Will Joe Johnson's return make a difference?

[SPARKY]

At first glance one is inclined to think not, but his return would give the Suns one more weapon, one more variable to think about. While the Spurs were able to contain Marion in game 1, what happens when both Johnson and Marion are out there? With Joe Johnson back then Phoenix will have a bench again. Johnson's the type of player who could exploit some of the weaker links in the Spurs' D.

In game 1 the Suns had a 7 man rotation with 3 of their starting guards and forwards logging 40 minutes or more. This, after a number of their guys put up 50 minutes or more in their OT win at Dallas on Friday night. In some respects it's not surprising that the Spurs' have beaten the Suns at least twice this season by overpowering them in the 4th. The Suns seem to hit a physical wall by then.

Give them another athletic guy capable of playing 40 minutes, a guy shooting 51.9% from the field in the postseason (56.5% from 3), a decent rebounder, and a guy with some semblance of a midrange game tomorrow night and perhaps that is what the Suns will need to even up the series...

[TDMVPDPOY]

JJ wont make a difference, they should be more worried about the spurs deep bench, would havin rasho n brown back make a diff.....

[SPARKY]

Having an extra useful player would mean much more for the Suns at this point.

[BronxCowboy]

Johnson will make it more difficult, but I think the Spurs will adapt fine.

[Extra Stout]

How much can Johnson really be expected to contribute his first game back? Would he really be that effective?

[SPARKY]

I would think so unless his vision has been significantly impaired and/or he plays tentative. They're a better team with him than without.

[SWC Bonfire]

Did you answer your own question, Sparky?

Spurs will have to work harder in game 2, Johnson or no Johnson, simply because Phoenix will be fighting for their playoff lives.

[Rummpd]

Let the Big Dog eat!

[kskonn]

He will be effective, but i don't think it will be as much on offense as on defense. he is one of the players that the suns have that can play decent defense.

Adjusting to the Mask he will be wearing will not be easy. besides I don't think he will be getting the wide open shots that he got against Memphis and Dallas.

[SPARKY]

Joe Johnson is a threat to drive and he can hit the 15 foot jumper. Seattle worked the Spurs last round from that range. I expect the Suns will make a concerted effort to exploit that more in game 2.

[NoMoneyDown]

I found it quite interesting that the Suns only had SEVEN players suited for play in Game #1. Is that correct?

[SPARKY]

They had more suited up but only 7 saw the court. When Johnson returns that would be 8...

[spurs_fan_in_exile]

I don't think he's going to be a big impact player. For starters I really have to question how aggressive he's going to be coming off of a nasty injury like that. And finding his rhythm might take some time that the Suns just don't have right now. Plus he's going to have either Manu or Bowen chasing him around so that's going to take a chunk out of his scoring ability as well. Jim Jackson did exactly what Johnson has been doing for them in the playoffs yesterday and they still lost. Richardson and Marion need to wake the hell up. That will be the difference maker.

[SPARKY]

I don't think he's going to be a big impact player. For starters I really have to question how aggressive he's going to be coming off of a nasty injury like that. And finding his rhythm might take some time that the Suns just don't have right now. Plus he's going to have either Manu or Bowen chasing him around so that's going to take a chunk out of his scoring ability as well. Jim Jackson did exactly what Johnson has been doing for them in the playoffs yesterday and they still lost. Richardson and Marion need to wake the hell up. That will be the difference maker.

But Jim Jackson is their bench. Joe Johnson being unavailable is a net negative for them. No one made up for the loss of Jackson's bench production. Also, Johnson being out meant even heavier minutes than normal for the rest of their perimeter players.

[TMSKILZ]

Yes he will. But will it be a BIG enough difference, who knows, but he makes a difference for them.

[Supergirl]

Joe Johnson won't be the difference maker, unless the SPurs did something stupid and left him wide open. But I don't think they will.

Robinson is better than Joe Johnson, and we're gettin' him back, so I think it comes out even.

What's the deal with TMass and Brown? Is Brown not ready to play yet? Why is TMass not getting any minuted? When Nazr picked up foul #5, I thought TMass and Rasho would get more minutes, but Rasho only played 4 and TMass still got none.

[violentkitten]

joe johnson is a tad bit better at this point than robinson, injured eye or not.

suns need depth badly. they had no one off the bench to backup the swing spots yesterday. no one.

[boutons]

"Is Brown not ready to play yet? "

no, his leg is still weak.

"Why is TMass not getting any minuted?"

We are in the playoffs, 12th men a way out of the tightened rotation. Even Rasho isn't getting many minutes.

[Supergirl]

When did Joe Johnson play as a franchise player and leading scorer for a team? He may be better than Robinson defensively (verdict's still not out on this, since RObinson historically is weak on D but has played great D so far in the playoffs) but he's definitely not better offensively.

[violentkitten]

yes historically glenn robinson has been better but this is 2005 not 1999. i'd go with johnson on both ends of the court

[sa_butta]

I think Joe Johnson and Jim Jackson put up about the same numbers. I think he wont make much difference.

[TDMVPDPOY]

WTF did JJ became all that in bball??? his a nobody and teh spurs defense will prove that by limited him to anything under 19pts.

[Extra Stout]

But Jim Jackson is their bench. Joe Johnson being unavailable is a net negative for them. No one made up for the loss of Jackson's bench production. Also, Johnson being out meant even heavier minutes than normal for the rest of their perimeter players.Johnson would not have done any more at the 2 than Jackson did. The difference would have been that he would have played the minutes at the 1 that Barbosa got. Barbosa was terrible out there. That could be an eight-point swing.

The other use for Johnson would be guarding Tony Parker. He's not exactly a lockdown artist, but anything is better than Steve Nash (how many MVP's can you say that about?).

[2centsworth]

If JJ limits Jim Jackson's playing time, I'm all for it. Tim's ankle close to 100% by tuesday will have the biggest impact.

[Extra Stout]

Why is TMass not getting any minuted? When Nazr picked up foul #5, I thought TMass and Rasho would get more minutes, but Rasho only played 4 and TMass still got none.When Rasho played in the second half, that was the only time Phoenix was able to get their offense on track. That's when they went up by eight. Rasho could not keep up with the pace, and the Spurs' defensive rotation was a mess -- the Suns were 5 on 4, and got wide-open threes at will.

That's why Rasho only got 4 minutes.

