United States of Bananas

[MannyIsGod]

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/11/07/opinion/07kristof.html?_r=1

Our Banana Republic
By NICHOLAS D. KRISTOF
Published: November 6, 2010
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In my reporting, I regularly travel to banana republics notorious for their inequality. In some of these plutocracies, the richest 1 percent of the population gobbles up 20 percent of the national pie.

Damon Winter/The New York Times
Nicholas D. Kristof
On the Ground

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Times Topic: Income Inequality
But guess what? You no longer need to travel to distant and dangerous countries to observe such rapacious inequality. We now have it right here at home — and in the aftermath of Tuesday’s election, it may get worse.

The richest 1 percent of Americans now take home almost 24 percent of income, up from almost 9 percent in 1976. As Timothy Noah of Slate noted in an excellent series on inequality, the United States now arguably has a more unequal distribution of wealth than traditional banana republics like Nicaragua, Venezuela and Guyana.

C.E.O.’s of the largest American companies earned an average of 42 times as much as the average worker in 1980, but 531 times as much in 2001. Perhaps the most astounding statistic is this: From 1980 to 2005, more than four-fifths of the total increase in American incomes went to the richest 1 percent.

That’s the backdrop for one of the first big postelection fights in Washington — how far to extend the Bush tax cuts to the most affluent 2 percent of Americans. Both parties agree on extending tax cuts on the first $250,000 of incomes, even for billionaires. Republicans would also cut taxes above that.

The richest 0.1 percent of taxpayers would get a tax cut of $61,000 from President Obama. They would get $370,000 from Republicans, according to the nonpartisan Tax Policy Center. And that provides only a modest economic stimulus, because the rich are less likely to spend their tax savings.

At a time of 9.6 percent unemployment, wouldn’t it make more sense to finance a jobs program? For example, the money could be used to avoid laying off teachers and undermining American schools.

Likewise, an obvious priority in the worst economic downturn in 70 years should be to extend unemployment insurance benefits, some of which will be curtailed soon unless Congress renews them. Or there’s the Trade Adjustment Assistance program, which helps train and support workers who have lost their jobs because of foreign trade. It will no longer apply to service workers after Jan. 1, unless Congress intervenes.

So we face a choice. Is our economic priority the jobless, or is it zillionaires?

And if Republicans are worried about long-term budget deficits, a reasonable concern, why are they insistent on two steps that nonpartisan economists say would worsen the deficits by more than $800 billion over a decade — cutting taxes for the most opulent, and repealing health care reform? What other programs would they cut to make up the lost $800 billion in revenue?

In weighing these issues, let’s remember that backdrop of America’s rising inequality.

In the past, many of us acquiesced in discomfiting levels of inequality because we perceived a tradeoff between equity and economic growth. But there’s evidence that the levels of inequality we’ve now reached may actually suppress growth. A drop of inequality lubricates economic growth, but too much may gum it up.

Robert H. Frank of Cornell University, Adam Seth Levine of Vanderbilt University, and Oege Dijk of the European University Institute recently wrote a fascinating paper suggesting that inequality leads to more financial distress. They looked at census data for the 50 states and the 100 most populous counties in America, and found that places where inequality increased the most also endured the greatest surges in bankruptcies.

Here’s their explanation: When inequality rises, the richest rake in their winnings and buy even bigger mansions and fancier cars. Those a notch below then try to catch up, and end up depleting their savings or taking on more debt, making a financial crisis more likely.

Another consequence the scholars found: Rising inequality also led to more divorces, presumably a byproduct of the strains of financial distress. Maybe I’m overly sentimental or romantic, but that pierces me. It’s a reminder that inequality isn’t just an economic issue but also a question of human dignity and happiness.

Mounting evidence suggests that losing a job or a home can rock our identity and savage our self-esteem. Forced moves wrench families from their schools and support networks.

In short, inequality leaves people on the lower rungs feeling like hamsters on a wheel spinning ever faster, without hope or escape.

Economic polarization also shatters our sense of national union and common purpose, fostering political polarization as well.

So in this postelection landscape, let’s not aggravate income gaps that already would make a Latin American caudillo proud. To me, we’ve reached a banana republic point where our inequality has become both economically unhealthy and morally repugnant.

I invite you to comment on this column on my blog, On the Ground. Please also join me on Facebook, watch my YouTube videos and follow me on Twitter.

