NPR fires Juan Williams over flying Muslims comment

[DarrinS]

Basically, he said when he sees people on flights in full Muslim garb, it makes him nervous.

gRwok2Ffoys

[jack sommerset]

They're eating their own. Juan is on these so called republican shows representing the democratic view holding his own in the process and how does NPR reward him, they shit can the guy becuase he says he does a double take when on an airplane when he sees a muslim in full gear.

[CosmicCowboy]

I would get nervous too. With our new found sensitivity for Muslims feelings it's probably considered impolite and politically incorrect for airport security to search them.

[George Gervin's Afro]

They're eating their own. Juan is on these so called republican shows representing the democratic view holding his own in the process and how does NPR reward him, they shit can the guy becuase he says he does a double take when on an airplane when he sees a muslim in full gear.

who is they?

[MannyIsGod]

Completely appropriate.

http://www.laobserved.com/archive/2010/10/npr_memo_to_stations_why.php


“In appearing on TV or other media . . . NPR journalists should not express views they would not air in their role as an NPR journalist. They should not participate in shows . . . that encourage punditry and speculation rather than fact-based analysis.”

He was a news analyst for NPR. He wasn't a commentator.

[MannyIsGod]

I would get nervous too. With our new found sensitivity for Muslims feelings it's probably considered impolite and politically incorrect for airport security to search them.

Yeah, pretty ironic because the Muslims I know get searched pretty much everytime they get on a plane. Does that happen to you?

[101A]

Yeah, pretty ironic because the Muslims I know get searched pretty much everytime they get on a plane. Does that happen to you?

It happened to my 92 year old grandfather.

Strip searched.

Seriously.

[Spurminator]

I'm disappointed that Juan is not above such superficiality. I like him.

[MannyIsGod]

Every time he flies? I've been searched plenty of times too. A few times I felt the guy owed me dinner he got so god damn invasive. But I've only been searched about a 3rd of the time.

[George Gervin's Afro]

And now Fox news has linked the NPR email address so the jacksommerset's of the world can send them hate mail..

stay classy fox news.

[DarrinS]

We need to make statements like this against the law.

[Spurminator]

We need to make firing people over statements like this against the law.

[DarrinS]

And now Fox news has linked the NPR email address so the jacksommerset's of the world can send them hate mail..

stay classy fox news.


We never would find it otherwise. :lmao

[MannyIsGod]

We need to make statements like this against the law.

God damn your strawmen are weaker than ever, Darrinbot.

Why are you so butt hurt over this firing?

[DarrinS]

We need to make firing people over statements like this against the law.


No way. People that say things like this should not only be fired, but should also attend two months of sensitivity training.

[MannyIsGod]

We never would find it otherwise. :lmao

I don't doubt it. Idiots like you have difficulties with the internet.

LOL patents.

[MannyIsGod]

No way. People that say things like this should not only be fired, but should also attend two months of sensitivity training.

:lmao

Right over your head.

[Spurminator]

Has any terrorist or attempted terrorist attack on a plane ever happened while the perpetrator was wearing full Muslim attire?

[George Gervin's Afro]

We never would find it otherwise. :lmao


It's on NPR website..why would anyone else carry this? Well only those who have an obvious agenda, but most others proabably don't care..

[George Gervin's Afro]

No way. People that say things like this should not only be fired, but should also attend two months of sensitivity training.

people who say things that contradict what their contracts stipulate deserve to be fired... are you against honoring contracts?

[TeyshaBlue]

I'm guessing none of you have read the entire transcript.

It's Sherrod Part II. NPR knee jerked and completely boned this.

[cool cat]

Has any terrorist or attempted terrorist attack on a plane ever happened while the perpetrator was wearing full Muslim attire?

What is full Muslim attire?

are we talking full on from the desert muslim
http://topnews.us/sites/default/files/Osama-bin-laden5.jpg

are we talking full on muslim beauty queen
http://frontpagemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/05/miss-usa-bikini-rima-fakih.gif

or we talking about average muslim carpet salesman
http://plancksconstant.org/blog1/image/sub4/carpetsalesman.jpg

Either way I would be nervous from all of them, one might kill me, one is just another hot girl I would never be able to talk to, and the other one might fulfill my lifelong dream of a flying carpet.

[Spurminator]

What is full Muslim attire?


Whatever Juan Williams was talking about.

[TeyshaBlue]

Mara Liasson is next. Book it.

[DarrinS]

people who say things that contradict what their contracts stipulate deserve to be fired... are you against honoring contracts?


You and Manny are so full of shit. Do you two really believe this is the first time Juan Williams has given an opinion? What has he been doing for YEARS on Fox and the Sunday political shows?

[DarrinS]

Wow.


Fired NPR news analyst Juan Williams should have kept his feeling about Muslims between himself and "his psychiatrist or his publicist," the network's CEO told an audience at the Atlanta Press Club earlier today.


So, not only is Juan a biggot, he also has mental problems. Good thing they fired him so he can go get his mind right.

[DarrinS]

I'm guessing none of you have read the entire transcript.

It's Sherrod Part II. NPR knee jerked and completely boned this.


This is the truth.

[DarrinS]

Hmmm. Did CAIR pressure NPR will a lawsuit?

zIOBYsVuuFs

[SnakeBoy]

I thinks it's good that NPR has taken a stand against muslim hating ###### biggots.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm guessing none of you have read the entire transcript.

It's Sherrod Part II. NPR knee jerked and completely boned this.

Did you read NPR's response I linked? This isn't a first time issue. The very act of him being on that show was actually a violation of their ethics policy.

[MannyIsGod]

You and Manny are so full of shit. Do you two really believe this is the first time Juan Williams has given an opinion? What has he been doing for YEARS on Fox and the Sunday political shows?