TMass is a poor matchup against Phoenix. He's a bruiser, not a runner. Amare could just blow by him facing the basket, and then rest on defense. Mass only plays if everybody else is in foul trouble or injured, and maybe not even then.

[ChumpDumper]

I think Joe Johnson and Jim Jackson put up about the same numbers. I think he wont make much difference.It won't if he only takes Jackson's minutes. Johnson if versatile enough to play the minutes of currently ineffective players like Q and Barbosa, however, so he could indeed make a difference if he plays better in their stead.

[bonesinaz]

I don't think his return will make a difference at all. His injury was severe. He had surgery and his fracture is not yet healed. The swelling may be down one day and return the next. His vision may not be that impaired, but his confidence to drive in the lane will be.

[2centsworth]

It won't if he only takes Jackson's minutes. Johnson if versatile enough to play the minutes of currently ineffective players like Q and Barbosa, however, so he could indeed make a difference if he plays better in their stead.
Barbosa is the back-up point, neither JJs play point. They could bench Q, but you still have Q, Barbosa, and Hunter off the bench.

Again, the Sun's biggest problem is they can't slow the spurs one iotta. Just wait till Duncan is healthy.

[ChumpDumper]

neither JJs play point.Johnson has.
They could bench QYou'd think that with 7 points in 42 minutes, they would've played someone else if they could've.

[SpursFanInAustin]

I don't think Joe Johnson will be willing to take it to the rack coming off his injury and will be reduced to a jumpshooter.

[AZLouis]

JJ is the Suns back up poing guard and leading man in minutes played. Most of the people on this site are not giving JJ any credit.

Robinson is better than JJ. JJ will not make a difference. JJ can only hit wide open shots.

JJ is the Suns 3rd leading scorer for the season. One of the best 3 point shooters in the league percentage wise. He gives the Suns another offensive creator with the ball. He plays good defense. His importance to the team is great and should not be underrated.

His injury may slow him a little bit during the 1st game. But Rip and Lebron James didn't seem to slow down after breaking their noses and being forced to wear masks. One could argue that they played better.

JJ's injury is obviously worse than a broken nose. But do not discredit his value to the team. His return is much needed and will give the Suns an extra guy on the bench when he returns to the starting lineup.

[ChumpDumper]

Well said.

Johnson is their Manu.

Recognize.

[boutons]

As I said before, Jim has filled in very well for Joe. Suns didn't miss Joe in any significant sense. As was noted in this forum, Jim as a great pickup for the Suns.

And Joe won't be a game-changer when he's back @SBC, where he got only 9 pts in the 21-pt blowout 28 Dec. (and Quentin got only 2).

[Spurminator]

Just because Jackson equaled normal Joe Johnson production doesn't mean he won't make a difference. For one thing, you can't expect that type of game from Jackson every night... But the main reason is that Jackson becomes the option off the bench instead of Barbosa. And the less Barbosa has to play, the better for the Suns.

Johnson will also likely guard Parker, something Jackson couldn't do. Some of you are in for a rude awakening.

[Extra Stout]

Just because Jackson equaled normal Joe Johnson production doesn't mean he won't make a difference. For one thing, you can't expect that type of game from Jackson every night... But the main reason is that Jackson becomes the option off the bench instead of Barbosa. And the less Barbosa has to play, the better for the Suns.

Johnson will also likely guard Parker, something Jackson couldn't do. Some of you are in for a rude awakening.I think your point about Jackson not being able to do that every night is incompatible with your point about a "rude awakening."

If Jackson's performance in Game 1 was a suitable facsimile of what Johnson would provide on offense, and the Spurs won anyway, then they aren't going to be caught unprepared by Johnson's contribution. If Jackson were going to drop off, that would impact future games. It has nothing to do with what happened in Game 1. Do you see the logical fallacy?

Now the point that having Johnson in the lineup keeps Barbosa on the bench seems valid. Barbosa was awful. You remember the Suns gave the Spurs a first-round pick for him that turned into Nazr as part of the Malik trade, right? HAHAHAHA

[ChumpDumper]

Yesterday, having Johnson would've likely meant less Barbosa and Q, not Jackson.

[Spurminator]

It has nothing to do with what happened in Game 1. Do you see the logical fallacy?

In my opinion, the suggestion that Joe Johnson will not make a difference implies that the Suns are just as well off with Jackson starting every game... and my point was that Johnson would make a difference because Jackson probably wouldn't have that kind of game on Tuesday if Johnson was not available.

[2centsworth]

JJ is the Suns back up poing guard and leading man in minutes played. Most of the people on this site are not giving JJ any credit.

Robinson is better than JJ. JJ will not make a difference. JJ can only hit wide open shots.

JJ is the Suns 3rd leading scorer for the season. One of the best 3 point shooters in the league percentage wise. He gives the Suns another offensive creator with the ball. He plays good defense. His importance to the team is great and should not be underrated.

His injury may slow him a little bit during the 1st game. But Rip and Lebron James didn't seem to slow down after breaking their noses and being forced to wear masks. One could argue that they played better.

JJ's injury is obviously worse than a broken nose. But do not discredit his value to the team. His return is much needed and will give the Suns an extra guy on the bench when he returns to the starting lineup.

Joe's a good player, and hope he comes back 100%. No to say you're doing this, but I hate to hear teams make excuses. Same goes with the Spurs, if they lose and then the other team beat 'em or like I like to put it the spurs gave them the series.

[Spurminator]

On a similar note, has there ever been a debate about two people with more generic names than Jim Jackson and Joe Johnson?

:lol

[Extra Stout]

In my opinion, the suggestion that Joe Johnson will not make a difference implies that the Suns are just as well off with Jackson starting every game... and my point was that Johnson would make a difference because Jackson probably wouldn't have that kind of game on Tuesday if Johnson was not available.OK, that makes sense.

The notion that Joe Johnson makes no difference for the Suns is just wishful thinking on the part of homer fans. You know Spurs fans. After every win, they think the team will win the next thousand games and nobody has a chance, and everybody on the other team sucks, and after every loss they say the Spurs are going to get swept from here on out, and Duncan is the new C-Webb.

[AZLouis]

There is no question Jim Jackson has filled in nicely for JJ. But JJ is their starting shooting guard. Again read my post above for some of JJ accolades and importance to the team.

With JJ suited up and playing, that means Jim Jackson comes off of the bench. Meaning a better bench, more production, and more importanly more rest for the starters.

