Quick Grades – Spurs at Bobcats - Nov. 8

[timvp]

Quick Grades – Spurs at Bobcats (http://www.sanantoniodispatch.com/san-antonio-spurs/spurs-grades/quick-grades-spurs-at-bobcats/)

By LJ Ellis (http://www.sanantoniodispatch.com/author/ljellis/) | San Antonio Dispatch (http://www.sanantoniodispatch.com/)


After an extremely ugly first half, the San Antonio Spurs finally found their footing in the third quarter against the Charlotte Bobcats. Thanks to a barrage of three-pointers, the Spurs were up by nine points with less than three minutes remaining. Somehow, the Spurs managed to blow the lead. Up by two points with the ball, Manu Ginobili hit a banker with five seconds to go to seal the 95-91 victory.

Tim Duncan B The Bobcats swarmed Duncan all night but he fought through it and came up big — especially defensively.

Manu Ginobili B+ Questionable decisions in the first half. Much better all-around play in final two quarters.

Tony Parker B Fantastic defensively. Nice passing. Struggled with shot and collapsed at the end.

Richard Jefferson B- Though shooting was off for first time this season, he rebounded and passed extremely well.

DeJuan Blair C+ Better on the defensive end. A little better offensively. Still nowhere near potential.

Antonio McDyess A- Another quality outing for McDyess. His four blocks were huge in this physical battle.

George Hill D Way too passive. Not making plays for himself or others. Not very good on defense, either.

Gary Neal A+ His shooting was the key for San Antonio’s win. Willing and able to take open shots. Battled on D.

James Anderson C+ Forced into a number of tough shots. Made a handful of mistakes. Shooting still a plus.

Tiago Splitter B+ Wonderful defense at times. Good work on the boards. Two big follow slams.

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Spurs Preview: The Week Ahead (http://www.sanantoniodispatch.com/san-antonio-spurs/san-antonio-spurs-news/spurs-preview-the-week-ahead-nov-8-14th/)
Player by Player Breakdown – Five Games In (http://www.sanantoniodispatch.com/san-antonio-spurs/san-antonio-spurs-news/player-by-player-breakdown-five-games-in/)



http://www.sanantoniodispatch.com/san-antonio-spurs/spurs-grades/quick-grades-spurs-at-bobcats/

[BlairForceDejuan]

Only caught the 2nd half, but Hill looked atrocious trying to run the offense. :depressed

[pjjrfan]

HIll had problems with the trapping defense in the first half, and in the second I think he got saddled with an inexperienced group and the Bobcats focused on him the enitre time that unit was on the floor. Manu, Manu, Manu, damn he is far from being consistent, but like saturday he came up big in the clutch. I thought Tony played excellent defense especially in the first half in fact the whole unit of Tony, Tim, Manu, Jefferson and HIll showed some big time D in the last qtr.

[8FOR!3]

I want to point out that Blair has played better every single game this season. He's still got a long way to go, but he's progressing a little bit and become more comfortable each game.

[EricB]

Hill looked like he did two years ago....

[wildbill2u]

Tiago needs to get in game shape and move into the starting role at Center.

[yavozerb]

I want to point out that Blair has played better every single game this season. He's still got a long way to go, but he's progressing a little bit and become more comfortable each game.

At this rate he should be rounding into form by game 70.....:lol

[jag]

Solid grades. I hate to be part of the blow-timvp-bandwagon, but you're good at what you do.

[Pauleta14]

What's happening with Hill?

Did he put too much pressure on himself about the "next step" for him?
Is he still injured?

He's not the same confident guy, he is playing like a rookie right now...

[Old School 44]

Nice win on the road, but turnovers still a killer.
Too many unnecessary telegraphed long passes.

[DesignatedT]

Pretty much agree with everything except Anderson. I thought he deserved at least a B tonight. He got put into some tough situations with the shot clock running down which hurt his fg % but hit a couple big threes during the game, hustled his ass off and played solid defense IMO.

[HarlemHeat37]

Hill has absolutely no confidence and no balls right now..he isn't even looking to attack..when he has the ball and Manu/Tony are on the floor, he's just dribbling the ball out, waiting to hand it off to them every time, unlike last year, where he finally learned to do his own thing..

When the lanes are opening up for him, he isn't taking them..

He can't make his corner 3 anymore..

What the fuck did he do during the off-season?..is ducks going to tell us that he's been on Twitter too much?..

[Nathan89]

Solid grades. I hate to be part of the blow-timvp-bandwagon, but I couldn't resist.

