How should I put this...what's your favorite War?

[DeadlyDynasty]

What is/was your favorite war to study, read about, watch films about, or even play games about (for you gamer fans)? Having never served in the military myself, I'm not trying to make light of any conflicts, but I do love military history. Personally--and I'm not sure why--but WWI has always fascinated me more than any other conflict. Started by a single bullet, employed both primitive and modern weaponry, and involved arguably the scariest and most ineffective strategy in history: trench warfare. Most people are big WWII buffs (and I enjoy it from a historical perspective as well), but WWI has always peaked my interest more and I wish there were more than just a handful of movies about it.

What's your pick? Any specific battles in particular?
For me it's Gallipoli, Verdun, Jutland, 2nd battle of Ypres, and the Somme in WWI
Montecassino, Stalingrad, and Battle of Britain in WWII.
Antietam in American Civil War
Battle of the Ia Drang Valley and Hamburger Hill in Vietnam.

[Texas_Ranger]

I liked ww2 in school. It's was really interesting. I know I never had to learn at home for the test, cause I was really interested in it and was listening to what the teacher was saying about the war. And that was like the only thing I was paying attention in school.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Here's an interesting documentary done 5-6 years ago about the conflict: World War 1 in Colour.
b8wo59XUH4Q&feature=related

[leemajors]

Thirty years war. Have to go with Gustavus Adolphus

[ObiwanGinobili]

No love for the War of the Roses??
Without all that protracted bickering between Lancaster & York (2 factions of the same royal house) the Tudor dynasty would never have arisen.

And where would Showtime, modern historical romance novels, and several hollywood producers be now if they didn't have Henry VIII or Elizabeth I ?
It's the longest running telenovela of all time! all time!

[vy65]

clearly wwii ... can't top the holocaust

[mrsmaalox]

I took a course on the Mexican Revolution in college. It was great, and having grown up in west Texas, it had some geographical significance. And lots really outrageous, over the top characters too.

[RandomGuy]

What is/was your favorite war to study, read about, watch films about, or even play games about (for you gamer fans)? Having never served in the military myself, I'm not trying to make light of any conflicts, but I do love military history. Personally--and I'm not sure why--but WWI has always fascinated me more than any other conflict. Started by a single bullet, employed both primitive and modern weaponry, and involved arguably the scariest and most ineffective strategy in history: trench warfare. Most people are big WWII buffs (and I enjoy it from a historical perspective as well), but WWI has always peaked my interest more and I wish there were more than just a handful of movies about it.

What's your pick? Any specific battles in particular?
For me it's Gallipoli, Verdun, Jutland, 2nd battle of Ypres, and the Somme in WWI
Montecassino, Stalingrad, and Battle of Britain in WWII.
Antietam in American Civil War
Battle of the Ia Drang Valley and Hamburger Hill in Vietnam.

You might like this:
http://www.historyonthenet.com/Lessons/worksheets/ww1.htm

Also:
Google the term:
World War One simple version angus macleod

You will find it funny. the follow up for WW2 wasn't quite as funny, and seemed a bit rushed.

[The Gemini Method]

I would have to go with Dubya Dubya 2 on this one...just for the sheer amount of combatants and the lingering effect it had on the world that is still apparent today. You had two Axis powers that were essentially taking a free pass at the basket and controlled almost all of the map. It also flung the U.S. and the Soviet Union into the spotlight for the next 40 years with the Cold War and also helped the Germans and Japanese look elsewhere rather than military conquest.

The Civil War would probably be second in my opinion. That was a make-it-or-break-it moment for the United States...

[DeadlyDynasty]

You might like this:
http://www.historyonthenet.com/Lessons/worksheets/ww1.htm

Also:
Google the term:
World War One simple version angus macleod

You will find it funny. the follow up for WW2 wasn't quite as funny, and seemed a bit rushed.

:lol sadly, i'll be doing some of those crosswords today

[DeadlyDynasty]

I would have to go with Dubya Dubya 2 on this one...just for the sheer amount of combatants and the lingering effect it had on the world that is still apparent today. You had two Axis powers that were essentially taking a free pass at the basket and controlled almost all of the map. It also flung the U.S. and the Soviet Union into the spotlight for the next 40 years with the Cold War and also helped the Germans and Japanese look elsewhere rather than military conquest.

The Civil War would probably be second in my opinion. That was a make-it-or-break-it moment for the United States...

Solid points, but it can be argued that the Treaty of Versailles undoubtedly caused WWII, thusly creating the lingering effects of today. It's just fascinating how petty WWI was set off, and the dire consequences since then

[The Gemini Method]

Solid points, but it can be argued that the Treaty of Versailles undoubtedly caused WWII, thusly creating the lingering effects of today. It's just fascinating how petty WWI was set off, and the dire consequences since then

Very true. The Treaty of Versailles left Germany in shambles and cultured the environment that allowed for the rise of the National Socialist party to ascend. It also left Japan off the table as an up-and-coming super power and totally discredit them when they were asking for increased export of goods. Thus, you are entirely correct that WWI and the resulting ignorance of the Treaty of Versailles was a direct cause of WWII and its importance on the future.

Also, in WWI there were a number of opportunities for Hitler to have met his maker...but for some twist of fate, he was always one step ahead of death.

[ALVAREZ6]

I was torn between the American Revolution and the Civil War.


The worst war: the war on drugs. Shows our government's ignorance and stupidity. :bang:bang:bang:bang:bang

[The Gemini Method]

i was torn between the american revolution and the civil war.


