Oklahoma Gets set to Vote on Sharia~ Muslims Whine

[jack sommerset]

LoL...More muslim bigots.

http://loganswarning.com/2010/10/21/oklahoma-gets-set-to-vote-on-sharia-muslims-whine-video/

Here is the latest update to the “Oklahoma Rep. Duncan calls for Preemptive Strike on Sharia!!~ Video” story. The people of Oklahoma get set to vote in less than two weeks, and the Council on American Islamic Relations (CAIR), whose goal is to dominate us by Sharia is not happy.

“It’s not about Shariah law at all. It’s really about anti-Muslim bigotry,” says Razi Hashimi, spokesperson for CAIR.

Muslim Americans say the measure sends a message of hatred and intolerance and non-Muslims should not be concerned about Shariah law.

“As long as it doesn’t affect you in any way, why should you be concerned how I solve a problem between me and my brother, or neighbor who is Muslim. I do not think it should be a matter of concern for a non-Muslim,” says Tulsan Mohamed Boudhhir.

Nice try Razi, but it is about Sharia Law Did you forget this statement?

“Those who stay in America should be open to society without melting, keeping Mosques open so anyone can come and learn about Islam. If you choose to live here, you have a responsibility to deliver the message of Islam … Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the
only accepted religion on Earth.”

It is nice to see a politician that knows what CAIR is all about. Will the people of Oklahoma do the right thing, and follow in the footsteps of Louisiana? Lets hope so.

[ChumpDumper]

What specifically is being voted?

Thanks in advance for fully explaining this issue you found so important that you had to start a thread about it.

[Spurminator]

.

[jack sommerset]

Your welcome.

You know why they are doing this don't you? It's going to piss you off big time. Because they can.

Our laws tell these muslims they can't rape married women then kill them for cheating on their husbands for example. Sooner country is just reminded them what country they live in.

Kind of like when I tell you are insecure and petty. Just a little reminder.

[MannyIsGod]

Your welcome.

You know why they are doing this don't you? It's going to piss you off big time. Because they can.

Our laws tell these muslims they can't rape married women then kill them for cheating on their husbands for example. Sooner country is just reminded them what country they live in.

Kind of like when I tell you are insecure and petty. Just a little reminder.

Oh shit the irony is rich here. :lmao

[ChumpDumper]

Your welcome.

You know why they are doing this don't you? It's going to piss you off big time. Because they can.

Our laws tell these muslims they can't rape married women then kill them for cheating on their husbands for example. Sooner country is just reminded them what country they live in.

Kind of like when I tell you are insecure and petty. Just a little reminder.You didn't answer the question.

What specifically is being voted?

[RandomGuy]

Yeah, what is being voted on here?

Seems like whatever it is would have to be very carefully worded to avoid 1st amendment smackdowns.

Probably some kind of stupid "non-binding resolution", I would guess.

[jack sommerset]

You didn't answer the question.

I did in a round about way. That's pretty much what you are going to from me, Mr. Petty.

[ChumpDumper]

I did in a round about way. That's pretty much what you are going to from me get Mr. Petty.Well, you probably don't even know what the vote is about.

You probably don't even know what the word "specific" means.

And if you do, you are too petty and insecure to actually answer the question.

[RandomGuy]

“Those who stay in America should be open to society without melting, keeping Mosques open so anyone can come and learn about Islam. If you choose to live here, you have a responsibility to deliver the message of Islam … Islam isn’t in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Koran, the Muslim book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and Islam the
only accepted religion on Earth.”


Interesting quote. Attributed to a guy who says he didn't say it, but the reporter who transcribed it sticks to her story.


"Those who stay in America should be open to society without melting, keeping Churches open so anyone can come and learn about Christ. If you choose to live here, you have a responsibility to deliver the message of Christ … Christ isn’t in America to be equal to any other faiths, but to become dominant. The Bilble, the holy book of scripture, should be the highest authority in America, and the Word of Jesus Christ our savior the only accepted religion on Earth"

That is the scary thing to me about religion. Almost invariably they shoot for, but won't admit to, wanting to squash all other non-believers.

