So nobody is mentioning the missile launch off the California coast?

[CosmicCowboy]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/09/national/main7036716.shtml

My guess it was the Chinese not so subtly telling us to stay the fuck out of the China Sea and their little scrap with Japan.

[ChumpDumper]

My guess it was a US missile.

[Winehole23]

Another failed interception test?

[TeyshaBlue]

Sorry.

*Puts away joystick*

Stupid WOPR.:depressed

[TheManFromAcme]

Show of force maybe? (heard on a video I saw 15 minutes ago)

It's definitely military unless my hippy buddies on Catalina Island have some damn good bottle-rockets. :lol

[CosmicCowboy]

My guess it was a US missile.

Military keeps saying it wasn't them.

[RandomGuy]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/09/national/main7036716.shtml

My guess it was the Chinese not so subtly telling us to stay the fuck out of the China Sea and their little scrap with Japan.

My guess is that you didn't read this part of that article:


such tests were carried out in the Atlantic [by the US Navy] to demonstrate America's power to the Soviets

1) Such a test would fit the pattern of the US Navy.
2) Such a launch near the shores of the US would be HIGHLY provocative. This is directly counter to established Chinese MO.
3) For this to be the case, either the Chinese, who highly value stability, would have to changed MO, or some rogue element within the Chinese military decided to make a statement, neither of which seems likely to me.

I view your guess as much less likely that Chump's, and concur with his.

[ChumpDumper]

Military keeps saying it wasn't them.:lol

Never took you for the naive type.

[RandomGuy]

Military keeps saying it wasn't them.

Our military has, in the past, said a lot of things that end up not being true.

While I am not paranoid about that, they certainly would not want to publicly admit to something like this.

Only a handful of nations on the planet are technologically capable of this, so the list of suspects is short, and the Navy would have every motivation not to owe up to this.

[boutons_deux]

If the US dicks around and provoked in other countries' waters, why would USA be bothered if other countries dicked around in US' waters?

Is US' privilege "exceptional", a one-way-street?

btw, anybody see Norway and Sweden claiming the US has been spying in their countries?

[CosmicCowboy]

:lol

Never took you for the naive type.

It's a big ocean and we have very nice submarines. If they wanted to do a secret test they sure as fuck wouldn't do it 30 miles from a major city in broad daylight. Just sayin.

BTW, the Chinese have bought all the advanced sub technology from the Soviets. You really think they couldn't have a quiet nuke missile sub sitting off the coast of California?

[ChumpDumper]

It's a big ocean and we have very nice submarines. If they wanted to do a secret test they sure as fuck wouldn't do it 30 miles from a major city in broad daylight. Just sayin.Unless they wanted to. Just sayin.


BTW, the Chinese have bought all the advanced sub technology from the Soviets. You really think they couldn't have a quiet nuke missile sub sitting off the coast of California?I'm sure they do, but actually firing a missile defeats the purpose of being quiet.

[CosmicCowboy]

Unless they wanted to. Just sayin.

I'm sure they do, but actually firing a missile defeats the purpose of being quiet.

Are you kidding? Think about it. Sneaking in and getting a (intentionally harmless) shot off undetected?

Thats a HUGE "Fuck You!...you better not mess with us..."

[MannyIsGod]

Not a chance in hell its the Chinese for so many reasons but the number one being they lack the capability to do so.

[ChumpDumper]

Are you kidding? Think about it. Sneaking in and getting a (intentionally harmless) shot off undetected?

Thats a HUGE "Fuck You!...you better not mess with us..."Given the history of tensions between China and the US and the actions resulting from them, China has no real reason to do such a thing to the US over a relatively minor territorial dispute with Japan.

Why specifically would China have to tell us to not mess with them now?

[Winehole23]

Are you kidding? Think about it. Sneaking in and getting a (intentionally harmless) shot off undetected?

Thats a HUGE "Fuck You!...you better not mess with us..."It's more like an act of war.

Or would be, if things happened as you describe them.

[MannyIsGod]

For a minute lets assume the Chinese could somehow drop the 24 survalience that is on their missile submarines. Lets also assume that on the trip across the Pacific their very noisy subs weren't picked up by SOSUS or any other US means. Lets also assume they have the range to operate this far out. Lets also assume that the Chinese would risk a strategic deterant in such a manner.

If we go ahead and just assume all of the above then we still have to acknowledge that in the event of a missile launch right off the coast of LA you have a flight time of MAYBE 30 seconds before its going to detonate over LA. You have an immediate detection of said missile by NORAD and a very small time window by which they have to make quick fire decisions on the nature of the missile and how to respond.

You're going to risk nuclear war to flip off the United States? Yeah, I don't think so.

[clambake]

cc, i would have guessed you'd welcome a california strike.

[ChumpDumper]

cc, i would have guessed you'd welcome a california strike.He almost seems to be hoping to be able to put his doomsday plan into motion. Would seem like a bit of a waste if he never got to use it.

[MannyIsGod]

There's a segment of our population that views the world as happening as very chaotic place where its still the wild west only now people are slinging around nukes instead of six shooters.

Thats pretty far from the case and the world is actually a fairly calculated environment. No nation is going to sling around the threat of nuclear war very lightly.

[CosmicCowboy]

Given the history of tensions between China and the US and the actions resulting from them, China has no real reason to do such a thing to the US over a relatively minor territorial dispute with Japan.

Why specifically would China have to tell us to not mess with them now?

Does QEII ring a bell?

Look, I'm not saying it was the Chinese but if it wasn't us that is a rational premise.

[Winehole23]

He almost seems to be hoping to be able to put his doomsday plan into motion. Would seem like a bit of a waste if he never got to use it.It can still be deployed as a crackpot theory:

China fired a missile off the coast of California and Obama just sat there doing nothing.

[TeyshaBlue]

It can still be deployed as a crackpot theory:

China fired a missile off the coast of California and Obama just sat there doing nothing.

You got there before Yoni could post that. Dammit!

[MannyIsGod]

Does QEII ring a bell?

Look, I'm not saying it was the Chinese but if it wasn't us that is a rational premise.

Its really not. The only rational premise is that it was us. Any ballistic missile launch off the coast of the US is liable to trigger a direct response. At the very least, you'd have several facets of the US military on high alert and you absolutely cannot hide that shit.

Barring that, the only plausible scenario is a US launch.

[clambake]

hell, not fair! at least bush got a phone call before the attack!

[ChumpDumper]

Does QEII ring a bell?Nuclear war with the US would be worse than any worst case scenario for China resulting from QEII.


Look, I'm not saying it was the Chinese but if it wasn't us that is a rational premise.
My guess it was the Chinese not so subtly telling us to stay the fuck out of the China Sea and their little scrap with Japan.Looks to me like you were saying it was the Chinese.

Even when the Chinese and Americans were actively killing each other, there was not even an implied Chinese threat to the US mainland.

[MannyIsGod]

It can still be deployed as a crackpot theory:

China fired a missile off the coast of California and Obama just sat there doing nothing.

Exactly. Any missile fired that close to the US coastline would illicit an enormous response even if we didn't fire a single missile.

For once, much of the line of succession wouldn't just be sitting in DC and the President himself would not be just trotting around.

[CosmicCowboy]

cc, i would have guessed you'd welcome a california strike.



He almost seems to be hoping to be able to put his doomsday plan into motion. Would seem like a bit of a waste if he never got to use it.

Thats insulting. MY doomsday plan? Inferring I advocate MAD?

What have I EVER said that would lead you guys to believe that?

[MannyIsGod]

They're fucking with you dude. I'm pretty sure everyone here knows you don't want California nuked.

Just Berkley.

[RandomGuy]

For a minute lets assume the Chinese could somehow drop the 24 survalience that is on their missile submarines. Lets also assume that on the trip across the Pacific their very noisy subs weren't picked up by SOSUS or any other US means. Lets also assume they have the range to operate this far out. Lets also assume that the Chinese would risk a strategic deterant in such a manner.

If we go ahead and just assume all of the above then we still have to acknowledge that in the event of a missile launch right off the coast of LA you have a flight time of MAYBE 30 seconds before its going to detonate over LA. You have an immediate detection of said missile by NORAD and a very small time window by which they have to make quick fire decisions on the nature of the missile and how to respond.

You're going to risk nuclear war to flip off the United States? Yeah, I don't think so.

Bingo.

Sorry CC, odds are against your theory for a number of reasons, not the least of which is the acute awareness of nuclear capabilities on the part of the respective navies.

You just don't do that shit.