Fixed

[yavozerb]

Tiago needs to get in game shape and move into the starting role at Center.

I think he plays well with Blair...Would not mind seeing a TD/mcdyess starting unit with Tiago/Blair unit to follow

[ceperez]

Pretty much agree with everything except Anderson. I thought he deserved at least a B tonight. He got put into some tough situations with the shot clock running down which hurt his fg % but hit a couple big threes during the game, hustled his ass off and played solid defense IMO.

agree

[GSH]

A guy McDyess' age, playing for the MLE? We should probably be happy for a B performance. He's playing like someone a lot younger, and without him we would have been in trouble in most of these early games. He looks like he could keep going for several more years. And he's making me hope he will.

Tiago still isn't into regular season game shape, but he's been showing us what to expect. He sucked out one foul that salvaged a possession. And that monster follow-up dunk really changed the momentum of the game. We had been struggling to get separation, and that play put us over the hump. He's a smart player. I'm really excited about what he's going to look like by the All-Star break.

[024]

cool thing is that while there is A LOT of room for improvement, the spurs still seem to be cruising against the sub .500 teams. this is where pop will really have to step up in coaching to elevate this team to the next level when meeting higher level competition like the thunder.

[barbacoataco]

Hill looks like he isn't 100%. I haven't seen that explosive first step. Blair continues to struggle but I've noticed he does better when he isn't matched against much taller players. Hopefully once Spliiter fits in and Bonner is healthy again, they can use Blair more in the right situations and limit having him face up against 7 ftrs.
McDyess really has been playing well.

[easjer]

Is there any word about lingering effects from Hill's injury? I'm wondering if the fact that Tony was out for such a long stretch last year is contributing to Hill's identity crisis. Last year, he had to step up, and there weren't many stretches when the Big Three were healthy at the same time. When they were, Hill ran in the second unit, and worked with them. It seems to me like he's busy deferring to the stars, and not sure where the line is for him in terms of creating his own play. That has nothing to do with defense, mind. No excuse for the lackluster efforts he's been displaying. He IS a better defender than what we're seeing this season.

Hope he breaks out of this little slump soon.

[yavozerb]

This years schedule could not have been any better for the spurs right now, especially when they are relying on so many young players to contribute.

[Jess]

Anyone else wondering where Splitter's minutes will come from once Bonner returns? Can't help but the think The Beast is playing his way out of the rotation, yet somehow still starting.

[DPG21920]

It's not Hill's injury. He was playing terrible before that. It is a mental thing with Hill. Almost any time he struggles it's mental.

[Chachachango]

Hill is RJ of last year. Trade anyone?

[DesignatedT]

Hill and Blair are playing absolutely terrible, good thing is its still very early in the season.

[jestersmash]

I wish Hill would take a page from Ginobili and learn the "cradle" drive, thereby greatly increasing his chances of getting to the line, thereby giving him the chance to regain his confidence by (hopefully) getting a couple of easy points at the FT line each game.

Ginobili doesn't need to drive as much because his outside shot is so consistent (especially for this game). What does Ginobili do when his outside shot doesn't fall? He starts to drive with the intention of drawing contact, thereby helping to jumpstart his confidence.

There's a difference between driving to the hole looking first and foremost for contact, and driving to the line looking first and foremost to actually score the ball (any contact is just an added bonus).

Ginobili is using the latter on his relatively rare drives to the basket so far.

I want Hill to employ the former to regain his confidence. We've seen Ginobili employ the former in the past. I'd like to see Hill employ it now. He has the ball handling ability and control to pull it off.

[easjer]

Anyone else wondering where Splitter's minutes will come from once Bonner returns? Can't help but the think The Beast is playing his way out of the rotation, yet somehow still starting.

I think Bonner is the odd man out of the rotation. He doesn't rebound as well - ok, well, Blair needs to catch up, but his potential is higher/better - and his defense in sub-par. In for a new look? In for a few minutes for energy or to spread the floor? Sure. But I think Bonner is likelier to be a spot-player in the rotation.

The biggest problem for Blair is being dropped in as a starter. He'll figure it out or he'll resume his second unit energy role. I think the evidence of Blair's continued improvement is likely to mean that he keeps his chance. Barring a lack of effort at improving and attitude problems, I think he has to be the choice for the second unit over Bonner in most situations.

(nothing against Bonner - I don't hate him as so many do. I just think he'll be best utilized in a support/spot role)

[Nathan89]

How long is the gary neal contract? Please be a few years.

