blocks? Maybe, maybe not...but it will result in lower FG% for opponents. If you look at Luis Scola's indoctrination into the NBA, you have an approximation of what Splitter can give a team, except that he's much taller than Scola and will play in the interior more often. In the World's, A small sample true, but still one that can be referenced as factual evidence, Splitter held his own against Team USA and in the interior, he proved to be too much for the likes of Lamar Odom, Kevin Love, & Tyson Chandler.


Really? That's your poor woe is me, we're San Antonio not LA violin playing? lol

Please. If you can break down the game based on observation you can determine what you need to know about any player. I've seen Tiago play and he's ok. He's not a game changer but he can be a contributor if he picks up the NBA game and fits in with his teammates. That in a nutshell will be how his season will play out. His passing ability is solid... Sabonis-level? lol Uhh, no. Funny that you've "heard" it could be at that level.

If you've seen him play you wouldn't have to "hear" anything. Just another example of overzealous fanboy hype via the internet.

[history2b]

Let's see if you give us that factual evidence to rely on. Remember this was your quote above...the term "factual evidence."


So you wrote the following. I've taken the time to go point-by-point.


Technically, the factual thing to say is...Here is your OPINION.

Nope, those were the facts, not opinions.


By what standard? Can you give us more than just opinion? In short, what kind of factual evidence do you have that supports this hypothesis. It's gotta be more than mere observation. If you say that, then explain the following.

By NBA superstar standards, DUH. Observation is the only evidence you need and the 2010 playoffs were evidence enough of Tim Duncan's decline as a dominant player. If Tim is not dominant, the Spurs aren't contenders. A fanboy like yourself naturally will point to per minute statistics of "facts" while ignoring the reality of what took place on the floor. I'm going to guess you're the typical moron who understands basketball through the aid of a stat sheet.



So if his per minute stats are as healthy as ever, then how has he declined too much. I mean, if you want to talk about per minute stats on the decline, one only has to look at Bean. Mathematically...that is factual evidence.
Using the NBA's official stat engine, one can see a statistic called Effectiveness. In essence, it's a simple calculation. It goes like so: [(Pts+Reb+Ast+Blk+Stl) – (Missed FG+Missed FT+TO)] / Games Played. Going 1 step further, 1 can then change the divosor to Minutes Played instead of Games Played to get an Effectivess Per Minute.

It's easy math, an even though the NBA doesn't list it, we can do it here in plain sight.
Bean for 06-07 EFF Score Per Game is 27.65 * 77 Games Played = 2129 Total Score / 3142 Minutes Played = .678
Tim for 06-07 EFF Score Per Game is 25.39 * 80 Games Played = 2031 Total Score / 2728 Minutes Played = .744

Bean for 07-08 EFF Score Per Game is 26.60 * 82 Games Played = 2181 Total Score / 3193 Minutes Played = .683
Tim for 07-08 EFF Score Per Game is 24.60 * 78 Games Played = 1918 Total Score / 2653 Minutes Played = .723


Bean for 08-09 EFF Score Per Game is 24.18 * 82 Games Played = 1982 Total Score / 2965 Minutes Played = .668
Tim for 08-09 EFF Score Per Game is 24.2 * 75 Games Played = 1815 Total Score / 2525 Minutes Played = .719

Bean for 09-10 EFF Score Per Game is 22.89 * 73 Games Played = 1670 Total Score / 2835 Minutes Played = .589
Tim for 09-10 EFF Score Per Game is 23.42 * 78 Games Played = 1826 Total Score / 2438 Minutes Played = .749

It's Math aka Factual Evidence that it's Bean and Not Tim that is Declining. I await your counterpoint.

I was right! You are a run of the mill stat moron! I had an inkling of hope you wouldn't be this dumb, I suppose because I am in constant search of a worthy adversary, but it is what it is.

Using these moronic irrelevant formulas to break down the game will never be apart of my language. Effing efficiency ratings, lol. When will the idiots ever learn?

How did you manage to measure the intangibles of the game with your efficiency breakdown? Heart, hustle, clutch, defense? A rebound collected in the 1st quarter is the same as a clutch board made on a crucial defensive stance in the 4th quarter? Same with shots made, steals, blocks, assists, etc etc. How are these important distinctions separated in your "efficiency statistics?"

And defense? How are proper defensive elements measured? When a player successfully cuts off a driving player or alters a shot just enough to cause a miss, how is this taken into account? What about defensive rotations that are made or failed to be made fast enough? How do we determine if players are playing the game "the right way?" How do we weigh making the most important plays of the game versus just run of the mill plays? It can't be done. It won't be done. The game is too complex and their are way too many intangibles to ever put the game in its entirety into mathematical context.

Stats are a useful, limited guide but any time anyone starts rationalizing in stat geek I immediately understand their brain's limitation on the game.


Couldn't the same thing be said about Bean's oft-injured knee? What about Bynum? In essence, that can happen to anybody. But for now, Manu wasn't injured last season and comes in well rested. The same can't be said for either Bynum or Bean or even Luke Walton's back.

Bean's oft injured knee hasn't caused him to miss big chunks of the season and Bean plays through the pain well enough to win championships. Manu's hang nail re-appears and he's back on the pine for weeks while Spurs fans resurrect the slew of excuses for why they'd really win if Manu had played. If I had a nickel every time a Spurs fan cried excuses about a Manu injury...

And Bynum is injury prone.... how has that inhibited the Lakers success?

Cool Luke Walton comment, a player who has absolutely no impact on winning or losing... You realize I picked Manu for a reason and not say, Matt Bonner, right?


Curious to see the factual evidence that backs this up. Provide it. He was hurt with knick-knack injuries all season starting with National Team commitments all the way until the playoffs. What's factual is that if you're hurting the whole season, then your stats will reflect that. And when you say no defense, then why is it that when Parker guarded Steve Nash that Nash played worse as opposed to him playing better when defended by noted defender, George Hill? So...prove your statement with factual evidence.

I called him:

soft - Are you suggesting he's tough?
euro - Is he African because he's black?
chucker - is he a distributing PG or a scoring PG?
no defense - because he plays horrendous man to man defense and has incredibly poor defensive instincts. Funny that you'd point to a single game where he played seemingly effective defense on Steve Nash, despite the Suns winning. Is Parker now a better defender than Hill based on this one game in your objective, non-homeristic eyes?


Worst among playoff teams. I'll agree. But this system is where one, normally, benefits from time and a 2nd season. It's no guarantee but improvement is a to be determined. I mean this guy ain't Vujacic, a never was, he's just a guy who didn't acclimate smoothly. Again, this one is to be determined.

Vujacic sucks, doesn't bother me one bit to admit that because I am not a homer moron who needs to justify everything for my team. Moreover critical thinking forces me to acknowledge that Vujacic's role and impact on the Lakers is not the same as what Jefferson's was expected to be.

When SA acquired RJ I laughed, literally. I mocked Spurs fans on that other board for months and I was told this meant I was now "scared of the revitalized Spurs" and that he now made them "the best Spurs team of the Duncan era" among a great many other things. You have to understand how much I relish in pointing out this miserable failure by the Spurs FO compounded by the worst contract extention I've seen many years.

It's been determined pal; it is a complete and utter failure that will only get worse over the next 4 years.



Singularly speaking, there isn't a Bruce Bowen on the team(The best Perimeter defender for the 2000's as evidenced by his continual placements on ALL-NBA D Team) But there are some candidates on the team who seemingly have the right tools. This part I'll defer but this too...is a to be determined.

Singularly speaking huh? Lol. No, sorry, there isn't one player on the Spurs roster who comes close to offering the defensive ability of Bruce Bowen, collectively or "singularly." That's a gaping hole in the Spurs roster and it will be exploited when it comes time to compete.



Wrong in all sense of the word. You have to quantify this one. Opp FG% is affected just as much by the aforementioned perimeter defender AND a good 2nd big. When your 2nd big is Matt Bonner, then there is a problem. The 2nd big this year is a combo of DeJuan Blair and Tiago Splitter. Just by being physical, the Spurs have shored up the interior. Also, you can't base it off the PHX series. Gentry's plan the whole time was to switch to have the Big defend the perimeter. When that happened Duncan had too, too much ground to cover if a pass was thrown to the low post. So it's more a design scheme than Tim's physical attributes. Had Channing Frye been as nuclear hot against the LAL as he was against the Spurs, then either Pau or Bynum would have had the same issue. Alas, Frye blew his wad against the Spurs and relaxed because PHX had finally slayed their Devil.

WRONG. You do NOT have to quantify this. You watch how he plays the game. You observe if he effectively rotates to the right position as quickly and successfully as he did say 7 years ago when he was one of the best in the league at doing just that.

"Just being physical" does not protect the paint. Dejuan Blair is strong but stupid and cannot rotate and block shots on an elite level. Neither can Tiago Splitter who's defense is subpar as well. He has some potential to improve but I wouldn't put money on him becoming a "defensive presence."

But getting back to Tim who is no longer a 1st team all NBA / DPOY type player as evidenced by the NBA's voting and recognition this past season and the Phoenix Suns series where unknown back up PG Goran Dragic literally shredded the once vaunted Spurs interior defense anchored by Timothy Duncan.