If it were Chinese, it would have been MUCH more likely that they would have done so within their territorial waters.

[rjv]

Military keeps saying it wasn't them.

well, hey, that's good enough for me!!!

[ChumpDumper]

Thats insulting. MY doomsday plan? Inferring I advocate MAD?

What have I EVER said that would lead you guys to believe that?More like your "reaction to doomsday" plan. I get the impression it was more a plan to deal with some kind of domestic societal breakdown, but total war with China would be as good a reason as any to hit the bunker.

[Winehole23]

@rjv:

Very much like WC taking the word of Obama's chief counsel for the BP spill commission, as gospel truth.

(The US Government is the primo journalistic source for US journalism.)

[clambake]

besides, wc said he knows where all the nukes are.

[Winehole23]

Taking the US military at it's word that it was not involved, CC infers the provocation of the Chinese.

(The inaction of Obama in the face of an obviously warlike manifestation was an inference I smuggled in)

[Spurminator]

I think it was probably the U.S. military but I'm not sure what's the point of launching it in plain sight then denying it.

If it's to show off new capabilities, why deny it? Just say you were testing new technology and can't comment on the specifics.

And if the point wasn't to show anything off, why do it so close to the California coast?

Smarter men than I, I'm sure, have this all figured out...

[Winehole23]

I think it was probably the U.S. military but I'm not sure what's the point of launching it in plain sight then denying it. To prevent the accidental disclosure of sensitive details?

[Winehole23]

It could have been a test of our own detection/defense capabilities.

[jack sommerset]

The commander in chief will tell us what happened when he is back from vacation.

[Winehole23]

http://www.collider.com/uploads/imageGallery/Mr_Magoo_DVD/mr._magoo__2_.jpg


Vacation?

[Sportcamper]

We used to have frequent errant missiles in So Cal in the 60’s & 70’s…The culprit was generally Rocketdyne Testing…

The U.S. military always denies U.S. Boomers off the coast…But occasionally they surface & accidentally get tangled up with barge cables & pull the barges & crew underwater for 5 miles or so…Bummer…

Interesting that the news did not show photos of the vapor trails left by the many U.S. fighter jets that later traveled the path of the missile…

I don’t think China would be upset about President Obama in India…You know what they say - go where the jobs are...

[RandomGuy]

besides, wc said he knows where all the nukes are.

Speaking of "knowing where the nukes are"
China has 10, count 'em, 10 nuclear subs. The rest are deisel/electric.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/navy.htm

That makes the task of tracking them VERY easy.

http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/nukes/images/chinasubsound.jpg
Not really hard to pick up, even if they slip through.
http://www.fas.org/blog/ssp/2009/11/subnoise.php

There is also the small matter of the fact that China's Navy has deployed outside of its territorial waters exactly ONCE in 400 years. (thank Somali pirates for that)

(edit)
The more one reads about Chinese submarine capability, the less and less likely it seems that the Chinese are responsible. The Chinese Navy just doesn't have the general capability to operate a sub that far from its home bases. They generally only get two patrol cruises per year, TOPS, among other things.

[CosmicCowboy]

But they DO have state of the art diesel/electrics that are VERY quiet on battery and capable of launching missiles.

I'm still not saying it was the Chinese but they ARE working dilligently on improving their capability and they have the money to blow on it.

Feel free to post your own speculations if it wasn't the US.

[MannyIsGod]

But they DO have state of the art diesel/electrics that are VERY quiet on battery and capable of launching missiles.

I'm still not saying it was the Chinese but they ARE working dilligently on improving their capability and they have the money to blow on it.

Feel free to post your own speculations if it wasn't the US.

Yeah, even old subs that run on batteries are super quiet. Big problem, however. They have to move extremely slowly and have incredibly short ranges. There is not a single diesel electric ballistic missile submarine in the world.

[Winehole23]

We used to have frequent errant missiles in So Cal in the 60’s & 70’s…The culprit was generally Rocketdyne Testing…Interesting. Found zero hits for rocket accidents, but plenty of other issues around Rocketdyne.

The U.S. military always denies U.S. Boomers off the coast…But occasionally they surface & accidentally get tangled up with barge cables & pull the barges & crew underwater for 5 miles or so…BummerLink?

[MannyIsGod]

Speaking of "knowing where the nukes are"
China has 10, count 'em, 10 nuclear subs. The rest are deisel/electric.
http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/world/china/navy.htm

That makes the task of tracking them VERY easy.

http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/nukes/images/chinasubsound.jpg
Not really hard to pick up, even if they slip through.
http://www.fas.org/blog/ssp/2009/11/subnoise.php

There is also the small matter of the fact that China's Navy has deployed outside of its territorial waters exactly ONCE in 400 years. (thank Somali pirates for that)

(edit)
The more one reads about Chinese submarine capability, the less and less likely it seems that the Chinese are responsible. The Chinese Navy just doesn't have the general capability to operate a sub that far from its home bases. They generally only get two patrol cruises per year, TOPS, among other things.

The 2 Chinese missile subs are noisy as shit. We know exactly where they are at all times. (usually in port)

I don't think people understand the level of naval superiority the US holds over the rest of the world.

[MannyIsGod]

Interesting. Found zero hits for rocket accidents, but plenty of other issues around Rocketdyne.
Link?

Denying the location surprises me zero since the whole purpose for boomers is their need to operate in secrecy. I dunno about the barges being dragged though.

[RandomGuy]

But they DO have state of the art diesel/electrics that are VERY quiet on battery and capable of launching missiles.

I'm still not saying it was the Chinese but they ARE working dilligently on improving their capability and they have the money to blow on it.

Feel free to post your own speculations if it wasn't the US.

Deisel/electrics are quiet when they are running on battery.

They are also incapable of crossing the 3,000 mile wide Pacific Ocean without recharging.

The only other nation technically capable of this would be Russia. That is a bit more likely than China, but that isn't saying much.

It was the US Navy, I am mildly sure of it. But then, I have only access to fairly indirect open-source data, so "mildly sure" is as good as it gets.

[MannyIsGod]

Forget capability. Reaction tells you it was the US. Either that or we should be extremely worried with our defenses.

[clambake]

why would any country give us reason to unite?

[Yonivore]

Forget capability. Reaction tells you it was the US. Either that or we should be extremely worried with our defenses.
At the moment, I'm extremely worried. I don't recall the military ever responding this way.

[Sportcamper]

Whinehole-Rocketdyne of Canoga Park/ Chatsworth CA had plenty of misguided missiles that fell safely in the Pacific Ocean…Growing up in Canoga Park we saw them all the time…One time however a missile did fly in the flight path of the jets landing at LAX…

Rocketdyne of Canoga Park/ Chatsworth CA is also responsible for the worst atomic pollution in the U.S…I don’t want to scare you guys all at once with this information…An hour ago you never even heard of Rocketdyne…:lol

You can do your own research on the nuclear sub that dragged down a barge on its way to Catalina to transport rocks for home building in LA… The boat was dragged backward the Crew was dragged below & somebody drowned….Those Subs are so powerful that it traveled for miles before the Captain realized that something was slowing it down…(I think the Sub was called Houston)...

[ChumpDumper]

At the moment, I'm extremely worried. I don't recall the military ever responding this way.When is the last time something like this happened?

What did they do then?

[clambake]

could have been from JPL. those companies have worked projects together.

[Yonivore]

Whinehole-Rocketdyne of Canoga Park/ Chatsworth CA had plenty of misguided missiles that fell safely in the Pacific Ocean…Growing up in Canoga Park we saw them all the time…One time however a missile did fly in the flight path of the jets landing at LAX…

Rocketdyne of Canoga Park/ Chatsworth CA is also responsible for the worst atomic pollution in the U.S…I don’t want to scare you guys all at once with this information…An hour ago you never even heard of Rocketdyne…:lol

You can do your own research on the nuclear sub that dragged down a barge on its way to Catalina to transport rocks for home building in LA… The boat was dragged backward the Crew was dragged below & somebody drowned….Those Subs are so powerful that it traveled for miles before the Captain realized that something was slowing it down…(I think the Sub was called Houston)...
If that's the case, it'd be nice if someone from Rocketdyne would confirm it.

[RandomGuy]

At the moment, I'm extremely worried. I don't recall the military ever responding this way.

That is because this is probably the first such incident you have heard about.

If you read the article in the OP, it seemed to happen frequently enough for the guy they asked to remember it.

Since it was simply routine muscle-flexing, it seems to be a non-issue.