Arguing that the Suns are ok without JJ is really a position nobody should take. NO team is better or the same w/o their starting 2 guard. NO team is better w/o their 3rd leading scorer. NO team is better w/o their leader in minutes played. NO team is better w/o one of their best creators offensively. NO team is better w/o one of their best on ball defenders. NO team is better w/o one of the top 3 point shooters in the game.

NO team. Not the Suns. Not the Spurs. Not the Heat. Not the Pistons.

With JJ missing it's equivalent to the Spurs w/o Manu, the Heat w/o Eddie Jones, and the Pistons w/o Rip. While each team probably does and should have a player that can fill that role, none are better for it or will play the same.

[boutons]

But Suns did just fine against Mavs without Joe. And excellent adjustment by the Suns and Jim stepped up.

Joe just ain't gonna make that much difference vs Jim.

The Suns 3G game just doesn't work against the "playoff" Spurs. Sunday wasn't the first game the Suns, or anybody, has shot much fewer 3Gs than their avg.

If the Suns hopes are hinging on Joe being back for 2 games @SBC, the hopes are false, will be dashed.

[AZLouis]

Their season doesn't depend on JJ's return.

You are right they were able to secure victory w/o JJ against the Mavs. But likely the series would've gone 5 and not 6.

Again you are not considering the fact that Jim Jackson would come in off of the bench. The Suns need bench production and rest for their starters.

I don't want to sound repetitive but.....

Is rest and bench production important to the Suns?
Is a 8 man rotation better than a 7 man rotation?
Does a team need it's 3rd leading scorer?
Does a team needs it's leader in minutes played?
Does a team need a good on ball defender?
Does a team need one of the best 3 point shooters in the game?

An answer of yes to one or more the questions simply should put a stop the Suns not needing JJ.

It's not an excuse for a loss as suggested above. Every team should be prepared to play when a player is injured.

The argument is simply that the Suns will fair better with JJ than w/o.

And yes what a discussion to have about two commonly simple names. That's really funny.

[2centsworth]

With JJ missing it's equivalent to the Spurs w/o Manu, the Heat w/o Eddie Jones, and the Pistons w/o Rip. .

I'll give you heat w/o jones, but the other two are way out of JJ league. But you don't have to tell spurs fans, we know the spurs only beat you guys because you are short handed.

[GoSpurs21]

the suns shot 49%, unless JJ can improve that to 60% it wont matter who plays for the suns

as long as the Spurs continue to play defense the suns have no chance at winning the series

and with every Spurs victory, the pressure on those young suns will only continue to increase to their breaking point

[Spurminator]

the suns shot 49%, unless JJ can improve that to 60% it wont matter who plays for the suns

Or if JJ can do a better job on Tony Parker than Steve Nash. Safe bet he will.

[AZLouis]

JJ's importance to the Suns is the equivalent, like it or not.

JJ - 17 pts, 5 rbds, 3.6 assists, 1 steal, 47.8 3pt %, 39 minutes per game
Manu - 16 points, 4.5 rbds, 3.9 assists, 1.6 steals, 37.6 3 pt % 29 minutes per game
Rip - 18 pts, 3.9 rbds, 4.9 assists, 1 steal, 30.5 3 pt %, 38 mintues per game

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/playerrankings/regularseason/SG

CBS ranked the shooting guards.
5. JJ
7. Rip
11. Manu

Overall in the NBA
19. JJ
31. Rip
56. Manu

Apparently I'm not alone in this way of thinking.

[2centsworth]

JJ's importance to the Suns is the equivalent, like it or not.

JJ - 17 pts, 5 rbds, 3.6 assists, 1 steal, 47.8 3pt %, 39 minutes per game
Manu - 16 points, 4.5 rbds, 3.9 assists, 1.6 steals, 37.6 3 pt % 29 minutes per game
Rip - 18 pts, 3.9 rbds, 4.9 assists, 1 steal, 30.5 3 pt %, 38 mintues per game

http://www.sportsline.com/nba/playerrankings/regularseason/SG

CBS ranked the shooting guards.
5. JJ
7. Rip
11. Manu

Overall in the NBA
19. JJ
31. Rip
56. Manu

Apparently I'm not alone in this way of thinking.
wake up dude, there's not a GM in the world that would take JJ over Manu. But whatever makes this ass whopping more tolerable for you, spurs fans have heard it all before.

BTW, even by your own statistics Manu is far superior to JJ. Take those numbers per 48 mins. Also, Manu is the 2nd or 3rd leading scorer in the playoffs after two rounds.

[Extra Stout]

To summarize:

Over the course of the series, the Suns are better off WITH Johnson than without.

In Game 1, Jim Jackson stepped up nicely.

It is very common in the NBA, when a player is out, to have somebody else step up and fill that role in a particular game. What you can't count on is having that role filled night in and night out.

It is folly to think that Johnson would make no difference for Phoenix.

I think it also folly to think that Johnson would represent a significant upgrade over the performance Jackson gave in Game 1. Suns fans should not count on that. What they should count on is the inevitable dropoff in production at the 2 that would happen eventually if Johnson continues to sit. Given that the Spurs won Game 1 even with Jackson playing so well, the Suns would be hard-pressed to win the series in that case. They need Johnson back.

What Johnson provides that was missing is not so much shooting the ball from the perimeter, since Jackson did that just fine, as in backing up Steve Nash at the point MUCH better than Barbosa, and in having at least a prayer of keeping Tony Parker away from the rim.

Joe Johnson is not the X-factor that would swing the series back in Phoenix's favor, but as short as their bench is, they need him back to compete effectively.

[BronxCowboy]

Johnson will be big for the Suns if he is able to return to form, and has been a key for them ever since the Marbury trade. It's short-sighted to think that he won't make things more difficult for the Spurs. That said, he's not going to change the outcome of this series.

[2centsworth]

To summarize:

Over the course of the series, the Suns are better off WITH Johnson than without.

In Game 1, Jim Jackson stepped up nicely.

It is very common in the NBA, when a player is out, to have somebody else step up and fill that role in a particular game. What you can't count on is having that role filled night in and night out.

It is folly to think that Johnson would make no difference for Phoenix.

I think it also folly to think that Johnson would represent a significant upgrade over the performance Jackson gave in Game 1. Suns fans should not count on that. What they should count on is the inevitable dropoff in production at the 2 that would happen eventually if Johnson continues to sit. Given that the Spurs won Game 1 even with Jackson playing so well, the Suns would be hard-pressed to win the series in that case. They need Johnson back.