[Wild Cobra]

Only a limited mentality thinks the pie is a fixed size, and when someone does well, someone else doesn't.

[boutons_deux]

Lots of articles around on how the VRWC has buggered and still buggering America, and if is completely beyond the reach of the law (massive, pervasive, multi-year mortgage lender fraud and no one's in jail, nor even prosecuted). aka Too Big Too Wealthy To Jail

America's Two Economies, and Why One Is Recovering and the Other Isn't

Next time you hear an economist or denizen of Wall Street talk about how the "American economy" is doing these days, watch your wallet.

There are two American economies. One is on the mend. The other is still coming apart.

The one that's mending is America's Big Money economy. It's comprised of Wall Street traders, big investors, and top professionals and corporate executives.

The Big Money economy is doing well these days. That's partly thanks to Ben Bernanke, whose Fed is keeping interest rates near zero by printing money as fast as it dare. It's essentially free money to America's Big Money economy.

Free money can almost always be put to uses that create more of it. Big corporations are buying back their shares of stock, thereby boosting corporate earnings. They're merging and acquiring other companies.

And they're going abroad in search of customers.

Thanks to fast-growing China, India, and Brazil, giant American corporations are racking up sales. They're selling Asian and Latin American consumers everything from cars and cell phones to fancy Internet software and iPads. Forty percent of the S&P 500 biggest corporations are now doing more than 60 percent of their business abroad. And America's biggest investors are also going abroad to get a nice return on their money.

So don't worry about America's Big Money economy. According to a Wall Street Journal survey released Thursday, overall compensation in financial services will rise 5 percent this year, and employees in some businesses like asset management will get increases of 15 percent.

The Dow Jones Industrial Average is back to where it was before the Lehman bankruptcy filing triggered the financial collapse. And profits at America's largest corporations are heading upward.

But there's another American economy, and it's not on the mend. Call it the Average Worker economy.

Last Friday's jobs report showed 159,000 new private-sector jobs in October. That's better than previous months. But 125,000 net new jobs are needed just to keep up with the growth of the American labor force. So another way of expressing what happened to jobs in October is to say 24,000 were added over what we need just to stay even.

Yet the American economy has lost 15 million jobs since the start of the Great Recession. And if you add in the growth of the labor force -- including everyone too discouraged to look for a job -- we're down about 22 million.

Or to put it another way, we're still getting nowhere on jobs.

One out of eight breadwinners is still out of work. Most families in the Average Worker economy rely on two breadwinners. So if one out of eight isn't working, chances are high that family incomes are down compared to what they were three years ago.

And that means the bills aren't getting paid.

According to a recent Washington Post poll, more than half of all Americans -- 53 percent -- are worried about making their mortgage payments. This is many more than were worried two years ago, when the Great Recession hit bottom. Then, 37 percent expressed worry.

Delinquency rates on home loans are rising. Distressed sales are up as a percent of total sales.

Most people in the Average Worker economy own few shares of stock, if any. Their equity is in their homes. But with all the delinquencies and distressed sales, the housing market has a glut of homes for sale. As a result, home prices are still dropping. So the net worth of most Americans is still dropping.

And even though interest rates are falling, most people in the Average Worker economy can't refinance their homes. They can't get home equity loans. Banks don't want to lend to the Average Worker economy because people in it are considered bad credit risks. They still owe lots of money, their family incomes are down, and their net worth has fallen.

And according to the Reuters/University of Michigan survey of American consumers, expectations about personal finances are at an all time low.

Inhabitants of the Big Money economy are celebrating Republican wins last week. They figure financial regulations will be rolled back, environmental regulations will be canned, the Bush tax cut will be extended to the top 1 percent, and it will be harder for workers to form unions.

Inhabitants of the Average Worker economy aren't so sure. The economy has been so bad they're angry at politicians. They showed their anger at the ballot box. They took it out on incumbents.

But if nothing changes in the Average Worker economy, there will be hell to pay.

=========

Hell to pay? Who's going to pay and who's going to extract payment? America is so fncked, and completely unfnckable.

[MannyIsGod]

Only a limited mentality thinks the pie is a fixed size, and when someone does well, someone else doesn't.


You're a complete and utter fool. Inflation making the pie bigger doesn't mean shit when your share doesn't go up. THAT is the point.

[Wild Cobra]

You're a complete and utter fool. Inflation making the pie bigger doesn't mean shit when your share doesn't go up. THAT is the point.
So why do you support politicians who create this record debt and borrowing?