[Yonivore]

That is because this is probably the first such incident you have heard about.

If you read the article in the OP, it seemed to happen frequently enough for the guy they asked to remember it.

Since it was simply routine muscle-flexing, it seems to be a non-issue.
Maybe no so routine?

China to Tighten Control on Inflows of Overseas Funds (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-09/china-to-tighten-control-on-capital-inflows-with-audits-position-limits.html)

Volcker Says No Quick Way To Cut US Unemployment (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/08/ap/business/main7035938.shtml)


On Tuesday, a Chinese official speaking before Volcker at the financial forum repeated Beijing's criticism of the move.

"If the United States can increase the volume of dollars and it can transmit inflation to other countries to lessen the pressure of debt, then it will bring about a catastrophic influence on the world," said Cheng Siwei, a deputy chairman of China's legislature.
I think China is pissed over our economic policy. Could have been, "Hey, America, look out the left side of your country. Now, quit fucking with the global economy."

Why didn't we scramble jets? Why has there been no speculation over where the missile went?

[RandomGuy]

Maybe no so routine?

China to Tighten Control on Inflows of Overseas Funds (http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-11-09/china-to-tighten-control-on-capital-inflows-with-audits-position-limits.html)

Volcker Says No Quick Way To Cut US Unemployment (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/08/ap/business/main7035938.shtml)


I think China is pissed over our economic policy. Could have been, "Hey, America, look out the left side of your country. Now, quit fucking with the global economy."

Why didn't we scramble jets? Why has there been no speculation over where the missile went?

You know, if you weren't such a hack, I might think your concerns were genuine.

As it is, I get the impression that you sense that there is some spin you can put on this to somehow embarass Democrats, or Obama in particular.

If the US Navy did it,then why would we scramble jets after our own missile?

You sound nothing so much as the Twoofers who are "just asking questions" with tenuous connections to recent news.

[Yonivore]

You know, if you weren't such a hack, I might think your concerns were genuine.

As it is, I get the impression that you sense that there is some spin you can put on this to somehow embarass Democrats, or Obama in particular.

If the US Navy did it,then why would we scramble jets after our own missile?

You sound nothing so much as the Twoofers who are "just asking questions" with tenuous connections to recent news.
If the Navy did it, the military would have had a story...something other than, "beats us?"

[MannyIsGod]

Its no wonder people like Yoni led us into a pointless war.

[boutons_deux]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef013488d7a0e4970c-pi

“Mystery missile” was probably an aircraft, government says


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/11/mystery-missile-was-probably-an-aircraft-government-says.html

[ElNono]

Los Angeles, California (CNN) -- The Pentagon is unable to explain images of what witnesses took to be a high-altitude rocket launched off the coast of southern California at sunset Monday, officials said.

But John Pike, a defense expert who is director of GlobalSecurity.org, said he believes he has solved the mystery.

"It's clearly an airplane contrail," Pike said Tuesday afternoon. "It's an optical illusion that looks like it's going up, whereas in reality it's going towards the camera. The tip of the contrail is moving far too slowly to be a rocket. When it's illuminated by the sunset, you can see hundreds of miles of it ... all the way to the horizon.

"Why the government is so badly organized that they can't get somebody out there to explain it and make this story go away ... I think that's the real story," Pike added. "I mean, it's insane that with all the money we are spending, all these technically competent people, that they can't get somebody out there to explain what is incredibly obvious."

A U.S. Northern Command official who didn't want to be identified said the contrail could very well be from an airplane. An "illusion" effect made the contrail appear as if it's rising straight up, but it's actually level, the official said. The event is similar to another sighting around New Year's Eve in which observers believed they witnessed a missile, he said.

http://i.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2010/US/11/09/california.contrails/t1larg.missile.kcbs.jpg

link (http://edition.cnn.com/2010/US/11/09/california.contrails/?hpt=C1)

[Yonivore]

If it were traveling toward the camera wouldn't it have eventually passed overhead?

Just sayin'

And, in one of the video, it clearly looks like fire coming from the engine.

Sorry, I'm not convinced.

Pentagon Can't Explain "Missile" off California (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/09/national/main7037857.shtml?tag=topnews)


CBS station KFMB showed video of the apparent missile to former U.S. Ambassador to NATO Robert Ellsworth, who is also a former Deputy Secretary of Defense, to get his thoughts.

"It's spectacular… It takes people's breath away," said Ellsworth, calling the projectile, "a big missile".
Clearly, however, the "jet contrail" narrative is getting traction.

[Yonivore]

Should be pretty easy to verify with LAX Air Traffic Control whether or not an aircraft was occupying that airspace at that time. No?

[Pistons < Spurs]

Should be pretty easy to verify with LAX Air Traffic Control whether or not an aircraft was occupying that airspace at that time. No?

Wouldn't it be even easier to know if it was in fact a missile? I would think (hope) that a missile going off would light up all sorts of screens in numerous defense and military installations across the country. Wouldn't commercial and public instrumentation also be able to pick up a missile firing? Don't know.

I don't think the govt. is always forthcoming and honest with the people, but in this case I'm going with the airplane story rather than a launch either on purpose or accidentally.

[Yonivore]

Wouldn't it be even easier to know if it was in fact a missile? I would think (hope) that a missile going off would light up all sorts of screens in numerous defense and military installations across the country. Wouldn't commercial and public instrumentation also be able to pick up a missile firing? Don't know.

I don't think the govt. is always forthcoming and honest with the people, but in this case I'm going with the airplane story rather than a launch either on purpose or accidentally.
I have no idea.

All the intelligence blogs I'm reading say they "hope" it's innocuous but, the event doesn't neatly fit into any of the narratives being advanced so far.

[ChumpDumper]

Popdamn, yoni is a conspiracy theorist!

I'm going with a plane.

[Winehole23]

Rocketdyne of Canoga Park/ Chatsworth CA is also responsible for the worst atomic pollution in the U.S…I don’t want to scare you guys all at once with this information…An hour ago you never even heard of Rocketdyne…:lolScared of Rocketdyne? In Austin, TX?

Should I be? :lol

Nevertheless, there's nothing funny at all about ignorance. Thanks, Sportcamper, for expanding on a topic I know basically zilch about.

You can do your own research on the nuclear sub that dragged down a barge on its way to Catalina to transport rocks for home building in LA… The boat was dragged backward the Crew was dragged below & somebody drowned….Those Subs are so powerful that it traveled for miles before the Captain realized that something was slowing it down…(I think the Sub was called Houston)...Again, thanks for the relevant details.

[Winehole23]

All the intelligence blogs I'm reading say they "hope" it's innocuous but, the event doesn't neatly fit into any of the narratives being advanced so far.Do you mind naming them?

[Winehole23]

Since you're kinda talking about what
<all the intelligence blogs you're reading>
say, it'd be a courtesy to us and to them to provide the sources, so we can tell your bs from theirs.



Thanks.

[MannyIsGod]

:lmao @ intelligence blogs.

Over at KGB.blogspot.com

Seriously these fuckers like Yoni are afraid of their own shadow. He's the type of person (and I"m not even kidding here) that was all over the Bush admin. No surprise we went to war at all.

In fact I bet he and the Bush admin used the same Intelligence blogs for their info.

[Winehole23]

(Zero, one or two sites. Three at the outside.)

[Wild Cobra]

besides, wc said he knows where all the nukes are.
Liar.

Show me where I said that.

Past knowledge does not equal present knowledge of changing locations.

[Yonivore]

Do you mind naming them?
When I quote 'em, I'll name and link 'em.

[Wild Cobra]

@rjv:

Very much like WC taking the word of Obama's chief counsel for the BP spill commission, as gospel truth.

(The US Government is the primo journalistic source for US journalism.)
Any thoughts I have are just guesses. I only heard a short fact that there was a missile yesterday. Never followed up since, and my last visit here was before this thread started.

I think it's safe to say that it came from a Submarine or destroyer. Of what flag? No telling, but it probably was ours. I'll bet from the launch location, the odds of catching a glimpse of it were small. Chance video.

[Yonivore]

:lmao @ intelligence blogs.

Over at KGB.blogspot.com

Seriously these fuckers like Yoni are afraid of their own shadow. He's the type of person (and I"m not even kidding here) that was all over the Bush admin. No surprise we went to war at all.

In fact I bet he and the Bush admin used the same Intelligence blogs for their info.
You believe that, I'm sure.

[Wild Cobra]

Assuming it was ours...


I think it was probably the U.S. military but I'm not sure what's the point of launching it in plain sight then denying it.