:lol

Yeah, thats kinda the point. Before you call me full of shit, click on the link nI posted and save yourself playing the part of ignorant idiot.

Oh well, too late.

[TeyshaBlue]

Did you read NPR's response I linked? This isn't a first time issue. The very act of him being on that show was actually a violation of their ethics policy.

Newsflash...he aint the only one.

Journalistic ethics? Please. Nina Totenburg still has a gig with NPR after ripping Jessie Helms (not that he didn't deserve it.:lol).

I think he ought to be worried about what's going on in the Good Lord's mind, because if there is retributive justice, he'll get AIDS from a transfusion, or one of his grandchildren will get it."

[MannyIsGod]

Newsflash...he aint the only one.

Journalistic ethics? Please. Nina Totenburg still has a gig with NPR after ripping Jessie Helms (not that he didn't deserve it.:lol).

I think he ought to be worried about what's going on in the Good Lord's mind, because if there is retributive justice, he'll get AIDS from a transfusion, or one of his grandchildren will get it."

Does Nina Totenburg have the same title and role that Juan Williams did? Does Nina Totenburg have the same history of violating the code as Juan Williams did?

[TeyshaBlue]

It's also kinda weird this comes immediately after Soros drops 1.8 million bones on NPR.

[SnakeBoy]

Did you read NPR's response I linked? This isn't a first time issue. The very act of him being on that show was actually a violation of their ethics policy.

Hell yeah! Everybody knows the whities response is the truth. That boy's accounting of what happened has got to be a lie. Can't trust any blackie who forgets who his master is and stops towing the line.

[TeyshaBlue]

Does Nina Totenburg have the same title and role that Juan Williams did? Does Nina Totenburg have the same history of violating the code as Juan Williams did?

No, he's a news analyst. She's a correspondent. Is there a point here?

[TeyshaBlue]

or was a news analyst.

[TeyshaBlue]

Does Nina Totenburg have the same history of violating the code as Juan Williams did?

The fact that there's even a history ought to give one pause.

[MannyIsGod]

No, he's a news analyst. She's a correspondent. Is there a point here?

Read the memo I linked.

[TeyshaBlue]

Again, Marra Liasson is toast.

[MannyIsGod]

First, a critical distinction has been lost in this debate. NPR News analysts have a distinctive role and set of responsibilities. This is a very different role than that of a commentator or columnist.

[Spurminator]

So apparently going on those shows, while against code, is not a fireable offense. But saying something offensive and/or controversial while going on one of those shows, which is against code in the first place, is. That's the risk he took.

I don't know if he should have been fired, that's not up to me, but I do know that he should be more level headed than to get worried/nervous when he's on an airplane with someone dressed in "Muslim garb" and "identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims."

[TeyshaBlue]

Read the memo I linked.

I did. I guess it's, ostensibly, taking part in a show that promotes "punditdry" (I didn't even know that was a word) that was the poison pill. If that's the case, as opposed to the content, I guess NPR has a case. It appears that the two issues are conflated here....which starts pushing this into a more subjective light.

[MannyIsGod]

I did. I guess it's, ostensibly, taking part in a show that promotes "punditdry" (I didn't even know that was a word) that was the poison pill. If that's the case, as opposed to the content, I guess NPR has a case. It appears that the two issues are conflated here....which starts pushing this into a more subjective light.

I think he was told not to do this for quite some time and they got tired of it. Anything but knee jerk.

[TeyshaBlue]

I think he was told not to do this for quite some time and they got tired of it. Anything but knee jerk.

Yeah, upon further reflection, I can see it was for appearing on shows as opposed to what he was saying (I hope).

Who's next?

[SnakeBoy]

I think he was told not to do this for quite some time and they got tired of it. Anything but knee jerk.

Exactly. Can you believe the nerve of this guy lying about what took place...


Williams said that he received a message from Ellen Weiss, NPR's senior vice president for news, telling him to call her. When he did, he said, she asked him to clarify his comments that he gets "nervous" when he sees Muslims on an airplane.

"I said, 'I said what I meant to say,'" Williams told Fox News, "which is that it is an honest experience that when I'm in an airport and I see people in Muslim garb who identify themselves first and foremost as Muslims, I do a double take. I have a moment of anxiety or fear given what happened on 9/11. That's just a reality."

Weiss, he said, told him that he had crossed the line. When he asked what line that was, she said that his statement had been bigoted. Williams said he had pointed out that he had gone on to tell O'Reilly that America had "an obligation to protect the constitutional rights of everyone in the country" and to prevent bigotry, but that "you cannot ignore what happened on 9/11 and you cannot ignore the connection to Islamic radicalism."

[Spurminator]

So is that explanation supposed to make what he said sound better?

[George Gervin's Afro]

So is that explanation supposed to make what he said sound better?

snake is talking to himself

[MannyIsGod]

Sucks that he gave them a reason to fire him, doesn't it? If you have an ethics code that tells you not to go on those shows, you shouldn't go on those shows, should you? Even if they wanted to get rid of him then he has only himself to blame for giving them the easy out.

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, upon further reflection, I can see it was for appearing on shows as opposed to what he was saying (I hope).

Who's next?

I don't know, I don't follow NPR analysts very closely. We should ask all the politicians who are planning to boycott NPR though. I'm sure they know.

Or Darrin!

[clambake]

you would think the fear breeders would want them to dress in "muslim garb".

[SnakeBoy]

snake is talking to himself

Of course I am. This forum isn't about having discussions. Your take on any issue is always predictable so I don't have any illusion of having honest discussions on here.