[yavozerb]

Anyone else wondering where Splitter's minutes will come from once Bonner returns? Can't help but the think The Beast is playing his way out of the rotation, yet somehow still starting.

I think as long as Neal and anderson are hitting their 3pt shots I think this well hurt bonner since his outside shooting is not needed as much.

[jag]

It's not Hill's injury. He was playing terrible before that. It is a mental thing with Hill. Almost any time he struggles it's mental.

I think Hill is psychologically weak. He kind of reminds me of Beno. I feel like Pop knows that he constantly needs to be propped up, so he always stroked his ego and talked about how he was his favorite Spur. Pop wants to get the best out of his guys and he's always playing psychological games...he's pretty much doing with Hill what he should have done with Beno.

[jag]

How long is the gary neal contract? Please be a few years.

He signed a 3 year guaranteed contract before the season started.

[TD 21]

Hill has absolutely no confidence and no balls right now..he isn't even looking to attack..when he has the ball and Manu/Tony are on the floor, he's just dribbling the ball out, waiting to hand it off to them every time, unlike last year, where he finally learned to do his own thing..

When the lanes are opening up for him, he isn't taking them..

He can't make his corner 3 anymore..

What the fuck did he do during the off-season?..is ducks going to tell us that he's been on Twitter too much?..

It's as if he forgot how to play.

Generally, the Spurs shouldn't risk losing a game against a weak opponent at the expense of trying to get a player going, but he's too key a player to let this go on for too long and trickle down affect is that Parker and especially Ginobili, are playing too many minutes.

One of these upcoming games, Pop has to hand stop babying Hill, hand him the keys to the offense and put the onus on him to create. No playing with one of Parker or Ginobili. Just play the entire second unit at once for more than a brief stretch and let Hill be what he has to be if he's going to continue to be the sixth man: the offensive linchpin. Even if he's struggling, leave him in for an extended stretch and let him play through it.

He's already lacking confidence, pulling him relatively quickly is only going to exacerbate the situation and make it so that he's thinking too much and trying too hard to not make a mistake while playing.

The other thing about the second unit is, even though not one is all that good at creating, there should be enough offense amongst Hill, Neal and Anderson, to play a stretch each half (against lesser teams) simultaneously. And if there isn't, then that needs to be found out for certain now. But right now, it isn't being given a chance.

[DespЏrado]

Hill looked stiff tonight and was slow to get the sets running, he just doesn't seem to be enjoying the game right now.

But the game will come for Hill and Blair at some point, the talent and hunger is there for both of them, they just aren't playing with any sort of comfort level at this point. Struggling through this will make them better later in the season.

The win was ugly, but this could have been an easy loss if they lacked energy. Good to get the win.

[mingus]

good to see that the Spurs won. wasnt able to watcht the game. good to see Neal play so well and know that he's not a one hit wonder. hopefully he's not a two hit wonder either. the jury is still out on him, but i look for good things to come from this guy in the future.

it's shitty that Hill is playing so bad. wish he at least showed defensive ability because that's what they need from him. that might be the only way he can gain an upperhand on Neal and Anderson because i think those two guys are better than him offensively.

[jestersmash]

It's as if he forgot how to play.

Generally, the Spurs shouldn't risk losing a game against a weak opponent at the expense of trying to get a player going, but he's too key a player to let this go on for too long and trickle down affect is that Parker and especially Ginobili, are playing too many minutes.

One of these upcoming games, Pop has to hand stop babying Hill, hand him the keys to the offense and put the onus on him to create. No playing with one of Parker or Ginobili. Just play the entire second unit at once for more than a brief stretch and let Hill be what he has to be if he's going to continue to be the sixth man: the offensive linchpin. Even if he's struggling, leave him in for an extended stretch and let him play through it.

He's already lacking confidence, pulling him relatively quickly is only going to exacerbate the situation and make it so that he's thinking too much and trying too hard to not make a mistake while playing.

The other thing about the second unit is, even though not one is all that good at creating, there should be enough offense amongst Hill, Neal and Anderson, to play a stretch each half (against lesser teams) simultaneously. And if there isn't, then that needs to be found out for certain now. But right now, it isn't being given a chance.

But...Pop did do that with Hill for a stretch of this game, and the results were disastrous.

I agree it needs to be done more, but let's not suggest that Pop isn't doing this already, because he is. He forced Hill into the position of being the chief offensive catalyst for a small stretch while the big 4 were on the bench. The offense was sloppy and stagnant; hence Pop injected Jefferson and Ginobili in not too long afterwards.

The fact remains, though, that Pop is already doing what you are suggesting.