This administration doesn't know how to speak the truth.

If it's to show off new capabilities, why deny it? Just say you were testing new technology and can't comment on the specifics.

They cannot think fast on their feet. probably caught off guard with being caught.


And if the point wasn't to show anything off, why do it so close to the California coast?

Maybe they were showing off range by where it landed. We don't have that data though.

[Wild Cobra]

(edit)
The more one reads about Chinese submarine capability, the less and less likely it seems that the Chinese are responsible. The Chinese Navy just doesn't have the general capability to operate a sub that far from its home bases. They generally only get two patrol cruises per year, TOPS, among other things.
I wouldn't take such thoughts as fact. just because we don't know doesn't mean they don't have some modern sub now. Our intelligence is lacking since president Clinton's slashing of the CIA, and they keep secrets well. Using a former ambassador for CIA information in Nigeria should be evidence of that. Not only that, how many trillions have we lined their pockets with to research with stolen plans of ours.

I will not say they have good subs, but only a fool would think that it's not possible.

[Wild Cobra]

Denying the location surprises me zero since the whole purpose for boomers is their need to operate in secrecy. I dunno about the barges being dragged though.
They don't call him NoBama for no good reason now...

[Wild Cobra]

http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/.a/6a00d8341c630a53ef013488d7a0e4970c-pi

“Mystery missile” was probably an aircraft, government says


http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/lanow/2010/11/mystery-missile-was-probably-an-aircraft-government-says.html
LOL...

If that video matches the incident...

It was a missile or rocket. That was no plane. If something else, it was Superman,...

Do they really think we are all that dumb?

Go Nobama...

Fucking laughing-stalk.

If that was a jet plane, it had something seriously wrong with it's engines.

[Wild Cobra]

If it were traveling toward the camera wouldn't it have eventually passed overhead?

Just sayin'

And, in one of the video, it clearly looks like fire coming from the engine.

Sorry, I'm not convinced.

Pentagon Can't Explain "Missile" off California (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/11/09/national/main7037857.shtml?tag=topnews)


Clearly, however, the "jet contrail" narrative is getting traction.

The contrail is too big for a passenger jet liner.

[Wild Cobra]

Now that I've been though this thread, can I say it's a waste of time?

Just another day.

[Yonivore]

The contrail is too big for a passenger jet liner.
I don't buy it, either but, there are a whole bunch of people out there trying to make that narrative fit.

Jet contrails from some angles look like missile trails (http://uncinus.wordpress.com/2010/11/09/4/#more-4)

I remain unconvinced.

[Wild Cobra]

I don't buy it, either but, there are a whole bunch of people out there trying to make that narrative fit.

Jet contrails from some angles look like missile trails (http://uncinus.wordpress.com/2010/11/09/4/#more-4)

I remain unconvinced.

From one angle, and wind variations, the look is possible. However, I have never seen a jet contrail that big.

Have you?

Anyone...

Ever see a jet contrail that full and wide? They get very thin as they expand.

[Yonivore]

From one angle, and wind variations, the look is possible. However, I have never seen a jet contrail that big.

Have you?

Anyone...

Ever see a jet contrail that full and wide? They get very thin as they expand.
No, but I don't live on the West Coast where the horizon is further out than if you were viewing it over land.

[RandomGuy]

All the intelligence blogs I'm reading say...


Do you mind naming them?


When I quote 'em, I'll name and link 'em.

Given your track record of paucity when it comes to intellectual honesty, we can only assume that, since you refuse to name the "intelligence blogs", they are not, in fact "intelligence blogs".

I readily posted a couple of links to things, when I drew information from them.

It takes less than 4 seconds to highlight a URL, then click copy, and paste it into a quick post.

I think you are either being lazy or dishonest, unless you can provide me with some principled reason for NOT giving the information, so we can judge for ourselves.

Which is it?

[RandomGuy]

I don't buy it, either but, there are a whole bunch of people out there trying to make that narrative fit.

Jet contrails from some angles look like missile trails (http://uncinus.wordpress.com/2010/11/09/4/#more-4)

I remain unconvinced.

Interesting.

The military's more explicit denials that I heard seem to be a bit more than the "we know but aren't going to tell you variety" than they seemed yesterday.

The media story has caused a bit greater interest and more people are poking around asking different military sources, and all have come up with nada in terms of even off-the-record admissions.

Given that missle launches would require no few number of people to know about them, the fact that those inquiries have come up empty leads me to lend a bit more credence to the "jet contrail" explanation, over the "US Navy did it".

Both are still far more probable than a Chinese/Russian launch.

Again, seems to be something of a non-issue to me. I would be highly concerned if it were Chinese/Russian, but there is no indication whatsoever that that was the case.

[Oh, Gee!!]

sounds like the chinese sneaked onto our country, installed a missle launch site, and launched a missle away from the US to prove their domination.

[clambake]

don't go outside yoni.....there might be plane! lol

[clambake]

hey yoni, theres a job opening on fantasy island!

are you short?

[Spurminator]

Yeah it makes sense for it to be a plane. The jet stream appears to expand as it gets closer to the horizon. Just like a sunset.

[MannyIsGod]

From one angle, and wind variations, the look is possible. However, I have never seen a jet contrail that big.

Have you?

Anyone...

Ever see a jet contrail that full and wide? They get very thin as they expand.

High clouds, like contrails, look thicker at sunset due to the angle of the sunlight hitting them and refraction by the atmosphere. This is highly common and makes for better sunsets. On many colder and clear days in South Texas and New Mexico the western sky will get cloudy at sunset (or basically late in the day) because of this yet you'll have a full sky of stars after sunset.

[Sportcamper]

I give you the name of the submarine, the type of accident & STILL YOU PEOPLE say it did not happen… I say the jet stream over Cali never happened…Cosmic just made it up to start a thread…:lmao


http://www.maritimeconsultant.com/macnewsletters/Spring91/Tug.htm

[ChumpDumper]

Fucking laughing-stalk.:rollin

Damn, you are stupid.

What the hell would make anyone think it's a stalk?

[Yonivore]

...you are either being lazy or dishonest...Which is it?
Neither.

I say I read intelligence blogs that say they don't know what it was but they hope it's innocuous and that requires links?

What in that post, a summation of what the few intelligence blogs I read were saying, do you need to verify?

Fuck you, RG; when I post information that I think needs support, I'll link to the source. What you think I should do is meaningless.

[MannyIsGod]

It took more effort to write that post than to provide the links to KGB.blogspot.com . I guess that eliminates lazy and leaves dishonest.

Not that anyone is surprised.

[Yonivore]

It took more effort to write that post than to provide the links to KGB.blogspot.com . I guess that eliminates lazy and leaves dishonest.

Not that anyone is surprised.
No, it didn't. What I posted was my opinion of what I had read in my usual rounds of the various blogs I read regularly. I don't even recall from which I drew the consensus. Besides, I'm curious, what in my post needed to be verified? Is there something controversial about a blogger (intelligence or other) not claiming to have an answer to the event off the coast of California but, hoping it was innocuous? Or, me claiming that the few I read were, in my opinion, saying that?

If I had forwarded some of their guesses or theories, I'd see RG's point.

[clambake]

are you scared of shadows, too?

[CuckingFunt]

:rollin

Damn, you are stupid.

What the hell would make anyone think it's a stalk?

If you look closely, you can see Jack.

[ChumpDumper]

No, it didn't. What I posted was my opinion of what I had read in my usual rounds of the various blogs I read regularly. I don't even recall from which I drew the consensus. Besides, I'm curious, what in my post needed to be verified? Is there something controversial about a blogger (intelligence or other) not claiming to have an answer to the event off the coast of California but, hoping it was innocuous? Or, me claiming that the few I read were, in my opinion, saying that?

If I had forwarded some of their guesses or theories, I'd see RG's point.Hey, pussy: They just wanted to look at the fucking blogs.

No need to go full emo over such a simple request.

[SnakeBoy]

LOL...

If that video matches the incident...

It was a missile or rocket. That was no plane. If something else, it was Superman,...

Do they really think we are all that dumb?

Go Nobama...

Fucking laughing-stalk.

If that was a jet plane, it had something seriously wrong with it's engines.

It was an airplane.

[SnakeBoy]

If you look closely, you can see Jack.

:lol that's a good one.