The worst war: The war on drugs. Shows our government's ignorance and stupidity. :bang:bang:bang:bang:bang

+420

[DeadlyDynasty]

I was torn between the American Revolution and the Civil War.


The worst war: the war on drugs. Shows our government's ignorance and stupidity. :bang:bang:bang:bang:bang

No love for the Falklands War? :lol

[leemajors]

I would have to go with Dubya Dubya 2 on this one...just for the sheer amount of combatants and the lingering effect it had on the world that is still apparent today. You had two Axis powers that were essentially taking a free pass at the basket and controlled almost all of the map. It also flung the U.S. and the Soviet Union into the spotlight for the next 40 years with the Cold War and also helped the Germans and Japanese look elsewhere rather than military conquest.

The Civil War would probably be second in my opinion. That was a make-it-or-break-it moment for the United States...

WW1 was far more brutal than WW2 imo, on the psyche of the world and sheer carnage. Notably the Battle of the Somme, debut of tanks, poison gas in warfare, and the trenches.

[SpursWoman]

The Trojan War


I've always been enthralled by Greek Mythology. :nerd

[RandomGuy]

WW1 was far more brutal than WW2 imo, on the psyche of the world and sheer carnage. Notably the Battle of the Somme, debut of tanks, poison gas in warfare, and the trenches.

Just as an FYI, both killed roughly the same % of the global population, although ww2 killed more in absolute terms.


World War II casualty statistics vary greatly. Estimates of total dead range from 50 million to over 70 million.[1] The sources cited on this page document an estimated death toll in World War II of 62 to 78 million, making it the deadliest war ever. When scholarly sources differ on the number of deaths in a country, a range of war losses is given, in order to inform readers that the death toll is disputed. Civilians killed totaled from 40 to 52 million, including 13 to 20 million from war-related disease and famine. Total military dead: from 22 to 25 million, including deaths in captivity of about 5 million prisoners of war.

Over 2% of the global population (2.3bn) died between 1939 and 1945.



The total number of casualties in World War I, both military and civilian, was about 37 million

Over 2% of the global population then (1.8bn) died between 1914 and 1918. (not sure if this includes disease deaths)

[Libri]

Spanish Civil War

[DeadlyDynasty]

Both were horrific no doubt, but I agree with Lee in the "psyche and carnage" arguments. I can't imagine anything scarier than "going over the top" and running head first into machine gun fire and artillery bombardments while getting stuck in barbed wire in No Man's Land. Not to mention the landmines and gas attacks. It would be akin to landing on Omaha Beach in WWII--but EVERY DAY, with little or nothing to show for it. Most of the early combatants of WWI also thought the war would be over by Christmas 1914, but it dragged on till November 1918. WWI had significant losses with both sides barely gaining any ground in 5 years. Both were beyond tragic, but the degree of daily carnage on a European battlefield in WWI must have been maddening.

[The Gemini Method]

WW1 was far more brutal than WW2 imo, on the psyche of the world and sheer carnage. Notably the Battle of the Somme, debut of tanks, poison gas in warfare, and the trenches.

For sheer brutality? The Civil War tops probably both. The death stats were about the same, but WWII came with a weapon that trumps all that and created a psyche of mass paranoia, the atomic/nuclear bomb. The millions killed to end the war and thousands of death post-Hiroshima and Nagasaki with the advent of the Cold War, Korean War, Vietnam War, and the arms race. Also, you have to factor in the untold thousands that died in the game of espionage. People who weren't around the inner circles of the government rarely knew or digested how close we were to a nuclear holocaust in the 50's and 60's. Just imagine what might have happened if the fortunes were not as favorable during the Cuban Missle Crisis. All because we were the first to unleash that terror that was weaponized in WWII.

However, I don't think there should be war...all of them are chock full of brutality...I had a great uncle and grandpa that fought in the Second World War, and perhaps that lends to a little bias, but man...

[DeadlyDynasty]

Just as an FYI, both killed roughly the same % of the global population, although ww2 killed more in absolute terms.



Over 2% of the global population (2.3bn) died between 1939 and 1945.




Over 2% of the global population then (1.8bn) died between 1914 and 1918. (not sure if this includes disease deaths)

Props on getting the #'s. We lose 2% of the world's population twice. Absolutely disgusting.

[Libri]

Both were horrific no doubt, but I agree with Lee in the "psyche and carnage" arguments. I can't imagine anything scarier than "going over the top" and running head first into machine gun fire and artillery bombardments while getting stuck in barbed wire in No Man's Land. Not to mention the landmines and gas attacks. It would be akin to landing on Omaha Beach in WWII--but EVERY DAY, with little or nothing to show for it. Most of the early combatants of WWI also thought the war would be over by Christmas 1914, but it dragged on till November 1918. WWI had significant losses with both sides barely gaining any ground in 5 years. Both were beyond tragic, but the degree of daily carnage on a European battlefield in WWI must have been maddening.

Plus, if WWI soldiers were asked why they were fighting, most would probably not have an answer.

[The Gemini Method]

Plus, if WWI soldiers were asked why they were fighting, most would probably not have an answer.

That could've been said of the Korean Conflict...the Vietnam War...and quite possibly the Civil War as well since the majority of the soldiers for the North or South were uneducated and might've been amiss with the current events of the 1860's...

All Quiet On the Western Front is definitely a must read for anyone wanting a quality story on WWI.

