Quick Grades: Spurs vs. Rockets - Nov. 6

[timvp]

San Antonio Spurs vs. Houston Rockets - Quick Player Grades (http://www.sanantoniodispatch.com/san-antonio-spurs/spurs-grades/quick-grades-spurs-vs-rockets/)

http://www.sanantoniodispatch.com/quick-grades-nov5.jpg (http://www.sanantoniodispatch.com/san-antonio-spurs/spurs-grades/quick-grades-spurs-vs-rockets/)

[ducks]

so blair best game is against scola

I think he wanted spur fans to forget about scola

[20beastie45]

Dice!!!!!!

[jestersmash]

You forgot Courtney Lee A+++ free throw choker extraordinaire

[BillMc]

I'd agree with most of these.

[GabeIsGone]

You forgot Courtney Lee A+++ free throw choker extraordinaire

Not just that, he had several bad plays in the 4th qrt and OT. Dude was our MVP.

[ducks]

Manu Ginobili B- Defense shaky. Questionable decisions

b is to high for him tonight
his grade should be c-

[Nathan89]

Looks like the teach is starting to grade Richard a little tougher.

[ShoogarBear]

Considering the quality of the defense and the opposition, I'd have a hard time giving anyone higher than a B-minus.

[Spurs Brazil]

Blair was better today but his help D is very bad.

Manu was huge but I'd like to see him attack more and shot less triples

RJ was solid again but his D on Battier was bad

Tiago was bad today, I hope he can get in shape soon

TD with a good 2nd half but on D he was slow on rotations

TP with a nice game, but like Manu I'd like to see him attack more

Dice with another good game

[itzsoweezee]

DeJuan's defense and intensity in the 4th: A+

[Nathan89]

When Bonner and Anderson comeback we will have a 11 man rotation. Just wow.

[Frenchise player]

This should have been a blowout, the rockets played without Yao and both Brooks and KMart were out of the game for most of the second half.
But it doesn't matter in the end because the W is all that counts. Spurs need to focus on the defensive side of the ball, it's pretty clear that they have more offensive firepower than in previous seasons but it doesn't matter if they can't stop other teams.

[DAF86]

I don't agree at all with the grades, RJ deserved an A- at least and McDyess can't play much better than that IMO, I would have given him an A+, Manu B- beign the top scorer and getting the game tying jumper and coming with the steal to decide the game?

[FilSpursFan]

you guys forgot there is no Yao Ming on the lineup...

[Solid D]

Manu Ginobili B- Defense shaky. Questionable decisions

b is to high for him tonight
his grade should be c-

:lol

[Sean Cagney]

so blair best game is against scola

I think he wanted spur fans to forget about scolaGO figure you would come in to hate on Manu!!!!!!!! Whats new?

[pawe]

you guys forgot there is no Yao Ming on the lineup...

Not the Spurs' problem that their best player cant get healthy.

[Man In Black]

you guys forgot there is no Yao Ming on the lineup...

Add the losses of Brooks and Martin and the Spurs grades appropriately drop.

I think Pop's pacing of the game late was too much half-court slowdown. That gave the Rockets a pace they could handle despite being overly shorthanded. They should've sped up the pace to force the Rockets to run more. Not saying run fast break everytime but lots of 2nd break opps were missed.

[jestersmash]

Anybody else feel that Kevin Martin is turning into the Ginobili of 2005 in terms of flopping propensity/ability?

Let's be real, back during his prime Gino used to flop...quite a bit - often to our benefit (hell I don't mind, I wish he'd start up again if it helps us win). I'm seeing flashbacks of that with kevin martin now. Martin's really becoming quite adept with the art of flopping/getting to the line.

[Libri]

Even though Jefferson needed to get more rebounds and play better defense, he is taking pressure off from the big three by shouldering the scoring load. He is doing this by not being the first, second or even the third option on offense.

[ducks]

GO figure you would come in to hate on Manu!!!!!!!! Whats new?

look he took 11 threes

do you think he should do that?

[SpurSpurSpurs]

TD and Dyess are really slow on their rotation. Tiago is still somehow lost as well. Both Tony and Manu are not penetrating much too. Am I trying to be a pessimist about them? Well, atleast RJ is really good this year.

BTW, quick question, has Tony lost his killer tear drop shot? Whenever I watch a game, he doesn't make any attempts on those tdrops.