[SnakeBoy]

How bout a youtube...

cWjFrOVuLmU

[SnakeBoy]

http://www.foxnews.com/static/managed/img/Scitech/Newport%20Webcam_604x341.png

On the right the "mystery missile". On the left a pic of America West Flight 808 taken 24 hours later traveling the same route.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/11/10/blogger-solved-california-missile-mystery/?asid=6a12aadf

[Yonivore]

Hadn't heard about the "blue dots." What'd those turn out to be?

[clambake]

Hadn't heard about the "blue dots." What'd those turn out to be?

your petrified imagination. lol

[MannyIsGod]

No, it didn't. What I posted was my opinion of what I had read in my usual rounds of the various blogs I read regularly. I don't even recall from which I drew the consensus. Besides, I'm curious, what in my post needed to be verified? Is there something controversial about a blogger (intelligence or other) not claiming to have an answer to the event off the coast of California but, hoping it was innocuous? Or, me claiming that the few I read were, in my opinion, saying that?

If I had forwarded some of their guesses or theories, I'd see RG's point.

It took more effort to write this post than to post a link. Therefore I'm going to eliminate lazy and go with dishonest.

[Yonivore]

It took more effort to write this post than to post a link. Therefore I'm going to eliminate lazy and go with dishonest.
D'okie dokie. Your finding will be given the consideration it deserves.

[RandomGuy]

Neither.

I say I read intelligence blogs that say they don't know what it was but they hope it's innocuous and that requires links?

What in that post, a summation of what the few intelligence blogs I read were saying, do you need to verify?

Fuck you, RG; when I post information that I think needs support, I'll link to the source. What you think I should do is meaningless.

As I said, if you are reading "intelligence blogs" then at least naming them should be easy.

Since you can't name your "intelligence blogs" or link them, it is more reasonable to assume it is one of your regular muck-raking political blogs, if they exist at all.

You do not have to post them on my say so, as you noted.

But the longer you refuse, the more you look like a fool.

That suits me just fine.

[RandomGuy]

Generally, I take people at their word when they state something. It is logical to do so.

Yonivore, you are the exception to the "generally". You are the worst kind of judgmental political hack, with a proven record of intellectual dishonesty.

You would say anything, and make any point, no matter how specious or patently unfair to advance your political views.

I try to stay out of your threads for the general reason that I feel dumber for having read them, and given that I have read some pretty fucktarded stuff from other conspiracy theorists, that is saying a lot.

[Yonivore]

Generally, I take people at their word when they state something. It is logical to do so.

Yonivore, you are the exception to the "generally". You are the worst kind of judgmental political hack, with a proven record of intellectual dishonesty.

You would say anything, and make any point, no matter how specious or patently unfair to advance your political views.

I try to stay out of your threads for the general reason that I feel dumber for having read them, and given that I have read some pretty fucktarded stuff from other conspiracy theorists, that is saying a lot.
And, yet, here you are.

[Yonivore]

As I said, if you are reading "intelligence blogs" then at least naming them should be easy.

Since you can't name your "intelligence blogs" or link them, it is more reasonable to assume it is one of your regular muck-raking political blogs, if they exist at all.

You do not have to post them on my say so, as you noted.

But the longer you refuse, the more you look like a fool.
The longer you demand I source an opinion, the more you look like a petty fool trying to make some petty point. It's become a matter of principle. If I thought anything in that post required sourcing, I would have sourced it.

Exactly what in the post, that's got your panties in a wad, needs verifying?


That suits me just fine.
Again, what suits you does not concern me.

[RandomGuy]

And, yet, here you are.

(sighs)

This isn't your thread, goober.

[RandomGuy]

It's become a matter of principle. If I thought anything in that post required sourcing, I would have sourced it.

:lol

I think its funny that you are pretending to be principled to cover for the fact that you pulled it out of your ass.

By all means, stick to yer guns, Tex. :rollin

[Yonivore]

(sighs)

This isn't your thread, goober.
Well, it hasn't been CosmicCowboy's for several pages.

[Yonivore]

:lol

I think its funny that you are pretending to be principled to cover for the fact that you pulled it out of your ass.

By all means, stick to yer guns, Tex. :rollin
I pulled an opinion out of the same place you pull yours? What facts, in that post, need to be verified?

Here's a little thought exercise for you.

Let's say you come home from work after a long day and, earlier that morning, you stood around the water cooler talking about that weird event that occurred off the coast of California. You shared with your wife, boyfriend, whatever that, "yeah, they were talking about that at work this morning; most people had no idea what it was but hoped it was innocuous."

Is your wife, boyfriend, going to ask you who "they" are? And, if so, why? It's not as if "we don't know what it was but we hope is nothing bad," is something that needs to be critically analyzed for accuracy or well-founded conjecture.

It's a fucking opinion I arrived at by reading a few intelligence blogs. And ,to be honest, when I posted that, it had been quite a while since I had made my pass through the blogs. While I may have remembered then, from which ones I formed that opinion, I certainly don't now.

So, again I ask, what good would it have done you for me to have said from which intelligence blogs I drew to form that statement?

[ChumpDumper]

They just want to read your fucking precious "intelligence" blogs, you idiot.

[ChumpDumper]

and lol Chinese missile

[CosmicCowboy]

Well, it hasn't been CosmicCowboy's for several pages.

I just thought it was interesting and just threw the Chinese angle out there for fun.

The Japs weren't supposed to be able to bomb Pearl Harbor either.

[ChumpDumper]

I just thought it was interesting and just threw the Chinese angle out there for fun.

The Japs weren't supposed to be able to bomb Pearl Harbor either.Why not? They had aircraft carriers.

[Sportcamper]

Seriously does anyone know what the unidentified object was? Nobody really believes that it was just an airplane do they?

[ChumpDumper]

Why would it not be just a plane?

[Sportcamper]

Because in the video it looks like a rocket...And because military jets followed it...

[ChumpDumper]

http://www.foxnews.com/static/managed/img/Scitech/Newport%20Webcam_604x341.png

On the right the "mystery missile". On the left a pic of America West Flight 808 taken 24 hours later traveling the same route.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/11/10/blogger-solved-california-missile-mystery/?asid=6a12aadfI heard nothing about military planes.

Look! Another missile!

http://i.bnet.com/blogs/preview-20100119-154110.jpg

Nope. Another plane. Over San Clemente. I'm seeing a pattern here.

[Sportcamper]

Chump…I don’t know what the object was…But it was a clear day & it caught the attention of a lot of people…I watched with binoculars military jets following the vapor trail…If the Pentagon official statement is that it was just an airplane to alleviate peoples concerns, so be it….I mean its not like they have ever been untruthful to us before?

[ChumpDumper]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if military jets followed the contrail after multiple panic reports of a missile.

Still, Occam says it was a plane.

[jack sommerset]

That ain't no airplane. I've seen airplanes and that ain't no airplane.

[CosmicCowboy]

Why not? They had aircraft carriers.

That weren't supposed to be able to get close enough to launch without detection.

See a pattern here?

[clambake]

military jets train here all the time......all the time.

[ChumpDumper]

That weren't supposed to be able to get close enough to launch without detection.

See a pattern here?What would have detected them?

For someone not saying it was the Chinese, you sure are saying it was the Chinese.

[CosmicCowboy]

What would have detected them?



They had destroyer pickets and 24/7 air surveillance with PBY-2 Catalinas, plus radar. Pearl harbor was supposed to be "safe".

[clambake]

pearl harbor was unprepared.

[Winehole23]

The longer you demand I source an opinion, the more you look like a petty fool trying to make some petty point. It's become a matter of principle. [:lol] If I thought anything in that post required sourcing, I would have sourced it.

Exactly what in the post... needs verifying?Your indirect quotation of intelligence blogs.

Since you refuse to link them, I'm just assuming they never existed and you're full of bs. Fair enough?

[ChumpDumper]

They had destroyer pickets and 24/7 air surveillance with PBY-2 Catalinas, plus radar. Pearl harbor was supposed to be "safe".The attack wave was picked up on radar. The officer making the call thought they were friendlies.

[CosmicCowboy]

The attack wave was picked up on radar. The officer making the call thought they were friendlies.

And the air force made the call that it was a contrail from a jet. :lol

[CosmicCowboy]

Chump, I never realized you had such deep faith in the veracity of the US Military/Intelligence community. :lol

[clambake]

hey cc, did yoni convince you that it's chinese, or did you convince yoni? lol

[Yonivore]

Your indirect quotation of intelligence blogs.

Since you refuse to link them, I'm just assuming they never existed and you're full of bs. Fair enough?
I'll tell you what I told the others, what you assume or think doesn't concern me.