[DeadlyDynasty]

For sheer brutality? The Civil War tops probably both. The death stats were about the same, but WWII came with a weapon that trumps all that and created a psyche of mass paranoia, the atomic/nuclear bomb. The millions killed to end the war and thousands of death post-Hiroshima and Nagasaki with the advent of the Cold War, Korean War, Vietnam War, and the arms race. Also, you have to factor in the untold thousands that died in the game of espionage. People who weren't around the inner circles of the government rarely knew or digested how close we were to a nuclear holocaust in the 50's and 60's. Just imagine what might have happened if the fortunes were not as favorable during the Cuban Missle Crisis. All because we were the first to unleash that terror that was weaponized in WWII.

However, I don't think there should be war...all of them are chock full of brutality...I had a great uncle and grandpa that fought in the Second World War, and perhaps that lends to a little bias, but man...

True...my maternal grandfather was in the Pacific theater, and was on the USS Edmonds (I believe that was the ship) when they rescued crew from the Indianapolis. My paternal grandfather fought in the european theater

[DeadlyDynasty]

That could've been said of the Korean Conflict...the Vietnam War...and quite possibly the Civil War as well since the majority of the soldiers for the North or South were uneducated and might've been amiss with the current events of the 1860's...

All Quiet On the Western Front is definitely a must read for anyone wanting a quality story on WWI.

From a german perspective, no less. Good read

[The Gemini Method]

True...my maternal grandfather was in the Pacific theater, and was on the USS Edmonds (I believe that was the ship) when they rescued crew from the Indianapolis. My paternal grandfather fought in the european theater

My grandfather, on my mother's side, fixed the P-51 towards the end of the war after serving as a G.I. for the first half of the European Theater and seeing action in Italy. My Great Uncle was involved with D-Day, but I'm not sure in what capacity. I also lost a cousin in the Vietnam War that I never had the chance to know. I can only imagine what lifelines were eradicated and what might've became of the millions that were killed in the wars of the 20th Century alone...wow.

[DeadlyDynasty]

My grandfather, on my mother's side, fixed the P-51 towards the end of the war after serving as a G.I. for the first half of the European Theater and seeing action in Italy. My Great Uncle was involved with D-Day, but I'm not sure in what capacity. I also lost a cousin in the Vietnam War that I never had the chance to know. I can only imagine what lifelines were eradicated and what might've became of the millions that were killed in the wars of the 20th Century alone...wow.

Pretty disturbing to say the least...

Love the Mustangs, extremely well built planes from what I've read. Those and Boeing's B-17s were marvels. In a similar vein of the horror of trench warfare, I also can't imagine the balls it must've taken to be a ball-turret gunner on a bomber.

[Libri]

That could've been said of the Korean Conflict...the Vietnam War...and quite possibly the Civil War as well since the majority of the soldiers for the North or South were uneducated and might've been amiss with the current events of the 1860's...

All Quiet On the Western Front is definitely a must read for anyone wanting a quality story on WWI.

Good book, I have it. There's also a 1930 black and white movie that is very good.

[The Gemini Method]

Pretty disturbing to say the least...

Love the Mustangs, extremely well built planes from what I've read. Those and Boeing's B-17s were marvels. In a similar vein of the horror of trench warfare, I also can't imagine the balls it must've taken to be a ball-turret gunner on a bomber.

The crucial part of the bombing of German targets would've been way more perilous without the design change to a better engine and the bubble canopy in the latter version of the P-51. The additional ability to fly nearly 3 times the distance of its predeccessor was definitely a blessing for the B-17 squadrons. I remember a story my mom used to tell me, and I'm not sure if it was true, about a friend my grandpa made with a side gunner of a B-17 that was from the same town he was and how they were good friends. He said that the last mission his friend went on was hell on earth and that when the B-17 came back, it was full of holes and looked like it was on its very last flight. His friend managed to make it back, but was later killed in a car accident in which the jeep he was riding in went off the road and into a grove of trees.

*Also, there are many who were there and those that are now historians that said the refusal by North American to make the must needed alterations to the Mustang delayed the end of the European Theater (and D-Day as well...) by a considerable time. It would've allowed the bombing raids to have been more well-guarded and more accurate.

[Duff McCartney]

Solid points, but it can be argued that the Treaty of Versailles undoubtedly caused WWII, thusly creating the lingering effects of today. It's just fascinating how petty WWI was set off, and the dire consequences since then

I think the more important argument to be made as a history major is that people who were at Versailles argued that it would just lead to another war.

Can't remember the name but one of the French officials said and I'm paraphrasing..."This is not a peace treaty, but a cease-fire for 20 years." Crazy how right he was.

On topic, mine would have to be the American Civil War. I love reading about it because in my mind and of course historians would also agree that the war was more than just 4 years. It was almost 75 years prior to the '61 that the build up started and 12 years after '65 that it really ended.

Me personally as a history major, I simply despise the Lost Cause revisionism that the South has regarding the Civil War. I loathe that kind of revisionism and the more I study it the more I have nothing but contempt for the South.

[Duff McCartney]

Plus, if WWI soldiers were asked why they were fighting, most would probably not have an answer.

I think alot of them did, although they probably wouldn't have been able to elaborate. I think it had alot to do with the build of nationalism in Europe at the time. So every soldier was fighting as a German, or French, or British soldier and had their own sense of nationalism.

All Quiet on the Western Front, possibly my favorite war novel, says it best when the main character is describing his enlistment and people who refused to volunteer he said "Even one's parents were ready with the word 'coward'."