[MannyIsGod]

You make zero sense. But, I'm not surprised. I'll wait to see if anyone with actual brain cells responds to this thread, WC.

[clambake]

they even took our spurstalk cash!

[clambake]

unfortunately, some people need a master.

[clambake]

you guys think american greed stops at just raping other countries?

[BlairForceDejuan]

Life is hard! booo hooo

Natural Law is just that the cream rises to the top. The majority will never all reach the top. There are first-generation millionaires creating their wealth out of nothing still. This is America ffs. Banana Republic sounds cute coming out of Huffington's diatribe, but is is just for book-selling shock value.

[ChuckD]

Only a limited mentality thinks the pie is a fixed size, and when someone does well, someone else doesn't.

Only a fool doesn't understand the root causes of Bastille Day or Red October, or, quite frankly, the failure of the Mexican government going on right now. We're headed there right now. In probably 25-50 years, the super rich will be behind walls, and chaos will reign. Of course, idiots will still blame the blacks or the mexicans while the rich continue to rob us all.

[johnsmith]

The important thing about this thread is that the forum poster closest to resembling a monkey made a thread with the word 'bananas' in it.

[BlairForceDejuan]

Only a fool doesn't understand the root causes of Bastille Day or Red October, or, quite frankly, the failure of the Mexican government going on right now. We're headed there right now. In probably 25-50 years, the super rich will be behind walls, and chaos will reign. Of course, idiots will still blame the blacks or the mexicans while the rich continue to rob us all.

50 years of compound interest on average returns will make you a multi-millionaire by then which will make you millions of dollars better off than most of the American population. You are right that there will inevitably be only two classes (the agenda of the left, and the effect of the right imo), but it's really not that hard to make sure you end up on the more favorable side.

[angrydude]

As far as I am concerned, the only number that matters is your absolute standard of living. (as in how much do you own?)

And by that standard America is nowhere near a banana republic. And even if the rest of the world catches up, that won't change.

[ChuckD]

50 years of compound interest on average returns will make you a multi-millionaire by then which will make you millions of dollars better off than most of the American population. You are right that there will inevitably be only two classes (the agenda of the left, and the effect of the right imo), but it's really not that hard to make sure you end up on the more favorable side.

Being a millionaire doesn't mean dick, and will probably leave you on the wrong side of the divide, or at least make you a convenient target for the mobs, while the truly rich get over. I'm a software developer, make highish 5 figures, am 48 years old, and if you dropped a million dollars, tax free, in my lap, I couldn't retire on it at my current standard middle class lifestyle. I could easily live another 30 years, and the money would run out.

Being "rich" really starts at about $10M now, and no normal non Wall Street working person will ever sock away enough for that.

[Wild Cobra]

Only a fool doesn't understand the root causes of Bastille Day or Red October, or, quite frankly, the failure of the Mexican government going on right now. We're headed there right now. In probably 25-50 years, the super rich will be behind walls, and chaos will reign. Of course, idiots will still blame the blacks or the mexicans while the rich continue to rob us all.
And in our nation, it's because the liberals keep wanting to take more from those who have money, instead of striving to better themselves.

The slices of pie keep being reduced for the poor. Not because of the rich, but because the poor have become underachievers by their own actions, and the complacency of letting the government take care of them.

[Winehole23]

During the last crisis we immediately freaked out and pawned our future collective asses for the sake of our financial sector's apparent inability to pay in late 2008.

If we can't redeem the pawn ticket, that's a big, big problem.

There will be hell to pay if there's a next time. Hoping (not betting) hard there isn't a next time. We somehow manage to feather it out instead of it feathering us out in relentless cascading failure.


(heroic grimace)

[ChuckD]

And in our nation, it's because the liberals keep wanting to take more from those who have money, instead of striving to better themselves.

The slices of pie keep being reduced for the poor. Not because of the rich, but because the poor have become underachievers by their own actions, and the complacency of letting the government take care of them.

This goes WAY beyond the non-working poor anymore, WC. It's about airline pilots who's company goes under due to shit management, and in bankruptcy, they just take the entire pension fund to pay off bad debts. It's about people getting laid off because their job gets outsourced so the CEO can see an uptick of a few cents on the stock price so he can afford his new yacht. You think you're fighting this shit with Tea Party, but what you're really doing is electing the enablers of the wealthy.