It would not surprise me that the quote was genuine. By the same token, I have ZERO doubt that similar sentiments, indeed almost word for word, have been uttered by Christian zealots. Hell, I probably woudn't have to work too hard to find similar actual quotes.

[RandomGuy]

I did in a round about way. That's pretty much what you are going to from me get Mr. Petty.

Aw, come on. Don't be lazy like that.

Gimmie.

[jack sommerset]

Well, you probably don't even know what the vote is about.

You probably don't even know what the word "specific" means.

And if you do, you are too petty and insecure to actually answer the question.

Obviously this topic is important to you. If you want specifics you should look it up. Don't let your pettiness get in the way of thirst for knowledge.

[ChumpDumper]

Obviously this topic is important to you.You started a thread about it.
If you want specifics you should look it up.Eh. KI have my answer.

You're either stupid or petty and insecure.

Or both.

Probably both.

You just proved it because you are too stupid and/or petty and insecure to give a simple straight answer to a question regarding the subject of a thread you started.

Don't let your pettiness get in the way of thirst for knowledge.So it's not that important to you after all.

Not compared to being petty and insecure.

[Trainwreck2100]

so nobody knows what's being voted on?

[ChumpDumper]

jack is afraid that 1% of Oklahoma's population is going to impose their religious law on the other 99%

[RandomGuy]

Since Jack is a lazy shit, I found "State question 755" for the Oklahoma ballot:

http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.php/Oklahoma_%22Sharia_Law_Amendment%22,_State_Questio n_755_(2010)




This measure amends the State Constitution. It changes a section that deals with the courts of this state. It would amend Article 7, Section 1. It makes courts rely on federal and state law when deciding cases. It forbids courts from considering or using international law. It forbids courts from considering or using Sharia Law.
International law is also known as the law of nations. It deals with the conduct of international organizations and independent nations, such as countries, states and tribes. It deals with their relationship with each other. It also deals with some of their relationships with persons.

The law of nations is formed by the general assent of civilized nations. Sources of international law also include international agreements, as well as treaties.

Sharia Law is Islamic law. It is based on two principal sources, the Koran and the teaching of Mohammed.

Shall the proposal be approved?

For the proposal

Yes: __________

Against the proposal

No: __________

Here is the full text:

https://www.sos.ok.gov/documents/questions/755.pdf


If you actually read section C of the above pdf it is pretty explicit about the complete exclusion of Sharia law.

I have little doubt it will probably pass in Oklahoma.

I have even less doubt that it will be struck down as unconstitutional shortly thereafter.

I would lastly point out that the guy proposing this that was interviewed for the news piece in the OP directly lied about the CARE mission statement. He probably didn't know he was lying, but was simply ignorant.

I would note the big ugly quote at the beginning is NOT the CARE mission statement, however much the xenophobes running the show wish it were.

[Bender]

let there be stonings, yay!!!

[fyatuk]

I have even less doubt that it will be struck down as unconstitutional shortly thereafter.

Why? Sharia isn't really an approved set of laws in the US, and it's not preventing people from basically doing Sharia arbitration, only denies it's application in State courts.

If anything, the exclusion of Sharia follows through in the overly ambitious interpretation of the Separation of Church and State.

I don't see how it makes a difference, since I doubt there are many people in judicial positions in Oklahoma who would be enough of a scholar to actually make judgments based on Sharia.

[Winehole23]

If people agree to be bound by religious law and its regulations concerning marriage, property and social relations, when a dispute arises disputants (generally) submit to church law or equivalent authority, and the civil law (generally) respects the results, no?

[Winehole23]

Otherwise, constituted authority may tend to create the impression that it is interfering arbitrarily or unduly with religion.

[Winehole23]

As in Oklahoma. Way to go OK.
















(golf clap)

[ElNono]

I think the bit about international law/treaties actually goes against the Supremacy Clause (Article IV, Section 2) of the Constitution...

This Constitution, and the Laws of the United States which shall be made in Pursuance thereof; and all Treaties made, or which shall be made, under the Authority of the United States, shall be the supreme Law of the Land; and the Judges in every State shall be bound thereby, any Thing in the Constitution or Laws of any State to the Contrary notwithstanding.

The shall part making it compulsory...