[CosmicCowboy]

hey cc, did yoni convince you that it's chinese, or did you convince yoni? lol

LOL I don't really think it was the Chinese but I still like to argue.

[clambake]

LOL I don't really think it was the Chinese but I still like to argue.

you better be careful cuz yoni's shakin in his boots.

[ChumpDumper]

And the air force made the call that it was a contrail from a jet. :lolNo, the officer was told a group of B-17s was coming in from the mainland and that's what he thought it was.

[ChumpDumper]

Chump, I never realized you had such deep faith in the veracity of the US Military/Intelligence community. :lolDon't need to take their word for anything.

Looks like a plane and this precise thing has happened before in the same area -- and it was a plane.

[SnakeBoy]

I wouldn't be at all surprised if military jets followed the contrail after multiple panic reports of a missile.

Still, Occam says it was a plane.

That was talked about in the youtube I posted. The military jets flew over the area and said they didn't see anything unusual. As the physicist pointed out there wouldn't be anything unusual from their vantage because they were looking down and would only see an ordinary horizontal contrail of an airplane.

[Wild Cobra]

High clouds, like contrails, look thicker at sunset due to the angle of the sunlight hitting them and refraction by the atmosphere. This is highly common and makes for better sunsets. On many colder and clear days in South Texas and New Mexico the western sky will get cloudy at sunset (or basically late in the day) because of this yet you'll have a full sky of stars after sunset.
That is a possibility, along with camera exposure and background light.

Still... We shouldn't rule out that it could be a missile or rocket.

[Wild Cobra]

http://www.foxnews.com/static/managed/img/Scitech/Newport%20Webcam_604x341.png

On the right the "mystery missile". On the left a pic of America West Flight 808 taken 24 hours later traveling the same route.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/11/10/blogger-solved-california-missile-mystery/?asid=6a12aadf
Now this may be the truth.

[CuckingFunt]

I just thought it was interesting and just threw the Chinese angle out there for fun.

The Japs weren't supposed to be able to bomb Pearl Harbor either.

The Japs?

[CuckingFunt]

LOL I don't really think it was the Chinese but I still like to argue.

Translation: "I really think it was the Chinese, and made that clear within my opening post, but this thread has gone on longer than I anticipated and I lack any supporting evidence, so have decided instead to hide behind the excuse of speculation and/or playing devil's advocate."

[CosmicCowboy]

The Japs?

Oh please...

It was a WWII reference...they were the Japs then...

Save the PC card for something important...

[CosmicCowboy]

Translation: "I really think it was the Chinese, and made that clear within my opening post, but this thread has gone on longer than I anticipated and I lack any supporting evidence, so have decided instead to hide behind the excuse of speculation and/or playing devil's advocate."

Suit yourself. I don't really think it was the Chinese.

Play nice.

[Winehole23]

Save the PC card for something important...Like clowning the NAACP for having the word colored in its name?

[CosmicCowboy]

Like clowning the NAACP for having the word colored in their name?

Like that.

Its a fact.

The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.

It's clearly OK with them.

[Stringer_Bell]

hey cc, did yoni convince you that it's chinese, or did you convince yoni? lol

There's much I want to say. I wish I wasn't privy to some of the classified information that I am privy to...but my friends working in non-profits over in China definately say it's a missile.

[CuckingFunt]

Oh please...

It was a WWII reference...they were the Japs then...

Save the PC card for something important...

No, they weren't "the Japs" then. They were at the time commonly referred to as Japs in a derogatory manner.

There's a difference.

[ChumpDumper]

Like that.

Its a fact.

The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.

It's clearly OK with them.Is your term for the Japanese clearly OK with them?

[CuckingFunt]

Suit yourself. I don't really think it was the Chinese.

But neither do you believe it was a plane, as reported. Or a US missile, as originally speculated. So, either you have an opinion that is impossible to support logically, an opinion that has not yet been shared by you or anyone else, or no opinion whatsoever.


Play nice.

Don't talk down to me.

[TeyshaBlue]

There's much I want to say. I wish I wasn't privy to some of the classified information that I am privy to...but my friends working in non-profits over in China definately say it's a missile.

Logon as "Deep Throat" and spill them beans!:lol

[CosmicCowboy]

But neither do you believe it was a plane, as reported. Or a US missile, as originally speculated. So, either you have an opinion that is impossible to support logically, an opinion that has not yet been shared by you or anyone else, or no opinion whatsoever.

Correct. I don't have enough verifiable facts to make a firm conclusion. Hell, it could have been a UFO.



Don't talk down to me.

:lmao

Having a bad day?

[MannyIsGod]

That weren't supposed to be able to get close enough to launch without detection.

See a pattern here?

We did detect them.

[CosmicCowboy]

We did detect them.

As I remember it, not before launch and a subsequent clearly successful attack.

[CuckingFunt]

Correct. I don't have enough verifiable facts to make a firm conclusion. Hell, it could have been a UFO.

Really underlines the importance of this thread, then. Glad you started it.


:lmao

Having a bad day?

No. Having a pretty damn good one, actually. I just happen not to be swayed enough by your pseudo John Wayne persona to swoon and step aside, like a good woman should, when you tell me to play nice.

[ChumpDumper]

As I remember it, not before launch and a subsequent clearly successful attack.They were detected after launch. They were mistaken for American planes.

[Winehole23]

you can sit there at my feet/'cause I like you when you're sweet/and you know that it's not feminine to fight

[CosmicCowboy]

Really underlines the importance of this thread, then. Glad you started it.

oh pleeze...look at the time...I started it just minutes after the media reported a "rocket fired off the coast of California"...

Is every thread supposed to be monumental?



No. Having a pretty damn good one, actually. I just happen not to be swayed enough by your pseudo John Wayne persona to swoon and step aside, like a good woman should, when you tell me to play nice.

You are the one that came in swinging...now I'm totally crushed...your approval means EVERYTHING to me...:lol

[Stringer_Bell]

As I remember it, not before launch and a subsequent clearly successful attack.

I thought the US knew what was coming, but ripped out all their radar and stuff shortly before the attack so they were basically blind.

[CosmicCowboy]

They were detected after launch. They were mistaken for American planes.

And this is important to you why?

[ChumpDumper]

And this is important to you why?Because it's what actually happened.

Why is trying to propagate an erroneous history based on your recollection important to you?

[CosmicCowboy]

*sigh*

Chump, this is my original statement that you have been arguing against for two pages...



Why not? They had aircraft carriers.


That weren't supposed to be able to get close enough to launch without detection.


Conventional wisdom of the day was that the Japanese couldn't possibly sortie a carrier fleet, sail it across the Pacific Ocean, and launch aircraft on Pearl Harbor without being detected.

Conventional wisdom was wrong.

So are you.

[Winehole23]

oh pleeze...look at the time...I started it just minutes after the media reported a "rocket fired off the coast of California"...

Is every thread supposed to be monumental?You sure tried to make the molehill into a mountain. Regrets?

You are the one that came in swinging......You're the one who keeps whacking the hornet's nest.

lol @ CC getting <attacked> by CF


lol @ < it was a WWII reference >

[EVAY]

I don't know why Chump and CC are into the Pearl Harbor thing so heavily, but Chump is right on this one.

1. Radar had only recently been installed in Hawaii at the time of Pearl Harbor, and the operators who saw the Japanese fleet reported sighting a large group of planes coming in. The guy who took the report told the radar operators that what they were looking at was likely the large group of American planes that was expected that morning (the American planes actually arrived while the Japanese attack was going on).

2. The reason that Japan was not "supposed" to be able to attack Pearl Harbor was due to the fact that the harbor was so shallow that conventional torpedos of that era would be expected to hit the sea bed before they detonated. Japan had modified their torpedos to accomodate the shallow harbor, a fact that American intelligence was unaware of and did not, therefore, anticipate.

3. Of course the Japanese planes were not detected before or even shortly after launch. The technology of 1941 didn't allow for that on either side.
They were detected before they got to the island by radar, however.

[CuckingFunt]

oh pleeze...look at the time...I started it just minutes after the media reported a "rocket fired off the coast of California"...

And in starting the thread, just minutes after the media's report, you immediately connected it to the Chinese. Without any provocation to do so other than your own speculation.


Is every thread supposed to be monumental?

Of course not. Clearly. But when a thread, regardless its monumentality, proves to be empty and/or fraudulent at its core, are those posting within not supposed to comment on that fact?