TWO FUCKING DAYS AFTER THE ELECTION, I saw a GOP congresscritter calling for loosening restrictions on banking. That's what you voted for, and that's what your gullible ass is getting. They're ready to blow up the economy again while lining their pockets.

[Oh, Gee!!]

if I see all of us being swept away by a gigantic tornado, does that make me crazy?

[Cry Havoc]

And in our nation, it's because the liberals keep wanting to take more from those who have money, instead of striving to better themselves.

The slices of pie keep being reduced for the poor. Not because of the rich, but because the poor have become underachievers by their own actions, and the complacency of letting the government take care of them.

You're right. Wall Street workers deserve those billions (trillions?) of dollars in bonuses they paid to their employees after nearly bankrupting the country with insanely illegal practices.

I really wish you'd open your damn eyes. The argument of "people who are rich deserve it because they work harder" is so old it dates back to when caste systems were in place and given based on familial progression. "Well, they're royalty, so they deserve that title/station." Same fucking principle, and people like you perpetuate a system that allows wealthy individuals to extort the lower classes freely with no repercussions.

Basically, you're either clueless or you think the majority of people deserve to go hungry while others are planning to make their 3rd yacht the most opulent one yet.

[Cry Havoc]

1% of Americans deserve 80% of the profit! They work 12 trillion times harder than the other 99% combined!

[Winehole23]

The other 99% needs to work even harder. Daddy Warbucks wants a new luxury liner.

[greyforest]

Only a limited mentality thinks the pie is a fixed size, and when someone does well, someone else doesn't.

26% is a lot bigger slice than 9% of any size pie. inflation is based on speculation and isn't really in the scope of what the data is trying to show: the wealthy elite are dramatically raping everyone else for money.

[Wild Cobra]

This goes WAY beyond the non-working poor anymore, WC. It's about airline pilots who's company goes under due to shit management, and in bankruptcy, they just take the entire pension fund to pay off bad debts. It's about people getting laid off because their job gets outsourced so the CEO can see an uptick of a few cents on the stock price so he can afford his new yacht. You think you're fighting this shit with Tea Party, but what you're really doing is electing the enablers of the wealthy.

And that's a different topic yet.

[Wild Cobra]

You're right. Wall Street workers deserve those billions (trillions?) of dollars in bonuses they paid to their employees after nearly bankrupting the country with insanely illegal practices.

I really wish you'd open your damn eyes. The argument of "people who are rich deserve it because they work harder" is so old it dates back to when caste systems were in place and given based on familial progression. "Well, they're royalty, so they deserve that title/station." Same fucking principle, and people like you perpetuate a system that allows wealthy individuals to extort the lower classes freely with no repercussions.

Basically, you're either clueless or you think the majority of people deserve to go hungry while others are planning to make their 3rd yacht the most opulent one yet.
People deserve what they earn. Some earn money in different ways. However, for people of lesser means, and politicians who want to secure their vote, to take from those who have achieved and redistribute... That should be illegal.

[Wild Cobra]

1% of Americans deserve 80% of the profit! They work 12 trillion times harder than the other 99% combined!
Who are you to say they don't?

Everyone has the opportunity to better themselves and the chance to achieve great wealth. You should strive to be one of them instead of trying to steal from them.

[Wild Cobra]

26% is a lot bigger slice than 9% of any size pie. inflation is based on speculation and isn't really in the scope of what the data is trying to show: the wealthy elite are dramatically raping everyone else for money.
How are they taking by force? I see people voting in corrupt politicians voluntarily to steal others money. If anything, the liberals are raping the achievers.

[RandomGuy]

People deserve what they earn.

Patently false. To wit:

Did the Home Depot chairman who tanked the company's stock deserve a $240M severance package when they forced him out?

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/jan2007/home-j08.shtml


Shareholder outrage over exorbitant compensation and persistently low stock performance forced Home Depot head Robert Nardelli to abruptly resign last Wednesday. The chief executive and chairman is taking with him at least $210 million in severance , including a cash payment of $20 million and stock options currently worth at least $77 million.

Notably, the total amount of Nardelli’s “golden parachute” is worth seven times the $30 million earmarked for those among the retail chain’s 355,000 employees who demonstrated good customer service. Home Depot is the second-largest US retailer behind Wal-Mart.

A friend of mine once remarked: There are two kinds of Republicans, millioniares and suckers.