What Johnson provides that was missing is not so much shooting the ball from the perimeter, since Jackson did that just fine, as in backing up Steve Nash at the point MUCH better than Barbosa, and in having at least a prayer of keeping Tony Parker away from the rim.

Joe Johnson is not the X-factor that would swing the series back in Phoenix's favor, but as short as their bench is, they need him back to compete effectively.
the argument is dumb. If this and if that. If Duncan's ankle was 100% healthy he would have had over 40 instead of missing several shots within 1 foot. Spurs will adapt to whatever is thrown at them and usually do what's neccessary to win no matter who is on the other team. Phoenix just wants an excuse, so I hope JJ comes back tomorrow, but they will probably say he wasn't 100%. Doesn't matter, because who the hell is Phoenix anyways?

[AZLouis]

Suns far aren't counting on JJ creating this big difference in the series.

The fact is he is needed.

JJ's performance may not have been as good as Jim Jackson's in game 1. Jim Jackson may not have performed as well as he did if JJ was in the lineup.

Here is another what if, Q was off, maybe he could have played less and Jim Jackson was in the lineup with JJ on the court. Oh no

It's not an excuse for the Suns loss. The Suns blew game 1. Plain and simple. They had the lead going into the 4th and just let it slide. The Spurs had an incredible 4th quarter.

The Spurs scored 43 points to the Suns 32 points. The Suns were up 4 at the beginning of the 4th and lost by 7.

The difference in the series is going to be the play of the rest of the team. Not the Big 3 for SA and certainly not Amare and Nash. They will all get theirs as shown in game 1. It's the play of the bench and the role players that will make the difference.

Marion and Q did not play well but the Spurs got great production from their bench.

Ergo, victory in game 1 for the Spurs.

BTW, Manu is averaging 21 points per game in the playoffs and JJ 19. Manu is shooting a scorching 50 % from 3 pt land while JJ is even hotter at 56%.

Their performances are even other than games played due to JJ's injury.

Either way you are not going to change your mind and neither will I.

[samikeyp]

It's the play of the bench and the role players that will make the difference.

that's it in a nutshell.

[SPARKY]

The point is that the Suns could get Joe Johnson back tomorrow night and also get better games out of Marion and Richardson. I suspect that after getting a full two days of rest the Suns will be feeling a little better on Tuesday night.

Sure, Jim Jackson stepped up for them, but then they had no bench production as a result. Plus they also had guys logging heavy minutes.

Don't count on the Spurs being able to jump a shorthanded and fatigued Suns team on Tuesday night. Also stop trying to equate Devin Brown to Joe Johnson in terms of value to their clubs.

[2centsworth]

Suns far aren't counting on JJ creating this big difference in the series.

The fact is he is needed.

JJ's performance may not have been as good as Jim Jackson's in game 1. Jim Jackson may not have performed as well as he did if JJ was in the lineup.

Here is another what if, Q was off, maybe he could have played less and Jim Jackson was in the lineup with JJ on the court. Oh no

It's not an excuse for the Suns loss. The Suns blew game 1. Plain and simple. They had the lead going into the 4th and just let it slide. The Spurs had an incredible 4th quarter.

The Spurs scored 43 points to the Suns 32 points. The Suns were up 4 at the beginning of the 4th and lost by 7.

The difference in the series is going to be the play of the rest of the team. Not the Big 3 for SA and certainly not Amare and Nash. They will all get theirs as shown in game 1. It's the play of the bench and the role players that will make the difference.

Marion and Q did not play well but the Spurs got great production from their bench.

Ergo, victory in game 1 for the Spurs.

BTW, Manu is averaging 21 points per game in the playoffs and JJ 19. Manu is shooting a scorching 50 % from 3 pt land while JJ is even hotter at 56%.

Their performances are even other than games played due to JJ's injury.

Either way you are not going to change your mind and neither will I.
If the suns could trade JJ for Manu they would do it in a new york minute, and so would you.

The big 3 will make the difference for the spurs, because the suns aren't good enough to make others beat them. If they are and then the spurs have plan B, but for now the big 3 should be enough.

[2centsworth]

Also stop trying to equate Devin Brown to Joe Johnson in terms of value to their clubs.

who in the hell is doing that? JJ is less valuable than Tim's sore ankle is all I'm saying.



Don't count on the Spurs being able to jump a shorthanded and fatigued Suns team on Tuesday night.

so that's why the spurs won. OMG, the suns are gonna roll the spurs tomorrow.

[AZLouis]

I wouldn't and I don't think the Suns will either.

JJ is vital to this team and it's style of play.

His importance will be seen this off season when the Suns give him 10-12 million per year for his services.

[2centsworth]

I wouldn't and I don't think the Suns will either.

JJ is vital to this team and it's style of play.

His importance will be seen this off season when the Suns give him 10-12 million per year for his services. now you're just dishonest. Suns would trade everyone except Nash and Amare for Manu. That's 6 to 7 million too much.

[AZLouis]

Your silly.

Can you please tell me your contact with the Suns. Your insider information seems to be unparalleled.

[spur219]

Joe Johnson will of course give the Suns another weapon. Eventhough his injury was severe and he is probably a little out of shape he is still a legitimate shooting threat. Joe Johnson is a fine shooting guard and he can shoot the ball. The Spurs need to prepare for the Suns as if he will play. The Spurs better be prepared to beat the Suns and take 2 at home.


LETS GO SPURS!!!

[2centsworth]

Your silly.

Can you please tell me your contact with the Suns. Your insider information seems to be unparalleled.
pot calling the kettle black. we have the same information I can't help it if you're delusional.

[AZLouis]

We have the same information yet I only can assume what the Suns would or wouldn't do. You flat out said the Suns would trade for Manu. That's silly.

I'm delusional because I believe JJ is important to the Suns? Or am I delusional because I believe JJ's value is equivalent to Manu?

Either way, I am silly. But I don't pretend to know information I can't possibly know.

[Tom_Foolery]

If he returns the next game, I think he will make a difference. They'd probably then move Jimmy Jackson to the SF spot, which if I were the Suns coach I would strongly consider doing given Quentin's struggles.

If he doesn't return the next game and the Suns lose, it will be too late.

[2centsworth]

We have the same information yet I only can assume what the Suns would or wouldn't do. You flat out said the Suns would trade for Manu. That's silly.