You are the one that came in swinging...now I'm totally crushed...your approval means EVERYTHING to me...:lol

Condescension is a defense mechanism, then? I'm forced to assume that, since in this exchange you have yet to directly address anything I've said.

[CosmicCowboy]

Look CF, I come in here for amusement and to pass the time when I'm stuck at my desk. I admit that I sometimes just troll for reaction and sometimes when I post I'm serious as a heart attack. This time I was trolling for reaction. I really don't think it was the Chinese.

[CosmicCowboy]

I don't know why Chump and CC are into the Pearl Harbor thing so heavily, but Chump is right on this one.

1. Radar had only recently been installed in Hawaii at the time of Pearl Harbor, and the operators who saw the Japanese fleet reported sighting a large group of planes coming in. The guy who took the report told the radar operators that what they were looking at was likely the large group of American planes that was expected that morning (the American planes actually arrived while the Japanese attack was going on).

2. The reason that Japan was not "supposed" to be able to attack Pearl Harbor was due to the fact that the harbor was so shallow that conventional torpedos of that era would be expected to hit the sea bed before they detonated. Japan had modified their torpedos to accomodate the shallow harbor, a fact that American intelligence was unaware of and did not, therefore, anticipate.

3. Of course the Japanese planes were not detected before or even shortly after launch. The technology of 1941 didn't allow for that on either side.
They were detected before they got to the island by radar, however.

I know the inbound planes were detected on radar and dismissed as innocent.

I ALWAYS specified before LAUNCH (when it's too late)

Conventional wisdom that the destroyer screens and PBY-2 pickets would spot any danger before they got close enough to launch. They didn't.

[ChumpDumper]

*sigh*

Chump, this is my original statement that you have been arguing against for two pages...






Conventional wisdom of the day was that the Japanese couldn't possibly sortie a carrier fleet, sail it across the Pacific Ocean, and launch aircraft on Pearl Harbor without being detected.

Conventional wisdom was wrong.

So are you.The launched planes were definitely detected by the radar you mentioned.

I said nothing about the carrier group's being detected or not. For that, I'll say the Pacific Ocean is quite large.

I'm right about that, just as I was right about the planes' being detected.

You are now trying to support two failing arguments. It would be best if you just claimed to be kidding about Pearl as well.

[ChumpDumper]

I know the inbound planes were detected on radar and dismissed as innocent.

I ALWAYS specified before LAUNCH (when it's too late)

Conventional wisdom that the destroyer screens and PBY-2 pickets would spot any danger before they got close enough to launch. They didn't.Why? Do you have maps of the destroyer screens and seaplane flights at that time?

[Winehole23]

This time I was trolling for reaction.You got one from CF. You have yet to address it directly.

Why are you ducking her, CC?

[CosmicCowboy]

I'd love to stay and argue with you goobers but I've got a meeting to go to. Laterz.

[clambake]

it wouldn't be shocking to me if cc sincerely believed it was a chinese missile.

its about the programming.

[CuckingFunt]

You got one from CF. You have yet to address it directly.

Why are you ducking her, CC?

Wasn't the right type of reaction, apparently.

Maybe I should have called them "Chinks" instead.

[Cane]

I'd love to stay and argue with you goobers but I've got a meeting to go to. Laterz.

Then why are you still viewing the thread? :lol

[Yonivore]

Like that.

Its a fact.

The National Association for the Advancement of Colored People.

It's clearly OK with them.
It's still the United Negro College Fund, too.

[ChumpDumper]

It's still Cracker Barrel.

What's your point?

[Yonivore]

http://cbsnewyork.files.wordpress.com/2010/11/fire-in-the-sky.jpg?w=420 (http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2010/11/10/did-you-see-the-fire-in-the-nyc-sky/)

[Yonivore]

ECiqMqyAdD0

[clambake]

i'd rather see the utoob of you shaking in your boots.

[Winehole23]

Maybe I should have called them "Chinks" instead.So what if you did?

It's only <an historical reference>

[Winehole23]

http://www.legitgov.org/US-Notice-Mariners-Report-May-Explain-Mystery-Missile-Launch

[Yonivore]

http://www.legitgov.org/US-Notice-Mariners-Report-May-Explain-Mystery-Missile-Launch
That just adds to the intrigue.

[Wild Cobra]

That just adds to the intrigue.
Did you read this part:


CALIFORNIA.

MISSILES.

1. INTERMITTENT MISSILE FIRING OPERATIONS 0001Z TO 2359Z

DAILY MONDAY THRU SUNDAY IN THE NAVAL AIR WARFARE CENTER

SEA RANGE. THE MAJORITY OF MISSILE FIRINGS TAKE PLACE

1400Z TO 2359Z AND 0001Z TO 0200Z DAILY MONDAY THRU FRIDAY

IN AREA BOUND BY

34-02N 119-04W, 33-52N 119-06W, 33-29N 118-37W,

33-20N 118-37W, 32-11N 120-16W, 31-54N 121-35W,

35-09N 123-39W, 35-29N 123-00W, 35-57N 121-32W,

34-04N 119-04W.

2. VESSELS MAY BE REQUESTED TO ALTER COURSE WITHIN THE ABOVE

AREA DUE TO FIRING OPERATIONS AND ARE REQUESTED TO CONTACT

PLEAD CONTROL ON 5081.5 MHZ (5080 KHZ) OR 3238.5 KHZ (3237 KHZ)

SECONDARY OR 156.8 MHZ (CH 16) OR 127.55 MHZ BEFORE ENTERING

THE ABOVE BOUNDARIES AND MAINTAIN CONTINUOUS GUARD WHILE

WITHIN THE RANGE.

3. VESSELS INBOUND AND OUTBOUND FOR SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA PORTS

WILL CREATE THE LEAST INTERFERENCE TO FIRING OPERATIONS

DURING THE SPECIFIC PERIODS, AS WELL AS ENHANCE THE VESSEL'S

Now I didn't look at a map to see where those areas were, but off the top of my head, sounds like the right location.

[ChumpDumper]

The location is plausible if this is what they are talking about, but it's odd that such an obvious public warning wasn't cited by anyone in the initial panic. Haven't looked at the news lately, but one would think there should be some boats or ships that were contacted about launches in the area.

http://www.navair.navy.mil/ranges/SEA/images/photos/SEA/large/PRF-Ranges-Airspace_Lg.jpg

lol at the thought of the Chinese invading a US test range and firing a missile to threaten us because of a Fed policy.

[CosmicCowboy]

The location is plausible if this is what they are talking about, but it's odd that such an obvious public warning wasn't cited by anyone in the initial panic. Haven't looked at the news lately, but one would think there should be some boats or ships that were contacted about launches in the area.



lol at the thought of the Chinese invading a US test range and firing a missile to threaten us because of a Fed policy.

LOL at Chump getting trolled hook line and sinker and still jerking on that hook two days later.

[ChumpDumper]

LOL at Chump getting trolled hook line and sinker and still jerking on that hook two days later.Oh, now it was all a joke.

I can see how you you would want to retreat to that position at this point. Sorry it didn't work out for you.

[clambake]

lol trying to play the troll card.

[ChumpDumper]

Relax, CC -- there will still be plenty of opportunities to use your bunker in the future.

[Yonivore]

LOL at Chump getting trolled hook line and sinker and still jerking on that hook two days later.
That's just who he is.

[Yonivore]

Did you read this part:

Now I didn't look at a map to see where those areas were, but off the top of my head, sounds like the right location.
Nah, I took the opening paragraph at face value. It said the area of interest was included.

[ChumpDumper]

That's just who he is.:lmao

Both of you are lying in an attempt to walk back from your Chinese sub scenarios and save whatever you think your e-rep is here.

It's just who you are.

[clambake]

yoni has proven not to be cc's bunker material.

[Stringer_Bell]

I wonder if this is a part of some kind of Cloverfield or Batman 3 viral campaign.

[johnsmith]

The pulled troll card in this thread is hilarious in a 'cringe inducing' sort of way.

[Oh, Gee!!]

sounds like the chinese sneaked onto our country, installed a missle launch site, and launched a missle away from the US to prove their domination.

So I was wrong?

[LnGrrrR]

:rollin

Damn, you are stupid.

What the hell would make anyone think it's a stalk?

Ha! Thanks for pointing that out. Although "laughingstock" doesn't make much sense either, I enjoy grammatical errors at times.

[Yonivore]

So I was wrong?
Apparently. Now, it's aliens...of the extraterrestrial, not extraterritorial, kind.