[Winehole23]

I think the bit about international law/treaties actually goes against the Supremacy Clause (Article IV, Section 2) of the Constitution..What bit, please? You just lost me...

[ChuckD]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

[fyatuk]

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

This law doesn't limit the excercise of religion, since it only denies Sharia in the Courts under state authority. It doesn't prevent private arbitration under Sharia, etc.

Allowing the courts to recognize Sharia could be seen as establishing a state religion, since Sharia by definition is religious law.

[boutons_deux]

The UK allows Sharia law if the citizens agree, completely voluntary.

Church law is already in force in Christian churches, if the members submit to it. Same would be true of Sharia law with a Muslim institution. Of course, Sharia law like honor killings, acid face washes, de-nosing, genital mutilation would still be governed by secular laws.

hmm, people mutilate themselves all the time with piercings, tatoos, nose and earlobe insertions, but that's ok with tea baggers.

[TeyshaBlue]

I'm pretty sure the Native American nations do a fair amount of self-governing. The Sharia exclusion seems like it would be in direct opposition to what already exists in vast portions of Oklahoma. Odd that they, of all states, wouldn't have the ability to properly place this in context.

Retards.

[fyatuk]

I'm pretty sure the Native American nations do a fair amount of self-governing. The Sharia exclusion seems like it would be in direct opposition to what already exists in vast portions of Oklahoma. Odd that they, of all states, wouldn't have the ability to properly place this in context.

Retards.

Technically the reservations are not part of the US (more like protectorates) or subject to their laws per US treaties. It's also why the reservations don't get much in the way of federal help.

Completely different situation.

[TeyshaBlue]

Technically the reservations are not part of the US (more like protectorates) or subject to their laws per US treaties. It's also why the reservations don't get much in the way of federal help.

Completely different situation.

The reservations get tons of federal aid. I'm not sure where you're getting that info.

The Bureau of Indian Affairs would be a good place to start your research.

[fyatuk]

The reservations get tons of federal aid. I'm not sure where you're getting that info.

The Bureau of Indian Affairs would be a good place to start your research.

$2.4 billion for 310 reservations = $7.8 million per reservation.

Majority of reservations need a LOT of improvements to be livable by most people's standards.

Meanwhile, $50+ billion in federal aid to foreign countries....

Irrelevant to the topic at hand, anyway.

[Oh, Gee!!]

how is this going to be enforced exactly without running the risk of the executive or legislative policing the judicial branch? It seems like an intrusion into seperate powers of the judicial branch of OK. It also seems like a meaningless gesture done to bring out a certain type of voter to voting booth (like when a bunch of states put constitutional amendments outlawing gay marriages during Bush's second campaign). Really, what are the chances that any court in OK is regularly relying on Sharia to resolve a disputed case. I mean, maybe mediators there approve agreements between parties based on Sharia, but how often does even that happen? It's more than likely a made up issue to rally the bigots to vote (R).

[MannyIsGod]

I'm pretty sure the Native American nations do a fair amount of self-governing. The Sharia exclusion seems like it would be in direct opposition to what already exists in vast portions of Oklahoma. Odd that they, of all states, wouldn't have the ability to properly place this in context.

Retards.


Except we know thats not whats being voted on. You might as well frame the question on the ballot as do you like Muslims or not.

[Drachen]

$2.4 billion for 310 reservations = $7.8 million per reservation.

Majority of reservations need a LOT of improvements to be livable by most people's standards.

Meanwhile, $50+ billion in federal aid to foreign countries....

Irrelevant to the topic at hand, anyway.

So about 3k/person? I guess that is kinda low.

[Jekka]

Technically the reservations are not part of the US (more like protectorates) or subject to their laws per US treaties. It's also why the reservations don't get much in the way of federal help.

Completely different situation.

All reservations are subject to federal law - it's why fugitives can't just hide out there and claim sanctuary when the FBI comes calling. I'm pretty sure anyone at Wounded Knee would tell you that.

They don't get much in the way of federal help because it's not an issue that voters care about, and there's not a strong lobby.

[fyatuk]

All reservations are subject to federal law - it's why fugitives can't just hide out there and claim sanctuary when the FBI comes calling. I'm pretty sure anyone at Wounded Knee would tell you that.