I think that sums up how people felt about WWI, you were fighting for your country more than anything else and those who didn't were cowards. There was no such thing as objecting.

[ChumpDumper]

Good book, I have it. There's also a 1930 black and white movie that is very good.There is a John Boy Walton movie adaptation too that is surprisingly good.

[The Gemini Method]

I think the more important argument to be made as a history major is that people who were at Versailles argued that it would just lead to another war.

Can't remember the name but one of the French officials said and I'm paraphrasing..."This is not a peace treaty, but a cease-fire for 20 years." Crazy how right he was.

On topic, mine would have to be the American Civil War. I love reading about it because in my mind and of course historians would also agree that the war was more than just 4 years. It was almost 75 years prior to the '61 that the build up started and 12 years after that it really ended.

Me personally as a history major, I simply despise the Lost Cause revisionism that the South has regarding the Civil War. I loathe that kind of revisionism and the more I study it the more I have nothing but contempt for the South.

Yes, you're absolutely right about those who forwarned the masses at Versailles of a posibility return to all-out war. I think there were a few Americans who were echoing the same sentiment and some British as well. I wonder, even with their noblest of intentions at the forefront of discussion, that even Wilson and other heads like Clemenceau had to have an inkling of the future ramifications of the treaty being signed...

[The Gemini Method]

I just re-watched the Thin Red Line again a few weeks ago, and I don't know if I'm in the minority--but I thought that was an amazing movie depicting the psychological aspect of war. The super low downtime between battles and the high octane violence that when a skurmish broke out you went to the opposite side of the spectrum.

[DeadlyDynasty]

I think the more important argument to be made as a history major is that people who were at Versailles argued that it would just lead to another war.

Can't remember the name but one of the French officials said and I'm paraphrasing..."This is not a peace treaty, but a cease-fire for 20 years." Crazy how right he was.

On topic, mine would have to be the American Civil War. I love reading about it because in my mind and of course historians would also agree that the war was more than just 4 years. It was almost 75 years prior to the '61 that the build up started and 12 years after that it really ended.

Me personally as a history major, I simply despise the Lost Cause revisionism that the South has regarding the Civil War. I loathe that kind of revisionism and the more I study it the more I have nothing but contempt for the South.

+1...and he wasn't the only one to make his voice known. What's crazy is that Ho Chi Minh was at that treaty too...needless to say it had far-reaching effects on future military policy.

You and Gem both brought up the Civil War, and to some extent I agree. Especially the Andersonville prison camp...not sure if ya'll are familiar with it, but it's one of the most atrocious examples of war crimes in American history

[DeadlyDynasty]

There is a John Boy Walton movie adaptation too that is surprisingly good.

Was Ernest Borgnine in it?

[The Gemini Method]

Andersonville was definitely an American atrocity and the sad part is that it is often a sidenote to the more glamorized battles of the Civil War such as Antietam, Gettysburg, and Sherman's March to Atlanta (which, was a act of brutality it its own right...). I guess that is what comes within the borders of war. I have to give credit to Glory for my interest in the Civil War and actually, war itself. Just wanted to study it because I do believe that as time passes less and less of the memories of the 20th century and its abundance of warfare will be dangeroulsy forgotten. I would like to tell my grandchildren, or at least attempt to educate them on the sacrifices the American people made...

[Duff McCartney]

I just re-watched the Thin Red Line again a few weeks ago, and I don't know if I'm in the minority--but I thought that was an amazing movie depicting the psychological aspect of war. The super low downtime between battles and the high octane violence that when a skurmish broke out you went to the opposite side of the spectrum.

I never saw that movie but I think it suffered from the fact that it came out the same year as possibly THE greatest war movie of all time Saving Private Ryan. It's also about the same war as well.

[DeadlyDynasty]

I just re-watched the Thin Red Line again a few weeks ago, and I don't know if I'm in the minority--but I thought that was an amazing movie depicting the psychological aspect of war. The super low downtime between battles and the high octane violence that when a skurmish broke out you went to the opposite side of the spectrum.

Well done and well acted...my only beef was that they went a little too overboard with the inner monologue imo.

[The Gemini Method]

+1...and he wasn't the only one to make his voice known. What's crazy is that Ho Chi Minh was at that treaty too...needless to say it had far-reaching effects on future military policy.

You and Gem both brought up the Civil War, and to some extent I agree. Especially the Andersonville prison camp...not sure if ya'll are familiar with it, but it's one of the most atrocious examples of war crimes in American history

Interesting add-on to this: Pol Pot was also educated in France and studied the ramifications of the Versailles treaty as well...and well, we all knew what transpired in Kampuchea (Cambodia) under his watch.

[The Gemini Method]

I never saw that movie but I think it suffered from the fact that it came out the same year as possibly THE greatest war movie of all time Saving Private Ryan. It's also about the same war as well.

I forgot about that tidbit. Though you're probably right about the movie and its release...the two theaters were different as they were the same...The style of fighting were different and you could possibly make the argument that the European Theater was still steeped in the old style WWI type of fighting and the Pacific Theater was the beginning of the jungle-style guerrilla fighting that influenced the Vietcong and NVA in the Vietnam War and in some aspects, the Korean conflict and the Afgani/Iraqi Wars that followed...

