Yale Univeristy. No means yes, yes means anal

[jack sommerset]

Aww, to see the next young educated kids at work just warms my heart.

Yale Frat Pledges Chant “No Means Yes, Yes Means Anal”


Lest you think that rape culture is confined to simply excellent institutions of higher education, Salon reports that Yale students pledging the Delta Kappa Epsilon fraternity were marched by women’s dorms marching “no means yes, yes means anal.” Salon’s Tracy Clark-Flory writes:

Now, DKE President Jordan Forney has been forced to apologize for this blatant sexual intimidation by calling it “a serious lapse in judgment by the fraternity and in very poor taste.” But this sort of hateful crap isn’t a “lapse in judgment.” It doesn’t innocently happen that you’re guiding male pledges by young women’s dorms in the dark of night chanting about anal rape. It isn’t a forehead-slapping slip-up, it’s a sign that you need major reprogramming as a human being.

UPDATE: Sociologist Michael Kimmel has a fantastic analysis of the second half of the chant:

This chant assumes that anal sex is not pleasurable for women; that if she says yes to intercourse, you have to go further to an activity that you experience as degrading to her, dominating to her, not pleasurable to her. This second chant is a necessary corollary to the first.
Thanks to feminism, women have claimed the ability to say both “no” and “yes.” Not only have women come to believe that “No Means No,” that they have a right to not be assaulted and raped, but also that they have a right to say “yes” to their own desires, their own sexual agency. Feminism enabled women to find their own sexual voice.
…
This is confusing to many men, who see sex not as mutual pleasuring, but about the “girl hunt,” a chase, a conquest. She says no, he breaks down her resistance. Sex is a zero-sum game. He wins if she puts out; she loses.
That women can like sex, and especially like good sex, and are capable of evaluating their partners changes the landscape. If women say “yes,” where’s the conquest, where’s the chase, where’s the pleasure? And where’s the feeling that your victory is her defeat? What if she is doing the scoring, not you?

Thus the “Yes Means Anal” part of the chant. Sex has become unsafe for men–women are agentic and evaluate our performances. So if “No Means Yes” attempts to make what is safe for women unsafe, then “Yes Means Anal” makes what is experienced as unsafe for men again safe–back in that comfort zone of conquest and victory. Back to something that is assumed could not possibly be pleasurable for her. It makes the unsafe safe–for men.
In this way, we can see the men of DKE at Yale not as a bunch of angry predators, asserting their dominance, but as a more pathetic bunch of guys who see themselves as powerless losers, trying to re-establish a sexual landscape which they feel has been thrown terribly off its axis.
For more indications that we live in a rape culture, see our posts on media coverage of a rape video game and the George Sodini murders, rapists as hyperconformists to ideal masculinity, the rape scene in Observe and Report, t-shirts endorsing sex with “drunk girls”, and, of course, the Purdue Exponent’s sex position of the week.

[vy65]

lol who the fuck cares

[ChumpDumper]

we can see the men of DKE at Yale not as a bunch of angry predators, asserting their dominance, but as a more pathetic bunch of guys who see themselves as powerless losers, trying to re-establish a sexual landscape which they feel has been thrown terribly off its axis.It's pretty much like when you call other men homosexual, jack.

[jack sommerset]

It's pretty much like when you call other men homosexual, jack.

Sure it is. Calling for anal rape is exactly the same, chump.

[ChumpDumper]

I'm a powerless loser.

[vy65]

Rape culture sounds like the best porno rag ever tbh

[jack sommerset]

Rape culture sounds like the best porno rag ever tbh

Sounds like you care.

[vy65]

Sounds like you care.

lol not really

agentic is not even a word btw

[jack sommerset]

I'm butthurt because I was anal raped. I thought no meant no. whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[ChumpDumper]

lol not really

agentic is not even a word btw:lol I was wondering about that one.

Apparently it just means they know the score.

[doobs]

I've said worse.

[ChumpDumper]

I didn't realize this article could be applied to me, so I'm illustrating just how accurate it is in describing me.Thanks.

That was hilariously predictable.

[jack sommerset]

Anal rape is nothing to laugh at, I couldn't shit right for a week

:lmao

[vy65]

:lol I was wondering about that one.

Apparently it just means they know the score.

lol nice

seriously, I wanna find out about Rape! the video game. Anyone know if its out on PS3 yet?

[ChumpDumper]

See what a powerless loser I am? I couldn't be more insecure if I tried.