[TheManFromAcme]

Being a millionaire doesn't mean dick, and will probably leave you on the wrong side of the divide, or at least make you a convenient target for the mobs, while the truly rich get over. I'm a software developer, make highish 5 figures, am 48 years old, and if you dropped a million dollars, tax free, in my lap, I couldn't retire on it at my current standard middle class lifestyle. I could easily live another 30 years, and the money would run out.

Being "rich" really starts at about $10M now, and no normal non Wall Street working person will ever sock away enough for that.

Good point Chuck.

Heck, I can remember thinking that $1000 a month salary was a fortune. I make more than that a week and like you, in the higher-end of a 5 figure salary, and still clip coupons.

[DarrinS]

class warfare thread

original

[admiralsnackbar]

class warfare thread

original

Run along to youtube -- it's not too late to spice it up with some 3rd-party content.

[Wild Cobra]

Patently false. To wit:

Did the Home Depot chairman who tanked the company's stock deserve a $240M severance package when they forced him out?

http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/jan2007/home-j08.shtml
I guess he wasn't a good enough consideration when they took him on to sign the contract that gave that to him. Maybe instead, those running the lower levels that agreed tomhis golden parachute were the stupid ones, who aren't earning their keep.

A friend of mine once remarked: There are two kinds of liberals, inhereted millioniares and suckers.

[MannyIsGod]

Oh so when a CEO negotiates the employees are stupid but when a Union does the same thing its the employees who are still being stupid.

I've never seen someone twist and spin so much.

[MannyIsGod]

Oh so when a CEO negotiates the employees are stupid but when a Union does the same thing its the employees who are still being stupid.

I've never seen someone twist and spin so much.

[TeyshaBlue]

I started to write this argument off due to the asinine comparison of corporate pay to corrupt, foreign political structures..as if this were anything close to a valid comparison.

Then I remembered when my ex CEO got fired for cooking the books in an aquisition that, when fully vetted, ereased 11 billion dollars via our stock tanking virtually overnight. My retirement was roasted...as was everyone else who was profit sharing. People who were planning on retiring were boned. The dick walked away with 15 million, 5 years of rent free office, staff and car allowance for the same time. This was awarded to him by the BOD who themselves, were CEO's of other companies.

Suddenly, the OP seemed a little less ridiculous.:depressed

[CuckingFunt]

People deserve what they earn.

The problem, of course, is that most people don't earn what they deserve.

[RandomGuy]

class warfare thread

original

A two line response from Smiley-boy.

Shocking.

[RandomGuy]

I guess he wasn't a good enough consideration when they took him on to sign the contract that gave that to him. Maybe instead, those running the lower levels that agreed to his golden parachute were the stupid ones, who aren't earning their keep.

Boards of directors are often chosen by... the Chairman. The compensation committee is chosen by that board. The Chairman of the Board often happens to be... the CEO.

If I got to pick the people who decided how much to pay me, I would be making a fuck of a lot more than I am now.

I can show you a study done that shows an INVERSE correlation between CEO pay and stock performance.

Lastly, you are assuming the rank and file of any corporation actually knows how much the CEO is paid. They don't, anymore than the average shareholder.

Sorry, blaming the victim doesn't work here.

[Winehole23]

A two line response from Smiley-boy.

Shocking.Damage control. The less DarrinS says the less likely he is to shoot himself down.

[DarrinS]

It's really unfair that Kobe Bryant makes more than a towel boy.

:cry

[boutons_deux]

Anybody still waiting for their share of the trickle down (and other Repug/conservative lies)?

[MannyIsGod]

It's really unfair that Kobe Bryant makes more than a towel boy.

:cry

I know you've proven time and time again that you lack the ability to understand context of sociological (or any) debates but this is especially funny.

[MannyIsGod]

I started to write this argument off due to the asinine comparison of corporate pay to corrupt, foreign political structures..as if this were anything close to a valid comparison.

Then I remembered when my ex CEO got fired for cooking the books in an aquisition that, when fully vetted, ereased 11 billion dollars via our stock tanking virtually overnight. My retirement was roasted...as was everyone else who was profit sharing. People who were planning on retiring were boned. The dick walked away with 15 million, 5 years of rent free office, staff and car allowance for the same time. This was awarded to him by the BOD who themselves, were CEO's of other companies.

Suddenly, the OP seemed a little less ridiculous.:depressed

They have the power and they use it to their benefit while the others flounder. Of course, as long as our standard of living is relatively better than others in the world (as has been pointed out in this thread) people will be fine with it.