[Duff McCartney]

Andersonville was definitely an American atrocity and the sad part is that it is often a sidenote to the more glamorized battles of the Civil War such as Antietam, Gettysburg, and Sherman's March to Atlanta (which, was a act of brutality it its own right...). I guess that is what comes within the borders of war. I have to give credit to Glory for my interest in the Civil War and actually, war itself. Just wanted to study it because I do believe that as time passes less and less of the memories of the 20th century and its abundance of warfare will be dangeroulsy forgotten. I would like to tell my grandchildren, or at least attempt to educate them on the sacrifices the American people made...

I'm not patriot, and don't study history for the American side of it since U.S. history is probably my least favorite but that's not a knock on it. But I think history is so important because well in my Historical Methods class we studied the Holocaust and had to write a paper on it.

Needless to say our main area of focus was Holocaust denial and i think it's so important that people study history because if nobody does, we allow these liars to claim things that just aren't true. People like Ernst Zundel and the IHR can use pseudo-history and claim it to be true while nobody else can say other wise because they don't know.

[The Gemini Method]

Well done and well acted...my only beef was that they went a little too overboard with the inner monologue imo.

I think they were attempting to make it seem overdone because of the need to make the experience ornate. But now that I look back at it, I can't disagree with you on that.

[Duff McCartney]

I forgot about that tidbit. Though you're probably right about the movie and its release...the two theaters were different as they were the same...The style of fighting were different and you could possibly make the argument that the European Theater was still steeped in the old style WWI type of fighting and the Pacific Theater was the beginning of the jungle-style guerrilla fighting that influenced the Vietcong and NVA in the Vietnam War and in some aspects, the Korean conflict and the Afgani/Iraqui Wars that followed...

I'll agree with that. I think in Europe you had a sort of overwhelming force in order to take the continent. While in Asia because of the terrain, there were tunnels and the likes dug in order to escape and elude much like in Vietnam.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Interesting add-on to this: Pol Pot was also educated in France and studied the ramifications of the Versailles treaty as well...and well, we all knew what transpired in Kampuchea (Cambodia) under his watch.

The Killing Fields is a great film about that. Malkovich is great in a supporting role.

[ChumpDumper]

Was Ernest Borgnine in it?Yes, he was the sergeant.

[The Gemini Method]

The Killing Fields is a great film about that. Malkovich is great in a supporting role.

It was a great movie about that and one of the fiew films that came out about the Killing Fields. Growing up in the Long Beach area, I was immersed in the Cambodian ex-patriate community that is large out here and to hear some of the stories that these people lived through is just amazing. I mean, just the terrible things humans do to each other used to be a shock...but now the more I read about our history, the less surprised I am and that's a terrible viewpoint to really have.

*Note: The main actor in Killing Fields was gunned down in L.A. for his watch in the 90's I believe...

[Libri]

There is a John Boy Walton movie adaptation too that is surprisingly good.

I'll make sure to check it out.

[DeadlyDynasty]

It was a great movie about that and one of the fiew films that came out about the Killing Fields. Growing up in the Long Beach area, I was immersed in the Cambodian ex-patriate community that is large out here and to hear some of the stories that these people lived through is just amazing. I mean, just the terrible things humans do to each other used to be a shock...but now the more I read about our history, the less surprised I am and that's a terrible viewpoint to really have.

*Note: The main actor in Killing Fields was gunned down in L.A. for his watch in the 90's I believe...

It would have to be the Cambodian actor if it happened b/c Sam Waterston was the main lead. Sad to hear though, if it is in fact true.

Getting back to what you both were mentioning earlier, I agree about the need for education of these wars. One of the inspirations (for lack of a better word) for starting this thread was a conversation me and one of my former students (used to teach broadcasting and publications at a high school back in 04-05) had about good WWII movies." I said I wished there were more WWI movies period, to which he followed with something like, "nothing really happened in that war anyways." Just astonished by the ignorance, and of course it's not all his fault.

[The Gemini Method]

It would have to be the Cambodian actor if it happened b/c Sam Waterston was the main lead. Sad to hear though, if it is in fact true.

Yeah, it was the Cambodian lead...

Getting back to what you both were mentioning earlier, I agree about the need for education of these wars. One of the inspirations (for lack of a better word) for starting this thread was a conversation me and one of my former students (used to teach broadcasting and publications at a high school back in 04-05) had about good WWII movies." I said I wished there were more WWI movies period, to which he followed with something like, "nothing really happened in that war anyways." Just astonished by the ignorance, and of course it's not all his fault.


While there is a wealth of knowledge on WWI to be learned, it isn't always in the sexy form of dispersement. The one thing that the internet age has allowed is the ability to self-educate one's self about things like the impact WWI had and so on. The downside of today's youth is that if it isn't instant gratification, they don't want any part of it. I got the same kinda reaction from my gf about why I was so enthused about The Pacific being released on Blu-Ray and I told her that it is important we keep in perspective of what we did(do) as a people. That as the last remaining veterans of WW2 slip away, we're losing the firsthand accounts and if it takes shows like The Pacific to keep the history of just 65-70 years ago...then I'm going to do my best in keeping informed. Also, I throw in the cliche...if it weren't for them we'd probably have regressed as a society...

Haing S. Ngor:

http://www.cnn.com/US/9602/haing_ngor/index.html

[Duff McCartney]

It would have to be the Cambodian actor if it happened b/c Sam Waterston was the main lead. Sad to hear though, if it is in fact true.