And I try.:lmao

[Homeland Security]

Left-wing women deserve rape to the point of fistula.

[Crookshanks]

What a sick thread.

[Stringer_Bell]

When I saw this story on TV, I couldn't help but lmao, tbh.

The stupid women lawyers talking about the pledges comitting hate crimes against women, terrorizing the girls into thinking they are going to be gang raped...what bullshit.

[Jekka]

In this way, we can see the men of DKE at Yale not as a bunch of angry predators, asserting their dominance, but as a more pathetic bunch of guys who see themselves as powerless losers, trying to re-establish a sexual landscape which they feel has been thrown terribly off its axis.
How are they not both? It's no secret that rape is a crime of power, but that doesn't mean it isn't predatory.


Left-wing women deserve rape to the point of fistula.
Go rot in troll hell.

[MiamiHeat]

LMAO.

They were just joking. These older people of today don't understand young culture, in particular, internet culture.

It's not serious....just jokes

[FkTL]

anal sex is unsafe for both.

[Jekka]

It's not serious....just jokes
Hilarious.

[MiamiHeat]

Hilarious.

It is hilarious.

I use the "woman, what are u doing out of the kitchen?" and "make me a sandwich" lines all the time.

yet i am not actually serious. just having fun

lighten up and dont take yourself so seriously

[Jekka]

You may not be "serious" about thinking rape is funny, but the fact that you think that this kind of "joke" is "young culture, in particular, internet culture" is fucking depressing.

Of course a man who is not traditionally in a position to have to worry about being a victim of sexual assault may be able to laugh at this because it's not a credible threat. Having worked in sexual assault crisis intervention, where the vast majority of survivors that I counseled were assaulted by people they knew (in particular the workplace and school), and being of the gender that is more often the target of assaults like this, I happen to think that it's not "hilarious."

YOUR youth and YOUR internet may revolve around the world of hetero-male privilege, but your generalization of what youth and the internet have become is either offensively faulty or horrific in its small grain of truth.

[MiamiHeat]

You may not be "serious" about thinking rape is funny, but the fact that you think that this kind of "joke" is "young culture, in particular, internet culture" is fucking depressing.

Of course a man who is not traditionally in a position to have to worry about being a victim of sexual assault may be able to laugh at this because it's not a credible threat. Having worked in sexual assault crisis intervention, where the vast majority of survivors that I counseled were assaulted by people they knew (in particular the workplace and school), and being of the gender that is more often the target of assaults like this, I happen to think that it's not "hilarious."

YOUR youth and YOUR internet may revolve around the world of hetero-male privilege, but your generalization of what youth and the internet have become is either offensively faulty or horrific in its small grain of truth.

:lmao

[MiamiHeat]

h5Pbmx9PeYI

[Cry Havoc]

YOUR youth and YOUR internet may revolve around the world of hetero-male privilege, but your generalization of what youth and the internet have become is either offensively faulty or horrific in its small grain of truth.

I agree with what you say about sensitivity being important in certain instances, but at the same time, neither myself nor (presumably) MiamiHeat would ever sexually assault a woman. Is it a joke I would ever make? Probably not. Is it something I still find absurd and humorous at the same time? Sure. I've heard women chanting it before during sports contests, because they find humor in it too.

If people are going to make jokes about 9/11 and Katrina (where thousands of people died, mind you) why do you think you have a case to have this labeled as off-limits to joke about by societal mores? It's just not going to happen, and flailing against people who are just pointing out the humor, even in poor taste, will do no good for the cause. Instead you're going to come across as condescending and antagonistic, which stands little chance of helping your cause and actually a greater probability that people reading the thread will just disregard whatever you have to say.

It's like yelling at an upstanding citizen for owning a handgun because they're used to murder people, even though he's never committed a crime. If you want me to apologize for having a dick, I can, but I'm not sure why that would be a comfort to you. Humor is one way we deal with discomfort, stress, and tragedy.

[vy65]

YOUR youth and YOUR internet may revolve around the world of hetero-male privilege, but your generalization of what youth and the internet have become is either offensively faulty or horrific in its small grain of truth.

lol angry lesbian.

[Cry Havoc]

Oh, and I was actually re-reading your post and caught this awesome response:


Of course a man who is not traditionally in a position to have to worry about being a victim of sexual assault may be able to laugh at this because it's not a credible threat. Having worked in sexual assault crisis intervention, where the vast majority of survivors that I counseled were assaulted by people they knew (in particular the workplace and school), and being of the gender that is more often the target of assaults like this, I happen to think that it's not "hilarious."