JJ has been on the block since he became a Sun, and don't act otherwise. People still question his big game performances. If you can't see that Phoenix would trade JJ for Manu in a new york minute, and then you are delusional or need to watch more basketball.[/quote]


I'm delusional because I believe JJ is important to the Suns? Or am I delusional because I believe JJ's value is equivalent to Manu?

Both.



Either way, I am silly. But I don't pretend to know information I can't possibly know.

It doesn't take a genius to know that over 90% of the GM's in the league would take Manu over JJ. I'm sure there's someone crazy like you so I didn't make it 100%.

[SPARKY]

Joe Johnson is good but he isn't that good.

[samikeyp]

Joe Johnson is important to Phx but I think Manu's importance to the Spurs is greater than Johnson's is to the Suns. Not taking anything away from him though, he is a good player.

[2centsworth]

Joe Johnson is important to Phx but I think Manu's importance to the Spurs is greater than Johnson's is to the Suns. Not taking anything away from him though, he is a good player.
How many team would take Manu over JJ? Am I right in saying close to 100%.

[AZLouis]

2centsworth

Now 90% of the league GM would take Manu over JJ? How do you possibly know that?

You are right JJ was on the block at the beginning of the season. However, a few months in and he is no longer on the block. He's proved his value to the Suns team.

Fact is, Colangelo has gone on record that JJ will NOT be traded and that he WILL do everything possible to keep him in purple and orange. Not to mention Sarvar has assured the fans JJ will stay.

JJ will be highly sought after during this offseason. There's already rumors of the Bobcats, Cavs, and Sonics wanting to speak with JJ in the offseason. Visit insidehoops.com to see what sports pages across America print. That site gives good information.

Again I state that JJ's value is extremely important to the team. His important is equivalent to the #3 guys on the Spurs, Heat, and Pistons. Meaning Manu, Eddie Jones, and Rip.

If you haven't seen the Suns play this season other than games against the Spurs, your opinion would be a little short sighted.

I don't lie alone with my opinion as previouly posted cbssportline.com ranks JJ higher than Manu as a shooting guard and player overall.

His imminent return will not change the series but it will help the Suns. The Suns will then have an extra worthwhile player on the bench (Jim Jackson) and sure hand at back up Nash at the point.

Simple. Nothing more and nothing less.

[samikeyp]

Good question, 2cents. Do not know I, the answer to this. (ok...bad Yoda imitation) :lol

Personally...if I were a GM and had a choice...I would choose Ginobili. Does that mean I think Johnson sucks? no, but I would choose Ginobili. Then again...I would lock his ass to his front porch all summer so he would rest and not play internationally! :lol

[SirChaz]

I don't think JJ has been on the block.

If you believe the reports the reason we didn't get T-Mac is because they wouldn't give up JJ.

Johnson and Stoudemire are the future of the Phoenix Suns.

[samikeyp]

Again I state that JJ's value is extremely important to the team. His important is equivalent to the #3 guys on the Spurs, Heat, and Pistons. Meaning Manu, Eddie Jones, and Rip.

This is where my point is made, Ginobili is the #2 guy right now on the Spurs. Behind Duncan and ahead of Parker.

[SPARKY]

A contract averaging $10 to 12 mil is a bit much for Johnson, especially considering that he's a restricted free agent.

[mookie2001]

jim jackson was tearing it up sunday
joe johnson wont make that much difference
joe smith. thats another story



i dont like to talk about made-up players

[AZLouis]

He'll get some offers. The Cavs will have some money to spend and if Ray Allen doesn't return to the Sonics so will they.

He will get that money close to 10-12 million. Q and Nash were restricted free agents and received big time money. Their teams were not willing to match that offer or up the ante. When it comes to JJ the Suns will.

[SPARKY]

Nash wasn't a RFA. The Mavs had Bird Rights for him.

Richardson got 6 years for $43.5 mil. Not exactly close to a $10 mil per annum average.

[Horry For 3!]

Joe J won't be too effective because he will be wearing a mask which he has never worn before and he won't be used to it. He could put up some numbers but I think he would be afraid to get hit again even with the mask on.

[2centsworth]

This is where my point is made, Ginobili is the #2 guy right now on the Spurs. Behind Duncan and ahead of Parker. Manu is arguably the #1 guy in the playoffs so far, but tim is catching up quick.

Suns fan wants to make the argument that JJ=Manu so People would say Spurs wouldn't win with Manu so why expect the Suns to win without JJ. It's typical of what fans on the losing side do. Problem is JJ is certainly not equal to Tim or Manu and probably not equal to Tony either. He's more like Bruce or Nazr in importance, it would be a bitch to lose either one of those guys but not a difference maker.


Also, if how much you're paying someone meant anything than Daimon Stoudamire would be the best PG in the league. JJ gets 6-8 mil at best.

[SPARKY]

The loss of Johnson is significant to them since without him Jackson moves into the starting lineup and they have no bench.

[samikeyp]

Manu is arguably the #1 guy in the playoffs so far, but tim is catching up quick.

good point...and I think we would agree that he is not the #3 guy. :)

[2centsworth]

good point...and I think we would agree that he is not the #3 guy. :)
JJ isn't even the number 3 guy, mairon is. Don't know what that guy has been smoking.

[AZLouis]

2centsworth

Again with your assumptions and insider knowledge.

Suns fans aren't making an argument. I am. 1 Suns fan.
Nobody has said not to expect the Suns to win w/o JJ. Go back and read my posts.
Fact is the Suns have won w/o him. Point blank.

My assertion is that the Suns need him. There is no denying his importance to the Suns success. As a matter of fact this is the 1st time that as a Sun he has missed games.

It's a good thing you've attributed JJ some value (likening him to Bowen or Nazr).

Horry for 3, the mask probably won't be too much of a problem. Sure you have to get accustomed to it, but Rip, King James, and that guy from the Nets a few years back in the playoffs had no problems with it. Actually Rip and the dude from the Nets went back to wearing the masks even when it wasn't required.

[Kori Ellis]

It doesn't matter if he's #2, #3 or #4, of course his presence would make a difference. He's their best perimeter shooter, so the Spurs couldn't sag off him. It would just be another guy to guard. Plus it would obviously make them deeper.

Take a look at his postseason numbers.

19ppg on 52% from the field and 57% from 3.

[T Park]

the dude from the Nets

lucious Harris.

and, no, he didn't

Rip Hamilton is the only one I KNOW of that went back to it.