I've explained that up above. It's not really about blocked shots as opposed to making the opposition take tough shots. All that will be revealed in Opp FG%. No one gives a fuck if they're team gets the most blocks if they ain't winning anything. OKC had the most Blocks Per Game by team last season at 5.9 Per Game. The Clippers finished in 3rd place at 5.7 Per Game and didn't even sniff playoffs. And while the vaunted LAL finished tied for 15th with 4.9 BPG, you make it seem as if San Antonio finished far, far below. That would be incorrect. They finished at 4.6 BPG with Bonner playing significant minutes. Both McDyess and Bonner will be playing less, while Splitter and Blair get duty to run post area with Duncan.

No, you rationalized like Spurs fanboy. Blocked shots are not necessarily the end all be all of interior defense but every elite team needs the threat a lane protector in order to establish elite team defense. Tim had been that guy for years but he no longer protects the paint with the same authority. Not only have his blocks gone down but so have his altered shots. It happens to everyone as they get old; you just aren't as fast on your feet.


So...factual evidence seems to suggest you've overhyped your team's blocking capablitilies. Considering you have 3 close to or taller,7-footers who play significant minutes, whereas the Spurs went in with just Duncan at 6-11.

Nope, not at all. The Lakers play elite defense. See the 2010 NBA playoffs as evidence. If you were rational minded you'd acknowledge that fact before you proclaimed anything to the contrary.



I'm curious about this one too. The NBA has been pining for this guy since he was 18. If he was a LAL guy, then he'd be hyped as the next White Hope but since he's coming to San Antonio, then you just assume he's no good. Typical LAL bandwagon fan logic. It reeks of Steve Blake being hyped as a GREAT defender when, in fact, he's just SLIGHTLY better than Fisher. It's an improvement true, but TP didn't have a problem going around Blake or Fisher in the past, and fully healthy, he's going to attack with infinite ease around either of those guys. But back to Splitter. What he is, is a smart player with a great understanding of Flex cut and Pick & Roll offenses. His passing ability will surpise you(Trust me...you don't know how adept a passer he is, but some say...it approaches that of Russian Legend, Arvydas Sabonis) and his ability to read and cover P & R attackers is really good. Does that amount to lots of blocks? Maybe, maybe not...but it will result in lower FG% for opponents. If you look at Luis Scola's indoctrination into the NBA, you have an approximation of what Splitter can give a team, except that he's much taller than Scola and will play in the interior more often. In the World's, A small sample true, but still one that can be referenced as factual evidence, Splitter held his own against Team USA and in the interior, he proved to be too much for the likes of Lamar Odom, Kevin Love, & Tyson Chandler.


Really? That's your poor woe is me, we're San Antonio not LA violin playing? lol

Please. If you can break down the game based on observation you can determine what you need to know about any player. I've seen Tiago play and he's ok. He's not a game changer but he can be a contributor if he picks up the NBA game and fits in with his teammates. That in a nutshell will be how his season will play out. His passing ability is solid... Sabonis-level? lol Uhh, no. Funny that you've "heard" it could be at that level.

If you've seen him play you wouldn't have to "hear" anything. Just another example of overzealous fanboy hype via the internet.

All in all, we're still in agreement the Spurs are not championship contenders this year though.

[Man In Black]

Dude...such harsh aggression. So it's all about observation for you and just that.

Observation without measurement doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

Riddle me this Toby...Would you say that the Lakers beat the Celtics dominatingly or did they just get by on the skin of their teeth?

YOU SAID FACTUAL EVIDENCE. Observation alone, is not factual evidence. So...call me a stat guy but I observe too, but again, without measurement it don't mean shit.

You may believe you're superior but in reality, you're just another JAFO bu hey...I'm willing to talk ANYTIME as long as the context stays on basketball.

[history2b]

Dude...such harsh aggression. So it's all about observation for you and just that.

Observation without measurement doesn't amount to a hill of beans.

Riddle me this Toby...Would you say that the Lakers beat the Celtics dominatingly or did they just get by on the skin of their teeth?

YOU SAID FACTUAL EVIDENCE. Observation alone, is not factual evidence. So...call me a stat guy but I observe too, but again, without measurement it don't mean shit.

You may believe you're superior but in reality, you're just another JAFO bu hey...I'm willing to talk ANYTIME as long as the context stays on basketball.

Do coaches observe their team when coaching or do they go into the stat room looking a statisitical efficiency ratings while the game is going on?

The measurement is on court success, lol. And again you completely ignore the vast majority of the game if you're waiting for "factual evidence" of things that cannot be measured in the first place.

How is Bruce Bowen the best defender of the 2000s? Was it just magic?

[Ditty]

wow you really take the nba too serious brah do you have anything seriously better to do to write an whole essay jeez its a game?

[history2b]

wow you really take the nba too serious brah do you have anything seriously better to do to write an whole essay jeez its a game?

Don't blame me that you don't understand the game on the same level bro.

Anyone can be a stat chimp.

[Giuseppe]

Crucify 'em, 2b. Get a holt of 'em by the nap of the neck and drag 'em, tree of woe.

[Donkeybong]

I think the OP hit a nerve

[history2b]

I think the OP hit a nerve

Damn straight I did. The thick headed will always think they can fight back but the truth is that reality is a motherfucker and it only makes you look more and more stupid if you continue to fight it.

All I'm doing right now is planting seeds. These aren't even the trees yet that I intend to tend to throughout the season. It'll be fun.

[z0sa]

:lmao the only seed planted is your front running post-Gasol Lakerfanhood.

Without your precious lakers you wouldn't step foot in this forum or any other one. You bring absolutely nothing to the table, which is why you pussied out upstairs after you got pwned and came down here.

Luckily you have cully or you'd have been gone as quick as tbone.

[history2b]

:lmao the only seed planted is your front running post-Gasol Lakerfanhood.

Without your precious lakers you wouldn't step foot in this forum or any other one. You bring absolutely nothing to the table, which is why you pussied out upstairs after you got pwned and came down here.

Luckily you have cully or you'd have been gone as quick as tbone.

Do you understand how the rules work around here moron?

I posted for 1 week on the Spurs forum and was banned immediately. Too much vaginas got hurt.

This is why an idiot such as yourself talks trash senselessly and erroneously using words like "pwned" because that's all you can do. I think it's hilarious watch you get angry.

[Man In Black]

Do coaches observe their team when coaching or do they go into the stat room looking a statisitical efficiency ratings while the game is going on?

The measurement is on court success, lol. And again you completely ignore the vast majority of the game if you're waiting for "factual evidence" of things that cannot be measured in the first place.

How is Bruce Bowen the best defender of the 2000s? Was it just magic?

Both, at least for the Spurs they do. Those assistants in the back just ain't watching. They're looking at the numbers as well as gameflow. On the court success is essentially winning. We both agree on that.

Bowen was the best defender based on both effort and physicality. His continual placements were due to his hard nosed play, his willingness to fight on everything. His long arms were a pain to deal with and his reputation as someone who made the league's premier scorers cry with disdain. All of that showed up as lowered effectiveness ratings for those scorers.

LAL has The LOB, I Get that. I'm looking at how the LAL is starting the season and I note that they aren't healthy to start. I think that that puts them in a bad spot and ultimately, they get defeated. So no 3peat.

[Man In Black]

Nope, those were the facts, not opinions.

Nope...they're hypotheses. So technically, they're opinons. The fact will bear out this season at the end.


By NBA superstar standards, DUH. Observation is the only evidence you need and the 2010 playoffs were evidence enough of Tim Duncan's decline as a dominant player. If Tim is not dominant, the Spurs aren't contenders. A fanboy like yourself naturally will point to per minute statistics of "facts" while the reality of what took place on the floor. I'm going to guess you're the typical moron who understands basketball through the aid of a stat sheet. You've guessed wrong. But what exactly are Superstar standards to you? To me and host of APBR people, it's stats where a player is .650 or better. So, if you're using your standard of observation, what bears it out? When it gets down to it...It'll be stats. Bean wouldn't amount to anything if his statistical box score was like Vujacic. It's his impact statistically that carries his worth. So again, observation without measurement MEANS NOTHING.


How did you manage to measure the intangibles of the game with your efficiency breakdown? Heart, hustle, clutch, defense? A rebound collected in the 1st quarter is the same as a clutch board made on a crucial defensive stance in the 4th quarter? Same with shots made, steals, blocks, assists, etc etc. How are these important distinctions separated in your "efficiency statistics?"
The stat is an official stat by the NBA. I only used one stat because truthfully, all that that you ask for, is readily available for you on 82games.com I'll give you link if you ask for one.


And defense? How are proper defensive elements measured? When a player successfully cuts off a driving player or alters a shot just enough to cause a miss, how is this taken into account? What about defensive rotations that are made or failed to be made fast enough? How do we determine if players are playing the game "the right way?" How do we weigh making the most important plays of the game versus just run of the mill plays? It can't be done. It won't be done. The game is too complex and their are way too many intangibles to ever put the game in its entirety into mathematical context. The stat needed here is called boxscore defense. That's observation with statistics in which each play where a primary subject batles against another. Every output observed, measured, and then quanitified. To simplify it, one could tell if the opposition's defense was good using the aforementioned effectiveness rating. Say Bean goes for .675 on average, but when he goes against the Spurs, then you look at Bean's game per minute. If his rating was .575, then you have evidence that what the Spurs did had in effect, lowered his output. I could say it was the way they bodied him up, they clutched and hip-checked him whenever they got the chance and slapped down on his hands while he was shooting but there isn't a way to quantify those particular acts, only their results as in fouls, which may or may not result in points for Bean, missed shots, or steals.