Imagine Williams had said he has a moment of nervousness when seeing a group of white tea partiers and then gone on to say how important it was not to judge all white people and then been fired by Fox News. Well, it's pretty easy to guess what your take would be.

[MannyIsGod]

BTW, his comments were bigoted comments by definition.

[SnakeBoy]

He's black, he can't be a bigot.

[MannyIsGod]

I wasn't aware of that rule. I guess it wasn't bigoted then.

[TeyshaBlue]

Sucks that he gave them a reason to fire him, doesn't it? If you have an ethics code that tells you not to go on those shows, you shouldn't go on those shows, should you? Even if they wanted to get rid of him then he has only himself to blame for giving them the easy out.

Apparently he's been giving them the easy way out for 13 years.:lol

[jack sommerset]

I don't know if he should have been fired, that's not up to me, but I do know that he should be more level headed than to get worried/nervous when he's on an airplane with someone dressed in "Muslim garb" and "identifying themselves first and foremost as Muslims."

Can u believe Jesse Jackson is more cautious when approaching a group of young blacks compared to young whites. That fucking RACIST pig!!!!!

[jack sommerset]

Apparently he's been giving them the easy way out for 13 years.:lol

LoL!!!!

"They" are eating their own!

Georgie, you better be careful, "they" are coming for you soon!!!!

[Bartleby]

Can u believe Jesse Jackson is more cautious when approaching a group of young blacks compared to young whites. That fucking RACIST pig!!!!!

NPR should fire him, too.

[jack sommerset]

NPR should fire him, too.

That would not be politically correct according to "they"

[DarrinS]

I think he was told not to do this for quite some time and they got tired of it. Anything but knee jerk.


Yeah, we let our employees violate policy for YEARS before we finally get tired of it and show them the door.

:lmao

[DarrinS]

BTW, his comments were bigoted comments by definition.

:lmao

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao

Patents. :lmao

[MannyIsGod]

Yeah, we let our employees violate policy for YEARS before we finally get tired of it and show them the door.

:lmao

So then you're upset they showed restraint or you're upset that it was knee jerk? Or you're just being a bitch because the word muslim is involved?

I think we all know the answer from the resident islamaphobe.

[jack sommerset]

So then you're upset they showed restraint or you're upset that it was knee jerk? Or you're just being a bitch because the word muslim is involved?

I think we all know the answer from the resident islamaphobe.

If people that defend Juan being fired are islamaphobes then count me as one. Fucking faggot.

[MannyIsGod]

Oh I don't think that people defend Juan for being fired are Islamphobes. I'm not sure if you're an Islamaphobe or not because I figure you're just a moron and generally ignore most of your posts. Darrin is a moron too but in a more entertaining way. You're just a bland and generic version of an idiot.

[DarrinS]

So then you're upset they showed restraint or you're upset that it was knee jerk? Or you're just being a bitch because the word muslim is involved?

I think we all know the answer from the resident islamaphobe.


Your posts are hilarious in this thread.

[jack sommerset]

Oh I don't think that people defend Juan for being fired are Islamphobes. I'm not sure if you're an Islamaphobe or not because I figure you're just a moron and generally ignore most of your posts. Darrin is a moron too but in a more entertaining way. You're just a bland and generic version of an idiot.

Everyone knows what you are doing. You're a faggot.

[MannyIsGod]

Everyone knows what you are doing. You're a faggot.

k

[MannyIsGod]

Your posts are hilarious in this thread.

Your posts are islamophobic in this thread.

[DarrinS]

Your posts are islamophobic in this thread.

LOL weatherman in training.

[DarrinS]

LOL


Fox signs Juan Williams to $2 million dollar deal.


LOL NPR

[MannyIsGod]

Oh noes, NPR lost out on the star free agent of the journalism off season. Oh wait.

:lmao @ Fox News giving the guy 2 million. Kahn must be running that franchise too.

[TeyshaBlue]

Oh noes, NPR lost out on the star free agent of the journalism off season. Oh wait.

:lmao @ Fox News giving the guy 2 million. Kahn must be running that franchise too.

Dude, Williams was good. It certainly is NPR's loss.

Ever read any of his stuff?

[coyotes_geek]

I'm guessing Williams already had his deal worked out with fox, told npr he was going to leave and npr found an excuse to show him the door early.

[MannyIsGod]

I think you missed my point Teysha. I doubt that NPR is in the business of trying to have the highest paid analysts around. I'm not sure how Fox news paying him 2 million is somehow setting them back.

Did you listen to NPR or visit their site in order to read his work for them? Do you feel they'll lose a large listener volume? If anything the amount of publicity they're getting during their annual membership drive is going to get them a larger amount of money than before. When people who listen to NPR hear that they've pissed of Sarah Palin they may just want to donate.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm guessing Williams already had his deal worked out with fox, told npr he was going to leave and npr found an excuse to show him the door early.

I guess anything's possible and since we're just speculating I think Fox is trying to cash in on people like Jack and Darrin who have probably never heard of Juan Williams before yet have now made him their latest hero.

[TeyshaBlue]

I think you missed my point Teysha. I doubt that NPR is in the business of trying to have the highest paid analysts around. I'm not sure how Fox news paying him 2 million is somehow setting them back.

Did you listen to NPR or visit their site in order to read his work for them? Do you feel they'll lose a large listener volume? If anything the amount of publicity they're getting during their annual membership drive is going to get them a larger amount of money than before. When people who listen to NPR hear that they've pissed of Sarah Palin they may just want to donate.

I've read 2 of his books fairly recently. "Enough" and "Thurgood Marshall: American Revolutionary"

The Marshall book was an espcially good read as I really didn't know much about him outside of his SCOTUS identity.

Sorry...I didn't completely address your question.