Getting back to what you both were mentioning earlier, I agree about the need for education of these wars. One of the inspirations (for lack of a better word) for starting this thread was a conversation me and one of my former students (used to teach broadcasting and publications at a high school back in 04-05) had about good WWII movies." I said I wished there were more WWI movies period, to which he followed with something like, "nothing really happened in that war anyways." Just astonished by the ignorance, and of course it's not all his fault.

I just don't think schools nowadays are putting it in the proper context. I think alot of people who don't know history just consider WWI and WWII to be separate wars and that they have no relation to each other.

There was infinitely more things that went into the build up of WWI than of WWII. I love studying both and I think because WWI has no "Holocaust" to speak of and that's why he might say that.

In WWII you had that, Pearl Harbor, and the Atomic Bomb. I think that in studying both wars for WWI you have to look at Europe probably from the French Revolution up until 1914 to grasp what it was about. WWII you could look at from 1945 up until now what it has done.

In a sense, I believe that other than the actual fighting, WWI you could look at the pre-history and for WWII the post-history to see what they really mean in the historical context.

[DeadlyDynasty]

I just don't think schools nowadays are putting it in the proper context. I think alot of people who don't know history just consider WWI and WWII to be separate wars and that they have no relation to each other.

There was infinitely more things that went into the build up of WWI than of WWII. I love studying both and I think because WWI has no "Holocaust" to speak of and that's why he might say that.

In WWII you had that, Pearl Harbor, and the Atomic Bomb. I think that in studying both wars for WWI you have to look at Europe probably from the French Revolution up until 1914 to grasp what it was about. WWII you could look at from 1945 up until now what it has done.

In a sense, I believe that other than the actual fighting, WWI you could look at the pre-history and for WWII the post-history to see what they really mean in the historical context.

Agreed, especially with the correlation of pretty much every major conflict in the last 200 years. The Crimean War, and later, the Franco-Prussian War were huge omens of WWI. Especially since, in the latter of the two, Bismarck pretty much decimated many French cities.

[leemajors]

For sheer brutality? The Civil War tops probably both. The death stats were about the same, but WWII came with a weapon that trumps all that and created a psyche of mass paranoia, the atomic/nuclear bomb. The millions killed to end the war and thousands of death post-Hiroshima and Nagasaki with the advent of the Cold War, Korean War, Vietnam War, and the arms race. Also, you have to factor in the untold thousands that died in the game of espionage. People who weren't around the inner circles of the government rarely knew or digested how close we were to a nuclear holocaust in the 50's and 60's. Just imagine what might have happened if the fortunes were not as favorable during the Cuban Missle Crisis. All because we were the first to unleash that terror that was weaponized in WWII.

However, I don't think there should be war...all of them are chock full of brutality...I had a great uncle and grandpa that fought in the Second World War, and perhaps that lends to a little bias, but man...

We are quite removed from World War 1 at this point. According to Wikipedia:


Of the 60 million European soldiers who were mobilized from 1914–1918, 8 million were killed, 7 million were permanently disabled, and 15 million were seriously injured. Germany lost 15.1% of its active male population, Austria–Hungary lost 17.1%, and France lost 10.5%. About 750,000 German civilians died from starvation caused by the British blockade during the war. By the end of the war, famine had killed approximately 100,000 people in Lebanon. The best estimates of the death toll from the Russian famine of 1921 run from 5 million to 10 million people. By 1922, there were between 4.5 million and 7 million homeless children in Russia as a result of nearly a decade of devastation from World War I, the Russian Civil War, and the subsequent famine of 1920–1922. Numerous anti-Soviet Russians fled the country after the Revolution; by the 1930s the northern Chinese city of Harbin had 100,000 Russians. Thousands more emigrated to France, England and the United States.

Diseases flourished in the chaotic wartime conditions. In 1914 alone, louse-borne epidemic typhus killed 200,000 in Serbia. From 1918 to 1922, Russia had about 25 million infections and 3 million deaths from epidemic typhus. Whereas before World War I, Russia had about 3.5 million cases of malaria, its people suffered more than 13 million cases in 1923. In addition, a major influenza epidemic spread around the world. Overall, the Spanish flu killed at least 50 million people.

[lefty]

Algeria vs France

We kicked some asses :D

[DeadlyDynasty]

Two WWI films I wanted to mention (for anyone interested) are an old Stanley Kubrick one called "Paths To Glory," with Kirk Douglas and a more recent film called "A Very Long Engagement." The latter is more of a romance-drama, but both films are amazing. They both deal with the issues of desertion and cowardice (and how the men are wrongly convicted of such). I highly recommend them, they are both available to stream on netflix.

[The Gemini Method]

Two WWI films I wanted to mention (for anyone interested) are an old Stanley Kubrick one called "Paths To Glory," with Kirk Douglas and a more recent film called "A Very Long Engagement." The latter is more of a romance-drama, but both films are amazing. They both deal with the issues of desertion and cowardice (and how the men are wrongly convicted of such). I highly recommend them, they are both available to stream on netflix.

I wanted to check out A Very Long Engagement, but I have not gotten around to downloading it or buying it from Amoeba, but that's definitely worth checking out.

To take a modern spin on this discussion...I was conversing with a good friend who served as a Marine in the Iraqi War and he was commenting on how dull time was when he was out there. He was surprised to see all the excitement and 'top news' stories that were coming out in our media after he returned from his 2nd stint and he was just amazed at how much 'action' was portrayed from over there when, for the most part, he would go a week or two before his patrol would have to even threaten to use his weapon and when there were a possibility of seeing combat, he would show up in places like Fallujah and Basra and miss out on the major fighting. He would remark that the movie Jarhead was pretty much the story of his stay in Iraq. On his 3rd tour...he was sent to Afghanistan...that was a different story he would later regale to me.