Stats are a useful, limited guide.. You said this not me.

My brain uses both observation and statistics. I don't feel limited in any way. Maybe you disregard them because they don't always validate what you see? I see them for what they are...effective measurement that needs to be re-tested and measured again for success.

Bean's oft injured knee hasn't caused him to miss big chunks of the season and Bean plays through the pain well enough to win championships. Manu's hang nail re-appears and he's back on the pine for weeks while Spurs fans resurrect the slew of excuses for why they'd really win if Manu had played.
Pure folly on your part. A) Manu didn't have hang nail and B) he wasn't on the pine for weeks at a time for the season. See...your opinion isn't factual evidence. The guy played 75 games last season and didn't miss "weeks" of play throughout the season. Try again.

Tim had been that guy for years but he no longer protects the paint with the same authority. Not only have his blocks gone down but so have his altered shots.
How would you know that if you didn't use statistics? But again, his numbers are as solid as ever, it's because he plays less, he doesn't accumulate as much. The same thing happened to one Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Solid player till the end, still effective but played less minutes.

[z0sa]

Do you understand how the rules work around here moron?

I posted for 1 week on the Spurs forum and was banned immediately. Too much vaginas got hurt.

This is why an idiot such as yourself talks trash senselessly and erroneously using words like "pwned" because that's all you can do. I think it's hilarious watch you get angry.

Do you understand what the word pwned means? Getting banned for being an idiot is called "being pwned", idiot. :lmao

And I'm quite glad you're set on staying and "planting those seeds". It'll be nice digging em up later.

[history2b]

Do you understand what the word pwned means? Getting banned for being an idiot is called "being pwned", idiot. :lmao

And I'm quite glad you're set on staying and "planting those seeds". It'll be nice digging em up later.


So did I give up on the Spurs forum or did I get banned? I need you to clarify just how stupid you are...

[z0sa]

So did I give up on the Spurs forum or did I get banned? I need you to clarify just how stupid you are...

Did you get destroyed and banned, or not? I need you to clarify what being pwned means.

[history2b]

Nope...they're hypotheses. So technically, they're opinons. The fact will bear out this season at the end.

They're not opinions if they are true. And last season proved everything to be true. Sorry, they're facts with or without your consent.


You've guessed wrong. But what exactly are Superstar standards to you? To me and host of APBR people, it's stats where a player is .650 or better. So, if you're using your standard of observation, what bears it out? When it gets down to it...It'll be stats. Bean wouldn't amount to anything if his statistical box score was like Vujacic. It's his impact statistically that carries his worth. So again, observation without measurement MEANS NOTHING.

I'll tell you this it's not what APBR people say statistically, lol. Statistics can support what you observe but they they do not take the place of observation. When the coaches vote for the all-defensive team what is their unit of measure? Are you telling me it is advanced stats? lol. Idiot.

Your little catch phrase of observation without measurement means nothing until you define every facet of the game as a tangible unit of measure. Since you can't your entire premise is based on a fallacy.



The stat is an official stat by the NBA. I only used one stat because truthfully, all that that you ask for, is readily available for you on 82games.com I'll give you link if you ask for one.

Don't need it, I'm familiar with the site, an irrelevant one and one that idiotic stat worship fanboys regularly inhabit. Do you think Bill Russell or John Wooden goes there to check efficiency stats?


The stat needed here is called boxscore defense. That's observation with statistics in which each play where a primary subject batles against another. Every output observed, measured, and then quanitified. To simplify it, one could tell if the opposition's defense was good using the aforementioned effectiveness rating. Say Bean goes for .675 on average, but when he goes against the Spurs, then you look at Bean's game per minute. If his rating was .575, then you have evidence that what the Spurs did had in effect, lowered his output. I could say it was the way they bodied him up, they clutched and hip-checked him whenever they got the chance and slapped down on his hands while he was shooting but there isn't a way to quantify those particular acts, only their results as in fouls, which may or may not result in points for Bean, missed shots, or steals.
You said this not me.

That's not accurate. "Every output observed, measured and then quantified" is 100% FALSE. Measured and then quantified, sure, but not observed.

But following this statistic crap for insight is unreliable because it actively ignores realities that cannot be measured. Bean's rating can be good or bad with or without good defense. For example, he can be hip checked and commendably defended by a player and still be successful scoring wise which would translate to bad defense and that would be inaccurate. Obviously it works the other way around too.

Still does not take into account whether players are rotating effectively, whether individual players are correctly reading the offense or putting forth the appropriate effort.

The Dallas Mavericks idiotically tried to employ advanced stats over actual coaching back in 2007 when they played the Warriors. That mistake burned Avery and that was unfortunate because he was a good coach.


My brain uses both observation and statistics. I don't feel limited in any way. Maybe you disregard them because they don't always validate what you see? I see them for what they are...effective measurement that needs to be re-tested and measured again for success.

Bullshit. I know stat boys and you're a stat boy. I know the type as I've had them working for me in the past. I sit on the bench actively observing everything, managing the team based on what I see which is entirely based on what I know and how I want things to play out and guys like you sit there making little marks on a clipboard.

Observing a players decision making, understanding their psychology and specifically why they elected to do what they did at any given moment is a greater insight than any stupid little collection of numbers you put together at the end of the day. This is how the game is effective taught to individuals.


Pure folly on your part. A) Manu didn't have hang nail and B) he wasn't on the pine for weeks at a time for the season. See...your opinion isn't factual evidence. The guy played 75 games last season and didn't miss "weeks" of play throughout the season. Try again.

I didn't say he was on the pine for weeks this past season. I said he was a glass ankle snap away from being on the pine again. It appears that you don't read too well.

But it's nice to see you've backed off the Luke Walton comment... how stupid was that?


How would you know that if you didn't use statistics? But again, his numbers are as solid as ever, it's because he plays less, he doesn't accumulate as much. The same thing happened to one Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Solid player till the end, still effective but played less minutes.

Solid player till the end is not the same as being a superstar. Moreover there is no comparison whatsoever between Kareem and Duncan. None. Kareem was on a level Duncan dreams about. Kareem helped win a title at age 38, 40 and 41. He was the Finals MVP dominating a great Celtics team at age 38!

Tim's only 34 and he's getting abused by the lowly Phoenix Suns, lol. Channing FREAKING Frye? Are you kidding me? Goran Dragic?

I mean, did you watch your team in the playoffs this year or do you just look at the stat reports after the fact?? Don't answer, as I already know which one it was.

[Ditty]

Don't blame me that you don't understand the game on the same level bro.

Anyone can be a stat chimp.

Well I don't have the time to read all the facts, and revolve stats around 24/7 proving anything you say doesn't mean shit because spurs, and lakers will still make it to the playoffs, and lakers have won there share of champions, and lakers are the team to beat this year but aren't the most talented now. That's all to it everything is in the past and we can't tell what will happen in the future, who cares do something better besides try to piss off spurs fans every fan can be delusional jeez. I thought cully's 75 posts per day stat was bad

[Man In Black]

Toby man...you make me laugh.
How can something be measured, and quantified without Observation? It's the very basis of scientific theory. :lmao

When a player makes a bad decision upon observation, that gets noted. It gets acted upon immediately true, but that mistake is a statistic all it's own.

As for Phoenix last season? Have the LAL ever lost a series due to a bad matchup?
Yeah they have. When the Spurs closed the Forum down would qualify. Magic's last appearance in the Finals and I'll add Houston beating LAL with Sampson & Olajuwon.
Statistically, Dragic, Frye, & Dudley played above their statistical output. Since they didn't duplicate their efforts against LAL, then the series tilted LA. Technically, it tilted all the way when Artest made that follow-up basket for the W.

We can talk without stats. I don't have a problem with them. You do, so if you want to just talk basketball terms, I can do that too. What else you got?

[history2b]

Toby man...you make me laugh.
How can something be measured, and quantified without Observation? It's the very basis of scientific theory. :lmao

When a player makes a bad decision upon observation, that gets noted. It gets acted upon immediately true, but that mistake is a statistic all it's own.

As for Phoenix last season? Have the LAL ever lost a series due to a bad matchup?
Yeah they have. When the Spurs closed the Forum down would qualify. Magic's last appearance in the Finals and I'll add Houston beating LAL with Sampson & Olajuwon.
Statistically, Dragic, Frye, & Dudley played above their statistical output. Since they didn't duplicate their efforts against LAL, then the series tilted LA. Technically, it tilted all the way when Artest made that follow-up basket for the W.

We can talk without stats. I don't have a problem with them. You do, so if you want to just talk basketball terms, I can do that too. What else you got?

That's because you omitted the word "Every." "Every observation" is not measured and quantified. Certain things are but not "every" one. That is what was inaccurate. And no, the statistic isn't necessarily recorded with every mistake. A player can botch an assignment defensively but still get bailed out by the botched play of the offensive player for example. Pure fallacy.

And now Phoenix was a bad match up, lol? The team you guys beat year after year? Lol. Wow. Amazing. Any time you lose couldn't it be rationalized to be a "bad match up?"

OKC was a bad match up for LA and they won. They certainly didn't get swept. Do you understand the significance of a sweep? It wasn't close. It wasn't a "could go either way" type situation, it was a lop sided domination by a team that was superior to what ended up being a "pretender" team just like they will be this year.