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Even if this team doesn't end up having what it takes to make it to the Finals, watching the rookies is good enough reason to watch. We've seen for years the Spurs stack up on vets trying to make it to the top, and now with all the rookies playing well and seeing the development of Hill and Blair, it's good to see a different type of Spurs basketball and seeing the beginning of possibly the post-Duncan era team. Just a weird but good feeling.

[easjer]

Even if this team doesn't end up having what it takes to make it to the Finals, watching the rookies is good enough reason to watch. We've seen for years the Spurs stack up on vets trying to make it to the top, and now with all the rookies playing well and seeing the development of Hill and Blair, it's good to see a different type of Spurs basketball and seeing the beginning of possibly the post-Duncan era team. Just a weird but good feeling.

Dunno if it's totally the same for you, but it's a bit of a relief. There's been a lingering question mark over things for awhile, what will happen next? The fact that options are being put in place, transitional pieces and training are happening is good. Naturally, some drop-off is inevitable, but no one wants to see a precipitous drop-off and such a thing could be a death-knell for the SA Spurs. It's good to actually see steps being taken, rather than mere lip service being paid.

[TD 21]

But...Pop did do that with Hill for a stretch of this game, and the results were disastrous.

I agree it needs to be done more, but let's not suggest that Pop isn't doing this already, because he is. He forced Hill into the position of being the chief offensive catalyst for a small stretch while the big 4 were on the bench. The offense was sloppy and stagnant; hence Pop injected Jefferson and Ginobili in not too long afterwards.

The fact remains, though, that Pop is already doing what you are suggesting.

What did I say? For more than a brief stretch!

Ultimately, Pop did what he had to do to win the game. Which is fine. But over the long haul, Ginobili can't keep running himself ragged for 33 or 34 minutes a game.

Pop needs to find out whether Ginobili starting and Hill coming off the bench can work and the only way to find that out is to let Hill sink or swim in one of these upcoming games (preferably the Clippers game). Ultimately, if Hill can't handle being the primary creator and scorer for the second unit, then Ginobili will have to go back to the bench. That or Pop is going to have to get more creative with his rotation than he has been thus far.

Winning is great, but this team has to win in the same way the Celtics win and I don't necessarily mean stylistically. I mean it more so in the sense that they have to win without overextending the big three plus McDyess. As Splitter get's into game shape and Bonner returns, that should take care of Duncan and McDyess. Parker is the least worrisome of the four, because he's the youngest. But what about Ginobili?

[ducks]

spurs want manu to play more minutes this year
I think it is foolish we shall see

suns announcers said so when spurs played suns

another 11 three point attempts for manu the gunner

[jestersmash]

What did I say? For more than a brief stretch!

Ultimately, Pop did what he had to do to win the game. Which is fine. But over the long haul, Ginobili can't keep running himself ragged for 33 or 34 minutes a game.

Pop needs to find out whether Ginobili starting and Hill coming off the bench can work and the only way to find that out is to let Hill sink or swim in one of these upcoming games (preferably the Clippers game). Ultimately, if Hill can't handle being the primary creator and scorer for the second unit, then Ginobili will have to go back to the bench. That or Pop is going to have to get more creative with his rotation than he has been thus far.

Winning is great, but this team has to win in the same way the Celtics win and I don't necessarily mean stylistically. I mean it more so in the sense that they have to win without overextending the big three plus McDyess. As Splitter get's into game shape and Bonner returns, that should take care of Duncan and McDyess. Parker is the least worrisome of the four, because he's the youngest. But what about Ginobili?

Then what are you even arguing? I don't understand.

There's every indication that Pop has not given up on Hill given that he gave Hill "the keys" for a brief stretch while the game was on the line no less.

Giving a floundering player the keys for long stretches if it's reasonably clear that it will lead to a team loss isn't intelligent, as you admit, so what do you want Pop to do that he isn't already doing (or trying to do) right now?

Pop's already doing what you suggested, and there's every indication that he's going to try to give Hill longer stretches when available. Again, what on earth are you trying to argue?

[jestersmash]

If the spurs haven't had many (any) opportunities to give "scrub" players minutes, it's senseless to harp on Pop for not giving said scrub players minutes. The opportunities haven't been there plain and simple.

If we had been blowing teams out and Pop was keeping Ginobili and Parker in in lieu of Hill, then I would understand your concerns, but that hasn't happened because we haven't even had such an opportunity.

If anything, Pop was rather ballsy to even allow Hill to run the offense for a limited stretch when the Spurs had a measly 3 or 4 point lead.