[GSH]

I can't argue too much with the grades, until I look at the big picture. We needed two missed free throws to get to OT, at home, against the winless Rockets. And they were without 3 of their best players. When I look at it in aggregate, it's hard to picture that everybody except Neal and Splitter had A's and B's.

I want to be disappointed in Splitter, and I have to keep reminding myself that this is like his pre-season, with a new team. We're going to need a lot more of him before this season is over. It's hard not to raise expectations too high. I need to start thinking in terms of him being a key figure in an unbeaten Rodeo Road Trip. Yeah - I like the sound of that.

Sometimes it seems like one play changes the momentum of a game. Maybe it's not fair or accurate, but it seems like it happens too often to be coincidence. The Spurs had built up an 9 point lead at the end of the third quarter. They got the ball back with about 36 seconds, and had enough time for a 2-for-1. Hill hung on to the ball, and then chunked up a poor 3 and the Rockets scored again with a couple of seconds left. It was a really stupid possession, and it seemed to give the Rockets some life. I'd dock Hill one letter grade for that play alone.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

This team reminds of the 2009 one in the sense that they were escaping with winning a lot of games they shouldn't be winning.

A lot of that was due to the Spurs having more buzzer beaters that season than any other one in recent memory, but the wins only seemed to mask the real problems the team had.

Still, it's very early, and I'm sure the defense will improve. Loving RJ's play lately.

[mingus]

Spurs playing defense when they need stops, but let go and allow teams to stay in games. Same thing happened against Suns.

[jestersmash]

On the plus side, winning a game by the skin of your teeth is possibly more valuable than winning a game by a blowout. Why? Because when you're down 2 points and you only have 20 seconds left in the game, there's probably a markedly elevated level of pressure on the spurs to make something happen, and in my opinion it's probably a good thing that the spurs are getting that sort of high pressure experience early and often.

[TMTTRIO]

I'm not liking that Manu is relying mainly on his jump shots and 3 point shooting all the time. He hasn't really been all that aggressive at getting to the basket and getting to the FT line (tonight he only had two because they had to foul him).

[pawe]

Good point. They need the pressure situations to make them tougher later in the season. Too bad Anderson missed this one.

[GSH]

BTW, quick question, has Tony lost his killer tear drop shot? Whenever I watch a game, he doesn't make any attempts on those tdrops.

I thought about starting a thread about that. Tony rarely shoots the teardrop. (I remember him shooting it once last game.) And Tim doesn't shoot that 15-footer off the glass much anymore. That was a signature shot, and we hardly see it anymore. I get the feeling that they have both lost some confidence in those shots. Tim also used to be money on that straight-away shot from at or just beyond the FT line.

Those shots don't stretch the defense the same way as a 3-point shooter, but they do force the defenders to come out from under the rim. I think Tony would get less of those layups blocked if he was shooting the teardrop enough to force the defenders to honor it. And Tim's shot off the glass froze defenders and gave him an easier time getting to the basket.

The Spurs aren't having any trouble scoring a lot of points. But I think they would be more efficient if those two shots made a comeback.

[jestersmash]

Tony's teardrop has almost certainly been stored away in procedural memory years ago. I'm not worried about it too much. You really don't "lose" that sort of thing.

The question is - are there instances when Tony has the ball where the teardrop would have been more efficient/effective than

A) Passing the ball to a teammate

or

B) Taking a non-teardrop shot himself

I'm honestly not sure at all, I don't remember all of his plays from these past 5 games.

The only thing I've noticed is that his assist rate has gone up significantly (7 APG average through these 5 games), but that doesn't quite answer the original question. It perhaps suggests that Tony is possibly looking more to facilitate than looking for his own shot, but you really can't derive anything from that increased APG statistic alone.

[Amuseddaysleeper]

Tony's teardrop has almost certainly been stored away in procedural memory years ago. I'm not worried about it too much. You really don't "lose" that sort of thing.

The question is - are there instances when Tony has the ball where the teardrop would have been more efficient/effective than

A) Passing the ball to a teammate

or

B) Taking a non-teardrop shot himself

I'm honestly not sure at all, I don't remember all of his plays from these past 5 games.

The only thing I've noticed is that his assist rate has gone up significantly (7 APG average through these 5 games), but that doesn't quite answer the original question. It perhaps suggests that Tony is possibly looking more to facilitate than looking for his own shot, but you really can't derive anything from that increased APG statistic alone.