[history2b]

In the future talk to me like you're talking to Gregg Popovich or Dean Smith (or the like). Before you go stat geek chimp, just think, "would Pop give a shit about this?"

[z0sa]

In the future talk to me like you're talking to Gregg Popovich or Dean Smith (or the like).

bwahahahaahahahaha

sig worthy

[Giuseppe]

In the future talk to me like you're talking to Gregg Popovich or Dean Smith (or the like). Before you go stat geek chimp, just think, "would Pop give a shit about this?"

Smith is far away now. He has Alzheimer's.

[crc21209]

"They see me trollin', they hatin'..."

[Man In Black]

You and I both know that teams rarely stay fully constant with personnel year-after-year. Even the LAL made changes despite the 2-peat. Kicking PHX in the gonads all those years forced them to make a myriad of adjustments including their coach. In short, they had to bring in an ex-Spur Assistant Coach in Alvin Gentry, to get past the Spurs. I will say that the Spurs made far too many errors like missed easy tip-ins and uncertainty and indecision made a series that on observation, looked like San Antonio was playing well, but in results, was a 4-0 Series vicro. The mistakes that Pop wants minimized were not and that forced the Spurs to try to play perfect ball the rest of the way. When they couldn't, that compounded the mistakes...it made the sweep much easier.

[history2b]

You and I both know that teams rarely stay fully constant with personnel year-after-year. Even the LAL made changes despite the 2-peat. Kicking PHX in the gonads all those years forced them to make a myriad of adjustments including their coach. In short, they had to bring in an ex-Spur Assistant Coach in Alvin Gentry, to get past the Spurs. I will say that the Spurs made far too many errors like missed easy tip-ins and uncertainty and indecision made a series that on observation, looked like San Antonio was playing well, but in results, was a 4-0 Series vicro. The mistakes that Pop wants minimized were not and that forced the Spurs to try to play perfect ball the rest of the way. When they couldn't, that compounded the mistakes...it made the sweep much easier.

Same core team, certainly not much better than they were in 2005, 06 or 07 thoroughly dismantled an aged, tired, defensively inferior Spurs team led by an declined Tim Duncan who had little to no impact on the series.

It was a sign of the times.

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

Same core team, certainly not much better than they were in 2005, 06 or 07 thoroughly dismantled an aged, tired, defensively inferior Spurs team led by an declined Tim Duncan who had little to no impact on the series.

It was a sign of the times.

Since you don't know many of the posters here, I'll tell you about me. I have been watching the NBA since about 1960 and always cheer on whatever western team plays in the finals. So, I am a bandwagon fan X 10000.

21 rings, faggot: Lakers 11, Spurs 4, Rockets 2, Bucks, Warriors, Blazers, Sonics 1 each.

I get branded as Lakers fan and do have a soft spot for them for all their suffering in the 1960's. But I like the Spurs, Mavs, Rockets, Suns, etc. as well.

I think you're a little off base here calling the Spurs done. Yes, they are getting older but they do have a core with championship experience.

One of the reasons the Suns beat the Spurs was the revenge factor. If you didn't notice, the 2010 playoffs had many examples, and you can't ignore revenge as motif. Sometimes teams can do it, sometimes they can't. Here's the other revenge wins last season:

Celtics over Magic for 2009
Spurs over Mavs for 2009
Lakers over Suns for 2006 and 2007
Lakers over Celtics for 2008.

Looking back at 2010, the Spurs seemed done most of the season. Then later on, they gelled. They won at home against both Cleveland and Orlando, and crushed the Lakers and Celtics in their house. A lot of Spurs fans were calling for the 8th seed figuring they had to go through the Lakers at some point, get them early while they were struggling.

When the playoffs started in April, few people expected a Lakers vs. Celtics finals. Many thought neither would make it. Had San Antonio gotten to the finals, I believe they would have beaten Boston.

You can't call a team with championship experience done, you just can't. Want to know the most impressive thing about the Russell Era Celtics? It wasn't their first 8 titles, they were expected to win those. It was their last 3, from 1966 to 1969. They weren't the favorite in those. They lost to Wilt's Sixers in 1967, but beat them twice w/o HCA in 1966 and 1968. They won all 3 playoff series in 1969 w/o HCA as well. Maybe you noticed the comparison between the 1969 and 2010 Celtics?

Even as the Showtime Lakers aged, they were contending. If Worthy doesn't go down in the 1991 finals, or Magic have to retire that fall, maybe they beat the Bulls. At least they would have had a shot.

You may call the Spurs non-contenders when #21 retires. San Antonio, like Boston, has gone "All in".

[Man In Black]

It took a whole different coach for PHX, which in turn resulted in a change in defensive mindset. PHX changed out a lot from those years you listed outside of Stoudamire and Nash, the rest of what one would term core went elsewhere. Let's list it as the following:
Nash, Stoudamire, Barbosa, Raja Bell, & Boris Diaw with Mike D'Antoni as Coach.
Nash, Stoudamire, Barbosa were there for 2010. Jason Richardson played very well and Frye, offensively, was lights out from the 3 point line, for that series alone.

You and I differ on the impact Duncan has defensively. I'll agree that he's slipped some but not to the degree you have him at. With a physical 7 footer next to him, I expect that both blocks and Opp FG% for the Spurs will go in the right direction.

Curiously, out of 6 Pro Scouts that SI is using for their NBA issue. They have the Spurs finishing Top 4 in the conference. Going further, 2 out of the 6 have them meeting the LAL in the WCF's and 1 of the 6 has the Spurs winning out. I agree more with that than your 6th place prediction.

[z0sa]

You may call the Spurs non-contenders when #21 retires. San Antonio, like Boston, has gone "All in".

I think this is the general feeling of most Spurfans. Although it is agreed the Spurs will make the playoffs (which could be considered a bit of a gamble in itself), by and large, we agree our outlook is most likely a semifinals, or even first round loss.

Yet should the right pieces fall into place . . there's a chance. Not a big one, but if they can gel and stay healthy at the right time, I am still confident in this team. Tim's still one of the best big men in the NBA, on both ends. If he can get the support he needs: Parker playing in 2009 form, Manu healthy, Splitter acclimated to the faster-paced NBA game; these and more are all things that could make the Spurs a formidable opponent, that also have at least a reasonable chance of occurring.

Only time will tell. This is definitely one of our last years being labeled a contender just because of our core. Maybe our last. Still think Tim and co. could do it.

[tbonewalker]

They fall into the category of "pretenders" despite the "benefit of the doubt" given to this old washed up team that manages to make the playoffs every year.

Here are the facts:

- Tim Duncan has declined too much
- Manu is an glass ankle snap away from not playing
- Parker is an overrated no defense euro chucking softie
- Richard Jefferson was the worst pick up in the summer of 09
- No elite perimeter defenders to guard the elite wings
- Tims interior defense has fallen off too much
- No real shot blocking presence on the team
- Tiago Splitter's hyped arrival ignores his massive deficiencies on defense and on the boards

Few bright spots include:

- George Hill appears to be a solid PG of the future on both ends of the floor
- Dejuan Blair could prove to be a solid energy role player off the bench
- Pop is still a great coach

Projection:

45 wins - 7th seed in the West - 1st round loss in the playoffs


I agree. Spurs have way too many boo-boo's that won't be fixed any time this season. They have too many holes and won't be finding the multiple cogs to fill those holes any time soon.

They are the true definition of a 'Pretender' and definitely not a dark horse.

[history2b]

I agree. Spurs have way too many boo-boo's that won't be fixed any time this season. They have too many holes and won't be finding the multiple cogs to fill those holes any time soon.

They are the true definition of a 'Pretender' and definitely not a dark horse.


Agreed.

What I don't understand the level of unfounded arrogance Spurs fans continue to have despite this reality though.

[ChumpDumper]

Why is this such an obsession with you?

[z0sa]

lol @ this obsession with the Spurs

[history2b]

Why is this such an obsession with you?


I'm a truth teller. I can't stand people who live in a disillusioned state.

[z0sa]

I'm a truth teller. I can't stand people who live in a disillusioned state.

Considering how disillusioned you are, you must live your life in an extremely butthurt state.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm a truth teller. I can't stand people who live in a disillusioned state.You can't stand yourself then.

You need to give yourself a stern talking to.

[history2b]

Considering how disillusioned you are, you must live your life in an extremely butthurt state.

Says the fish that just can't get the hook out of his mouth.:fishing

[history2b]

You can't stand yourself then.

You need to give yourself a stern talking to.


:soapbox:

[z0sa]

Says the fish that just can't get the hook out of his mouth.:fishing

This thread is about making people face their fears and discussing important basketball stuff.

[history2b]

This thread is about making people face their fears and discussing important basketball stuff.


No the other thread was. :fishing:fishing

[z0sa]

No the other thread was. :fishing:fishing

So this thread is not an important basketball discussion.

You say so yourself.

I agree and ask you to stop wasting your time on such irrelevancy.

BTW, you need to take a debate course. One can never prove a negative; as hard you try, you can never succeed. :lol

[SomeCallMeTim]

I'm a truth teller. I can't stand people who live in a disillusioned state.

That word, I do not think it means what you think it means.