[lefty]

Two WWI films I wanted to mention (for anyone interested) are an old Stanley Kubrick one called "Paths To Glory," with Kirk Douglas and a more recent film called "A Very Long Engagement." The latter is more of a romance-drama, but both films are amazing. They both deal with the issues of desertion and cowardice (and how the men are wrongly convicted of such). I highly recommend them, they are both available to stream on netflix.
Good call; I watched both of them :tu


Also another good movie is " The Battle of Algiers "

NY Times and Washington Post articles on the movie:

http://www.rialtopictures.com/eyes_xtras/battle_times.html
http://www.rialtopictures.com/eyes_xtras/battle_post.html

[Dex]

http://charmcitycurrent.com/bmorenerdy/files/2010/10/star-wars-poster.jpg

[z0sa]

1) WW2
2) Trojan War
3) American Revolution
4) WW1
5) Vietnam
6) Current Afghanistan/Iraqi wars (don't have my "support", but extremely interesting nonetheless)

[RandomGuy]

A kid was visiting his grandfather while home from college at Christmas, and was spending time on the computer on Spurstalk.

His grandpa shakes his head and says:

"That's no way to spend your time, on that bloody computer all day. Why, when I was your age, I went to the Moulin Rouge in Paris, drank all night, fucked the dancers, pissed on the barman, and left without paying! Now that's how you live a little, son!"

A week later, grandson is back, looking like he was on the loosing end of a game of chicken with a truck, black eyes, broken arm, and shaking his head.

His grampa could hardly recognize him. "sweet baby jesus and orphans, what the hell happened to you?"

The kid says: "I did what you said grandpa, I went to the Moulin Rouge in Paris, drank all night, fucked the dancers, pissed on the barman, and then they beat the living shit out of me!"

"Oh my, that's horrible, kid, who did you go with?"

"Just some friends. Why? Who did you go with?"

"The S.S."

[CuckingFunt]

I went with other. In terms of what I like to study, the first response that came to mind was the 1980s culture wars.

[RoddyBukkake]

clearly wwii ... can't top the holocaust

lol the holocaust was 100% Zionist Jew manufactured bullshit, even the diary of Anne Frank was exposed as a fraud

[baseline bum]

Anyone play Age of Empires 2? They recreated some incredible conquests of Attila the Hun. Great use of technology in this battle:

ueJyvxSnEmY

[The Gemini Method]

War ensemble


Propaganda death ensemble
Burial to be
Corpse rotting through the night
In blood laced misery
Scorched earth the policy
The reason for the siege
The pendulum it shaves the blade
Strafing air blood raid

Infiltration push reserves
Encircle the front lines
Supreme art of strategy
Playing on the minds
Bombard till submission
Take all to their graves
Indication of triumph
The numbers that are dead

Sport the war, war support
The sport is war, total war
Where victory's really massacre
The final swing is not a drill
It's how many people I can kill

Solo 1

Sport the war, war support
The sport is war, total war
When victory's really survival
The final swing is not a drill
It's how many people I can kill

Be dead fiend from above
When darkness falls
Descend onto my sights
Your fallen walls
Spearhead break through the lines
Flank all around
Soldiers of attrition
Forward their ground

Strategy prophetic age
Old in its time
Flowing veins run on through
Deep in the Rhine
Center of the web
All battles scored
What is a war crime
Era forever more
War

Solo 2

Propaganda war ensemble
Burial to be
Bones shining by the night
In blood laced misery
Campaign of elimination
Twisted psychology
When victory is to survive
And death is defeat

Sport the war, war support
The sport is war, total war
When the end is a slaughter
The final swing is not a drill
It's how many people I can kill

[DeadlyDynasty]

I wanted to check out A Very Long Engagement, but I have not gotten around to downloading it or buying it from Amoeba, but that's definitely worth checking out.

To take a modern spin on this discussion...I was conversing with a good friend who served as a Marine in the Iraqi War and he was commenting on how dull time was when he was out there. He was surprised to see all the excitement and 'top news' stories that were coming out in our media after he returned from his 2nd stint and he was just amazed at how much 'action' was portrayed from over there when, for the most part, he would go a week or two before his patrol would have to even threaten to use his weapon and when there were a possibility of seeing combat, he would show up in places like Fallujah and Basra and miss out on the major fighting. He would remark that the movie Jarhead was pretty much the story of his stay in Iraq. On his 3rd tour...he was sent to Afghanistan...that was a different story he would later regale to me.

That's interesting b/c a buddy of mine said the same thing...he's currently finishing his last 6 months in Fort Bragg but did 2 tours in Iraq (I believe, maybe just one), and one in Afghanistan. He said Afghanistan was by far the worst...I found that surprising

[ChumpDumper]

WWI is holding my interest lately because I'm finding there is so much I didn't know about it. So much attention is traditionally given to the trench warfare in Belgium and France, that the "World" aspect of the war is lost. The Military Channel occasionally airs a documentary series called "The First World War" that goes a long way to bringing a much more complete picture of the conflict into view, with attention given to things like the vertical battlefields of the Italian front, the German navy's working to cause chaos in the eastern oceans with no orders from above, the hundreds of thousands of men brought from Europe's colonies to fight in Europe, WWI's own holocaust of the Armenians, etc.

