Question About the Opening Tip

[Obstructed_View]

This one's been bugging me for a while.

I'm watching the Spurs this year, and Manu is great at jumping in front of the other team and stealing the tip when the other team taps it into the frontcourt. While this should be an advantage for the Spurs, the other team gets the ball to open the third quarter, even though they technically "won" the tip. This seems senseless to me. If the team that controls the tip gets credit for the possession, why don't teams just set up their defense and let the other team have it, knowing they get to bring the ball up in the third quarter?

Does this make any sense? I don't see the point in bothering to jump the ball since it seems impossible to gain anything from it. I'm not big on rule changes, but wouldn't it make more sense to award the third quarter ball to the team that loses the opening tip and then allow everyone to fight for it, or maybe to just jump it up again in the third quarter?

[Chris]

Are you high? :spin

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Does this make any sense?

No.

Take the points when you can get them. Manu gets them off the tip a lot.

I suspect also Pop likes to start the third playing defense, to get his adjustments going.

[BadlyDrawnBoy]

Because you get the ball at the start of the 4th.

[Dre_7]

Winner of the tip gets the ball at start of 1st (obviously :)) and 4th.
Loser of the tip gets the ball at the start of the 2nd and 3rd.

[Solid D]

To add to BadlyDrawnBoy's comment...

The rule in the NBA is whichever team gains control of the opening tip, establishes who gets the ball to start each of the next 3 periods. The controller of the opening tip gets the ball to start the 4th period. The team unable to control the opening tip gets the ball to start the 2nd and 3rd periods.

[Obstructed_View]

I guess I just don't see the significance of jumping the ball if you get to bring the ball up an equal number of times, but I also happen to root for the team with the biggest point differential in the league, so maybe I'm just spoiled as to how big a factor it is.

[GSH]

Does this make any sense? I don't see the point in bothering to jump the ball since it seems impossible to gain anything from it. I'm not big on rule changes, but wouldn't it make more sense to award the third quarter ball to the team that loses the opening tip and then allow everyone to fight for it, or maybe to just jump it up again in the third quarter?

It's not a matter of advantage - it's tradition. It's part of the religion of basketball.

If we allow them to get rid of the opening jump, what's next? No more face painting? No getting sloppy drunk on $5-a-cup draft beer before the 4th quarter cutoff? No more sneaking down into the empty expensive seats? Hell, the next thing you know someone will try to make us stop using rubber bands to shoot paper clips and ice cubes at the players on the opposing bench.

And what would they do to replace it? Just flip a coin and have one team in-bound the ball to start the game? So if you wanted to ask you buddy what time the game starts, you wouldn't say, "What time is tip-off?" you would say, "What time is in-bounds?" That doesn't have much of a ring to it, does it?

I'm sure you've realized by now that you didn't think this through too well before you brought it up. It's OK... we've all done it at one time or another. But the next time you think about suggesting a change to the religion of basketball, just because it doesn't make sense, consider what the fallout would be. I know it was just a suggestion, but it doesn't take much to upset the real purists. (Like me, for instance.) Better you should spend time on stem cell research, or repealing the seat belt law.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

I guess I just don't see the significance of jumping the ball if you get to bring the ball up an equal number of times,

It goes back to the days of Naismith and the peach baskets. Traditions in sports are a good thing.

what would you rather have them do? Flip a coin?

[spurster]

Jump balls would be good if the refs were any good at it. I think a jump ball first and possession arrow after that is a good system.

[Brodels]

The whole idea of having a jump ball at any time is questionable these days because the tip is usually stolen by being tapped while it's still on the way up. Unless the league and refs are willing to correct this, the jump ball will remain an outdated tradition of the past.

[GSH]

Wow... me and AggieHoopsFan on the same wavelength!

It's not a matter of advantage - it's tradition.
And what would they do to replace it? Just flip a coin...

It goes back to the days of Naismith and the peach baskets. Traditions in sports are a good thing.

what would you rather have them do? Flip a coin?

I feel a lot of love here, AHP. All it took was winning Game 1 on the road at Phoenix. It's scary to think what might happen if the Spurs go up 2-0. We might even... naah.

[TwoHandJam]

The whole idea of having a jump ball at any time is questionable these days because the tip is usually stolen by being tapped while it's still on the way up. Unless the league and refs are willing to correct this, the jump ball will remain an outdated tradition of the past.
Shaq gets away with this more than any other player in the league.

[MI21]

Jumpball stays for the start of the game, and for times when both players grab the ball on the floor etc. The possesion arrow is perhaps the single most retarded thing in any type of competition basketball.

That said, Brodels is right. They need to address the way players go for the tip, it should be about timing and jumping ability. The ball needs to be thrown up much higher and faster and the rule of not being able to touch the ball on the way up needs to be enforced. That way the people with the most jumping ability and the best timing will win the jumps, which is how it is supposed to be.

[Dre_7]

Shaq gets away with this more than any other player in the league.

Yeah but hes Shaq, so what are ya gonna do?

[Dre_7]

I guess I just don't see the significance of jumping the ball if you get to bring the ball up an equal number of times, but I also happen to root for the team with the biggest point differential in the league, so maybe I'm just spoiled as to how big a factor it is.

It doesnt matter. I believe Pop once said that "it doesnt mean crap" or something to that extent.

[Tek_XX]

Wow so much debate for something i never really thought about before.

Who really cares though as long as there is equal starting posessions. I have noticed that the Nazr and Rasho are not that good at the Jump ball

Interesting note, i was watching a little bit of the WNBA ponies last night and they have a jump ball at the start of the 1st and 2nd half, i wonder why there is a difference.

[Aggie Hoopsfan]

Yeah but hes Shaq, so what are ya gonna do?

Step on his foot.

[MI21]

Interesting note, i was watching a little bit of the WNBA ponies last night and they have a jump ball at the start of the 1st and 2nd half, i wonder why there is a difference.

Wow, surely you could of found something better to do. Scratch your eyes out, put your nuts in a vice, anything...

[Obstructed_View]

Jermaine O'Neal steals the tap a lot too. I don't remember the last time someone got whistled for it, at least on an opening tip.

For those of you "basketball purists" who feel like talking down to someone, I don't recall where I suggested they get rid of the opening tap. I've got no problem with tradition, but it might make more sense to have one at the beginning of the first and third quarter or to reward a team for hustling for a change like Manu does, especially since he's the only person in the entire NBA that seems to give a shit.

In spite of the thirty really stupid arguments about face painting, paper clips and terminology aside, I have actually thought about this for a long time. The officials suck at throwing the ball up; many of them clearly don't practice it, and they don't take it seriously enough to whistle people for stealing it, and in the end nobody gets an advantage no matter what they do, so why bother if nobody cares but me and Manu? Make it an important part of the game if you care about it.

If tradition is the best anyone can come up with, and they don't do it right anyway, that's kind of a lame reason to waste time with it. A small change makes it more competetive, and makes it a more important part of the game, which is what the "basketball purists" should want anyway. It's a hell of a lot better than defensive three seconds or moving in the three point line or some of the other idiotic crap they've done to try to make the game more competetive.

Oh, well. At least the NBA still jumps up the ball on tie-ups. I absolutely hate the posession arrow. I think it's one of the worst ideas in sports.

[Obstructed_View]

Wow, surely you could of found something better to do. Scratch your eyes out, put your nuts in a vice, anything...
LOL. Okay, if the WNBA does it, forget I mentioned it. :)