[SomeCallMeTim]

I've been saying it for a while: I think the Spurs will sneak up on people this year. They're supposed to be "done." Could be. I don't think so. Duncan's decline is overblown... he's still a force. So's Manu. I agree that they are both relatively high risk for injury but trust that Pop will manage them wisely to mitigate that. Blair is a big help already. I think Parker is due to bounce back a bit and even if he doesn't he's not a black hole, just average. Splitter looks to me like he could offer substantial help, too.

Would not be surprised at all for them to be pushing the Lakers for #1 seed much of the season. I expect LA to win it in the end but I don't think SA just gets left in the dust.

[O.J Mayo]

LMAO hisdildo2b can't start threads.

[NRHector]

LMAO hisdildo2b can't start threads.:lol

[Leonard Curse]

Do coaches observe their team when coaching or do they go into the stat room looking a statisitical efficiency ratings while the game is going on?

The measurement is on court success, lol. And again you completely ignore the vast majority of the game if you're waiting for "factual evidence" of things that cannot be measured in the first place.

How is Bruce Bowen the best defender of the 2000s? Was it just magic?


so you believe kobes in better off shape then manu ginobili ??? dude couldnt even dunk the ball poor corpse ok so kobe coming in with his 3rd? knee surgery? is better than manus full season of health? youre a bum with a low IQ.

pau gasol carried the lakers, and even at 34 duncan is averaging the same rebound stats as gasol, thats pretty pathetic and let me guess this isnt weak rebounding but when splitter comes in and avrg's the same amount hes soft am i correct?

so lets see parker & tiago have weak D, well then you guys are definitely F'd because the way he man hanled " the NBA's most versatile Pf" in odom is bad news for the lakers and thats because tiago was playing injured. odom pretty much bent over and didnt even challenge tiago. so again ill say parkers D isnt great but for you to open your mouth when you have 36yrold pg!!! lmao by the way isnt odom going to be your starting PF? its clear that you follow the spurs everymove everyday!?!?! the big three are healthy history 2b and kobe is fading faster than you think, if hes not able to make those clutch shots this season your seeding will be very different from last year think about that.

i agree our weakness is our defense and if that doesnt change neither does our story. your ball club doesnt do too hot when they have bad starts and so i hope your "star" can reach the rim soon, i hope bynum will be healthy at least half a season (hasnt happened yet)lol i hope derek fisher can hang with an uninjured tony parker this year lol.

btw i watched a total of 20hrs/real film on tiago splitter and without a doubt i can tell you the spurs wont be afraid to take on the lakers this year. hes a great defender w/out getting in foul trbl and hes able to guard the 3 pt threat/ PF and come back in time to guard a driving Sg/or pick and roll .

many league scouts have said he could very well be the best at it once he plays in the nba!!! thats everyday euroball where he comes from and we can now leave timmy down low and have our twin towers back. you know damn well the spurs are going to match up well w/u!!
may the best big men win you dumb bitch

[ezau]

Good thing the NBA season is about to start so we won't have to deal with these stupid threads again.

[ElNono]

LMAO hisdildo2b can't start threads.

:lmao

He got regulated... happens to everyone on the NBA Forums at some point...

[Daddy_Of_All_Trolls]

history2B: You never replied to this post:


Since you don\'t know many of the posters here, I\'ll tell you about me. I have been watching the NBA since about 1960 and always cheer on whatever western team plays in the finals. So, I am a bandwagon fan X 10000.

21 rings, faggot: Lakers 11, Spurs 4, Rockets 2, Bucks, Warriors, Blazers, Sonics 1 each.

I get branded as Lakers fan and do have a soft spot for them for all their suffering in the 1960\'s. But I like the Spurs, Mavs, Rockets, Suns, etc. as well.

I think you\'re a little off base here calling the Spurs done. Yes, they are getting older but they do have a core with championship experience.

One of the reasons the Suns beat the Spurs was the revenge factor. If you didn\'t notice, the 2010 playoffs had many examples, and you can\'t ignore revenge as motif. Sometimes teams can do it, sometimes they can\'t. Here\'s the other revenge wins last season:

Celtics over Magic for 2009
Spurs over Mavs for 2009
Lakers over Suns for 2006 and 2007
Lakers over Celtics for 2008.

Looking back at 2010, the Spurs seemed done most of the season. Then later on, they gelled. They won at home against both Cleveland and Orlando, and crushed the Lakers and Celtics in their house. A lot of Spurs fans were calling for the 8th seed figuring they had to go through the Lakers at some point, get them early while they were struggling.

When the playoffs started in April, few people expected a Lakers vs. Celtics finals. Many thought neither would make it. Had San Antonio gotten to the finals, I believe they would have beaten Boston.

You can\'t call a team with championship experience done, you just can\'t. Want to know the most impressive thing about the Russell Era Celtics? It wasn\'t their first 8 titles, they were expected to win those. It was their last 3, from 1966 to 1969. They weren\'t the favorite in those. They lost to Wilt\'s Sixers in 1967, but beat them twice w/o HCA in 1966 and 1968. They won all 3 playoff series in 1969 w/o HCA as well. Maybe you noticed the comparison between the 1969 and 2010 Celtics?

Even as the Showtime Lakers aged, they were contending. If Worthy doesn\'t go down in the 1991 finals, or Magic have to retire that fall, maybe they beat the Bulls. At least they would have had a shot.

You may call the Spurs non-contenders when #21 retires. San Antonio, like Boston, has gone \"All in\".

Your \"Fact\" that the \"Spurs are done\" has been refuted with historical fact; Teams with champiobship experience can\'t be written off as \"Done\" until they break up the core of their team. It is nothing more than your opinion. Maybe you should change your name to

historyneeds2BelearnedbymebeforeIshootmymouthoffag ainandgetownedbyeveryone.

[history2b]

history2B: You never replied to this post:



Your \"Fact\" that the \"Spurs are done\" has been refuted with historical fact; Teams with champiobship experience can\'t be written off as \"Done\" until they break up the core of their team. It is nothing more than your opinion. Maybe you should change your name to

historyneeds2BelearnedbymebeforeIshootmymouthoffag ainandgetownedbyeveryone.

Lol, of course they can be written off and labeled "done." If they can't beat the powerhouse of the conference, then they are "done."

And the Spurs can't beat the Lakers in a 7 game series.

[Giuseppe]

2b, showin' up, gettin' his defiant on.

Bully, 2b, bully for you.

[history2b]

2b, showin' up, gettin' his defiant on.

Bully, 2b, bully for you.


I'm just a realist who detests delusion.

[Giuseppe]

You & Ren are my heroes.

[lefty]

Spurs are done.



Close this thread

[TinTin]

You can't stand yourself then.

You need to give yourself a stern talking to.


LMAO hisdildo2b can't start threads.

:lmao

[history2b]

I happen to think that the Spurs not being contenders is a lot funnier than me not being able to start a thread on a pathetic message board filled with delusional Spurs cronies who would like the crap off Tim Duncan's ass after each dump he takes.

[ohmwrecker]

Lol, of course they can be written off and labeled "done." If they can't beat the powerhouse of the conference, then they are "done."

And the Spurs can't beat the Lakers in a 7 game series.


Mavs
Rockets
Grizzlies
Hornets
Spurs

Make up your mind, retard.

[TinTin]

I happen to think that the Spurs not being contenders is a lot funnier than me not being able to start a thread on a pathetic message board filled with delusional Spurs cronies who would like the crap off Tim Duncan's ass after each dump he takes.

:lmao

After seeing lakaluva and other people troll then you, I appreciate how hard it is to be a good troll

[ChumpDumper]

I happen to think that the Spurs not being contenders is a lot funnier than me not being able to start a thread on a pathetic message board filled with delusional Spurs cronies who would like the crap off Tim Duncan's ass after each dump he takes.It's so pathetic you can't stop posting on it.

That's funny.

[Chris Fall]

Spurs have an outside shot tbh the Lakers will decline this year, particularly Kobe

[tbonewalker]

Nope, those were the facts, not opinions.



By NBA superstar standards, DUH. Observation is the only evidence you need and the 2010 playoffs were evidence enough of Tim Duncan's decline as a dominant player. If Tim is not dominant, the Spurs aren't contenders. A fanboy like yourself naturally will point to per minute statistics of "facts" while the reality of what took place on the floor. I'm going to guess you're the typical moron who understands basketball through the aid of a stat sheet.




I was right! You are a run of the mill stat moron! I had an inking of hope you wouldn't be this dumb, I suppose because I am in constant search of a worthy adversary, but it is what it is.

Using these moronic irrelevant formulas to break down the game will never be apart of my language. Effing efficiency ratings, lol. When will the idiots ever learn?

How did you manage to measure the intangibles of the game with your efficiency breakdown? Heart, hustle, clutch, defense? A rebound collected in the 1st quarter is the same as a clutch board made on a crucial defensive stance in the 4th quarter? Same with shots made, steals, blocks, assists, etc etc. How are these important distinctions separated in your "efficiency statistics?"

And defense? How are proper defensive elements measured? When a player successfully cuts off a driving player or alters a shot just enough to cause a miss, how is this taken into account? What about defensive rotations that are made or failed to be made fast enough? How do we determine if players are playing the game "the right way?" How do we weigh making the most important plays of the game versus just run of the mill plays? It can't be done. It won't be done. The game is too complex and their are way too many intangibles to ever put the game in its entirety into mathematical context.