[Deimosfobos]

ty timvp, love your grades.

[TD 21]

Then what are you even arguing? I don't understand.

There's every indication that Pop has not given up on Hill given that he gave Hill "the keys" for a brief stretch while the game was on the line no less.

Giving a floundering player the keys for long stretches if it's reasonably clear that it will lead to a team loss isn't intelligent, as you admit, so what do you want Pop to do that he isn't already doing (or trying to do) right now?

Pop's already doing what you suggested, and there's every indication that he's going to try to give Hill longer stretches when available. Again, what on earth are you trying to argue?

Exactly what I've already said.

Sooner rather than later, if Hill is going to continue to be the sixth man, he's going to have to carry the offense for stretches against mediocre and worse teams. That's how this team is going to be able to get Ginobili and to a lesser extent, Parker, through the regular season without completely wearing them out. They're not going to be able to do it the way they're doing it now.

[toki9]

spurs want manu to play more minutes this year
I think it is foolish we shall see

suns announcers said so when spurs played suns

another 11 three point attempts for manu the gunner

Maybe that's a trade off by design...more minutes for him, but cutting back on drives and increasing his outside shots in order to conserve his body...much like Duncan playing more out of the post

[AussieFanKurt]

Hill can't run an offence and don't think he ever will be able to

[Ice009]

I disagree strongly about Manu going back to the bench. IMO the bench minutes where Manu is the primary offensive option take more of a toll than starters minutes. When Manu is playing off the the bench he has to go all out for every second on the court, but when he is starting I think he can rest a little more even if he does play more minutes. I completely disagree with anyone saying that he needs to go back to the bench just so you can regulate minutes.

[gameFACE]

Larry Brown's trick almost worked at the end there - takes his starters out with just under two minutes left and a 9 point Spurs lead. The Spurs relax and then all of a sudden find themselves having to pull their pants back up.

[#2!]

Richard Jefferson deserves better than a B-, maybe not by much, but a B at least. The biggest problem many people had with Richard last season was that he had zero impact on games in which he wasn't scoring. His effort was always better when he was getting touches/points.

Tonight he put up season highs for rebounding and assists despite having his worst shooting night of the season. That's effort.

[#2!]

Hill looked stiff tonight and was slow to get the sets running, he just doesn't seem to be enjoying the game right now.

But the game will come for Hill and Blair at some point, the talent and hunger is there for both of them, they just aren't playing with any sort of comfort level at this point. Struggling through this will make them better later in the season.

Hopefully Tiago will be in shape and starting by midseason. Pairing Blair and George Hill together might give them each a boost in energy and confidence given their talk about being best friends during training camp.

Clearly they both need to break out of their respective slumps before midseason, but their chemistry could be enough to give them both an extra edge.

[MoSpur]

The best defense the Spurs have played all year. Especially in the fourth quarter. It wasn't the defense of previous championship years, but much better than their previous games

[Mr.Bottomtooth]

Dunno if it's totally the same for you, but it's a bit of a relief. There's been a lingering question mark over things for awhile, what will happen next? The fact that options are being put in place, transitional pieces and training are happening is good. Naturally, some drop-off is inevitable, but no one wants to see a precipitous drop-off and such a thing could be a death-knell for the SA Spurs. It's good to actually see steps being taken, rather than mere lip service being paid.

That too :tu.

[#2!]

The best defense the Spurs have played all year. Especially in the fourth quarter. It wasn't the defense of previous championship years, but much better than their previous games

Unfortunately the Bobcats are the 2nd worst offensive team in the league so far. i did like that their FG% was low though.

[The Truth #6]

The team is getting better. They're trying harder for sure. Hopefully they're not running through all their energy too early in the season. We'll find out.

Gary Neal is a quiet wonder. He's basically been the difference in two victories already. His shooting form is absolutely perfect. Totally impressed by him. I can see the poor man's Mario Ellie comparison now, though it seemed laughable at first.

Blair will come back because he has good instincts. He may always struggle to score in the trees, but he can play way better than this. He did it last year. He needs to redefine himself as a rebounder fast and punish people that way.

Hill...I don't know about him. All his preparation and working out makes me think he's wound really tight, at least considering how he's playing. He's showing zero basketball instincts right now. But isn't this how he's always been? Pop's sales job last year to the media made people think he was doing better than he really was, at least in my opinion. He was doing better last year, but he never showed himself to be a true point guard or anything like that. Basically he was good at shooting the corner three last year. That's what I remember.