Not to take anything away from Tony, but the increased number of possessions for the Spurs this year due to the faster pace will also boost his APG numbers automatically.

[JR3]

Splitter seems to get pushed around a lot! I don't like it... when it comes to getting offensive rebounds, he's not even close to where the ball is. Hope he can improve in this area, because if he is getting pushed around this early in the season and we haven't even played anyone with real size??? not good. I have a little faith though. (wish I could combine Blair and Splitter into one guy)

[jestersmash]

Not to take anything away from Tony, but the increased number of possessions for the Spurs this year due to the faster pace will also boost his APG numbers automatically.

There you go, I agree that's another possible (I'd say more plausible) hypothesis as to why Tony's APG has gone up.

That's why I left it at inconclusive - I really have no idea why TP hasn't been utilizing the floater more this season so far.

[ajh18]

Manu is shooting just 34.2% from the three point line this year. But since he's shooting 44.3% on two point shots, his return from three point shooting right now is actually higher than his return on two's. AND, that's with him shooting below his career average from three. So frankly, I have no problem with him shooting from the outside the way he is.

People want him going to the basket more, and if this were the playoffs, I'd agree. But that's the kind of play that gets him hurt, and wears his body down. Let him get into that mode closer to the playoffs, and shoot jumpers more right now.

As for Tony, this game put him up to 8.4 assists a game. Is part of it pace? Probably, but I also see him looking to pass more this year than in past years. Also, even if pace IS a key aspect of that, for years people have been comparing his assist averages unfavorably to those of guards who play in faster pace offenses. Sometimes I think Tony is damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

I like how the Spurs look. I like the style they are playing. They CAN be very good at defense, and CAN be very good running. They just aren't consistent yet. I want to see them actually get GOOD at this style now.

[GSH]

The question is - are there instances when Tony has the ball where the teardrop would have been more efficient/effective than

A) Passing the ball to a teammate




What I'm saying is that the value of that floater is more than just the current shot, if he shoots it a few times a game. The defenders have to respect that he might shoot the floater, and they will step out to defend him - especially if he gives them a little hesitation.

He gets crushed right under the rim fairly often, because those guys are camping on him. If he can get them to step out, it makes it easier for him to get to the rim. Or if he dumps it off late, it makes it easier for that player to get to the rim. The floater helps open up the paint a little bit, and sometimes that little bit can make a big difference.

When the defenders don't believe that Tony is going to pull up for the floater, or that Tim is going to go up with the jumper off the glass, they can defend differently. I wish we would see more of those shots.

[Darkwaters]

What happened to Anderson? Did I miss something?

[jjktkk]

What happened to Anderson? Did I miss something?

His girlfriend went into labor. Pop gave him the day off.

[SpurSpurSpurs]

I thought about starting a thread about that. Tony rarely shoots the teardrop. (I remember him shooting it once last game.) And Tim doesn't shoot that 15-footer off the glass much anymore. That was a signature shot, and we hardly see it anymore. I get the feeling that they have both lost some confidence in those shots. Tim also used to be money on that straight-away shot from at or just beyond the FT line.

Those shots don't stretch the defense the same way as a 3-point shooter, but they do force the defenders to come out from under the rim. I think Tony would get less of those layups blocked if he was shooting the teardrop enough to force the defenders to honor it. And Tim's shot off the glass froze defenders and gave him an easier time getting to the basket.

The Spurs aren't having any trouble scoring a lot of points. But I think they would be more efficient if those two shots made a comeback.

Tim did a bank shot earlier, but just once. How I miss the old Timmy. *Gets the ball in the low post, faces his defender, do some pump fakes then takes the bank shot. Boom! Instant 2 points!*

Less blocks and body assaults from everyone as well. I noticed how hard he falls on the ground when he drives towards the basket for a layup. That doesn't happen with this teardrop.

Can't agree more with your last statement. :toast



The question is - are there instances when Tony has the ball where the teardrop would have been more efficient/effective than

A) Passing the ball to a teammate

or

B) Taking a non-teardrop shot himself


Believe me, I am one of the most happiest Spurs fan when Tony decided to pass the ball nowadays. But still, fact remains the same that those floaters attract defenders. More defenders blocking or trying to prevent Tony to make that shot, the more space the shooters can have.