Stats are a useful, limited guide but any time anyone starts rationalizing in stat geek I immediately understand their brain's limitation on the game.



Bean's oft injured knee hasn't caused him to miss big chunks of the season and Bean plays through the pain well enough to win championships. Manu's hang nail re-appears and he's back on the pine for weeks while Spurs fans resurrect the slew of excuses for why they'd really win if Manu had played. If I had a nickel every time a Spurs fan cried excuses about a Manu injury...

And Bynum is injury prone.... how has that inhibited the Lakers success?

Cool Luke Walton comment, a player who has absolutely no impact on winning or losing... You realize I picked Manu for a reason and not say, Matt Bonner, right?



I called him:

soft - Are you suggesting he's tough?
euro - Is he African because he's black?
chucker - is he a distributing PG or a scoring PG?
no defense - because he plays horrendous man to man defense and has incredibly poor defensive instincts. Funny that you'd point to a single game where he played seemingly effective defense on Steve Nash, despite the Suns winning. Is Parker now a better defender than Hill based on this one game in your objective, non-homeristic eyes?



Vujacic sucks, doesn't bother me one bit to admit that because I am not a homer moron who needs to justify everything for my team. Moreover critical thinking forces me to acknowledge that Vujacic's role and impact on the Lakers is not the same as what Jefferson's was expected to be.

When SA acquired RJ I laughed, literally. I mocked Spurs fans on that other board for months and I was told this meant I was now "scared of the revitalized Spurs" and that he now made them "the best Spurs team of the Duncan era" among a great many other things. You have to understand how much I relish in pointing out this miserable failure by the Spurs FO compounded by the worst contract extention I've seen many years.

It's been determined pal; it is a complete and utter failure that will only get worse over the next 4 years.




Singularly speaking huh? Lol. No, sorry, there isn't one player on the Spurs roster who comes close to offering the defensive ability of Bruce Bowen, collectively or "singularly." That's a gaping hole in the Spurs roster and it will be exploited when it comes time to compete.




WRONG. You do NOT have to quantify this. You watch how he plays the game. You observe if he effectively rotates to the right position as quickly and successfully as he did say 7 years ago when he was one of the best in the league at doing just that.

"Just being physical" does not protect the paint. Dejuan Blair is strong but stupid and cannot rotate and block shots on an elite level. Neither can Tiago Splitter who's defense is subpar as well. He has some potential to improve but I wouldn't put money on him becoming a "defensive presence."

But getting back to Tim who is no longer a 1st team all NBA / DPOY type player as evidenced by the NBA's voting and recognition this past season and the Phoenix Suns series where unknown back up PG Goran Dragic literally shredded the once vaunted Spurs interior defense anchored by Timothy Duncan.



No, you rationalized like Spurs fanboy. Blocked shots are not necessarily the end all be all of interior defense but every elite team needs the threat a lane protector in order to establish elite team defense. Tim had been that guy for years but he no longer protects the paint with the same authority. Not only have his blocks gone down but so have his altered shots. It happens to everyone as they get old; you just aren't as fast on your feet.



Nope, not at all. The Lakers play elite defense. See the 2010 NBA playoffs as evidence. If you were rational minded you'd acknowledge that fact before you proclaimed anything to the contrary.





Really? That's your poor woe is me, we're San Antonio not LA violin playing? lol

Please. If you can break down the game based on observation you can determine what you need to know about any player. I've seen Tiago play and he's ok. He's not a game changer but he can be a contributor if he picks up the NBA game and fits in with his teammates. That in a nutshell will be how his season will play out. His passing ability is solid... Sabonis-level? lol Uhh, no. Funny that you've "heard" it could be at that level.

If you've seen him play you wouldn't have to "hear" anything. Just another example of overzealous fanboy hype via the internet.


Best post I've seen from anybody anywhere on this entire forum.

HISTORY2B IN DA HOOUSE!!

[Trainwreck2100]

I happen to think that the Spurs not being contenders is a lot funnier than me not being able to start a thread on a pathetic message board filled with delusional Spurs cronies who would like the crap off Tim Duncan's ass after each dump he takes.

and yet here you are

[#41 Shoot Em Up]

They fall into the category of "pretenders" despite the "benefit of the doubt" given to this old washed up team that manages to make the playoffs every year.

Here are the facts:

- Tim Duncan has declined too much
- Manu is an glass ankle snap away from not playing
- Parker is an overrated no defense euro chucking softie
- Richard Jefferson was the worst pick up in the summer of 09
- No elite perimeter defenders to guard the elite wings
- Tims interior defense has fallen off too much
- No real shot blocking presence on the team
- Tiago Splitter's hyped arrival ignores his massive deficiencies on defense and on the boards

Few bright spots include:

- George Hill appears to be a solid PG of the future on both ends of the floor
- Dejuan Blair could prove to be a solid energy role player off the bench
- Pop is still a great coach

Projection:

45 wins - 7th seed in the West - 1st round loss in the playoffs


They are the next dynasty in the making with the GREAT TIAGO "OLAJUWON" SPLITTER. :lmao

[history2b]

They are the next dynasty in the making with the GREAT TIAGO "OLAJUWON" SPLITTER. :lmao


yeah, didn't you hear? Tiago is the best defender / rebounder in europe and I've heard his passing skills are on the level of Arvydas Sabonis!!

Shine up that #5 trophy cause here we come!!

[z0sa]

lol butthurt

[history2b]

lol butthurt


lol stalker.

[z0sa]

lol stalker.

lol posting on a public forum yet imagining people stalk you.

You really need to inquire about those meds.

[history2b]

lol posting on a public forum yet imagining people stalk you.

You really need to inquire about those meds.


lol, sorry, I meant man stalker.

[ChumpDumper]

lol posting on a message board he calls pathetic.

[history2b]

http://media.techtarget.com/digitalguide/images/Misc/sdef_definition.gif - Cyberstalking is a crime in which the attacker harasses a victim using electronic communication, such as email or instant messaging (IM), or messages posted to a Web site or a discussion group. A cyberstalker relies upon the anonymity afforded by the Internet to allow them to stalk their victim without being detected. Cyberstalking messages differ from ordinary spam in that a cyberstalker targets a specific victim with often threatening messages, while the spammer targets a multitude of recipients with simply annoying messages.



Be sure to read the whole thing thoroughly before replying with another idiotic stalker-inspired response man lover.

[history2b]

lol posting on a message board he calls pathetic.


It's called slumming it.

[z0sa]

:lmao you gonna call the Cyber Police? maybe backtrace it?

[ChumpDumper]

It's called slumming it.lol slumming it every day means you are a slumdweller.

lol ESPN boards.

[history2b]

:lmao you gonna call the Cyber Police? maybe backtrace it?


I'm not going to call anyone, lol. I'll give you my home address if you'd like.

But again, I'm a truth teller and you are a cyber stalker. That is exactly what you are doing. At first you tried to deny it but now that you see the legal definition you are no longer denying it but rather electing to say "what are you going to do tell on me?"

Lol @ the anonymous man stalker.

[Man In Black]

I thought you were back to talking basketball? You need a new game plan because the wow us with your lack of basketball intellect plan is CLEARLY not working.

So you're an asshole with an opinion.
You could be right, but WHAT IF YOU'RE WRONG? Be prepared to reap what you sow.
The LAL ain't getting that 3peat, unless of course, the collusion is in play...then...is it really earned, or given?

It's time to play ball!!!! Let's see what happens. Phil's stroke of 3's end starting this evening...you just don't know it yet :hat

[ChumpDumper]

http://media.techtarget.com/digitalguide/images/Misc/sdef_definition.gif - Cyberstalking is a crime in which the attacker harasses a victim using electronic communication, such as email or instant messaging (IM), or messages posted to a Web site or a discussion group. A cyberstalker relies upon the anonymity afforded by the Internet to allow them to stalk their victim without being detected. Cyberstalking messages differ from ordinary spam in that a cyberstalker targets a specific victim with often threatening messages, while the spammer targets a multitude of recipients with simply annoying messages.



Be sure to read the whole thing thoroughly before replying with another idiotic stalker-inspired response man lover.Sorry you feel so threatened and scared.

[history2b]

lol slumming it every day means you are a slumdweller.

lol ESPN boards.

I'm not here every day.

The ESPN boards are in pretty poor shape these days but they are still far away better than this shithole. The largest congregation of pussified fans in one setting.

[DeadlyDynasty]

I thought you were back to talking basketball? You need a new game plan because the wow us with your lack of basketball intellect plan is CLEARLY not working.

So you're an asshole with an opinion.
You could be right, but WHAT IF YOU'RE WRONG? Be prepared to reap what you sow.
The LAL ain't getting that 3peat, unless of course, the collusion is in play...then...is it really earned, or given?

It's time to play ball!!!! Let's see what happens. Phil's stroke of 3's end starting this evening...you just don't know it yet :hat

wishful thinking ftw

[ChumpDumper]

I'm not here every day.

The ESPN boards are in pretty poor shape these days but they are still far away better than this shithole. The largest congregation of pussified fans in one setting.Which is why you post here hundreds of times. :lmao

[history2b]

Sorry you feel so threatened and scared.


That is what you deducted from the message.

Wow, Spurs fans. Going back to school to complete your GED is still an option you know.

[ChumpDumper]

That is what you deducted from the message.

Wow, Spurs fans. Going back to school to complete your GED is still an option you know.So you don't feel threatened?