[timvp]

Joe Johnson makes a huge difference.

1) If the Suns put him and Jim Jackson on the floor at the same time and take out Q, that will force the Spurs to guard Marion with Tim Duncan. Either that or go small.

2) Barbosa pretty much sucks. Johnson will take away almost all of his minutes.

3) Johnson can guard Parker. He shut Parker down in that one game at PHX. He's exactly the type of defender that give Parker problems. The Suns can then hide Nash on Bowen.

4) Johnson will give the Suns another ballhandler and passer that will help players like Marion and Q get more involved.

5) Johnson is probably the team's deadliest three-point shooter. The Suns need threes to beat the Spurs.

Joe Johnson is a player close to the same level as Manu Ginobili. Spurs fans who think he won't make a difference need to rethink their stance.

[2centsworth]

It doesn't matter if he's #2, #3 or #4, of course his presence would make a difference. He's their best perimeter shooter, so the Spurs couldn't sag off him. It would just be another guy to guard. Plus it would obviously make them deeper.

Take a look at his postseason numbers.

19ppg on 52% from the field and 57% from 3.
The guy is comparing him to Manu. He say's JJ=Manu. Can you see the built in excuse?

[T Park]

He's their best perimeter shooter

agreed. BUT, BUT, you wonder about his effectiveness after getting a mask, and, his agressiveness in going to the hole.

[samikeyp]

I still think Manu means more to the Spurs than Johnson does to the Suns. then again...what do I know? I thought Alfredrick Hughes could play in this league. :lol

[2centsworth]

Joe Johnson is a player close to the same level as Manu Ginobili. Spurs fans who think he won't make a difference need to rethink their stance.

JJ has yet to make a difference against the spurs in 3 years. However, I concede he will improve their team, but if you think he's close to Manu and then you're crazy. Imagine having JJ on our team instead of Manu, scarey thought?

[timvp]

JJ has yet to make a difference against the spurs in 3 years. However, I concede he will improve their team, but if you think he's close to Manu and then you're crazy. Imagine having JJ on our team instead of Manu, scarey thought?

Not really. Did you watch Joe Johnson play this year?

[T Park]

he will improve the SUns no question, BUT,

couldnt you just do some pick and rolls to get him off of Parker, and free him up that way???!!?!?

[Kori Ellis]

Imagine having JJ on our team instead of Manu, scarey thought?

We aren't talking about that.

He's a great player for THEIR system, not for the Spurs.

He sucked against the Spurs this season, but you can't devalue a guy who was shooting that well in the postseason. Plus he makes the Suns a lot more versatile.

[T Park]

Imagine having JJ on our team instead of Manu

wouldnt TOTALLY bother me.

Joe Johnson is a hell of a player. The one player Ice guessed would be good.

[2centsworth]

Not really. Did you watch Joe Johnson play this year?
Of course, he's a jump shooter in the run in gun system. Bo Kimball would average 40 pts in that system, but he still sucks. JJ is a good player, but don't pretend he hasn't been on the trading block since he came into the league.

But again, what do I know maybe we can sign-n-trade for him with Manu. That sounds crazy doesn't it?

[Spurminator]

couldnt you just do some pick and rolls to get him off of Parker, and free him up that way???!!?!?

I'm hoping that will be a big part of our gameplan, with Nash's man (Bowen/Barry/whoever) screening for Parker at the top of the key and forcing Nash to switch.

[2centsworth]

We aren't talking about that.

He's a great player for THEIR system, not for the Spurs.

He sucked against the Spurs this season, but you can't devalue a guy who was shooting that well in the postseason. Plus he makes the Suns a lot more versatile.
all great points. I like JJ, but am not gonna let Suns fan try to make the comarison between him and Manu, because the Spurs without Manu would probably lose this series.

[2centsworth]

wouldnt TOTALLY bother me.

Joe Johnson is a hell of a player. The one player Ice guessed would be good.
If getting knocked out in the first round doesn't bother you then go for it.

[AZLouis]

Comparison still stands.

They are both great players who have developed nicely in this league and will only continue to get better.

Great discussion. None of us will change our minds.

2centsworth, what is your opinion of JJ's game? Not as a comparison to his importance to a team but as whole? And would you want him on your team? 2 parter

[T Park]

Now, I do think Ginobili > JJ

Joe Johnson is not an all star, and clearly, Manu Ginobili is, and will be for the next 5 years, if he can live.

[2centsworth]

Comparison still stands.

They are both great players who have developed nicely in this league and will only continue to get better.

Great discussion. None of us will change our minds.

2centsworth, what is your opinion of JJ's game? Not as a comparison to his importance to a team but as whole? And would you want him on your team? 2 parter
Nice player, maybe he can be as good as Michael Finley was in his prime. JJ still has a lot to prove. He's not in Manu's league though and you hurt your credibility trying to make that argument. JJ has enough game to stand on his own, and doesn't need to be exaggerated.

[AZLouis]

My credibility?

You guys don't know me, I could care less about my credibility.

Nothing I said was exaggerated about JJ. Everything my opinion is based on is statistical fact. Whether it be the rankings from cbssportsline or nba.com.

You just can't underestimate a starting shooting guard's importance. No matter which team. Doesn't matter who the player or what team he plays for.

If a team has a nice backup who fills in nicely that's great. But he is the backup for a reason.

Just like any and every team in the NBA. Take out a starter and the team is at a loss. No matter what the importance the guy is to the squad.

[tlongII]

This is why I said that the Spurs and their fans should hope that Phoenix closes out Dallas in 6 games. This gave SA their best opportunity to win a game in Phoenix.

[nkdlunch]

My credibility?

You guys don't know me, I could care less about my credibility.

Nothing I said was exaggerated about JJ. Everything my opinion is based on is statistical fact. Whether it be the rankings from cbssportsline or nba.com.

You just can't underestimate a starting shooting guard's importance. No matter which team. Doesn't matter who the player or what team he plays for.

If a team has a nice backup who fills in nicely that's great. But he is the backup for a reason.

Just like any and every team in the NBA. Take out a starter and the team is at a loss. No matter what the importance the guy is to the squad.

A team has stars and role-players. Suns have Nash, Amare and ...ok, Marion as Stars, Spurs have Duncan, Manu and Parker, if one of those guys is down, then yes it makes a huge difference. But if one of your role-players is down, the whole point of having a team is that someone else will step-up. My point is that JJ is a role-player and someone else in the Suns needs to step up, they should not depend on that guy coming back and even if he does, playing anywhere close to 100%.