Undoubtably NPR will lose some listeners...I mean, what station doesn't when they fire a talking head? How many? Dunno. Does it really matter? Nah.
It wont chase me off cause I completely dig NPR..but I understand their perspective and listen accordingly.

[MannyIsGod]

I've read 2 of his books fairly recently. "Enough" and "Thurgood Marshall: American Revolutionary"

The Marshall book was an espcially good read as I really didn't know much about him outside of his SCOTUS identity.

Sorry...I didn't completely address your question.

Undoubtably NPR will lose some listeners...I mean, what station doesn't when they fire a talking head? How many? Dunno. Does it really matter? Nah.
It wont chase me off cause I completely dig NPR..but I understand their perspective and listen accordingly.

I've never read anything of his. I used to listen to NPR more but I lost track with many of their podcasts although on long drives if I can find an NPR station - and you usually can - I do listen them when music gets boring.

To be honest I don't read anything from any of their correspondents or news analysts or personalities.

I can't see them gaining any listeners but I doubt anyone remembers about this one week down the line. The world will be back to "juan who?"

I do agree with you that anytime a network loses a voice that provides good insight or information that network has lost an asset but I think you and I both know thats not what Darrin's point was.

[coyotes_geek]

I guess anything's possible and since we're just speculating I think Fox is trying to cash in on people like Jack and Darrin who have probably never heard of Juan Williams before yet have now made him their latest hero.

I think fox has been looking for a replacement token democrat since Colmes left Hannity.

[TeyshaBlue]

I've never read anything of his. I used to listen to NPR more but I lost track with many of their podcasts although on long drives if I can find an NPR station - and you usually can - I do listen them when music gets boring.

To be honest I don't read anything from any of their correspondents or news analysts or personalities.

I can't see them gaining any listeners but I doubt anyone remembers about this one week down the line. The world will be back to "juan who?"

I do agree with you that anytime a network loses a voice that provides good insight or information that network has lost an asset but I think you and I both know thats not what Darrin's point was.

I think if you had read Williams, your perspective might change just a bit....it's a net loss for NPR IMHO and yeah, that's not exactly what Darrin was talkin' bout.:lol

[DarrinS]

NPR is good when you have insomnia.

[Stringer_Bell]

What mjaor bullshit to fire Juan Williams, not that I listen to NPR or care about his work on NPR...but it was such a weak comment that I don't think it's worth him losing his job over it. Hopefully Fox gives him a bigger pay check and he can be the new Alan Colmes!

[boutons_deux]

Conservatives declare war on NPR

NPR CEO Vivian Schiller responded to Williams' claims, arguing that Williams broke company rules for reporters by voicing opinions he would not voice as an NPR reporter.

A critical distinction has been lost in this debate. NPR News analysts have a distinctive role and set of responsibilities. This is a very different role than that of a commentator or columnist. News analysts may not take personal public positions on controversial issues; doing so undermines their credibility as analysts, and that's what’s happened in this situation. As you all well know, we offer views of all kinds on your air every day, but those views are expressed by those we interview — not our reporters and analysts.

She added that Williams' feelings about Muslims at airports should be between himself and "his psychiatrist or publicist."

While the effort to defund NPR may gain media attention in the coming days, it may not have as much impact as NPR's detractors may be hoping. According to the LA Times, NPR's national operation only receives about one percent to 3 percent of its revenue from federal grants; local stations depend on federal grants for about 10 percent of their revenue.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2010/10/conservatives-declare-war-npr/

[DarrinS]

She added that Williams' feelings about Muslims at airports should be between himself and "his psychiatrist or publicist."




What a fucked up thing to say. Sounds like he's better off without doing charity work for NPR.

[Wild Cobra]

I see their token conservative, who is too far left for me, was too far right for them.

[Winehole23]

(David Brooks is NPR's token conservative)

[boutons_deux]

No, he was an analyst, supposed to objective as primary value, who exposed his prejudice publicly, pretty much screwing his analytical credibility.

A being prejudiced, bigoted against Muslims, he's a perfect fit for Fox Repug Propaganda spew machine.

[Bartleby]

NPR is good when you have insomnia.

It probably seems that way when most of your news comes from people who are shouting their message.

[SnakeBoy]

No, he was an analyst, supposed to objective as primary value, who exposed his prejudice publicly, pretty much screwing his analytical credibility.

A being prejudiced, bigoted against Muslims, he's a perfect fit for Fox Repug Propaganda spew machine.

That's the funny thing about this. Williams was making the exact opposite point to O'Reilly. The far left has gone absolutely crazy. (Not trying to imply you're far left boutons, we all know your just plain crazy.)

[Winehole23]

Williams was making the exact opposite point to O'Reilly.What point was he making, in your view?

[Wild Cobra]

He should be fired for such comments. If someone in his position goes on air and says "when I see two men kissing, it absolutely disgusts me," he would be fired. His statement was no different. Is it right? No, but this is the type of sensitive society we've created.
If such comments should be kept quite because they disturb others, then two men kissing should also be shunned as it disturbs others.

Cannot have it both ways.

[jack sommerset]

Oh noes, NPR lost out on the star free agent of the journalism off season. Oh wait.

Only black one too. Oh noes, NPR are racist!!!!

[Wild Cobra]

Only black one too. Oh noes, NPR are racist!!!!
Yes.

They were just looking for a reason to get rid of their token black I bet.

[MannyIsGod]

I wonder where everyone who is pissed off about this was when Octavia Nasr was fired this summer?

[Winehole23]

That was totally different. Nasr was fired for speaking too respectfully of a Muslim.

[MannyIsGod]

Naturally. I guess Palin didn't care about her first amendment rights nor did Huckabee feel the need to boycott CNN. By the way, can someone refresh my memory as to how many millions she got from Fox News and how many youtubes on the subject Darrin posted?