What I'm saying is that the value of that floater is more than just the current shot, if he shoots it a few times a game. The defenders have to respect that he might shoot the floater, and they will step out to defend him - especially if he gives them a little hesitation.

Don't forget to mention that it is also fun watching Tony break his defenders legs. :lol


There you go, I agree that's another possible (I'd say more plausible) hypothesis as to why Tony's APG has gone up.

That's why I left it at inconclusive - I really have no idea why TP hasn't been utilizing the floater more this season so far.

Was he using it last season? I mean, constantly? Sorry I was not able to watch their games because of work. :depressed

[mingus]

I'm not liking that Manu is relying mainly on his jump shots and 3 point shooting all the time. He hasn't really been all that aggressive at getting to the basket and getting to the FT line (tonight he only had two because they had to foul him).

Too early in the season for Manu to start driving. He's at the age where he risks getting injured if he does it like he used to. I'm sure later on and in the playoffs he'll start to go to it.

[DBMethos]

I'm usually OK with Manu taking 3's, but RJ is ON FIRE from 3...could it have hurt to have gotten him the ball for a few more of those?

[Stringer_Bell]

I'm usually OK with Manu taking 3's, but RJ is ON FIRE from 3...could it have hurt to have gotten him the ball for a few more of those?

I think the team is still getting used to RJ being the RJ we hoped he'd be. The passing will come with practice, hopefully RJ continues whatever crazy zen mindset he's playing with because he's in the zone.

I agree that Manu isn't driving as much because he's getting old and needs to protect his body. He will unleash when he needs to, as he has always done before, but I'm not too worried.

Dice was nice, made some sweet ass jumpers all in a row.

I think the team is playing more relaxed and loose, which has its pluses and minuses, but I like the mental toughness they show AFTER letting the other team back in the game. :bang

[EVAY]

You forgot Courtney Lee A+++ free throw choker extraordinaire

Well, in all fairness, Tim "choked" on the free throw that he got that would have ended the game in our favor in regulation.

[pjjrfan]

Manu Ginobili B- Defense shaky. Questionable decisions

b is to high for him tonight
his grade should be c-

Manu had one of those jeckle and hyde games. he's obviosly been the best player out there but he he's also had more than his share of moments where he totally kills the Spurs, last night he was a big part for the Spurs losing that big lead. But it was his 3 that brought them back. I guess a C+ would be more appropriate, he did do a lot to get the team going. although at time he seemed to want to give it all back. I also think we are going to have to get used to seeing Tim have more games like this one on a regular basis. The first half he just wasn't very effective. And Tiago looks like he sat around all year long. He got tired quicker than in his first stint, how does that happen to a professional athlete.

[Agloco]

Considering the quality of the defense and the opposition, I'd have a hard time giving anyone higher than a B-minus.

This, there's not really anything good to take away from this game. Only positive I see is a W. Last year, they probably lose this game. Hopefully they can continue to improve on defense because right now it's pretty ugly.

[Flux451]

Quite generous LJ!

Defense was horrid. Spurs lose this game if Aaron Brooks doesn't get hurt. Smith helped the Spurs out.

But thanks for all ur updates and reviews!

[silverblk mystix]

This, there's not really anything good to take away from this game. Only positive I see is a W. Last year, they probably lose this game. Hopefully they can continue to improve on defense because right now it's pretty ugly.

Gotta disagree here...

The biggest thing to take from this game, besides the W, is that the spurs found a way to respond to SUCCESS-after the big win in Phoenix!

Last season...this would have been a blah effort and Pop would have sat someone...and/or thrown in the white flag-because of the bigger picture of saving themselves for the playoffs.

This season will hopefully be different and these kinds of wins will only make the team tougher mentally.

Next, I hope to see that this worshipping of the lakers by pop and most fans-to be eliminated....spurs and their fans need to get a SWAGGER back...

and by starting to fight for every game and by using a full 10-11 man rotation of CONFIDENT players and taking every win that they can-pretty or not- will be the start of a new attitude and a dominating season!

[galvatron3000]

Manu is taking way too many 3's, 11 for one game is fine for a team not for a player who is capable of getting to the line for and 1's. Taking that many in a game is bailing out the other team and making their job a lot easier, especially when it isn't falling.