[z0sa]

I'm not going to call anyone, lol. I'll give you my home address if you'd like.

:lmao you are so asshurt right now

[history2b]

I thought you were back to talking basketball? You need a new game plan because the wow us with your lack of basketball intellect plan is CLEARLY not working.

So you're an asshole with an opinion.
You could be right, but WHAT IF YOU'RE WRONG? Be prepared to reap what you sow.
The LAL ain't getting that 3peat, unless of course, the collusion is in play...then...is it really earned, or given?

It's time to play ball!!!! Let's see what happens. Phil's stroke of 3's end starting this evening...you just don't know it yet :hat


What's up stat boy? Do you have your advanced stat sheets out and ready for tonight in order to collect your data for tonight?

lol, but what if I'm wrong...

Talking about collusion and "earned" vs "given" horseshit like the dumbshit fanboy that you are. Get back in your seat and keep your mouth shut when grown folks are talking.

Keep your mind on how your irrelevant team needs another 1997 ping pong ball miracle to occur again in order to a shot at ever achieving any level of success again while I sip my champagne tonight will toasting to ring number 16.

[history2b]

:lmao you are so asshurt right now

Says the man stalker.

[ChumpDumper]

lol thinking he actually won a ring.

[history2b]

So you don't feel threatened?


You should just change your name to ChumpDumber.

[z0sa]

Says the man stalker.

do you usually give out your home address to people you consider stalkers?

that might explain why you're so asshurt all the time.

[ChumpDumper]

You should just change your name to ChumpDumber.You didn't answer the question.

Do you feel threatened?

Yes or no.

[history2b]

lol thinking he actually won a ring.


Another example of ChumpDumber's unparalleled reading comprehension deficiencies.

Have you ever considered going back to school? Seriously?

[history2b]

You didn't answer the question.

Do you feel threatened?

Yes or no.


Did you suck 2 cocks or 3 cocks last night?

[ChumpDumper]

do you usually give out your home address to people you consider stalkers?

that might explain why you're so asshurt all the time.Literally :bking

[ElNono]

lol can't start threads

[history2b]

do you usually give out your home address to people you consider stalkers?

that might explain why you're so asshurt all the time.

To cyber pussies who are all talk over the internet? I'd be willing to do it.

[ChumpDumper]

Did you suck 2 cocks or 3 cocks last night?None.

Do you feel threatened by z0sa?

[history2b]

lol can't start threads


lol can't think of anything else to say but state the obvious... The resident simpleton chimes in.

[history2b]

None.

Do you feel threatened by z0sa?

2 or 3 which one was it?

[DeadlyDynasty]

blood in the water...need to head to shore h2b

[z0sa]

To cyber pussies who are all talk over the internet? I'd be willing to do it.

You wouldn't post your address in this thread. Why? You're all talk and a humongous cyber pussy.

[ChumpDumper]

2 or 3 which one was it?It was none.

Why do you feel threatened by z0sa?

It was your definition.

You claim to be the victim of cyberstalking.

That means z0sa threatened you.

How did z0sa threaten you?

[history2b]

You wouldn't post your address in this thread. Why? You're all talk and a humongous cyber pussy.

I didn't say in this thread.

[history2b]

It was none.

Why do you feel threatened by z0sa?

It was your definition.

You claim to be the victim of cyberstalking.

That means z0sa threatened you.

How did z0sa threaten you?



None was not one of the options I gave you.

[ElNono]

lol can't think of anything else to say but state the obvious... The resident simpleton chimes in.

lol simpleton can't start threads...

[ChumpDumper]

lol afraid to give out his address after he said he would.

[z0sa]

So you admit you're all talk and a cyber pussy. Let's just say I'm not terribly surprised.

[ChumpDumper]

None was not one of the options I gave you.Why do you want to give me options of sucking dick along with your address?

Lonely?

[ChumpDumper]

So you admit you're all talk and a cyber pussy. Let's just say I'm not terribly surprised.Dude, ease up. He's totally threatened by you.

[history2b]

lol simpleton can't start threads...


No people who fat pussies find threatening get restricted.

Morons like yourself could start a thread but no one would care because it would have been written by a simpleton.

[z0sa]

Why do you want to give me options of sucking dick along with your address?

Lonely?

It gets lonely in the asylum at night. He's lucky he worked a deal selling painkillers to the janitor or he'd never have internet access.

[ChumpDumper]

No people who fat pussies find threatening get restricted.You just said you are the one who feels threatened.

[history2b]

So you admit you're all talk and a cyber pussy. Let's just say I'm not terribly surprised.

So you're saying that the only way I could give it you is in this thread?

My god you guys are stupid.

Did you all make a pact to be as stupid as possible once pledging your allegiance to the Spurs?

[ChumpDumper]

So you're saying that the only way I could give it you is in this thread?So, how are you giving him your address to invite him into your home after asking other men about sucking dick?

[history2b]

Why do you want to give me options of sucking dick along with your address?

Lonely?


Didn't give you the option of either. I offered my address to z0sa not you.

So how many was it Chump? 2 or 3? I'm guessing 3.

[z0sa]

Dude, ease up. He's totally threatened by you.

:lmao

[history2b]

So, how are you giving him your address to invite him into your home after asking other men about sucking dick?


No, you and him are two separate entities.

He's an all talk cyber stalker and you're just a cock sucker.

[ChumpDumper]

Didn't give you the option of either. I offered my address to z0sa not you.Does he have your address yet?

[history2b]

:lmao

ahhh, no longer denying that what you are doing is legally cyber stalking?

that was quick.

[ChumpDumper]

No, you and him are two separate entities.

He's an all talk cyber stalker and you're just a cock sucker.Eh, you feel threatened by z0sa and want to talk with me about sicking dicks.

[z0sa]

ahhh, no longer denying that what you are doing is legally cyber stalking?

What are you going to do about it, offer me your home address?

[ChumpDumper]

ahhh, no longer denying that what you are doing is legally cyber stalking?

that was quick.You never denied you feel threatened by z0sa.

That wasn't quick.

[history2b]

lol posting on a public forum yet imagining people stalk you.


:owned


http://media.techtarget.com/digitalguide/images/Misc/sdef_definition.gif - Cyberstalking is a crime in which the attacker harasses a victim using electronic communication, such as email or instant messaging (IM), or messages posted to a Web site or a discussion group. A cyberstalker relies upon the anonymity afforded by the Internet to allow them to stalk their victim without being detected. Cyberstalking messages differ from ordinary spam in that a cyberstalker targets a specific victim with often threatening messages, while the spammer targets a multitude of recipients with simply annoying messages.

:owned

[history2b]

You never denied you feel threatened by z0sa.

That wasn't quick.

That wasn't apart of the legal definition in the first place.

[z0sa]

lol not being able to read what you post.

"spammer targets a multitude of recipients with simply annoying messages."

A multitude = more than 1 person. By your own definition, I am not a cyber stalker.

[z0sa]

That wasn't apart of the legal definition in the first place.

Looks like you don't know the legal definition in the first place.

[ChumpDumper]

That wasn't apart of the legal definition in the first place.You posted it twice.

:owned
:owned

[ElNono]

No people who fat pussies find threatening get restricted.

lol simpleton and pussy can't start threads...

[Leonard Curse]

god its just too easy with history2b hell ignore you when you make him look bad fuckin loser

[midnightpulp]

I'm just a realist who detests delusion.

Then why have you deluded yourself into thinking you actually receive a ring when the Lakers win a championship?

Lol, at sipping champagne to celebrate something you didn't take part in.

[Man In Black]

HAHA :lmao at you TOBEY! Hey, how come you didn't use your favorite word, DILDO?


Save your reply. Let me do it for you:
Tobey: I'm winning... I really am... let me show you the ring I earned.



Came in here saying you wanted to talk hoops when in reality, all you are is a JAFO.

Just Another Fucking Obstinate, fits you to a tee, hee.

It's amazing what a message board does to one ego, when in reality, their lives are essentially pretty fricken' regular.

Puff up that chest JAFO, you're such a :blah douchebag.

[Man In Black]

HAHAHA!!!! LMAO!!!

Not contenders you said. Lakers are too talented, have the best coach, a taller frontline...etc. etc.

You were saying?

Delusional you say? Duncan scored 2 Points and the Spurs still waxed that ass!!!
:hat

[Barfunk]

lol hisdildo2b

[BigTex342006]

Damn straight I did. The thick headed will always think they can fight back but the truth is that reality is a motherfucker and it only makes you look more and more stupid if you continue to fight it.

All I'm doing right now is planting seeds. These aren't even the trees yet that I intend to tend to throughout the season. It'll be fun.



...45 wins?? ...keep planting those seeds History.....and yes, the season is fun so far...

LOL!!

[LaMarcus Bryant]

Kobe's mouth was overwhelmed by spooge.

[Punchy]

They fall into the category of "pretenders" despite the "benefit of the doubt" given to this old washed up team that manages to make the playoffs every year.