[Winehole23]

Regardless of the hypocrisy, it was a colossally moronic move by NPR.

[DarrinS]

Williams and O'Reilly blast NPR.


They make a good point: Juan stating how he "feels" on flights with Muslims in "full Muslim garb" is NOT an opinion.


Interview with Williams starts about 4 min in.

FBWR31CGR54

[101A]

Regardless of the hypocrisy, it was a colossally moronic move by NPR.

This.

[TeyshaBlue]

A being prejudiced, bigoted against Muslims, he's a perfect fit for Fox Repug Propaganda spew machine.

I can see where someone who was completely, profoundly, ignorant of JW's writings and news pieces would adopt this stance. Willfull ignorance...it's not just for boutons anymore.:lol

[Winehole23]

They make a good point: Juan stating how he "feels" on flights with Muslims in "full Muslim garb" is NOT an opinion.I'm not so sure that a feeling isn't an opinion. I more take issue with the characterization of the feeling as bigoted. It seems to me Mr. Williams was fired for revealing his own human frailty and irrationality.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm not so sure that a feeling isn't an opinion. I more take issue with the characterization of the feeling as bigoted. It seems to me Mr. Williams was fired for revealing his own human frailty and irrationality.

So you ignore the explanation they give completely? The comment WAS bigoted. Can you give me a rational explanation for feeling afraid of Muslims wearing religious clothing or can you only give me an emotional explanation completely overturned by overwhelming statistics?

[Winehole23]

So you ignore the explanation they give completely? I'm not sure what explanation you mean.


Can you give me a rational explanation for feeling afraid of Muslims wearing religious clothing ...?No. Feelings of fear and insecurity are not rational, but neither do I think they are necessarily bigoted.

[Winehole23]

If Juan Williams is a bigot based on one comment standing alone, the word has no meaning anymore.

[TeyshaBlue]

I'm not sure what explanation you mean.

No. Feelings of fear and insecurity are not rational, but neither do I think they are necessarily bigoted.

Which, to me, seemed to be a point he was attempting to make which would be very consistent with his writing.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm not sure what explanation you mean.\


The explanation from NPR not singling this episode out but rather citing a long line of infractions of their ethics code for journalists. While everyone seems to be focused in on his comments here NPR did provide a different explanation for his firing which I linked in this thread. You could choose to ignore it as a convient cover story for them, but even Darrin pointed out William's history of going on these shows for years.



No. Feelings of fear and insecurity are not rational, but neither do I think they are necessarily bigoted.

I don't see how they're not when you acknowledge their irrationality. I'm honestly at a loss to understand how someone can look at a Muslim boarding a plane and think they are a fucking terrorist and be afraid. Its so completely irrational that you might as well be afraid of the boogey man coming out of your closet at night.

[Winehole23]

To be sure, I can see how offering that point on Fox News might raise some pious, liberal eyebrows, but it's a reasonable -- even anodyne -- opinion.

[TeyshaBlue]

The explanation from NPR not singling this episode out but rather citing a long line of infractions of their ethics code for journalists. While everyone seems to be focused in on his comments here NPR did provide a different explanation for his firing which I linked in this thread. You could choose to ignore it as a convient cover story for them, but even Darrin pointed out William's history of going on these shows for years.



I don't see how they're not when you acknowledge their irrationality. I'm honestly at a loss to understand how someone can look at a Muslim boarding a plane and think they are a fucking terrorist and be afraid. Its so completely irrational that you might as well be afraid of the boogey man coming out of your closet at night.
Thats the myth of equivalency again.
All bigots hold irrational views. Not all irrational views are bigoted.

[TeyshaBlue]

Lol @ tag teaming Manny. Sorry dude.
:toast

[Winehole23]

The explanation from NPR not singling this episode out but rather citing a long line of infractions of their ethics code for journalists.Not sure what that has to with with the allegedly bigoted nature of Mr. Williams comments, which is what I thought we were discussing. NPR can be justified by its own policy and moronic for following it to a T in this case. The two aren't mutually exclusive.


While everyone seems to be focused in on his comments here NPR did provide a different explanation for his firing which I linked in this thread. You could choose to ignore it as a convient cover story for them, but even Darrin pointed out William's history of going on these shows for years.You got NPR's back, even after Ellen Weiss publicly suggested Williams needs psychiatric help. That's your prerogative.

If others wish to focus on other things, that's theirs.


Its so completely irrational that you might as well be afraid of the boogey man coming out of your closet at night.It's like that, yes. People can be like that. It doesn't make them all bigots. Juan Williams admitting he has moments like that doesn't make him one either. I think you have to look at the totality of someone's words/actions before coming to that conclusion, instead of flying off the handle every time someone puts a foot wrong.

[MannyIsGod]

If Juan Williams is a bigot based on one comment standing alone, the word has no meaning anymore.

So you're saying that NPR also fired the English Language?

Perhaps 9/11 created a lot of bigots, WH. I don't think he's a bad man and he's obviously very intelligent, but being afraid of a religious group for no rational reason is pretty much bigotry in my book.

[MannyIsGod]

Thats the myth of equivalency again.
All bigots hold irrational views. Not all irrational views are bigoted.

What about all irrational fears of religious groups? I don't think I made the equivalence that you're insinuating.

[TeyshaBlue]

So you're saying that NPR also fired the English Language?

Perhaps 9/11 created a lot of bigots, WH. I don't think he's a bad man and he's obviously very intelligent, but being afraid of a religious group for no rational reason is pretty much bigotry in my book.

Welcome to zero tolerance land, where context cannot exist.