[ALVAREZ6]

I disagree strongly about Manu going back to the bench. IMO the bench minutes where Manu is the primary offensive option take more of a toll than starters minutes. When Manu is playing off the the bench he has to go all out for every second on the court, but when he is starting I think he can rest a little more even if he does play more minutes. I completely disagree with anyone saying that he needs to go back to the bench just so you can regulate minutes.

Good point :tu

[crc21209]

Hill has absolutely no confidence and no balls right now..he isn't even looking to attack..when he has the ball and Manu/Tony are on the floor, he's just dribbling the ball out, waiting to hand it off to them every time, unlike last year, where he finally learned to do his own thing..

When the lanes are opening up for him, he isn't taking them..

He can't make his corner 3 anymore..

What the fuck did he do during the off-season?..is ducks going to tell us that he's been on Twitter too much?..

Agreed. He seems very tentative right now...it MIGHT have to do with Neal and Anderson taking up shots now, but I'm not sure...

[daslicer]

To me he isn't a Mario Elie or a Steve Kerr but he reminds me of shooting guard that played for the knicks during the 90's. John Starks is the player that Neal resembles to me. He has the same type of quick release and is streaky like Starks. He also has the same type of tenacity on defense.

[GSH]

The Bobcats came after Hill hard tonight. That was obviously part of LB's plan. They trapped pretty aggressively when he was trying to bring the ball up the court. And to be fair, there were a few times when they did the same thing to Parker and he had some trouble with it, too. Hill was out there with bench players, and they didn't always move to help him like they should have.

The other thing that trap does is put the team further into the shot clock before they start setting up their offense. I remember in Tony's second or third year, an analyst did a good story on how much more successful the Spurs were when they started setting their offense earlier in the shot clock. Sometimes Tony was just bringing the ball up the court without a sense of urgency. But when he got pressured, and the shot clock got shortened, the Spurs offense really faltered.

Hill isn't the first young point guard to run into that kind of strategy. He's going to need to get better about beating the traps. But he's also going to need more help from the younger players who are on the court with him. When you beat the trap, you ought to be able to get a mismatch, and I don't remember that happening tonight. That's not the fault of the guy getting trapped.

Some of you may remember that when teams brought that pressure on Tony in his first couple of seasons, he used to cough the ball up a fair amount. I don't remember Hill turning the ball over as a result of the pressure tonight. Don't get me wrong, he has lots of room to improve. But it's easy to forget that Tony had some growing pains, too.

The thing that bothered me the most was that last 3-point attempt by Hill, with about 2 minutes left in the game. Maybe I'm wrong, but I thought the stroke looked odd. I wish I had it recorded, but it looked to me like he kicked his elbow out and around. The shot sort of looked like it, too. Maybe it was just the camera angle. But if he's developed a hitch, it would explain a lot.

[angelbelow]

Hill and Blair are playing absolutely terrible, good thing is its still very early in the season.

Heavily disagree about Blair.

The difference between the 2 is that Hill doesnt look to be trying and Blair looks to be trying too hard. Id take the latter everytime.

Blair is improving each and every game and the past few he hasnt hurt the spurs either, just hasnt helped them either. First few games of the season he was actually hurting our team.

In the past few games hes had a few nice moments but still not to his potential. Hes still averaging 7 rebounds in 23 minutes - a number that we would expect. While averaging 4.6 points is pretty low, I wouldnt expect anything too high if hes playing next to TD and with RJ, Manu and Parker.

[Phenomanul]

I'm tellin' yall that Neal is Fisher-Lite

[Ice009]

Good point :tu

Yep. I think starter minutes are better. I'm not saying to keep playing him this much, but I do think the minutes in the starting lineup don't take as much of a toll.

[analyzed]

Only difference is the latter was getting paid the max $ 17 M , while the former is still under his rookie contract. :lol big difference if you ask me


Hill is RJ of last year. Trade anyone?

[DespЏrado]

To me he isn't a Mario Elie or a Steve Kerr but he reminds me of shooting guard that played for the knicks during the 90's. John Starks is the player that Neal resembles to me. He has the same type of quick release and is streaky like Starks. He also has the same type of tenacity on defense.

Starks is the best comparison I've heard so far...

[elbamba]

Hill just looks like he has no confidence right now. He needs to quit shooting jumpers and just worry about taking the ball to the basket in the next game.

His dribbling has suffered as well. Last year he was the most improved player in my opinion. Now, he looks like he is trying to hard. He must let the game come to him and have fun.