[LnGrrrR]

http://www.foxnews.com/static/managed/img/Scitech/Newport%20Webcam_604x341.png

On the right the "mystery missile". On the left a pic of America West Flight 808 taken 24 hours later traveling the same route.

http://www.foxnews.com/scitech/2010/11/10/blogger-solved-california-missile-mystery/?asid=6a12aadf

You mean there were TWO missiles fired?

Nice to be back on the Political board; you can always trust that one of the board conservatives is predicting the end of the world. :D

[clambake]

Apparently. Now, it's aliens...of the extraterrestrial, not extraterritorial, kind.

you're afraid of that too, right?

[LnGrrrR]

LOL at Chump getting trolled hook line and sinker and still jerking on that hook two days later.

I think CC needs to learn the definition of trolling, or get better at it. As it is, it just looks like he comes up with dumb ideas, gets schooled, and then uses the "I was only joking!" excuse that stopped working around 3rd grade.

[LnGrrrR]

I pulled an opinion out of the same place you pull yours? What facts, in that post, need to be verified?

Here's a little thought exercise for you. blahblahblah

Intelligence blogs = Rush Limbaugh's homepage, Drudge Report

[LnGrrrR]

That ain't no airplane. I've seen airplanes and that ain't no airplane.

There's no such thing as bacteria. I've looked over and over on my skin, and I've never seen any wormy wiggly things on there that them thur scientists are always talking bout.

[Yonivore]

Intelligence blogs = Rush Limbaugh's homepage, Drudge Report
Welcome back; making up for lost time?

Do you think Rush Limbaugh (whose site I rarely visit) or DrudgeReport (a real good news aggregater but not much of a analytical site) would bother with asserting an uncertainty and then, express the hope that whatever it is, they hoped it was harmless?

[LnGrrrR]

Welcome back; making up for lost time?

Do you think Rush Limbaugh (whose site I rarely visit) or DrudgeReport (a real good news aggregater but not much of a analytical site) would bother with asserting an uncertainty and then, express the hope that whatever it is, they hoped it was harmless?

Trying! :toast Thanks for the welcome back.

I think the thig is Yoni, if you say "intelligence blogs" people are interested in reading them, as they might be able to read those sites and see whether the writers are knowledgeable, use correct facts, etc etc.

By stating you read "intelligence blogs" you were using a form of "appeal to authority", we're just making sure the appeal is a correct one. After all, if I comment on some medical condition by referencing "medical pages", but don't list which ones, why would I trust anyone to take me at face value? The internet tends to make claims of personal credibility highly dubious.

[Yonivore]

Trying! :toast Thanks for the welcome back.

I think the thig is Yoni, if you say "intelligence blogs" people are interested in reading them, as they might be able to read those sites and see whether the writers are knowledgeable, use correct facts, etc etc.
In normal company, that would be true. But, not in here.


By stating you read "intelligence blogs" you were using a form of "appeal to authority", we're just making sure the appeal is a correct one. After all, if I comment on some medical condition by referencing "medical pages", but don't list which ones, why would I trust anyone to take me at face value? The internet tends to make claims of personal credibility highly dubious.
Again, had the statement required "authority," you'd have a point. Since I was stating a personal opinion on an aggregate of what I read across several sources I didn't think it necessary. We can disagree on that, oh well.

And, once again, that reasoning is not an insulator in here. It wouldn't matter if I footnoted my posts with sources my critics frequented, I'd still be attacked. Picking nits is a favorite past (pass) time of my trolls.

But, thanks for attempting to mediate. And, truthfully, I'm not sure from which of the blogs I frequent daily, of which there are approximately 30, I
drew that opinion. I just said intelligence blogs because most of the other ones actually stated theories -- much of which tracked the conversation in here.

[LnGrrrR]

Again, had the statement required "authority," you'd have a point. Since I was stating a personal opinion on an aggregate of what I read across several sources I didn't think it necessary. We can disagree on that, oh well.


Long story short; you're free to say you've read intelligence blogs, and we're free to not believe the credibility of whatever blogs you're reading. :) :lol

[ChumpDumper]

In normal company, that would be true. But, not in here.Fuck you. We wanted to read the blogs.

Now we think they don't exist.

[Yonivore]

Long story short; you're free to say you've read intelligence blogs, and we're free to not believe the credibility of whatever blogs you're reading. :) :lol
Absolutely.

[MannyIsGod]

Trolling rule #1: If you have to tell others you're trolling you're not doing it right.

[Yonivore]

Trolling rule #1: If you have to tell others you're trolling you're not doing it right.
Talking to yourself?

[ChumpDumper]

Talking to yourself?Do you understand how a message board works?

[Winehole23]

It was funnier when I said it to him.

[Winehole23]

:rollin

[Winehole23]

Absolutely.If you care nothing for your own credibility why should anyone else believe you?

[Yonivore]

If you care nothing for your own credibility why should anyone else believe you?
Never said they should.

[Winehole23]

I never said you did.

[Yonivore]

I never said you did.
So, what's the point of making the point?

[Winehole23]

You can read. I already made it.

[Yonivore]

You can read. I already made it.
You obviously can't. I asked what the point was of making the point.

[Winehole23]

If you got the point, that was the point. If you didn't, you're more or less oblivious to English.

[Yonivore]

If you got the point, that was the point. If you didn't, you're more or less oblivious to English.
I understood the meaning of your post. My question was, what was the point of making the post if neither you nor I care?

[Winehole23]

Other people may care. And you might be wrong to assume I don't.

You being unwilling to stand up for yourself looks bad.

[Winehole23]

If you don't care whether or not people think you're a liar, why would you ever restrain yourself from bending the truth or telling outright falsehoods?

Especially with the foreknowledge that they might pass undetected and the near certainty you'll defend them to the utmost, however absurd the destination.

[Yonivore]

Other people may care. And you might be wrong to assume I don't.

You being unwilling to stand up for yourself looks bad.
Okay, well, to settle the question; I don't care if you or anyone else cares.

[Winehole23]

(Habitual liars know how much they get away with. You know it. Otherwise you'd not dump so much fertilizer on us.)

[Yonivore]

(Habitual liars know how much they get away with. You know it. Otherwise you'd not dump so much fertilizer on us.)
What's the matter, wake up with Vaseline leaking out of your ass?

[Winehole23]

I never went to sleep yet. Are you dreaming?

[Yonivore]

I never went to sleep yet. Are you dreaming?
So, you just have Vaseline leaking out of your ass. Got it.

[Winehole23]

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/perseveration

[Def Rowe]

Winehole23 struck a nerve.

[Winehole23]

@yoni: Some imagination you've got there. Fixated on buttholes, are ye?

[Yonivore]

http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/perseveration
So, you got reamed over and over again; and, as you put it, "never went to sleep yet." At the clinic?

[Winehole23]

So, you got reamed over and over again...L'esprit d'escalier (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/esprit%20d%27escalier)...after you've been thrown down the stairs. Repeatedly.

...; and...A semicolon is a coordinating conjunction. Same as and. Using both is overkill.

...as you put it, "never went to sleep yet." At the clinic?Incoherence and false hilarity are your only hope now.

[Winehole23]

Oh, and more gay baiting. That seems to work pretty good for you when you're all out of ideas.

[Yonivore]

Oh, and more gay baiting. That seems to work pretty good for you when you're all out of ideas.
It's only baiting if you're gay. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Is Def Rowe your partner?

I think that's cute.

[Def Rowe]

It's funny that you're pissed.

[Winehole23]

It's only baiting if you're gay.If you just like the way it feels I guess that's a whole 'nother thing. I'll cede to you on that one.

[Oh, Gee!!]

So yoni is a liar and doesn't care who knows it, yet he keeps pushing an agenda and argues to convince us of its truth. What gives?

[Yonivore]

So yoni is a liar and doesn't care who knows it, yet he keeps pushing an agenda and argues to convince us of its truth. What gives?
Why do you care?

[Cane]

So yoni is a liar and doesn't care who knows it, yet he keeps pushing an agenda and argues to convince us of its truth. What gives?

He's basically a god damn idiot. :lol

[Blake]

Why do you care?

why do you spread lies? Why don't you care about truth?

[Oh, Gee!!]

Why do you care?

I'm fascinated at how deep your pathology runs.

[Yonivore]

:lmao Like slopping the hogs.


FmzMRWsY8Zo

Y'all enjoy.

[Yonivore]

I'm fascinated at how deep your pathology runs.
Fascinating! Actually, no, not really.

[MannyIsGod]

Trolling rule #1: If you have to tell others you're trolling you're not doing it right.