[MannyIsGod]

Lol @ tag teaming Manny. Sorry dude.
:toast

Are you kidding me? This is actually fun. I have no problem disagreeing with people like you and WH and discussing it and it sure beats the hell out of speaking with certain others in this forum who have spent all of their mental strength on figuring out how to embed youtubes.

[MannyIsGod]

Welcome to zero tolerance land, where context cannot exist.

Or welcome to post 9/11 America where irrational fear isn't considered bigotry.

[TeyshaBlue]

What about all irrational fears of religious groups? I don't think I made the equivalence that you're insinuating.

He straight up illustrated the irrationality...he highlighted it for examination only to be branded a bigot by those who wont read him outside of this instance.

[Winehole23]

So you're saying that NPR also fired the English Language?No. I'm suggesting you fired the context and common sense appreciation for his admitted human frailty.

[MannyIsGod]

Not sure what that has to with with the allegedly bigoted nature of Mr. Williams comments, which is what I thought we were discussing. NPR can be justified by its own policy and moronic for following it to a T in this case. The two aren't mutually exclusive.

You got NPR's back, even after Ellen Weiss publicly suggested Williams needs psychiatric help. That's your prerogative.


For the record I believe her comments to be extremely unprofessional. Perhaps I made the mistake of framing your debate in the same context as others but when you called their move stupid I equated your argument with those who are also saying NPR should lose public money etc etc.



If others wish to focus on other things, that's theirs.

It's like that, yes. People can be like that. It doesn't make them all bigots. Juan Williams admitting he has moments like that doesn't make him one either. I think you have to look at the totality of someone's words/actions before coming to that conclusion, instead of flying off the handle every time someone puts a foot wrong.

I said the comment was a bigoted comment. I've clearly stated Juan Williams isn't a bad person in my limited opinion. My comments were clearly focused on the comment itself. One who makes comments like that is by definition a bigot, but that on its own carries little weight without a history.

Perhaps not all bigots are created, equal, WH. I think its safe to say that Juan Williams is not the same as a Klansman.

[MannyIsGod]

No. I'm suggesting you fired the context and common sense appreciation for his admitted human frailty.

Did I? I didn't remove the nuance from my argument, WH. You only perceived I did.

[TeyshaBlue]

Ahhh screw it....Im gonna find some youtubes.:ihit
:lol:lol

[Winehole23]

One who makes comments like that is by definition a bigot, but that on its own carries little weight without a history. I disagree. Accusations of bigotry carry a lot of weight, even if the occasion is minor.

[Winehole23]

Williams' firing is a clarifying moment in media mores. You can be Islamophobic, in the form of refusing to run the most innocuous imaginable political cartoons (http://reason.com/blog/2010/10/13/just-admit-it-newspapers-youre) out of a broad-brush fear of Muslims, but you can't admit it, even when the fear is expressed as a personal feeling and not a group description, winnowed down to the very specific and nightmare-exhuming act of riding on an airplane, and uttered in a context of otherwise repudiating collective guilt and overbroad fearmongering. http://reason.com/blog/2010/10/21/juan-gone

[MannyIsGod]

I'll read it in a bit, but the premise that refusing to run cartoons is islamaphobic is completely wrong because that anticipates the reaction of an extremest group and not all Muslims. Poorly thought out parallel.

[RandomGuy]

Williams: NPR was looking for reason to fire him

By BRETT ZONGKER, Associated Press Writer Brett Zongker, Associated Press Writer – 5 mins ago


WASHINGTON – Ousted NPR analyst Juan Williams said Friday that he believes his former employer had been looking for a reason to fire him and used comments he made this week about Muslim airline passengers as an excuse to do so. Meanwhile, a U.S. senator said he would start the ball rolling to cut federal funding to the network.

Muslim groups were outraged by Williams' comments Monday on Fox News that he gets nervous when he sees people in Muslim dress on planes. But Williams' firing two days later prompted complaints by conservatives and even some liberals that NPR went too far.

Williams said Friday on ABC's "Good Morning America" that he believes NPR had wanted to fire him for some time because they disapproved of his appearances on shows by his other employer, Fox News. Opinions Williams expressed on Fox News over the years had strained his relationship with NPR to the point that the public radio network asked him to stop using its name when he appeared on Bill O'Reilly's show.

"I think they were looking for a reason to get rid of me," he said Friday. "They were uncomfortable with the idea that I was talking to the likes of Bill O'Reilly or Sean Hannity." Hannity hosts another Fox show

NPR very actively discourages staff from being too politically active. It was noted by NPR itself in a piece I listened to last night that they have forbidden staff from attending Stewarts March to Restore Sanity in a couple of weeks.

From what it is worth, it appears Mr. Williams is likely right when he says this.

[TeyshaBlue]

Williams: NPR was looking for reason to fire him

By BRETT ZONGKER, Associated Press Writer Brett Zongker, Associated Press Writer – 5 mins ago



NPR very actively discourages staff from being too politically active. It was noted by NPR itself in a piece I listened to last night that they have forbidden staff from attending Stewarts March to Restore Sanity in a couple of weeks.

From what it is worth, it appears Mr. Williams is likely right when he says this.

*cough*Marra Liasson *cough*

[DarrinS]

I remember there was a study back in 2003, where photos were flashed of black and white men, some armed with guns, others with cell phones or wallets, some unarmed. The test subjects had about half a second to decide quickly whether to press a "shoot" or "don't shoot" button, based on the photos.


It was shown that subjects were more likely to shoot the photos of black men, even when unarmed. There was no discrepancy between black and white test subjects.



So, we are probably programmed to react this way, based on how we are conditioned. There is nothing bigotted about self-preservation. If there is a visceral reaction to seeing an orthadox Muslim at an airport, it probably has more to do with witnessing the past 40 years of jihadist terrorist attacks and associating things like 9/11 with that "bearded" image than it has to do with counscious, pre-meditated bigotry.