[TheSullyMonster]

At this rate he should be rounding into form by game 70.....:lol

That's fine, so long as he's good to go for games 83 through 98(-110, as needed).:toast

[Obstructed_View]

At this point last year the Spurs were 3-3 and looked more like this season's Cowboys than this season's Spurs. There's a lot of time for guys like Hill, Splitter and Blair to get a rhythm and they should end up with some wiggle room in case someone gets injured due to the strong start and surprising depth.

[Leonard Curse]

Tiago needs to get in game shape and move into the starting role at Center.
first guy besides me to say this, we need to get that ugly learning period out of the way with tiago so we can move on!

[Cessation]

i disagree strongly about manu going back to the bench. Imo the bench minutes where manu is the primary offensive option take more of a toll than starters minutes. When manu is playing off the the bench he has to go all out for every second on the court, but when he is starting i think he can rest a little more even if he does play more minutes. I completely disagree with anyone saying that he needs to go back to the bench just so you can regulate minutes.

+1

[BillMc]

Richard Jefferson deserves better than a B-, maybe not by much, but a B at least. The biggest problem many people had with Richard last season was that he had zero impact on games in which he wasn't scoring. His effort was always better when he was getting touches/points.

Tonight he put up season highs for rebounding and assists despite having his worst shooting night of the season. That's effort.

This x1000.

It was so good to see RJ contribute when his shot wasn't falling. Last year, when he didn't score he didn't do anything. Though this was a "bad" game for him in terms of points, it was very promising in terms of RJ as a more complete player and a more engaged player.

[Rick Von Braun]

I disagree strongly about Manu going back to the bench. IMO the bench minutes where Manu is the primary offensive option take more of a toll than starters minutes. When Manu is playing off the the bench he has to go all out for every second on the court, but when he is starting I think he can rest a little more even if he does play more minutes. I completely disagree with anyone saying that he needs to go back to the bench just so you can regulate minutes.

I have been saying this for 5 years since Manu was moved to the bench in favor of the psychologically fragile Hedo. For the same amount of minutes played, it takes a much bigger toll on Manu's body to play off the bench.

I'll use a very simple example (this is just a simple example to show the point, I am not arguing for any specific pattern). For the first half of a basketball game (24 minutes), let's use the following two rotation patterns (showing just playing time) that use the same number of minutes total (16 minutes in this example).

Starter:
1st Q: 12:00 - 04:00
2nd Q: 08:00 - 00:00

This gives you a pattern of 8 minutes playing time, 8 minutes of rest, 8 minutes of playing time for a total of 16 minutes playing time.

Bench:
1st Q: 06:00 - 00:00
2nd Q: 12:00 - 10:00
2nd Q: 08:00 - 00:00

This gives you a pattern of 8 minutes playing time (6 in the 1st Q + 2 at the beginning of the 2nd Q), 2 minutes of rest (2nd Q 10:00 to 08:00), 8 minutes of playing time for a total of 16 minutes playing time.

Note that I have ignored the break between quarters and teams' timeouts for the sake of simplicity in the explanation.

Given the two usage patterns above, which of the two you believe is better to maximize rest?

If you are not convinced, let me give you a specific situation to further clarify the point. If you are asked to run the longest distance you can, and you have to following two options:
a) 8 minutes running, 8 minutes resting, 8 minutes running
b) 8 minutes running, 2 minutes resting, 8 minutes running

For a total of 16 minutes running time. Do you think you can run a longer distance using (a) or (b) pattern? Which one you would pick?

From the pure physical/endurance point of view, the critical point here is that by coming off the bench you lose the initial minutes of the 1st Q that you are not playing, BUT you are not resting either. Players have at least 24 hrs of resting before the game (at least in a back-to-back, they usually have 48, 72 or 96 hours), so resting 24 hrs or 24 hrs + 6 minutes makes no difference for them. However, the resting time in between playing periods during the game is critical.

One could also argue that having to lead the offense with the 2nd group and being the primary focus of the defense during that time (which it is important but a bit more difficult to measure quantitatively), it also takes a larger toll on the body, since you have to constantly create for others and you have less quality players to play with you. This may be somehow compensated by the less quality of opposing players, but the rotation patterns of different teams usually do not align perfectly except under very specific circumstances for certain players (like a defensive specialist just to guard a specific player). This is usually clearly seen when you calculate adjusted +/- stats, but this is not the point.

If the ultimate goal is to maximize rest, then it is absolutely clear that for the same amount of minutes played, it takes a much bigger toll on Manu's body to play off the bench.