They don't get much in the way of federal help because it's not an issue that voters care about, and there's not a strong lobby.

Not completely. The more serious federal crimes are handled by the federal government (like murder, etc), but mostly they are allowed to operate themselves as they see fit on the reservations.

But yeah, as far as I know, no fugitives should be able to hide out on reservations.

I was a little off there.

[TeyshaBlue]

Except we know thats not whats being voted on. You might as well frame the question on the ballot as do you like Muslims or not.

Exactly. That they produce a ballot initiative period, demonstrates some willfull ignorance on their part.

[ChumpDumper]

I have to wonder how many matters of first impression are actually ruled upon by Oklahoma courts, and which judges ruling in those cases would look to Shiara for guidance.

I'm going to go with almost zero and zero, respectively.

[TeyshaBlue]

So about 3k/person? I guess that is kinda low.

You've got to look at how the spending is tallied. It's not a common tax dollar/citizen relationship that you would apply to the rest of the country. For example, there is alot of subsidization of various corps that operate on reservations or hire Native American workers. You won't see those dollars tallied in a straight line comparison. In fact, during the 70's and 80's, spending per captia was slightly higher per Native American than for the rest of the American citizenry. The kicker was that much of that spending was used to feed the various Federal agencies that administer to that population.

[TeyshaBlue]

I have to wonder how many matters of first impression are actually ruled upon by Oklahoma courts, and which judges ruling in those cases would look to Shiara for guidance.

I'm going to go with almost zero and zero, respectively.

lolz..pretty much.

[ElNono]

What bit, please? You just lost me...

The post RandomGuy made as actual wording from the ballot:

The law of nations is formed by the general assent of civilized nations. Sources of international law also include international agreements, as well as treaties.

State courts are compelled to treat such treaties as 'the Law of the Land' per Article IV.

[Winehole23]

Gotcha. Thx.

[MannyIsGod]

WH, your new avatar is fucking me up.

[Winehole23]

Like the weather in south central Texas, my avatar is subject to sudden change.

[Winehole23]

http://cdn.gigya.com/wildfire/i/CIMP.gif?CXNID=2000002.0NXC
http://b.scorecardresearch.com/p?c1=2&c2=6034695&c3=&c4=&c5=&c6=&c15=&cj=1





http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm33/mrclutch_album/TTM/img524.jpg

[Winehole23]

http://cache3.asset-cache.net/xc/81354870.jpg?v=1&c=IWSAsset&k=2&d=77BFBA49EF8789215ABF3343C02EA54826128B68BB3962F7 61DD1F0EB4721B7E20E563455CEA5130

[Winehole23]

A federal appeals court has blocked an Oklahoma voter-approved measure barring state judges from considering Islamic and international law in their decisions.

The three-judge panel at the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals upheld an earlier injunction preventing State Question 755 from being certified until the free speech questions are resolved. The decision Tuesday allows a lawsuit brought by Islamic-American groups to move ahead to a bench trial.
http://edition.cnn.com/2012/01/10/justice/oklahoma-sharia/index.html

[RandomGuy]

Your welcome.

You know why they are doing this don't you? It's going to piss you off big time. Because they can.

Our laws tell these muslims they can't rape married women then kill them for cheating on their husbands for example. Sooner country is just reminded them what country they live in.

Kind of like when I tell you are insecure and petty. Just a little reminder.


Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.


You idiot.

[TDMVPDPOY]

if they want their own laws, tell them to fck off back to where they came from

[RandomGuy]

if they want their own laws, tell them to fck off back to where they came from

Muslims are not the only religious group with their own religious codes that function somewhat like civil laws.

Orthodox jews have their own peculiar sets of edicts as well.


Meh, I have no problem with silly leftover "laws" from ancient superstitious belief systems, as long as they don't violate anybody else's rights.

[TDMVPDPOY]

america bending over taking it in the ass from the jews, now the muslim brotherhood wants america to bend over and adopt its sharia laws...

lol wankers who escaped their country of origin, forcing the new country which accepted them to bend over when it should be the other way around

[Trainwreck2100]

how is a law saying you can't use non laws in the process of upholding laws unconstitutional?

[Jacob1983]

Oklahoma has Muslims?