[DarrinS]

I'll read it in a bit, but the premise that refusing to run cartoons is islamaphobic is completely wrong because that anticipates the reaction of an extremest group and not all Muslims. Poorly thought out parallel.

That woman that came up with the idea for "Everybody Draw Muhammed Day" (PBUH) had to basically give up her identity and go into hiding as suggested to her by the FBI.

[z0sa]

I find the rate at which this country views "bigots" in such black and white terms, simply because of their natural reactions to certain stimuli, quite alarming. People completely ignore the natural psychological aspects of these things. Seeing Muslims in religious clothing at an airport brings rushing to the front, memories of 9/11 and ideas of extremists. It appears many repress or even deny having these thoughts, but I find that extremely hard to believe. Humans naturally associate former learning with new stimuli, which is why you have people railing against the GZ mosque, and feeling a bit uneasy around traditional Muslims at airports.

It's not bigotry, by and large. It's a human reaction, which must then be repressed voluntarily.

[DarrinS]

By EMILIO KARIM DABUL
NPR's firing of commentator Juan Williams this week is one of the worst examples of rush to judgment since 9/11.

Mr. Williams, whether one tends to agree with him or not, is immensely respected by his fellow journalists and viewers alike for his ability to conduct himself with dignity and respect in a field where extremes of opinion and low-ball tactics have become all too common. He's mostly a moderate liberal who is able to hear other points of view with respect, and he can be nuanced in his own views.

In these times, Mr. Williams's instinct for finding both middle and common ground is no small feat.

And for what offense has he been pilloried by the censorship squad of NPR? For saying out loud what many Americans think—that he gets nervous when he's on a plane and sees people dressed in traditional Muslim garb.

As an Arab-American of Muslim descent, I am not offended by this because in all honesty I have had the same reaction in similar circumstances. In Berlin a couple of years ago, my flight was delayed because, we were told, one of the passengers, who was in a wheelchair, needed extra assistance. When she finally was brought into the waiting area, she was covered from head to toe in traditional Muslim dress and only her eyes were visible. What happened? I grew nervous. I got on the plane just the same, but with trepidation.

Was my response rational? Yes and no.

It was not Muslims in traditional garb who hijacked those planes on 9/11, and it certainly was not Muslim women in veils and wheelchairs. If anything, an Islamist terrorist wants to blend in, not stand out.

However, it was not a traditional sort of terrorist attack I feared in this case, but perhaps something unexpected: a traditional Muslim woman in a veil, confined to a wheelchair, who was loaded with explosives.

That may make me guilty of an overactive imagination, but perhaps not. Not that many years later, a young Muslim on an international flight into Detroit tried to light explosives in his underwear.

I mention all this for one main reason. I grew up surrounded by Islamic culture, went to Islamic events, and was used to seeing women in traditional Muslim clothing, and yet when that woman appeared at the Berlin airport, I was scared.

That's all Mr. Williams was saying. He didn't say that they should be removed from the plane, treated differently, or anything close to that. He simply said he got nervous. And for that, he was fired.

The reality is that when Muslims cease to be the main perpetrators of terrorism in the world, such fears about traditional garb are bound to vanish. Until such time, the anxiety will remain. In the long run, it's what we do with such fears that matters, not that we have them.

But regarding what happened to Mr. Williams, no one should tolerate such intolerant behavior on the part of NPR. This broadcast network is paid for by the American taxpayers, and as such we all have a stake in its decisions.

Anyone who cares about freedom of speech should protest what has been done to this decent and fair man. And even if that were not the case, even if Mr. Williams' views made him a detestable ogre to most, he still has the right to voice them. For many Americans, NPR's consistent tilt to the left has caused them to reject it as a viable source of news.

NPR often embodies the very things it claims to stand against: unfairness, narrow-mindedness and reactionary policies.

I ask all Americans of conscience, most particularly those of Arab and/or Muslim descent, to protest the firing of Juan Williams and to demand that public funding to NPR cease until Mr. Williams's good name has been cleared and he has been rehired (if he still wants to work for this network).

We deserve better from a public radio network funded by taxpayer money.

[MannyIsGod]

So Juan Williams himself sees his firing for what it was.

[boutons_deux]

So the Repug/Fox Repug Propaganda network's Muslim-baiting, Islamophobia, xenophobia is paying off.

Excellent! The VRWC always raises the bar and moves society forward.

And now Fox Repug Network has its token conservative Uncle Tom, like the SCOTUS has its Uncle Tom.

Let's all give a paranoid cheer for the liberal bias that dominates the media.

[MannyIsGod]

I find the rate at which this country views "bigots" in such black and white terms, simply because of their natural reactions to certain stimuli, quite alarming. People completely ignore the natural psychological aspects of these things. Seeing Muslims in religious clothing at an airport brings rushing to the front, memories of 9/11 and ideas of extremists. It appears many repress or even deny having these thoughts, but I find that extremely hard to believe. Humans naturally associate former learning with new stimuli, which is why you have people railing against the GZ mosque, and feeling a bit uneasy around traditional Muslims at airports.

It's not bigotry, by and large. It's a human reaction, which must then be repressed voluntarily.

I watched the horrors of 9/11 too. I'm no fan of Al Queda. Why don't I experience fear when I see Muslims boarding an airplane?

[boutons_deux]

NPR gets almost nothing from the feds, and local affiliates get only 10% from NPR.

Defund ACORN, defund NPR, and keeping subsidizing oil/coal/gas and bullshit/bogus wars. Got it. What a fucking screwed up country.