[nkdlunch]

This is why I said that the Spurs and their fans should hope that Phoenix closes out Dallas in 6 games. This gave SA their best opportunity to win a game in Phoenix.

Please stop making lame excuses. Everyone at this point is fatigued/hurt, it's who wants to win the most who will prevail.

[2centsworth]

Please stop making lame excuses. Everyone at this point is fatigued, it's who wants to win the most who will prevail.
What do you except from a loser?

[AZLouis]

Why are you calling that guy a loser? Because he is a Blazer's fan? Or do you know who he is?

[2centsworth]

Why are you calling that guy a loser? Because he is a Blazer's fan? Or do you know who he is?
If you stick around after the spurs beat the suns and talk shit about how bad the spurs are, I'll call you a loser too. For now, welcome aboard.

[tlongII]

Why are you calling that guy a loser? Because he is a Blazer's fan? Or do you know who he is?


They are homers, that's why. I don't see the Spurs winning another game in Phoenix...luckily for them they don't have to.

[2centsworth]

They are homers, that's why. I don't see the Spurs winning another game in Phoenix...luckily for them they don't have to.
perfect example. those who receive sometype of perverted pleasure from other people's failures is nothing but a loser. Winners just care about themselves and don't hope for others to lose.

[tlongII]

perfect example. those who receive sometype of perverted pleasure from other people's failures is nothing but a loser. Winners just care about themselves and don't hope for others to lose.


Unfortunately I have no idea what this means. Bummer.

[2centsworth]

Unfortunately I have no idea what this means. Bummer.
doesn't surprise me.

[Rummpd]

Dear Blazer Fan - lets get this straight.

Suns have not beat Spurs this year with a Duncan on floor, now 0 and 3. Spurs toyed with Suns defense in a game (one) that the Spurs always have a problem with in a series.

Why are you confident about this Suns team? = they are the Kings lite (not as much depth) or maybe the ghost of Portland wannabees of years past.

Spurs will win again Tues - mark it down.

[td4mvp21]

tlong, weren't you SO SURE that the Spurs would lose to the Nuggets and Sonics?

[AZLouis]

If you stick around after the spurs beat the suns and talk shit about how bad the spurs are, I'll call you a loser too. For now, welcome aboard.

That's funny. You are calling someone a loser because the team they root for loses.

But thank you for the welcoming to your world.

[AZLouis]

perfect example. those who receive sometype of perverted pleasure from other people's failures is nothing but a loser.

Isnt' that what you were doing by call tlong a loser and promising to call me one.

[Extra Stout]

AZLouis, you don't need to be forum etiquette police.

[Spurminator]

Especially over Tlong.

[tlongII]

tlong, weren't you SO SURE that the Spurs would lose to the Nuggets and Sonics?


Actually I predicted that the Spurs would beat both the Nuggets and the Sonics. I just like to flick you guys a little crap to see the responses.

[samikeyp]

I just like to flick you guys a little crap to see the responses.

and you all should know that by now! :lol

[2centsworth]

That's funny. You are calling someone a loser because the team they root for loses.

But thank you for the welcoming to your world.
You can't read. Now I understand why you think JJ=Manu, you're dumb.

[T Park]

2 cents, lay the fuck off and chill out.


AZ, I disagree with you thinking JJ=Manu, but I welcome you wholeheartedly.

Youve brought nothing but objective good takes so far.

[T Park]

BTW, just announced that Joe Johnson is OUT for game 2.

Once again, Spurs have to take advantage.

Once again, reminds you of Derek Anderson in 00-01.....

[bonesinaz]

I knew it. He is worse than most people thought here. He was interviewed on Sunday and said he didn't have any pain.....that was either a lie or he had some good drugs.

[GrandeDavid]

You guys are running lots of smack. I'm not predicting anything, but will look forward to Game 2. Phoenix will be ready, that's for sure.

[AZLouis]

T Park thanks man.

The guy just loves his team. Can't blame him.

You are right the Spurs have a great chance to take another game. If down 2, the Suns will have their backs to the wall and that would be a hard deficit to overcome.

If they can get the victory though, things will get interesting. That's what I am looking forward to.

If you guys had a chance to watch the series against the Mavs that was a great series to watch.

[foodie2]

If you guys had a chance to watch the series against the Mavs that was a great series to watch.

I think that most of us here felt that that series was more painful to watch than anything else. After watching good defense all year, many of us found the matador defense on both ends was kind of boring, despite the scoring.

[exstatic]

He will be effective, but i don't think it will be as much on offense as on defense. he is one of the players that the suns have that can play decent defense.

Except, apparently against Manu and his 48 points. Joe J took it in the behind.

[violentkitten]

"in the behind"?

this is a family forum, man.

[T Park]

i have to agree with Foodie, I like watching the Spurs shut teams down, and playing great D, and it was tough to see open lanes to the basket, no contested shots and the like.

[AZLouis]

Not many people like to watch the Spurs style of play. As shown in the Finals of a few years ago when the Nets and Spurs played.

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't that the lowest rated Finals series ever!

Of course you guys will prefer to see a defensive stalwart and chess match, that is what your team is great at.

We've gotten use to watching a team put up 100 plus points on a regular basis. It's fun to see teams just being able to cut loose and play.

Most analysts agree that the Suns and Mavericks series was two teams playing the game how it was designed to be. Fans love it and so do the players.

[ducks]

just think what the media will think if spurs vs pistons in finals :elephant :elephant :elephant :elephant

[SPARKY]

I'll take championship basketball over pretty ball anytime, Suns fan.

Of course, the rich part is that the Spurs bested the Suns at their own game yesterday...

:)

[AZLouis]

You are right they did. No one can deny that. Nobody has.

[T Park]

Most analysts agree that the Suns and Mavericks series was two teams playing the game how it was designed to be. Fans love it and so do the players

fuck the analysts.


and fuck what people THINK how the game should be played.

The game was meant to be played with defending your basket.

That simple.

[AZLouis]

The game was invented with intention of throwing a ball through a peach basket.

Not to stop a guy from throwing a ball threw peach basket.

I understand your take, but the fact is the NBA has been taking steps to create more offense. 24 second shot clock, hand check rule, 3 point shot, no jump ball after every score, etc. The list goes on.