[Cry Havoc]

I guess he wasn't a good enough consideration when they took him on to sign the contract that gave that to him. Maybe instead, those running the lower levels that agreed tomhis golden parachute were the stupid ones, who aren't earning their keep.

:lmao

This is seriously sig worthy. Are you purposely that naive?

[Cry Havoc]

I know you've proven time and time again that you lack the ability to understand context of sociological (or any) debates but this is especially funny.

[DarrinS]

What determines how much a CEO is worth?

What determines how much Kobe, Lebron, etc. make a year?

What determines how much a movie star can make per film?

[MannyIsGod]

Are you trying to justify the pay CEO's make and the increase that pay has undergone while the rest of the country has floundered? I mean really?

Darrin if you can do so, then I'd love to read it. I'm not even kidding.

[DarrinS]

Are you trying to justify the pay CEO's make and the increase that pay has undergone while the rest of the country has floundered? I mean really?

Darrin if you can do so, then I'd love to read it. I'm not even kidding.



Hasn't the pay of athletes and Hollywood actors outpaced the pay of your "average joe"?

Why is that?

[DarrinS]

By they way, companies like Microsoft have created a LOT of wealth for other people (even some secretaries became millionaires) -- not to mention, millions donated to charity.


For the record, neither Bill Gates or Steve Jobs are conservatives.

[RandomGuy]

It's really unfair that Kobe Bryant makes more than a towel boy.

:cry

Smiley-boy strikes again
leaving us all astonished
at his brevity.


:p:














HA!

(edit. changed post into haiku form, cause its funny that's why)

[RandomGuy]

What determines how much a CEO is worth?

What determines how much Kobe, Lebron, etc. make a year?

What determines how much a movie star can make per film?

Kobe does not get to pick his compensation committee, does he?

The assumption that CEO pay has anything to do with efficient markets is fundamentally flawed.

The free-market very often does not set CEO pay, CEOs do.

Nice work if you can get it.

[MannyIsGod]

Hasn't the pay of athletes and Hollywood actors outpaced the pay of your "average joe"?

Why is that?

Can you justify the pay increase of CEO's as compared to everyone else or not? It was a very simple question that was asked of you.

[DarrinS]

Heck, this is such a great country, that some douche can create Facebook, a social network for those who are insecure, narcissistic and have low self-esteem (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1310230/Facebook-users-narcissistic-insecure-low-self-esteem.html)
, and become a billionaire.

[MannyIsGod]

By they way, companies like Microsoft have created a LOT of wealth for other people (even some secretaries became millionaires) -- not to mention, millions donated to charity.


For the record, neither Bill Gates or Steve Jobs are conservatives.

You're so fixed on this being some kind of an argument against rich people that you can't see the actual point of the OP. If you would for one second read the OP, ready Teysha's post, and read some of what RG is trying to tell you about how CEO's get paid you might understand the point.

[MannyIsGod]

Darrin I'm not sure you have one critical thinking bone in your body.

[ChumpDumper]

Heck, this is such a great country, that some douche can post a bunch of nonsense from work and pretend he's worth every penny he's being paid.

[MannyIsGod]

Heck, this is such a great country, that some douche can post a bunch of nonsense from work and pretend he's worth every penny he's being paid.

He has software patents.

:lol

[clambake]

Heck, this is such a great country, that some douche can post a bunch of nonsense from work and pretend he's worth every penny he's being paid.

:lmao

[Cry Havoc]

Heck, this is such a great country, that some douche can create Facebook, a social network for those who are insecure, narcissistic and have low self-esteem (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1310230/Facebook-users-narcissistic-insecure-low-self-esteem.html)
, and become a billionaire.

An ad-hominem made out of strawmen. That's impressive.

[Cry Havoc]

http://butnowyouknow.files.wordpress.com/2008/12/golden-parachute.jpg

[DarrinS]

Why is the argument any different for CEO's than it is for professional athletes or Hollywood actors? They each negotiate their salary and generate wealth for the people paying them.

[clambake]

thats fucking stupid

[TeyshaBlue]

Why is the argument any different for CEO's than it is for professional athletes or Hollywood actors? They each negotiate their salary and generate wealth for the people paying them.

Honestly, you can't see the difference between a defensive tackle and a CEO?