Spurs' front line is too small and may need to consider making some kind of move to either fix that problem or address another area of weakness, like backup small forward/ point guard. Personally, Bonner, McDyess and Blair is a concerned only because Blair is so undersized, defense is weak and his rebounding is up and down this early in the season. PLus Bonner is being used for more than situational usage which is a major problem because the Spurs still figure him to be more than Danny Ferry and on par with Robert Horry. Bonner is actually taking up a roster spot that should have gone to a young talent prospect with size.

Look at the Celtics, they have size and if one or two big get injured they still have a solid front line, SPurs are lottery bound if Tim and Splitter go down because we stuck with nothing but undersized Power forwards who are either too old, too young or too one dimensional.

The bright side is we have plenty of wing players to trade. ::sigh::

[dbreiden83080]

you guys forgot there is no Yao Ming on the lineup...

Sadly that is nothing new..

[dunkman]

San Antonio Spurs vs. Houston Rockets - Quick Player Grades (http://www.sanantoniodispatch.com/san-antonio-spurs/spurs-grades/quick-grades-spurs-vs-rockets/)

http://www.sanantoniodispatch.com/quick-grades-nov5.jpg (http://www.sanantoniodispatch.com/san-antonio-spurs/spurs-grades/quick-grades-spurs-vs-rockets/)

Duncan had a quite good game, he was better than Blair. Good to see Blair improving, though.

[ceperez]

I'm usually OK with Manu taking 3's, but RJ is ON FIRE from 3...could it have hurt to have gotten him the ball for a few more of those?

Agree. I prefer an uncontested 3 point attempt by RJ versus a forced 3 point attempt by Manu. The numbers just don't lie.

Manu without a doubt exerts a lot of effort to play competitively, however, this is the regular season folks!

Manu with 28 points in a regular season game against a 0-5 team isn't worth it!

[ajh18]

One more thing...

While the Rockets may be 0-5 now, and were missing several key players (or had several key players get injured), I think that actually makes them MORE dangerous last night, not less. We played a desperate team last night, with a lot of players who don't get a ton of time getting the opportunity to show what they can do. Don't underestimate how those kinds of things makes a "bad" team tough to beat.

[superbigtime]

I like the end of game gutsiness but letting this crippled Rockets team back into the game all too familiar. Blair just isn't a Center, shouldn't be a starter. Manu was sabateur and hero all in one. Tony, RJ, and Dice had the best games for the Spurs. Where was Erika tonight?

[itzsoweezee]

This team reminds of the 2009 one in the sense that they were escaping with winning a lot of games they shouldn't be winning.

A lot of that was due to the Spurs having more buzzer beaters that season than any other one in recent memory, but the wins only seemed to mask the real problems the team had.

Still, it's very early, and I'm sure the defense will improve. Loving RJ's play lately.


This teams seems more like the 2008 team to me. That team struggled to beat bad teams, but usually squeaked those games out. The 2009 team destroyed bad teams, but didn't fair too well against good teams.

I guess we'll see what happens, but i feel better about the Spurs' prospects this year than either of those teams simply because our offensive firepower is that much better (assuming Hill gets back to the level he was playing at last year).

[wildbill2u]

You can't grade Blair a B if he was "still not very good" by giving him extra credit for 'his best game of the season." Put another way, 'his best game of the season still wasn't very good" and how does that grade.

We shouldn't get all starry eyed over Blair's energy and assets and avoid the conclusion that he isn't going to ever be a good starting center agaiinst other good starting centers in this league. Too short.

He may not be a starting PF either. His height isn't too bad but he'll have to get faster foot work to defend away from the basket and a better outside shot.

He can be another Malik Rose but that's about it.

[Cessation]

Duncan B- 8-15 11 reb 3 ast 1 foul 3blk 19 points

Blair B 3-8 fg 8 reb 1 ast 5 fouls 1 blk 6 points

That grade is not even close, to what it should be.

Blair continues to make boneheaded plays, even if he brought a bit more engergy this time, hes also shooting 25 % from the field for the season.

Judging by some of pops reactions, he cant wait for tiago to get in game form.

[TMTTRIO]

I'd rather have Manu trying to create for others than launching up all those threes but I guess he can't if he doesn't really aggressively drive to the baset. I'd rather have someone who is hot shooting than him hoisting up every one he can get. I guess the good news about him is he still has a lot of lift to dunk when he wants to.