Oh, and Lawrence of Arabia is technically a WWI film, and it does show some of the reasons the middle east is such a clusterfuck today (e.g., Alec Guiness's character goes on to become the king of Iraq, even though few people there even knew who he was).

[DeadlyDynasty]

WWI is holding my interest lately because I'm finding there is so much I didn't know about it. So much attention is traditionally given to the trench warfare in Belgium and France, that the "World" aspect of the war is lost. The Military Channel occasionally airs a documentary series called "The First World War" that goes a long way to bringing a much more complete picture of the conflict into view, with attention given to things like the vertical battlefields of the Italian front, the German navy's working to cause chaos in the eastern oceans with no orders from above, the hundreds of thousands of men brought from Europe's colonies to fight in Europe, WWI's own holocaust of the Armenians, etc.

Oh, and Lawrence of Arabia is technically a WWI film, and it does show some of the reasons the middle east is such a clusterfuck today (e.g., Alec Guiness's character goes on to become the king of Iraq).

Very true, it encompasses much more than we were ever taught in schools. Lawrence of Arabia is of course a great film, but only one of a few that concentrates on the battles in the desert and the balkans against the (then) Ottoman Empire. The Battle of Gallipoli (great movie about it, with a very young Mel Gibson) also deals with the war in the Dardanelles. Concentrates on the ANZAC troops--all the way from Australia and New Zealand--and their impact in the war. World War indeed. Also found it interesting that the architect of the tragically flawed Gallipoli Campaign was none other than Winston Churchill.

Another good WWI area to look into--although a popular one--is the first dogfights with the Red Baron. Zeppelins were used a lot as well.

[SA DAVE]

I'd have to go with the Crusades. So many interesting story lines: from monarchies, alliances, to conquering the Levant, to retreating from the Levant, to the emergence of a stable Muslim alliance in the mid east [Anatolia, Ottomans, Seljuk Turks].

From 1095 to 1291, it must have been a tough time being a land owning religious male- i.e. Knight in the Holy Land.

..how could that be left off of the poll?

[Mixability]

I'm kinda fond of WWII, since it's crazy to think if my Grandfather didn't make it through the hell of Omaha Beach, I wouldn't be typing this right now...

[DeadlyDynasty]

I'd have to go with the Crusades. So many interesting story lines: from monarchies, alliances, to conquering the Levant, to retreating from the Levant, to the emergence of a stable Muslim alliance in the mid east [Anatolia, Ottomans, Seljuk Turks].

From 1095 to 1291, it must have been a tough time being a land owning religious male- i.e. Knight in the Holy Land.

..how could that be left off of the poll?

Forgive me father, for I have sinned.

I would need another 25 poll options to appease everyone...

[hater]

WWII is the most epic of them all.

Good vs. Evil. concentration camps. France shits their pants. Introduction of personal machine guns, hand grenades, high caliber sniper rifles. Fight in land, sea, air and underwater. A great villain in Hitler, swastikas, nazi helmets. It all culminates in an atomic bomb dropped in a civilian area. Krout this, jap that. I can go on and on and on. WWII is the baddest war of them all. it's not even close

[SA DAVE]

Forgive me father, for I have sinned.



For that my child, 25 lashes with wet celery :fight

[The Gemini Method]

When you get in your Mercedes-Benz or BMW...Toyota and Honda...you are supporting the Axis powers@#$@##@@!!~!!

[DeadlyDynasty]

WWII is the most epic of them all.

Good vs. Evil. concentration camps. France shits their pants. Introduction of personal machine guns, hand grenades, high caliber sniper rifles. Fight in land, sea, air and underwater. A great villain in Hitler, swastikas, nazi helmets. It all culminates in an atomic bomb dropped in a civilian area. Krout this, jap that. I can go on and on and on. WWII is the baddest war of them all. it's not even close

WWII definitely had its share of arch-villains and leaders:

FDR
Churchill
Stalin
Hitler
Hirohito
Mussolini
:wow

[The Gemini Method]

Don't forget:

Goebbels
Himmler
Rommel
McArthur
Yamamoto
Montgomery

The sudden rise of the American Nazi Party...and subsequent fall...

[DeadlyDynasty]

Don't forget:

Goebbels
Himmler
Rommel
McArthur
Yamamoto
Montgomery

The sudden rise of the American Nazi Party...and subsequent fall...

Ike
Patton

[Duff McCartney]

WWII definitely had its share of arch-villains and leaders:

FDR
Churchill
Stalin
Hitler
Hirohito
Mussolini
:wow

Now the question is in what category each one belongs to.

[The Gemini Method]

Imagine a pickup basketball between the Allies and the Axis...

[DeadlyDynasty]

FDR would be useless (unless they were playing wheelchair bball) but Stalin and Churchhill would clog up the paint. Mussolini's about as tall as Muggsey Bogues. I bet Hitler's gotta sweet stroke though.

[DeadlyDynasty]

Now the question is in what category each one belongs to.

:lol
Definitely open to interpretation

[The Gemini Method]

FDR would be useless (unless they were playing wheelchair bball) but Stalin and Churchhill would clog up the paint. Mussolini's about as tall as Muggsey Bogues. I bet Hitler's gotta sweet stroke though.

I bet Yamamoto and Patton would be a sweet one-on-one matchup though...

[Chief Brody]

Just watched a History/BBC special on the Falklands War and found it to be interesting. Stupid Argies, smh