[MannyIsGod]

The millions of people employed by companies run by Defensive Tackles since 1980 have not see growth in their salary while Defensive Tackles salaries have soared. Warren Sapp also gets a hell of a lot of pull in what legislation is passed and who the legislators are that pass it.

No difference at all really.

[DarrinS]

Honestly, you can't see the difference between a defensive tackle and a CEO?


Kobe makes about 20 million/year and the CEO of GE makes about 15 million/year.

A-Rod makes about 28 mil/yr.

Oprah makes about 223 mil/yr. She's a celeb and CEO so you can hate her twice as much.

[clambake]

Kobe makes about 20 million/year and the CEO of GE makes about 15 million/year.

A-Rod makes about 28 mil/yr.

Oprah makes about 223 mil/yr. She's a celeb and CEO so you can hate her twice as much.

you are this stupid.

[DarrinS]

The millions of people employed by companies run by Defensive Tackles since 1980 have not see growth in their salary while Defensive Tackles salaries have soared. Warren Sapp also gets a hell of a lot of pull in what legislation is passed and who the legislators are that pass it.

No difference at all really.



Why do you hate rich people like Oprah?

[Cry Havoc]

Why is the argument any different for CEO's than it is for professional athletes or Hollywood actors? They each negotiate their salary and generate wealth for the people paying them.

When was the last time you saw an athlete handed billions of dollars for drastically under-performing? Keep in mind, this is TOTALLY SEPARATE of his existing contract.

The scale in pay here is completely different. The Wizards paying Gilbert Arenas $40,000,000 doesn't really matter in the long term scheme of things. Several CEOs getting tens of billions of dollars of company money for tanking said company most certainly makes an impact on that business.

The most damning thing of all though, is that you do see athletes treated this way when they behave in the way many CEOs lately have. Pete Rose is continually vilified for what he did to baseball, which is nothing compared to what happened in Enron and tens to hundreds of other companies.

[MannyIsGod]

Its not really about CEO pay so much as it is the fact that they control the pay, they control the pay of those under them, and they've used that control to funnel pay increases to themselves but not to anyone else.

The CEO's have their hands on the pump that gives us all water and while they bathe in that water the rest of us barely have enough to drink and people like Darrin think its because THEY deserve it and the rest of us just aren't trying hard enough. Quite frankly, its almost like Stockholm syndrome.

[MannyIsGod]

Why do you hate rich people like Oprah?

Why do you hate critical thinking?

[DarrinS]

Its not really about CEO pay so much as it is the fact that they control the pay, they control the pay of those under them, and they've used that control to funnel pay increases to themselves but not to anyone else.

The CEO's have their hands on the pump that gives us all water and while they bathe in that water the rest of us barely have enough to drink and people like Darrin think its because THEY deserve it and the rest of us just aren't trying hard enough. Quite frankly, its almost like Stockholm syndrome.



Still, people like Gates, Jobs, Larry Page, Sergey Brin, etc. etc. etc. have CREATED (not saved) a TON of jobs and spin-off industries. None of those guys are conservatives BTW.

[DarrinS]

Why do you hate critical thinking?


I don't. I hate socialists.

[TeyshaBlue]

The millions of people employed by companies run by Defensive Tackles since 1980 have not see growth in their salary while Defensive Tackles salaries have soared. Warren Sapp also gets a hell of a lot of pull in what legislation is passed and who the legislators are that pass it.

No difference at all really.

:lol:lol

Darrin, actors and football players are entertainers. That's quite abit different than the position of CEO of a corporation, don't ya think?

Along with that difference, are a host of other differences, not the least of which is what constitutes "earned" pay.

:bang

[DarrinS]

:lol:lol

Darrin, actors and football players are entertainers. That's quite abit different than the position of CEO of a corporation, don't ya think?

Along with that difference, are a host of other differences, not the least of which is what constitutes "earned" pay.

:bang



Fine. Throw out athletes and actors, even though the growth in their salaries have far outpaced the "underlings" that work for them in supporting roles.


I still brought up examples of Bill Gates, Steve Jobs, Larry Page, Sergey Brin, and yes, Oprah Winfrey, who is CEO of Harpo Productions. Do you have issues with these liberals paying themselves billions? Once they've paid their expenses, paid their employees competitive wages, paid their stockholders, and paid their taxes, what do you want them to do with what they have left over?

[ChumpDumper]

Did Oprah run her business into the ground and took a golden parachute from it?