Here are the facts:

- Tim Duncan has declined too much
- Manu is an glass ankle snap away from not playing
- Parker is an overrated no defense euro chucking softie
- Richard Jefferson was the worst pick up in the summer of 09
- No elite perimeter defenders to guard the elite wings
- Tims interior defense has fallen off too much
- No real shot blocking presence on the team
- Tiago Splitter's hyped arrival ignores his massive deficiencies on defense and on the boards

Few bright spots include:

- George Hill appears to be a solid PG of the future on both ends of the floor
- Dejuan Blair could prove to be a solid energy role player off the bench
- Pop is still a great coach

Projection:

45 wins - 7th seed in the West - 1st round loss in the playoffs

Nice prediction, dumbass :tu

[greyforest]

hahahahah i hope they bump all the old threads like this

hahah

[Danny.Zhu]

Projection:

45 wins - 7th seed in the West - 1st round loss in the playoffs

6 games away...

[WeNeedLength]

So let me get this straight. The Spurs are 39-7 as of right now. They would have to finish 6-30 the rest of the way in order for your 45 win prediction to be correct. You know that prediction threads are just a way to shove your OP right back up that ass that you shit it out of in the first place. To you, good sir, you deserve a big fancy:
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/54/e956367d6ac84b67f0f46880e8993fe78fafec50.jpg

[ElNono]

history2bs wrong as usual, par the course, etc

[DesignatedT]

nice one fuckstick

[4>0rings]

http://farm1.static.flickr.com/63/162770089_89e1bd5d45.jpg

[KobeSynco_TimQuattro]

They fall into the category of "pretenders" despite the "benefit of the doubt" given to this old washed up team that manages to make the playoffs every year.

Here are the facts:

- Tim Duncan has declined too much
- Manu is an glass ankle snap away from not playing
- Parker is an overrated no defense euro chucking softie
- Richard Jefferson was the worst pick up in the summer of 09
- No elite perimeter defenders to guard the elite wings
- Tims interior defense has fallen off too much
- No real shot blocking presence on the team
- Tiago Splitter's hyped arrival ignores his massive deficiencies on defense and on the boards

Few bright spots include:

- George Hill appears to be a solid PG of the future on both ends of the floor
- Dejuan Blair could prove to be a solid energy role player off the bench
- Pop is still a great coach

Projection:

45 wins - 7th seed in the West - 1st round loss in the playoffs



So umm, yeah...

[jmill]

hahahahah i hope they bump all the old threads like this

hahah

then again, maybe not

[Kobe_5_Duncan_4]

Let's see if you give us that factual evidence to rely on. Remember this was your quote above...the term "factual evidence."


So you wrote the following. I've taken the time to go point-by-point.


Technically, the factual thing to say is...Here is your OPINION.

By what standard? Can you give us more than just opinion? In short, what kind of factual evidence do you have that supports this hypothesis. It's gotta be more than mere observation. If you say that, then explain the following.



So if his per minute stats are as healthy as ever, then how has he declined too much. I mean, if you want to talk about per minute stats on the decline, one only has to look at Bean. Mathematically...that is factual evidence.
Using the NBA's official stat engine, one can see a statistic called Effectiveness. In essence, it's a simple calculation. It goes like so: [(Pts+Reb+Ast+Blk+Stl) – (Missed FG+Missed FT+TO)] / Games Played. Going 1 step further, 1 can then change the divosor to Minutes Played instead of Games Played to get an Effectivess Per Minute.

It's easy math, an even though the NBA doesn't list it, we can do it here in plain sight.
Bean for 06-07 EFF Score Per Game is 27.65 * 77 Games Played = 2129 Total Score / 3142 Minutes Played = .678
Tim for 06-07 EFF Score Per Game is 25.39 * 80 Games Played = 2031 Total Score / 2728 Minutes Played = .744

Bean for 07-08 EFF Score Per Game is 26.60 * 82 Games Played = 2181 Total Score / 3193 Minutes Played = .683
Tim for 07-08 EFF Score Per Game is 24.60 * 78 Games Played = 1918 Total Score / 2653 Minutes Played = .723


Bean for 08-09 EFF Score Per Game is 24.18 * 82 Games Played = 1982 Total Score / 2965 Minutes Played = .668
Tim for 08-09 EFF Score Per Game is 24.2 * 75 Games Played = 1815 Total Score / 2525 Minutes Played = .719

Bean for 09-10 EFF Score Per Game is 22.89 * 73 Games Played = 1670 Total Score / 2835 Minutes Played = .589
Tim for 09-10 EFF Score Per Game is 23.42 * 78 Games Played = 1826 Total Score / 2438 Minutes Played = .749

It's Math aka Factual Evidence that it's Bean and Not Tim that is Declining. I await your counterpoint.


Couldn't the same thing be said about Bean's oft-injured knee? What about Bynum? In essence, that can happen to anybody. But for now, Manu wasn't injured last season and comes in well rested. The same can't be said for either Bynum or Bean or even Luke Walton's back.
Curious to see the factual evidence that backs this up. Provide it. He was hurt with knick-knack injuries all season starting with National Team commitments all the way until the playoffs. What's factual is that if you're hurting the whole season, then your stats will reflect that. And when you say no defense, then why is it that when Parker guarded Steve Nash that Nash played worse as opposed to him playing better when defended by noted defender, George Hill? So...prove your statement with factual evidence.
Worst among playoff teams. I'll agree. But this system is where one, normally, benefits from time and a 2nd season. It's no guarantee but improvement is a to be determined. I mean this guy ain't Vujacic, a never was, he's just a guy who didn't acclimate smoothly. Again, this one is to be determined.
Singularly speaking, there isn't a Bruce Bowen on the team(The best Perimeter defender for the 2000's as evidenced by his continual placements on ALL-NBA D Team) But there are some candidates on the team who seemingly have the right tools. This part I'll defer but this too...is a to be determined.


Wrong in all sense of the word. You have to quantify this one. Opp FG% is affected just as much by the aforementioned perimeter defender AND a good 2nd big. When your 2nd big is Matt Bonner, then there is a problem. The 2nd big this year is a combo of DeJuan Blair and Tiago Splitter. Just by being physical, the Spurs have shored up the interior. Also, you can't base it off the PHX series. Gentry's plan the whole time was to switch to have the Big defend the perimeter. When that happened Duncan had too, too much ground to cover if a pass was thrown to the low post. So it's more a design scheme than Tim's physical attributes. Had Channing Frye been as nuclear hot against the LAL as he was against the Spurs, then either Pau or Bynum would have had the same issue. Alas, Frye blew his wad against the Spurs and relaxed because PHX had finally slayed their Devil.

I've explained that up above. It's not really about blocked shots as opposed to making the opposition take tough shots. All that will be revealed in Opp FG%. No one gives a fuck if they're team gets the most blocks if they ain't winning anything. OKC had the most Blocks Per Game by team last season at 5.9 Per Game. The Clippers finished in 3rd place at 5.7 Per Game and didn't even sniff playoffs. And while the vaunted LAL finished tied for 15th with 4.9 BPG, you make it seem as if San Antonio finished far, far below. That would be incorrect. They finished at 4.6 BPG with Bonner playing significant minutes. Both McDyess and Bonner will be playing less, while Splitter and Blair get duty to run post area with Duncan.

So...factual evidence seems to suggest you've overhyped your team's blocking capablitilies. Considering you have 3 close to or taller,7-footers who play significant minutes, whereas the Spurs went in with just Duncan at 6-11.


I'm curious about this one too. The NBA has been pining for this guy since he was 18. If he was a LAL guy, then he'd be hyped as the next White Hope but since he's coming to San Antonio, then you just assume he's no good. Typical LAL bandwagon fan logic. It reeks of Steve Blake being hyped as a GREAT defender when, in fact, he's just SLIGHTLY better than Fisher. It's an improvement true, but TP didn't have a problem going around Blake or Fisher in the past, and fully healthy, he's going to attack with infinite ease around either of those guys. But back to Splitter. What he is, is a smart player with a great understanding of Flex cut and Pick & Roll offenses. His passing ability will surpise you(Trust me...you don't know how adept a passer he is, but some say...it approaches that of Russian Legend, Arvydas Sabonis) and his ability to read and cover P & R attackers is really good. Does that amount to lots of blocks? Maybe, maybe not...but it will result in lower FG% for opponents. If you look at Luis Scola's indoctrination into the NBA, you have an approximation of what Splitter can give a team, except that he's much taller than Scola and will play in the interior more often. In the World's, A small sample true, but still one that can be referenced as factual evidence, Splitter held his own against Team USA and in the interior, he proved to be too much for the likes of Lamar Odom, Kevin Love, & Tyson Chandler.

SO...we're waiting for Factual Evidence to back up the opinions you posted. I gave you some, I await your counter with some FACTUAL EVIDENCE.


Let's revisit the facts now Fag_in_Black

[Giuseppe]

Let them contemplate this upon the tree of woe, 5_4....

Crucify them.

[Man In Black]

What was wrong with the name TOBEY? Did you change it because you had to due to Spurs fan knocking you out, pissing on you to wake you up again, and then knocking you out again?

Discussion you said. Losing to a quality Memphis team doesn't change the fact that Duncan was the better player for the years listed.
MOVE GOALPOST SOME MORE. You're good at that.

Any team but the LAL. There will be no 3peat WOE IS YOU :)

[TheMACHINE]

Any team but LAL? I'm surprised you haven't committed suicide in the past two years with all the heart break every round.

[21_Blessings]

Any team but the LAL. There will be no 3peat WOE IS YOU :)

That's what you said last year about the repeat.

lol 1st round exit to the 8 seed

lol Gasol trade fucking the Spurs from every angle.