[MannyIsGod]

I'm glad you brought up ACORN because my thoughts yesterday were that NPR was about to get the ACORN treatment.

[z0sa]

"The reality is that when Muslims cease to be the main perpetrators of terrorism in the world, such fears about traditional garb are bound to vanish."

While those who "fear" are undoubtedly branded Islamophobes, this is exactly what I'm getting at. Most Americans realize the robed Muslims on their planes aren't going to hijack their plane or be associated with terrorism. It doesn't stop their brains from rushing "Muslim extremist terrorist 9/11 airplane hijackers" to their thought center and releasing neurotransmitters like adrenaline.

[z0sa]

I watched the horrors of 9/11 too. I'm no fan of Al Queda. Why don't I experience fear when I see Muslims boarding an airplane?

Because you are more level headed than most Americans. That doesn't make them bigots by default.

Although Mr. Williams made a very poor choice announcing his irrationality to the general public, I daresay in a normal everyday conversation such words would go essentially unnoticed.

[MannyIsGod]

Because you are more level headed than most Americans. That doesn't make them bigots by default.

I disagree but if we want to discard the word bigot for the sake of the argument then whatever as long as people acknowledge its a problem. Its not the label that matters but what is being labeled that matters and the word bigot is apparently a huge thorn in people's sides.

[z0sa]

Okay, whether he's a bigot or not, I don't think he acted unnaturally. Irrationally, sure, maybe even Islamophobically. But for some, that is a natural reaction, not rooted in hate or bigotry or whatever, but a sneaking fear based on primal and biochemical urges. It's not a "black and white", cut and dry situation, is all I'm saying.

He made a bad choice announcing these things out, though. It almost sounds as if he was looking for a way out of his old job.

[DarrinS]

I watched the horrors of 9/11 too. I'm no fan of Al Queda. Why don't I experience fear when I see Muslims boarding an airplane?


Because you're an extra-brave little weatherman.

[MannyIsGod]

Okay, whether he's a bigot or not, I don't think he acted unnaturally. Irrationally, sure, maybe even Islamophobically. But for some, that is a natural reaction, not rooted in hate or bigotry or whatever, but a sneaking fear based on primal and biochemical urges. It's not a "black and white", cut and dry situation, is all I'm saying.

He made a bad choice announcing these things out, though. It almost sounds as if he was looking for a way out of his old job.

Thats such a cop out, in my opinion. EVERY feeling or decision we have has its roots in biochemical reaction. I refuse to just chalk this up to that. I'm not disputing what you are saying, but I am saying we need to expect more from ourselves.

In essence, I agree with what you're saying and your rationalization but I also don't think its simply 9/11 that causes these type of feelings but rather our societies view of Muslims in general which I believe to be severely flawed. I think the fact that Darrin points out above how our entire society views black people in a subconscious negative light is the exact same situation.

If his reaction was based on conditioning - and I believe it is - then thats a problem.


-------

I started writing this some time ago then a patient came in and I lost my train of thought. :lol

[Spurminator]

People are so PC-sensitive about the word "bigot."

[z0sa]

Conditioning certainly is the major player. Yet that's not entirely our media or society to blame, is it? When every terrorist threat we fear generally holds one common denominator: they're from an extremist Muslim sect?

However small a percentage, those extremely rotten apples caused the outlook on Islam to sour for Americans, especially concerning our flights (and the fact we've waged two wars over 9/11 can't ever be dismissed). Should every Muslim be branded now? Of course not, and feeling queasy for any discernible ideological reasoning is definitely bigotry. But airplanes and Muslims is a word association some Americans feel queasy making, solely because of the way we're wired, IMO.

[MannyIsGod]

Because you're an extra-brave little weatherman.

I'm at a loss as to why you continue to try to insult me by pointing out I'm majoring in meteorology but I do find it funny. Carry on.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm at a loss as to why you continue to try to insult me by pointing out I'm majoring in meteorology but I do find it funny. Carry on.It's funnier because he's doing it while "working."

[DarrinS]

I'm at a loss as to why you continue to try to insult me by pointing out I'm majoring in meteorology but I do find it funny. Carry on.


Hey, I'm just joking. I actually think it's a cool profession. They didn't have that as a major where I went to school.

[SnakeBoy]

What point was he making, in your view?

Well remember the context of his conversation was concerning O'Reilly's comment that "Muslims killed us on 9/11". He went on to say (paraphrasing) that we still need to keep in mind that muslims have equal constitutional rights and we shouldn't lump all muslims together bla bla bla. Nothing bigoted at all in his comments.

[Winehole23]

Again, Marra Liasson is toast.Don't know why not but she's not. Apparently, consistency is the hobgoblin of bitchy minds.

[Winehole23]

Well remember the context of his conversation was concerning O'Reilly's comment that "Muslims killed us on 9/11". He went on to say (paraphrasing) that we still need to keep in mind that muslims have equal constitutional rights and we shouldn't lump all muslims together bla bla bla. Nothing bigoted at all in his comments.Maybe not. That's sort of a side point so I'll cede to your better judgment on that.

[BlairForceDejuan]

The only thing that makes me angry with this entire story is that he gets a $2mil contract from FOX. Damn son. 2 million dollars to state the obvious for 10 mins a day.

[boutons_deux]

"muslims have equal constitutional rights"

.. except when they, or any group, are fear-mongered and slandered into unpopularity, then all "rights" are nullified. The US Muslims are getting lynched exactly like blacks were.

"70% of Americans" doesn't mean a poll can negate Constitutional rights, especially when the Constitution unambiguously (no 2nd Amendment commas!) and forcefully protected the right to practice of religion.

Right-wingers fake their love for the Constitution unless the results aren't "popular" with them.