[alchemist]

Only caught the 2nd half, but Hill looked atrocious trying to run the offense. :depressed
when hasn't this been the case?

[Brazil]

I would give RJ a B+. We all knew that his stellar shooting wouldn't last forever, I was expecting him to step up in the rebounding area, he did just that last night with some big contested rebounds !

Dice deserves a lot of applause so far, he is playing above my expectations especially considering this is the beginning of the season.

[smeagol]

spurs want manu to play more minutes this year
I think it is foolish we shall see

suns announcers said so when spurs played suns

another 11 three point attempts for manu the gunner

Anything else to criticize about Manu, you dork?

[DBMethos]

Yeah, Dice is really in midseason form already.

[smeagol]

I have been saying this for 5 years since Manu was moved to the bench in favor of the psychologically fragile Hedo. For the same amount of minutes played, it takes a much bigger toll on Manu's body to play off the bench.

I'll use a very simple example (this is just a simple example to show the point, I am not arguing for any specific pattern). For the first half of a basketball game (24 minutes), let's use the following two rotation patterns (showing just playing time) that use the same number of minutes total (16 minutes in this example).

Starter:
1st Q: 12:00 - 04:00
2nd Q: 08:00 - 00:00

This gives you a pattern of 8 minutes playing time, 8 minutes of rest, 8 minutes of playing time for a total of 16 minutes playing time.

Bench:
1st Q: 06:00 - 00:00
2nd Q: 12:00 - 10:00
2nd Q: 08:00 - 00:00

This gives you a pattern of 8 minutes playing time (6 in the 1st Q + 2 at the beginning of the 2nd Q), 2 minutes of rest (2nd Q 10:00 to 08:00), 8 minutes of playing time for a total of 16 minutes playing time.

Note that I have ignored the break between quarters and teams' timeouts for the sake of simplicity in the explanation.

Given the two usage patterns above, which of the two you believe is better to maximize rest?

If you are not convinced, let me give you a specific situation to further clarify the point. If you are asked to run the longest distance you can, and you have to following two options:
a) 8 minutes running, 8 minutes resting, 8 minutes running
b) 8 minutes running, 2 minutes resting, 8 minutes running

For a total of 16 minutes running time. Do you think you can run a longer distance using (a) or (b) pattern? Which one you would pick?

From the pure physical/endurance point of view, the critical point here is that by coming off the bench you lose the initial minutes of the 1st Q that you are not playing, BUT you are not resting either. Players have at least 24 hrs of resting before the game (at least in a back-to-back, they usually have 48, 72 or 96 hours), so resting 24 hrs or 24 hrs + 6 minutes makes no difference for them. However, the resting time in between playing periods during the game is critical.

One could also argue that having to lead the offense with the 2nd group and being the primary focus of the defense during that time (which it is important but a bit more difficult to measure quantitatively), it also takes a larger toll on the body, since you have to constantly create for others and you have less quality players to play with you. This may be somehow compensated by the less quality of opposing players, but the rotation patterns of different teams usually do not align perfectly except under very specific circumstances for certain players (like a defensive specialist just to guard a specific player). This is usually clearly seen when you calculate adjusted +/- stats, but this is not the point.

If the ultimate goal is to maximize rest, then it is absolutely clear that for the same amount of minutes played, it takes a much bigger toll on Manu's body to play off the bench.

RVB sighting!

[smeagol]

...

[Brazil]

...

well thats an interesting take

[rjv]

very impressed with RJ. this is the sort of game he would have dissapeared in last year as he would have sulked and cowered due to his lack of offense. instead, he stayed aggressive and contributed in other ways. he may have finally gotten in as the light bulb appears to have turned on.

[Manufan909]

Anyone have video of Splitter's two dunks? I missed both.

[Spurs Brazil]

I hope Hill can get out of his slump soon. Last year he also didn't start very well

[wontstartdumbthreads]

Starks is the best comparison I've heard so far...

I don't know. Starks was verrrrrry streaky. If he wasn't on, he'd go O-fer. He also had the ability to take it to the hole if the shot wasn't on and finish in traffic. If his shot was on, it made him that much tougher to cover.

I hope that when Neal is off, he's still shooting 30% from behind the arc. But I don't see him as being able to drive like Starks.

[Doe]

I hope Hill can get out of his slump soon. Last year he also didn't start very well

Good point, last season at the beginning of the year he looked like he had regressed from his rookie campaign after we'd heard about all the hard work he put in over the summer. I'm optimistic that Hill will get out of this slump and show us an improved player over last year.