If you have a background in the field, then you shouldn't be making statements like, "Well of course men don't have to worry about sexual assault". That is an equally as insensitive as you are accusing other people in this thread of being. Perhaps even more so, because where as we realize that "No means yes, etc." is 100% joking, you seem to be taking your token statement with absolute sincerity. Which is absurd. Men are sexually assaulted every day in the US, and instead of having a nice cozy sympathy net to catch them and help them through the process, they face ostracism and scorn even from police officers to which they report the crime, to say nothing of the devastating psychological ramifications that every person faces, men get the added bonus of being laughed at by society.

It's amazing how flippant you can be about respecting men, and then expect us in the same breath to be sensitive and compassionate toward gender-specific sexual assault. Do a little research and you'll find volumes of information about cases of sexual assault in men and the societal pressures they have to overcome to deal with it, to say nothing of the mark it leaves on them.

Is it funny? No. Is there still humor to be found in the situations? Well, if people laugh at death, why would this (termed lovingly by the internet as "surprise sex") stop them? Doctors joke about patients dying on a daily basis, as it's the only way to get by. Are you going to run into hospitals and scream at them for being insensitive because they have ~500 humorous acronyms/terms to describe people who are in mortal danger?

By the way, if you ever hear about a doctor discussing an air-conditioner, chances are they aren't talking about a window unit. They're stating that a guy is so full of bullet holes you can practically see through him.

[clambake]

jack was assaulted. this thread is a cry for help.

[Jekka]

Oh, and I was actually re-reading your post and caught this awesome response:



If you have a background in the field, then you shouldn't be making statements like, "Well of course men don't have to worry about sexual assault". That is an equally as insensitive as you are accusing other people in this thread of being. Perhaps even more so, because where as we realize that "No means yes, etc." is 100% joking, you seem to be taking your token statement with absolute sincerity. Which is absurd. Men are sexually assaulted every day in the US, and instead of having a nice cozy sympathy net to catch them and help them through the process, they face ostracism and scorn even from police officers to which they report the crime, to say nothing of the devastating psychological ramifications that every person faces, men get the added bonus of being laughed at by society.

It's amazing how flippant you can be about respecting men, and then expect us in the same breath to be sensitive and compassionate toward gender-specific sexual assault. Do a little research and you'll find volumes of information about cases of sexual assault in men and the societal pressures they have to overcome to deal with it, to say nothing of the mark it leaves on them.

Is it funny? No. Is there still humor to be found in the situations? Well, if people laugh at death, why would this (termed lovingly by the internet as "surprise sex") stop them? Doctors joke about patients dying on a daily basis, as it's the only way to get by. Are you going to run into hospitals and scream at them for being insensitive because they have ~500 humorous acronyms/terms to describe people who are in mortal danger?

By the way, if you ever hear about a doctor discussing an air-conditioner, chances are they aren't talking about a window unit. They're stating that a guy is so full of bullet holes you can practically see through him.
That's a whole lot of inferences that you just made about me and the work that I did.

There is a reason that I said "traditionally." I know that men are sexually assaulted - I responded to many of those cases when I was working in the field. However, "traditionally," because those cases aren't nearly as publicized or normalized in the way that assault against women is, men don't tend to live with the same consciousness about it that women do. I was by no means marginalizing male cases of sexual assault, just pointing out that women tend to be more fearful of it in general. If anything, were a man and a woman subjected to the same assault, a man would probably be more traumatized because it IS more "shameful" in the eyes of social construct (which, incidentally, isn't helped by the misunderstanding that sexual assault is a crime of desire instead of one of power - and the nonstop "banter" of cracks on homosexuality in places like this forum).

With regards to your comment about doctors joking about patients dying, I can tell you that in a place like a rape crisis center the humor tends to be pretty dark, because humor IS a great coping mechanism and source for camaraderie, but I never heard anyone make a joke about rape. Not feeling bad for a perpetrator who's getting his pubic hair yanked out for a rape kit? Sure. Schadenfreude when watching officers take a cheap shot on a rapist on SVU? Sure. But we never made light of the suffering that sexual assault survivors endure. I'm pretty sure that none of the other advocates or nurses or survivors with whom I worked would ever call me "flippant."

[MannyIsGod]

lol angry lesbian.

:lol