[MI21]

Tpark, Lucious Harris did stick with the mask for the rest of the playoffs in 2001-2002 after he didn't need it. Then he got pissed off during the Lakers eries and threw it off, so yea, he did wear it when he didn't have to.

As for JJ, of course he would make a difference. He's an excellent jumpshooter from 3 and a good midrange shooter and is also very good at making little 10ft runners and floaters in the lane. He's good defensively, and can play some backup PG. He would essentially make the Sun's swingman/PG rotation Johnson/Jackson/Richardson/Nash which would take away all of Barbosa's playing time which is good for Phoenix.

I don't agree with those who say he would effectively bother TP for long stretches. When coaches put bigger players on TP to effect his game they are usually really long or really quick as well as being tall. Johnson has the height, but he isn't freakishly long and he isn't fast. His offensive moves dont rely on speed, more on evasive moves etc. He may bother TP for a little while as he adjusts to a taller opponent, but I can't see it being an ongoing problem for the Spurs.

[MiNuS]

JJ in mask=Winnie the Pooh

[Pandaemonaeon]

Attention Early Entry Candidates! If you're more than 6'6", can dribble the ball and pass -- you are welcome to enter the "Next Magic Johnson" coalition!

http://img280.echo.cx/img280/9500/pandafish2jp.gif

[boutons]

"Not many people like to watch the Spurs style of play"

In your Suns homer-biased opinion.

As can be seen in the solid victories over Suns 3 times this season, the Spurs can score in the 120's with anybody in the league AND WIN, can hit 10+ 3Gs just like 3G-dependent teams like the Suns. And the Spurs can score in 80s AND WIN.

All the guards and SFs, even Tim, love to run the break, and do at every chance they get, with no resistance from Pop.

So STFU with your "Spurs are boring" BS.

What we don't have is the hip-hop ballas, balls styles, infantile hand-jive, thugs, the silly strutting and preening and pushups after a single play. You should notice that of the 4 Conference Finalists, only the Suns have the BS ballas behavior, while the other 3 teams are serious, professional teams.

There is no doubt that the Suns will not get past the WCF. Maybe in a couple years when they grow up (and find a true Big like all serious contenders and Titlists have had)

Tough luck for Joe Johson. I like him as player. I always prefer to beat the other team with no "*" attached. But if JJ had not hung theatrically, irresponsibly on the rim in balla style for the balla demographic entertainment, he would now be helping his team in WCFs.

[BigDaddyMatty]

How effective can he be expected to be coming off that kind of injury. He'll be to worried about re-injury to be able to guard manu and tony's drives down the lane. He'll be avoiding the contact like I avoid salad bars.

[BigDaddyMatty]

The game was invented with intention of throwing a ball through a peach basket.

Not to stop a guy from throwing a ball threw peach basket.

I understand your take, but the fact is the NBA has been taking steps to create more offense. 24 second shot clock, hand check rule, 3 point shot, no jump ball after every score, etc. The list goes on.
NO, the game was invented with the intention of one team trying to put ball through peach basket more times than the other team. Keeping the other team from scoring is half the game.

[foodie2]

NO, the game was invented with the intention of one team trying to put ball through peach basket more times than the other team. Keeping the other team from scoring is half the game.

Speaking of defense, did you see Dwayne Wade actually get some defense played on him last night by Detroit? I'm not a Wade-hater, but it was good to see him thrown off his game somewhat by the Pistons' strong D. He was certainly rattled by it.

[boutons]

"Dwayne Wade actually get some defense played on him"

and was it Magic or Charles who was calling DWade out for not returning the defensive favor?

[foodie2]

Charles, of course. He said that he won't be another Michael Jordan until he mans up on the defensive end.

[AZLouis]

"Not many people like to watch the Spurs style of play"

In your Suns homer-biased opinion.


Boutons, answer me this, which team was involved in the NBA Finals that was rated the LOWEST ever for a television audience?

If you answered the Nets and the SPURS, you would know that it is not my opinion. It's fact. Nothing wrong with that, I'm simpling stating people like to watch a more uptempo style of basketball.

Matty, you made the point. The intention of the game is outscore the other team. You don't get wins for having more rebounds, blocks, steals, forced tos, or any defensive stats. You get wins for outscoring the other team. Such as the Spurs did to the Suns on Sunday. If you consider what happened on Sunday defense at its best.

Speaking of Magic Johnson, have you guys been watching a lot of the conversation on TNT? One day he kept saying the word "penetration", I shivered every time.

[Spurminator]

Boutons, answer me this, which team was involved in the NBA Finals that was rated the LOWEST ever for a television audience?

If you answered the Nets and the SPURS, you would know that it is not my opinion. It's fact. Nothing wrong with that, I'm simpling stating people like to watch a more uptempo style of basketball.

Here's my contribution to the debate over the Spurs' appeal to casual NBA fans...

WGAF?

[violentkitten]

i'll take two titles with low television ratings to none anytime motherfucker

[boutons]

"Boutons, answer me this, which team was involved in the NBA Finals that was rated the LOWEST ever for a television audience?"

If you know the answer, why ask me? WGAF? People watch brain-dead crap like "reality" TV shows and Pro Wrestling, which proves what?

The 03 Spurs won an NBA Title with the tools at hand, which is something the Suns AREN'T going do these playoffs.

The 05 Spurs are a very different team, and win scoring high with no-defense jokes like the Suns and win low against complete teams like the Pistons, Heat, Pacers.

The 05 Spurs win playing thugs like Seattle, or win playing pussies like the Suns.

The 05 Spurs can win so many ways, Mike doesn't have a clue how to win except try to play the same game they've played all season. So far, 0-3 vs healthy Spurs.

[AZLouis]

You guys are all right. Everybody would rather play and win. Fans love it. See look how proud you guys are.

The Suns might not win this year and it's not because they don't have the tools or a good coach. It'd be because either the Spurs or one of the Eastern teams are betters. Plain and simple.

The Spurs can play a different style of games. That's why they are so good and always competing.

The Suns don't need to change their game plan. If the Spurs and other teams are willing to modify their plans to play the Suns game, that's what they'd prefer, win or lose. The Suns have a better chance at winning when they run and score rather trying to grind it out. That's just the type of team they are.

And yes they are 0-3 vs a healthy Spurs group. The Spurs are a great team. Nobody can deny that.

Just don't be sure to overlook the Suns yet. Only 1 game has played. There is a reason they had the best record in the NBA. It's not because they are a bunch of "pussies".